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Drusilla	Posted - 2005.02.03 04:41:00 - [1] Ok, ocne more Amarr gets the best stuff. The dedicated haulers of EVE, who have spent over a month of training time to get to that Iteron 5, while Amarr pilots got almost as much hauling with one level in industrial skill, have just been screwed. Now we all have to train that STUPID Amarr industrial skill for a frigging month to get to the top of our game again. Why? Becuase CCP game the Amarr a Transport Ship with high basic cargo, the 25% bonus from Amarr industrial, and SEVEN low slots. With 7x 27.44% epxanders it hits 27296.71 M3, JUST enough to fit that all important 9th Giant Secure Can inside. Total capacity including expanders and GSCs: 35,396 M3 The Gallente one has fewer low slots. It's top end is 26774. It misses the 9th GSC by 226 M3. Total Capacity including expanders and GSCs: 33,974. Gallente is now down by 1,422 M3. That's a lot of cargo. Frankly, I'm upset that CCP would say "Gee, the dedicate hauler class has dutifully spent a month and more of their training time JUST to be able to drive a big truck. Let's take tthe race that already got a KICKING hauler for just ONE level of skill points invested for about an hour and give them the new ship that beats the old ship from the Gallente, the ONE thing they had left that they really do better than anyone, and give it to Amarr. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING??? What's next? Making Amarr the best Missile users and EW users, too? ARGH, stinks SO bad.
Teelmaster	Posted - 2005.02.03 04:43:00 - [2] Some cheese with that whine?
Leegion	Posted - 2005.02.03 05:03:00 - [3] Edited by: Leegion on 03/02/2005 05:03:45 Tech II frigates need Level 5 frigate of whatever race you want to be in. Tech II cruisers need Level 5 cruiser of whatever race you want to be in. And both of those would take about half a month to a month in other trainings. A Tech II version of a Tech I industrial ship should obviously follow this 'rule.' I mean I hope you wouldn't expect to fly inteceptors or assault ships with a Level 1 frigate skill. BTW there is a new Amarr indy, and its Tech I.
Gazzaa29	Posted - 2005.02.03 05:13:00 - [4] Edited by: Gazzaa29 on 03/02/2005 05:13:46 I think Drusilla`s point was... All those peeps that spent weeks of training so they can fly the best indy must be feeling a litle shafted now as basicly thheve waisted all that time on a skill they dont really want now. i think they should of atleast made the gal indy as good as the amar version. The amars will b happy cus they got a kicking indy.... And the gallentens will b happy cus they already got indy lvl5 and will b hopping into there t2 indy reel soon Makes sence to me
Gaius Kador	Posted - 2005.02.03 05:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Drusilla Ok, ocne more Amarr gets the best stuff. snip WHAT WERE THEY THINKING??? What's next? Making Amarr the best Missile users and EW users, too? ARGH, stinks SO bad. We have to be the best at everything, if not everything would have been wrong. ----------------------------------------------
FZappa	Posted - 2005.02.03 05:59:00 - [6] wait for cargo expander 2 ? what bonus to resist does amarr get anyway , i think the caldari therm/kin is much nicer tbh. -------------------------
Saerid	Posted - 2005.02.03 06:11:00 - [7] Has plenty of room for cargo, indeedy. Too bad it can't move anywhere with it. Does 55 m/s with 7 local hulls, 20 m/s with expander IIs (should they be released some day)? You can practically feel the wind in your hair when you're barreling down the highway at top speed. As for the EW and Missiles..gimme.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.02.03 06:17:00 - [8] I say you stupid indies have it too easy. I remember when 7k cargo was l33t.. now.. you can move an entire corp's hangar with one trip. Although it sucks to see Gallente losing the only unique thing to them, lol _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Hera Ludheilen	Posted - 2005.02.03 06:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Drusilla Now we all have to train that STUPID Amarr industrial skill for a frigging month to get to the top of our game again. Why? Becuase CCP game the Amarr a Transport Ship with high basic cargo, the 25% bonus from Amarr industrial, and SEVEN low slots. With 7x 27.44% epxanders it hits 27296.71 M3, JUST enough to fit that all important 9th Giant Secure Can inside. Total capacity including expanders and GSCs: 35,396 M3 Could you people please please switch your webcam on make a footing of yourself and post it along with your whine? Doh i'm so looking forward to the missile changes, it will just be awesom here on the forum...
Dau Imperius	Posted - 2005.02.03 06:51:00 - [10] Ah the power of cheese. Look little kids, get over this 'I have the best' thinking, and maybe you'll be able to play the game for once. Iteron Mk V's are still damn good indy's + ya'll who have that and barges trained will be able to slip into Gallente transports with no problem for skills. Anyone else who'd like a foot in their mouth feel free to post like Drusilla.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.03 06:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Saerid Has plenty of room for cargo, indeedy. Too bad it can't move anywhere with it. Does 55 m/s with 7 local hulls, 20 m/s with expander IIs (should they be released some day)? You can practically feel the wind in your hair when you're barreling down the highway at top speed. As for the EW and Missiles..gimme. 20 m/s lol ________________________________________________________
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2005.02.03 07:09:00 - [12] buhu __ There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2005.02.03 07:10:00 - [13] Industrial ship balance seems a bit out of whack with the amarr industrials. They got the fastest indy with the most cargo and it only requires indy lvl1. Even with indy lvl4 it's better than others.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.03 07:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Arthur Guinness Industrial ship balance seems a bit out of whack with the amarr industrials. They got the fastest indy with the most cargo and it only requires indy lvl1. Even with indy lvl4 it's better than others. Erm, doesn't the sigil have the least cargo? Like a max of 9k m3 or something. ________________________________________________________
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.02.03 07:33:00 - [15] Quote: I remember when 7k cargo was l33t.. now.. you can move an entire corp's hangar with one trip. Excellent choice of words.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.02.03 07:54:00 - [16] ;/ _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Atandros	Posted - 2005.02.03 08:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Quote: I remember when 7k cargo was l33t.. now.. you can move an entire corp's hangar with one trip. Excellent choice of words. But note the ship's speed with all that fitted.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.02.03 08:24:00 - [18] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 03/02/2005 15:55:10 Quote: The dedicated haulers of EVE, who have spent over a month of training time to get to that Iteron 5, ... UTTER RUBBISH EDIT: profanity removed MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2005.02.03 09:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Arthur Guinness Industrial ship balance seems a bit out of whack with the amarr industrials. They got the fastest indy with the most cargo and it only requires indy lvl1. Even with indy lvl4 it's better than others. Erm, doesn't the sigil have the least cargo? Like a max of 9k m3 or something. Doesn't the sigil have double the base speed of other indies? (even with it's high mass it's still the fastest ship around). And there was me thinking minmatar was the race with the fast ship...... And btw, sigil is b0rked, the cargo/speed doesn't match with the other indies. also the many low slots seem unbalanced. I don't really know why i don't see it now, and didn't a year ago, but both these amarr indies need some stats adjusted.... or all other tech1 indies.... Well maybe ccp has time for that next year or so.
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.02.03 10:26:00 - [20] hmm, abit unfair imo. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.02.03 10:31:00 - [21] no one seems to mention the caldari transport ships, are they really that bad? Death to the Galante
Bjoern	Posted - 2005.02.03 11:15:00 - [22] Could be worse ... one of us on this thread has a miner/indutrialist/hauler with MINMATAR 5 ... but have I been whining for the last year about it? NO! Live with it. PS: Yes that makes them just as dedicated a hauler as you!
Kalast Raven	Posted - 2005.02.03 11:28:00 - [23] Sorry all you copy-cat Iteron flyers. I'll not shed a tear for you though... Everyone gets their day in the sun. live with it. ------- K. Raven
Fabiusbile	Posted - 2005.02.03 12:16:00 - [24] What is with all this complaining about the new amarr indy being bigger than the iteron v? The amarr tech 1 sigil has a base cargo smaller than the bestower, so for cargo carrying the iteron 5 is still the best even with the extra low slot on the sigil. As for the tech 2 indys, if your gonna fit 7 expanders on that ship then you havent got a clue as to what they were designed for. Dose BLOCKADE RUNNER ring any bells? The tech 2 indys are ment for low sec space transportation not for the carebear minners in high sec space. Hope this clears thing up a bit ------------------------------------------------ fabiusbile Director of R&D and Mining opp's i want to buy T2 indy bpc's
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2005.02.03 13:02:00 - [25] Iteron V still goes faster. Get over your 226 M3 personal inferiority complex, and 9 Giant Secure Can fetish and move on. That will be 1,000,000 isk for counseling services. Mail me the money in-game.
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2005.02.03 13:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Fabiusbile What is with all this complaining about the new amarr indy being bigger than the iteron v? The amarr tech 1 sigil has a base cargo smaller than the bestower, so for cargo carrying the iteron 5 is still the best even with the extra low slot on the sigil. Compare the Sigil to the Badger, Iteron, Hoarder. You'll see what's wrong, double the base speed but roughly same cargo and way more low slots to play around with. Imo there needs to be an indy rebalancing session, that makes up for the fact that medslots aren't as usefull as they were before the AB/MWD changes.
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.02.03 13:17:00 - [27] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 03/02/2005 13:21:54 Originally by: Arthur Guinness Originally by: Fabiusbile What is with all this complaining about the new amarr indy being bigger than the iteron v? The amarr tech 1 sigil has a base cargo smaller than the bestower, so for cargo carrying the iteron 5 is still the best even with the extra low slot on the sigil. Compare the Sigil to the Badger, Iteron, Hoarder. You'll see what's wrong, double the base speed but roughly same cargo and way more low slots to play around with. Imo there needs to be an indy rebalancing session, that makes up for the fact that medslots aren't as usefull as they were before the AB/MWD changes. Please examine the mass of the Sigil, think about what this means and then tell us if you hold to your current view or have modified it. clue 1: AB/MWD clue 2: warp alignment Anyway, 'indy rebalancing'? It's the most unbalanced class of ships and has been for a very long time. IMO that is quite deliberate on CCP's part. I fear you will have to learn to live with that. The Cos PS. All 7 slots filled with expanders on an Impel would be madness. PPS. When the T1 Freighter class comes out, I expect far more wailing if the Gallente Freighter is not the biggest for cargo... The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine
Fabiusbile	Posted - 2005.02.03 13:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Arthur Guinness Originally by: Fabiusbile What is with all this complaining about the new amarr indy being bigger than the iteron v? The amarr tech 1 sigil has a base cargo smaller than the bestower, so for cargo carrying the iteron 5 is still the best even with the extra low slot on the sigil. Compare the Sigil to the Badger, Iteron, Hoarder. You'll see what's wrong, double the base speed but roughly same cargo and way more low slots to play around with. Imo there needs to be an indy rebalancing session, that makes up for the fact that medslots aren't as usefull as they were before the AB/MWD changes. The sigil has 3000m3 The badger has 4125m3 The badger 2 has 5250m3 The wreathe (smallest minmatar hauler) has 3300m3 The Iteron class starts at 3000m3 and ends at 5250m3 where do you get of saying that they all have roughly same cargo? The sigil has the same base cargo as an iteron 1 for god sake ------------------------------------------------ fabiusbile Director of R&D and Mining opp's i want to buy T2 indy bpc's
Thyro	Posted - 2005.02.03 13:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Drusilla Ok, ocne more Amarr gets the best stuff. I denote there an immense anxiety accumulated due to frustration and with a potential suicidal thoughts caused by long stressful Veld mining. I'd suggest to phone the psych helpline with some urgency to help you pass through those dreadful thought moments.
Drusilla	Posted - 2005.02.03 17:26:00 - [30] One more time, with a bit less angst. Giving the Amarr yet another "we have the best ship in the class" item with the industrials would be like changing the Gallente all the gallente ships can use hybrids in the same way as Amarr ships use beams, with all the range and damage and bonuses and such, and then changing Amarr ships so they could only use blasters. Players that like beam weapons train up Amarr ship skills and beam weapon skills and such as high as they can. If CCP came along and suddenly just handed all the top-of-the-line benefit of that to another race where Amarr specialists would have to start over with training another race's pilot skills up for a month and change just to get to where they'd already trained to be, it would be just as wrong. On top of that, Gallente in general had very, very few ships going for it that made it special. The Iteron 5 was the one thing CCP ahd let Gallente keep that was top-drawer. Now it's second rate and in order to become top-drawer again players need to move away from yet another Gallente ship type to something better. It's counterproductive to make changes like that. RE: 20 m/s with 7x expander fitted because these ships are "supposed to be" used for 0.0 hauling: Anyone hauling expensive stuff in an expensive ship in 0.0 will be using instas anyway, so the 20 M/s bit doesn't really factor into it. And if they hit a warp jammer bubble, the extra speed is not gonna help if confronted with a gank squad. The speed issue is essentially a non-issue for experienced 0.0 players, and anyone flying a tech 2 industrial is not a newbie player.
Noriath	Posted - 2005.02.03 17:38:00 - [31] And another thing Amarr do best...
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:03:00 - [32] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 03/02/2005 18:02:49 Apples and oranges... The Gallente continue to have the 'top drawer' tech 1 industrial. Let me turn the question on its head: do you really think it would have been acceptable for the Gallente to have the 'top drawer' tech 2 industrial also? Is the answer: 'sure, so long as it doesn't go to the Amarr'? How petty, if so. (I'm not a hauling-freak btw and I don't care frankly so don't have a go because I am Amarr - I actually prefer Min ships for all their flaws.) Let's be clear: Anyone who has the ability to buy the transport skill (30m), buy the Impel when they get built (30-50m? More?) from the fruits of.. what? a few days hauling in your precious Iteron Vs? Less? Such a person has more than had their money's worth from that oh so tortuous month of training time. You'll still be making piles of money while you wait for Amarr V, Industry V and Transport Ships I in your Iteron Vs just to get that extra 1.4k m3. What utter, dreadful whinging. Far worse than any I've seen about combat ship inequalities and the people whinging already fly the best tech 1 cargo hauler! Abysmal. The Cos PS. ...and if you aren't making at least the kind of money per day I suggest in your Iteron Vs then you are not the uber-haulers you claim to be. The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine
Drusilla	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:37:00 - [33] Actually, it's apples and apples in this case. Considering that, at the moment, the ONLY thing the Gallente have as top drawer is hauling, yes, I think it would be totally fair for them to have the best tech 2 hauler. That's the point of it. The one thing that Gallente ships could lay claim to as being best at was hauling. Every other ship class is outperformed by other race's ships. The fact that the best one went to Amarr is only really relevant because: A> Amarr seem to have become the central point around which all the best stuff is focused, and... B> They already had the second best industrial around in terms of utility for time invested since the Bestower only needed level 1 in skill training to use. I have nothing against Amarr. I have something against the best of the other races slowly being given to just one race's ships regardless of which race is the beneficiary of this. And frankly, since you're not a hauler player and are not one of the many that are faced with the need to essentially discard a month and a half of skill points just to get teh the same point they were at before (top notch hauler) I don't really think you have much leg to stand on to call anyone upset by this any names. Before you offer your insults, why not throw away 1,280,000 of your own skill points and see how bitter THAT tastes? Originally by: The Cosmopolite Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 03/02/2005 18:02:49 Apples and oranges... The Gallente continue to have the 'top drawer' tech 1 industrial. Let me turn the question on its head: do you really think it would have been acceptable for the Gallente to have the 'top drawer' tech 2 industrial also? Is the answer: 'sure, so long as it doesn't go to the Amarr'? How petty, if so. (I'm not a hauling-freak btw and I don't care frankly so don't have a go because I am Amarr - I actually prefer Min ships for all their flaws.) Let's be clear: Anyone who has the ability to buy the transport skill (30m), buy the Impel when they get built (30-50m? More?) from the fruits of.. what? a few days hauling in your precious Iteron Vs? Less? Such a person has more than had their money's worth from that oh so tortuous month of training time. You'll still be making piles of money while you wait for Amarr V, Industry V and Transport Ships I in your Iteron Vs just to get that extra 1.4k m3. What utter, dreadful whinging. Far worse than any I've seen about combat ship inequalities and the people whinging already fly the best tech 1 cargo hauler! Abysmal. The Cos PS. ...and if you aren't making at least the kind of money per day I suggest in your Iteron Vs then you are not the uber-haulers you claim to be.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.02.03 18:56:00 - [34] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 03/02/2005 19:02:22 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Quote: I remember when 7k cargo was l33t.. now.. you can move an entire corp's hangar with one trip. Excellent choice of words. Sometimes it's all too easy to figure out what you're thinking The only thing WRONG with the Sigil is is whould require Amarr indy 3 to use. And for reference, I have a Wreathe BPO :P (Agent rewards ++) "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Smiling Amarr	Posted - 2005.02.03 19:37:00 - [35] Hammer mentioned in another thread that the speed of the sigil is a typo. Its supposed to be 155.
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.02.03 19:59:00 - [36] As is the mass listed. Can we move on? There will be few pilots that load the deepspace tech 2 indies with all expanders, it does not play to their strengths well. They will use insta's, sure, but they will tank them at least a bit to take advantage of their strengths, and to survive insta-lock gank squads firing at extreme range. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, stick with a tech 1 industrial. Kill the enemy, and break their toys.
Shadex De'Marr	Posted - 2005.02.03 20:01:00 - [37] Anyone else notice that the only posters in this thread that are pulling out the lame "like some whine with that cheese" crap are... Amarr players. BALETED!
Darkwolf	Posted - 2005.02.03 20:42:00 - [38] Also, Hammer has stated that both the high speed and the high mass of the Sigil are typos, and should be a lot lower.
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.02.03 21:54:00 - [39] Originally by: Drusilla Actually, it's apples and apples in this case. It just isn't. Sorry but tech 1 vs tech 2 is just not apples and apples. Quote: Considering that, at the moment, the ONLY thing the Gallente have as top drawer is hauling, yes, I think it would be totally fair for them to have the best tech 2 hauler. That's the point of it. The one thing that Gallente ships could lay claim to as being best at was hauling. Every other ship class is outperformed by other race's ships. So probably the best tech 1 cruiser is ignored? (Name your choice if you disagree) Arguably (very arguably but still) the strongest HAC is ignored? One of the best interceptors is ignored? Excellent Assault Frigs... ignored? One of the best mining battleships is ignored? (Arguably the best for hostile zone solo mining) A fine range of tech 1 frigates is just... yeah, ignored? The fact that the Gallente have a range of haulers for all pockets and uses... is... ignored? Get real. The 'thron has issues (I concede it does) and all Gallente wail 'we have no good ships other than our precious hauler'? Come on. Quote: A> Amarr seem to have become the central point around which all the best stuff is focused, and... A myth. Just like the 'gallente have no good ships anymore' is a myth. Quote: B> They already had the second best industrial around in terms of utility for time invested since the Bestower only needed level 1 in skill training to use. Fair comment. But CCP should have given the Amarr two indys to begin with. The reality is that with only one class available it was inevitable. If we'd had Sigil from day one the Bessie could have been Amarr Indy 3. Quote: And frankly, since you're not a hauler player and are not one of the many that are faced with the need to essentially discard a month and a half of skill points just to get teh the same point they were at before (top notch hauler) I don't really think you have much leg to stand on to call anyone upset by this any names. 1) I've called nobody any names. I've described certain remarks as whinging - which is what they are. 2) I'm sorry but 'throw away' skill points is just nonsense. You and I have no idea what may require those ranks in Gallente Indy in the future. You've had great benefit from that training already. Just because it no longer makes you 'top notch' until the freighters come out (I'm assuming you haul for trade because, I'm sorry, the Impel with 7 expanders would be problematical as a mining hauler IMO) is no reason to cry foul. 3) I have hauled for trade in my time, I'm just not utterly obsessed with the numbers. 4) Are you people really incapable of coping with change? Do you know how many times one or other fighting ship skill or combat-related skill has been temporarily rendered useless in the course of this game? Finally: Freighters, Freighters, Freighters. If you haul for trade they will blow every indy tech 1 or tech 2 out of space in terms of cargo. This is an interim situation. Moan if and when you Gallente are shat on re the freighters. I may even support you if that happens. The Cos NOTE: have to repeat this for at least one other's benefit - I prefer Minmatar ships to Amarr, OK? plus I've said my say and I realise it won't persuade some. No personal ill will towards anyone has been intended by my remarks. The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine
benwallace	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:33:00 - [40] sigil is bugged ccp said that its supposed to have a base of 155m/s not 255m/s --------------------------
Phoenix Pryde	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:34:00 - [41] Whats all this whining about ? Gallente get exactly what they deserve ... You wouldnt really expect these treehugging arrogant selfdiluded fools to get anything right, would you ? right ... And as was already pointed out ... again for the treehuggers and their lovers ... the new Transports are NO normal indies ... and you dont really wanna put 7 locals on an Impel, do you ? ... i mean ... 22m/s ... only a treehugger could consider that ... XTECH t2 sales: www.ii-inc.org/xtech
Drusilla	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:47:00 - [42] Hauling anywhere I had instas? Heck yes I would put 7 expanders in it. Originally by: Phoenix Pryde Whats all this whining about ? Gallente get exactly what they deserve ... You wouldnt really expect these treehugging arrogant selfdiluded fools to get anything right, would you ? right ... And as was already pointed out ... again for the treehuggers and their lovers ... the new Transports are NO normal indies ... and you dont really wanna put 7 locals on an Impel, do you ? ... i mean ... 22m/s ... only a treehugger could consider that ...
Mad Bomber	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:52:00 - [43] Im sorry your whining over 1.5k of carge space. [Sarcasm] Why cant my apoc be the most uber in the game? [/sarcasm] The Amarr indy is the best? in total hold yes, but with few minmatar ships around (might change with the patch), the thermal/kinetic resists are better suited I think. What do I care, not like im ever gonna fly 1 Amarr 4 teh win
Ukutora Ozugas	Posted - 2005.02.03 22:57:00 - [44] This game isn't about balance.
Olivin	Posted - 2005.02.03 23:49:00 - [45] Originally by: benwallace sigil is bugged ccp said that its supposed to have a base of 155m/s not 255m/s It's suck. I already trained skills for it and bought a bloody thing in hope of having a nice fast hauler.
Turboneger	Posted - 2005.02.04 03:44:00 - [46] I dont see why the amarr shouldn't get a great hauler. All they had untill now was the bessy. Now theres finally a reason to train for amarr indy lvl5.
tenp1	Posted - 2005.02.04 04:20:00 - [47] Given the choice between 1. a cheap easily obtainable and easy to replace ship with the best tech 1 cargo space and second best overall cargo space. or 2. a VERY slighly better cargo, good defence, slow ass, way overpriced (you know they will be), expensive to loose and difficult to replace ship (the ship alone would probably be worth more than the cargo 9/10 times). I'd go for option 1, and that is the MKV. Going by your statement, noone would have trained anything but gally indy, but as we all know there is more to indys choice than just straight cargo space. Why do you think there are so many mammoth pilots, they take less time to train than a MKV but have a decent amount of cargo space as a trade off even if it's not as good as MKV. The bestower may not be the best indy since castor but it still is up to level 3, that is enough for most etc. Ok so the MKV is no longer the biggest hauler, but so what, it is still has a lot more going for it than the ship that has just a tiny bit more m3 than it. And yes I do use a MKV myself and personally I am not bothered, nor do i feel I wasted time training for it.
Hawk Firestorm	Posted - 2005.02.04 07:10:00 - [48] Personally I think the lev 5 skill fest CCP are on at the mo is just silly. It actually puts older players off, when they really need a shot of something new, but instead they get handed several months training for a new frigate. lol But then if ya want to see silly checkout the Mining crystal skill requirements for us 'miners'.
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.02.04 17:18:00 - [49] Just to let you know it only has five low slots...
Dukath	Posted - 2005.02.04 18:40:00 - [50] Edited by: Dukath on 04/02/2005 18:40:54 Whats wrong with a ship doing 22m/s? Every hauler has a full set of instajumps and instadocks. Haulers don't travel, they only jump and warp. Who cares what the top speed is.
4 LOM	Posted - 2005.02.04 18:49:00 - [51] Originally by: tenp1 Given the choice between 1. a cheap easily obtainable and easy to replace ship with the best tech 1 cargo space and second best overall cargo space. or 2. a VERY slighly better cargo, good defence, slow ass, way overpriced (you know they will be), expensive to loose and difficult to replace ship (the ship alone would probably be worth more than the cargo 9/10 times). I'd go for option 1, and that is the MKV. Going by your statement, noone would have trained anything but gally indy, but as we all know there is more to indys choice than just straight cargo space. Why do you think there are so many mammoth pilots, they take less time to train than a MKV but have a decent amount of cargo space as a trade off even if it's not as good as MKV. The bestower may not be the best indy since castor but it still is up to level 3, that is enough for most etc. Ok so the MKV is no longer the biggest hauler, but so what, it is still has a lot more going for it than the ship that has just a tiny bit more m3 than it. And yes I do use a MKV myself and personally I am not bothered, nor do i feel I wasted time training for it. so true, i am no hauling person but if i decided to be i would still train gal industrial level 5, stop being such a winner the iteron V is still uber good
Farjung	Posted - 2005.02.04 19:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Saerid Has plenty of room for cargo, indeedy. Too bad it can't move anywhere with it. Does 55 m/s with 7 local hulls, 20 m/s with expander IIs (should they be released some day)? You can practically feel the wind in your hair when you're barreling down the highway at top speed. As for the EW and Missiles..gimme. Might be of interest Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Droidster	Posted - 2005.02.04 19:31:00 - [53] I agree. This move is totally bogus. Up to now I have not flown other race's indys on principle but even I will switch. Thanks for nothing CCP. _____________________________________________ I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.02.04 19:46:00 - [54] Originally by: Droidster I agree. This move is totally bogus. Up to now I have not flown other race's indys on principle but even I will switch. Thanks for nothing CCP. How exactly is it a principle if youre abandoning it the second it is no longer the absolute best? Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.02.04 23:12:00 - [55] Eh...it only has 5 low slots now folks...the skill req's are still messed up as its on par with the Mammoth (nearly) without the amount of skill needed.
Shinca	Posted - 2005.02.05 16:36:00 - [56] Originally by: Damien Vox Eh...it only has 5 low slots now folks...the skill req's are still messed up as its on par with the Mammoth (nearly) without the amount of skill needed. I think the complaining was about the T2 indys aka Transport ships, not the new Amarr T1 indy. Sigil, the new T1 Amarr indy has 5 low slots, Impel, the Amar transport ship has 7 low slots. And BTW, do you know many people with Amarr indy at lvl5? Didn't think so. So basicaly someone with Gallente indy at lvl5 can start using the T2 indy as soon as they come into game while you can start training Amarr indy 5 as anyone else and later switch. So you are still ahead, except for the 2 or so days you need to get Amarr indy to lvl 4. ----------------------------- (\_/) (X.x) (> <) WTB cookbook with bunny recipes
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.02.05 17:16:00 - [57] Originally by: Dukath Edited by: Dukath on 04/02/2005 18:40:54 Whats wrong with a ship doing 22m/s? Every hauler has a full set of instajumps and instadocks. Haulers don't travel, they only jump and warp. Who cares what the top speed is. Then again, traders can't have BM's everywhere we go. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.02.05 20:15:00 - [58] I'll repeat this. 2 words: Insta-lock Ganking. < 2 second lock time and more than enough firepower to destroy an indy before it has a chance to warp to that handy instajump point. If you are hauling in an area that hasn't had to deal with this yet, then count your blessings and fit your new Tech 2 indy with all expanders. Enjoy it while it lasts. For those that live in more dangerous area's, you know that at least some of those low slots will be handy to keep your ship alive to actually reach its destination. Kill the enemy, and break their toys.
Clarence Bodicker	Posted - 2005.02.05 21:03:00 - [59] Originally by: RollinDutchMasters Originally by: Droidster I agree. This move is totally bogus. Up to now I have not flown other race's indys on principle but even I will switch. Thanks for nothing CCP. How exactly is it a principle if youre abandoning it the second it is no longer the absolute best? This whining is great. Keep it coming. -------------------------------------------------- Criminal Connections Rank(3) SP: 76549/768000 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=
Devineflid	Posted - 2005.02.05 21:03:00 - [60] wow, i wonder why they gave it good resistances, and the smaller ones even get +2 wcs built in...i mean they couldn't have made it shout "tank me and use me to escape hostile places" if the ships were actually called that. and if you wish to use them for purposes intended, even on instas, with 1 med slot the amarr one is just food for any inty/af/fast lock pilot with a scrambler and some spare time on its hands, whereas the gal one can fit 2 multispecs and escape pretty much any frig at least that approaches it without much trouble, any inty pilot knows there is nothing more annoying than a hauler with jammers. if you're gonna look at a ship, look at the entire ship, the gal one is better for its intended purpose, which is worth dropping 1.5k cargo. Devster ============================================== Have you ever wondered who was responsible for the "do not attempt to stop chain with hand or genitals" type notes on things? well it was me, or at le

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