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 Dust Puppy    |
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:21:00 -
[1] I've seen a lot of people have the idea that it is useless to fit more than one module that that is subject to the stacking penalty. That is simply not the case. Let's say that we have a module that gives a 10% bonus. By fitting one you of course get the 10% bonus, when you fit 2 you get a total 17.4% bonus and so on all according to the stacking penalty formula. (mod_1*...*mod_n)^((1/n)^0.25) To make it more graphical for you have constructed this image. Here the solid line is if there were no stacking penalty at all and the crosses are the total bonus with a stacking penalty. I also made this image where you can see how much you get from each mod (of course this only makes sense when we have modules that give the same bonus. __________ Capacitor research |
 Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:21:00 -
[2] I've seen a lot of people have the idea that it is useless to fit more than one module that that is subject to the stacking penalty. That is simply not the case. Let's say that we have a module that gives a 10% bonus. By fitting one you of course get the 10% bonus, when you fit 2 you get a total 17.4% bonus and so on all according to the stacking penalty formula. (mod_1*...*mod_n)^((1/n)^0.25) To make it more graphical for you have constructed this image. Here the solid line is if there were no stacking penalty at all and the crosses are the total bonus with a stacking penalty. I also made this image where you can see how much you get from each mod (of course this only makes sense when we have modules that give the same bonus. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig |
 KingsGambit |
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:36:00 -
[3] That is great info...any chance of another graph identical to the first, except with grid lines and a different colour connecting the "with penalty" line? I can sorta understand the second one though my brain wants to see it the other way round! Perhaps a graph with an actual example (eg 1-8 Damage Mods)? Real numbers would be fantastic you cruncher you :) ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals |
 KingsGambit Caldari Knights |
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:36:00 -
[4] That is great info...any chance of another graph identical to the first, except with grid lines and a different colour connecting the "with penalty" line? I can sorta understand the second one though my brain wants to see it the other way round! Perhaps a graph with an actual example (eg 1-8 Damage Mods)? Real numbers would be fantastic you cruncher you :) ------------- My T2 Shop |
 Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:49:00 -
[5]
I put grids on the images and they look now imo a whole lot better  Heat sink II actually gives 10% increase to damage so those images could be useful for those gankageddon pilots. Will try to do one for ballistic controls I later today. __________ Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 10:49:00 -
[6]
I put grids on the images and they look now imo a whole lot better Heat sink II actually gives 10% increase to damage so those images could be useful for those gankageddon pilots. Will try to do one for ballistic controls I later today. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig |
 mahhy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 11:32:00 -
[7]
Try the same graph with 150 low slots (yes 150) just for fun. Then look at the difference between a module and the previous module. You'll notice that the benefit the module gives compared to the previous module starts increasing at the 7th module for a 10% bonus. So module 7 gives a larger increase in damage mod (T2 HS being the example) compared to the 6th module. 8th module is in turn a bigger increase than 7th module. And it only grows from there. By the time you hit 29 modules, there is no stacking "penalty" and you end up gaining more than 10% Course who doesn't want a ship with 30 low slots!  Course, if the percentage bonus increases, the point where you start seeing increased returns is decreased. With a 15% bonus you start seeing module 5 giving larger increases than module 4. Interesting thought considering where Tech 2 is and what we expect to see in Officer modules and future Tech 3. |
 mahhy MASS |
Posted - 2005.01.30 11:32:00 -
[8]
Try the same graph with 150 low slots (yes 150) just for fun. Then look at the difference between a module and the previous module. You'll notice that the benefit the module gives compared to the previous module starts increasing at the 7th module for a 10% bonus. So module 7 gives a larger increase in damage mod (T2 HS being the example) compared to the 6th module. 8th module is in turn a bigger increase than 7th module. And it only grows from there. By the time you hit 29 modules, there is no stacking "penalty" and you end up gaining more than 10% Course who doesn't want a ship with 30 low slots! Course, if the percentage bonus increases, the point where you start seeing increased returns is decreased. With a 15% bonus you start seeing module 5 giving larger increases than module 4. Interesting thought considering where Tech 2 is and what we expect to see in Officer modules and future Tech 3. |
 Ithildin |
Posted - 2005.01.30 12:03:00 -
[9] nada.kth.se for teh win! \o/ Very neat graphs and very informative. Thanks a lot -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
 Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions |
Posted - 2005.01.30 12:03:00 -
[10] nada.kth.se for teh win! \o/ Very neat graphs and very informative. Thanks a lot - EVE is sick. |
Hans Roaming |
Posted - 2005.01.30 12:18:00 -
[11] I think this should be made a sticky as it clearly illustrates the penalty, and big thanks to Dust Puppy. WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa. WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
 Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition |
Posted - 2005.01.30 12:18:00 -
[12] I think this should be made a sticky as it clearly illustrates the penalty, and big thanks to Dust Puppy. |
Dred 'Morte |
Posted - 2005.01.30 12:19:00 -
[13] I think same thing happens to shield resistance, example: if you have 60% resistance, enemy does you 40 damage, if you put a 50% hardener, you get something like 80% resistance, and then enemy does 20 damage. am i correct? |
 Dred 'Morte Winds of Dawn |
Posted - 2005.01.30 12:19:00 -
[14] I think same thing happens to shield resistance, example: if you have 60% resistance, enemy does you 40 damage, if you put a 50% hardener, you get something like 80% resistance, and then enemy does 20 damage. am i correct? |
JaiMaster |
Posted - 2005.01.30 15:34:00 -
[15] correct you are Shields w/ photon hardners (mid) (50%) 0 - 100% dmg 1 - 50% dmg 2 - 25% dmg 3 - 12.5% dmg each additional mod halving the dmg done without it ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end. |
 JaiMaster Steel Frontier |
Posted - 2005.01.30 15:34:00 -
[16] correct you are Shields w/ photon hardners (mid) (50%) 0 - 100% dmg 1 - 50% dmg 2 - 25% dmg 3 - 12.5% dmg each additional mod halving the dmg done without it ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end. |
 Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:03:00 -
[17]
Wow I always thought the bonus would just always decrease but you are right and I constructed a graph where we have 20% bonus instead of 10% and above the 5th module you start seeing the bonus increase again lookie __________ Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:03:00 -
[18]
Wow I always thought the bonus would just always decrease but you are right and I constructed a graph where we have 20% bonus instead of 10% and above the 5th module you start seeing the bonus increase again lookie Original Mr Floppyknickers sig |
Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:09:00 -
[19]
The shield hardeners do also have a stacking penalty so for using 2 of the same type you get (0.5*0.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312 or so you have a total resistance of 31.2%. Btw with a little rewriting of the formula you can shorten it if all the bonuses are the same to bonus^(n^0.75) Just remember if the bonus gives you 10% you put 1.1 and if it decreases by 10% you put in 0.9. __________ Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:09:00 -
[20]
The shield hardeners do also have a stacking penalty so for using 2 of the same type you get (0.5*0.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312 or so you have a total resistance of 31.2%. Btw with a little rewriting of the formula you can shorten it if all the bonuses are the same to bonus^(n^0.75) Just remember if the bonus gives you 10% you put 1.1 and if it decreases by 10% you put in 0.9. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig |
 Pottsey |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:16:00 -
[21] Another great post by Dust Puppy. Slight change of topic did you get time to look at the shield recharge curve? I am leaning towards saying its 2.6 to 2.7 at some where between 15 to 20%. Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
 Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:16:00 -
[22] Another great post by Dust Puppy. Slight change of topic did you get time to look at the shield recharge curve? I am leaning towards saying its 2.6 to 2.7 at some where between 15 to 20%. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
 qyros |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:40:00 -
[23] Edited by: qyros on 30/01/2005 22:42:26
Sorry professor, just a minor clarification and no dishonouring of your work. Resistance would be 1 - 0.312?. |
 qyros Stardust Heavy Industries Dusk and Dawn |
Posted - 2005.01.30 22:40:00 -
[24] Edited by: qyros on 30/01/2005 22:42:26
Sorry professor, just a minor clarification and no dishonouring of your work. Resistance would be 1 - 0.312?. _________________________________________________ Splagada - to reduce lag, CCP creates epileptics (Blinded On Jump) |
dalman |
Posted - 2005.01.30 23:00:00 -
[25]
Yes, that is correct. When you look at resistance, the formula gives the % that go through. So for example, with 2 thermal shieldhardeners on, 0.312 * 0.8(from basic resistance) goes through, and the total resistance is 1 - 0.312 * 0.8. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
 dalman Finite Horizon |
Posted - 2005.01.30 23:00:00 -
[26]
Yes, that is correct. When you look at resistance, the formula gives the % that go through. So for example, with 2 thermal shieldhardeners on, 0.312 * 0.8(from basic resistance) goes through, and the total resistance is 1 - 0.312 * 0.8. I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
 Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 23:24:00 -
[27] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 30/01/2005 23:24:26
Thanks for that I always seem to think about how much damage leaks through  Edit: Pottsey I made some measurements and replied in your old thread. __________ Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy |
Posted - 2005.01.30 23:24:00 -
[28] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 30/01/2005 23:24:26
Thanks for that I always seem to think about how much damage leaks through Edit: Pottsey I made some measurements and replied in your old thread. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig |
 Jack Winters |
Posted - 2005.01.31 00:08:00 -
[29] Do remember that the skill Tactical Shield Manipulation effects the damage that go thru, I do need some explanation to this. "Bonus: 5% reduced chance of damage penetrating the shield." Does this affect the ship with or without hardners. And at lvl5 how much damage does it stop? I'm Currently using a Ferox for agent level 3 missions, With my current shield tank, the rats don't get more than 0.1-40 dmg thru. 2x Hardners for what ever rat I go up against. But I would love to know if I could get 100% resistance in one type of damage. (I got Battlecruiser lvl5 and Tactical Shield... lvl5) In my view it would never get to 100%, but to 99,99^e%, I am not sure hoping I'm wrong :) ---- "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed" - Darth Vader |
 Jack Winters untaught Ka-Tet |
Posted - 2005.01.31 00:08:00 -
[30] Do remember that the skill Tactical Shield Manipulation effects the damage that go thru, I do need some explanation to this. "Bonus: 5% reduced chance of damage penetrating the shield." Does this affect the ship with or without hardners. And at lvl5 how much damage does it stop? I'm Currently using a Ferox for agent level 3 missions, With my current shield tank, the rats don't get more than 0.1-40 dmg thru. 2x Hardners for what ever rat I go up against. But I would love to know if I could get 100% resistance in one type of damage. (I got Battlecruiser lvl5 and Tactical Shield... lvl5) In my view it would never get to 100%, but to 99,99^e%, I am not sure hoping I'm wrong :) ---- "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed" - Darth Vader |
 Keva |
Posted - 2005.01.31 03:19:00 -
[31]
Tac Shield is useless. A small amount of dmg "bleeds" through the shields and hits armor when shields get low however the amount is tiny so the benefit of tac lvl5 vs tac lvl1 is useless in real combat. Basicly if you fought a long hard lvl4 mission with 100+ rats and routinely got to <20% shields with tac lvl1 you might end up with 100pts of armor dmg if you are flying a battleship. With tac lvl5 you might only have 30dmg to your armor. Either way that dmg isn't going to determine if you survive or die. So boosts this skill only if you need a higher lvl to use a mod otherwise it is worthless points.
Tac shield doesn't nothing to affect hardening but you will never get 100% or even 99.9%. With the resit you got 2 negative factors. 1) hardners onl reduce the "vulnerable" % which descreases 2) you got the normal stacking penalty. Now I am an armor tanker but the formulas are the same. Let's look at explosive armor tanking with 50% hardners. The base is a 20% resist. base: 20% resist 1 hardner: 60% 2 hardner: 75% 3 hardner: 84% 4 hardner: 88% 5 hardner: 92% 6 hardner: 94% 7 hardner: 96% 8 hardner: 97% one hardner does a massive boost +40% (which isn't bad since the theoretical max is 50%). The second one is still useful bring the resist up another +15%. After that it drops to +9% (but in long run blockin another 1/10 of the dmg could save your ship). The benefits drop off steep. The 4th and 5th hardners provides only 4% (combined they are less than the benefit of the 3rs). The 6th and 7th provide a useless 2% and the 8th boosts only 1%. Now no ship has more than 8 slots but even if you had one with 12 slots it would look like this 9 hardners: 98.04% 10 hardners: 98.70% 11 hardners: 99.14% 12 hardners: 99.43% so as you can see the benefits start dropping to the fractional %. So the short answer you aren't going to ever get 100% it's impossible and you are unlikely to get even to 99%. However ships that get a bonus to resist (HAC, assualt ships, new T2 indies) are VERY valuable because boosting that resist before using hardners allows you to get to a very useful 85%-90% with only 1 or 2 hardners. |
 Keva |
Posted - 2005.01.31 03:19:00 -
[32]
Tac Shield is useless. A small amount of dmg "bleeds" through the shields and hits armor when shields get low however the amount is tiny so the benefit of tac lvl5 vs tac lvl1 is useless in real combat. Basicly if you fought a long hard lvl4 mission with 100+ rats and routinely got to <20% shields with tac lvl1 you might end up with 100pts of armor dmg if you are flying a battleship. With tac lvl5 you might only have 30dmg to your armor. Either way that dmg isn't going to determine if you survive or die. So boosts this skill only if you need a higher lvl to use a mod otherwise it is worthless points.
Tac shield doesn't nothing to affect hardening but you will never get 100% or even 99.9%. With the resit you got 2 negative factors. 1) hardners onl reduce the "vulnerable" % which descreases 2) you got the normal stacking penalty. Now I am an armor tanker but the formulas are the same. Let's look at explosive armor tanking with 50% hardners. The base is a 20% resist. base: 20% resist 1 hardner: 60% 2 hardner: 75% 3 hardner: 84% 4 hardner: 88% 5 hardner: 92% 6 hardner: 94% 7 hardner: 96% 8 hardner: 97% one hardner does a massive boost +40% (which isn't bad since the theoretical max is 50%). The second one is still useful bring the resist up another +15%. After that it drops to +9% (but in long run blockin another 1/10 of the dmg could save your ship). The benefits drop off steep. The 4th and 5th hardners provides only 4% (combined they are less than the benefit of the 3rs). The 6th and 7th provide a useless 2% and the 8th boosts only 1%. Now no ship has more than 8 slots but even if you had one with 12 slots it would look like this 9 hardners: 98.04% 10 hardners: 98.70% 11 hardners: 99.14% 12 hardners: 99.43% so as you can see the benefits start dropping to the fractional %. So the short answer you aren't going to ever get 100% it's impossible and you are unlikely to get even to 99%. However ships that get a bonus to resist (HAC, assualt ships, new T2 indies) are VERY valuable because boosting that resist before using hardners allows you to get to a very useful 85%-90% with only 1 or 2 hardners. |
 Corair |
Posted - 2005.01.31 04:46:00 -
[33] Does the bonus^(n^0.75) formula apply to things like Heatsinks and Ballistic controls? I stacked several Ballistic controls and it showed the number as if there were no penalties. Could just be a case of "things aren't as they seem," but i'd like to find out. Thanks (btw, if the answer was above somewhere, my appologies) |
 Corair Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations |
Posted - 2005.01.31 04:46:00 -
[34] Does the bonus^(n^0.75) formula apply to things like Heatsinks and Ballistic controls? I stacked several Ballistic controls and it showed the number as if there were no penalties. Could just be a case of "things aren't as they seem," but i'd like to find out. Thanks (btw, if the answer was above somewhere, my appologies) -------- I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code. |
Sentani |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:27:00 -
[35] how about the stack pen on the sensor damps ? |
 Sentani |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:27:00 -
[36] how about the stack pen on the sensor damps ? ____________________________________________________________ The Eris Goes Straight to your Head.  |
Miss Take |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:28:00 -
[37]
The only hope i have for this skill is the advanced engineering skills that are listed on EVE-I. Tactical shileds manipulation to lvl 5 will give u access to them, and they seem to be amazing if the details are correct! |
 Miss Take Reikoku |
Posted - 2005.01.31 05:28:00 -
[38]
The only hope i have for this skill is the advanced engineering skills that are listed on EVE-I. Tactical shileds manipulation to lvl 5 will give u access to them, and they seem to be amazing if the details are correct! |
dalman |
Posted - 2005.01.31 14:42:00 -
[39]
Yes. It applies exactly the same on both damage and ROF bonus.
Works the same. tech 1, -50%, gives a 0.5 multiplier. So, with 2 that is (0.5*0.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312x multiplier. (=~-69% to range). Same way with lock time. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
dalman Finite Horizon |
Posted - 2005.01.31 14:42:00 -
[40]
Yes. It applies exactly the same on both damage and ROF bonus.
Works the same. tech 1, -50%, gives a 0.5 multiplier. So, with 2 that is (0.5*0.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312x multiplier. (=~-69% to range). Same way with lock time. I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
 Vashna |
Posted - 2005.05.21 18:15:00 -
[41] Answer to this: it is worthy to fit 5xGyro2, or is better 4xGyro2 and some otehr module? I mean... the bonus that the 5th Gyro give is so small that perphas is better fitting somethign else like an armor repairer... |
 Vashna Minmatar Doomheim |
Posted - 2005.05.21 18:15:00 -
[42] Answer to this: it is worthy to fit 5xGyro2, or is better 4xGyro2 and some otehr module? I mean... the bonus that the 5th Gyro give is so small that perphas is better fitting somethign else like an armor repairer... |
Heikki |
Posted - 2005.05.23 08:50:00 -
[43]
Actually, looking at the percentages of harderning may give impression of smaller benefits than they actually are. Instead lets use term 'virtual hitpoints', which mean how much raw damage of that specific type your ship would withstand. So, with a ship say 1000 hps, and using the hardening list above, we get [1000/(1-hardening)]: base: 20% resist -> 1250 virtual HPs and 25% increase 1 hardner: 60% -> 2500, +100% 2 hardner: 75% -> 4000, +60% 3 hardner: 84% -> 6250, +56% 4 hardner: 88% -> 8333, +33% 5 hardner: 92% ->12500, +50% 6 hardner: 94% ->16667, +33% 7 hardner: 96% ->25000, +50% 8 hardner: 97% ->33333, +33% So, as we conclusion we see that although the percentages look small, they do have remarkable effect. Also the posted list, if correct, seems to have quite a few numbers rounded, which skews our calculation results. -Lasse |
 Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate. |
Posted - 2005.05.23 08:50:00 -
[44]
Actually, looking at the percentages of harderning may give impression of smaller benefits than they actually are. Instead lets use term 'virtual hitpoints', which mean how much raw damage of that specific type your ship would withstand. So, with a ship say 1000 hps, and using the hardening list above, we get [1000/(1-hardening)]: base: 20% resist -> 1250 virtual HPs and 25% increase 1 hardner: 60% -> 2500, +100% 2 hardner: 75% -> 4000, +60% 3 hardner: 84% -> 6250, +56% 4 hardner: 88% -> 8333, +33% 5 hardner: 92% ->12500, +50% 6 hardner: 94% ->16667, +33% 7 hardner: 96% ->25000, +50% 8 hardner: 97% ->33333, +33% So, as we conclusion we see that although the percentages look small, they do have remarkable effect. Also the posted list, if correct, seems to have quite a few numbers rounded, which skews our calculation results. -Lasse |
Imhotep Khem |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:02:00 -
[45]
Yes, I always balance my damage mods with my tracking mods as to minimize the penalty. Also, their is no shield hardner penalty. Each shield hardner you add reduces the damage by the amount listed on the hardner, no less. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
 Imhotep Khem Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:02:00 -
[46]
Yes, I always balance my damage mods with my tracking mods as to minimize the penalty. Also, their is no shield hardner penalty. Each shield hardner you add reduces the damage by the amount listed on the hardner, no less. _________ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Farjung |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:50:00 -
[47]
EM resistance on my shields with two 50% EM hardeners activated: 68.8304945562% There is a shield hardener penalty. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
 Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.05.23 17:50:00 -
[48]
EM resistance on my shields with two 50% EM hardeners activated: 68.8304945562% There is a shield hardener penalty. Wave of Mutilation 2 |
Inspiration |
Posted - 2005.05.23 18:50:00 -
[49] Edited by: Inspiration on 23/05/2005 19:15:14 Interesting work Dust Puppy, I decided to make a simple HTML page containing a shield restistance calculator for some time now. I set to do it this evening and incidentaly saw this topic. First I kept getting wrong answers, but I finaly figured out that the input values you use in your formula are 'damage passing trough', and not the resistances. After that it all worked like a charm :). It's been only a few hours work so far, so please no complains people if it does not work with your browser. It has been created with IE 6, but should work on most modern browsers, if not all. The calculator does not do error handlng, input validation or nice number formating yet.....I might do that later if people deem that useful. Shield restistance calculator version 0.0000000001 Good luck people :). Check out my Shield/Armor resistance calculator. |
 Inspiration |
Posted - 2005.05.23 18:50:00 -
[50] Edited by: Inspiration on 23/05/2005 19:15:14 Interesting work Dust Puppy, I decided to make a simple HTML page containing a shield restistance calculator for some time now. I set to do it this evening and incidentaly saw this topic. First I kept getting wrong answers, but I finaly figured out that the input values you use in your formula are 'damage passing trough', and not the resistances. After that it all worked like a charm :). It's been only a few hours work so far, so please no complains people if it does not work with your browser. It has been created with IE 6, but should work on most modern browsers, if not all. The calculator does not do error handlng, input validation or nice number formating yet.....I might do that later if people deem that useful. Shield restistance calculator version 0.0000000001 Good luck people :). |
Fredou |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:10:00 -
[51] 'put that in a file called "mod calc.vbs" 'not bug free ;-) ' '----------------- dim total_mod, i, attr(), total_attrib total_mod = inputbox("how many mod?") redim attr(total_mod) for i = 0 to total_mod - 1 attr(i) = inputbox("attrib mod? (for 9.1% type 1.091)") next total_attrib = 1 for i= 0 to total_mod -1 total_attrib = total_attrib * attr(i) next msgbox "total mod: " & total_attrib ^ ((1/total_mod) ^ 0.25) '------------------ |
 Fredou Gallente Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:10:00 -
[52] 'put that in a file called "mod calc.vbs" 'not bug free ;-) ' '----------------- dim total_mod, i, attr(), total_attrib total_mod = inputbox("how many mod?") redim attr(total_mod) for i = 0 to total_mod - 1 attr(i) = inputbox("attrib mod? (for 9.1% type 1.091)") next total_attrib = 1 for i= 0 to total_mod -1 total_attrib = total_attrib * attr(i) next msgbox "total mod: " & total_attrib ^ ((1/total_mod) ^ 0.25) '------------------ |
Imhotep Khem |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:32:00 -
[53]
Interesting. Perhaps this is the same equation i been looking for that explains my gyro stacking. Fortunately skills + ship bonus + mod bonus does not receive a penalty. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE |
Posted - 2005.05.23 19:32:00 -
[54]
Interesting. Perhaps this is the same equation i been looking for that explains my gyro stacking. Fortunately skills + ship bonus + mod bonus does not receive a penalty. _________ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Urfin |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:30:00 -
[55] Quite useful, I've been unsure how penalties worked for hards for some time. Gonna add this to my ship calc :) There's an interesting quirk with this formula though, for example: TH resist 20%, 2x 50% TH hards = 75% resist. Now if we add another TH hard and give it a bonus value lower than ~14%, the resulting TH resistance will actually be lower than with just 2 50% hards (i.e. 74% with the third hardener having a 10% bonus). Which makes me wonder about adaptive nanos... _____________________ Heatsink - Ship efficiency calculation proggie |
 Urfin Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:30:00 -
[56] Quite useful, I've been unsure how penalties worked for hards for some time. Gonna add this to my ship calc :) There's an interesting quirk with this formula though, for example: TH resist 20%, 2x 50% TH hards = 75% resist. Now if we add another TH hard and give it a bonus value lower than ~14%, the resulting TH resistance will actually be lower than with just 2 50% hards (i.e. 74% with the third hardener having a 10% bonus). Which makes me wonder about adaptive nanos... _____________________ Heatsink - Ship efficiency calculation proggie |
 slip66 |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:34:00 -
[57] STICKY!!!!!!!! |
 slip66 Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.06.09 14:34:00 -
[58] STICKY!!!!!!!! Originally by: StOrM ViPeR Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
 Lambda Effective |
Posted - 2007.08.10 02:51:00 -
[59]
I'm not sure when this changed, but following these formulas does not match in-game values. For example, in-game measurements on a drake with t1 invul (25%) stacked (base thermal w/ training 32%): 2x stack: 1 - (0.75*0.75)^((1/2)^0.25) * 0.68 = 58.1% in-game measured value: = 60.1% 3x stack: 1 - (0.75*0.75*0.75)^((1/3)^0.25) * 0.68 = 64.7% in-game measured value: = 65.7% 4x stack: 1 - (0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75)^((1/4)^0.25) * 0.68 = 69.9% in-game measured value: = 68.2% Yes, I know they are *close*, but if a formula is given, I'd like the satisfaction of getting an answer that matches in-game.  ...or am I making some silly mistake that I totally missed...? |
 Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc W A S T E L A N D |
Posted - 2007.08.10 05:56:00 -
[60] When you Necro an old thread, don't expect the information to be current. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions? |
Lambda Effective |
Posted - 2007.08.11 01:58:00 -
[61]
I got to this thread via the Ship/Module Guide Index - Updated 29th May 2007. It appears this is the most recent version of the formula on these forums, and is linked via a current thread. If there is a "new" (and correct) thread, please direct me to it. |
 Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force |
Posted - 2007.08.11 02:20:00 -
[62] Try the one in my sig :) _ Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
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