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[Press Release] FA Attack Jazz

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Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 00:02:00 - [1] Under the excellent military leadership of FC Baun a Jazz ship was attacked by FA tonight. I convo'd Baun, here is his reply: Dyvim Slorm > heya Baun > yes Dyvim Slorm > give me a straight answer please r JAZZ KOS or not, we keep getting different answers Baun > you are to be treated as anyone else who isnt FA Baun > which is better than you deserve Baun > is that all? Dyvim Slorm > ok We had agreed to leave FA space by midnight Saturday, we assume that Baun and FA felt threatened by our Indy's moving stuff out. We were fully intending to leave the area entirely as our new home is a long way away. However in light of the above FA have been set to HOSTILE and any Jazz pilot is free to attack. Well done FA for making yet another enemy, you must be very proud of yourselves.
Jazz Bo	Posted - 2005.01.28 00:18:00 - [2] Originally by: Dyvim Slorm However in light of the above FA have been set to HOSTILE and any Jazz pilot is free to attack. Woo hoo! More targets! Originally by: DB Preacher Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
Jazz Bo	Posted - 2005.01.28 00:19:00 - [3] Dyvim made me do it:-( Originally by: DB Preacher Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
Baun	Posted - 2005.01.28 00:26:00 - [4] Edited by: Baun on 28/01/2005 00:27:19 Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Under the excellent military leadership of FC Baun a Jazz ship was attacked by FA tonight. I convo'd Baun, here is his reply: Dyvim Slorm > heya Baun > yes Dyvim Slorm > give me a straight answer please r JAZZ KOS or not, we keep getting different answers Baun > you are to be treated as anyone else who isnt FA Baun > which is better than you deserve Baun > is that all? Dyvim Slorm > ok We had agreed to leave FA space by midnight Saturday, we assume that Baun and FA felt threatened by our Indy's moving stuff out. We were fully intending to leave the area entirely as our new home is a long way away. However in light of the above FA have been set to HOSTILE and any Jazz pilot is free to attack. Well done FA for making yet another enemy, you must be very proud of yourselves. As i said quite clearly you are to be treated as anyone else who isn't in FA. After you decided to run to ATUK your CEO (Jayne) assured as you would be gone in 24 hours. We gave you 48 hours and are now treating you as neutrals. If you were shot at it is because you refused to purchase a pass to use our space. I am glad you felt this warranted a forum post though, most amusing. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Loka	Posted - 2005.01.28 00:32:00 - [5] I see FA getting only more enemys, not more friends. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 00:48:00 - [6] Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 28/01/2005 00:50:24 Originally by: Baun I am glad you felt this warranted a forum post though, most amusing. Amusing for whom I wonder, hardly for FA, all you say by inference is that FA cannot keep it's word. Since when have you spoken for the FA Council anyway? How many more corps do you need to lose to ram the message home? Perhaps FA might wish to comment, but preferably with someone more qualified to speak on its behalf.
Deacon Iscariut	Posted - 2005.01.28 00:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Loka I see FA getting only more enemys, not more friends. Someone else shot in the back. Standard Operating Procedure for FA. And all because they made new friends. Good luck FA. Your past political fiasco's may be returning to haunt you. I killed Kenny, You Bastard
Baun	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 28/01/2005 00:50:24 Originally by: Baun I am glad you felt this warranted a forum post though, most amusing. Amusing for whom I wonder, hardly for FA, all you say by inference is that FA cannot keep it's word. Since when have you spoken for the FA Council anyway? How many more corps do you need to lose to ram the message home? Perhaps FA might wish to comment, but preferably with someone more qualified to speak on its behalf. Odd, you contact me then post a convo on the board and then complain that I shouldn't be speaking for FA. So if you were so interested in getting the FA's official position why did you contact me? My only conclusion is that you really had no interest in anything I said and rather only wanted to granstand, which is what this entire post is about. We kept our word. Jayne promised to be out in 24 hours, we gave you double that and then requested you buy passes (like anyone else). If that was unacceptable to you then you probably shouldn't have promised to leave in 24 hours. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:31:00 - [9] Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 28/01/2005 01:35:33 oops double post
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:33:00 - [10] Baun are you on the new FA Emergency Commitee (DICTATORSHIP) ?
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:35:00 - [11] I contacted you to see if we were KOS, simple enough thing to ask as an FC, as we were advised from sources inside FA that this was your intent. Any agreement that would be made to alter the date to leave would have been made with the FA Council, not you.
Insane Angel	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:37:00 - [12] Baun represents the best interests of the FA. As a military commander his role is clear. "...to act against any possible threats.." A clear time was given. It wasnt followed. Pass was requested to be purchased. Pilot ignored. Pilot was treated accordingly to the rules.
Sc0rpion	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:46:00 - [13] Sounds like FA is running out of eyes to jam thier fingers into. Way to go, guys. "The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously." -Freidrich Nietzche
FoxHunt	Posted - 2005.01.28 02:49:00 - [14] I think FA might be running out of steak knives soon... "If laughter truly is the best medicine, then the story you told me just cleared up my Hepatitis."
Reece Widowmaker	Posted - 2005.01.28 02:57:00 - [15] sorry for posting on my alt :\ but I can't post on my main without causing more trouble between NAP's. But woot on FA making more enemies ;) I dream of the day when FA has made so many enemies that we all just gang up and exterminate the FA presence from Eve altogether.
TornSoul	Posted - 2005.01.28 03:05:00 - [16] Dyvim Slorm if you have a sincere wish to resolve this peacefully I suggest you contact me. You know I next to never post on these forums. Put into that what you will. BIG Lottery [u
Kunming	Posted - 2005.01.28 03:07:00 - [17] This is most amusing to read, not cause Jazz gets attacked by their old "friends", but on this topic you'r all friendly and tell everyone what a great corp Jazz is, but then u go kill their indies while they are leaving. Quite contradicting imo. Intercepting since BETA
Baun	Posted - 2005.01.28 05:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Kunming This is most amusing to read, not cause Jazz gets attacked by their old "friends", but on this topic you'r all friendly and tell everyone what a great corp Jazz is, but then u go kill their indies while they are leaving. Quite contradicting imo. Would it be possible for you not to post about a topic about which you are clueless? They promised to be out. We treated them as neutrals. They turned around and spat in our face. The End Simply because you have had a problem with FA before doesnt mean you should be posting on every FA related topic. It simply looks like you are bitter and have psychological problems, you would really be better served to hold your tongue until the topic was actually relevant to you. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Vince Draken	Posted - 2005.01.28 05:31:00 - [19] Anyone here suprised?
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2005.01.28 06:05:00 - [20] I think FA are going to be the new CA,they seem to be ****ing everyone off these days. Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass.
amego	Posted - 2005.01.28 06:08:00 - [21] when i first heard of FA's policy of shooting x members as they left i didnt beleive it but after a 6 month tour of FA i know the horrid truth they have demonstrated once again their ability to attack only the weak or those they heavily out number. that said there are still a few FA members that are worth saving, but i implore you not to wait any longer,those of you that would be free. In response to FA's hostility towards jazz...i say only this...Baun would you like us to lube you next time ????? see www.eve-kills.com for further info. tho i doubt Baun needs to go any further than his inbox for a reminder.BEST OF LUCK TO JAZZ ASSOCIATES. CJ and Dyvim can count on support from [ARTW]
Vince Draken	Posted - 2005.01.28 06:10:00 - [22] As long as they got Baun around its a matter of time. I actually miss Temojin Destovial(sp?). At least he had some class. LOL at making friends pay 5M isk or shooting them.
Taffun	Posted - 2005.01.28 06:51:00 - [23] I'm thinking dinner is served and there soon won't be enough FA to go around.
AvanCade	Posted - 2005.01.28 08:32:00 - [24] This thread is funny, first loyal, then you get shot at. FA
Afsar	Posted - 2005.01.28 09:15:00 - [25] Jazz are nothing but traitors and if someone shots their indies, then well done. While leaving, they backstabbed FA once again by flooding market with ships and weapons, directly helping Fountain enemies. And they still have a nerve to whine here, come on...
Insane Angel	Posted - 2005.01.28 09:29:00 - [26] FA are baby eaters and everything under the sun. FA form blobs, FA attack weaker FA do this FA do that blah blah blah. Same old b5hit different day. Nothing is ever quite as simple as 'some' make it seem. Some people can think on their own, others need it done for them. 'He who hasnt sinned, cast the 1st stone'
The Anointed	Posted - 2005.01.28 09:32:00 - [27] Will someone just pwn FA already! -----[ The Riddle Of Steel Has Been Born ]-----
Phyre	Posted - 2005.01.28 09:51:00 - [28] I don't think it's a matter of how much everyone hates FA, it's more a matter of how consistent FA is with keeping thier word. I've seen this three times since I've been paying attention to FA. Once a long time ago with just me personally, when I was a noob and accidentally found myself in Fountain region. Big shpile that turned out to be. Then twice more, after I started playing again. Once with CFS. After the war was declared over, there was supposedly a NAP with ex-CFS people, allowing us to leave, but many of us, as we were leaving, were shot by FIX/FA. Technically, yeah, some people could have taken other routes out of Period, but almost everyone goes through A2. FIX took advantage of that. It's in the past now, part of history and no sense in arguing over it anymore. But with FA, history keeps repeating itself. Now it's Jazz they are hitting. Jazz probably put stuff on the market for the same reasons I did when I left Period. I didn't want to haul all those ships up, so I stuck em on the market. Jazz isn't helping FA's enemies any more than the FA merchants who sell thier goods in empire. FA could have allowed the remaining Jazz people to leave. It's not like everyone of Jazz could log on during that time period and leave, some people have RL to contend with. FFS, FA could have extended that and allowed them all to leave peacefully, and completely avoided this entire fiasco. But no, FA seems to enjoy **ing people off, and they do it often. Instead of fighting with everyone on the forums, why can't you (FA) take a step back, review the situation, and find out how you could have done things differently and for the better of both parties, then apply that newfound knowledge to the next time you come across this situation?
Bacchuss	Posted - 2005.01.28 11:15:00 - [29] on a lighter note the Great FC Baun's Geddon got absoutley raped this afternoon along with 5 other FA Battle ships and a hand full of frgis/cruisers ect.. with only the loss of 3 ceptors on our side 2005.01.27 21:56:00 Victim: Baun Corporation: EVE Marshals Destroyed Type: Armageddon Solar System: 671-ST System Security Level: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Destriero (laid the final blow) Security Status: 1.0 Corporation: Rubra Libertas Militia Ship Type: Armageddon Weapon Type: Mega Pulse Laser I Name: Crusari Security Status: 0.6 Corporation: Rubra Libertas Militia Ship Type: Armageddon Weapon Type: Unknown Name: Bi0hazard Security Status: 3.8 Corporation: The Art of War Ship Type: Armageddon Weapon Type: Unknown Name: beantin Security Status: 0.0 Corporation: The Art of War Ship Type: Deimos Weapon Type: Unknown Name: Exq Engineering Security Status: 4.7 Corporation: The Art of War Ship Type: Raven Weapon Type: Unknown Name: Bacchuss Security Status: -1.6 Corporation: Rubra Libertas Militia Ship Type: Megathron Weapon Type: Unknown Name: Species 8472 Security Status: -1.4 Corporation: Rubra Libertas Militia Ship Type: Tempest Weapon Type: Unknown Name: amego Security Status: 3.4 Corporation: The Art of War Ship Type: Crow Weapon Type: Unknown Name: bladeshadow Security Status: 4.5 Corporation: The Art of War Ship Type: Enyo Weapon Type: Unknown Destroyed items:
Mad Bomber	Posted - 2005.01.28 11:15:00 - [30] Killing FA just got even more fun. You can follow ARTW and RUBRA attacks on FA at eve-kills.com
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.28 11:17:00 - [31] Edited by: Plagues on 28/01/2005 11:52:27 Hi. I think its about time a said something too. As ex Fleet Commander for FA and ex Jazz member i know a lot of the rubbish that went on in Fountain the back stabbing etc etc. Now i think its time FA had a change of ownership cos you cant keep stabbing peeps in the back and doing what the hell you like. FA Do not assist their allies unless the pressure is on to do so and they only do that to make the forums look good for themselves, having FA on your doorstep is not a good thing your only there to protect their boarders whilst FA protect their wallets. Never have i seen such a selfish alliance thats only out to help themselves. There is only a few good FA corps left now and i wish those corps would leave for their own sake untill the dust has settled because i promise you FA is going down and i will not stop putting the pressure on untill the management has changed within that region. A few months back there where talks of a revolution within the ranks of FA and all was kept under the carpet,those corps know who you are and so do i , those corps want to think twice before you start Flaming [ARTW] and attacking Jazz otherwise my selective memory may all come back to me. Now FA peeps either get your act together and change the management structure and they way you do things or lose your home. As For Tornsoul who the hell do you think you are ? "FA does not belong to you" what happened to the coucil? they make the decisions not you or any other single member of FA. Any one that wants to help take FA down mail me ingame Plagues or felony, im sure we can work together in some way, not that we need the help at the moment as [ARTW] and RUBRA are kicking their rear . Plagues
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.28 11:21:00 - [32] Time for another Emergency FA council meeting i think
Mad Bomber	Posted - 2005.01.28 11:24:00 - [33] Time for the lube FA
Nepereta	Posted - 2005.01.28 11:46:00 - [34] Edited by: Nepereta on 28/01/2005 11:48:46 Not suprised. FA have ganked many ex-FA corps apon leaving. HINT: if you are a FA corp soon to be ex-FA move all your stuff out before you are ex-FA. Simple? Alternatively don't bother joining the Venal Scumbags in the first place. XF is successfull not because it is richer or more uber than other allainces. It is succesfull because it doesn't treat its new, current and ex members like sh*t. We stand by our people and the people stand by the Federation! DISCLAIMER: This is a personal opinion and does not represent the opinions of XF or KNONI.
Kunming	Posted - 2005.01.28 11:47:00 - [35] Originally by: Baun Would it be possible for you not to post about a topic about which you are clueless? They promised to be out. We treated them as neutrals. They turned around and spat in our face. The End Simply because you have had a problem with FA before doesnt mean you should be posting on every FA related topic. It simply looks like you are bitter and have psychological problems, you would really be better served to hold your tongue until the topic was actually relevant to you. Would it be possible for you not to post a reply with personal insults? I was pointing out to the obvious, you must be the one with problems to go into personal attacks right away. Be more civilized and you'll get a proper reply. Btw I know exactly what Jazz is going through, we had to endure the same bullsht. Hope you have more luck choosing your friends next time. Intercepting since BETA
Mr Blackwell	Posted - 2005.01.28 12:02:00 - [36] Lets make love not war huh Love boat is taking another run
Torvus Jay	Posted - 2005.01.28 12:19:00 - [37] Some things never change... And me <3 Mr. B ______________ Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye.
Dragonx	Posted - 2005.01.28 12:26:00 - [38] Gotta love the FA
Nathan Voughn	Posted - 2005.01.28 13:36:00 - [39] Plagues i thought of you as a decent guy, constructive and skilled. Now i wonder if i just followed an illusion. Just admit it, its only an excuse for you to do what you wanted to do anyway. You requested 24h to leave, you got 48, and after that time you were still in FA space... you knew that you will be treated as neutral after the grace period is over. But you choose to find an excuse to turn on FA. Revol mark3? Were you about to say "bring it on"? Instead of being professional you rather run here and post "ooh my god! the evil FA just killed 1 (in words: one) ship, now they have to suffer" Should i point you to the Jazz leaving thread? What did you guys say there again? That you are leaving with a heavy heart? That you enjoyed your time in FA? Cant be that bad after all ey, seeing as you stayed around for some time, you were even High Command of the FA, you had the decision making power... It was in your power to lead the FA... now you spread all kinds of crap, very inconsistent imo. Makes you wonder really what your agenda is. Anyway, have fun. Hope you dont make a fool of yourself, doesnt suit you.
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.28 13:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Mr Blackwell Lets make love not war huh I think I'll pass at making your kind of love Mr B :D Corps leaving FA prior to Jazz were allowed a full week to move their stuff and members out of Fountain, and while Jayne may have said they will be out in 24 hours, Jazz should have been given the normal time period of 1 week to leave. FFS Colsup added Jazz to the FA KOS list after ARTW & Rubra decimated their patrol the other night, and thanks to Robbie from DMGI for sorting that out for them. But I can kind of understand Colsup doing that as they have been the main corp at the end of ARTW and Rubra's guns. In the last 4 days we have not even seen a BIG or Xanadu member to shoot at, they must be all in empire doing agent missions or something. It's mainly been Colsup and Covenant that have engaged us, with a couple now and then from other FA corps. The other night we saw this huge blob heading our way, we assumed it was the FA fleet, but it turned out to be S-44 haulers and escorts moving their stuff to Aridia, and going back in shuttles They have left FA too, I hope they don't get the same exit treatment as Jazz did.
Kaiser	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:02:00 - [41] FA has been backstabbing everyone (their own corps, their allies) since it was formed. Time for a change. To every corp who wants to leave FA, contact Rubra for arranging NAPs while you leaving. Any corp in FA should think about their own future...sticking with BIG means you will share their future...
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:04:00 - [42] When you get your facts straight then maybe you can argue your point. I have not requested anything for jazz regarding leaving FA I left Jazz corp before Jazz even thought of leaving FA. I have a lot of grudges towards FA management and they way things are run so i made the decision to leave Jazz and FA before Jazz decided that FA was not the right place to be. Some of us left and joined ARTW and held back on engaging FA forces whilst Jazz made up there minds on what their next move was,we held back so things like stabbing jazz in the back wouldnt happen,but seems like the FA as normal do what they do best, and thats shoot corps leaving etc etc. Call your self an alliance? seems you look after #1 and forget those other alliances that are supposed to be your friends ,when did FA send forces to assist SA Norad etc ? Why are FA talking of hirring mercs to kill the shinra and votf etc ? because you cant run your own forces and have no backbone.(Yes this is true) maybe if you payed the active PVP corps back some of their losses things like this would not happen but no your all out for #1 . maybe its time for BOB to come back and show you how its done ? God you make me so sick, im glad im out of FA and GL to the corps that feel they have a future in FA cos FA has no future as it stands today. Flame me some more why dont ya ? Yup bring it on as you mentioned both here and the battlefield cos im ready and waiting. sorry for the long post's.
Nathan Voughn	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:24:00 - [43] Edited by: Nathan Voughn on 28/01/2005 14:29:38 Originally by: Darial In the last 4 days we have not even seen a BIG or Xanadu member to shoot at, they must be all in empire doing agent missions or something. It's mainly been Colsup and Covenant that have engaged us, with a couple now and then from other FA corps. Go ask Shinra where we are to be found, they should know. Propaganda of you camp used to have better skills. @Kaiser, same old stuff since how many months? years? At somepoint people should get over their ego...repeating the same old mantra over and over again will certianly at somepoint brainwash the audiance to an extant that they belive into your myth. Considering your endurance some might think you are more making this a religon. Now lets all chant: FA is evil, FA does backstabb, FA is the devil
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Nathan Voughn Plagues i thought of you as a decent guy, constructive and skilled. Now i wonder if i just followed an illusion. In case you haven't been keeping up with events Plagues isn't Jazz
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:28:00 - [45] This is really sweet. We agreed to be out of FA space by Saturday midnight gametime, as mentioned in our other press release. We were then booted from FA a couple of days ago. Jayne did receive an evemail stating this was for security reasons, there was no mention of any intent to change the leaving deadline, so we thought "fair enough". There were a couple of incidents over the next 2 evenings of Jazz ships being shot at. Jazz did not retaliate and FC Robbie dealt with each case rapidly and efficiently - many thanks to him. Last night Baun opened fire on one of our ships, the rest is history. Now onto the particulars: 1/ Previously, all corps leaving FA were given a week, so why have the rules suddenly changed just for Jazz? 2/ Following on from the above, it wouldn't have killed FA to issue a pass, but I guess the long service that Jazz has given to FA doesn't count for much does it? 3/ Regarding any change in the deadline, this is a civil rather than a military issue and would be dealt with by the FA Council and not by an FC. The FA Council has always been careful about ensuring FC's keep out of the political process. 4/ I'm hardily surprised there are ships on the market now as we can't move them now, what on earth did you expect. 5/ To sum up, Jazz wanted to leave FA and now FA expect Jazz to pay to leave.
Nepereta	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:29:00 - [46] Originally by: Darial Corps leaving FA prior to Jazz were allowed a full week to move their stuff and members out of Fountain, and while Jayne may have said they will be out in 24 hours, Jazz should have been given the normal time period of 1 week to leave. Lol, do you have any ex-FA friends & colleagues? I do and I know even back in the days when Evol was FA friendly ( along time ago) many ex-FA where summarily culled on the way out. If you are FA: a) if you are Xanadu or BIG then you can tell the rest what to do. b) if you are not: ask Xanadu or BIG how high you must jump and what hoops you must jump through. Never contradict them inside the allaince politics and then you might be happy as their pet puppy-dog. c) sneak out and leave when your assets & pilots are far away from FA. DISCLAIMER: these opinions are my own and do not reflect XF or KNONI opinions.
Nathan Voughn	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:30:00 - [47] Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Originally by: Nathan Voughn Plagues i thought of you as a decent guy, constructive and skilled. Now i wonder if i just followed an illusion. In case you haven't been keeping up with events Plagues isn't Jazz Did i mention Jazz?
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:32:00 - [48] So, listen, enough of this. Where's the videos?
Nathan Voughn	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:39:00 - [49] Originally by: Nepereta blabla If you are FA: a) if you are Xanadu or BIG then you can tell the rest what to do. b) if you are not: ask Xanadu or BIG how high you must jump and what hoops you must jump through. Never contradict them inside the allaince politics and then you might be happy as their pet puppy-dog. c) sneak out and leave when your assets & pilots are far away from FA. Thats why Xanadu is no longer High Command of the FA, since some months. Yay Xanadu rules the FA, yay yay! Man we are not even part of the decission making process anymore. We gave other corps the chance to have a go as leading corp of the FA. Some like 4S use it for the better, some like Jazz dont use the oportunity.
Kaiser	Posted - 2005.01.28 15:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Nathan Voughn Edited by: Nathan Voughn on 28/01/2005 14:29:38 Originally by: Darial In the last 4 days we have not even seen a BIG or Xanadu member to shoot at, they must be all in empire doing agent missions or something. It's mainly been Colsup and Covenant that have engaged us, with a couple now and then from other FA corps. Go ask Shinra where we are to be found, they should know. Propaganda of you camp used to have better skills. @Kaiser, same old stuff since how many months? years? At somepoint people should get over their ego...repeating the same old mantra over and over again will certianly at somepoint brainwash the audiance to an extant that they belive into your myth. Considering your endurance some might think you are more making this a religon. Now lets all chant: FA is evil, FA does backstabb, FA is the devil Well, you know, as long as we grow and have fun all is fine . And considering my endurance as you say might mean that what we say is correct you should ask yourself why FA is never able not to fire upon the corps who leaving. or why 80% of people who were in FA and then left fight you or dislike you... Anyway, you might want to go back in your core m8, you know, your miners weren't happy to stay docked in their capital system yesterday night
Benjamin Kekkonen	Posted - 2005.01.28 15:25:00 - [51] Fountain Alliance -> New Fountain Alliance -> Pheonix Fountain Alliance ? - Political Aide to Notferr -
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.28 15:29:00 - [52] Edited by: Darial on 28/01/2005 15:31:21 Originally by: Nathan Voughn Thats why Xanadu is no longer High Command of the FA, since some months. Yay Xanadu rules the FA, yay yay! Man we are not even part of the decission making process anymore. We gave other corps the chance to have a go as leading corp of the FA. Some like 4S use it for the better, some like Jazz dont use the oportunity. High Command are nothing now with the new Emergency Committee... You must follow their orders or else !! (I would quote it directly if I still had access but I can't remember the exact wording) So whats the point in having an FA Council or FA High Command now when Tornsoul and his/her hand picked cronies are running FA as a dictatorship ? I'm sure there are some FA corps that are not happy about that, but are too afraid of standing up against BIG/XAN and a couple of other corps. It's time for all FA corps to decide now on whether you want to live under a dictatorship and be targets for hostile corps or live free from the crap that FA politics enforce on you and be neutral (or better) to the hostile corps.
Raivotar	Posted - 2005.01.28 15:50:00 - [53] To cry, cry me a river Cry me a river-er Cry me a river Cry me a river-er, yea yea ./me continues singing Super Poseidon > So this is how it feels like to be an egg and 10000000 sperm cells try to penetrate you
Ruoja	Posted - 2005.01.28 15:57:00 - [54] Removed {OOC posts are not allowed in this forum} - <Mulciber Zephron>
Mr Blackwell	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:02:00 - [55] Removed {OOC posts are not allowed in this forum} - <Mulciber Zephron>
Kraich	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:03:00 - [56] wheres Vladimir?
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:04:00 - [57] Originally by: Nathan Voughn Did i mention Jazz? By inference, but my apologies if I've misread you.
La'nugos	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Kraich wheres Vladimir? I AM
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:07:00 - [59] This is a typical FA event... ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Mr Blackwell	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:12:00 - [60] Guys its summer soon get rdy for the beach start shave ya backs guys Or do like me use curling iron if ya dont wanna shave
Charlena	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:14:00 - [61] Finfleet doing their best to get it locked.
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:18:00 - [62] Edited by: Plagues on 28/01/2005 16:18:33 Originally by: Nathan Voughn Plagues i thought of you as a decent guy, constructive and skilled. Now i wonder if i just followed an illusion. Just admit it, its only an excuse for you to do what you wanted to do anyway. You requested 24h to leave, you got 48, and after that time you were still in FA space... you knew that you will be treated as neutral after the grace period is over. But you choose to find an excuse to turn on FA. Revol mark3? Were you about to say "bring it on"? Instead of being professional you rather run here and post "ooh my god! the evil FA just killed 1 (in words: one) ship, now they have to suffer" Should i point you to the Jazz leaving thread? What did you guys say there again? That you are leaving with a heavy heart? That you enjoyed your time in FA? Cant be that bad after all ey, seeing as you stayed around for some time, you were even High Command of the FA, you had the decision making power... It was in your power to lead the FA... now you spread all kinds of crap, very inconsistent imo. Makes you wonder really what your agenda is. Anyway, have fun. Hope you dont make a fool of yourself, doesnt suit you. Hmm i dont remember asking anyone for 24 hrs to leave so you must be reffering to jazz "get it straight" I posted in no replies with ref to jazz leaving FA and the good post's about jazz etc "get that straight" I dont need an excuse to turn on FA you made my mind up ages ago " have that straight up" The stuff you say where i talk about the crap ? admit it "thats more straighter than you really want to make public" "Now get this straight FA management suck and we are heading straight back up" take it how u like
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:20:00 - [63] Hey dont diss fin fleet they are a damn good corp. its a shame they bending over still for FA sorry Mr B had to throw that one in m8 :)
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:30:00 - [64] Hmm, I've suddenly seen the what FA are trying to pull. ARTW splits from Jazz, Jazz leaves FA. FA thinks, we can use ARTW as an excuse to boot Jazz on security grounds and then charge Jazz for a corp pass to collect their stuff as they'll be weakened from losing some of their pvp'ers. Is that extortion or piracy? If there's anything we have left behind which we need we'll come and take it and we'll not be buying a pass. Your greed and paranoia have got the better of you this time, so drink the poison you have brewed for yourself.
TornSoul	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:31:00 - [65] Edited by: TornSoul on 28/01/2005 16:33:32 Originally by: Darial Tornsoul and his/her hand picked cronies are running FA as a dictatorship? I had a 2 days break from EVE, and 'came back' to (surprisingly) finding myself in that position. (I actually missed the council meeting where this was decided) Someone (the council) saw fit to put (read vote!) a number of ppl into that position. I can assure you, I had zero to do with that - But will duly fullfill the duties of the post I've been selected to perform for the FA. Oh - You forgot to mention, the council can change this anytime they see fit btw. I suggest you go handpick some facts instead of spreading nonsense BIG Lottery [u
Mr Blackwell	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:44:00 - [66] Originally by: Plagues Hey dont diss fin fleet they are a damn good corp. its a shame they bending over still for FA sorry Mr B had to throw that one in m8 :) heh ya think the ghay emperor will bend? Its kinda sad to see that some of my best students from my ghay school has left,but it doesnt matter cus you all are still my biatches.
Calmity Jayne	Posted - 2005.01.28 17:23:00 - [67] Quote: We kept our word. Jayne promised to be out in 24 hours, we gave you double that and then requested you buy passes (like anyone else). If that was unacceptable to you then you probably shouldn't have promised to leave in 24 hours. The so called 'promise' was delivered in an iRC conversation in the FA-Commander channel. However, I didn't speak to Baun at all and only said Jazz would try to be clear in 24 hours. Now, as it happens, Jazz the Corp was clear in 24 hours. However, some Jazz members, due to not logging on, found themselves still in Fountain. I find this thread really disappointing. Jazz were amongst the most active defenders of FA. Some would claim we were THE most active. We gave our all for the Alliance. It's just sad that they couldn't honour their own rule regarding Coprs leaving FA. Maybe I'm just too naive. It's true that Jazz were elected to the 'High Council'. What is also true is that the High Council does absolutely nothing. The way things get changed in FA is through the FA.Command channel and meetings. I became frustrated at the fact that I seemed to be a voice alone on those channels a lot of the time. I don't blame FA for that, that's democracy after all. But, because we generally didn't agree with the way things were going, we chose to leave because that's one decision I can make without needing the FA Council behind me. Why we don't get the customary one week to clear Fountain is totally beyond me, regardless of who our new friends may be. It's a shame it's come to this. It didn't need to. Farewell FA, maybe CCP can arrange the 'Last Post'to be played as your sun finally sinks beyond the horizon. Beauty IS the Beast
Bacchuss	Posted - 2005.01.28 18:22:00 - [68] Originally by: Dianabolic So, listen, enough of this. Where's the videos? the only video i have is after the inital battle with bauns fleet ater that we moved to YZ-MN5 ect... and all of fa safe spoted except for maybe 3 or 4 guys
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.28 18:25:00 - [69] Originally by: TornSoul I had a 2 days break from EVE, and 'came back' to (surprisingly) finding myself in that position. (I actually missed the council meeting where this was decided) Someone (the council) saw fit to put (read vote!) a number of ppl into that position. I can assure you, I had zero to do with that - But will duly fullfill the duties of the post I've been selected to perform for the FA. Oh - You forgot to mention, the council can change this anytime they see fit btw. I suggest you go handpick some facts instead of spreading nonsense So the FA Council can nominate (and vote on) anyone they want for any position without even asking the person if they are the slight bit interested in that position ? I very much doubt that. I am only referencing information posted on the Xanadu (FA) boards, if that is incorrect then fix it. I took it as fact as it was posted on an official FA members forum. And btw if it was on the agenda for the council meeting, which corp added it to the agenda ? As for your 2 days break from Eve, don't make me laugh, you rarely spend more than 2 hours in Eve per day (or at least you were never online in Alliance channel for much longer than that). And since Baun didn't answer my question, maybe you can, is Baun on the FA emergency committee ?
Adam C	Posted - 2005.01.28 19:14:00 - [70] I look forward following examples of poor leadership through the emergency meetings and misguided votes. As FA premier corporations (Creme de la creme of the alliance leaves) which one by one they will examples Inc jazz/s-44 - plus even more corporations previously premier in FA defense. Our poor lil'ol FC Baun will be fighting an ever increasingly losing battle. Soz m8ty to get personal. lol but ic u as a stone in a fountain. Not to mention just one clown in FA military leadership. Oh and Shinra n CO down south. Keep up the good work FA knows delve -period basis is key to their future Anti-FA combatent forces will notice ever more instances of poor leadership through their fleets of ships ever more unbalanced, unruly quite frankly dismal attempt of defense. Which will be conquered through the use of clever tactics and out right aggressiveness which most of FA are unable to counter? Oh and just one more thing. FA trial members. Ure most targeted soz but ure easy prey. Not to mention FA leadership probably counting on new blood to hang on to their ideals. CU -------------- Kind Regards
TornSoul	Posted - 2005.01.28 19:42:00 - [71] Originally by: Calmity Jayne Quote: We kept our word. Jayne promised to be out in 24 hours, we gave you double that and then requested you buy passes (like anyone else). If that was unacceptable to you then you probably shouldn't have promised to leave in 24 hours. The so called 'promise' was delivered in an iRC conversation in the FA-Commander channel. However, I didn't speak to Baun at all and only said Jazz would try to be clear in 24 hours. Now, as it happens, Jazz the Corp was clear in 24 hours. However, some Jazz members, due to not logging on, found themselves still in Fountain. Selective memory Jayne... Quote: 2005.01.25 19:04:00 I fully understand and accept FA's decision. Please be assured Jazz is neither assisiting nor approves of ARTW's actions. We hope to be clear of FA space in 24 hours. Good luck FA, it was an honour. -------------------- 2005.01.25 18:59:00 Jayne, From the FA boards, EMERGENCY DECISION JAZZ gets the boot Due to the attacks on FA by ex-JAZZ Members in the corp now known as ARTW, JAZZ is being kicked from the alliance due to threat of ARTW alts remaining in JAZZ and compromising coms. We appologize for this, but it is something that for our own security must be done. JAZZ is not KOS at this time still. Posted per Coug Per this decision, I have ejected Jazz from the FA, Fly well, Fly true, Good luck in your future. nashi Regardless any (now apparent) I'll feelings - At least stick to the truth. You yourself set a (fuzzy) deadline - which was much shorter than any FA had previosly given (a week would be standard, as I belive Dyvim? has already pointed out). FA doubled your self imposed very short deadline from 24h to 48h. After the 48h Jazz where set to neutral (not KOS) - and treated like any other neutral in FA. Now given that you say you hoped to be out within 24 hours, its only fair to think that you would have told all your pilots to be out within that time. Regardles, knowing the logistics involved, FA extended it to the 48h to give the 'stragglers' some additional time. And yet FA gets this rubbish from you, about not giving you a week to get out... You never asked for a week to get out - You asked for 24h, and got 48h. Did you set yourself such a short deadline to achieve this mess we have now? One wonders... BIG Lottery [u
Baun	Posted - 2005.01.28 19:51:00 - [72] Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Last night Baun opened fire on one of our ships, the rest is history. What are you talking about? I never shot anyone. For the love of consistency get your story straight. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Baun	Posted - 2005.01.28 19:55:00 - [73] Originally by: Adam C Our poor lil'ol FC Baun will be fighting an ever increasingly losing battle. Soz m8ty to get personal. lol but ic u as a stone in a fountain. Not to mention just one clown in FA military leadership. What are you lot? Obsessed with me? Get a grip. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Bacchuss	Posted - 2005.01.28 20:15:00 - [74] Originally by: Baun Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Last night Baun opened fire on one of our ships, the rest is history. What are you talking about? I never shot anyone. For the love of consistency get your story straight. [ 2005.01.27 21:55:11 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Baun [EVEM] places an excellent hit on you, inflicting 105.2 damage. you shot at me
Baun	Posted - 2005.01.28 20:25:00 - [75] Originally by: Bacchuss Originally by: Baun Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Last night Baun opened fire on one of our ships, the rest is history. What are you talking about? I never shot anyone. For the love of consistency get your story straight. [ 2005.01.27 21:55:11 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Baun [EVEM] places an excellent hit on you, inflicting 105.2 damage. you shot at me I know ;p. I am curious what was your HP at the end there Bacchus? When your 15 ships finally managed to jam me I was pretty sure i had started into structure. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Bacchuss	Posted - 2005.01.28 20:42:00 - [76] actualy you had me worried as i seemd to be the primary target of atleast 3 of the Bs's but no you didint get int ostruct you did however get me down to apx 15-20% armor left
Merlin	Posted - 2005.01.28 21:18:00 - [77] I find some of the selective logic here quite astonishing. Calmity Jaynes's "offer" that we would be out within 24 hours was nothing more than a comment - in what other way can "we hope to be clear of FA space in 24 hours" be interpreted unless you are looking to make political capital out of it? Your "patronage" in extending our alledgedly self imposed time constraint is laughable when you admit yourselves that the usual is 1 week. Lets face it - you thought Jazz may have been helping The Art of War. In the circumstances, from a neutral perspective, this may be seen as fair comment. However; I find it particularly disappointing that the Fountain "Alliance" "leadership" (leadership - ho ho ho) cannot seem to exhaust the sensible diplomatic channels before resorting to tantrum tactics and booting Jazz without trusting us. You then say you treat us as neutrals - i.e. Kill on Sight. Dont even try to deny that you wouldn't REALLY care if a Jazz ship got destroyed. All this implied posturing about the Jazz / Art of War relationship is offensive; I have flown with all those guys but once they chose their own path that was their decision. Jazz respected that but did not help them - and in turn The Art of War respected that. Trust and Respect are huge words - they just are not in the BIG dictionary. All that FA have done on this thread is attempt to defend the indefensible. Which is ironic no? "Do not be daunted when chaos reigns all around - it undoubtedley will" Brig James Hill DSO** MC before Normandy
amego	Posted - 2005.01.28 21:43:00 - [78] strange how ppl you never see for 6 months pop up on the forums. Tornsoul as the leader or ****** as we like to call him, never showed his face once in yz-lql in all the time i was in FA. great leadership oh sorry i mean dictatorship cough. Does Tornsoul really exsist ?? has he been brought to 30k skillpoints and its been covered up hence his permadocked state??? maybe he has no clone and aint risking it to undock ??? answers on a postcard. The most imaginative oh sorry i mean comical response will receive an imperial ibis lmao woooooooooooohoooooooooo and the beat goes on and on and on and on ...know wat i mean ts ???? the word is RELENTLESS. and btw did you have to go to a council meeting for permission ...yes i said permission....to post on eve forums.....well did ya huh huh
amego	Posted - 2005.01.28 21:48:00 - [79] there is one hand picked fact as you asked for it
Charlena	Posted - 2005.01.28 22:04:00 - [80] When BIG gets desperate enough, CCP will just spawn a ship for their scam, err lottery.
Noemie	Posted - 2005.01.28 22:04:00 - [81] blablabla typical anti-FA propaganda please stop flaming forum, has this war is in-game -------
qrac	Posted - 2005.01.28 22:22:00 - [82] Edited by: qrac on 28/01/2005 22:23:10 Originally by: amego strange how ppl you never see for 6 months pop up on the forums. Tornsoul as the leader or ****** as we like to call him, never showed his face once in yz-lql in all the time i was in FA. great leadership oh sorry i mean dictatorship cough. Does Tornsoul really exsist ?? has he been brought to 30k skillpoints and its been covered up hence his permadocked state??? maybe he has no clone and aint risking it to undock ??? answers on a postcard. The most imaginative oh sorry i mean comical response will receive an imperial ibis lmao woooooooooooohoooooooooo and the beat goes on and on and on and on ...know wat i mean ts ???? the word is RELENTLESS. and btw did you have to go to a council meeting for permission ...yes i said permission....to post on eve forums.....well did ya huh huh i see tornsoul in gang atm chasing shinra in pb. cough pwned cough ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
Insane Angel	Posted - 2005.01.28 23:11:00 - [83] Serious question: If it was so bad, and so wrong what actions did you take to help matters within FA? A) Organize other corps and feed them b5hit to get them to hate BIG and XAN to try and throw them out B)Take an ACTIVE role in talking one on one with those you have problems with and SOLVING problems instead of feeding the problem and making worse C)Leave the problem, let it fester, let your members hate their x-alliance m8s then quit and decide its more fun to engage your old alliance m8s Which one of those are the most correct? Adam C> The clown comment, I can only assume that was meant towards me. Thought I knew you, thought you knew me. Guess not. Is it true that all snakes in the grass move on their bellies cause they are spineless?
Psychosis81	Posted - 2005.01.29 00:27:00 - [84] I really have to say reading this post is hilarious, especially the last one by insane calling people spineless omg and what would that make fa the mighty alliance that wont engage something unless theyve got em majorly outnumbered, its a joke ive been in 75fa most the week the only time you engage FOUR! of us yep thats 4 of us is when youve got roughly around 30 people in local and even then ive saw your bs hug the gates like scared kids. Its a joke you havent got a clue how to manage a core defence force even with your mighty 40 man blob goin round were takin out bs under your noses. This is the 1st time ive ever posted on these boards cus usually i dont see the point but fa u really make me laugh thinkin your so brilliant when in fact u cant handle 4 bs in core and have the nerve to say about us ganking you. If I remember correctly i was doing exactly the same thing in curse when i was in fa and everyone was buzzin when we got a kill. Another thing the whole time i was in the alliance the standing joke was when we saw a player from big we took a screenshot was damn hard to get em aswell. All i can say is thank god i left fa cus man its a joke you can flame me as much as you like dont bother me in the slightest all i will say is ill see you lot in eve.
DARTHMAUL sith	Posted - 2005.01.29 00:31:00 - [85] I dont very often post on this forum so you guys are lucky I do however find it disturbing that fa can treat people they used to call friends like this (it is only a game after all), however it is not until you leave fa (im ex fa btw) that you can see how much of a vindictive and greedy alliance fa is, although there are a few good corps in fa most of them are just interested in fattening there wallets up and stabbing people in the back. Also scince the cfs war fa dont seam to be making many friends just A LOT of enemys which as we all know isnt helping there cause, so i do hope "some" of fa do hold on although tbh we all know fa are going down, so see you on the battle field guys and...... DOWN WITH FA!!!!!!!!! soon(tm) and for you fa guys that dont think fa is going down a bit of linkage for you: ATUK KILL BOARD
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.29 00:40:00 - [86] Originally by: qrac i see tornsoul in gang atm chasing shinra in pb. cough pwned cough Thats about the only place you will see him, protecting his almighty conquerable station in TPAR. I bet BIG are the only FA corp still making isk from that station, even though plenty of good ideas were discussed for sharing the profit from conquerable stations in delve/pb. I remember when Jazz took that station in TPAR after a hostile corp took it from BIG, Tornsoul couldn't wait to start shooting at it to take it back for BIG so they didn't lose too much profit to Jazz. Thats the sort of Alliance behaviour you get from BIG. I suppose he/she will try deny that too.
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.29 00:46:00 - [87] Originally by: Psychosis81 Another thing the whole time i was in the alliance the standing joke was when we saw a player from big we took a screenshot was damn hard to get em aswell That had me in stiches m8, but I could well believe it.
EviL ElecTricIaN	Posted - 2005.01.29 00:48:00 - [88] Edited by: EviL ElecTricIaN on 29/01/2005 00:53:43 Perhaps this'll shed some light on the matter (to non-FA members) Linkage Good luck to JAZZ, and congratulations for standing up and showing a pair. As a personal sign of respect, I'll do my best to not shoot at any of you I may cross paths with over the nest week or so
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.29 00:49:00 - [89] Hmm i wonder if this is FA up to its old tricks again ? 2005.01.28 21:49:00 Guiding Hand Social Club has declared war on The Art of War. After 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those invovled. ohh well more targets to shoot at, we will be in and around FA core
thelung187	Posted - 2005.01.29 01:41:00 - [90] Well, it's been a while since I ranted on any sort of forum, so figure good a time as any to bust it out. 1. It absolutely astounds me that there is no sense of leniency given to a corp who undoubtedly provided some of the most pvp'ers for FA in general. This would include not only Plagues leading a perma-fleet in PB for I don't even know how long, but most of the Jazz tac-ops wing making up the majority of the gang at that point. 2. I'm sorry, when did having alts in other corps make that a KOS-able offense? It's well known that Xan/Big have enemy alts in there, but ffs, let's keep them around, for ye olde donations are unyielding About as useful as t1ts on a boar. 3. Baun making this personal with Loka and insulting his mental state is little more than a cheap shot for lack of a better retort. Talking sense to Baun is like trying to ride a fetus like a horse; it just isn't possible. 4. In response to IA's post: A. No feeding was needed, anyone who spent time in FA fleets clearly saw a lack of participation by Xan/BIG in any sort of fleet operations, in comparison with other corps and their involvement. Nobody can deny that <staring right at IA> B. I did take an active role; I decided to become a diplomat, to try and help get things organized instead of making more enemies. To that end, when I left, FA was in more trouble than ever, despite the fact that Baun himself agreed with my ideals. And let's not forget, Jazz had how many subcommanders/fleetcommanders? Jazz was voted onto the high council, correct? Even multiple voices speaking in unison were ultimately ignored because Tornsoul was unwilling to negotiate out of the "saving face" mentality. C. Fester would imply a lack of action. I was repeatedly told to either stfu, kicked from IRC channels, or other actions of that nature to get my message across. Jazz being shot after 2 days for no direct hostile actions is simply variations on a theme. 5. Nathan Voughn/Sastul: Just wondering, how many diplomats 4S have? I haven't seen Gresnik posting on the subject just yet. And are they on the uber-High Council? The secret one that nobody knows about except a chosen few? Comments from IA or Tornsoul, both members (expecting massive denials here)? Don't deny it, because just like the x-files, the truth is out there. That's it, flame me to hell if you like, but this is all I've got to say about the subject. [ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or something
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.29 01:54:00 - [91] Edited by: Percivs on 29/01/2005 01:55:57 strange, not letting me post.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.29 01:55:00 - [92] Edited by: Percivs on 29/01/2005 01:57:30 FFS, technical problems suck. where's the delete?
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.29 01:57:00 - [93] Originally by: Merlin I find some of the selective logic here quite astonishing. Calmity Jaynes's "offer" that we would be out within 24 hours was nothing more than a comment - in what other way can "we hope to be clear of FA space in 24 hours" be interpreted unless you are looking to make political capital out of it? Your "patronage" in extending our alledgedly self imposed time constraint is laughable when you admit yourselves that the usual is 1 week. Lets face it - you thought Jazz may have been helping The Art of War. In the circumstances, from a neutral perspective, this may be seen as fair comment. However; I find it particularly disappointing that the Fountain "Alliance" "leadership" (leadership - ho ho ho) cannot seem to exhaust the sensible diplomatic channels before resorting to tantrum tactics and booting Jazz without trusting us. You then say you treat us as neutrals - i.e. Kill on Sight. Dont even try to deny that you wouldn't REALLY care if a Jazz ship got destroyed. All this implied posturing about the Jazz / Art of War relationship is offensive; I have flown with all those guys but once they chose their own path that was their decision. Jazz respected that but did not help them - and in turn The Art of War respected that. Trust and Respect are huge words - they just are not in the BIG dictionary. All that FA have done on this thread is attempt to defend the indefensible. Which is ironic no? "Do not be daunted when chaos reigns all around - it undoubtedley will" Brig James Hill DSO MC before Normandy For anyone who has not been a pilot in Fountain. It is not impossible to find a friendly pilot for people who have left Fountain. Passes can and are issued. And friends do take care of friends. No where in this entire thread has it been said that the pilot who was alleged to exceed the 48 hours given attempted to convo someone to obtain a passport. And I cannot deny or affirm that someone from Jazz was shot at, because I wans't there, and no one who was there has told me. Fountain Alliance has in the past arranged exit passports for players who return from 6 months away from game only to discover that they've been ejected from their previous corp. Or pilots whose corp was an Fountain applicant and later left for whatever reason. Heck, I've personally arranged for passports for people attempting to exit the region whose corp received even less time to exit the region than Jazz has been given. And I'm sure that I'm not alone when I say that if any of my friends in Jazz (who are still there, rather than in ARTW and attacking me and my allies) left the alliance, they would receive every reasonable effort to protect them on their way out. But if you don't have any friends left in Fountain who would take care of you, I pose to you that you ask yourself why that is. Certainly the mighty (though somewhat nebulous) "politics" answer cannot apply to every reason why you are downtrodden and victimized. What no one is saying however is that if pilots exiting Fountain do not cut ties in a bad way, then they have to deal with the hostiles patrolling the pipe from YZ-LQL to D4K. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Except that if they stay on good terms with Fountain Alliance, get a pass and lose their ship to any of the corps currently engaged in hostilities within Fountain region, they don't get to come cry here about it. Why? Because no one cares if RUBRA or UDIE ganks you in an indy while trying to leave the region. No one would jump on the band wagon and say "you're oppressed! Damn those RUBRA for ganking you!" NO ONE. Except Fountain Alliance and their friends.** To the rest of the readership, if this thread was about how someone from Fountain Alliance had gotten ganked by RUBRA or ATUK on their way to empire, everyone would laugh their ass off. This isn't happening now because many people seem to have now decided that Fountain is the new "ebil empire" since Curse is no longer an alliance formally. (everyone needs a bad guy I guess) The only people who seem to be giving this thread any substance at all are people who are obviously hostile to Fountain Alliance (i.e., those corps that either are engaged in CONCORD approved wars, are attacking pilots in the Fountain region, or are engaged in hostilities in Outer Ring or Period Basis, neither of which Fountain holds, but which we selflessly sacrifice time and ships to the defense of our neighbors and friends. With the obvious exception of Stain pilots, who are in theory NAP'd with us, but who apparently have individual pilots that don't like us for some reason beyond my ability to comprehend.) And Plagues, give it a rest. As I understand it, your beef is with certain people in management of Fountain Alliance. Where you could at least try gain sympathy for some of the things that have --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.29 02:06:00 - [94] Edited by: Percivs on 29/01/2005 02:08:09 [cont...] happened to you and Jazz, you instead come here and act in a way that only causes pilots who don't know what happened to rally around the defense of their homeland. (I don't even know that anything happened, but it's obvious from the way you are acting that you feel this is somehow personal... Something did happen, even if you're wrong, for which you are now prepared to be "relentless." yay for you, me, I'm just confused by your motivation, and because of your behavior, I'm no longer predisposed to hearing your side of it, to be completely honest.) I once held a measure of respect for you as a FC (fleet commander) and was saddened to hear that you had stepped down. I was shocked and dismayed to hear that you not only left Jazz, but Fountain Alliance. I give you props for how you kept it professional while you were in the alliance, but how you have behaved, especially on the forums, since your departure is debasing. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.29 02:41:00 - [95] 1. Why should a former Fountain Alliance member be forced to pay a fine/passport to leave the region ? They won't be mining or hunting npc's on their way out. Is it not FA policy to allow a stranger to Fountain to leave your space without paying for a passport and without being attacked ? I know this from personal experience, because I was told on numerous occasions that we are not allowed to engage them unless they remain in FA space without buying a passport. 2. I know for a fact that anyone in FA space that is not in an FA corp would be allowed to travel safely by ARTW and Rubra, and probably ATUK and others too, especially a Jazz member (since Jazz are no longer an FA corp). So don't try use that as an excuse for attacking ex-Alliance collegues trying to get their stuff out of your claimed space. 3. All this talk of deadlines, 24 hours, 48 hours etc... Percivs, you said (I quote) "Heck, I've personally arranged for passports for people attempting to exit the region whose corp received even less time to exit the region than Jazz has been given.". What was the corp name ? Even back in the days of the coup d'Útat when corps like CORM, LLC and CME were kicked out of the Fountain Alliance, when FA produced logs of CORM hiring mercs to attack an FA corp (sound familiar ?), even then those corps were allowed one week to get their stuff and members out of fountain space (this was after some members of those corps were openly attacked for undocking). So why was Jazz not given the "normal" time period for leaving Fountain space ?
Raivotar	Posted - 2005.01.29 02:59:00 - [96] So Cry me a river Cry me a river er er cry me a river cry me a river er er YA YA Oh The damage is done So i guess i be leavin Oh The damage is done So i guess i be leavin Oh The damage is done So i guess i be leavin You don't have to say, What cha did I already know, I found out from HIM now theres just no chance with you and me we will never be don't it make you sad about it So Cry me a river Cry me a river er er cry me a river cry me a river er er cry me a river cry me a river........... ./me continues hit the beat Super Poseidon > So this is how it feels like to be an egg and 10000000 sperm cells try to penetrate you
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2005.01.29 03:01:00 - [97] Originally by: Darial Even back in the days of the coup d'Útat when corps like CORM, LLC and CME were kicked out of the Fountain Alliance, when FA produced logs of CORM hiring mercs to attack an FA corp (sound familiar ?), even then those corps were allowed one week to get their stuff and members out of fountain space (this was after some members of those corps were openly attacked for undocking). So why was Jazz not given the "normal" time period for leaving Fountain space ? Let's examine a few facts here: Fact 1: JAZZ was given plenty of time to leave. Fact 2: JAZZ was declared neutral by the FA despite JAZZ's own post about having close ties with ARTW, who was even then working with RUBRA attacking FA. Fact 3: Time expired. JAZZ was still neutral, so like any neutral corp, was expected to either pay the normal pass fee, or, if circumstances were strange (such as someone having not logged on for several days and being in the middle of Fountain) talking to someone about it and getting a free pass to leave. Fact 4: Something happened. Maybe it was a mistake, miscommunication. Maybe the JAZZ pilot provoked an FA pilot. Maybe an FA pilot got trigger-happy. Instead of trying to work it out, JAZZ immediately throws up a **-storm, resulting in this thread. Perhaps the more dense among us cannot (or do not wish to) see it, but it seems to me that there were more... ulterior motives here. I'll close this post with the following excerpt from the JAZZ corp description: ATUK SPONSORED** Y HELO THAR! ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.29 03:03:00 - [98] The whole thing is very simple, we were to leave by Saturday midnight and we made the mistake of agreeing to try to hurry it up. Recinding of that date was never agreed to by either party. However, FA decided that they might extort a few more ISK out of us by making us pay to leave. I think Baun's own words at the head of this thread sum it up nicely - "which is better than you deserve". Some of you in FA wonder why we're unhappy about that, well how would you feel? Jazz will joining with others attacking FA, we're not quite the "soft touch" that you thought we were.
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.29 03:08:00 - [99] Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 29/01/2005 03:12:56 Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki ATUK SPONSORED Quite correct and had we been left to leave in peace that would have been the end of the issue as we were moving to ATUK space, and far away from FA space.
EVENFLOW	Posted - 2005.01.29 03:18:00 - [100] Awaits fireworks known as "ships lost in space" to appear on the map... /emote Continues to wander eve until the dust settles.
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.29 03:21:00 - [101] Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki I'll close this post with the following excerpt from the JAZZ corp description: ATUK SPONSORED Oh FA were scared of ATUK Thats why they wanted Jazz out pronto. But you'd imagine they wouldn't want to upset Jazz incase ATUK were offended ? We all know how quickly FA wanted to make a deal with BoB when they came to FA core and killed everything that moved. Whatever FA used over BoB to get a ceasefire that day worked wonders, but it left a lot of pee'd off FA members who had lost their ships and were not allowed to engage BoB to get revenge. Did FA pay to replace their ships out of their multi billion isk wallet ? Not a chance in hell. And when BoB posted on this forum threathening to pay FA a visit again, FA leaders were very scared (and probably paid them off again). I have no problems with BoB, they achieved an excellent victory over FA that day, that operation was tactically brilliant, even though I lost a Raven
EL TITAN	Posted - 2005.01.29 04:16:00 - [102] FA is making alot of enemies hee ;\ _________________________________________________ <3 hi
Baun	Posted - 2005.01.29 04:25:00 - [103] Originally by: EVENFLOW Awaits fireworks known as "ships lost in space" to appear on the map... /emote Continues to wander eve until the dust settles. Hi even <3 The Enemy's Gate is Down
Lady Salvation	Posted - 2005.01.29 07:06:00 - [104] Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 29/01/2005 03:12:56 Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki ATUK SPONSORED Quite correct and had we been left to leave in peace that would have been the end of the issue as we were moving to ATUK space, and far away from FA space. thats so full of bullsh1te. you leave us in peace an are running to the enemy... .. leaving peacefully is 1 thing, but: 1.)[artw] leaves jazz and attacks FA-pilots in FA-space and RANDOM targets in aridia... 2.)JAZZ is sponsred by ATUK!!! (we're @ war actually) So you turned your back against former friends... Maybe that is all coincidence. Maybe you find someone who believes that. I for myself don't do that. Sorry, but i call that backstabbing and treachery @ its best.. and it saddens me that all that happended, really. i had the highest respect for most of the jazz, now artw pilots
BlackMatrix	Posted - 2005.01.29 08:28:00 - [105] Originally by: Lady Salvation thats so full of bullsh1te. you leave us in peace an are running to the enemy... .. leaving peacefully is 1 thing, but: 1.)[artw] leaves jazz and attacks FA-pilots in FA-space and RANDOM targets in aridia... 2.)JAZZ is sponsred by ATUK!!! (we're @ war actually) As you said the ARTW attacked FA not Jazz. So I wish people would stop bringing our previous colleagues into this argument. The whole thread is actually about FA not honouring the fact that we decided we wanted something new. ATUK has shown Jazz a lot more support and friendship to Jazz than the FA ever has IMO. Its also a shame you had to post with a alt for fear of FA backlash CEO -BMC-
Padovar Adandur	Posted - 2005.01.29 08:45:00 - [106] Ah well, the good thing about ex-members is, that they are not members anymore.. _______________
Martin duPorres	Posted - 2005.01.29 08:53:00 - [107] Fountain in like Communism. Its not if, its when its gonna fail.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.01.29 08:58:00 - [108] Originally by: Martin duPorres Fountain in like Communism. Its not if, its when its gonna fail. Such a poor comparison. Particularly when "true" communism has never been tried, but hey ho, be happy in your ignorance.
Lallante	Posted - 2005.01.29 08:59:00 - [109] Quote: Go ask Shinra where we are to be found, they should know ROFL your PROUD of your 17 : 123 record against us? WTF? FA Emergency Council: AKA "Oh ** Guys its Gonna Blow" Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa**
qrac	Posted - 2005.01.29 10:14:00 - [110] Edited by: qrac on 29/01/2005 10:16:29 dear former and current jazz members... look at s-44, they also left yet there were no incidents involving them and if there would be i'm positive they would contact an fa representative to solve the issue instead of crying like babies on the forums about how fa mistreated u to portray us as the badguys, when in fact u went to bed with the enemy while still being fa members. ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
EVENFLOW	Posted - 2005.01.29 10:19:00 - [111] Originally by: qrac dear former and current jazz members... look at s-44, they also left yet there were no incidents involving them and if there would be i'm positive they would contact an fa representative to solve the issue. But your corp didn't get attacked while leaving... (and i'm neutral and don't really care atm.)
Vvari	Posted - 2005.01.29 11:02:00 - [112] yay, I wasnt aware of this. And down Fountain shall go. --------------------------- new sig under construction
qrac	Posted - 2005.01.29 11:06:00 - [113] Originally by: EVENFLOW Originally by: qrac dear former and current jazz members... look at s-44, they also left yet there were no incidents involving them and if there would be i'm positive they would contact an fa representative to solve the issue. But your corp didn't get attacked while leaving... (and i'm neutral and don't really care atm.) point=? ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
Mad Bomber	Posted - 2005.01.29 11:15:00 - [114] Keep digging FA
Squelch	Posted - 2005.01.29 11:30:00 - [115] Gah, what a messy thread I think it's safe to say that mistakes have been made regarding this issue and that those mistakes have caused more to follow from both sides. Add to that the personal feelings of the pilots from all corporations involved and we're left with this mess. From a personal viewpoint I have nothing but respect for the Jazz members that I had dealings with in Fountain. They made this game more enjoyable and I learned a great deal from them.
EVENFLOW	Posted - 2005.01.29 11:41:00 - [116] Edited by: EVENFLOW on 29/01/2005 11:43:27 Edited by: EVENFLOW on 29/01/2005 11:41:47 Originally by: qrac Edited by: qrac on 29/01/2005 10:16:29 dear former and current jazz members... look at s-44, they also left yet there were no incidents involving them and if there would be i'm positive they would contact an fa representative to solve the issue instead of crying like babies on the forums about how fa mistreated u to portray us as the badguys, when in fact u went to bed with the enemy while still being fa members. I repeat, you didn't get attacked while leaving. So jazz asked for 24hrs, if you were good friends, if push came to shove, wouldn't you give them more?
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.29 11:57:00 - [117] hi squelch. A lot has happened over the months within FA and i/we took a lot of rubbish from FA command. Let me remind you of the time BIG took Tpar station off Jazz. [ 2004.11.20 00:00:00 ] TornSoul > plagues - whats the problme? [ 2004.11.20 00:00:39 ] Plagues > its time you stopped pushing your weight around [ 2004.11.20 00:00:49 ] Plagues > an alliance should be for all [ 2004.11.20 00:01:58 ] TornSoul > plag im not pushign any fekkign weight around [ 2004.11.20 00:02:06 ] TornSoul > im doign what all stationowners have done in the past as well [ 2004.11.20 00:02:31 ] Plagues > well its time for a change [ 2004.11.20 00:02:41 ] Plagues > you had too much free reign [ 2004.11.20 00:03:15 ] TornSoul > too much free reign???? [ 2004.11.20 00:03:20 ] TornSoul > wtf are you on about plag..... [ 2004.11.20 00:10:54 ] TornSoul > So what are you sayign plag? That the station suddenly belongs to Jazz ? [ 2004.11.20 00:11:12 ] Plagues > yes we defended it we took it [ 2004.11.20 00:11:23 ] Plagues > we been here for weeks killing 2004.11.20 00:11:38 ] Plagues > how many hrs have big put into this area ? [ 2004.11.20 00:11:38 ] TornSoul > As have i done numerous times as well plag... TS u obviously made a mistake tonight and told me so earlier u didnt realize that it would cause suck a problem and in interest of FA peace will allow JAzz to reclaim [ 2004.11.20 00:21:12 ] TornSoul > ill say yes if this can cool down jazz - But I sure as hell dont like or approve of it [ 2004.11.20 00:23:17 ] Plagues > ill chill but if anything else like that happens again ill not sit back and take it [ 2004.11.20 00:23:45 ] TornSoul > plag wtf are you saying [ 2004.11.20 00:23:47 ] TornSoul > you want a war? [ 2004.11.20 00:23:49 ] TornSoul > then say so [ 2004.11.20 00:23:52 ] TornSoul > dont give me this BS [ 2004.11.20 00:24:18 ] Plagues > if you want a war then go ahead [ 2004.11.20 00:24:19 ] TornSoul > ive had it [ 2004.11.20 00:24:37 ] TornSoul > C ya plagues I removed the 3rd persons identity to save any hassle for him but those are the things FA corps have to put up with,if TS dont like it thats what happens^^ anyone wants full log just ask and ill send it but its time FA sorted there selves out. and yes guys i kept all logs referring to lots of things from FA like the corps that wanted to revolt a while back etc and the meeting we had to try stop this happening you all know who you are so dont give me any bs here with how dedicated you are to FA and how much you will defend the region, its only a few months back when you wanted a change of management yourselves. now im doing what we should of done then and im not affraid to say it. DOWN with FA
qrac	Posted - 2005.01.29 12:05:00 - [118] Originally by: EVENFLOW Edited by: EVENFLOW on 29/01/2005 11:43:27 Edited by: EVENFLOW on 29/01/2005 11:41:47 Originally by: qrac Edited by: qrac on 29/01/2005 10:16:29 dear former and current jazz members... look at s-44, they also left yet there were no incidents involving them and if there would be i'm positive they would contact an fa representative to solve the issue instead of crying like babies on the forums about how fa mistreated u to portray us as the badguys, when in fact u went to bed with the enemy while still being fa members. I repeat, you didn't get attacked while leaving. So jazz asked for 24hrs, if you were good friends, if push came to shove, wouldn't you give them more? i never left... jazz asked for 24 hours... they got 48 hours and even with them being sponsored by atuk they were treated as neutrals. the pilot in question then got killed after 48 hours because of not abiding to fa rules which he should know very well. ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
qrac	Posted - 2005.01.29 12:15:00 - [119] hey plagues... yesterday we were xanadu's puppets and now we're tornsoul's slaves. what will we become tomorrow? maybe rubra wannabes like u ;) ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
StoreSlem	Posted - 2005.01.29 13:11:00 - [120] Edited by: StoreSlem on 29/01/2005 13:13:24 Originally by: thelung187 4. In response to IA's post: A. No feeding was needed, anyone who spent time in FA fleets clearly saw a lack of participation by Xan/BIG in any sort of fleet operations, in comparison with other corps and their involvement. Nobody can deny that <staring right at IA> Xanadu always was a pvp heavy corp and have always participated in military operations. While core defence might have been so-so, xanadu pilots were always out fighting in curse or elsewhere. Even after nearly all our pvpr's quit in the space of a few days we had small gangs continue pvping. Currently Xanadu is making a presence in PB. Originally by: Lallante Quote: Go ask Shinra where we are to be found, they should know ROFL your PROUD of your 17 : 123 record against us? WTF? FA Emergency Council: AKA "Oh **** Guys its Gonna Blow" Feel free to go around trumphing your 1 corp statistics, but be sure for Xanadu they are no worse. 1 bs 1 cr 1 fr loss for the last couple of weeks, 15~20 bs kills.
Plagues	Posted - 2005.01.29 14:16:00 - [121] Originally by: qrac hey plagues... yesterday we were xanadu's puppets and now we're tornsoul's slaves. what will we become tomorrow? maybe rubra wannabes like u ;) Maybe docked or SS in core :)
Nathan Voughn	Posted - 2005.01.29 14:50:00 - [122] Originally by: Lallante Quote: Go ask Shinra where we are to be found, they should know ROFL your PROUD of your 17 : 123 record against us? WTF? FA Emergency Council: AKA "Oh **** Guys its Gonna Blow" Contrary to you i am not the one bragging. or is there any word in my statement that makes you think otherwise?
Afsar	Posted - 2005.01.29 14:53:00 - [123] Interesting, still noone commented Fountain market rules violation by leaving Jazz members. They put a lot of ships for sale while still being part of Alliance, directly helping logon/logoff Atuk dolls and other hostiles in Core. Other thing noone mentioned, quite a lot of Jazz members did stay in alliance and joined other corporation. So awaiting of comment from Jazz (or what left of it) leaders on these two points.
Noemie	Posted - 2005.01.29 14:53:00 - [124] Originally by: Plagues hi squelch. A lot has happened over the months within FA and i/we took a lot of rubbish from FA command. Let me remind you of the time BIG took Tpar station off Jazz. [ 2004.11.20 00:00:00 ] TornSoul > plagues - whats the problme? [ 2004.11.20 00:00:39 ] Plagues > its time you stopped pushing your weight around [ 2004.11.20 00:00:49 ] Plagues > an alliance should be for all [ 2004.11.20 00:01:58 ] TornSoul > plag im not pushign any fekkign weight around [ 2004.11.20 00:02:06 ] TornSoul > im doign what all stationowners have done in the past as well [ 2004.11.20 00:02:31 ] Plagues > well its time for a change [ 2004.11.20 00:02:41 ] Plagues > you had too much free reign [ 2004.11.20 00:03:15 ] TornSoul > too much free reign???? [ 2004.11.20 00:03:20 ] TornSoul > wtf are you on about plag..... [ 2004.11.20 00:10:54 ] TornSoul > So what are you sayign plag? That the station suddenly belongs to Jazz ? [ 2004.11.20 00:11:12 ] Plagues > yes we defended it we took it [ 2004.11.20 00:11:23 ] Plagues > we been here for weeks killing 2004.11.20 00:11:38 ] Plagues > how many hrs have big put into this area ? [ 2004.11.20 00:11:38 ] TornSoul > As have i done numerous times as well plag... TS u obviously made a mistake tonight and told me so earlier u didnt realize that it would cause suck a problem and in interest of FA peace will allow JAzz to reclaim [ 2004.11.20 00:21:12 ] TornSoul > ill say yes if this can cool down jazz - But I sure as hell dont like or approve of it [ 2004.11.20 00:23:17 ] Plagues > ill chill but if anything else like that happens again ill not sit back and take it [ 2004.11.20 00:23:45 ] TornSoul > plag wtf are you saying [ 2004.11.20 00:23:47 ] TornSoul > you want a war? [ 2004.11.20 00:23:49 ] TornSoul > then say so [ 2004.11.20 00:23:52 ] TornSoul > dont give me this BS [ 2004.11.20 00:24:18 ] Plagues > if you want a war then go ahead [ 2004.11.20 00:24:19 ] TornSoul > ive had it [ 2004.11.20 00:24:37 ] TornSoul > C ya plagues OMG plagues, you sound like thoses silly CEO who come around without warning and say: GIVE US STUFF OR BE KILLED! LAST WARNING! OMGLEETBLUFFHAX0R Has you said yourself... Plagues > an alliance should be for all not just for JAZZ Big is a merly a shadow corp for FA purpose IMO. There's roughly 5 active player in it and i see them has the corp who do the paperwork while we do the work! I wonder if Torn have given TPAR to jazz... would you still be part of FA or would have made a pact with Shinra, Xetic or Stain to gain control of PBL? You know, for a moment i tought there was something wrong in FA... finally i'm seeing that some ppl get power hungry and forget the real meaning of ALLIANCE -------
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.01.29 16:20:00 - [125] Originally by: Afsar Interesting, still noone commented Fountain market rules violation by leaving Jazz members. They put a lot of ships for sale while still being part of Alliance, directly helping logon/logoff Atuk dolls and other hostiles in Core. Other thing noone mentioned, quite a lot of Jazz members did stay in alliance and joined other corporation. So awaiting of comment from Jazz (or what left of it) leaders on these two points. I already did if you bothered to read the thread, and stop hiding behind an alt. Jazz were leaving by midnight TONIGHT, this date was never recinded, we only agreed to try to speed up the procees. What was Jazz members supposed to do with their ships as they were being shot at.
Kraich	Posted - 2005.01.29 17:25:00 - [126] Dont know about politics.. Megathron got cap issues.. FinFleet is recruiting atm.. Will WOW kill alliances? Ice Ice baby.. Whatever going to happend, I still wont sell my blue pills.. things are getting interesting..
Kell Sendaka	Posted - 2005.01.29 19:35:00 - [127] Originally by: Afsar So awaiting of comment from Jazz (or what left of it) leaders on these two points. hehe, I think we had more interest since we left, but the fa alt has spoken so we are doomed. Now since we cant move ships out without the threat of attack then we sell them or we can just give them to "ATUK dolls" for nothing if you want?
Vince Draken	Posted - 2005.01.29 19:37:00 - [128] Originally by: StoreSlem Edited by: StoreSlem on 29/01/2005 13:13:24 Originally by: thelung187 4. In response to IA's post: A. No feeding was needed, anyone who spent time in FA fleets clearly saw a lack of participation by Xan/BIG in any sort of fleet operations, in comparison with other corps and their involvement. Nobody can deny that <staring right at IA> Xanadu always was a pvp heavy corp and have always participated in military operations. While core defence might have been so-so, xanadu pilots were always out fighting in curse or elsewhere. Even after nearly all our pvpr's quit in the space of a few days we had small gangs continue pvping. Currently Xanadu is making a presence in PB. Originally by: Lallante Quote: Go ask Shinra where we are to be found, they should know ROFL your PROUD of your 17 : 123 record against us? WTF? FA Emergency Council: AKA "Oh **** Guys its Gonna Blow" Feel free to go around trumphing your 1 corp statistics, but be sure for Xanadu they are no worse. 1 bs 1 cr 1 fr loss for the last couple of weeks, 15~20 bs kills. Reality check time: Xanadu was far too cowardly to attack Curse proper. You prefered to go shoot some miners in Cache. You also failed at that.
Vince Draken	Posted - 2005.01.29 19:39:00 - [129] Originally by: Afsar Interesting, still noone commented Fountain market rules violation by leaving Jazz members. They put a lot of ships for sale while still being part of Alliance, directly helping logon/logoff Atuk dolls and other hostiles in Core. Other thing noone mentioned, quite a lot of Jazz members did stay in alliance and joined other corporation. So awaiting of comment from Jazz (or what left of it) leaders on these two points. LOL, you should see our corp hangers out there. You guys have been selling stuff for a long time. Oh whoops, I said too mcuh.
Ryoma	Posted - 2005.01.30 05:16:00 - [130] The NFA way has been to back stab. Nothing new. It is just Jazz's turn to find out. Welcome to the Anti-FA fold.
amego	Posted - 2005.01.30 21:44:00 - [131] its a pleasure to be among friends ryoma
kanix357	Posted - 2005.01.31 00:59:00 - [132] Oh you cry about us selling our ships in FA space, How bout these few things. First thing i noticed was this about BIG the FA leaders. I have never seen tornsoul or his compadres in any fleet battle or lOCAL SYSTEM IN MONTHS. I dont think ive ever seen him in the same system as us. But yet all of FA takes his ***. So many members of FA overprice ships and sell them to there alliance regardless of the rules. I had to buy a iteron 5 for 10 million lol, and then when i contacted that person he told me to get lost lol( fa member that is) Who is in charge of this alliance? Awnser that, and why is this person in charge, not you. Do you think its fair, or are you just gonna suck his thorax a bit more. Baun we had till sunday to move our ship's out, you guys took back ur word on us. not 24 and 48 hour's. You cant lead or count. You should be happy we left our ships for sale there in fountain space, because now ur loosing ships. And you can just buy the ones from us. Isnt that thoughtfull.
Insane Angel	Posted - 2005.01.31 04:29:00 - [133] Im the court-jester.. er..leader of the Fountain Alliance, I am the almighty behind all decisions. I am ..well.... Did you know the human head weighs 8 pounds, more or less.... and no not English pounds but the US weight system.
TornSoul	Posted - 2005.01.31 04:56:00 - [134] Edited by: TornSoul on 31/01/2005 04:57:36 Originally by: kanix357 I have never seen tornsoul or his compadres in any fleet battle or lOCAL SYSTEM IN MONTHS. I dont think ive ever seen him in the same system as us. But yet all of FA takes his **. Guess you dont get around much. Thats cool. Try asking around down PB way (Shinra should be a good source these days). BIG has/had/has/had/has/had... (it changes so often) a station down there. Guess where I/we hang out mostly... Such anger... BIG Lottery** [u
Detaitiv	Posted - 2005.01.31 06:18:00 - [135] Quote: I have never seen tornsoul or his compadres in any fleet battle or lOCAL SYSTEM IN MONTHS. I used to live in CA space when there was a CA. Sorry about that. I guess I should learn to farm rats so I can spend more time at home.
amego	Posted - 2005.01.31 11:28:00 - [136] this topic is going so well i thought i might throw this into the mix :) FA uber set ups: incursus...hi slots empty, mid slots mwd I roid scanner cap charger II, low slots cap relay x 2 ........NICE FA uber set ups: rupture...hi slots 1 remote armour repairer, mid slots 10mn abs I 2 x large cap batteries, low slots 4 x cap relay and a kinetic armour hardener....GREAT these are for real, repossesed ships from YRNJ just before downtime and right under the nose of the corp that owned them And the pilots name....BIBI of [HIRR] GOOD JOB BIBI keep up the good work as fountain needs you and thanks for the cap charger II the eutectic in the cargo not to mention the other bits and bobs.........i love scan probes maybe tornsoul can help you with a set up, goodness knows he's been docked long enuff to have it all figured out
StellarSheep	Posted - 2005.01.31 11:50:00 - [137] Lo ;) About lack of presence BIG members in fleet battles ... It was because we never like nice called "Fleet Battles" We fight mostly alone or together with New Hope Unlimited and we done well. So plz dont say nothing more about that BIG was not active. Was not active only in FA gangs. ________________________________________________ StellarSheep Fury Corporation member
Anna Sheridan	Posted - 2005.01.31 12:21:00 - [138] Originally by: amego this topic is going so well i thought i might throw this into the mix :) FA uber set ups: incursus...hi slots empty, mid slots mwd I roid scanner cap charger II, low slots cap relay x 2 ........NICE FA uber set ups: rupture...hi slots 1 remote armour repairer, mid slots 10mn abs I 2 x large cap batteries, low slots 4 x cap relay and a kinetic armour hardener....GREAT these are for real, repossesed ships from YRNJ just before downtime and right under the nose of the corp that owned them And the pilots name....BIBI of [HIRR] GOOD JOB BIBI keep up the good work as fountain needs you and thanks for the cap charger II the eutectic in the cargo not to mention the other bits and bobs.........i love scan probes maybe tornsoul can help you with a set up, goodness knows he's been docked long enuff to have it all figured out Oh well, those are screwed setups for sure, but then if you look at the Atuk killboard, you'll see that they downed a Rubra Prophecy that had fitted 1 med shield booster, 2 shield hardeners, 1 med armor repairer II and no armor hardener at all. Not exactly a bright fitting either.
Rift Scorn	Posted - 2005.01.31 12:25:00 - [139] Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 31/01/2005 04:57:36 Originally by: kanix357 I have never seen tornsoul or his compadres in any fleet battle or lOCAL SYSTEM IN MONTHS. I dont think ive ever seen him in the same system as us. But yet all of FA takes his **. Guess you dont get around much. Thats cool. Try asking around down PB way (Shinra should be a good source these days). BIG** has/had/has/had/has/had... (it changes so often) a station down there. Guess where I/we hang out mostly... Such anger... The first time i saw Tornsoul in TPAR- was when Kr0m were down in Period basis, and the fleet i commanded was busy podding him. The second time i saw Tornsoul down there was after the battle had already happened (they out blobbed as ever), and he swans into local and states 'EVERYONE CLEAR LOCAL!' - this of course after he hid behind his fleet and did precisly squat until other FA pilots had died. Jazz i have fought not only in TPAR- but when they came up north for a week or two arounf EC-P area. I'm glad you guys see what FA is really like and decided to leave. I've noticed a more seasoned member of S-44 in a different corp now as well, looks like a few of the more hardcore FA PvPers are on their way out.....
Darial	Posted - 2005.01.31 12:55:00 - [140] Originally by: TornSoul Try asking around down PB way (Shinra should be a good source these days). BIG has/had/has/had/has/had... (it changes so often) a station down there. Guess where I/we hang out mostly... Your like SmÚagol with his precious ring, except yours is a station in TPAR. MY PRECIOUS !!
thelung187	Posted - 2005.01.31 19:37:00 - [141] Originally by: StellarSheep Lo ;) About lack of presence BIG members in fleet battles ... It was because we never like nice called "Fleet Battles" We fight mostly alone or together with New Hope Unlimited and we done well. So plz dont say nothing more about that BIG was not active. Was not active only in FA gangs. We can only hope now that every FA corp will adopt this mentality, of "do for ourselves, but command the community." If this is the case, explain to me why it is then that Tornsoul is the one making the final decisions? Does no one else in FA see a problem with this? [ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or something
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.31 21:18:00 - [142] In two parts because the forums blow mighty chunks when you try to post too much at once. Part 1: Originally by: Darial 1. Why should a former Fountain Alliance member be forced to pay a fine/passport to leave the region ? They won't be mining or hunting npc's on their way out. Who said you had to pay for an exit passport? Originally by: Darial Is it not FA policy to allow a stranger to Fountain to leave your space without paying for a passport and without being attacked ? I know this from personal experience, because I was told on numerous occasions that we are not allowed to engage them unless they remain in FA space without buying a passport. That is our policy, unless that "stranger" isn't a stranger. That is, if they have been warned in the past, put on the KOS list, or if they engage in hostilities while mucking about the Fountain region. You and I have heard the same thing, pardon me, but I'm not sure the point of this paragraph? Originally by: Darial 2. I know for a fact that anyone in FA space that is not in an FA corp would be allowed to travel safely by ARTW and Rubra, and probably ATUK and others too, especially a Jazz member (since Jazz are no longer an FA corp). So don't try use that as an excuse for attacking ex-Alliance collegues trying to get their stuff out of your claimed space. I didn't use it as an excuse. I said that you guys were "damned if you do, damned if you don't." If you negotiated with us, you would have been attacked. I in local when Jazz pilots (and others) were yelling "don't shoot, don't shoot, we're abandoning Fountain." And the hostiles to Fountain region got quite a chuckle at those who ran with their tail between their legs. Quote: 3. All this talk of deadlines, 24 hours, 48 hours etc... Percivs, you said (I quote) "Heck, I've personally arranged for passports for people attempting to exit the region whose corp received even less time to exit the region than Jazz has been given.". What was the corp name ? Mephorios [STRTK], Star Tech Enterprises. While discussing internal alliance business is something I am loath to do. The bottom line is this: Their sponsor quit Eve. It was **ty of him to do so before they were made full members, but it happened. No point whining about it now. Plagues offered to sponsor them if they would come to TPAR and help in its defense, a very reasonable request. However, for several reason that were personal, including the loss of their leadership to WoW, they chose to decline Plague's offer of sponsorship. When Mephorios returned from Wow, logged on to find out that his corp was no longer welcome in Fountain. We arranged his exit, peaceably. The same could be done for any of Jazz's or ARTW's pilots if they had tried to negotiate it with people still in the alliance**. TBH, at this point, I don't see people saying that you attempted to exit peaceably or with grace. I don't even see you claiming it here. [cont...] --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.31 21:18:00 - [143] [...cont] Part 2: Originally by: Darius Even back in the days of the coup d'Útat when corps like CORM, LLC and CME were kicked out of the Fountain Alliance, when FA produced logs of CORM hiring mercs to attack an FA corp (sound familiar ?), even then those corps were allowed one week to get their stuff and members out of fountain space (this was after some members of those corps were openly attacked for undocking). So why was Jazz not given the "normal" time period for leaving Fountain space ? Can't answer that, I don't know. I only know that you weren't put on KOS until after hostilities started. TBH, I don't even know who started the hostilities. But I do have a conversation with someone in ARTW prior to the hostilities starting between ARTW and Fountain Alliance. And that pilot specifically had a chip on his shoulder and told me that as much as he liked me out of game, that if I ever saw him, I had better shoot first and ask questions later. I don't understand why you would burn your bridges with the decent people in Fountain to make your point, but you have, and you are burning those bridges. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Amos Sommers	Posted - 2005.01.31 21:24:00 - [144] Hmm After an hour and twenty mintues I managed to get through all of this topic. While I've been member of FA for a short time (couple months?) I've never experienced any of the things mentioned here.. I guess I'm just a small fish, but then again, I usually spend time trying to help out in defense of FA space. It is my own opinion that FA should drop Delve, we dont need it, and it is taking our resources, hand it over to someone more capable. I'm sorry to see so much hostiality towards FA, I really enjoy being part of this Alliance. Member of The Predators Corporation
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.31 21:32:00 - [145] Originally by: Afsar Interesting, still noone commented Fountain market rules violation by leaving Jazz members. They put a lot of ships for sale while still being part of Alliance, directly helping logon/logoff Atuk dolls and other hostiles in Core. Other thing noone mentioned, quite a lot of Jazz members did stay in alliance and joined other corporation. So awaiting of comment from Jazz (or what left of it) leaders on these two points. I omitted mentioning this only because it muddies the waters and makes Fountain look petty to bring it up. So, let me say to you, you who cannot put your name or corporation on the line to complain about something that is a smaller issue than the ill will that currently exists between Jazz/Art of War and it's former Alliance. STFU. We don't need more hard feelings or explosive attitudes. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.01.31 21:46:00 - [146] Originally by: kanix357 Oh you cry about us selling our ships in FA space, How bout these few things. First thing i noticed was this about BIG the FA leaders. I have never seen tornsoul or his compadres in any fleet battle or lOCAL SYSTEM IN MONTHS. I dont think ive ever seen him in the same system as us. But yet all of FA takes his ***. So many members of FA overprice ships and sell them to there alliance regardless of the rules. I had to buy a iteron 5 for 10 million lol, and then when i contacted that person he told me to get lost lol( fa member that is). . . Then the proper next step was to contact that pilot's CEO. And if you had visited the Fountain Alliance forums, you would know that. It would have been dealt with internally. Do you expect people to feel sorry for you because a game bug causes your ship to be destroyed and you could petition, but you don't? This is the same kind of scenario. You had a recourse, you didn't take it. I'm not sure why, but complaining about it now is unreasonable, imho. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.02.01 01:44:00 - [147] I am given to understand from sources currently within FA that Baun actually wanted Jazz KOS'd within 24 hours. The point though is why should Jazz bother to leave? FA are under attack from all side, BoB, Rubra, Shinra, ARTW and others, we didn't need to leave the area If we had chosen to betray FA, we just had to wait for the opportune moment to strike. It's much easier to fight when a large part of your production base and stockpiles are in the enemies territory. We can also blob as well at need, so maintaining production would have difficult but by no means impossible. All we had to do was join in with the other attacking forces at the right time. However we didn't! Instead we tried to leave and FA through spite or paranoia decided otherwise.
Awalance	Posted - 2005.02.01 02:16:00 - [148] can i buy a pass from FA?? my pass expierd ------------------------ after you die ,and all peoples who knows you die also ..its like you never exist
Insane Angel	Posted - 2005.02.01 07:55:00 - [149] Originally by: Awalance can i buy a pass from FA?? my pass expierd OFC, contact me ingame and we will work something out :P
Kell Sendaka	Posted - 2005.02.01 09:24:00 - [150] Originally by: Percivs [...cont] Part 2: Can't answer that, I don't know. I only know that you weren't put on KOS until after hostilities started. TBH, I don't even know who started the hostilities. ARTW blah blah You seem to be a level headed chap and your answers dont look to be full of vitriol which is nice to see. Its just if you dont know who kicked off why do you assume we are in the wrong? I know for certain that if Fountain Alliance had the capability to differentiate between two different corps and had not fired on our indys while exiting your space we would be gone by now and we would still be civil to each other. Other than that this thread is redundant as we are not going to agree are we? We know what happened and we know what will happen, just enjoy yourselves because we will.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.01 19:46:00 - [151] Originally by: Dyvim Slorm I am given to understand from sources currently within FA that Baun actually wanted Jazz KOS'd within 24 hours. The point though is why should Jazz bother to leave? FA are under attack from all side, BoB, Rubra, Shinra, ARTW and others, we didn't need to leave the area If we had chosen to betray FA, we just had to wait for the opportune moment to strike. It's much easier to fight when a large part of your production base and stockpiles are in the enemies territory. We can also blob as well at need, so maintaining production would have difficult but by no means impossible. All we had to do was join in with the other attacking forces at the right time. However we didn't! Instead we tried to leave and FA through spite or paranoia decided otherwise. Paranoia perhaps. And many in Fountain Alliance are only now hardened to the course of action you yourself have chosen because of your response to a misunderstanding. Need I quote the thread where a Jazz director THANKED someone from CSUP (Colsup) for straightening out an earlier mis-understanding? Despite that previous mis-understanding, the FC's and HC's in Fountain URGED pilots not to aggress against Jazz. When Jazz pilots started flaunting the rules that Jazz used to defend (and therefore cannot claim ignorance of), that is when the KOS started. Whether you break those rules because you imagine that Fountain made a decision to strike first, let me assure you, there has never been an official decree that Jazz was KOS except in response to your aggression towards us. Even today, pilots still ask in the military channel "Are you sure Jazz is KOS?" To which we must repeatedly tell them that yes you are. I wish it were otherwise, but Fountain Alliance cannot spend it's time trying to negotiate peace while you invade space you willingly left, and violate the rules that you used to uphold. And further, I am a member of EVEM. I fly with Baun. Your rumor mongering does no justice to your side of this. You don't KNOW what he said, and I am here to tell you it is not true. Baun did not want Jazz in Fountain space, but he certainly did not advocate in the private of EVEM channels or in any alliance channel for Jazz to be KOS. (I'll be fair and say I don't know what he said in the High Command forums, but I doubt he has any reason to tell me one story and the High Commanders another. You may think he eats babies and howls at the full moon, but I can tell you that he is a decent person to his friends.) If he thinks you should be KOS now, it is only because of the escalating hostilities. You might recall that everyone in Fountain was advised that Jazz was not KOS. That internal communication was posted on page 4. That was only 1 week ago, and hostilities have gone full tilt with both the forum and in-game flaming and warring. We used to be friends, and out of respect for that former friendship, we would be better served to find a less vitriolic response. If you wish to hunt and fight Fountain, fine, but let's keep it friendly. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.01 20:05:00 - [152] Originally by: Kell Sendaka Originally by: Percivs [...cont] Part 2: Can't answer that, I don't know. I only know that you weren't put on KOS until after hostilities started. TBH, I don't even know who started the hostilities. ARTW blah blah You seem to be a level headed chap and your answers dont look to be full of vitriol which is nice to see. Its just if you dont know who kicked off why do you assume we are in the wrong? I know for certain that if Fountain Alliance had the capability to differentiate between two different corps and had not fired on our indys while exiting your space we would be gone by now and we would still be civil to each other. Other than that this thread is redundant as we are not going to agree are we? We know what happened and we know what will happen, just enjoy yourselves because we will. Why do I know? Because I read the military channel, and unless they're all lying in it, they're saying your bringing warships IN, not out. Maybe you're running escorts for your indies. TBH, I don't know. But if you are, certainly there are better ways to do it than to come unannounced under the present circumstances. How could we not take that as aggressive? (While I doubt we attacked indy's first, if you have any evidence that an indy was the first Jazz ship to be attacked, please contact me in game and I will address it to the HC and the CEO of the attacking corp. Fountain Alliance does have honor.) However, what I said earlier in this thread stands. If you had wanted a more peaceful exit, you certainly could have ASKED for a passport (and please no more "pay to exit" BS, it's already been discussed here, payment would not have been absolutely necessary. Maybe demanded by some, but not necessary), and I'm certain that there are some who would have offered a passport to you. Why am I certain? Because I would have run escort myself and worked out passports to try to maintain good relations. I know there are others who feel betrayed by your decision to side with ATUK and attack your former home, and I feel certain that had you asked them for assistance in exiting prior to hostilities, those who now feel betrayed would have rendered any reasonable assistance they could. Many now feel that what time we did give you to exit peacefully was a mistake because you have joined our enemies, so the less level headed on our side who helped (they certainly didn't do it alone) start this conflict with Jazz are seen as right. They who you have an arguement with are now vindicated in their aggression against you because rather than trying to be level-headed yourself, you retaliate. Rather than diplomacy, which our months of brotherhood would seem to ask for... which you have said that we, Fountain Alliance owed you for your service... you have not given back to us that level headed response. If you would wish diplomacy, I think it is now your turn to make the next attempt. If you would wish war, I think our pilots are well prepared. Fountain Alliance has not yet issued any official policy to seek Jazz out, but should you bring the fight to our front door, we will do as you have done for many months at our side, we shall defend our home. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
L4dY1nP1nK	Posted - 2005.02.01 23:54:00 - [153] BAUN U KNOW WHAT U ARE ......... U MAKE YOUR OWN ALLY MEMBERS TO TRAITORS I SPIT ON .....AND I HOPE THESE RUBRA PIRAT NOOBS AND- ATUK-SHINRA-VOTF WILL DESTROY YOUR IGNORANT ALLIANCE REGARDS....... me
HeadHunta II	Posted - 2005.02.02 01:20:00 - [154] Edited by: HeadHunta II on 02/02/2005 01:29:14 Originally by: Plagues Edited by: Plagues on 28/01/2005 11:52:27 Hi. I think its about time a said something too. As ex Fleet Commander for FA and ex Jazz member i know a lot of the rubbish that went on in Fountain the back stabbing etc etc. Now i think its time FA had a change of ownership cos you cant keep stabbing peeps in the back and doing what the hell you like. FA Do not assist their allies unless the pressure is on to do so and they only do that to make the forums look good for themselves, having FA on your doorstep is not a good thing your only there to protect their boarders whilst FA protect their wallets. Never have i seen such a selfish alliance thats only out to help themselves. There is only a few good FA corps left now and i wish those corps would leave for their own sake untill the dust has settled because i promise you FA is going down and i will not stop putting the pressure on untill the management has changed within that region. A few months back there where talks of a revolution within the ranks of FA and all was kept under the carpet,those corps know who you are and so do i , those corps want to think twice before you start Flaming [ARTW] and attacking Jazz otherwise my selective memory may all come back to me. Now FA peeps either get your act together and change the management structure and they way you do things or lose your home. As For Tornsoul who the hell do you think you are ? "FA does not belong to you" what happened to the coucil? they make the decisions not you or any other single member of FA. Any one that wants to help take FA down mail me ingame Plagues or felony, im sure we can work together in some way, not that we need the help at the moment as [ARTW] and RUBRA are kicking their rear . Plagues Finally the truth comes out. "Get in where u fit in!" "-V- Minister of foreign affairs" "CEO Ascendancy-Inc."
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.02.02 01:26:00 - [155] Originally by: Percivs If you wish to hunt and fight Fountain, fine, but let's keep it friendly. My post above was merely to point out that had Jazz harboured ill will at the time against FA we would have acted very differently. It was in fact myself that thanked FC Robbie publicly for sorting out a couple of accidental shootings against Jazz. The nub of this is that FA unilaterally changed the rules and decided that we should be gone some days earler than agreed and commenced shooting at us. The 24 hour KOS I mentioned came from a reliable source currently within FA (not an alt) btw, so I have no reason at present to disbelieve it. No point rehashing the rest or we'll end up writing a book Anyway, it is rather academic now, things are as they are, but I do thank you for your courtesy in your responses.
EVENFLOW	Posted - 2005.02.02 09:08:00 - [156] Soooooooooooooooooooooo glad i was AFK the past weekend....
Kell Sendaka	Posted - 2005.02.02 09:30:00 - [157] Originally by: Percivs Originally by: Kell Sendaka Originally by: Percivs [...cont] Part 2: Can't answer that, I don't know. I only know that you weren't put on KOS until after hostilities started. TBH, I don't even know who started the hostilities. ARTW blah blah You seem to be a level headed chap and your answers dont look to be full of vitriol which is nice to see. Its just if you dont know who kicked off why do you assume we are in the wrong? I know for certain that if Fountain Alliance had the capability to differentiate between two different corps and had not fired on our indys while exiting your space we would be gone by now and we would still be civil to each other. Other than that this thread is redundant as we are not going to agree are we? We know what happened and we know what will happen, just enjoy yourselves because we will. Why do I know? Because I read the military channel, and unless they're all lying in it, they're saying your bringing warships IN, not out. Maybe you're running escorts for your indies. TBH, I don't know. But if you are, certainly there are better ways to do it than to come unannounced under the present circumstances. How could we not take that as aggressive? (While I doubt we attacked indy's first, if you have any evidence that an indy was the first Jazz ship to be attacked, please contact me in game and I will address it to the HC and the CEO of the attacking corp. Fountain Alliance does have honor.) However, what I said earlier in this thread stands. If you had wanted a more peaceful exit, you certainly could have ASKED for a passport (and please no more "pay to exit" BS, it's already been discussed here, payment would not have been absolutely necessary. Maybe demanded by some, but not necessary), and I'm certain that there are some who would have offered a passport to you. Why am I certain? Because I would have run escort myself and worked out passports to try to maintain good relations. I know there are others who feel betrayed by your decision to side with ATUK and attack your former home, and I feel certain that had you asked them for assistance in exiting prior to hostilities, those who now feel betrayed would have rendered any reasonable assistance they could. Many now feel that what time we did give you to exit peacefully was a mistake because you have joined our enemies, so the less level headed on our side who helped (they certainly didn't do it alone) start this conflict with Jazz are seen as right. They who you have an arguement with are now vindicated in their aggression against you because rather than trying to be level-headed yourself, you retaliate. Rather than diplomacy, which our months of brotherhood would seem to ask for... which you have said that we, Fountain Alliance owed you for your service... you have not given back to us that level headed response. If you would wish diplomacy, I think it is now your turn to make the next attempt. If you would wish war, I think our pilots are well prepared. Fountain Alliance has not yet issued any official policy to seek Jazz out, but should you bring the fight to our front door, we will do as you have done for many months at our side, we shall defend our home. So you do know then you dont know Face it, you are all edgy at the moment and you couldnt wait to get all aggressive. As Dyvim says if we wanted a war with you we would have attacked you from within. I know not all Corps in FA wished us ill will and we still have cordial relations with them. Your changing the rules all the time though, we have a week to leave (as set out in our leaving statement), then we dont. We are treated neutral then we are required to have passports. We get ships down and Robbie sorts it out. We get more ships down and Baun loses the plot. Its a pain to keep repeating events as the old FA spin trys to move the focus to a different argument. I think the real problem here is ARTW are a pain in the backside to you and you dont like seeing ATUK in our Bio. Fair enough, we have established the (new, please dont change them again) ground rules. We have given up hope of constuctive discussions with you, this IS what you wanted after all.
Tyrande	Posted - 2005.02.02 12:58:00 - [158] Originally by: Bacchuss on a lighter note the Great FC Baun's Geddon got absoutley raped this afternoon along with 5 other FA Battle ships and a hand full of frgis/cruisers ect.. with only the loss of 3 ceptors on our side <killmail> Wow, you just killed a ship! You're still all classless backstabbing losers.
Assassin 2	Posted - 2005.02.02 13:59:00 - [159] Edited by: Assassin 2 on 02/02/2005 14:01:00 i do love the "FA" , lol it makes me laugh, they are meant to be an anti-pirate alliance, but when push comes to shove and some poor neutral is tryin to go hunting or do a spot of mining the mighty FA come in and blows them up, 1. what if the neutral cant afford the pass? 2. why cant u just ask them to leave instead of killing them, and in respense to FA shoting Jazz it seems in my view that FA are a lil bit ****ed off with Jazz, so what if they just left you? you should let them have a lot longer than 48 hours, but anyhows rumours have it FA are going to be going up against BoB soon, enjoy
EVENFLOW	Posted - 2005.02.02 14:37:00 - [160] Originally by: Assassin 2 1. what if the neutral cant afford the pass? then they really shouldn't be in 0.0 space imo.
qrac	Posted - 2005.02.02 14:38:00 - [161] Edited by: qrac on 02/02/2005 14:38:56 Originally by: Kell Sendaka So you do know then you dont know Face it, you are all edgy at the moment and you couldnt wait to get all aggressive. As Dyvim says if we wanted a war with you we would have attacked you from within. I know not all Corps in FA wished us ill will and we still have cordial relations with them. Your changing the rules all the time though, we have a week to leave (as set out in our leaving statement), then we dont. We are treated neutral then we are required to have passports. We get ships down and Robbie sorts it out. We get more ships down and Baun loses the plot. Its a pain to keep repeating events as the old FA spin trys to move the focus to a different argument. I think the real problem here is ARTW are a pain in the backside to you and you dont like seeing ATUK in our Bio. Fair enough, we have established the (new, please dont change them again) ground rules. We have given up hope of constuctive discussions with you, this IS what you wanted after all. 1. s-44 left with 8 of their members joining m0o (=our enemies just like atuk) 2. s-44 left without any (afaik) incidents. the difference was that s-44 followed the rules while u broke them several times and yet u still didn't get kos'ed until u broke them some more. we drew the line and u crossed it so many times that we finally had to act. ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
Darial	Posted - 2005.02.02 15:56:00 - [162] Edited by: Darial on 02/02/2005 15:57:37 Originally by: qrac the difference was that s-44 followed the rules while u broke them several times and yet u still didn't get kos'ed until u broke them some more. we drew the line and u crossed it so many times that we finally had to act. What rules did Jazz break ? Thou must leave FA space within 24 hours ? Not a rule that I ever heard of. Thou must not complain when you are shot at ? Never heard of that one either. Thou must accept it when Colsup think they run FA ? Nor that one. Thou mustn't complain about FA on eve forums ? I know FA members are not allowed post on these forums, but Jazz were not FA at the time. Thou must not have anything in your bio or corp description that FA finds offense with ? Thou must not associate with FA enemies, even when you leave the alliance ? Thou must not allow your members to leave your corp and attack FA ? I think you better start attacking Xanadu and a few others if thats the rule Jazz broke.
dabster	Posted - 2005.02.02 18:20:00 - [163] Oh just **** off and get over it already, it's getting tiresome and I cant resists reading. ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's
Xavier Perez	Posted - 2005.02.02 18:28:00 - [164] Come up and join Imperium. We're just next door and not exactly good neighbors. We're the Marilyn Manson-butt Yakuza after all.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.02 19:10:00 - [165] Originally by: Kell Sendaka . . . Your changing the rules all the time though, we have a week to leave (as set out in our leaving statement), then we dont. We are treated neutral then we are required to have passports. We get ships down and Robbie sorts it out. We get more ships down and Baun loses the plot. Its a pain to keep repeating events as the old FA spin trys to move the focus to a different argument. I think the real problem here is ARTW are a pain in the backside to you and you dont like seeing ATUK in our Bio. Fair enough, we have established the (new, please dont change them again) ground rules. We have given up hope of constuctive discussions with you, this IS what you wanted after all. That is rather unfair. First of all, "you" is not me. Maybe you didn't intend it to mean me, maybe you meant all of Fountain. But even all of Fountain is not what you really mean. You mean the management of Fountain. And to that, there are some things I obviously can't argue against, I can only give you my opinion. Unless you have logs or other evidence to dispute my opinion, I intend to keep my opinion. As, no doubt, you intend to keep yours. One of us is wrong, but we should be able to keep it friendly if we're not able to prove it satisfactorily to each other who is. Second, "neutrals" are required to get passes. There is no rule change there. You defended those rules when you were in Fountain, meh. Third, mistakes happen. Either you keep working to fix them, or you give up. Again, if Fountain Alliance is in the wrong, I'm certain that if you had not taken up arms, an honorable resolution could have been sought. While I can't speak for Fountain management, nor am I a diplomat for Fountain, but if you were to cease hostilities, perhaps some arrangement could be made that would make all parties happy. Lastly, please don't ascribe intent without evidence. TornSoul has elsewhere offered the olive branch. As have other members of Fountain Alliance. You admit yourself that CSUP tried to resolve an earlier misunderstanding. If for you it was too little, too late, or if you ascribe political motives to his offer, or to individuals actions that we would seek to resolve for you, then you've already made up your mind. And that's a little like "hi kettle, I'm pot. Your black." (i.e., The pot calling the kettle black. Throwing stones in a glass house. Whichever other euphamism you like.) It would be better if we could have handled these ill feelings in private, but obviously (from my perspective) mistakes were made somewhere along the way and it had to come here. So I go back to my earlier statement. If you guys are determined to hunt in the area, and attack us, it is a game. Regardless of how I will personally feel about it, we should at least be able to conduct ourselves as adults without smack on the forums or in local. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.02 19:33:00 - [166] Originally by: Darial Edited by: Darial on 02/02/2005 15:57:37 Originally by: qrac the difference was that s-44 followed the rules while u broke them several times and yet u still didn't get kos'ed until u broke them some more. we drew the line and u crossed it so many times that we finally had to act. What rules did Jazz break ? . . . To date? Or prior to the KOS being put on Jazz? To date, Jazz has committed the following violations of Fountain Alliance rules: Unauthorized entry in to sovereign space. Unauthorized entry in to sovereign space following a first warning. Unauthorized entry in to sovereign space with intent to attack pilots of Fountain Alliance Attack on Fountain Alliance pilots Refusal to obtain authorization to enter or pass thru sovereign space. Sale of ships in Fountain region market or on escrow. It's been said at least twice before, by me, that all of these things could have been avoided, and I've even given methods by which Jazz could have avoided them. This grows boring. I've pointed out that my personal conversations with a ARTW pilot resulted in being told by ARTW prior to hostilities starting that if I ever saw him again in local I should shoot first at a former friend, and ask questions only after I've podded him, because he would do the same to me. I even offered to address any diplomacy issues internally to Fountain Alliance to ensure that our honor is upheld. Repetition of arguements that I have already addressed are tiresome. Creative as your attack against the character of Fountain is, it's only amusing to those who already want to see a slander job done. \o/ for you. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2005.02.02 22:34:00 - [167] All that mess wouldn't have happened if ARTW had waited for Jazz to leave fountain before starting shooting left and right...
Mad Bomber	Posted - 2005.02.03 13:53:00 - [168] Originally by: Shadowsword All that mess wouldn't have happened if ARTW had waited for Jazz to leave fountain before starting shooting left and right... ARTW arent Jazz so you cant blame them. What I saw was ARTW pwn'ed a few FA, FA panicked and instead of shooting us, picked the easy option to get some cheap kills and attacked Jazz.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:00:00 - [169] Originally by: Percivs Unauthorized entry in to sovereign space. Unauthorized entry in to sovereign space following a first warning. Refusal to obtain authorization to enter or pass thru sovereign space. Sale of ships in Fountain region market or on escrow. and you guys honestly wonder why you dont have any friends ? Other alliances give leaving membercorps a lifelong pass not to mention they offer to buy the ships / ressources which cant be moved at fair prices. So please dont try to mask your lack of social skills and overburaticsm as crimes. Im sure you it was well worth for you to make more enemies 0_o over shooting down 4-5 ships....
AvanCade	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:39:00 - [170] There is noone to make enemie with for FA, so they can do as they please, cant get worse at the moment.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:44:00 - [171] Originally by: Mad Bomber Originally by: Shadowsword All that mess wouldn't have happened if ARTW had waited for Jazz to leave fountain before starting shooting left and right... ARTW arent Jazz so you cant blame them. What I saw was ARTW pwn'ed a few FA, FA panicked and instead of shooting us, picked the easy option to get some cheap kills and attacked Jazz. Shadowsword is wrong to lay the burden at ARTWs feet. Certain it increased already heightened tension, and certainly many believe that Jazz and ARTW remain friends and have close ties even today (hard not to believe that when you see ARTW defending Jazz on the forums). Still, the reasons for hostilities between Fountain Alliance and Jazz are as I have laid out. You may or may not be right about individual pilots within Fountain panicking at being attacked by former friends (i.e., ARTW). That is, today, neither here nor there. What is material to this debate, and this "Press Release" is that Jazz had recourse that they could have exercised had they wanted to resolve the problem peacefully. Anyone who denies that and instead claims that hostilities were "inevitable because FA is teh ebil and must be destroyed" had their mind made up long before hostilities started and contribute to this war. You cannot claim to be a victim when you enter in to negotiations in bad faith. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:46:00 - [172] Originally by: AvanCade There is noone to make enemie with for FA, so they can do as they please, cant get worse at the moment. Shinra would know, with their forum warrior skills honed to a sharp edge prior to the dissolution of Curse Alliance. Still, Fountain has no intention of seeking to make everyone an enemy the way Curse did. Though our enemies would have you believe otherwise. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.03 19:19:00 - [173] Originally by: Kcel Chim Originally by: Percivs Unauthorized entry in to sovereign space. Unauthorized entry in to sovereign space following a first warning. Refusal to obtain authorization to enter or pass thru sovereign space. Sale of ships in Fountain region market or on escrow. and you guys honestly wonder why you dont have any friends ? Other alliances give leaving membercorps a lifelong pass not to mention they offer to buy the ships / ressources which cant be moved at fair prices. So please dont try to mask your lack of social skills and overburaticsm as crimes. Im sure you it was well worth for you to make more enemies 0_o over shooting down 4-5 ships.... You're not a member of Fountain Alliance, so you speak from ignorance. Thankfully, this is curable. Fountain Alliance (its member pilots, corporations and the ruling government) has purchased a large quantity of the assets of departing members, both individual and corporate following their departure from Fountain Alliance. Plus, we had other assets gifted to us (the choice of the person leaving, not ours.) I myself offered to help others who have left Fountain to sell their assets at prices reasonable to the region (i.e., much more expensive for some things than in Empire.) A lot of isk has passed through my hands, without any kind of broker fee, for selling the assets of former Fountain Alliance members. I have even run assets from Fountain region to Hophib for people who want assets moved.) Jazz could have negotiated a similar deal had they wanted. Instead, they sold the items on the open market, something that prior to their departure they complained about just as much as everyone else in Fountain Alliance. And ATUK, a force that is currently attacking us, is certainly not the "Expert" on Fountain Alliance relations that I would have as an unbiased witness to our policies. I am a pilot of Fountain Alliance, and I have received respect from "my enemies" (people I once called friends) in this thread for my more moderate and reasonable position, and I can tell you that personally, I wish it were otherwise with Jazz. But if Jazz is not interested in peace, then so be it. You are not Jazz, nor are you a pilot of Fountain Alliance. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Kralor Darkilon	Posted - 2005.02.03 20:14:00 - [174] Originally by: Assassin 2 Edited by: Assassin 2 on 02/02/2005 14:01:00 i do love the "FA" , lol it makes me laugh, they are meant to be an anti-pirate alliance, but when push comes to shove and some poor neutral is tryin to go hunting or do a spot of mining the mighty FA come in and blows them up, 1. what if the neutral cant afford the pass? 2. why cant u just ask them to leave instead of killing them, and in respense to FA shoting Jazz it seems in my view that FA are a lil bit ****ed off with Jazz, so what if they just left you? you should let them have a lot longer than 48 hours, but anyhows rumours have it FA are going to be going up against BoB soon, enjoy It's probably wasting time asking you to attempt to get a clue or to even respond to this at all, but I will nevertheless. It is FA policy to ask neutrals entering FA space to negotiate a pass or request that they leave if they choose not to obtain a pass. We're also to check the KOS list to make sure a given "neutral" has already been flagged. We don't just shoot "poor neutrals" as you seem to believe. I can't speak for everyone in Fountain, but I do know that that's the policy and certainly my corp has never shot at a neutral that either: 1. Had a valid pass 2. Was advised of the need to have a pass and negotiated one 3. Chose not to negotiate for a pass and left Fountain space immediately 4. Was not found to be on the KOS list. And honestly, while I'm sure it's possible mistakes have been made in the past (FA always makes restitution for accidents, as far as I'm aware), I'm not aware of any other FA corps that behave in the manner you describe. Let's also keep in mind that the "beef" some people seem to have against FA seems to really be directed at certain individuals for whatever reason. I've only been in Fountain for about 2 1/2 months, so there's a lot of history I don't know about, I guess. I think that by and large, the residents of Fountain are good people just trying to enjoy 0.0 space and follow the rules needed to live there. It really bugs me to see all the totally misdirected generalizations that are common fare on these fora. It's clear to me that the truth isn't what's sought around here. Props to Percivs for giving it a try, anyway. BTW...I was sorry to see Jazz go and disappointed when they were made KOS but as has been stated here, it was only after multiple incidents of FA being fired upon first. It was very common for a few days to see people continually asking for verification of the KOS status after it had been set. Few wanted to believe that it was the case. As did Percivs, I also helped take things off of the hands of Jazz members who were leaving. I spent a lot of ISK on stuff I really didn't need just to help them out and to keep stuff off escrow and the regional market. I din't buy much of anything at a discout over normal regional prices, either, even though it was a buyer's market.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.02.04 00:55:00 - [175] Originally by: Tyrande Originally by: Bacchuss on a lighter note the Great FC Baun's Geddon got absoutley raped this afternoon along with 5 other FA Battle ships and a hand full of frgis/cruisers ect.. with only the loss of 3 ceptors on our side <killmail> Wow, you just killed a ship! You're still all classless backstabbing losers. Rubra.... backsta.... wha?? -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Dyvim Slorm	Posted - 2005.02.04 01:01:00 - [176] Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 04/02/2005 01:03:55 1/ During the time in question Jazz did not fire on any FA ships, even when fired upon. 2/ Jazz had until Saturday midnight to leave 3/ FA unilaterally revoked that time, by the preceeding Thursday we were expected to buy a corp pass. 4/ FA had in fact set us to neutral on the preceeding Tuesday, hence the accidental shooting of Jazz ships. Since then (Saturday midnight) Jazz has fired on FA ships and entered FA space when so disposed. S-44 keeps being mentioned, I understand that they moved all their ships out first before leaving. However that must be for S-44 to confirm or deny and may be hearsay.
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.02.04 15:28:00 - [177] Originally by: Percivs .... I was long enough Fountain alliance to know your "internal workings" first hand. Furthermore why do you think im not currently in FA ? Ever heared of multiple characters and accounts? Tho playing the ball back, how many corps stayed "friendly" with Fountain after leaving ? Or in particular did not lose a good bunch of its players who joined "hostile" corps? As m0o etc ? The fact remains that Jazz doesnt owe you anything after they left. As much as you might be angry to ventured into "hostile" space and work now with ppl not friendly to you, shooting them was just a lame show. Note this is not the first incident that happened, be it directly in FA or be it in Delve / Pb..... So please dont try to play it down as an accident.
empire nublette	Posted - 2005.02.04 15:55:00 - [178] Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Edited by: Dyvim Slorm on 04/02/2005 01:03:55 1/ During the time in question Jazz did not fire on any FA ships, even when fired upon. 2/ Jazz had until Saturday midnight to leave 3/ FA unilaterally revoked that time, by the preceeding Thursday we were expected to buy a corp pass. 4/ FA had in fact set us to neutral on the preceeding Tuesday, hence the accidental shooting of Jazz ships. Since then (Saturday midnight) Jazz has fired on FA ships and entered FA space when so disposed. S-44 keeps being mentioned, I understand that they moved all their ships out first before leaving. However that must be for S-44 to confirm or deny and may be hearsay. hearsay it is.
Raivotar	Posted - 2005.02.04 16:31:00 - [179] Lets get naked Super Poseidon > So this is how it feels like to be an egg and 10000000 sperm cells try to penetrate you
Betelquese	Posted - 2005.02.04 20:29:00 - [180] Shoot the JAZZ, who are they? Do they have a pass?
Galea Wildfang	Posted - 2005.02.04 22:53:00 - [181] Originally by: Kcel Chim I was long enough Fountain alliance to know your "internal workings" first hand. Furthermore why do you think im not currently in FA ? Ever heared of multiple characters and accounts? Tho playing the ball back, how many corps stayed "friendly" with Fountain after leaving ? Or in particular did not lose a good bunch of its players who joined "hostile" corps? As m0o etc ? The fact remains that Jazz doesnt owe you anything after they left. As much as you might be angry to ventured into "hostile" space and work now with ppl not friendly to you, shooting them was just a lame show. Note this is not the first incident that happened, be it directly in FA or be it in Delve / Pb..... So please dont try to play it down as an accident. I've been a peon within fountain for quite some time and I never really figured how it works internally. But I didn't really care either, I just enjoyed hanging around some decent guys, which about every corp in FA has some. But what really sickens me is people like you, who need 'multiple accounts' or 'alternate characters' to spy on someone you don't like. I'd rather lose a fight than winning it that way. And furthermore, how easy is it for such an alt-brigade to **** things up by 'incidents' and 'accidents'. Who knows how many of such things were actually intentionally sought after to make FA look bad. -------------- To those questioning BIG's participation in any fleet engagement must have forgotten who sought after the safespotted guys for days, for weeks, if not months. It has been a BIG guy. As a final note, I had alot of respect for Jazz, most of all to Plagues for all the work he put into making things work and get them organized. The path you chosed now ain't the one leading where you want to be though. You lost alot of trust and respect for the course of actions you chosed. There'd have to happen alot of things to ever follow Plags command without hesitation or doubts again. The wounds you caused left and right among the people, that fought by your side just weeks ago, won't be that easily forgotten. It's not about you're right or they're wrong, it's how you try to solve a problem. I didn't write on the political forum, did I ? geez goes for a temperature measuring 'Life on Earth might be expensive, but it does include an anual free trip around the sun'
Metal Dude	Posted - 2005.02.05 06:47:00 - [182] Originally by: Galea Wildfang But what really sickens me is people like you, who need 'multiple accounts' or 'alternate characters' to spy on someone you don't like. I'd rather lose a fight than winning it that way. And furthermore, how easy is it for such an alt-brigade to **** things up by 'incidents' and 'accidents'. Who knows how many of such things were actually intentionally sought after to make FA look bad. You hate the people that have multiple accounts? So itÆs ok if members of FA have multiple accounts and spies, but not for everyone else? Hypocrite? People have multiple accounts for verity of reasons, Like combination of mining & hauling, scouting & fighting, production & research. I guess it just didnÆt come to you yet. ItÆs ok. Maybe one day it will click. Maybe. You know what sickens me? When someone who quit his FA corp. (Free-Space-Rangers) when the going gets tough and runs to his little two man corp. in empire and now thinks that he has the right to comment about honor and loyalty. Thatæs what sickens me. Very cowardly, if you ask me. It just shows that you are just another forum warrior. See you in space. Maybe. The truth will set you free * Proud to be ATUK *
Galea Wildfang	Posted - 2005.02.05 10:40:00 - [183] Edited by: Galea Wildfang on 05/02/2005 10:49:54 Originally by: Metal Dude You hate the people that have multiple accounts? So itÆs ok if members of FA have multiple accounts and spies, but not for everyone else? Hypocrite? People have multiple accounts for verity of reasons, Like combination of mining & hauling, scouting & fighting, production & research. I guess it just didnÆt come to you yet. ItÆs ok. Maybe one day it will click. Maybe. Maybe on another day you'll learn to read and actually understand what is written. But I'll go through it step by step to leave you a chance to get it. 1) I didn't state to hate anyone. It's a game and no source of such strong emotions. 2) I don't dislike people having multiple accounts. It enlarges CCP's income and thus helps to keep the game alive. 3) I didn't state anywhere that it is (in my eyes) ok to have an alt spy for one person (or organisation) and for another it isn't. I consider it lame in any case. Originally by: Metal Dude You know what sickens me? When someone who quit his FA corp. (Free-Space-Rangers) when the going gets tough and runs to his little two man corp. in empire and now thinks that he has the right to comment about honor and loyalty. Thatæs what sickens me. Very cowardly, if you ask me. It just shows that you are just another forum warrior. See you in space. Maybe. That comming from a person now shooting those that once helped him have his wallet grow ? Oh, I assume things I don't have any knowledge about ? So do you. But I'm not going to go through my reasons of leaving. Edit: Sorry, didn't want to add to a flame fest. I wanted to make a point about the ARTW guys and how I think there course is the wrong one. The decision to make there are not mine, and I know Plags for example is a decent guy. I don't understand his (and his mates) doings entirely. But then, I don't have to really. Anyways, I'll stop here as I said all I wanted to add. 'Life on Earth might be expensive, but it does include an anual free trip around the sun'
Kell Sendaka	Posted - 2005.02.06 01:54:00 - [184] Originally by: Galea Wildfang Edit: Sorry, didn't want to add to a flame fest. I wanted to make a point about the ARTW guys and how I think there course is the wrong one. But you did didnt you? because you origionally said.... Originally by: Galea Wildfang As a final note, I had alot of respect for Jazz, most of all to Plagues for all the work he put into making things work and get them organized. The path you chosed now ain't the one leading where you want to be though. You lost alot of trust and respect for the course of actions you chosed. You cant differentiate between two corps either, unless off course you intended to slag us both off.
thelung187	Posted - 2005.02.06 07:00:00 - [185] Originally by: Galea Wildfang That comming from a person now shooting those that once helped him have his wallet grow ? Metal Dude, you are a backstabber and a traitor. You are KOS to FA now and you will be defeated time and again. Consider yourself warned. Now come to empire and mine veldspar as punishment, and be forced to listen to Cuplarca on TS forevermore. [ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or something
Galea Wildfang	Posted - 2005.02.06 09:58:00 - [186] Originally by: Kell Sendaka You cant differentiate between two corps either, unless off course you intended to slag us both off. My appologies. That has bean meant toward the ARTW guys, who left Jazz and Fountain to fight those, that a short time earlier have been their mates. And I do still have respect for both groups, Jazz and ARTW. 'Life on Earth might be expensive, but it does include an anual free trip around the sun'
Da Beefo	Posted - 2005.02.06 11:28:00 - [187] Cant we all just hug and be friends. Stop typing and start Fighting. (Btw its downtime so its ok to type )
Metal Dude	Posted - 2005.02.06 16:06:00 - [188] Edited by: Metal Dude on 06/02/2005 16:12:06 Originally by: thelung187 Originally by: Galea Wildfang That comming from a person now shooting those that once helped him have his wallet grow ? Metal Dude, you are a backstabber and a traitor. You are KOS to FA now and you will be defeated time and again. Consider yourself warned. Now come to empire and mine veldspar as punishment, and be forced to listen to Cuplarca on TS forevermore. LOL. It's OK. I understand that's how some feel in FA. I have been KOS since MACE days, so it's no big deal, but I also know that there are many people in FA that understand all about my desire to evolve in this GAME. The ones that think I'm a traitor one day will also understand, because most likely they will be in the same position as I was before I left. You can only make so much ISK and have so many BS before it does not satisfy your game play anymore. There are many different aspects of this game and that's what makes it great. I hope to experience them all. Well, all except a CEO or Alliance leader. I hate politics. I won't be hiding anywhere. If you see me in space and don't like me, shoot me. I'll return the favor with no hard feelings. See you in space. The truth will set you free * Proud to be ATUK *
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2005.02.06 19:00:00 - [189] Originally by: Galea Wildfang My appologies. That has bean meant toward the ARTW guys, who left Jazz and Fountain to fight those, that a short time earlier have been their mates. And I do still have respect for both groups, Jazz and ARTW. Maybe you have a general missunderstanding of the word friendship and beeing mates. An alliance of 2000 players will have as many asshats, totally random and unknown noobs as "m8s". If you have 20 friends in FA that wont justify 1980 asshats hiding behind that friendship. Ppl you dont like or dont know. So please cut on the eternal sentimental crap down.
amego	Posted - 2005.02.10 11:47:00 - [190] after all that has been said and done,and there has been plenty of both, i'd like to bring this topic back to where it began, and ask, FA are you sorry now? do you see the departure of JAZZ ASSOCIATES, as the harbringer of change, and from where i am sitting that change aint good for you. TORNSOUL, who's gonna save that station for you now? YOU'VE HAD YOUR DAY. Thanks to RUBRA and all the other brave pilots that continue to liberate Fountain space. day in, day out, GOOD JOB GUYS
empire nublette	Posted - 2005.02.10 11:51:00 - [191] Originally by: amego after all that has been said and done,and there has been plenty of both, i'd like to bring this topic back to where it began, and ask, FA are you sorry now? do you see the departure of JAZZ ASSOCIATES, as the harbringer of change, and from where i am sitting that change aint good for you. TORNSOUL, who's gonna save that station for you now? YOU'VE HAD YOUR DAY. Thanks to RUBRA and all the other brave pilots that continue to liberate Fountain space. day in, day out, GOOD JOB GUYS are you remo williams's alt, or maybe sith ewok's?
amego	Posted - 2005.02.10 12:05:00 - [192] sorry but no i am alt of no-one. just lil old me, an artist at work
Mad Bomber	Posted - 2005.02.10 16:24:00 - [193] Originally by: empire nublette Originally by: amego after all that has been said and done,and there has been plenty of both, i'd like to bring this topic back to where it began, and ask, FA are you sorry now? do you see the departure of JAZZ ASSOCIATES, as the harbringer of change, and from where i am sitting that change aint good for you. TORNSOUL, who's gonna save that station for you now? YOU'VE HAD YOUR DAY. Thanks to RUBRA and all the other brave pilots that continue to liberate Fountain space. day in, day out, GOOD JOB GUYS are you remo williams's alt, or maybe sith ewok's? Whos alt are you? Tornsoul's?
empire nublette	Posted - 2005.02.10 19:08:00 - [194] Originally by: Mad Bomber Originally by: empire nublette Originally by: amego after all that has been said and done,and there has been plenty of both, i'd like to bring this topic back to where it began, and ask, FA are you sorry now? do you see the departure of JAZZ ASSOCIATES, as the harbringer of change, and from where i am sitting that change aint good for you. TORNSOUL, who's gonna save that station for you now? YOU'VE HAD YOUR DAY. Thanks to RUBRA and all the other brave pilots that continue to liberate Fountain space. day in, day out, GOOD JOB GUYS are you remo williams's alt, or maybe sith ewok's? Whos alt are you? Tornsoul's? i wish
Adam C	Posted - 2005.02.10 19:37:00 - [195] dont pick on my amego his beautiful, irish and speaks the "truth!" When will Tornsoul gather the strengh and courage to leave the Fountain Alliance. Maybe when their are 0 members left ehh, either way he has all the money 700bil is it? ------------ Kind Regards
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.10 19:54:00 - [196] Originally by: Kcel Chim Originally by: Percivs .... I was long enough Fountain alliance to know your "internal workings" first hand. Furthermore why do you think im not currently in FA ? Ever heared of multiple characters and accounts? Tho playing the ball back, how many corps stayed "friendly" with Fountain after leaving ? Or in particular did not lose a good bunch of its players who joined "hostile" corps? As m0o etc ? The fact remains that Jazz doesnt owe you anything after they left. As much as you might be angry to ventured into "hostile" space and work now with ppl not friendly to you, shooting them was just a lame show. Note this is not the first incident that happened, be it directly in FA or be it in Delve / Pb..... So please dont try to play it down as an accident. Deftly done. How many corps stayed friendly after leaving Fountain Alliance? Ask a question that implies the answer you want, but don't actually give the answer. To my knowledge only the following 4 corporations have left in the last 3 months, Jazz, S-44, Star Tech Enterprises and The Steel Brotherhood. (And to be a little political, we have also added corporations to our alliance to make up the losses. Some come, some go. According to the CCP news, you (i.e., ATUK) came and went from Curse Alliance several times, which has got to be way more damage to their moral than losing a few corps has been to Fountain Alliance.) Star Tech because they lost their sponsor (because the Sponsor quit the game unexpectedly) and STRTK chose not to continue their application when a new sponsor came forward. Jazz, who was given time to exit and who we were told repeatedly were neutral and not KOS. Accidents and attitudes notwithstanding, the majority of Fountain did not seek hostilities with their former alliance partners. S-44 who had a shockingly large number of pilots go m0o just prior to their withdrawl. I'll withhold my personal opinion about the matter as it is not relevant to discussing Jazz. However, S-44 remains on good terms with Fountain Alliance and respects our territorial boundaries. The Steel Brotherhood who recently left, for reasons I have not yet been made aware. (I'm sure there are some in the alliance who will loath me saying that, but feh, they could take the time to inform them then, right?) We do not blaim those corps for the actions of ARTW or m0o. We, as individuals, may question the character of people in one corporation who flew with and continue to remain friends with those who are now hostile towards us. I certainly do. Still, Jazz in my mind is not ARTW. And the actions of Jazz were nowhere near hostile when I spoke with a few pilots when you compare how ARTW acted before hostilities began between Fountain Alliance and ARTW. And while I don't like you Kcel, either in game or in these forums, you will find that I am very reasonable when you put forth a reasonable arguement. While you are correct that Jazz entering the space of our enemies is no reason to shoot them, you omitted all the other reasons for which they were made KOS. Entering our region, shooting at us, etc. All of which happened, as I understand it, before they went running to ATUK. Unless you are implying that Jazz always intended to side with you in the war going on? Are you saying that those inside Fountain Alliance who claimed that Jazz was in fact actively working aganist us were right? Personally, I think you do more damage to Jazz by defending them than I do by pointing out that there were mistakes made. Mistakes that can be easily understood, and reasoned out why they happened in the first place. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.10 21:06:00 - [197] I wish the alts trying to "help FA" would STFU. A clever point was made in the last 2 pages. Alts for underhanded purposes are dishonorable, imho I agree with that sentiment. They are also, unfortunately, part of the tools of the trade of those who practice deceit and propoganda. If you do not have the intestinal fortitude to post using your "real name" and your "real corp/alliance" then you really don't have any business on these forums except to stir up trouble. And as a member of Fountain Alliance, I will quietly thank all the unsung Fountain alts from further antagonizing what should already be a dead thread. Those who have personal issues with specific people in Fountain, more power to you. Just remember, there are plenty of people like myself who until you make an enemy of me, would prefer the friendship we once shared. Even if you decide you want to go another direction, there is no reason for us to part on bad terms. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
amego	Posted - 2005.02.11 12:29:00 - [198] Edited by: amego on 11/02/2005 12:30:10 percivs you talk too much i'm afraid, any good point you have is lost in the babble. ARTW is and always was and always will be hostile to FA for their own reasons. but still after i brought this topic back to its origin no one has answered the question, which was , who is going to save the stations for tornsoul? in the light that jazz is not filling that void can anyone answer that simple straight forward question without using an alt ahem. i guess not. refusing to answer is i suppose admission that no one is. which means tornsoul has lost some of his undeserved empire. i wonder how long the rest of it will last. in fact, he cant even grace the boards with an answer which leaves his members unsupported yet again. i wonder when they will wake up and see he doesnt give a flying monkey's **** about them.
Kell Sendaka	Posted - 2005.02.11 13:23:00 - [199] Originally by: Percivs Entering our region, shooting at us, etc. All of which happened, as I understand it, before they went running to ATUK. Can I have proof of that? either ingame or out please. "As I understand it" we put FA to hostile shortly after Dyvim's convo with Baun which was after we "went running to ATUK". I was going to let this thread go but you had to light it up again didnt you.
EVENFLOW	Posted - 2005.02.11 15:38:00 - [200] Just outta curiousity, who is the Steel Brotherhood. I was very into the politics of FA for sometime, at least w/ being knowledgeable of what's going on, and i don't think i ever heard of them? Do ya mean Smite? /confused.
dabster	Posted - 2005.02.11 21:37:00 - [201] Yes Evenflow he means Smite, error while not being in-game apparently. ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's
La'nugos	Posted - 2005.02.11 21:57:00 - [202] One thing came to my mind...Nyt se turpa kiinni
Kaligo	Posted - 2005.02.11 22:13:00 - [203] I compleatly agree with la nugget
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.11 23:19:00 - [204] Edited by: Percivs on 11/02/2005 23:22:11 Edit: Typ-o Originally by: amego percivs you talk too much i'm afraid, any good point you have is lost in the babble. . . . Thank you for at least implying that amid the wreckage (that's self deprecating humor) of my post, there was in fact a good point or two. Originally by: amego . . . but still after i brought this topic back to its origin no one has answered the question, which was , who is going to save the stations for tornsoul? in the light that jazz is not filling that void can anyone answer that simple straight forward question without using an alt ahem. i guess not. It's Jazz's press release amego. I invite you to review the first page. That is the "origin." If you want to ask what BIG intends to do with it's stations in any particular region, I'd recommend you either post another thread and inquire, or ask TornSoul directly. Originally by: Kell Sendaka Originally by: Percivs Entering our region, shooting at us, etc. All of which happened, as I understand it, before they went running to ATUK. Can I have proof of that? either ingame or out please. "As I understand it" we put FA to hostile shortly after Dyvim's convo with Baun which was after we "went running to ATUK". I was going to let this thread go but you had to light it up again didnt you. Sure, I'll get in touch with you. I gather you didn't appreciate my wording, it was not intended to offend, however I can see how it might be interpreted that way. I apologize. No doubt you will shoot me at some point in the future. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Percivs	Posted - 2005.02.11 23:20:00 - [205] Originally by: dabster Yes Evenflow he means Smite, error while not being in-game apparently. Yes, the only time I even look at these forums is at work. If I was home, I'd rather play Eve, or do something more interesting. Apologies for the confusion. --- "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E.
Killer Gandry	Posted - 2005.03.17 23:29:00 - [206] Don't want to comment on the past. Today I fly, mine, hunt and defend in the same region as JAZZ and I only met honorable players. It's odd to see that some choices people make in a game cause so much stress. Friendships in this game are like spiderrags. Fragile and light. If a corporation did it's best for a period of time then grace and honour should prevail over rules. Heck, I would even have offered to help them haul their stuff out. Best departures are those that go like friends. Taking stuff personal is like sending the cops cause someone refuses to pay up when he hit's one of your streets in Monopoly. JAZZ, we of Red Horizon Inc. are glad to sit at the same table as you and if anyone of Red Horizon gives you any unwarrented crap then let me know. Same applies the other way around offcourse Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying
LiQuiDCooL	Posted - 2005.03.25 13:24:00 - [207] Originally by: Baun Edited by: Baun on 28/01/2005 00:27:19 Originally by: Dyvim Slorm Under the excellent military leadership of FC Baun a Jazz ship was attacked by FA tonight. I convo'd Baun, here is his reply: Dyvim Slorm > heya Baun > yes Dyvim Slorm > give me a straight answer please r JAZZ KOS or not, we keep getting different answers Baun > you are to be treated as anyone else who isnt FA Baun > which is better than you deserve Baun > is that all? Dyvim Slorm > ok We had agreed to leave FA space by midnight Saturday, we assume that Baun and FA felt threatened by our Indy's moving stuff out. We were fully intending to leave the area entirely as our new home is a long way away. However in light of the above FA have been set to HOSTILE and any Jazz pilot is free to attack. Well done FA for making yet another enemy, you must be very proud of yourselves. As i said quite clearly you are to be treated as anyone else who isn't in FA. After you decided to run to ATUK your CEO (Jayne) assured as you would be gone in 24 hours. We gave you 48 hours and are now treating you as neutrals. If you were shot at it is because you refused to purchase a pass to use our space. I am glad you felt this warranted a forum post though, most amusing. Dyvim Slorm, If You want a pass to FA please see you an ATUK Retailer nearest to you.. YaY.. Singin on the Mountain.. LiQuiDCooL Shinra ~ The Good Guys
Adam C	Posted - 2005.03.25 15:09:00 - [208] hey!!!!! ARTW does passes, too :) Kind Regards + travel safely through Fountain Region
Zhuge Liang	Posted - 2005.03.25 15:26:00 - [209] Do not bump old threads. ZhuuÀ gheyÀleeÀyan (Kongming)

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