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Killmails and Killboards: A spirited discussion to remove both

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Toilarmius Minmatar Auxilia Enterprises	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:21:00 - [1] An easy solution to abate the woes of PvP hungry pilots. My arguments: Capsuleer's are afraid to be idnetified with a "bad" fit. They don't want to be forever immortalized as "that failfit guy/gal". It's usually considered socially unacceptable within the Eve community to try out new fits, or things they may believe work. Why? Because most of the time people point and laugh as there is typically a general consensus on how to fit each ship class for PvP. Epeens shrink with "evidence" of killboards/killmails. The number of wins/losses seem to matter. People won't undock or engage if they feel it a losing cause, or have even the slightest doubt. They will hide or do whatever possible not to "mess up" or further deteriorate their killboard. It's not always that a pilot can't replace their ship, it's sometimes that they don't want to take a stat hit. Bragging rights from posting and checking of killboards seem to occur frequently. Shouldn't universal stardom or infamy come from word of mouth and not killboards? If you truly make a name for yourself, other capsuleers will spread the word of your actions on their own. In the end, I believe more capsuleers would undock or square off because the upkeep of appearances would be removed. Isn't the fight itself more important then the outcome? I realize the removal of these may also be the downfall for certain types of posts on these forums. What's more important to PvP'ers, proof or GTFO posts, or actual PvP? I present this post to you, my fellow furry forum friends. Please respond after you have sufficiently checked my stats, because that's what qualifies me to post this stuff, right? --- Originally by: CCP Fallout I can scan (but don't have time atm) a picture of one of my mother's modeling photos and you'd see hers as well, and she's more obviously a women than I'll ever be.
Implying Implications Minmatar Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:23:00 - [2] It's this thread again. >Implying Implications
DonHel Gallente Kentucky Fried Capsuleer	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:25:00 - [3] no
Illwill Bill Reign of Anarchy	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:26:00 - [4] Show us on the doll where the gankers caught you with 40+ PLEX in your cargohold. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Revenge is a dish best served with auto-cannons.
Mya ElleTerego Amarr The Hull Miners Union Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:28:00 - [5] Edited by: Mya ElleTerego on 03/03/2011 17:28:51 Short answer, No. Long answer we need that information at leadership levels to ensure our members aren't lacking in training, or discipline, or effectiveness. Also we need to know if they are going all sigarri faction pinata on us. Those factors can attract permanent roaming pvpers to your space, and some organizations wouldn't want that. Just because someone is terrible doesn't mean you always hold it against them, unless they joined the wrong corp. You dont come and join my corp and fit random trash on your ships, you will get booted out of hand, and ridiculed, by leadership and members. There are groups however, that will recruit those types of new players and try and mold them into something decent, see RvB, or factional warfare, lowsec scrub pirates, etc. Combat record for Toilarmius Lifetime Kills Losses 24 25 And no your not qualified to write this kind of crap. Go away.
Doshia	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Doshia on 03/03/2011 17:33:34 KB are the only way to prove kills and without them people would just scream lier when others tell them of their accomplishments.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:39:00 - [7] Gonna leave this here: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/11246364/ Originally by: Mya ElleTerego Combat record for Toilarmius Lifetime Kills Losses 24 25 And no your not qualified to write this kind of crap. Go away. I suppose you grade your logistics pilots on how many killmails they've got too? (Yes, I still wub you) Originally by: Doshia KB are the only way to prove kills and without them people would just scream lier when others tell them of their accomplishments. And then there's people who post fake lossmails. Obviously killboards are a foolproof way to prove kills, losses, and PVP accomplishments. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
DonHel Gallente Kentucky Fried Capsuleer	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:48:00 - [8] Edited by: DonHel on 03/03/2011 17:50:53 Edited by: DonHel on 03/03/2011 17:49:51 Originally by: Mya ElleTerego Edited by: Mya ElleTerego on 03/03/2011 17:28:51 Short answer, No. Long answer we need that information at leadership levels to ensure our members aren't lacking in training, or discipline, or effectiveness. Also we need to know if they are going all sigarri faction pinata on us. Those factors can attract permanent roaming pvpers to your space, and some organizations wouldn't want that. Just because someone is terrible doesn't mean you always hold it against them, unless they joined the wrong corp. You dont come and join my corp and fit random trash on your ships, you will get booted out of hand, and ridiculed, by leadership and members. There are groups however, that will recruit those types of new players and try and mold them into something decent, see RvB, or factional warfare, lowsec scrub pirates, etc. Combat record for Toilarmius Lifetime Kills Losses 24 25 And no your not qualified to write this kind of crap. Go away. hey now! he did kill a rifter solo once... with a retriever.. rifter was pretty fail fit ofc lol edit: i take that back, he tickled a fail fit rifter while concord killed it
Arbryl	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:53:00 - [9] Wait, people stay in stations for fear of having lossmails posted? I usually stay in stations to avoid losing millions of isk.
Mya ElleTerego Amarr The Hull Miners Union Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Liang Nuren I suppose you grade your logistics pilots on how many killmails they've got too? (Yes, I still wub you) You know me all too well. ♥ Mya in a logi ship.

Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.03 17:57:00 - [11] Just remove the lossmails so the boards only show your amount of kills. That way people don't have to be afraid to engage slightly stronger gangs because it may hard their win/loss ratio or make them less attractive for corps who worry so much about their killboard standings. Furthermore it will only encourage people to do PvP; after all who cares about losing 3 ships if you still kill one? Lossmails is one of the most inhibiting things for a lot of people, you may find it silly but it works like that in EVE for a lot of people (I know a lot of them), perhaps even for the majority of PvP oriented players.
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Just remove the lossmails so the boards only show your amount of kills. That way people don't have to be afraid to engage slightly stronger gangs because it may hard their win/loss ratio or make them less attractive for corps who worry so much about their killboard standings. Furthermore it will only encourage people to do PvP; after all who cares about losing 3 ships if you still kill one? Lossmails is one of the most inhibiting things for a lot of people, you may find it silly but it works like that in EVE for a lot of people (I know a lot of them), perhaps even for the majority of PvP oriented players. If there's a killmail... That's also a lossmail for somebody... There's no such thing as overkill, only degrees of effectiveness.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:13:00 - [13] Every multiplayer game I have encountered which tracks stats has suffered for it. Not because stats are bad, but because of the tendency of players to become obsessed with them. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jame Jarl Retief	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:17:00 - [14] I'm new to the game, but not to gaming, and I kinda understand where you're coming from. Some people are so preoccupied with their kill:death ratio that they really lose sight of many things, including the fact that it is, after all, just a game. I've yet to experience the PvP aspect of EVE, but last game with a kill:death counter I played was BF:BC2, and there the kill****ing reached absurd levels. People would throw games, and hide in the bushes for 30 mins, losing the match in the process, just to come out with a 3-0 or 5-0 ratio, all in an effort to drive up their rating and make themselves seem superior. But I also don't think the mechanic has that effect on everyone. I had a deep negative kill:death ratio on my character in that game, because the only kills I got were accidental or defensive. I played an engineer, primarily as armor support. I kept our armor alive, and I made things difficult for the enemy armor. And I died for it. A lot. Didn't deter me in the slightest. But if I had to vote on this issue, I would vote for the removal of the killmails. I don't think they add to the gameplay, and speaking for myself I wouldn't bother with reporting kills unless the corp I'm in required it. Knowing that I won or lost is enough for me, I don't feel the need to tweet and facebook to the whole world about it.
Stephen Grover Cleveland	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:19:00 - [15] So what if they shun you for it? I say ignore the trolls. More power to you if you're willing to try something different. As per your question: no. While killboards can serve as a platform to demean based on a terrible fit or some other reason, they do provide a service for you to study what you were up against, and learn from your mistakes. (more killmails than anything, but killboards are basically an extension of them)
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Aiwha If there's a killmail... That's also a lossmail for somebody... Why should there be? Yes the killboard could still show who was the victim - but if you look up the victim it will only tell its kills, not its losses. That way the kill:loss ratio doesn't exist anymore without the need to remove interestring things like ship setups and such.
Desya Dak'ann Caldari Wraith.Wing	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:46:00 - [17] Its like telling a carebear hes no longer allowed to mine, or produce goods for the eve community THIS IS NOW A WIDOT FAILTHREAD!
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:51:00 - [18] bla bla bla give us war reports (similer to corp "confirmed kills" tab) and maybe some tabs with pretty graphs from the stats, and yes this applies to fw too!!!!
Xan So'Sarian	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:53:00 - [19] I support the removal of kill boards. Corporation:black-body Kills:140 Real kills:124 Losses:8 Damage done (ISK):68.13B Damage received (ISK):0.21B Chance of enemy survival:6.06% Pilot Efficiency (ISK):99.69% They do not actuarially reflect ones ability.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2011.03.03 18:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Liang Nuren Gonna leave this here: Link removed for inappropriate language. Zymurgist If I linked some fan fest vids would they be removed?

Misstress Iteron	Posted - 2011.03.03 19:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Doshia KB are the only way to prove kills and without them people would just scream lier when others tell them of their accomplishments. And then there's people who post fake lossmails. Obviously killboards are a foolproof way to prove kills, losses, and PVP accomplishments. -Liang API verified?
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.03 19:28:00 - [22] Edited by: AkJon Ferguson on 03/03/2011 19:29:00 So killboards discourage people from failfits (which seem to be rampant in spite of them) and this is a bad thing how? Killboards could definitely be improved (many of the stats that are prominently displayed (like kills/deaths) are essentially meaningless and the points system (which could be quite meaningful) could use a revamp.) And if CCP didn't fail so hard, killmail info (including podkills) would have been made accurate years ago. But removing them would be an insanely boneheaded move, even by CCP's standards. An imperfect scoreboard is better than no scoreboard at all. If you're such a wimp that you're not undocking because you're afraid someone will see your lossmail, you weren't cut out for PVP anyway.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.03 19:30:00 - [23] Originally by: AkJon Ferguson So killboards discourage people from failfits (which seem to be rampant in spite of them) and this is a bad thing how? Missing the point. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.03 19:34:00 - [24] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/03/2011 19:35:37 Originally by: AkJon Ferguson An imperfect scoreboard is better than no scoreboard at all. If you're such a wimp that you're not undocking because you're afraid someone will see your lossmail, you weren't cut out for PVP anyway. Which is valid for a lot of players. The effect is that a lot of people don't do PvP or go lowsec while they otherwise would have. So that's what you want, people staying in highsec? Well congratulations, you have it your way. Without any training options like arenas, no gain from PvP, loss of implants, killboard drama, CCP effectively causes a lot of players not to do PvP or only engage in blobs, and you agree with that. Well just don't come complaining lowsec is empty then. @Crumplecorn: how do you change signature so often? Very nice! :o
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.03.03 20:06:00 - [25] If they got rid of killmails they'd ruin all my interest in the game ... if anything they need to expand on this sort of thing, allowing people to see what others are doing in the universe. I'd like to see agents disclose who they've paid bounties too and the secure commerce association list the total brokerages fee's paid by each character each month and things like that. There've been countless threads on it, so i'm not going to rehash the arguments, but the long and short of it is that if I'm looking at combat as some fast twitch competition over the computer i've got dozens upon dozens of games like that.... lots of them fps and far better in terms of fair fights etc. What this game has that almost no others have is the abilty for players to shape the sustained virtual world around them. Its not all phyical changes but that who your neighbers are maters significantly in terms of dominance and markets etc. Making that story easier to access and spread overcoming time contraints and shortening the time fractal to gain that knowledge vs rl is vital to pushing this area of mmo play.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.03 20:43:00 - [26] Edited by: Barakkus on 03/03/2011 20:43:44 Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/03/2011 18:31:18 Originally by: Aiwha If there's a killmail... That's also a lossmail for somebody... Why should there be? Yes the killboard could still show who was the victim - but if you look up the victim it will only tell its kills, not its losses. That way the kill:loss ratio doesn't exist anymore without the need to remove interestring things like ship setups and such. Or even better: make the victim's name anonymus. Anonymous is about as useful as posting fake kill mails. One man's kill is another man's loss, you can't exactly kill someone who didn't lose anything can you? Killboards are not run by CCP, you would have to contact every killboard operator and tell them to remove losses. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.03 20:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Implying Implications It's this thread again. Yeah... it's sad. The same old trolls all over again.
Xuthi Minmatar EAT THE POOR	Posted - 2011.03.03 21:06:00 - [28] /agrees with OP.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.03.03 21:15:00 - [29] Hey, I have always been in favor of a complete removal of killmails and all the e-peen stroking nerds that goes with those. Unfortunately for me, some of those nerds are working for CCP. Well, at least "official killboards" have been kept out of the game, so I guess we can meet half way. Though, knowing the yearly cycle of forum topics it will not be long before some body asks why CCP haven't implemented those. -- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.03.03 21:24:00 - [30] Sounds like op got killed while flying a Ctrl + A + fit to ship fit.

Nomad Storm The Wandering Path	Posted - 2011.03.03 21:41:00 - [31] Why is it always assumed that anyone who would support killmails being removed must fly failfits and suck at pvp. Personally I have never understood why people care about killmails at all nor do I understand how collecting them could be a meaningful way of playing the game for anyone. It will never happen but I would be perfectly happy if CCP removed killmails.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.03 22:03:00 - [32] Sometimes I really wished this forum has polls .. sometimes it's severely lacking!
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.03 22:06:00 - [33] The new forums will have "likes". -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.03 22:51:00 - [34] No Killmails and killboards provide lots of juicy intel that can help you turn the tide in close battles. It is absolutely crazy what intel people post publicly and willingly and you are foolish if you don't use that information. About to fight a guy? Look up his fits. About to fight a corp? See their gang compositions Worried that scorp tackling you MAY be cynobait? Check to see if they are hotdrop happy Suck it up and get better stats, or take your crying behind somewhere far, far away. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:02:00 - [35] Originally by: Patient 2428190 No Killmails and killboards provide lots of juicy intel that can help you turn the tide in close battles. It is absolutely crazy what intel people post publicly and willingly and you are foolish if you don't use that information. About to fight a guy? Look up his fits. About to fight a corp? See their gang compositions Worried that scorp tackling you MAY be cynobait? Check to see if they are hotdrop happy Suck it up and get better stats, or take your crying behind somewhere far, far away. Those are all fantastic reasons to remove them. :) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.03.03 23:58:00 - [36] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Patient 2428190 No Killmails and killboards provide lots of juicy intel that can help you turn the tide in close battles. It is absolutely crazy what intel people post publicly and willingly and you are foolish if you don't use that information. About to fight a guy? Look up his fits. About to fight a corp? See their gang compositions Worried that scorp tackling you MAY be cynobait? Check to see if they are hotdrop happy Suck it up and get better stats, or take your crying behind somewhere far, far away. Those are all fantastic reasons to remove them. :) -Liang I agree, in general there is too much intel available in eve, give us back some fog of war. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided	Posted - 2011.03.04 00:12:00 - [37] Killmails Must Die ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ Tiericide
Ethan Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2011.03.04 00:18:00 - [38] I hope the OP dies irl (in game).
Medarr Amarr ZeroSec Excuses.	Posted - 2011.03.04 00:22:00 - [39] No.
Ildryn	Posted - 2011.03.04 03:58:00 - [40] Sounds good.

Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2011.03.04 04:06:00 - [41] I kinda felt this way, so my corp did something for lols. I bought a thousand T1 Frigs, thousands of T1 mods, and we go out on lol gangs. We loose most of the time, because really... how many Nano HAC or Drake gangs can loose ships to 4-7 T1 frigs. But we have fun. Folks arn't worried about the losses, or the fits. Killboards don't affect this. People who pvp a lot may worry about K:D ratios, or Isk lost:Isk killed, but who really cares if you are "fail fit" or not. I seem to remember a few years ago a certain corp pvping in Ravens when everyone KNEW they were "Fail PVP ships". Ravens were banned from fleet fights in most 0.0 alliance's. Yet this single corp racked up ENORMOUS kill:death ratios using these "fail fit" ships. I think it's more that the time it takes to make isk for the average(Average, not the 5 year vet) means they are risk averse. It can take seconds to loose a 300 mil isk fit BS. But days/Weeks for the "average" player to make that much isk back. ISK:hours of labor is probably more at fault for people being risk averse then killmails/killboards.
omgevenmoarfreemoniez	Posted - 2011.03.04 04:17:00 - [42] No way, get lost
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.04 04:28:00 - [43] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel I agree, in general there is too much intel available in eve, give us back some fog of war. It wouldn't make much of a difference, if you were really enemies with the people you are fighting, you'll have a spy in their fleet. It works in positive ways as well. You can check the killmails of people you respect to learn how to fit ships so you don't make failfit KMs of your own. It would suck if you had to go just on what EFT warriors post in Ships and Modules and Battleclinic "loadout experts" have to say about PvP fits in the game. It makes for a stronger game the more resources that are out there to learn and improve. If you want to test things or do "experimental" fits, fly on sisi. Join a different corp if you get too much static on your killboard stats and improve them. I know somebody who has posted around roughly 100 kills and no losses flying a stabbed, SPR drake in FW fleets. Is he good PvPer because he's well ahead of the K:D ratio? Not a chance. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Sebadai Ministry of War	Posted - 2011.03.04 04:31:00 - [44] No. Why should only vets have had the fun of kill whoring? Also I like that it tracks my progress without me having to remember making marks "manually". - Way of the Gun PROM4CSM
Amanda Mor Gallente	Posted - 2011.03.04 04:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Barakkus Edited by: Barakkus on 03/03/2011 20:43:44 Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/03/2011 18:31:18 Originally by: Aiwha If there's a killmail... That's also a lossmail for somebody... Why should there be? Yes the killboard could still show who was the victim - but if you look up the victim it will only tell its kills, not its losses. That way the kill:loss ratio doesn't exist anymore without the need to remove interestring things like ship setups and such. Or even better: make the victim's name anonymus. Anonymous is about as useful as posting fake kill mails. One man's kill is another man's loss, you can't exactly kill someone who didn't lose anything can you? Killboards are not run by CCP, you would have to contact every killboard operator and tell them to remove losses. You are completely missing what they are trying to say. If the actual killmail generated within the game simply blocked out the name of the victim, then the killboard operators would not have access to the information in the first place. There would be no need to ask them to remove the name of the losing party - it wouldnt exist for them anyway. I think this idea is actually a great one. People can still boast about their killmails, but not have to be embarassed by their lossmails (which wouldnt exist). You get the information you need on loadout and such of the enemy (plus the all important record of your victory), without having to defend yourself against the proverbial slings and arrows of a failfit you had 6 months previous, and the humiliation that goes along with it. The drawback to this is people who would go out and lose 500 ships to kill 100 enemies to inflate their kill counter, but since it encourages pvp (and costs them ISK), its not really a drawback at all, is it... ---------------------------------------------- I don't have an alt, but there's a main that would be upset if he heard me say that...
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2011.03.04 05:29:00 - [46] Edited by: Dian''h Might on 04/03/2011 05:33:08 edit: hit reply too soon How about we remove isk from the game? It's an easy solution to abate the woes of greedy pilots. My arguments: Capsuleer's are afraid to be identified as "bad at making isk". They don't want to be forever immortalized as "that guy/gal who keeps asking everyone for loans". It's usually considered socially unacceptable within the eve community to beg, or try out new strategies to make isk that they think might work (like t1 production). Why? Because most of the time people point and laugh as there is typically a general consensus on how to make isk efficiently without needlessly wasting time and effort. The isk/hour seems to matter. People won't even try to make isk if they feel it's a lost cause because other players can make more isk/hour than them. They will sit in station and spin their ship or buy plex to not "mess up" by trying to play the market and failing at it. It's not always that they can't recover from a bad trade, it's that it takes isk to make isk and they don't want to hurt their isk making potential by loosing some. Bragging right from talking in market discussion about how much isk one makes seems to occur somewhat frequently. Shouldn't universal stardom or infamy come from word of mouth and not meaningless integers? If you truly make a name for yourself, other capsuleers will spread the word of your actions on their own. In the end, I believe more capsuleers would undock or square off because the upkeep of appearances would be removed. Isn't the work itself more important then the outcome? I realize the removal of isk may also be the downfall for certain types of posts on these forums. What's more important to carebears, isk/hour, or actual gameplay? I present this post to you, my fellow forum friends. Please respond after you have sufficiently checked my stats, because that's what qualifies me to post this stuff, right? - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac"
Kuronaga Kantian Principle	Posted - 2011.03.04 05:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Dian'h Might Edited by: Dian''h Might on 04/03/2011 05:33:08 edit: hit reply too soon How about we remove isk from the game? It's an easy solution to abate the woes of greedy pilots. My arguments: Capsuleer's are afraid to be identified as "bad at making isk". They don't want to be forever immortalized as "that guy/gal who keeps asking everyone for loans". It's usually considered socially unacceptable within the eve community to beg, or try out new strategies to make isk that they think might work (like t1 production). Why? Because most of the time people point and laugh as there is typically a general consensus on how to make isk efficiently without needlessly wasting time and effort. The isk/hour seems to matter. People won't even try to make isk if they feel it's a lost cause because other players can make more isk/hour than them. They will sit in station and spin their ship or buy plex to not "mess up" by trying to play the market and failing at it. It's not always that they can't recover from a bad trade, it's that it takes isk to make isk and they don't want to hurt their isk making potential by loosing some. Bragging right from talking in market discussion about how much isk one makes seems to occur somewhat frequently. Shouldn't universal stardom or infamy come from word of mouth and not meaningless integers? If you truly make a name for yourself, other capsuleers will spread the word of your actions on their own. In the end, I believe more capsuleers would undock or square off because the upkeep of appearances would be removed. Isn't the work itself more important then the outcome? I realize the removal of isk may also be the downfall for certain types of posts on these forums. What's more important to carebears, isk/hour, or actual gameplay? I present this post to you, my fellow forum friends. Please respond after you have sufficiently checked my stats, because that's what qualifies me to post this stuff, right? Confusing troll is confusing. May I hit my head with a large rock now?
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.04 07:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Amanda Mor If the actual killmail generated within the game simply blocked out the name of the victim, then the killboard operators would not have access to the information in the first place. There would be no need to ask them to remove the name of the losing party - it wouldnt exist for them anyway. Then I could put a mod on my killboard so it would say API verified and I'd have around 5K kills after I randomly generate some KMs. Pass ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.03.04 07:18:00 - [49] Victim : this thread Corp: eveonline.com Alliance: CCP you know what im bored typing this out now.
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.04 07:24:00 - [50] no. they are the only way of indicating how successful a corp or alliance is at pvp. they are used as a bench mark for member participation and the only method available to allow verification of corp or alliance reimbursement. I would like to see changes, I.e. additional information on logistics pilots and the number of points they have repped.

Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:05:00 - [51] Originally by: Nomad Storm Personally I have never understood why people care about killmails at all nor do I understand how collecting them could be a meaningful way of playing the game for anyone. And what is your chosen meaningful way of playing the game? Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Patient 2428190 No Killmails and killboards provide lots of juicy intel that can help you turn the tide in close battles. It is absolutely crazy what intel people post publicly and willingly and you are foolish if you don't use that information. About to fight a guy? Look up his fits. About to fight a corp? See their gang compositions Worried that scorp tackling you MAY be cynobait? Check to see if they are hotdrop happy Suck it up and get better stats, or take your crying behind somewhere far, far away. Those are all fantastic reasons to remove them. :) -Liang I agree, in general there is too much intel available in eve, give us back some fog of war. Amen, there really is.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:14:00 - [52] Originally by: Patient 2428190 It would suck if you had to go just on what EFT warriors post in Ships and Modules and Battleclinic "loadout experts" have to say about PvP fits in the game. Actually that would rock. If everyone for some strange reason, lets say magic trick, had to come up with their own fits, or at least every corp had to draw on only in-house inspiration, that would be the single greatest change this game could ever get. Too bad it's not possible. Originally by: Amanda Mor If the actual killmail generated within the game simply blocked out the name of the victim, then the killboard operators would not have access to the information in the first place. There would be no need to ask them to remove the name of the losing party - it wouldnt exist for them anyway. I think this idea is actually a great one. People can still boast about their killmails, but not have to be embarassed by their lossmails (which wouldnt exist). You get the information you need on loadout and such of the enemy (plus the all important record of your victory), without having to defend yourself against the proverbial slings and arrows of a failfit you had 6 months previous, and the humiliation that goes along with it. The drawback to this is people who would go out and lose 500 ships to kill 100 enemies to inflate their kill counter, but since it encourages pvp (and costs them ISK), its not really a drawback at all, is it... I like it. 98% of the reason I play so carefully, skulking in the shadows, planning, stalking, instead of rushing in guns blazing without checking, is because I don't want embarrassing lossmails.
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Qui Shon I like it. 98% of the reason I play so carefully, skulking in the shadows, planning, stalking, instead of rushing in guns blazing without checking, is because I don't want embarrassing lossmails. If there were no killmails you'd find another reason for skulking To the OP - its a moronic idea dreamt up by individuals who DON'T WANT TO FIGHT ANYWAY.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Implying Implications It's this thread again. /thread ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:27:00 - [55] Originally by: Othran Originally by: Qui Shon I like it. 98% of the reason I play so carefully, skulking in the shadows, planning, stalking, instead of rushing in guns blazing without checking, is because I don't want embarrassing lossmails. If there were no killmails you'd find another reason for skulking Like what?
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.03.04 11:58:00 - [56] Originally by: Qui Shon . If there were no killmails the incentive to kill at all would be a hell of a lot lower. Fun, Tear harvesting, boredom, pretty explosion, pod squish, Protecting space assets, Using spare ammo, Just because, loot, local moderation, griefing, so the vicitm would buy the ships you stocked on the market, protecting your space honor, to make your local smack mean more because you back it up with torrents of gunfire I don't see any of those being affected by killmails ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
CraigGamerPsycho	Posted - 2011.03.04 12:09:00 - [57] Edited by: CraigGamerPsycho on 04/03/2011 12:13:32 Originally by: Patient 2428190 Originally by: Qui Shon . If there were no killmails the incentive to kill at all would be a hell of a lot lower. Fun, Tear harvesting, boredom, pretty explosion, pod squish, Protecting space assets, Using spare ammo, Just because, loot, local moderation, griefing, so the vicitm would buy the ships you stocked on the market, protecting your space honor, to make your local smack mean more because you back it up with torrents of gunfire I don't see any of those being affected by killmails Most people who are so into killmails don't really care about all that. Alot of them have nothing in their real life to show that they've achieved something so they rely on collecting killmails in EVE as a form of accomplishment. There are many no-lifers in EVE particularly in 0.0. I've come across many in the 2 years i've spent in 0.0 with 2 different Alliances. There may be those that disagree with this but they're clearly in denial. Personally i don't really care about killmail - reminds me of those kids who play COD on Xbox live and start boasting at the end of the match that they got the most kills.... I pvp for the some of the reasons mentioned in the quote i highlighted. Other times when i'm not pvping i'm Plexing, doing sanctums which i also enjoy.
Chopper Rollins Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.04 12:11:00 - [58] Right, right riiiiight. So this noob baiting einstein was smacking me in local right? Goes and posts my main's killboard from some site i've never seen and WOW that's right i killed a dramiel in npc 0.0 doing 1/3rd the dmg with one other person in the fight on my side. Oh and hey oh yeah all the kills are at least a ship class higher, except one, and ALL the losses are to bigger/more opponents. Stats wise, still a lol killboard, but not bad for someone who doesn't give a rat's about pvp. P.S. Not all the kills and losses are there, because i didn't tend it like a little garden of ego and not everybody posts their uglier losses. Your stats are science-fiction and your epeens are holograms.
Neamus	Posted - 2011.03.04 12:56:00 - [59] I think KM and KB should stay in, its a good way for those that enjoy that aspect of the game to, well, enjoy it. And as long as you learn from your mistakes then getting caught with a fail-fit and laughed at a bit isn't such a big deal. It just means you do it a bit better next time, until hopefully at some point you start to win a few..
Freya Gleamingstar Amarr Shrike County	Posted - 2011.03.04 13:02:00 - [60] OP 1/10 troll, cant believe its serious. I'll bite anyway. Killboards are a much more useful tool than the tool in the OP - Corp/Alliance base compensation packages often based on verified Losses - Corp/Alliance use leaderboards for prizes and incentives - Yes, to monitor activity of targets or colleagues. - Past activity on potential applicants (especially those who claim to have a lot of past experience) All that aside, if you dont like Killboards, no-one forces you to use them. [color=#FF0000]{SGX}<AM> Curmudgeon and Veteran Sabre Rattler[/color]

Meridith Akesia Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.03.04 13:54:00 - [61] I do dumb things. I lose ships in stupid situations. Do you think i care what someone else on the internet thinks about me?
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.04 15:04:00 - [62] Originally by: Patient 2428190 Originally by: Qui Shon . If there were no killmails the incentive to kill at all would be a hell of a lot lower. Fun, Tear harvesting, boredom, pretty explosion, pod squish, Protecting space assets, Using spare ammo, Just because, loot, local moderation, griefing, so the vicitm would buy the ships you stocked on the market, protecting your space honor, to make your local smack mean more because you back it up with torrents of gunfire I don't see any of those being affected by killmails Tear harvesting is for sadists, people who get a kick out of making someone else feel bad. That's not me. Same for griefing, not something I want to be a part of. I don't local smack, and if I'm bored I can go get instant PvP in WoT or some other game. Loot is nice but PvP income will never amount to even 10% of PvE income. Protecting space assets sure, but don't have to do that very often in w-space. Just because sure, but that's still less incentive then if you get a few more points on the scoreboard. I protect my space honor by always keeping my word, not exploiting, and generally trying to be an amicable chap, even when I'm attacking someone. In short, there are many reasons to shoot other pilots in Eve, but a scoreboard is a must in any competitive game. Without one, there's still incentive, but it's less then with a scoreboard, that also helps form discussion with corpies about said kills or losses, even if you weren't in on it.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2011.03.04 15:13:00 - [63] Edited by: Qui Shon on 04/03/2011 15:13:06 Originally by: CraigGamerPsycho Most people who are so into killmails don't really care about all that. Alot of them have nothing in their real life to show that they've achieved something so they rely on collecting killmails in EVE as a form of accomplishment. There are many no-lifers in EVE particularly in 0.0. I've come across many in the 2 years i've spent in 0.0 with 2 different Alliances. There may be those that disagree with this but they're clearly in denial. Personally i don't really care about killmail - reminds me of those kids who play COD on Xbox live and start boasting at the end of the match that they got the most kills.... I pvp for the some of the reasons mentioned in the quote i highlighted. Other times when i'm not pvping i'm Plexing, doing sanctums which i also enjoy. So wanting to have some measuring stick for progress in a game means you're a no-lifer, I see There was a time when I reasoned a bit like this, didn't care about km's at all and thought people that did silly. But the problem with Eve, is that most of the PvP that goes on isn't part of some solid strategy for lasting control of space or market or x, rather it's just PvP for its own sake, and the rest is engagements so big where one guy doesn't matter much, if he isn't alliance leadership. I don't really want to be involved in anything bigger then 10vs10, since I want what I do to matter, and politics isn't an option. Without W-space, I prolly wouldn't even be playing this game anymore.
Eve Industrialist	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:11:00 - [64] This is not a comment for or against kill mails. Merely an observation. Hulkageddon contest would not be possibe without kill mails of some kind. I see both pro and con to preceding statement so is not argument 4 1 side or the other. From a purely dev pov I would like to see kills thru api key even if person did not get final blow.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:26:00 - [65] My first year in game, my main flew in militia. Lots of big fights. Even if we lost 20 ships and only killed 15, if I happened to be in a ship that got primaried last, I got on all 15 kills while taking only one loss. WOW! 15 to 1 kill ratio, just by flying tank fits instead of gank fits, even if we lost every fight.... Flip this around to another corp where I was in where fights were usually more like 5 v 5. My kill/loss ratio was no nearly as good. Kill board stats are totally meaningless.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.03.04 21:28:00 - [66] Originally by: LHA Tarawa My first year in game, my main flew in militia. Lots of big fights. Even if we lost 20 ships and only killed 15, if I happened to be in a ship that got primaried last, I got on all 15 kills while taking only one loss. WOW! 15 to 1 kill ratio, just by flying tank fits instead of gank fits, even if we lost every fight.... Flip this around to another corp where I was in where fights were usually more like 5 v 5. My kill/loss ratio was no nearly as good. Kill board stats are totally meaningless. Most Kill board stats the way they're commonly kept are meaningless But "Kill mails" and "Killboard stats" are two seperate things. Battle clinic uses some alternative scoring metrics and also crunches some data in other somewhat interesting ways like seeing who your "associates" have been in order of frequency etc. Its kind of fun to see who you've fleeted with and that has nothing to do and success ratio value. It does add to the richness of the game experience for me, being able to peruse what I did in the past, or look at other characters hisotries too. Its part of the Immersion and the idea of a persistent universe. The killboards are the "backstory" ...not the silly puff about minmataur and caldari etc that mean nothing to actual game environment. There is a lot of data that can be put together in diffent ways, and one of these days the big killboards are going to let you query them in ways of anyone's choosing. Maybe you want to ignore all fights with more than 8 pilots involved . It would be great to be able to query who participated in over 20 kills in a given system between two different dates... ... just who are the biggest pvp inhabitants in old man star? that sort of question might be interesting to me.. but the stats themselves wouldn't be like the ones at the top statistically had any more value. .. i'd look at the actual kills and might notice that some guys liked to spar with each other in t1 frigs and had lots of kills against each other and others like to gank strangers at the gates. That sort of information has to do with the history of the old man star region.. its the back story and the color of the world we inhabit. It will be great when database mechanics and cost of maintenance drop to the point where querying that sort of stuff is a snap.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2011.03.04 21:46:00 - [67] Originally by: Crumplecorn So killboards discourage people from failfits (which seem to be rampant in spite of them) and this is a bad thing how? Crumplecorn nailed it.
Aeo IV Amarr Oneironautics Research Institute	Posted - 2011.03.04 21:54:00 - [68] I support the adding of asteroid killmails and Sansha incursion npcs posting killmails to sansha incursion npc killboards.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.03.04 21:59:00 - [69] Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Originally by: Crumplecorn So killboards discourage people from failfits (which seem to be rampant in spite of them) and this is a bad thing how? Crumplecorn nailed it. lol I didn't say that - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
captain foivos	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Toilarmius An easy solution to abate the woes of PvP hungry pilots. What woes? Originally by: Toilarmius Capsuleer's are afraid to be idnetified with a "bad" fit. They don't want to be forever immortalized as "that failfit guy/gal". It's usually considered socially unacceptable within the Eve community to try out new fits, or things they may believe work. Why? Because most of the time people point and laugh as there is typically a general consensus on how to fit each ship class for PvP. Well there's a reason people don't mount rocket launchers and heavy beam lasers on Ravens. Ships in EVE were designed for specific roles. Taking advantage of those roles to maximum effect usually narrows down variation in ship fits considerably. Originally by: Toilarmius Epeens shrink with "evidence" of killboards/killmails. Aren't you just a regular old Sherlock Holmes. Originally by: Toilarmius The number of wins/losses seem to matter. That's probably because they do. Originally by: Toilarmius People won't undock or engage if they feel it a losing cause, or have even the slightest doubt. They will hide or do whatever possible not to "mess up" or further deteriorate their killboard. It's not always that a pilot can't replace their ship, it's sometimes that they don't want to take a stat hit. Let me fix that for you. Originally by: Toilarmius I won't undock or engage if I feel it a losing cause, or have even the slightest doubt. I will hide or do whatever possible not to "mess up" or further deteriorate my killboard. It's not always that I can't replace my ship, it's sometimes that I don't want to take a stat hit. Originally by: Toilarmius Bragging rights from posting and checking of killboards seem to occur frequently. Well where else are bragging rights supposed to come from? Killboards are the only proof an engagement ever happened. Originally by: Toilarmius Shouldn't universal stardom or infamy come from word of mouth and not killboards? Arguable premise that you do not support with evidence. Originally by: Toilarmius If you truly make a name for yourself, other capsuleers will spread the word of your actions on their own. Mmmhmm, like Istvaan Shogatsuu or Chribba. This already happens. How will killboards being removed change this? Originally by: Toilarmius In the end, I believe more capsuleers would undock or square off because the upkeep of appearances would be removed. Isn't the fight itself more important then the outcome? Originally by: Vin Diesel It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning. Originally by: Sean Connery Losers whine about doing their best. Winners go home and ** the prom queen. Originally by:** Toilarmius I realize the removal of these may also be the downfall for certain types of posts on these forums. What's more important to PvP'ers, proof or GTFO posts, or actual PvP? I think you fail to understand that 99% of this game is about ego. Originally by: Toilarmius I present this post to you, my fellow furry forum friends. Please respond after you have sufficiently checked my stats, because that's what qualifies me to post this stuff, right? yiff yiff in hell -- Need a break from EVE?

Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:04:00 - [71] Edited by: Arnakoz on 04/03/2011 22:04:27 really, with the thousands that get killed a day you;re worried that you'll earn a rep for having a fail fit? further, you're worried that you'll have a bad rep, at all?
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:06:00 - [72] Burn all books! --
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:57:00 - [73] Originally by: Freya Gleamingstar All that aside, if you dont like Killboards, no-one forces you to use them. That's not really true. Both killmails and loss mails are generated, and I only have control of one. Though I have to admit that a lot of people don't post loss mails. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Karbowiak	Posted - 2011.03.05 00:26:00 - [74] I understand where you are coming from, but i dont understand where it is you are trying to go. If people start to not play the game properly, cause they might failfit a ship in someones eyes - and die. And then end up with eternal ridicule cause of it. Then its their loss, not mine. Killmails does more than just provide an e-peen, or the opposite (whats that, e-gina?) - they are also a valuable intel tool. Intel tool how? well: 1) Can tell people who build stuff what is the mostly used, and optimize profit (We've seen this happen already at EVE-KILL) 2) Fitting database, find the highest occurance of similar fits, group them - and you can get the most used fit in all of EVE. 3) ISK stats (Lost, killed) 4) Which ships a pilot, corp, alliance most usually flies (And what their playstyle MIGHT be) and the list continues. So in all fairness, no - killmails should most definetly not be removed. Killmails are as much EVE as all the whining carebears are. That and if CCP removed killmails - i wouldn't have a reason for having my great big servers.. Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.03.05 00:45:00 - [75] Originally by: Aeo IV I support the adding of asteroid killmails and Sansha incursion npcs posting killmails to sansha incursion npc killboards. Me too. Why wouldn't the sansha publish kill propaganda to demoralize the opposition? As for the asteroids, ...almost. The refinery tax boards could report payments they recieve by pilot or somthing like that. Its great to think of systems having occupants and get a glimmer of their history when passing through... I try to get an ideal of the industial history of towns as I drive through them, on road trips , look at the papers for ideas of housing prices in an area... figure out how they got their name, or what geogrpahic feature lead to the the location becoming inhabited.. We can't have everthing, but Eve is about players not NPCs and disclosing player info makes for more content for more people to be aware of .. Player histories are content. (it dawned on me that we do have some information about how many missions people have run for given agents via the publically available standing information. Being able to see some timing on that would be great too. It would also be great to be able to click on a corp and see its history of war decs issued and recieved. More content for us to enjoy.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.03.05 00:53:00 - [76] Originally by: Doshia Edited by: Doshia on 03/03/2011 17:33:34 KB are the only way to prove kills and without them people would just scream lier when others tell them of their accomplishments. SCREENSHOTS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!!111oneone ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Zesoft	Posted - 2011.03.05 01:09:00 - [77] Originally by: Mya ElleTerego Originally by: Liang Nuren I suppose you grade your logistics pilots on how many killmails they've got too? (Yes, I still wub you) You know me all too well. ♥ Mya in a logi ship. Alright, seriously, your avatar looks like it belongs in a casting call for the natives in Avatar.
Herrring Amarr Caldari Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2011.03.05 01:34:00 - [78] Edited by: Herrring on 05/03/2011 01:34:14 a couple of solo pvpers(as in solo pvp i mean afk cloaking for 12 hours and killing ratting ships mostly) dont post their loss or kill mails. Why would they? They dont really belong in a corp or alliance, they just want the tears and are having fun while doing it. Also it wont expose their fits if they lose ships, if some noob on the killing side forgot to post a killmail. So if you fly solo and dont care about stats I would actually recommend not posting your loss mails at least.
Val Amora	Posted - 2011.03.05 01:34:00 - [79] I wish CCP would implement an official, automated killboard. It wouldn't be called a 'kill board' per se, but a combat reporter. People could opt in / out, or hide their public information for intel purposes, much like certificates. It could be included in full API, so you could show corps you apply to, or **** with it in an application. It makes complete sense imo, because your ships are going to be registered within the universe, and when one gets blown to bits, it probably phones home.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.05 08:31:00 - [80] Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online


Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:05:00 - [81] If you removed killboards, EVE I think would suffer as a game. I've not cared about them much cept when in alliances that required them. However they are a major driving force for the pvp community. Without that community there is no eve as they account for the majority of all purchases of ships and equipment and ammo etc. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. [orange]Your signature is to
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:18:00 - [82] Originally by: CraigGamerPsycho Edited by: CraigGamerPsycho on 04/03/2011 12:13:32 Originally by: Patient 2428190 Originally by: Qui Shon . If there were no killmails the incentive to kill at all would be a hell of a lot lower. Fun, Tear harvesting, boredom, pretty explosion, pod squish, Protecting space assets, Using spare ammo, Just because, loot, local moderation, griefing, so the vicitm would buy the ships you stocked on the market, protecting your space honor, to make your local smack mean more because you back it up with torrents of gunfire I don't see any of those being affected by killmails Most people who are so into killmails don't really care about all that. Alot of them have nothing in their real life to show that they've achieved something so they rely on collecting killmails in EVE as a form of accomplishment. There are many no-lifers in EVE particularly in 0.0. I've come across many in the 2 years i've spent in 0.0 with 2 different Alliances. There may be those that disagree with this but they're clearly in denial. Personally i don't really care about killmail - reminds me of those kids who play COD on Xbox live and start boasting at the end of the match that they got the most kills.... I pvp for the some of the reasons mentioned in the quote i highlighted. Other times when i'm not pvping i'm Plexing, doing sanctums which i also enjoy. that's no reason to remove killmails or killboards though. many corps and alliances with allot of members use them as a sole method of participation levels (too many people sit and rat all day long and let others defend territory while they get rich which isn't very helpful), campaign success or failure (important for a variety of reasons), verify loss reimbursment (essential for sov alliances) etc. its also used to track member participation in other ways I.e. seeing who is missing cta's in favour of camping gates for easy kills or who's being a numpty and got caught ratting in capital ships or killed missioning and in high sec during a war dec. I've read every post on this and haven't seen a good reason yet to remove killboards or mails. the only thing it points out is alterations are needed I.e. a central ccp run killboard and stats site, additional stats for logistics or dictor bubbles aiding ship kills but mainly a need for a centralised killboard. don't get me wrong, I pvp for fun but there's more to killmails than buffing someones ego or denting a losers pride.
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:30:00 - [83] Originally by: LHA Tarawa My first year in game, my main flew in militia. Lots of big fights. Even if we lost 20 ships and only killed 15, if I happened to be in a ship that got primaried last, I got on all 15 kills while taking only one loss. WOW! 15 to 1 kill ratio, just by flying tank fits instead of gank fits, even if we lost every fight.... Flip this around to another corp where I was in where fights were usually more like 5 v 5. My kill/loss ratio was no nearly as good. Kill board stats are totally meaningless. you know that you can display them as a battle? that's not meaningless at all as it will show your loss in reference to all the other ones. in fact it maybe useful as it will show primaries on order so you can work out a different tactic for next time so you won't lose. I.e a curse was called primary first, next time round have the logistics be repping the curse when it all kicks off to avoid that loss.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.03.06 00:29:00 - [84] What if you only got 0.05 kill if you kill 1 ship with 20 pilots? After 20 kills you still only get 1 kill ...


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