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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
rootimus maximus
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.19 19:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: cpu939 removing local is pvp on easy mode
Hunter and prey both have to scan if there's no local. A hunter who finds ships by scanning isn't guaranteed to find easy kills simply by virtue of getting a hit on the scanner. One of the few times I've actually got a PvP kill, I was certain I was dead (it was pretty close, to be fair).
Depending on the execution, removing local could be a good thing. It'll give people the chance to get into low and nullsec without being spotted as easily as under the current system. Maybe some of them will even stay.
Originally by: cpu939 the real question is how much lag would removing local create with all the scanning? ccp had to add a delay between scanning just form whspace being added
Now this is a very valid concern. Any change needs to be properly thought through by CCP.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.19 20:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: rootimus maximus Hunter and prey both have to scan if there's no local.
But only one of these groups will constantly have to be mashing the scan button just to stay alive. This will NOT be fun and eventually the prey will leave. The hunter, on the other hand, jumps in, cloaks, scans once. If there is no target he doesnt have to continue scanning. He leaves. If there is prey, the he can choose probe down the prey at HIS convenience.
For the first few weeks this will be fun galore for the lazy hunters. But then it will be back to "I can't find any targets" because everyone and their mothers are cloaked or in hi sec running levels 2 and 3 missions.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Sebadai
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2011.03.19 20:05:00 -
[33]
Sounds like a really bad idea.
Why?
Well, fly around lowsec and do the scanning routine in every empty system you find.
Surprise!
People have POS' with empty ships floating inside their shields all over the place!
To me it sounds like this would make roaming needlessly boring and tedious. There would be many, many changes to directional necessary to make this viable at all. So, in my opinion everyone who don't wants to have local chat should go and live in wormholes already! - Way of the Gun
PROM4CSM |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.03.19 20:10:00 -
[34]
Used to agree. Then, I realized it's way easier for a bot to spam d-scan than for a human.
Delayed local would be a huge benefit to bots v humans.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.03.19 20:41:00 -
[35]
Local , faovors prey No local favors hunter.
The key is the balance.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.03.19 22:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: rootimus maximus [
Hunter and prey both have to scan if there's no local. A hunter who finds ships by scanning isn't guaranteed to find easy kills simply by virtue of getting a hit on the scanner. One of the few times I've actually got a PvP kill, I was certain I was dead (it was pretty close, to be fair).
That you dont understand how greatly favors the hunter leads me to believe that you dont really know anything about PVPing.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.03.19 22:19:00 -
[37]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Local , faovors prey No local favors hunter.
The key is the balance.
And how much potential prey is still willing to go into 0.0 as is(outside of privately secured systems)?
Not enough.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Sentient Blade
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Posted - 2011.03.19 22:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Local , faovors prey No local favors hunter.
The key is the balance.
And how much potential prey is still willing to go into 0.0 as is(outside of privately secured systems)?
Not enough.
Other players are not in the game to hand themselves to gankers.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.19 22:32:00 -
[39]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Local , faovors prey No local favors hunter.
The key is the balance.
This. The situation as it is currently does favor the prey. But no local just swings the balance pendulum in the other direction and does not solve anything but get people out of 0.0 quickly. In my opinion, once players realize how imbalanced a no-local environment creates there will be less PVP, because everyone will adapt by either moving out completely or hopping on a cloaked ship looking for other players in cloaked ships.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.03.19 23:20:00 -
[40]
First Stop calling what you want "Delayed Local" . That implies that you will appear after a period of time. What you're looking for is Local on Chat Activity or something like that... where there is no "delay" if someone types a x in local immediately and an the option of never showing at all in local (which will be the case for most people, even if they aren't hiding at all)
I'd might be for a "delayed" local that had you appear 15 seconds or 60 seconds or 90 seconds after entering a system ... 120 seconds might be enough for people to move in and out of system and never be spotted.... a fast moving fleet can keep its movements fairly hidden without people making true scouting efforts with a scanner etc.
Its been argued time and again but i'll repeat how important it is to me to see the people in a system just for the social aspect.
NOT because I want to talk to them..or hear what they have to say. "Social" in that I notice their names and from time to time can easily on a whim , click to see what corp they are in.. maybe notice they're from a different part of the world etc.
Emptyness makes for a bleak uninteresting game enviornment to me.
The scanner is for combat reasons.... it takes effort and really isn't important moving around in high sec (where its great to see how many people are in a system.... knowing that you're in populated places etc).
I'd prefer a move the other direct really with players corp's listed under their potraits so its easy to see who's turf it is you're passing through, and for roaming gangs to have their colors waving while they move through your normal system.
But if people move so quickly through they don't register.. thats fine with me...the idea that they could hide thier identity by a purposeful quickness in movement is logical enough and meets a fair portion of the reaons that some people want local essetially removed for all but those who choose to broadcast in system.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso First Stop calling what you want "Delayed Local" . That implies that you will appear after a period of time.
You do realize that delayed is the type of channel everyone's talking about yeh? Go make a player channel and set it to delayed mode, see what happens. (hint: it works like wh local) |
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.03.20 00:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso First Stop calling what you want "Delayed Local" . That implies that you will appear after a period of time.
You do realize that delayed is the type of channel everyone's talking about yeh? Go make a player channel and set it to delayed mode, see what happens. (hint: it works like wh local)
Yes ,, I understand that the term is commonly use the way others describe but thanks for pointing out to me how it got that name.
It is still misleading even if the term derives from a EVE UI label (and we won't start on ideas for UI improvement)
Just because thats how it works in some chats doesn't mean that necessarily is the best solution elsewhere. It would be easiest to implement I suppose but I'd hope programming effort doesn't come before optomizing game dynamic choices.
Painting the picture either/or doesn't make sense to me.. there are thousands of gradiations betwen what it is now and what people are proposing
No need to go from one extreme to another....just nudge the dial along abit.
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gargars
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Posted - 2011.03.20 07:13:00 -
[43]
Edited by: gargars on 20/03/2011 07:14:31 WH local isn't delayed it's instant. The moment someone says something it appears. You want to be on the CSM and don't even know how chat works lol?
Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 19/03/2011 14:23:47
We have delayed local in WH (also 0.0 space) so don't we have it on 0.0 nullsec systems also?
Currently it is being EXPLOITED as a local radar and even used by external applications (virus scanners string searching) to shut down an eve client if local changes.
Make nullsec the same as WH, delay local.
I am tired of seeing crying threads about AFK cloakers etc due to this exploit.
Highsec can have immediate local sure but not null (like WH space), perhaps make lowsec also delayed too but definately 0.0.
I like to be on the edge of my seat in nullsec (like WH) because it is delayed, once people talk, they reveal themselves. That is how it should be, more mysterious in nullsec like WH is.
It adds to the aptmosphere and it would make supprise invasions, really a supprise :) and more fun.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.03.20 09:10:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 20/03/2011 09:13:23
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso First Stop calling what you want "Delayed Local" . That implies that you will appear after a period of time. What you're looking for is Local on Chat Activity or something like that... where there is no "delay" if someone types a x in local immediately and an the option of never showing at all in local (which will be the case for most people, even if they aren't hiding at all)
I'd might be for a "delayed" local that had you appear 15 seconds or 60 seconds or 90 seconds after entering a system ... 120 seconds might be enough for people to move in and out of system and never be spotted.... a fast moving fleet can keep its movements fairly hidden without people making true scouting efforts with a scanner etc.
Delayed does not imply delayed for a fixed amount of time. Something can also be delayed until a (certain) event occurs. You might have heard "delayed until further notice" or "delayed until later this year" or a headline like "Google books settlement is delayed until "significant changes" are made"
It's no one's fault that you have a wrong understanding of the word delayed, except maybe your own.
Originally by: gargars Edited by: gargars on 20/03/2011 07:14:31 WH local isn't delayed it's instant. The moment someone says something it appears. You want to be on the CSM and don't even know how chat works lol?
Not the appearance of the text is delayed, but the appearance of the character in the member list of the local channel, until this character actually writes something.
Are you trying to be intentionally dense?
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.20 09:12:00 -
[45]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 No local favors hunter.
The intel in local works both ways. Do you know how annoying a roam would be if you had to d-scan/probe every single system you entered?
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.20 09:21:00 -
[46]
Miilla, you are not a Masternerdguy alt by any chance? The pattern of opening duplicate threads on already discussed topics is a bit too familiar.
Still, this is a valid topic for discussion (as in all other threads about it), I support it.
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Eve Truth
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Posted - 2011.03.20 09:37:00 -
[47]
One of my CSM Policy's is the (Removal Local)
Not just the standard take loacal away etc tho.
My ideas is to have delayed local on a teired way, so...
Hi-Sec 1.0-0.5 will have a 30 second delay. This will allow you to move through hi-sec during wars etc, but also not know if you have any War targets in system yourself.
Low Sec 0.4-0.1 Will have a 2 Minute delay. Enough time to scan a system get in position etc. Also to move through a system in a slow'ish ship.
Null Sec Will have a 5 Minute Delay. This is to encourage small gangs to be able to get in and out of a system, without ever being seen in local. Also this will allow the use of black ops to be more effective, currently when black ops are used you can get a covert cyno up in system but you instantly see the fleet jumping in. This way a covert fleet can break behind enemy lines without them instantly knowing.
Let me know what you think of this idea, Im sure it could do with some tweaking but I think the initial idea is a good one.
EVE TRUTH
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Memorya
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Posted - 2011.03.20 09:39:00 -
[48]
Delaying local shoud be done long time ago. ------------------------
English is my 5th. Language.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.20 13:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 No local favors hunter.
The intel in local works both ways. Do you know how annoying a roam would be if you had to d-scan/probe every single system you entered?
Now multiply that annoyance ten fold. Because any stationary prey (missioning, mining, or whatever) HAS to consistently, always, and forever be mashing the scan button for as long as they're out there.
No doubt that it will be annoying for the hunter. But it will be MUCH MUCH worse for the prey. And therein lies the imbalance.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
ihcn
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Posted - 2011.03.20 13:43:00 -
[50]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Local nerf MUST go along with !
Revamp if directional scanner. Limited ability to scan for cloaked ships.
Only after this go ahead and remove it, otherwise 0.0 turns into barren wasteland.
We do just fine in wspace without the changes you've requested. I'd say a majority of wspace systems are inhabited, I wouldn't call that a barren wasteland.
It's understandable why botters etc might be against this change though.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.20 14:00:00 -
[51]
Originally by: ihcn
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Local nerf MUST go along with !
Revamp if directional scanner. Limited ability to scan for cloaked ships.
Only after this go ahead and remove it, otherwise 0.0 turns into barren wasteland.
We do just fine in wspace without the changes you've requested. I'd say a majority of wspace systems are inhabited, I wouldn't call that a barren wasteland.
It's understandable why botters etc might be against this change though.
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 And also, wh space has two things that make delayed local bearable:
1) Difficulty in accessing said system. WH's act as bottleneck roads to themselves which make it extremely difficult for someone to find a specific target. There's no such thing as saying let's go to Alliance X's home terf and disrupt their economy.
2) Once inside a WH it takes the stalker time and effort to determine who's WH is it. Are there POS' present? Is it someone's home system? If, so, is it friend or foe? And lastly, is there anyone here right now for me to gank.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.03.20 14:31:00 -
[52]
Dear Miilla,
I advise you to get back to scamming in Rens, or find more innovative ways of trolling.
Thanks, Anti
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.03.20 14:33:00 -
[53]
Why is the OP trying to nerf non-botters?
Is he running an RMT business or something...
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.03.20 15:10:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 15:11:17 Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 15:10:44
Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 19/03/2011 14:23:47
We have delayed local in WH (also 0.0 space) so don't we have it on 0.0 nullsec systems also?
because CCP provided a choice of risk/reward options. just becuase you choose to be in a WH doesn't mean that everyone else should have that choice shoved down their throats.
i'm sure you would just LOVE to be able to amass a large supercap fleet without anyone even knowing about it... but how about this - since you can take so much thru a WH before it collapses - how about we make nullsec gates do the same!!! that way those darn gates aren't being "EXPLOITED" as well....
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2011.03.22 10:28:00 -
[55]
Why would someone have to be forever mashing local? If you feel the need to be forever mashing local why even play? Stay in 0.5 in npc corp.
Surprise is part of PvP (or was and should be again).
--------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU. |
The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.03.22 10:40:00 -
[56]
Originally by: rootimus maximus Edited by: rootimus maximus on 19/03/2011 17:00:01 I'd be happy if local was the same in high, low and nullsec as it is in wormholes. Replace constellation with either region or empire for people who want to be sociable, which would also have the benefit of being able to continue a converstation when you have to jump to a neighbouring system.
Edit: In reply ro Desert Ice's comments, I rarely PvP. When I do, I'm the gankee 99.9% of the time. It's not just "elite" PvP'ers who want local (in it's current version) gone.
Yeah lets make all of EVE the same! NO NO NO - It's fine how it is.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.22 12:42:00 -
[57]
Since the overview seems to be delayed now, might as well do local.
Was on a roam on Saturday, saw the brackets in space long before the ships showed up on the overview, actually didn't show on the overview until I started targeting from the bracket. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Graic Valente
Gallente Valente Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.03.22 12:48:00 -
[58]
1) Go to null sec of silly alliance with your NPC corp trader alt. 2) Cloak. 3) Scare the crap out of the locals until they set you blue. 4) Dock, trade, profit.
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Robdon
Darkwave Technologies Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.03.23 19:39:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso First Stop calling what you want "Delayed Local" . That implies that you will appear after a period of time.
You do realize that delayed is the type of channel everyone's talking about yeh? Go make a player channel and set it to delayed mode, see what happens. (hint: it works like wh local)
Actually, that is incorrect.
'Delayed' mode in player channels is NOT the same as WH Local.
WH Local doesn't display anyone unless they speak.
Where as 'Delayed mode' in player channels displays people who speak AND every X minutes it displays everyone in the channel (AKA 'Delayed')...
Rob.
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fiizzzzzzy
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Posted - 2011.03.23 19:46:00 -
[60]
yes make local delayed accross the board, would make the game so much more interesting
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