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Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.02.04 03:06:00 -
[91]
One thing about eve seems to be all the terrible posters about; trolls and general trash spewing onto the forums whatever random thoughts come out of their head (and usually with terrible punctuation too). When I see this it makes me sort of have less faith in mankind in general. Sure there are dumb threads I feel like starting, but I don't because I think before I click "new topic" and I know it would be a dumb thread. Is it not more important to be silent and feel like a fool rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt? Any players feel like this sometimes reading the forums?
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Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Asheyna
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Posted - 2011.02.04 03:53:00 -
[92]
I just wanna know what would happen to industry if we "evil types" stopped killing folks?
Fact: War drives economy RL and in game.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.04 03:59:00 -
[93]
War certainly runs the game economy, because all we can produce are weapons and weapon platforms. But in RL plenty of countries get by fine without it.
Sincerely,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Asheyna
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:39:00 -
[94]
 Originally by: Professor Tarantula
But in RL plenty of countries get by fine without it.
They do, but the military/army is the driving force behind most of the first world countries in the world.
Mostly though I was talking about EVE. As much as ppl wanna QQ over us evil types, the economy would collapse without us.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:45:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 04/02/2011 04:47:16
I personally would have used the term opportunistic and/or individualistic as apposed to evil. Evil comes from a moral place that may not be accepted by all parties involved. The actions you speak of are typically based in nature not philosophy.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:47:00 -
[96]
Don`t want to get too far off topic, but the US is pretty unique for giving 700 billion to corporations in the military industrial complex each year.
The UK just spends 50 billion, and Canada a mere 14.
Sincerely,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:50:00 -
[97]
Edited by: AnonyTerrorNinja on 04/02/2011 04:50:13
That's it.
I'm tired of being called nasty names and an 'evil bastard' for cleaning up wrecks of their salvage! I spent all those years studying maritime law, and for what!? Repeatedly being told something about the grass of my mother?
If anyone wants my stuff, I'll be jettisoning it piece by piece outside Jita 4-4 on Sunday.
I hope you're happy op. It's people like you that make honest, hard-working players like me quit the game.*
*notrly.
---
Sig removed till it's relevant again. |
Michwich
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:54:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Asheyna
I just wanna know what would happen to industry if we "evil types" stopped killing folks?
Fact: War drives economy RL and in game.
What would happen if evil types stopped killing folks? Well, theyd live. Probably buy some new clothes... pro nails, a new weave, goto the photographer and get a new portrait done... of course your clothes are going to fade and your nails are gonna to chip so youre gonna have to redo them every once in a while, no one has to kill you for that to happen. Industry would be fine without PVP.
But seriousely now, dont compare evil in this game to evil in real life. Just because war drives economy in RL doesnt mean it has too. Plenty of more ways to get rich and have fun than to go slaughtering people and just keeping the cycle of idiocy going. Seriously common... the bar is being raised, bullcrap is being exposed.
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Asheyna
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:57:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Michwich
Just because war drives economy in RL doesnt mean it has too. Plenty of more ways to get rich and have fun than to go slaughtering people and just keeping the cycle of idiocy going. Seriously common... the bar is being raised, bullcrap is being exposed.
My comment was more directed at in game than RL, so keeping it on topic I'd really like an actual answer as to what all the industrial carebears would do if ppl stopped blowing up ships?
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.04 05:11:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
I personally would have used the term opportunistic and/or individualistic as apposed to evil. Evil comes from a moral place that may not be accepted by all parties involved. The actions you speak of are typically based in nature not philosophy.
I don't think he's talking about opportunistic people.
Evil isn't just being selfish or even killing. That's pretty much expected of any living thing in the proper circumstances. I personally use the word evil to mean people who cause psychological harm to others just for fun, and gain nothing from it except some kind of sadistic gratification.
Sincerely,
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Corporate Thief
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.04 05:14:00 -
[101]
Every action of the Organization I belong to (and myself) is dedicated towards the advancement of a certain set of goals. I'm not evil, I'm simply Nationalistic 
---
Originally by: CCP Zulu
[...then] we will simply become the dinosaurs of the industry. And everyone knows what happens to dinosaurs. God makes them disappear. Through MAGIC.
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Serena Liena McNemsie
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Posted - 2011.02.04 06:31:00 -
[102]
I didn't read all the posts due to too much nonsense and trolling. One thing however, stood out to me. You can't have the good without the evil. That's actually rubbish. It is the same thing as saying I can't have dough on my bank account without having debt there. I can't have sunshine without the night. While the benefit of such a situation is at question, yeah, actually I could have all this without the other.
This reasoning has been the easiest way of judging oneselfs bad action and silencing conscience. Also, it is of the same category as the reasoning that if I am not doing it, someone else will. Well that is a self fulfilling prophecy as long as people believe that.
Additionally, there is a main difference between the game and real world. The game was designed to incorporate good and bad. Whether that is true or not for the real world has yet to be determined. As far as I can see there is a huge bill coming at what humans have done the last few thousand years ...
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Nora Skuld
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Posted - 2011.02.04 08:43:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Nora Skuld on 04/02/2011 08:45:12
Originally by: Boby46
I have no problem with the carebears. But they need to accept that "evil" people are going to scam, gank, and ransom you.
I have to be nice in real life, why should I be nice in internet spaceships?
Oh you have to be nice? Interesting. So without law enforcement and peer pressure you would gladly steal, cheat, lie, abuse and kill to get whatever you want?
You might reconsider your phrasing or get help from a mental health specialist.
Why should you be nice in internet spaceships? Because it would make a better community, maybe? It's the general benefit of being nice towards each others, you know. Of course, if you don't care about the well being of the community you will hardly appreciate those benefits.
A sane community should hunt down, isolate, reeducate or exile those people. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to do so in this game so the only thing we can do is pass judgment and label each others.
Carebears don't need to accept anything. Piwates and griefers whine, petition and militate continuously to make the game more centered around their "interests". Carebears can and should do the same.
Originally by: Corporate Thief
I'm not evil, I'm simply Nationalistic
Nice try, but nationalism is simply a specific branch of evil.
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Burial Day
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Posted - 2011.02.04 09:14:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Burial Day on 04/02/2011 09:15:46
Opportunism is unjustifiable once you get past survival.
If you want to be evil, fine - no one's going to really stop you unless you start breaking laws, but please, accept who you are. Accept your drives, accept what your actions suggest about your character (hint: they are the same thing). Stop justifying, stop thinking that you are basically a good person, if you consistently act contrary to that. |
Zyress
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Posted - 2011.02.04 14:45:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Darius Falc
Originally by: Zyress
Edited by: Zyress on 03/02/2011 21:57:52
In the end your personal ethics are just that personal and unique to yourself. I myself do not go can flipping, ninja salvaging, suicide ganking, or seek to force pvp on any unwilling victims. Neither do I perpetrate marketing or contract scams, but thats just me. Those activities are just part of the game and the eve universe being a microcosm of the universe at large it takes all types and many of them are slime, beware of all others, its actually one of the more attractive parts in the game and I get a lot of satisfaction of occasionally turning the tables on the slime who frankly usually aren't ready for any flak from their victims.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. You're fuzzying people's personal ethics in RL and the "part" they play in game. They are not *at all* the same thing. Does the actor that "plays" Ming the Merciless strangle puppies in his spare time? Does Anthony Hopkins try and eat his postman's liver at the slightest provocation? What about the actor that plays Freddie from "Nightmare on Elmstreet", is his road strewn with the torn and mutilated bodies of his next door neighbours? You choose to be a paladin of the world of EvE....good for you! I salute your choice and although I think it's misbegotten I will fight to the death for your right to make that choice. My choice of *character* is different and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.
Also your assumption that pirates aren't ready for any flak from their victims is incorrect; we rarely get any "flak" but when we do get it we cherish it. Most of us would far rather have a good fight that an easy gank. Part of the reason I'm a pirate is the PvP rush I get from a good fight. Do I get that from ganking a hauler? Of course not...but I do make a profit with the hauler  .
You make a good point about the actors not necesarily being like ppl they portray, however they are cast in their roles and you choose your's. Eve is a community and the role you choose in that community says something about your character whether you are a cop, a congressman, or a preacher in real life. None of us follow all our true impulses in r/l there are consequences here. In game though you choose and you and I choose differently, thats a reflection of our characters.
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Mista Chafe
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Posted - 2011.02.04 15:06:00 -
[106]
hahahahaha!!
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Krisis Akratos
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Posted - 2011.02.04 15:48:00 -
[107]
Good... good.  *evil grin*
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Darius Falc
Gallente
Dark Harlequins
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Posted - 2011.02.04 16:48:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Zyress
Originally by: Darius Falc
Originally by: Zyress
Edited by: Zyress on 03/02/2011 21:57:52
In the end your personal ethics are just that personal and unique to yourself. I myself do not go can flipping, ninja salvaging, suicide ganking, or seek to force pvp on any unwilling victims. Neither do I perpetrate marketing or contract scams, but thats just me. Those activities are just part of the game and the eve universe being a microcosm of the universe at large it takes all types and many of them are slime, beware of all others, its actually one of the more attractive parts in the game and I get a lot of satisfaction of occasionally turning the tables on the slime who frankly usually aren't ready for any flak from their victims.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. You're fuzzying people's personal ethics in RL and the "part" they play in game. They are not *at all* the same thing. Does the actor that "plays" Ming the Merciless strangle puppies in his spare time? Does Anthony Hopkins try and eat his postman's liver at the slightest provocation? What about the actor that plays Freddie from "Nightmare on Elmstreet", is his road strewn with the torn and mutilated bodies of his next door neighbours? You choose to be a paladin of the world of EvE....good for you! I salute your choice and although I think it's misbegotten I will fight to the death for your right to make that choice. My choice of *character* is different and I'd appreciate the same courtesy.
Also your assumption that pirates aren't ready for any flak from their victims is incorrect; we rarely get any "flak" but when we do get it we cherish it. Most of us would far rather have a good fight that an easy gank. Part of the reason I'm a pirate is the PvP rush I get from a good fight. Do I get that from ganking a hauler? Of course not...but I do make a profit with the hauler .
You make a good point about the actors not necesarily being like ppl they portray, however they are cast in their roles and you choose your's. Eve is a community and the role you choose in that community says something about your character whether you are a cop, a congressman, or a preacher in real life. None of us follow all our true impulses in r/l there are consequences here. In game though you choose and you and I choose differently, thats a reflection of our characters.
Nope...they *choose* the roles they play. The guy that played Darth Vader *chose* whether or not he wanted to play that role...it wasn't foisted upon him without his consent. You are right that what we do in here reflects our character to some degree in real life....but precisely *how* does it do that?
I *play* a pirate in EvE...is the reflection on my RL character that I have homicidal or sociopathic tendencies that I bury very deeply so that no one will ever know (I occasionally get a mad impulse to want to pour custard in politicians trousers...does that count as sociopathic?)! Or is it that I don't take life too seriously and take this game even less seriously....it's a virtual world with virtual rules. It needs it's bad guys to make it the game it is. I choose to be a bad guy in game because PvP is fun and for the most part bad guys generate interesting game play and dynamics. It's a fun experiment, I like the character of a scoundrel in game, but to suggest that an evil deed in a game somehow indicates an evil character in real life is not only misleading, it's insulting.
***********************************************
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Asheyna
Minmatar
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.02.04 17:43:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Burial Day
Edited by: Burial Day on 04/02/2011 09:15:46... but please, accept who you are. Accept your drives, accept what your actions suggest about your character (hint: they are the same thing). Stop justifying, stop thinking that you are basically a good person, if you consistently act contrary to that.
So because I play a pirate and sometimes griefer in a video game I must be evil RL? Am I reading you right?
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Asheyna
Minmatar
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.02.04 17:50:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Darius Falc
I choose to be a bad guy in game because PvP is fun and for the most part bad guys generate interesting game play and dynamics. It's a fun experiment, I like the character of a scoundrel in game, but to suggest that an evil deed in a game somehow indicates an evil character in real life is not only misleading, it's insulting.
^^ This
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The Crushah
Gallente
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.02.04 18:06:00 -
[111]
There is no good or evil, only shades of gray.
I have seen countless threads like this one and I have been on both sides in the game, ive been griefed and I have done a lot of griefing and I have one conclusion:
The people who complain the loudest about griefing have way too much invested in this game.
Most of the time when you scam, ransom, kill, etc someone in this game you get one of two responses.
1) "Ha Ha, good one bro, I gotta go now and go get drunk with my mates at the pub. later!"
2) "OMG, THAT WAS 4 YEARS OF MY LIFE. YOU EVIL SOB. IM GONNA HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOUR DOG"
In my conclusion, those that responded with a #2 like response are too emotionally attached to a video game. Unplug man and go do something else.
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Darius Falc
Gallente
Dark Harlequins
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Posted - 2011.02.04 18:07:00 -
[112]
^^What he said
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Lycantim Audeles
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Posted - 2011.02.04 18:30:00 -
[113]
Originally by: The Crushah
There is no good or evil, only shades of gray.
I have seen countless threads like this one and I have been on both sides in the game, ive been griefed and I have done a lot of griefing and I have one conclusion:
The people who complain the loudest about griefing have way too much invested in this game.
Most of the time when you scam, ransom, kill, etc someone in this game you get one of two responses.
1) "Ha Ha, good one bro, I gotta go now and go get drunk with my mates at the pub. later!"
2) "OMG, THAT WAS 4 YEARS OF MY LIFE. YOU EVIL SOB. IM GONNA HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOUR DOG"
In my conclusion, those that responded with a #2 like response are too emotionally attached to a video game. Unplug man and go do something else.
This guy speaks the truth...
Comparing people to how they act in game and that reflecting in RL is just narrow-minded.
Also, @The Crushah: Are you my twin? xD
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Gustav Knuttsen
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Posted - 2011.02.04 18:33:00 -
[114]
PPL are trashes in most. 35% of all money on the planet is in the wallets of 0.5% whole population. It shows something :)
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Asheyna
Minmatar
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.02.04 18:56:00 -
[115]
Originally by: The Crushah
There is no good or evil, only shades of gray.
I have seen countless threads like this one and I have been on both sides in the game, ive been griefed and I have done a lot of griefing and I have one conclusion:
The people who complain the loudest about griefing have way too much invested in this game.
Most of the time when you scam, ransom, kill, etc someone in this game you get one of two responses.
1) "Ha Ha, good one bro, I gotta go now and go get drunk with my mates at the pub. later!"
2) "OMG, THAT WAS 4 YEARS OF MY LIFE. YOU EVIL SOB. IM GONNA HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOUR DOG"
In my conclusion, those that responded with a #2 like response are too emotionally attached to a video game. Unplug man and go do something else.
Couldn't agree more. The #2's of EVE are what keep me laughing ;)
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Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
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Posted - 2011.02.04 19:07:00 -
[116]
hi cat here
i am staunchly against evil and especially pirates but this has presented me with a connundrum lol
see in the time i havent been flying my trusty defencemobile around i have been keeping in touch with some folks, and it turns out some pirates can actually be jolly nice when they want to be 
what a pickle.
i still dont much care for the piratical acts that are the scourge of this galaxy tho lol
x
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Zyress
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Posted - 2011.02.04 19:37:00 -
[117]
You make a good point about the actors not necesarily being like ppl they portray, however they are cast in their roles and you choose your's. Eve is a community and the role you choose in that community says something about your character whether you are a cop, a congressman, or a preacher in real life. None of us follow all our true impulses in r/l there are consequences here. In game though you choose and you and I choose differently, thats a reflection of our characters.
Nope...they *choose* the roles they play. The guy that played Darth Vader *chose* whether or not he wanted to play that role...it wasn't foisted upon him without his consent. You are right that what we do in here reflects our character to some degree in real life....but precisely *how* does it do that?
I *play* a pirate in EvE...is the reflection on my RL character that I have homicidal or sociopathic tendencies that I bury very deeply so that no one will ever know (I occasionally get a mad impulse to want to pour custard in politicians trousers...does that count as sociopathic?)! Or is it that I don't take life too seriously and take this game even less seriously....it's a virtual world with virtual rules. It needs it's bad guys to make it the game it is. I choose to be a bad guy in game because PvP is fun and for the most part bad guys generate interesting game play and dynamics. It's a fun experiment, I like the character of a scoundrel in game, but to suggest that an evil deed in a game somehow indicates an evil character in real life is not only misleading, it's insulting.
Are you sure James Earl Jones who played Darth Vader wouldn't have rather been Han Solo or Luke Skywalker? Maybe Lando? I really don't think he cared too much as it was just a job for him, but that doesn't mean the darkside of the force appealed to him. You on the otherhand do choose the dark side because it does appeal to you. Yes it does lead to a lot of PvP which is fun, but I live in NPC 0.0 space and I bet I get just as many Pvp opportunities as you without forcing it on unwilling victims. I don't begrudge you your choice, honor and integrity isn't for everyone, compassion for ones fellow gamer isn't a prerequisite, and as I said, it takes all kinds to make a universe.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.02.04 19:50:00 -
[118]
You're not really compairing actors now to our ingame griefers are you?
People who play villains in a movie often manage to incorporate some humanity in their portrait. Gankers just express glee for someone elses misfortunes since they themselves doesn't matter in the real world, there's a subtle difference there.
Delenda est achura. |
Darius Falc
Gallente
Dark Harlequins
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Posted - 2011.02.04 19:55:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Zyress
You make a good point about the actors not necesarily being like ppl they portray, however they are cast in their roles and you choose your's. Eve is a community and the role you choose in that community says something about your character whether you are a cop, a congressman, or a preacher in real life. None of us follow all our true impulses in r/l there are consequences here. In game though you choose and you and I choose differently, thats a reflection of our characters.
Nope...they *choose* the roles they play. The guy that played Darth Vader *chose* whether or not he wanted to play that role...it wasn't foisted upon him without his consent. You are right that what we do in here reflects our character to some degree in real life....but precisely *how* does it do that?
I *play* a pirate in EvE...is the reflection on my RL character that I have homicidal or sociopathic tendencies that I bury very deeply so that no one will ever know (I occasionally get a mad impulse to want to pour custard in politicians trousers...does that count as sociopathic?)! Or is it that I don't take life too seriously and take this game even less seriously....it's a virtual world with virtual rules. It needs it's bad guys to make it the game it is. I choose to be a bad guy in game because PvP is fun and for the most part bad guys generate interesting game play and dynamics. It's a fun experiment, I like the character of a scoundrel in game, but to suggest that an evil deed in a game somehow indicates an evil character in real life is not only misleading, it's insulting.
Are you sure James Earl Jones who played Darth Vader wouldn't have rather been Han Solo or Luke Skywalker? Maybe Lando? I really don't think he cared too much as it was just a job for him, but that doesn't mean the darkside of the force appealed to him. You on the otherhand do choose the dark side because it does appeal to you. Yes it does lead to a lot of PvP which is fun, but I live in NPC 0.0 space and I bet I get just as many Pvp opportunities as you without forcing it on unwilling victims. I don't begrudge you your choice, honor and integrity isn't for everyone, compassion for ones fellow gamer isn't a prerequisite, and as I said, it takes all kinds to make a universe.
Frankly I have no idea what his preference might have been. He may have loved the challenge of playing an evil character simply because it was so at odds with his real life character. I think trying to contrast my choice against his is both presumptuous and misguided as neither of us has the slightest idea of what his motivation was for playing the character.
The problem here is that you still assume that EvE in some way equates to real life, it doesn't. I play lotro occasionally where I have two maxed out characters both of whom are good through and through and both of whom I take to play PvP in the Ettenmoors. In this game I've chosen to play entirely good characters (I could play evil monsters), as I have in other games. Does that now make me a fine upstanding member of the community in real life? Of course it doesn't. Any character you play presents you with challenges whether the character is inherently good or evil. This doesn't make the *player* either of these things. I don't assume that because you have honour and integrity in game that you possess these self-same qualities in real life. It's easy to play the square jawed champion of justice in a game and be nothing like that in real life.
It deeply concerns me that people seem to find it so difficult to separate a game from reality. Like an earlier poster pointed out, and I mean no disrespect; if you can't tell the inherent difference between the two you should probably stop playing and go do something more productive.
***********************************************
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Zyress
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:11:00 -
[120]
Nope...they *choose* the roles they play. The guy that played Darth Vader *chose* whether or not he wanted to play that role...it wasn't foisted upon him without his consent. You are right that what we do in here reflects our character to some degree in real life....but precisely *how* does it do that?
I *play* a pirate in EvE...is the reflection on my RL character that I have homicidal or sociopathic tendencies that I bury very deeply so that no one will ever know (I occasionally get a mad impulse to want to pour custard in politicians trousers...does that count as sociopathic?)! Or is it that I don't take life too seriously and take this game even less seriously....it's a virtual world with virtual rules. It needs it's bad guys to make it the game it is. I choose to be a bad guy in game because PvP is fun and for the most part bad guys generate interesting game play and dynamics. It's a fun experiment, I like the character of a scoundrel in game, but to suggest that an evil deed in a game somehow indicates an evil character in real life is not only misleading, it's insulting.
Are you sure James Earl Jones who played Darth Vader wouldn't have rather been Han Solo or Luke Skywalker? Maybe Lando? I really don't think he cared too much as it was just a job for him, but that doesn't mean the darkside of the force appealed to him. You on the otherhand do choose the dark side because it does appeal to you. Yes it does lead to a lot of PvP which is fun, but I live in NPC 0.0 space and I bet I get just as many Pvp opportunities as you without forcing it on unwilling victims. I don't begrudge you your choice, honor and integrity isn't for everyone, compassion for ones fellow gamer isn't a prerequisite, and as I said, it takes all kinds to make a universe.
Frankly I have no idea what his preference might have been. He may have loved the challenge of playing an evil character simply because it was so at odds with his real life character. I think trying to contrast my choice against his is both presumptuous and misguided as neither of us has the slightest idea of what his motivation was for playing the character.
The problem here is that you still assume that EvE in some way equates to real life, it doesn't. I play lotro occasionally where I have two maxed out characters both of whom are good through and through and both of whom I take to play PvP in the Ettenmoors. In this game I've chosen to play entirely good characters (I could play evil monsters), as I have in other games. Does that now make me a fine upstanding member of the community in real life? Of course it doesn't. Any character you play presents you with challenges whether the character is inherently good or evil. This doesn't make the *player* either of these things. I don't assume that because you have honour and integrity in game that you possess these self-same qualities in real life. It's easy to play the square jawed champion of justice in a game and be nothing like that in real life.
It deeply concerns me that people seem to find it so difficult to separate a game from reality. Like an earlier poster pointed out, and I mean no disrespect; if you can't tell the inherent difference between the two you should probably stop playing and go do something more productive.
No I'm not saying I equate your in game actions to real life, in real life you frankly probably don't have the balls to act like you do in game, but you wish you did. Your in game persona just isn't bound any consequenses and so is probably a truer reflection of your character.
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