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Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.01 15:24:00 - [31] but cant you see gallente are fine? theres nothing wrong with any of their ships man
Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.02.01 15:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Tony SoXai but cant you see gallente are fine? theres nothing wrong with any of their ships man Troll score: 7/10 Reasons? 2 Pages, even if the OP did post a second time to get him to the second page = bare minimum of 4 points. Relatively boring subject matter: Its not a Nerf Drake topic etc, its a Gallente are Fine topic - which everyone knows is not true, therefore it dragged in far more people than it should have. 2 points. *Cheeky-ness of posting again - gave me a lol - which added 1 extra point.
Ticarus Hellbrandt	Posted - 2011.02.01 17:08:00 - [33] Gallente are terrible, ccp even nerfed the eos wiggly chin.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.01 17:38:00 - [34] it's not even a troll though. I almost exclusively fly gallente ships and they are totally fine. hahahahaha 7/10 and it's not even a troll. dasofunny
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.01 19:30:00 - [35] Originally by: Tony SoXai it's not even a troll though. I almost exclusively fly gallente ships and they are totally fine. hahahahaha 7/10 and it's not even a troll. dasofunny yep, a troll.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.02.01 19:35:00 - [36] Quote: Vexor - solo ownage 1600 plate or cap injected duel MAR is winsauce Hi. I'm a nanocane. I'm better in every possible way. Differnt sized hulls... Quote: Ishtar - Next to the Vaga, this is THE BEST solo HAC in the game. even better than a sacrilege. The Ishtar is a terrible* solo HAC because a good solo HAC needs to be able to GTFO when things start to go badly. Guess what happens to your expensive drones when you do that in an Ishtar.* What? Try explaining that to the thousands of ratters that get pwned by a sentry ishtar every week. ? Quote: Myrmidon - ownage Hi. I'm a Dominix. I do everything better than a Myrmidon, as long as you zoom out so you can't see how ugly I am. Differnt hulls, Myrmidon can still tank better dude. Honestly, you can't say a ship sucks just because there's another ship that can do something better. Honestly, answering all these questiont withs 'canes better' proves nothing about the individual ship. Sure, it may have a leg up in alot of things, but some people like flying other ****.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.01 19:54:00 - [37] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Honestly, you can't say a ship sucks just because there's another ship that can do something better. Honestly, answering all these questiont withs 'canes better' proves nothing about the individual ship. Sure, it may have a leg up in alot of things, but some people like flying other ****. the 'cane's still better.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.01 20:10:00 - [38] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/02/2011 20:11:26 Originally by: Grimpak the 'cane's still better. You'd hope that a battlecruiser does better than a cruiser but it still is an utterly pointless argument, the same goes for arguing that a battleship is better than a battlecruiser. Compare ships to their own class. I'm not arguing that the Rupture is thrash because the Proteus is so much better either. There are fitting issues on the Thorax, Deimos, Brutix and Astarte that need to be resolved by either upgrading base fittings (better idea imo) or dropping requirements on the turrets to make those ships perform better in todays pvp, and some bonus adjustments, but that has nothing to do with comparing battlecruisers to cruisers AT ALL. Even going into that line of argument proves you cant be taken serious tbh.
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2011.02.01 21:15:00 - [39] Gallente are WAAAY op with high dps blaster ships. This is largely because armor tanking compliments blaster setups SO WELL! Blasters The damage of blasters is so far and away better than lasers or autocannons that it MORE than makes up for their range advantage. Lasers and AC's are further hampered by the prevalence of NULL ammo. Railguns Railguns get the advantage of having SPECTACULAR dps AND volley damage. All the while benefiting from SPIKE ammo which gives a HUGE range advantage to gallente! Armor Tanking Armor tanking really helps with the philosophy of use for gallente. Combined with a MWD it gives them unmitigated KENYAN speed towards their target, TONS of low slots left for damage mods, as well as HUGE amounts of EHP to give it time to deal it's OP blaster damage with no way for the target to escape the onslaught due to OP webs. This cannot be tolerated any longer.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.01 21:25:00 - [40] Let's get some more brainwashed gallente haters comenting and make it to page 3! lol

Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.01 23:10:00 - [41] Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/02/2011 20:11:26 Originally by: Grimpak the 'cane's still better. You'd hope that a battlecruiser does better than a cruiser but it still is an utterly pointless argument, the same goes for arguing that a battleship is better than a battlecruiser. Compare ships to their own class. I'm not arguing that the Rupture is thrash because the Proteus is so much better either. There are fitting issues on the Thorax, Deimos, Brutix and Astarte that need to be resolved by either upgrading base fittings (better idea imo) or dropping requirements on the turrets to make those ships perform better in todays pvp, and some bonus adjustments, but that has nothing to do with comparing battlecruisers to cruisers AT ALL. Even going into that line of argument proves you cant be taken serious tbh. yeah, but well, it's still better. Originally by: Tony SoXai Let's get some more brainwashed gallente haters comenting and make it to page 3! lol no, you started the trolling, so let's troll even more. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Vallerie Nadine	Posted - 2011.02.02 00:20:00 - [42] Page 3 let's go! loldeimos.
Shab T'shet	Posted - 2011.02.02 00:31:00 - [43] Don't fly cruiser because battlecruiser. don't fly battlecruiser because TITAN!!@#@! dun dun dunnnnn
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.02 00:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/02/2011 20:11:26 Originally by: Grimpak the 'cane's still better. You'd hope that a battlecruiser does better than a cruiser but it still is an utterly pointless argument, the same goes for arguing that a battleship is better than a battlecruiser. Yeah but a Battleship isn't better than a Battlecruiser. You see, a battle cruiser uses the same guns as a Cruiser. So hits all the targets a cruiser can hit. Has much less agility and massively increased sig. Lower sensor strength. A Hurricane, baring the initial cost, after insurance is only marginally more expensive than any T1 cruiser because of the extra money spent on modules. So Merin is right, despite him presenting an odd argument, the truth is he is completely correct. The only reason you'd fly a T1 cruiser over a Hurricane, is because you cannot afford the initial cost of the battlecruiser hull or you don't have the skills to fly the BC.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.02 00:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Hannibal Ord Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/02/2011 20:11:26 Originally by: Grimpak the 'cane's still better. You'd hope that a battlecruiser does better than a cruiser but it still is an utterly pointless argument, the same goes for arguing that a battleship is better than a battlecruiser. Yeah but a Battleship isn't better than a Battlecruiser. You see, a battle cruiser uses the same guns as a Cruiser. So hits all the targets a cruiser can hit. Has much less agility and massively increased sig. Lower sensor strength. A Hurricane, baring the initial cost, after insurance is only marginally more expensive than any T1 cruiser because of the extra money spent on modules. So Merin is right, despite him presenting an odd argument, the truth is he is completely correct. The only reason you'd fly a T1 cruiser over a Hurricane, is because you cannot afford the initial cost of the battlecruiser hull or you don't have the skills to fly the BC. No one is saying he is wrong. The thing is his argument is silly because of what he's comparing. He's not even arguing about gallente any more, he's arguing that the entire cruiser lineup is useless because of battlecruisers. The guy is a joke. Different topic for a different thread.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.02 01:02:00 - [46] Originally by: Hannibal Ord So Merin is right, despite him presenting an odd argument, the truth is he is completely correct. The only reason you'd fly a T1 cruiser over a Hurricane, is because you cannot afford the initial cost of the battlecruiser hull or you don't have the skills to fly the BC. The problem is he is ignoring the game environment. He would be right if we were just fighting npc that dont care about losing their ships, and dont care about fapping to killmails. The cruiser has a much better chance of tackling its targets (more tackles = more potential kills = more potential loot), and is less scary (less people calling for backup before engaging = less potential losses / less people outright hiding = more potential kills = more potential loot). The cruiser also doesnt attract as much attention and has a better chance to gtfo (again, less potential losses). And on top of that, he is advocating a fit that has trouble actually winning fights against the most popular battlecruiser fittings flying around these days. The few solo fights you get.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2011.02.02 01:09:00 - [47] Originally by: Tony SoXai No one is saying he is wrong. The thing is his argument is silly because of what he's comparing. He's not even arguing about gallente any more, he's arguing that the entire cruiser lineup is useless because of battlecruisers. The guy is a joke. Different topic for a different thread. You're right. Cruisers ARE useless. In the past, there were two reasons to fly a T1 cruiser: 1) Low cost. 2) Better speed/agility than a BC/BB. Unfortunately for the T1 cruiser, the nanocane kills both of these reasons. With 100% insurance, the cost difference between a fitted Hurricane and Thorax/Vexor/etc is pretty small. Unless you're extremely tight on money (in which case, you probably need to just fly a T1 frigate anyway), the dps and tank you gain from upgrading to the Hurricane is much greater than the cost difference. Likewise for speed and agility. With a nano fit, the Hurricane has the speed and agility of a cruiser hull (or better), so there's no reason to fly the ship with less tank/dps. Originally by: Hannibal Ord Yeah but a Battleship isn't better than a Battlecruiser. You see, a battle cruiser uses the same guns as a Cruiser. So hits all the targets a cruiser can hit. The exception to this rule is the Dominix. Since neuts have no tracking and both ships will be using the same drones against smaller targets, the "gun size" argument does not apply. Meanwhile, with the popular Myrmidon setup fitting 3x armor rigs on a ship that isn't all that fast to begin with, the Dominix isn't all that much worse in speed and agility either. -----------
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2011.02.02 01:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Omara Otawan The cruiser has a much better chance of tackling its targets (more tackles = more potential kills = more potential loot) Not really. Against your average carebear in a Caracal, the Hurricane locks in 4.5 seconds compared to 3.5 seconds for the Rupture. And if we use the Hurricane's extra mid slot for a sensor booster (not an ideal choice, IMO, but it still beats the Rupture) the Hurricane actually gets the lock faster than the cruiser. I think I'll gladly make that trade for the ability to run down and gank any HACs/recons I happen to find. Quote: and is less scary (less people calling for backup before engaging = less potential losses / less people outright hiding = more potential kills = more potential loot). You realize that most of the people who are aware of your exact ship choice and determined to hide from a Hurricane will probably also hide from ANY ship you fly, right? Quote: The cruiser also doesnt attract as much attention and has a better chance to gtfo (again, less potential losses). Err, lol. Where are these people who are so desperate for a kill that they'll organize a blob just for your Hurricane, but say "whatever, not worth it" when you're in a cruiser? In my experience, there's no such thing as "attracting attention", either someone is going to want to kill you no matter what ship you're in, or they're going to ignore you no matter what ship you're in. Quote: And on top of that, he is advocating a fit that has trouble actually winning fights against the most popular battlecruiser fittings flying around these days. The few solo fights you get. And a T1 cruiser has a better chance against those battlecruisers? -----------
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.02 01:23:00 - [49] P. 3 plz! oh and merin is completely missing the point.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.02 01:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: And on top of that, he is advocating a fit that has trouble actually winning fights against the most popular battlecruiser fittings flying around these days. The few solo fights you get. And a T1 cruiser has a better chance against those battlecruisers? I didnt say that. I did say that the specific fit you advocate has trouble winning against those battlecruisers. It also has considerably more trouble tackling smaller targets it can easily win against. Again, if I want a ship that can run down cruisers and HACs while having good gtfo ability but has trouble standing up to the popular BC choices, I'll take a Vagabond or Cynabal. They do it much much better and I even lose less ISK in the long run.

Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.02.02 02:01:00 - [51] I, too, disagree with Merin.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.02 02:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Dorian Tormak I, too, disagree with Merin. p. srs bssnss. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Clueless Alt	Posted - 2011.02.02 02:44:00 - [53] You all forget about the nanopest, the BS that has the speed/agility of an average BC. Comparing ship in the same class is dull, it's the abilities of the ship that have to be compared.
Plus 1	Posted - 2011.02.02 03:02:00 - [54] "The cane does it better" reminds me of "The Simpsons did it!" episode of South Park.
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2011.02.02 03:07:00 - [55] Railguns.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.02.02 03:53:00 - [56] Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 02/02/2011 03:53:10 Originally by: Clueless Alt You all forget about the nanopest, the BS that has the speed/agility of an average BC. Comparing ship in the same class is dull, it's the abilities of the ship that have to be compared. This is bull****. The only way to figure things out properly is to compare ships in the same class. Furthermore, to the rest of the comments... a nanocane outperforms a thorax at the same role? So you're hurricane fit needs to be: Close range, armor tanked, nanofied, and have 5 medium ecm drones. Let's see that fit now lol. And why is there no mention of the Drake? It's got the same agility of a Cane, will have a better shield tank and deal more damage past 20km. Cane is obsolete people!!2 Drake outclasses every other ship in the game for solo pvp when it comes to: Effectiveness and cost ratio. This means caldari need to be nerfed and every other race needs to be buffed.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.02 04:14:00 - [57] Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 02/02/2011 04:19:29 Originally by: Dorian Tormak Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 02/02/2011 03:53:10 Originally by: Clueless Alt You all forget about the nanopest, the BS that has the speed/agility of an average BC. Comparing ship in the same class is dull, it's the abilities of the ship that have to be compared. This is bull****. The only way to figure things out properly is to compare ships in the same class. Furthermore, to the rest of the comments... a nanocane outperforms a thorax at the same role? So you're hurricane fit needs to be: Close range, armor tanked, nanofied, and have 5 medium ecm drones. Let's see that fit now lol. And why is there no mention of the Drake? It's got the same agility of a Cane, will have a better shield tank and deal more damage past 20km. Cane is obsolete people!!2 Drake outclasses every other ship in the game for solo pvp when it comes to: Effectiveness and cost ratio. This means caldari need to be nerfed and every other race needs to be buffed. You only armour tank a Thorax because you can hardly shield tank it to give it reasonable EHP. So if you nano/Shield a hurricane you get more EHP than an armour Thorax, and the shield passive recharges so overall you have an even larger tank. No it doesn't have 5 medium drones though, so that's true. Drake has the sig of a Battleship and less DPS AND isn't as fast as the cane despite it's bigger tank. So it doesn't really replace the hurricane in replacing T1 cruisers. But that said it's not a bad choice either.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.02 05:45:00 - [58] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 02/02/2011 05:56:29 Originally by: Hannibal Ord You only armour tank a Thorax because you can hardly shield tank it to give it reasonable EHP. Have you actually tried to armor tank a Thorax lately? Even with an ACR and electrons it struggles to fit a 1600 plate, with perfect skills you still need a pg implant. So its either this at 31k EHP, or you drop a damage mod for a RCU to get 34k EHP and fail damage. It also handles like a cow while you actually want to get stuff into blaster range asap. Alright, lets go for the 800 plate then, better agility and we even can think about upsizing some of these guns to ions. Triple trimarked we get to 25k EHP, and slightly better handling. But wait, we can just put a shield buffer on it instead. Not only is it way cheaper now, it actually has very decent speed and the agility so we can hope to get into blaster range quick. Only costs us 5k EHP compared to the 800 plate, and we gain two extra slots for damage, range or even additional speed mods. This is the wise choice if you dont want to get kited to death, it eats those pesky shield Ruptures for breakfast and if you are not out fighting other solo cruisers you actually have a chance to apply your damage and be useful for your gang until you inevitably die in a fire either way.
Eighties Special	Posted - 2011.02.02 05:46:00 - [59] Originally by: Dorian Tormak Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 02/02/2011 03:53:10 Originally by: Clueless Alt You all forget about the nanopest, the BS that has the speed/agility of an average BC. Comparing ship in the same class is dull, it's the abilities of the ship that have to be compared. This is bull****. The only way to figure things out properly is to compare ships in the same class. I'm all for comparisons across hull classes if the ships are performing the same, or very similar, roles. There are considerations you have to take into account, of course, such as price, but these can be factored into the comparison itself. If a 'cane can be set up to have more DPS, speed, EHP, range, and very close cost (after insurance, admittedly), align time, and scan res than a thorax, then its a valid comparison. If there is no area where the thorax is notably outclassing 'cane (well, drones), then they can clearly perform the same role. And in this case, the 'cane is performing it better. Would I also compare the 'cane against something performing a wildly different role, such as the hound, or bustard? No. But against a cruiser often used in a similar role? Why the hell wouldn't I? Also: Page three?
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2011.02.02 05:53:00 - [60]



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