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Eighties Special	Posted - 2011.02.02 18:49:00 - [91] Edited by: Eighties Special on 02/02/2011 18:51:44 Edited by: Eighties Special on 02/02/2011 18:49:29 Originally by: Tony SoXai Edited by: Tony SoXai on 02/02/2011 17:35:05 Comparing cruiser to BC is stupid anyway. Howbout compare Elite cruiser to BC, that's a little more fair. Now, let's see you Cane do this!!! [Ishtar, Beastin.] Damage Control II True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Armor EM Hardener True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x5 Edit: Page 4 any time now~~~~ Edit: Booyah! Page 4! For a not insignificant increase in price, and about 65 Mil (at Jita) in faction items your Ishtar gets, versus that first 'cane posted (I don't see a need to refit one specifically to counter this): About 20 less DPS against Barrage, or about 120 less vs faction. And can't apply 20% of the damage it does do outside of neut/scram/web range(light blasters)--the 'cane should be able to kite you, if he's decent. With both overheating guns you're doing even worse. Slower speed, by about 210 m/s. .7 seconds slower align time. A less reliable cap. Less neutering. (Hehe.) 50% more EHP. Moar dronez! Nice "F-you" webs. Dual props. Slight edge in Scan resolution. The EHP is your real edge, here. The Ishtar gets 65k to the 'cane's 43k. Of course, if you get hit by neuts, which indeed never happens, you lose that edge rather quickly dropping to 47k. If the Hurricane, for the sake of arguement, is also neutered (hehe) dry, it drops to 37k. If this were a contest between the two, the 'cane has a better cap economy going coupled with much stronger neuters (hehe), which gives it an edge. So some definite advantages to be sure! But are you covering the bases the 'cane covers, while also out-performing it, in the same way I was trying to demonstrate with Throax vs 'cane? No. You're not bringing the speed, DPS, or the Neutering (hehe) power. You align slower. If this were a direct contest between the two, you'd have to lock down the Hurricane before Ogres could catch it, so if he's kiting you, say at 17km, you're switching to Hammerheads, a loss of almost 250 DPS. You're now doing 238 DPS to the 'Cane's 467, adjusted for range, (520 w/ heat). You, running only your tank and MWD, cap out in under two minutes. The Hurricane has over 4 minutes. So, if you catch him at point blank, you're likely going to win. If he kites you, he's likely going to win. So... yeah. It's not exactly straigh out-performing the Hurricane... Ok, I'm off to class. I have to remind myself there are things beside EFT warrioring, sometimes.
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2011.02.02 18:55:00 - [92] Nerf Deimos.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.02 19:03:00 - [93] Usually if i fight a Cane I simply follow these steps: 1. Overheat mwd 2. Burn straight toward the smeghead 3. turn on my stuff and neut his ass 4. watch him drain my cap, then begin turning off some mods 5. watch him burn to 20km and I switch to medium drones 6. either overheat my exp. hardner or start managing my drones, depending on if hes shooting me or the drones 7. collect the loot. alternatively: speed tank him if he's got no neuts.
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.02.02 19:44:00 - [94] Quote: Howbout go **** yourself. Thus trolling /endthread
Swynet	Posted - 2011.02.02 19:46:00 - [95] Originally by: TV Evangelist Gallente are WAAAY op with high dps blaster ships. This is largely because armor tanking compliments blaster setups SO WELL! Blasters The damage of blasters is so far and away better than lasers or autocannons that it MORE than makes up for their range advantage. Lasers and AC's are further hampered by the prevalence of NULL ammo. Railguns Railguns get the advantage of having SPECTACULAR dps AND volley damage. All the while benefiting from SPIKE ammo which gives a HUGE range advantage to gallente! Armor Tanking Armor tanking really helps with the philosophy of use for gallente. Combined with a MWD it gives them unmitigated KENYAN speed towards their target, TONS of low slots left for damage mods, as well as HUGE amounts of EHP to give it time to deal it's OP blaster damage with no way for the target to escape the onslaught due to OP webs. This cannot be tolerated any longer. This is wy you guys are incredebly stupid. You are trying to convince yourself and not admit the evidence. Let me give you a good advice ubber player, get in your myrmidon and shield tank with and put a full rack of autos T2 and them come here say again that rails and armors ships are fine. Getin a mega and full rack it with T2's arty's, shield buffer, then go out snipe some stuff. You see the difference? You don't? Men your helpless.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Heretic Army	Posted - 2011.02.02 19:47:00 - [96] Haha, this thread is win OP is mostly right really, some things I dont think hold up like rail thorax or rail deimos, but over all he got a point. Interesting how people bash his kill stats when they dont have any noticeable record to show either
space bear Gallente Farbotz	Posted - 2011.02.02 20:30:00 - [97] Originally by: Swynet Originally by: TV Evangelist Gallente are WAAAY op with high dps blaster ships. This is largely because armor tanking compliments blaster setups SO WELL! Blasters The damage of blasters is so far and away better than lasers or autocannons that it MORE than makes up for their range advantage. Lasers and AC's are further hampered by the prevalence of NULL ammo. Railguns Railguns get the advantage of having SPECTACULAR dps AND volley damage. All the while benefiting from SPIKE ammo which gives a HUGE range advantage to gallente! Armor Tanking Armor tanking really helps with the philosophy of use for gallente. Combined with a MWD it gives them unmitigated KENYAN speed towards their target, TONS of low slots left for damage mods, as well as HUGE amounts of EHP to give it time to deal it's OP blaster damage with no way for the target to escape the onslaught due to OP webs. This cannot be tolerated any longer. This is wy you guys are incredebly stupid. You are trying to convince yourself and not admit the evidence. Let me give you a good advice ubber player, get in your myrmidon and shield tank with and put a full rack of autos T2 and them come here say again that rails and armors ships are fine. Getin a mega and full rack it with T2's arty's, shield buffer, then go out snipe some stuff. You see the difference? You don't? Men your helpless. hmmm... he was sarcastic, me thinks
Rashmika Clavain Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.02 20:41:00 - [98] Originally by: Ticarus Hellbrandt Gallente are terrible, ccp even nerfed the eos wiggly chin. I actually trained to an Eos because of its wiggly chin
Linda Flamewalker	Posted - 2011.02.02 21:12:00 - [99] Originally by: Tony SoXai Usually if i fight a Cane I simply follow these steps: 1. Overheat mwd 2. Burn straight toward the smeghead 3. turn on my stuff and neut his ass 4. watch him drain my cap, then begin turning off some mods 5. watch him burn to 20km and I switch to medium drones 6. either overheat my exp. hardner or start managing my drones, depending on if hes shooting me or the drones 7. collect the loot. alternatively: speed tank him if he's got no neuts. 8. wake up after said wetdream as you sure as heck havent got anything to back all of that up with.. in other words: link kill or shut up.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.02 21:32:00 - [100] Only wimps have wetdreams.

Linda Flamewalker	Posted - 2011.02.02 21:42:00 - [101] Originally by: Tony SoXai Only wimps have wetdreams. So.. you cant back up your smacktalk.. gotcha.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.02.02 21:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Tony SoXai Originally by: Altaica Amur Quote: LOL at the people linking my killboard to try and make some idiotic point! The point of this thread isn't an argument about the usability of cruisers VS. battlecruisers people, PLEASE try and wrap your heads around that. It has nothing to do with cruisers by themselves. The point is, Gallente are damn fine pvp boats, whether we're talking frigs, cruisers, or the myrmidon. Stop trolling and/or post with your main. Howbout go ** yourself. trolling you is more productive and satisfying. --- Quote:** The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.02 22:08:00 - [103] Originally by: Linda Flamewalker Originally by: Tony SoXai Only wimps have wetdreams. So.. you cant back up your smacktalk.. gotcha. lol, people like you man. You know you're wrong, alright, you're just in a corner and you won't admit that Gallente are great for pvp and so all the time guys like you resort to, "prove it! Your posting char has no experience so you have no experience so that means you're wrong!!!!" I don't care about backing up my post because anyone worth talking to will know that I am right just from reading it. Page 5? One can hope.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Hannibals Commando's	Posted - 2011.02.03 00:30:00 - [104] I've changed my mind now. The Thorax is clearly better than the Hurricane.
Eighties Special	Posted - 2011.02.03 00:30:00 - [105] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Interesting how people bash his kill stats when they dont have any noticeable record to show either I only bring it up because he is presenting his own pvp exploits as the key premise of his argument, without offering any way to check the veracity of his claims. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and assumed the character he's posting with is an alt who cannot fly Gallente or Min frigates (which his losses infer). You're welcome to try and discredit the basis of my argument--slack-jawed EFT warrioring--though my evidence is out in the open; I've posted fits which you can plug into your own calculations in order to verify or falsify my claims.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.03 01:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Eighties Special ::Edit:: So, yeah. I think that a Hurricane can perform an almost identical role as the standard Thorax, the same if not better in most respects, even in those that seem counter-intuitive (speed, agility), using an almost identical SP investment, and for a (relatively) similar cost. Thus I still think it is valid to compare the two ships directly. Which, I think, where our original conflict arose. I think you are missing the point. Battlecruisers you can fit to outperform every t1 brawler cruiser (most of the t1 cruisers actually apart from those with specific bonuses to a narrow role) if you aim for it are these: Prophecy, Harbinger Ferox, Drake Brutix, Myrmidon Cyclone, Hurricane Which is obviously all the t1 battlecruiser hulls (I dont post fits as it wont fit in the character limit and everyone with EFT can figure it out themselves). The question is, why would you fly a gimp battlecruiser that cannot take on other hulls in its own class and is only useful to gank smaller hulls it has more trouble actually tackling than the cruiser? And invest more ISK at the same time? And be easier to tackle yourself? The role of the battlecruiser is to bring extra dps and standing power to the battle where a cruiser hull wouldnt stand up. Its role is not to be gimped into a makeshift cruiser with bloated signature. Originally by: Eighties Special ::EditEdit:: Oh, and calling me a liar, Omara? A **** move, and one I didn't appreciate, especially when I wasn't incorrect. It wasnt directed at you, but at the base assumptions concerning isk and performance. Which is infact incorrect.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.03 03:47:00 - [107] If we make it to page 5 before tomorrow this will have been a success :P (if I was trollin that is) Hey man gallente are pvp gods!
Raigir Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.03 07:22:00 - [108] http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Tony+SoXai#kills We're done here, move along. waves hands This is not the troll your are looking for....
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.03 08:37:00 - [109] Is now a good time to bring up my idea for a nano shield buffer pulse apoc?
Korg Leaf Time Bandits.	Posted - 2011.02.03 09:04:00 - [110] Originally by: Raigir http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Tony+SoXai#kills We're done here, move along. waves hands This is not the troll your are looking for.... Although I don't necessarily agree with all that has been said in this thread, quoting battle clinic for what is more than likely this guys alt not his main is hardly constructive or a means of disproving his arguments. -------------------------------------------- Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!

The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.03 11:53:00 - [111] Originally by: baltec1 Use ECM drones? Assuming you are not the only one that use them this days? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Skex Relbore Gallente Skexcorp	Posted - 2011.02.03 15:26:00 - [112] Originally by: Korg Leaf Originally by: Raigir http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Tony+SoXai#kills We're done here, move along. waves hands This is not the troll your are looking for.... Although I don't necessarily agree with all that has been said in this thread, quoting battle clinic for what is more than likely this guys alt not his main is hardly constructive or a means of disproving his arguments. It comes down to a question of credibility. When it comes to PVP the only objective somewhat reliable way to measure competency and experience is someone's killboard. Posting with an alt particularly when one is is pushing an idea that runs against the grain of common experience brings up a huge question of credibility. My experience in these threads is that the vast majority of those claiming that Gallente are fine, either have little or no killboard history to back up their claims or their killboards show them as not actually flying much in the way of Gallente hulls. For example Lilith Velkor who has very impressive killboard, but if you actually look at the ships she's flown for the last 3 months the only hybrid user on the list is the Navy Comet which is one of the few examples of a blaster boat done right (lots of dps good slot layout as well as fast and rugged enough to get into effective range in addition to a generous drone bay) I don't think anyone has claimed that a highly skilled pilot can't make Gal hulls work nor that they are completely useless (they excel at docking games) But the quarterly economic report shows in very concrete objective terms at just how much of a disadvantage Gal hulls really are. With the notable exception of the Nyx Gallente are poorly represented in the actual used statistics. One can talk all you want about skills and FOTM but the reality is that FOTM becomes FOTM for a reason. The corollary is that the under-representation of other ships is an indication of their short comings. The problems that Gallente face are manifold, Their lack of speed particularly considering that they are supposed to be armor tankers means that they are generally unable to close range to apply dps compared to their competition. Amarr faces a speed issue as well but they have enough range that it simply isn't a problem for them in the same way it is for Gallente. A Minmatar or Caldari ship can't kite around inside disruptor range with impunity from damage against them as they can with a Gallente ship. Arguments claiming that Gal benefit from gang mates fail as well thanks to the fact that their generally inferior engagement envelope means that they are constantly motoring around trying to get in range of a hostile ship meanwhile the laser, missile and projectile ships are laying down a lesser but constant stream of dps. Then even if one does manage to get into range to apply that wonderful theoretical dps the poor tracking on blasters means that you won't be getting anywhere close to that level of facemelt when actually at optimal without the use of webs. Now the argument of "use webs" runs smack into another design flaw. For an active tanked ship that uses cap dependent weapons you need 3 slots minimum for Prop mod, Point and a cap booster to run all that stuff. That means you really need a minimum of 4 mid slots for a decent blaster ship to get all that plus a web. At this point you run into the problem that with 4 mids its probably better to shield tank anyway to gain better speed/agility as well as to free up low slots for tracking and damage mods (which is what we end up doing on the Brutix and Hype most the time) Blasters should have the best tracking period. If you can get into range you should be able to hit equal sized targets without a web. As it stand today Gallente (and to an lesser extent Caldari) hulls are at an extreme disadvantage do mainly to the flaws in their weapon systems.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.03 15:50:00 - [113] Sounds about right to me, Skex. Although you're the first one I've heard saying that people who think Gal are fine don't have killboard to back up their talk; I've only heard it the other way around, with people who say Gal are bad that have no good killboard. So we agree hybrids need the best tracking period? I wouldn't mind the following: More blaster tracking More blaster damage Change some Gal bonuses Gal are fine, but I think this would make everything more balanced and maybe make Gal a little easier to use?
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2011.02.03 21:05:00 - [114] Nerf Damps.
Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.02.03 21:18:00 - [115] I see my 7/10 Troll score was appropriate as we are about to reach 5 pages. Not changing the score though, as at this point you are like a 5 year old still sucking the teat of his mother (rough and raw) to squeak it over the 5 page mark [trying to milk it for all its worth as it were] and yes, Gallente are the sux. Still.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.03 22:09:00 - [116] It's not a goddamn troll. That's all I see on every post, "oh he's a troll" shutup not everyones a troll. Goddamn. It's honestly so dumb; just go on every post and just be like "yep hes trollin 5/10 for getting a reply." some people are trying to actually talk about things and share their knowledge.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.03 22:53:00 - [117] Edited by: The Djego on 03/02/2011 22:56:47 Originally by: Tony SoXai It's not a goddamn troll. d/d? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Chi Quan Bibkor Enterprises	Posted - 2011.02.03 23:13:00 - [118] Edited by: Chi Quan on 03/02/2011 23:13:44 p 5 for the hell of it? Edit: Dang... ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2011.02.04 04:02:00 - [119] LOL at the ccp d00ds ninja editing the title of this post so that instead of "gaylente" it reads "gallente". Is that what the world has come to?
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2011.02.04 08:04:00 - [120]



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