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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Minsc
Gallente A.W.M
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Posted - 2011.03.22 02:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Why do I get the feeling that after all these years of supposed incarna development they are really only seriously starting to work on it now.
Probably because you have absolutely no idea how long it takes to develop a brand new graphics engine from the ground up and thus have no concept of the work involved.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.22 03:19:00 -
[32]
Expansions have been free had you been paying about oh say 10$ for them thats about 140$ USD per account. Which is about the cost of all of the world of warcraft expansions and original game at full prices. Had you been paying wow's prices though... 700usd? Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.22 04:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Nova Fox Expansions have been free had you been paying about oh say 10$ for them thats about 140$ USD per account. Which is about the cost of all of the world of warcraft expansions and original game at full prices. Had you been paying wow's prices though... 700usd?
Not a fair comparison because if we had been paying for expansions we'd be getting a whole lot more a lot more infrequently. We get 2 a year, they get 1 every 2 years.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.22 04:23:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
WHO CARES
Load-station environment = off please.
Please allow us to save graphics processing by disabling this "feature".
Look everyone! He's kewl and l33t because he just doesn't care about Incarna! Way kewler than any of you can ever be. Because he... Just! Doesn't! Care!
He doesn't care so much that he will make sure you KNOW just HOW MUCH he doesn't care!
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.03.22 04:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Othran On a personal note, if you could apply your normal defintion of "Soon" (ie - never) then I'd be very grateful.
Quoting this because it made me lol. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.03.22 05:21:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Look everyone! He's kewl and l33t because he just doesn't care about Incarna! Way kewler than any of you can ever be. Because he... Just! Doesn't! Care!
He doesn't care so much that he will make sure you KNOW just HOW MUCH he doesn't care!
Oh nah, I care. I care to be given the option to opt-out of taxing my system with unneeded rendering even when Eve is background.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.22 05:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Nova Fox Expansions have been free had you been paying about oh say 10$ for them thats about 140$ USD per account. Which is about the cost of all of the world of warcraft expansions and original game at full prices. Had you been paying wow's prices though... 700usd?
Not a fair comparison because if we had been paying for expansions we'd be getting a whole lot more a lot more infrequently. We get 2 a year, they get 1 every 2 years.
I say its quite fair since I pay the same monthly subscription for both games and in the other game getting to all of that expansions content and completing it is only two months or less of entertainment and then sitting around for thier own 'mini' expansion which fall vitim to the before in mere weeks. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25FEB11
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Maia Toralen
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Posted - 2011.03.22 06:01:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Maia Toralen on 22/03/2011 06:01:56
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Oh nah, I care. I care to be given the option to opt-out of taxing my system with unneeded rendering even when Eve is background.
CCP and the CSM has made it abundantly clear that they won't be forcing anyone to go out of their pod to do anything. You either want Incarna or you don't. I've got no problems with that but I hate hearing people cursing a great idea that they don't have to take part of if they don't want to.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.22 06:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Why do I get the feeling that after all these years of supposed incarna development they are really only seriously starting to work on it now.
Probably because you have absolutely no idea how long it takes to develop a brand new graphics engine from the ground up and thus have no concept of the work involved.
Nice troll. I'll bite.
I have no issues that the artwork for incarna has been steadily progressing over the years as artwork is literally the meat and potatos of any modern game and a major drain of manpower and funds. But as far as the graphics engine ccp has borrowed heavily from nvidia's massive dev pool and has did little actual groundbreaking work on the actual code. But seriously guys. It seems that the actual gameplay for incarna has not even been given a once over for its implimentation with all the shiney graphics ccp has been steadily working on all this time. That is the issue we are carping about. Not that its taking forever to get in the game but that the actual implimentation has taken a back seat and is just now getting its due attention. Which inevitably means we get yet another half baked expansion with nebulous promises of yes its just a framework atm but we will flesh it out in due time and it will be UBER. Really. Honest Injun.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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UberDeathDealer
Steel Fleet Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.03.22 06:14:00 -
[40]
Edited by: UberDeathDealer on 22/03/2011 06:15:46 So they gave us barbie dolls and now we are getting doll houses... I want MOARS STUFFS TO MAKE THINGS GO BOOM!!!!!!!!! Also LAG is a lie :P
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.22 06:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: UberDeathDealer So they gave us barbie dolls and now we are getting doll houses... I want MOARS STUFFS TO MAKE THINGS GO BOOM!!!!!!!!!
Apparently polished pvp is not as profitable as half baked carebear additions.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Diana Araquez
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.22 06:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Why do I get the feeling that after all these years of supposed incarna development they are really only seriously starting to work on it now.
Probably because you have absolutely no idea how long it takes to develop a brand new graphics engine from the ground up and thus have no concept of the work involved.
Nice troll. I'll bite.
I have no issues that the artwork for incarna has been steadily progressing over the years as artwork is literally the meat and potatos of any modern game and a major drain of manpower and funds. But as far as the graphics engine ccp has borrowed heavily from nvidia's massive dev pool and has did little actual groundbreaking work on the actual code. But seriously guys. It seems that the actual gameplay for incarna has not even been given a once over for its implimentation with all the shiney graphics ccp has been steadily working on all this time. That is the issue we are carping about. Not that its taking forever to get in the game but that the actual implimentation has taken a back seat and is just now getting its due attention. Which inevitably means we get yet another half baked expansion with nebulous promises of yes its just a framework atm but we will flesh it out in due time and it will be UBER. Really. Honest Injun.
No you're right. The current version of Incarna is no older than around the middle of last year, graphics and everything. It's pretty clear that whatever was before was completly scrapped and the project was on hold for a long while waiting for WoD to catch up (and WoD development can't be going very well). The engine is not even made from scratch, "CARBON" is CCP speak for making the EvE engine reusable for other projects (mainly WoD right now).
No it dosen't take 5 years to make a room with a guy in it.
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Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar Surface Detail
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Posted - 2011.03.22 07:13:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Diana Araquez
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Why do I get the feeling that after all these years of supposed incarna development they are really only seriously starting to work on it now.
Probably because you have absolutely no idea how long it takes to develop a brand new graphics engine from the ground up and thus have no concept of the work involved.
Nice troll. I'll bite.
I have no issues that the artwork for incarna has been steadily progressing over the years as artwork is literally the meat and potatos of any modern game and a major drain of manpower and funds. But as far as the graphics engine ccp has borrowed heavily from nvidia's massive dev pool and has did little actual groundbreaking work on the actual code. But seriously guys. It seems that the actual gameplay for incarna has not even been given a once over for its implimentation with all the shiney graphics ccp has been steadily working on all this time. That is the issue we are carping about. Not that its taking forever to get in the game but that the actual implimentation has taken a back seat and is just now getting its due attention. Which inevitably means we get yet another half baked expansion with nebulous promises of yes its just a framework atm but we will flesh it out in due time and it will be UBER. Really. Honest Injun.
No you're right. The current version of Incarna is no older than around the middle of last year, graphics and everything. It's pretty clear that whatever was before was completly scrapped and the project was on hold for a long while waiting for WoD to catch up (and WoD development can't be going very well). The engine is not even made from scratch, "CARBON" is CCP speak for making the EvE engine reusable for other projects (mainly WoD right now).
No it dosen't take 5 years to make a room with a guy in it.
Would both you and Zhim please state where you obtained all this information? Apparently the pair of you have access to information that hasn't even been released yet. Citations and links would be nice here as you both seem certain that you know exactly what CCP have done with regards to the work on CARBON, the work done on the gameplay that will be available in Incarna, and precisely what CCP should have managed in the last 5 years.
Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
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Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.03.22 07:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Xavier Isaacson Would both you and Zhim please state where you obtained all this information? Apparently the pair of you have access to information that hasn't even been released yet. Citations and links would be nice here as you both seem certain that you know exactly what CCP have done with regards to the work on CARBON, the work done on the gameplay that will be available in Incarna, and precisely what CCP should have managed in the last 5 years.
CCP showed us a playable Ambulation demo at FanFest 2008 which did significantly surpass the current CQ in functionality.
go figure
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Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar Surface Detail
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Posted - 2011.03.22 07:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: Xavier Isaacson Would both you and Zhim please state where you obtained all this information? Apparently the pair of you have access to information that hasn't even been released yet. Citations and links would be nice here as you both seem certain that you know exactly what CCP have done with regards to the work on CARBON, the work done on the gameplay that will be available in Incarna, and precisely what CCP should have managed in the last 5 years.
CCP showed us a playable Ambulation demo at FanFest 2008 which did significantly surpass the current CQ in functionality.
go figure
I would ask you how you know it surpasses anything? Since very little technical information regarding the integration of the original fanfest demo into the main client software has been released. No where has it been stated by CCP that the demo shown at fanfest is not still going to be used in one of the Incarna releases, it was even said at the time that the demo was no-where near complete graphically and from what we have seen of CQ, the graphics are now complete and all that remains is to make sure that the software integrates nicely with the bulk of the client.
Maybe you are confusing functionality with "features"?
Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
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Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.03.22 08:14:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 22/03/2011 08:15:21
Originally by: Xavier Isaacson I would ask you how you know it surpasses anything? Since very little technical information regarding the integration of the original fanfest demo into the main client software has been released. No where has it been stated by CCP that the demo shown at fanfest is not still going to be used in one of the Incarna releases, it was even said at the time that the demo was no-where near complete graphically and from what we have seen of CQ, the graphics are now complete and all that remains is to make sure that the software integrates nicely with the bulk of the client.
Maybe you are confusing functionality with "features"?
we can go on how to interpret the few things we know but from my POV is that they did a major rework of their graphics engine at some point in 2009 (which is very duke nukem-esque).
By the looks of it CCP did intend to release Ambulation relatively soon after it was presented at FF 2008 (my feeling at the time was maybe within a year).
At FF 2009 CCP was unable to show a playable demo of Walking in Stations, in early 2010 they started to talk everywhere about PhysX and APEX Clothing.
In mid-2009 CCP did also start to talk about the corification effort.
From my POV all circumstancial evidence points towards WoD pre-development picking up in 2009 and CCP deciding that WoD won't be served well with the technology they demo'd at FF 2008. If they had to develop new tech for WoD anyways, they would do so in a game-agnostic way and eventually backport it into EVE. Releasing one version of Ambulation with outdated graphics technology only to replace it with the WoD backport one or two years later would seem like a waste of developer resources (not just codewise, the old Ambulation engine might very well have had limits on texture sizes, shaders, animations, ... which would result in having to rework a lot of assets for WoD-based Ambulation). So CCP decided to scrap the original Ambulation and start anew.
Without working at CCP we can't know this for sure but imo it's a very compelling narrative that aligns well with the known facts.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.22 08:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Xavier Isaacson what CCP have done with regards to the work on CARBON
Not all that much, some videos over the past few years showcasing some of the things it can do (fanfest videos, simulated hair/clothing videos)
Quote: the work done on the gameplay that will be available in Incarna
It was heavily implied in the CSM 5 meeting notes that there is no gameplay planned as of yet and nothing is seriously on the roadmap for gameplay innovations. The open letter about Incarna the Jita Speakers Park and the meeting minutes are floating around, you can draw your own conclusions.
Even trying my best to summon the long dead CCP fanboy inside me, the outlook is pretty grim. Its looking to be a 3D chatroom and with an outside shot of having minigames.
My take on the situation, the gameplay of Incarna isn't the slightest bit important to CCP, they want to see how well the game engine for WoD stands up and iron out the glitches as part of the release tiny chunks of content motion. Any of the gameplay content of the Carbon platform most likely involves (dark) magic and killing vampires with wooden stakes.
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Tub Chil
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Posted - 2011.03.22 10:20:00 -
[48]
Quote:
CCP and the CSM has made it abundantly clear that they won't be forcing anyone to go out of their pod to do anything. You either want Incarna or you don't. I've got no problems with that but I hate hearing people cursing a great idea that they don't have to take part of if they don't want to.
Want it or not? You mean the cool stuff that they promised and advertised? I do want. why not? however working on incarna means NOT working on anything else. this is a game about space and NOTHING will change IN THE SPACE for years because everyone will be too busy rendering new shoes.
I like this game, but like everyone else I tend to be bored with things after a while. some people mentioned that expansions are "free". indeed you don't pay for expansion, but it's not a "gift" from CCP. expansions are essential because without new content everyone will be bored as hell after few years and quit. and this incarna thingy is not a standard expansion, it basically is a new game which may be fun to play, but it's not what we call EVE. So don't rage on people who are pessimistic about it.
One more thing about CCP's promises, do you remember tyrranis trailers? where we could be mercyful lords or ruthless tyrants? I want to be a tyrant. teach me how
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yumike
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:03:00 -
[49]
Edited by: yumike on 22/03/2011 11:06:09
Originally by: Tub Chil Want it or not? You mean the cool stuff that they promised and advertised? I do want. why not? however working on incarna means NOT working on anything else. this is a game about space and NOTHING will change IN THE SPACE for years because everyone will be too busy rendering new shoes.
I like this game, but like everyone else I tend to be bored with things after a while. some people mentioned that expansions are "free". indeed you don't pay for expansion, but it's not a "gift" from CCP. expansions are essential because without new content everyone will be bored as hell after few years and quit. and this incarna thingy is not a standard expansion, it basically is a new game which may be fun to play, but it's not what we call EVE. So don't rage on people who are pessimistic about it.
One more thing about CCP's promises, do you remember tyrranis trailers? where we could be mercyful lords or ruthless tyrants? I want to be a tyrant. teach me how
Thank you so much for posting this, While ultimately its a new feature (yay) its not only going to possibly interfere with already current other features, But it takes time away from the real game that has kept the majority of us here since '03~'04. Any older player and even most the newer ones I meet can't be bothered with changes like this, and frankly I just see it as dev time wasted that could have been better spent fixing/improving on something already currently implemented.
Forgive the analogy but, its like you asking me to design you a brand new 747 that moves quicker, And I gave you back a 747 with leather seats. It's NOT what you needed or wished for but it's okay because I only wasted years and thousands of hours developing it, right?
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Mystic5hadow
Koku Uchu Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:03:00 -
[50]
You know, I'm not one to complain usually but being that Incarna was going to be added to EvE is what got me into the game in the first place years ago. I constantly keep telling myself and friends "Incarna (WiS/Ambulation in the past) will be out soon and this game will be even more amazing and fun then it already is." and every time, I'm continually disappointed by CCP delaying this feature time and time again.
Then, finally, we're promised that the Captain's Quarters will be available on Sisi before Fanfest and I think "Wow! Yes! It's FINALLY FREAKING COMING!" and I get excited to the point I friggin' dream about it. But, yet again and as is the norm for CCP, I'm told it won't be available until after Fanfest, which means it probably won't be available for months. Or years. Who knows with CCP?
This is the ONE THING I've truly been looking forward to and CCP keeps bull****ting all of us around with it.
So I ask, PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED IN THIS WORLD. STOP. PROMISING. STUFF. Especially stuff that you can't absolutely guarantee. I want to believe that one day, when you guys at CCP tell us about something, it's true. But I'm starting to agree with all the whiners on these forums in that CCP just likes to screw us around.
If Incarna isn't out by Summer, as much as I do love EvE, I'm dropping it. I'm not going to support a developer that blatantly lies to it's consumers repeatedly. --- The ≡v≡ Online Forums: where all the kiddies go to whine.
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Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:04:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tub Chil
Quote:
CCP and the CSM has made it abundantly clear that they won't be forcing anyone to go out of their pod to do anything. You either want Incarna or you don't. I've got no problems with that but I hate hearing people cursing a great idea that they don't have to take part of if they don't want to.
Want it or not? You mean the cool stuff that they promised and advertised? I do want. why not? however working on incarna means NOT working on anything else. this is a game about space and NOTHING will change IN THE SPACE for years because everyone will be too busy rendering new shoes.
That's not entirely true... While the majority of resources is currently focused on "rendering new shoes" as you put it, there's work relevant for spaceships in space done (see team BFF's devblog on the lot of small changes coming).
I do agree that a bit too much focus is placed on InCarna, but CCP made it abundantly clear that that's how it's going to be, so we have to make sure InCarna is the best it can be, and likewise to make the best out of the remaining resources.
Be assured, however, that we're working on making sure those who don't want to take part in Sims in space won't have to... ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5. Running for CSM 6 http://www.rooksandkings.com/meissa/ Click here to vote for me! |
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente Halinallen veroparatiisi Inglorious Carebears
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:18:00 -
[52]
Don't forget that Incarna does need a lo of focus to be done correctly. It's not just something you can do in the last two hours at the end of the day. Specially when it's heavy on the graphics. You can do it like that and maybe in five years you will have a a working outdated ugly incarna. It would be like Daikatana. You have to push them through FAST (relative term) otherwise the market will drive past you.
Also, don't forget that when CCP is tackling new problems (3D walking about) they usually find solutions for old problems. New tech and different mechanics usually have a tendency to bring out new ideas. When you fight different beast you can accidentally find a Achilles heel in it. Thus conquer it!
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:21:00 -
[53]
Quote:
So I ask, PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS SACRED IN THIS WORLD. STOP. PROMISING. STUFF. Especially stuff that you can't absolutely guarantee.
EvE is not a web app. It takes a lot of time to develop and with classic applications it takes a stupid, random issue that could not be predicted to screw the schedules by weeks or months.
If CCP (or any other "classic application" developer) stayed on the prudent side, they'd have to announce new features at triple the times they usually deliver, just to cover those cases when something goes wrong down the development path. Players would not love to be told that cool feature XYZ will be out in 2 years and in the meanwhile please keep paying. Expecially since 8 times out of 10 those 2 years will not reveal to be necessary, just when something goes wrong.
Incarna is one of these things where a lot can go wrong. They missed some major deadline and suddenly the whole pre-Carbon stuff appeared too late to be ready in time not to be too surpassed when it'd get to players computers.
Worried about the old stuff being an huge company time sink and cost to produce an outdated "new" feature made to last for years, at CCP they probably noticed how nVidia released a whole slew of neat stuff. They tossed part of the pre-Carbon engine and switched over. With all the delays it is going to be affected with.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tub Chil
Quote:
CCP and the CSM has made it abundantly clear that they won't be forcing anyone to go out of their pod to do anything. You either want Incarna or you don't. I've got no problems with that but I hate hearing people cursing a great idea that they don't have to take part of if they don't want to.
Want it or not? You mean the cool stuff that they promised and advertised? I do want. why not? however working on incarna means NOT working on anything else. this is a game about space and NOTHING will change IN THE SPACE for years because everyone will be too busy rendering new shoes.
I like this game, but like everyone else I tend to be bored with things after a while. some people mentioned that expansions are "free". indeed you don't pay for expansion, but it's not a "gift" from CCP. expansions are essential because without new content everyone will be bored as hell after few years and quit. and this incarna thingy is not a standard expansion, it basically is a new game which may be fun to play, but it's not what we call EVE. So don't rage on people who are pessimistic about it.
One more thing about CCP's promises, do you remember tyrranis trailers? where we could be mercyful lords or ruthless tyrants? I want to be a tyrant. teach me how
Ignorance is no excuse. Its been said time and time again that the crew working on Incarna are not the same crew responsible for the rest of the game. The people working on Incarna were hired specifically for that job. Nothing is being taken away, in fact, people were added. Also since you are not aware, CCP's plan from the very beginning was for EVE to be a complete science fiction simulator.
It never was and never will be just about spaceships, what you call EVE and what iit actually IS are two different things and I think Im gonna go with the game creators definition. Here, I'll let Torfi explain it to you What EVE actually is. Enjoy!
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Gavjack Bunk
Gallente Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:30:00 -
[55]
Until after fanfest?! How about you wait until oh I don't know, say 2020?
And until then, do some spaceships in space related things? Hmmm? How about that? Where does that vote go? CSM? I don't think so sunshine.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.22 11:41:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Until after fanfest?! How about you wait until oh I don't know, say 2020?
And until then, do some spaceships in space related things? Hmmm? How about that? Where does that vote go? CSM? I don't think so sunshine.
Go watch that video Gav, educate yourself as to what EVE really is.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.03.22 12:06:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Othran
On a personal note, if you could apply your normal defintion of "Soon" (ie - never) then I'd be very grateful.
---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.03.22 12:44:00 -
[58]
Looking forward to the "Captain's Quarters"...the first release, and the subsequent "Incarna" environments that evolve, are more great content that is WORTH waiting for. Keep up the good work, CCP.
-------------------------------------------------------- This space For Rent. |
Reonetii
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.22 12:47:00 -
[59]
Maybe you could throw us some tidbits while we wait and add trails back to the game first.
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Gavjack Bunk
Gallente Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.22 12:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk Until after fanfest?! How about you wait until oh I don't know, say 2020?
And until then, do some spaceships in space related things? Hmmm? How about that? Where does that vote go? CSM? I don't think so sunshine.
Go watch that video Gav, educate yourself as to what EVE really is.
Aww you so cute, you implied I was stupid or something without saying it! You too awesome for the Captain's Quarters. DEMAND ADMIRALS QUARTERS.
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