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| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page | |
| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
 Keva    |
Posted - 2005.01.31 03:19:00 -
[31]
Tac Shield is useless. A small amount of dmg "bleeds" through the shields and hits armor when shields get low however the amount is tiny so the benefit of tac lvl5 vs tac lvl1 is useless in real combat. Basicly if you fought a long hard lvl4 mission with 100+ rats and routinely got to <20% shields with tac lvl1 you might end up with 100pts of armor dmg if you are flying a battleship. With tac lvl5 you might only have 30dmg to your armor. Either way that dmg isn't going to determine if you survive or die. So boosts this skill only if you need a higher lvl to use a mod otherwise it is worthless points.
Tac shield doesn't nothing to affect hardening but you will never get 100% or even 99.9%. With the resit you got 2 negative factors. 1) hardners onl reduce the "vulnerable" % which descreases 2) you got the normal stacking penalty. Now I am an armor tanker but the formulas are the same. Let's look at explosive armor tanking with 50% hardners. The base is a 20% resist. base: 20% resist 1 hardner: 60% 2 hardner: 75% 3 hardner: 84% 4 hardner: 88% 5 hardner: 92% 6 hardner: 94% 7 hardner: 96% 8 hardner: 97% one hardner does a massive boost +40% (which isn't bad since the theoretical max is 50%). The second one is still useful bring the resist up another +15%. After that it drops to +9% (but in long run blockin another 1/10 of the dmg could save your ship). The benefits drop off steep. The 4th and 5th hardners provides only 4% (combined they are less than the benefit of the 3rs). The 6th and 7th provide a useless 2% and the 8th boosts only 1%. Now no ship has more than 8 slots but even if you had one with 12 slots it would look like this 9 hardners: 98.04% 10 hardners: 98.70% 11 hardners: 99.14% 12 hardners: 99.43% so as you can see the benefits start dropping to the fractional %. So the short answer you aren't going to ever get 100% it's impossible and you are unlikely to get even to 99%. However ships that get a bonus to resist (HAC, assualt ships, new T2 indies) are VERY valuable because boosting that resist before using hardners allows you to get to a very useful 85%-90% with only 1 or 2 hardners. |
 Keva |
Posted - 2005.01.31 03:19:00 -
[32]
Tac Shield is useless. A small amount of dmg "bleeds" through the shields and hits armor when shields get low however the amount is tiny so the benefit of tac lvl5 vs tac lvl1 is useless in real combat. Basicly if you fought a long hard lvl4 mission with 100+ rats and routinely got to <20% shields with tac lvl1 you might end up with 100pts of armor dmg if you are flying a battleship. With tac lvl5 you might only have 30dmg to your armor. Either way that dmg isn't going to determine if you survive or die. So boosts this skill only if you need a higher lvl to use a mod otherwise it is worthless points.
Tac shield doesn't nothing to affect hardening but you will never get 100% or even 99.9%. With the resit you got 2 negative factors. 1) hardners onl reduce the "vulnerable" % which descreases 2) you got the normal stacking penalty. Now I am an armor tanker but the formulas are the same. Let's look at explosive armor tanking with 50% hardners. The base is a 20% resist. base: 20% resist 1 hardner: 60% 2 hardner: 75% 3 hardner: 84% 4 hardner: 88% 5 hardner: 92% 6 hardner: 94% 7 hardner: 96% 8 hardner: 97% one hardner does a massive boost +40% (which isn't bad since the theoretical max is 50%). The second one is still useful bring the resist up another +15%. After that it drops to +9% (but in long run blockin another 1/10 of the dmg could save your ship). The benefits drop off steep. The 4th and 5th hardners provides only 4% (combined they are less than the benefit of the 3rs). The 6th and 7th provide a useless 2% and the 8th boosts only 1%. Now no ship has more than 8 slots but even if you had one with 12 slots it would look like this 9 hardners: 98.04% 10 hardners: 98.70% 11 hardners: 99.14% 12 hardners: 99.43% so as you can see the benefits start dropping to the fractional %. So the short answer you aren't going to ever get 100% it's impossible and you are unlikely to get even to 99%. However ships that get a bonus to resist (HAC, assualt ships, new T2 indies) are VERY valuable because boosting that resist before using hardners allows you to get to a very useful 85%-90% with only 1 or 2 hardners. |
 Corair |
Posted - 2005.01.31 04:46:00 -
[33] Does the bonus^(n^0.75) formula apply to things like Heatsinks and Ballistic controls? I stacked several Ballistic controls and it showed the number as if there were no penalties. Could just be a case of "things aren't as they seem," but i'd like to find out. Thanks (btw, if the answer was above somewhere, my appologies) |
 Corair Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations |
Posted - 2005.01.31 04:46:00 -
[34] Does the bonus^(n^0.75) formula apply to things like Heatsinks and Ballistic controls? I stacked several Ballistic controls and it showed the number as if there were no penalties. Could just be a case of "things aren't as they seem," but i'd like to find out. Thanks (btw, if the answer was above somewhere, my appologies) -------- I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code. |
 Sentani |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:27:00 -
[35] how about the stack pen on the sensor damps ? |
 Sentani |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:27:00 -
[36] how about the stack pen on the sensor damps ? ____________________________________________________________ The Eris Goes Straight to your Head.  |
 Miss Take |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:28:00 -
[37]
The only hope i have for this skill is the advanced engineering skills that are listed on EVE-I. Tactical shileds manipulation to lvl 5 will give u access to them, and they seem to be amazing if the details are correct! |
 Miss Take Reikoku |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:28:00 -
[38]
The only hope i have for this skill is the advanced engineering skills that are listed on EVE-I. Tactical shileds manipulation to lvl 5 will give u access to them, and they seem to be amazing if the details are correct! |
dalman |
Posted - 2005.01.31 14:42:00 -
[39]
Yes. It applies exactly the same on both damage and ROF bonus.
Works the same. tech 1, -50%, gives a 0.5 multiplier. So, with 2 that is (0.5*0.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312x multiplier. (=~-69% to range). Same way with lock time. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
 dalman Finite Horizon |
Posted - 2005.01.31 14:42:00 -
[40]
Yes. It applies exactly the same on both damage and ROF bonus.
Works the same. tech 1, -50%, gives a 0.5 multiplier. So, with 2 that is (0.5*0.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312x multiplier. (=~-69% to range). Same way with lock time. I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Vashna |
Posted - 2005.05.21 18:15:00 -
[41] Answer to this: it is worthy to fit 5xGyro2, or is better 4xGyro2 and some otehr module? I mean... the bonus that the 5th Gyro give is so small that perphas is better fitting somethign else like an armor repairer... |
 Vashna Minmatar Doomheim |
Posted - 2005.05.21 18:15:00 -
[42] Answer to this: it is worthy to fit 5xGyro2, or is better 4xGyro2 and some otehr module? I mean... the bonus that the 5th Gyro give is so small that perphas is better fitting somethign else like an armor repairer... |
 Heikki |
Posted - 2005.05.23 08:50:00 -
[43]
Actually, looking at the percentages of harderning may give impression of smaller benefits than they actually are. Instead lets use term 'virtual hitpoints', which mean how much raw damage of that specific type your ship would withstand. So, with a ship say 1000 hps, and using the hardening list above, we get [1000/(1-hardening)]: base: 20% resist -> 1250 virtual HPs and 25% increase 1 hardner: 60% -> 2500, +100% 2 hardner: 75% -> 4000, +60% 3 hardner: 84% -> 6250, +56% 4 hardner: 88% -> 8333, +33% 5 hardner: 92% ->12500, +50% 6 hardner: 94% ->16667, +33% 7 hardner: 96% ->25000, +50% 8 hardner: 97% ->33333, +33% So, as we conclusion we see that although the percentages look small, they do have remarkable effect. Also the posted list, if correct, seems to have quite a few numbers rounded, which skews our calculation results. -Lasse |
 Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate. |
Posted - 2005.05.23 08:50:00 -
[44]
Actually, looking at the percentages of harderning may give impression of smaller benefits than they actually are. Instead lets use term 'virtual hitpoints', which mean how much raw damage of that specific type your ship would withstand. So, with a ship say 1000 hps, and using the hardening list above, we get [1000/(1-hardening)]: base: 20% resist -> 1250 virtual HPs and 25% increase 1 hardner: 60% -> 2500, +100% 2 hardner: 75% -> 4000, +60% 3 hardner: 84% -> 6250, +56% 4 hardner: 88% -> 8333, +33% 5 hardner: 92% ->12500, +50% 6 hardner: 94% ->16667, +33% 7 hardner: 96% ->25000, +50% 8 hardner: 97% ->33333, +33% So, as we conclusion we see that although the percentages look small, they do have remarkable effect. Also the posted list, if correct, seems to have quite a few numbers rounded, which skews our calculation results. -Lasse |
 Imhotep Khem |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:02:00 -
[45]
Yes, I always balance my damage mods with my tracking mods as to minimize the penalty. Also, their is no shield hardner penalty. Each shield hardner you add reduces the damage by the amount listed on the hardner, no less. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
 Imhotep Khem Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:02:00 -
[46]
Yes, I always balance my damage mods with my tracking mods as to minimize the penalty. Also, their is no shield hardner penalty. Each shield hardner you add reduces the damage by the amount listed on the hardner, no less. _________ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
 Farjung |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:50:00 -
[47]
EM resistance on my shields with two 50% EM hardeners activated: 68.8304945562% There is a shield hardener penalty. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
 Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:50:00 -
[48]
EM resistance on my shields with two 50% EM hardeners activated: 68.8304945562% There is a shield hardener penalty. Wave of Mutilation 2 |
Inspiration |
Posted - 2005.05.23 18:50:00 -
[49] Edited by: Inspiration on 23/05/2005 19:15:14 Interesting work Dust Puppy, I decided to make a simple HTML page containing a shield restistance calculator for some time now. I set to do it this evening and incidentaly saw this topic. First I kept getting wrong answers, but I finaly figured out that the input values you use in your formula are 'damage passing trough', and not the resistances. After that it all worked like a charm :). It's been only a few hours work so far, so please no complains people if it does not work with your browser. It has been created with IE 6, but should work on most modern browsers, if not all. The calculator does not do error handlng, input validation or nice number formating yet.....I might do that later if people deem that useful. Shield restistance calculator version 0.0000000001 Good luck people :). Check out my Shield/Armor resistance calculator. |
 Inspiration |
Posted - 2005.05.23 18:50:00 -
[50] Edited by: Inspiration on 23/05/2005 19:15:14 Interesting work Dust Puppy, I decided to make a simple HTML page containing a shield restistance calculator for some time now. I set to do it this evening and incidentaly saw this topic. First I kept getting wrong answers, but I finaly figured out that the input values you use in your formula are 'damage passing trough', and not the resistances. After that it all worked like a charm :). It's been only a few hours work so far, so please no complains people if it does not work with your browser. It has been created with IE 6, but should work on most modern browsers, if not all. The calculator does not do error handlng, input validation or nice number formating yet.....I might do that later if people deem that useful. Shield restistance calculator version 0.0000000001 Good luck people :). |
Fredou |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:10:00 -
[51] 'put that in a file called "mod calc.vbs" 'not bug free ;-) ' '----------------- dim total_mod, i, attr(), total_attrib total_mod = inputbox("how many mod?") redim attr(total_mod) for i = 0 to total_mod - 1 attr(i) = inputbox("attrib mod? (for 9.1% type 1.091)") next total_attrib = 1 for i= 0 to total_mod -1 total_attrib = total_attrib * attr(i) next msgbox "total mod: " & total_attrib ^ ((1/total_mod) ^ 0.25) '------------------ |
 Fredou Gallente Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:10:00 -
[52] 'put that in a file called "mod calc.vbs" 'not bug free ;-) ' '----------------- dim total_mod, i, attr(), total_attrib total_mod = inputbox("how many mod?") redim attr(total_mod) for i = 0 to total_mod - 1 attr(i) = inputbox("attrib mod? (for 9.1% type 1.091)") next total_attrib = 1 for i= 0 to total_mod -1 total_attrib = total_attrib * attr(i) next msgbox "total mod: " & total_attrib ^ ((1/total_mod) ^ 0.25) '------------------ |
 Imhotep Khem |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:32:00 -
[53]
Interesting. Perhaps this is the same equation i been looking for that explains my gyro stacking. Fortunately skills + ship bonus + mod bonus does not receive a penalty. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:32:00 -
[54]
Interesting. Perhaps this is the same equation i been looking for that explains my gyro stacking. Fortunately skills + ship bonus + mod bonus does not receive a penalty. _________ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Urfin |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:30:00 -
[55] Quite useful, I've been unsure how penalties worked for hards for some time. Gonna add this to my ship calc :) There's an interesting quirk with this formula though, for example: TH resist 20%, 2x 50% TH hards = 75% resist. Now if we add another TH hard and give it a bonus value lower than ~14%, the resulting TH resistance will actually be lower than with just 2 50% hards (i.e. 74% with the third hardener having a 10% bonus). Which makes me wonder about adaptive nanos... _____________________ Heatsink - Ship efficiency calculation proggie |
 Urfin Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:30:00 -
[56] Quite useful, I've been unsure how penalties worked for hards for some time. Gonna add this to my ship calc :) There's an interesting quirk with this formula though, for example: TH resist 20%, 2x 50% TH hards = 75% resist. Now if we add another TH hard and give it a bonus value lower than ~14%, the resulting TH resistance will actually be lower than with just 2 50% hards (i.e. 74% with the third hardener having a 10% bonus). Which makes me wonder about adaptive nanos... _____________________ Heatsink - Ship efficiency calculation proggie |
slip66 |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:34:00 -
[57] STICKY!!!!!!!!  |
 slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:34:00 -
[58] STICKY!!!!!!!! Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
 Lambda Effective |
Posted - 2007.08.10 02:51:00 -
[59]
I'm not sure when this changed, but following these formulas does not match in-game values. For example, in-game measurements on a drake with t1 invul (25%) stacked (base thermal w/ training 32%): 2x stack: 1 - (0.75*0.75)^((1/2)^0.25) * 0.68 = 58.1% in-game measured value: = 60.1% 3x stack: 1 - (0.75*0.75*0.75)^((1/3)^0.25) * 0.68 = 64.7% in-game measured value: = 65.7% 4x stack: 1 - (0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75)^((1/4)^0.25) * 0.68 = 69.9% in-game measured value: = 68.2% Yes, I know they are *close*, but if a formula is given, I'd like the satisfaction of getting an answer that matches in-game.  ...or am I making some silly mistake that I totally missed...? |
 Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc W A S T E L A N D |
Posted - 2007.08.10 05:56:00 -
[60] When you Necro an old thread, don't expect the information to be current. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions? |
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