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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.02.03 17:38:00 -
[31]
And another thing Amarr do best... 
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.02.03 18:03:00 -
[32]
Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 03/02/2005 18:02:49
Apples and oranges...
The Gallente continue to have the 'top drawer' tech 1 industrial.
Let me turn the question on its head: do you really think it would have been acceptable for the Gallente to have the 'top drawer' tech 2 industrial also?
Is the answer: 'sure, so long as it doesn't go to the Amarr'?
How petty, if so. (I'm not a hauling-freak btw and I don't care frankly so don't have a go because I am Amarr - I actually prefer Min ships for all their flaws.)
Let's be clear:
Anyone who has the ability to buy the transport skill (30m), buy the Impel when they get built (30-50m? More?) from the fruits of.. what? a few days hauling in your precious Iteron Vs? Less? Such a person has more than had their money's worth from that oh so tortuous month of training time.
You'll still be making piles of money while you wait for Amarr V, Industry V and Transport Ships I in your Iteron Vs just to get that extra 1.4k m3.
What utter, dreadful whinging. Far worse than any I've seen about combat ship inequalities and the people whinging already fly the best tech 1 cargo hauler! Abysmal.
The Cos
PS. ...and if you aren't making at least the kind of money per day I suggest in your Iteron Vs then you are not the uber-haulers you claim to be.
The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine |
Drusilla
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Posted - 2005.02.03 18:37:00 -
[33]
Actually, it's apples and apples in this case.
Considering that, at the moment, the ONLY thing the Gallente have as top drawer is hauling, yes, I think it would be totally fair for them to have the best tech 2 hauler. That's the point of it. The one thing that Gallente ships could lay claim to as being best at was hauling. Every other ship class is outperformed by other race's ships.
The fact that the best one went to Amarr is only really relevant because:
A> Amarr seem to have become the central point around which all the best stuff is focused, and...
B> They already had the second best industrial around in terms of utility for time invested since the Bestower only needed level 1 in skill training to use.
I have nothing against Amarr. I have something against the best of the other races slowly being given to just one race's ships regardless of which race is the beneficiary of this.
And frankly, since you're not a hauler player and are not one of the many that are faced with the need to essentially discard a month and a half of skill points just to get teh the same point they were at before (top notch hauler) I don't really think you have much leg to stand on to call anyone upset by this any names.
Before you offer your insults, why not throw away 1,280,000 of your own skill points and see how bitter THAT tastes?
 Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 03/02/2005 18:02:49
Apples and oranges...
The Gallente continue to have the 'top drawer' tech 1 industrial.
Let me turn the question on its head: do you really think it would have been acceptable for the Gallente to have the 'top drawer' tech 2 industrial also?
Is the answer: 'sure, so long as it doesn't go to the Amarr'?
How petty, if so. (I'm not a hauling-freak btw and I don't care frankly so don't have a go because I am Amarr - I actually prefer Min ships for all their flaws.)
Let's be clear:
Anyone who has the ability to buy the transport skill (30m), buy the Impel when they get built (30-50m? More?) from the fruits of.. what? a few days hauling in your precious Iteron Vs? Less? Such a person has more than had their money's worth from that oh so tortuous month of training time.
You'll still be making piles of money while you wait for Amarr V, Industry V and Transport Ships I in your Iteron Vs just to get that extra 1.4k m3.
What utter, dreadful whinging. Far worse than any I've seen about combat ship inequalities and the people whinging already fly the best tech 1 cargo hauler! Abysmal.
The Cos
PS. ...and if you aren't making at least the kind of money per day I suggest in your Iteron Vs then you are not the uber-haulers you claim to be.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.02.03 18:56:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 03/02/2005 19:02:22
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Quote:
I remember when 7k cargo was l33t.. now.. you can move an entire corp's hangar with one trip.
Excellent choice of words.
Sometimes it's all too easy to figure out what you're thinking 
The only thing WRONG with the Sigil is is whould require Amarr indy 3 to use.
And for reference, I have a Wreathe BPO :P (Agent rewards ++)
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Smiling Amarr
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Posted - 2005.02.03 19:37:00 -
[35]
Hammer mentioned in another thread that the speed of the sigil is a typo. Its supposed to be 155.
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.02.03 19:59:00 -
[36]
As is the mass listed. Can we move on?
There will be few pilots that load the deepspace tech 2 indies with all expanders, it does not play to their strengths well. They will use insta's, sure, but they will tank them at least a bit to take advantage of their strengths, and to survive insta-lock gank squads firing at extreme range.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, stick with a tech 1 industrial.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Shadex De'Marr
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Posted - 2005.02.03 20:01:00 -
[37]
Anyone else notice that the only posters in this thread that are pulling out the lame "like some whine with that cheese" crap are... Amarr players. BALETED!
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.02.03 20:42:00 -
[38]
Also, Hammer has stated that both the high speed and the high mass of the Sigil are typos, and should be a lot lower.
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.02.03 21:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Drusilla
Actually, it's apples and apples in this case.
It just isn't. Sorry but tech 1 vs tech 2 is just not apples and apples.
Quote:
Considering that, at the moment, the ONLY thing the Gallente have as top drawer is hauling, yes, I think it would be totally fair for them to have the best tech 2 hauler. That's the point of it. The one thing that Gallente ships could lay claim to as being best at was hauling. Every other ship class is outperformed by other race's ships.
So probably the best tech 1 cruiser is ignored? (Name your choice if you disagree)
Arguably (very arguably but still) the strongest HAC is ignored?
One of the best interceptors is ignored?
Excellent Assault Frigs... ignored?
One of the best mining battleships is ignored? (Arguably the best for hostile zone solo mining)
A fine range of tech 1 frigates is just... yeah, ignored?
The fact that the Gallente have a range of haulers for all pockets and uses... is... ignored?
Get real. The 'thron has issues (I concede it does) and all Gallente wail 'we have no good ships other than our precious hauler'? Come on.
Quote:
A> Amarr seem to have become the central point around which all the best stuff is focused, and...
A myth. Just like the 'gallente have no good ships anymore' is a myth.
Quote:
B> They already had the second best industrial around in terms of utility for time invested since the Bestower only needed level 1 in skill training to use.
Fair comment. But CCP should have given the Amarr two indys to begin with. The reality is that with only one class available it was inevitable. If we'd had Sigil from day one the Bessie could have been Amarr Indy 3.
Quote:
And frankly, since you're not a hauler player and are not one of the many that are faced with the need to essentially discard a month and a half of skill points just to get teh the same point they were at before (top notch hauler) I don't really think you have much leg to stand on to call anyone upset by this any names.
1) I've called nobody any names. I've described certain remarks as whinging - which is what they are.
2) I'm sorry but 'throw away' skill points is just nonsense. You and I have no idea what may require those ranks in Gallente Indy in the future. You've had great benefit from that training already. Just because it no longer makes you 'top notch' until the freighters come out (I'm assuming you haul for trade because, I'm sorry, the Impel with 7 expanders would be problematical as a mining hauler IMO) is no reason to cry foul.
3) I have hauled for trade in my time, I'm just not utterly obsessed with the numbers.
4) Are you people really incapable of coping with change? Do you know how many times one or other fighting ship skill or combat-related skill has been temporarily rendered useless in the course of this game?
Finally: Freighters, Freighters, Freighters.
If you haul for trade they will blow every indy tech 1 or tech 2 out of space in terms of cargo.
This is an interim situation. Moan if and when you Gallente are shat on re the freighters. I may even support you if that happens. 
The Cos
NOTE: have to repeat this for at least one other's benefit - I prefer Minmatar ships to Amarr, OK? plus I've said my say and I realise it won't persuade some. No personal ill will towards anyone has been intended by my remarks.
The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine |
benwallace
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Posted - 2005.02.03 22:33:00 -
[40]
sigil is bugged ccp said that its supposed to have a base of 155m/s not 255m/s
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Phoenix Pryde
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Posted - 2005.02.03 22:34:00 -
[41]
Whats all this whining about ?
Gallente get exactly what they deserve ...
You wouldnt really expect these treehugging arrogant selfdiluded fools to get anything right, would you ? right ... 
And as was already pointed out ... again for the treehuggers and their lovers ... the new Transports are NO normal indies ... and you dont really wanna put 7 locals on an Impel, do you ? ... i mean ... 22m/s ... only a treehugger could consider that ...
XTECH t2 sales: www.ii-inc.org/xtech |
Drusilla
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Posted - 2005.02.03 22:47:00 -
[42]
Hauling anywhere I had instas? Heck yes I would put 7 expanders in it.
Originally by: Phoenix Pryde
Whats all this whining about ?
Gallente get exactly what they deserve ...
You wouldnt really expect these treehugging arrogant selfdiluded fools to get anything right, would you ? right ...
And as was already pointed out ... again for the treehuggers and their lovers ... the new Transports are NO normal indies ... and you dont really wanna put 7 locals on an Impel, do you ? ... i mean ... 22m/s ... only a treehugger could consider that ...
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Mad Bomber
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Posted - 2005.02.03 22:52:00 -
[43]
Im sorry your whining over 1.5k of carge space.
[Sarcasm]
Why cant my apoc be the most uber in the game?
[/sarcasm]
The Amarr indy is the best? in total hold yes, but with few minmatar ships around (might change with the patch), the thermal/kinetic resists are better suited I think.
What do I care, not like im ever gonna fly 1
Amarr 4 teh win
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Ukutora Ozugas
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Posted - 2005.02.03 22:57:00 -
[44]
This game isn't about balance.
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.02.03 23:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: benwallace
sigil is bugged ccp said that its supposed to have a base of 155m/s not 255m/s
It's suck. I already trained skills for it and bought a bloody thing
in hope of having a nice fast hauler. 
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Turboneger
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Posted - 2005.02.04 03:44:00 -
[46]
I dont see why the amarr shouldn't get a great hauler. All they had untill now was the bessy. Now theres finally a reason to train for amarr indy lvl5.
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tenp1
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Posted - 2005.02.04 04:20:00 -
[47]
Given the choice between
1. a cheap easily obtainable and easy to replace ship with the best tech 1 cargo space and second best overall cargo space.
or
2. a VERY slighly better cargo, good defence, slow ass, way overpriced (you know they will be), expensive to loose and difficult to replace ship (the ship alone would probably be worth more than the cargo 9/10 times).
I'd go for option 1, and that is the MKV. Going by your statement, noone would have trained anything but gally indy, but as we all know there is more to indys choice than just straight cargo space. Why do you think there are so many mammoth pilots, they take less time to train than a MKV but have a decent amount of cargo space as a trade off even if it's not as good as MKV. The bestower may not be the best indy since castor but it still is up to level 3, that is enough for most etc.
Ok so the MKV is no longer the biggest hauler, but so what, it is still has a lot more going for it than the ship that has just a tiny bit more m3 than it.
And yes I do use a MKV myself and personally I am not bothered, nor do i feel I wasted time training for it.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.04 07:10:00 -
[48]
Personally I think the lev 5 skill fest CCP are on at the mo is just silly.
It actually puts older players off, when they really need a shot of something new, but instead they get handed several months training for a new frigate. lol
But then if ya want to see silly checkout the Mining crystal skill requirements for us 'miners'.
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.02.04 17:18:00 -
[49]
Just to let you know it only has five low slots...
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Dukath
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Posted - 2005.02.04 18:40:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Dukath on 04/02/2005 18:40:54
Whats wrong with a ship doing 22m/s?
Every hauler has a full set of instajumps and instadocks. Haulers don't travel, they only jump and warp. Who cares what the top speed is.
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4 LOM
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Posted - 2005.02.04 18:49:00 -
[51]
Originally by: tenp1
Given the choice between
1. a cheap easily obtainable and easy to replace ship with the best tech 1 cargo space and second best overall cargo space.
or
2. a VERY slighly better cargo, good defence, slow ass, way overpriced (you know they will be), expensive to loose and difficult to replace ship (the ship alone would probably be worth more than the cargo 9/10 times).
I'd go for option 1, and that is the MKV. Going by your statement, noone would have trained anything but gally indy, but as we all know there is more to indys choice than just straight cargo space. Why do you think there are so many mammoth pilots, they take less time to train than a MKV but have a decent amount of cargo space as a trade off even if it's not as good as MKV. The bestower may not be the best indy since castor but it still is up to level 3, that is enough for most etc.
Ok so the MKV is no longer the biggest hauler, but so what, it is still has a lot more going for it than the ship that has just a tiny bit more m3 than it.
And yes I do use a MKV myself and personally I am not bothered, nor do i feel I wasted time training for it.
so true, i am no hauling person but if i decided to be i would still train gal industrial level 5, stop being such a winner the iteron V is still uber good
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.02.04 19:06:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Saerid
Has plenty of room for cargo, indeedy. Too bad it can't move anywhere with it. Does 55 m/s with 7 local hulls, 20 m/s with expander IIs (should they be released some day)? You can practically feel the wind in your hair when you're barreling down the highway at top speed.
As for the EW and Missiles..gimme.
Might be of interest
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Droidster
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Posted - 2005.02.04 19:31:00 -
[53]
I agree. This move is totally bogus.
Up to now I have not flown other race's indys on principle but even I will switch.
Thanks for nothing CCP.
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.02.04 19:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Droidster
I agree. This move is totally bogus.
Up to now I have not flown other race's indys on principle but even I will switch.
Thanks for nothing CCP.
How exactly is it a principle if youre abandoning it the second it is no longer the absolute best?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.02.04 23:12:00 -
[55]
Eh...it only has 5 low slots now folks...the skill req's are still messed up as its on par with the Mammoth (nearly) without the amount of skill needed.
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Shinca
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Posted - 2005.02.05 16:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Damien Vox
Eh...it only has 5 low slots now folks...the skill req's are still messed up as its on par with the Mammoth (nearly) without the amount of skill needed.
I think the complaining was about the T2 indys aka Transport ships, not the new Amarr T1 indy. Sigil, the new T1 Amarr indy has 5 low slots, Impel, the Amar transport ship has 7 low slots.
And BTW, do you know many people with Amarr indy at lvl5? Didn't think so. So basicaly someone with Gallente indy at lvl5 can start using the T2 indy as soon as they come into game while you can start training Amarr indy 5 as anyone else and later switch. So you are still ahead, except for the 2 or so days you need to get Amarr indy to lvl 4.
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(\_/)
(X.x)
(> <) WTB cookbook with bunny recipes |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.02.05 17:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dukath
Edited by: Dukath on 04/02/2005 18:40:54
Whats wrong with a ship doing 22m/s?
Every hauler has a full set of instajumps and instadocks. Haulers don't travel, they only jump and warp. Who cares what the top speed is.
Then again, traders can't have BM's everywhere we go.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.02.05 20:15:00 -
[58]
I'll repeat this.
2 words: Insta-lock Ganking.
< 2 second lock time and more than enough firepower to destroy an indy before it has a chance to warp to that handy instajump point.
If you are hauling in an area that hasn't had to deal with this yet, then count your blessings and fit your new Tech 2 indy with all expanders. Enjoy it while it lasts.
For those that live in more dangerous area's, you know that at least some of those low slots will be handy to keep your ship alive to actually reach its destination.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Clarence Bodicker
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Posted - 2005.02.05 21:03:00 -
[59]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Originally by: Droidster
I agree. This move is totally bogus.
Up to now I have not flown other race's indys on principle but even I will switch.
Thanks for nothing CCP.
How exactly is it a principle if youre abandoning it the second it is no longer the absolute best?
This whining is great. Keep it coming.
--------------------------------------------------
Criminal Connections Rank(3) SP: 76549/768000
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a= |
Devineflid
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Posted - 2005.02.05 21:03:00 -
[60]
wow, i wonder why they gave it good resistances, and the smaller ones even get +2 wcs built in...i mean they couldn't have made it shout "tank me and use me to escape hostile places" if the ships were actually called that.
and if you wish to use them for purposes intended, even on instas, with 1 med slot the amarr one is just food for any inty/af/fast lock pilot with a scrambler and some spare time on its hands, whereas the gal one can fit 2 multispecs and escape pretty much any frig at least that approaches it without much trouble, any inty pilot knows there is nothing more annoying than a hauler with jammers.
if you're gonna look at a ship, look at the entire ship, the gal one is better for its intended purpose, which is worth dropping 1.5k cargo.
Devster
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Have you ever wondered who was responsible for the "do not attempt to stop chain with hand or genitals" type notes on things? well it was me, or at le |
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