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Straight Edged	Posted - 2011.04.05 13:02:00 - [151] Blasters is fine. Its damage is one of the best up to 10-11km compared to any ships (large blasters). Station camp = you can easily hug at 0km Gate camp = everything appears at 15km, and 0 velocity. That means, the more agile and short ranged gallente boats could apply most dps in this situation. Any dps beyond 20km is pointless. because everything is between 0-15km. Blaster has no role? 99% of pvp happens at gate and stations.
Ulmega	Posted - 2011.04.05 14:49:00 - [152] Originally by: Straight Edged Blasters is fine. Its damage is one of the best up to 10-11km compared to any ships (large blasters). Station camp = you can easily hug at 0km Gate camp = everything appears at 15km, and 0 velocity. That means, the more agile and short ranged gallente boats could apply most dps in this situation. Any dps beyond 20km is pointless. because everything is between 0-15km. Blaster has no role? 99% of pvp happens at gate and stations. Alot of gates have 30km+, especially border gates.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.05 17:21:00 - [153] Originally by: Ulmega Originally by: Straight Edged Blasters is fine. Its damage is one of the best up to 10-11km compared to any ships (large blasters). Station camp = you can easily hug at 0km Gate camp = everything appears at 15km, and 0 velocity. That means, the more agile and short ranged gallente boats could apply most dps in this situation. Any dps beyond 20km is pointless. because everything is between 0-15km. Blaster has no role? 99% of pvp happens at gate and stations. Alot of gates have 30km+, especially border gates. Also a geddon does more damage at 10km than a megathron does anyway.
Crabs Collector	Posted - 2011.04.05 18:16:00 - [154] all weapons have their advantage and disadvantage, depending on the situation. Stop whining.
Rumple Fourskin	Posted - 2011.04.05 18:28:00 - [155] blasters **** at 5km.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.05 18:37:00 - [156] Originally by: Rumple Fourskin blasters **** at 5km. Mega only has about 5% more dps at 5km than a geddon does. Try again.
Wolfy2449 Gallente WE CAN HAZ CHEEZBURGER	Posted - 2011.04.05 19:48:00 - [157] Originally by: Crabs Collector all weapons have their advantage and disadvantage, depending on the situation. Stop whining. ] What happens if some situation happens only 1%, it renders that weapon useless... Signature removed for being not EVE related. Zymurgist
baltec1	Posted - 2011.04.05 19:53:00 - [158] Originally by: Wolfy2449 Originally by: Crabs Collector all weapons have their advantage and disadvantage, depending on the situation. Stop whining. ] What happens if some situation happens only 1%, it renders that weapon useless... I agree, bombs are near useless when solo.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.04.05 20:34:00 - [159] Blasters don't work in blobs end of story. The majority of people play in huge fleets = the majority of people can't use blasters = they are broken. If there's only a handful of people who use them then something is wrong with them. Good players can make them work, and even with the Gallente frigates they are pretty... not overpowered, but definately beastly. Doesn't matter, if they don't work in the average pvp battle then that means they need to be better at whatever it is they do.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.05 21:53:00 - [160] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Wolfy2449 Originally by: Crabs Collector all weapons have their advantage and disadvantage, depending on the situation. Stop whining. ] What happens if some situation happens only 1%, it renders that weapon useless... I agree, bombs are near useless when solo. For your comparison to work bombs would have to not be AOE; the problem with blasters is that they're really not much better than other weapons in their supposed niche.
Joras Fett	Posted - 2011.04.05 22:41:00 - [161] Originally by: Cambarus Mega only has about 5% more dps at 5km than a geddon does. Try again. THIS! This is what bothers me. If a geddon almost matches a mega who has to be completely different and more risky tactically, what's the point if the risk of losing 100m+ Isk if you could just use something that does almost the same but is much safer? If missiles hit accurately up to their maximum range and do equal to only a little less damage, that sucks. If blasters only do an average of 5% more damage than other fits, why run the risk of assaulting with a Gallente boat? The problem I have is if I fly Gallente for Hybrid bonuses, I have to fly it with a shield fit because if I put any kind of armor on there to buff it out I'm relegated ot Electron blasters and the smallest rails of each class. If they modified Some of the shield stuff, the buffer at which you have to hack through would be more balanced (as my brief research shows). I can out dps a drake in a Brutix, I just can't out buffer a Drake. The %more in damage I do is worthless when it's less than the % difference in ehp. For instance. a LSE II gives 2625hp and costs 46cpu and 165 to 123 powergrid depending on your skill. The closest Armor equivalent is the 800mm plate which gives 2100hp at 23cpu and 230powergrid that's unmodifiable by any skills. Since a LSE II is almost half the price for 500+ more HP, shield tanking is superior because you can outfit more T2 heavy weapons as well as damage modifiers. Therefore, if you updated BATTLESHIP sized shield extenders to be more easily fit for BS's, and harder for people to fit it on BC's and below. How does this tie into Gallente and blasters? Gallente and Blasters are awesome, but when you are out dps'ing an opponent that has massive equipment on it, you just can't compete. You still lose because you just can't output enough damage quick enough. I don't think it's a problem with Blasters more than its a problem with Shield tanking on BC's and below. I do think that Lg Blasters need to do about 15% more damage output. I can outfit Med Neutron blaster II's on a Domi and do the same amount of damage as Lg Electrons II's (lame), and the lg electrons don't fit because they cost too much cpu/pwrgrid. The other problem I have is that the only way I can fit Neutrons is to shield tank. If I try to active tank (because I need to be within kissing distance), I am relegated to active tanking since armor doesn't naturally regen like shields and thus at least 1 low slot is taken to repair stuff. 1 med slot is taken to cap recharge because hybrids take cap along with repairers. Rails? To fix rails, implement this, "For every level in [size] hybrid turrets, this weapon ignores 2% resistances." And also they need to cost 5%-15% less then they do now (without any skills). I haven't fit 450mm rails on anything because nothing I have will fit them and not be paper thin.
Proxyyyy Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.04.05 23:31:00 - [162] Originally by: Dorian Tormak Blasters don't work in blobs end of story. The majority of people play in huge fleets = the majority of people can't use blasters = they are broken. If there's only a handful of people who use them then something is wrong with them. Good players can make them work, and even with the Gallente frigates they are pretty... not overpowered, but definately beastly. Doesn't matter, if they don't work in the average pvp battle then that means they need to be better at whatever it is they do. Pretty much this^ If its not able to work within a blob (fleet), where the morjority of eve players enjoy their pvp. Then the ship is perceived as broken. ENTER Kanye West! I remember liang going off on how the Tempest is so bad and this and that is better (Amarr). I entered the disccusion and made the suggestion that it was not garbage. Infact it could engage any other battleship and either win or GTFO. This disscusion was long before the changes to TE's. After awhile, liang comes out with a valid argument to some ******s random statement. Other guy says he can beat a Tempest in a Mega, Abaddon or Geddon. Liang laughs and says thats unlikely. It was a known fact within the "niche" world of solo pvp'ers that a tempest can kite any other battleship and use extra slots of EWAR and NEUTS. You know, to lame pilots to death. After awhile of CHAT! They challenge each other to a dual and what not. Clearly Liang knew that the Tempest could indeed beat any other battleship or get away at the time. Its the same thing that makes the Dramiel such a big deal, but apparently it did not make it GOOD, which he still argued. It's still the case that the tempest is not considered good, because Amarr battleships are still alot better. Clearly being awesome at solo pvp does not make a ship good... what made the tempest good was not just the weapon system but other factors etc... Liang is like Katherine from 'Vampire diaries' (awesome show) DONT REMEMBER IF THAT CHAT TURNED INTO A DUAL OR DID THEY SQUASH DA BEEF? You can search for this disscussion if you want too. Like many of these that come up. i maintained most of things im arguing now. Solo-pvp has no place in these discussions and it should be stated as such. I dont know why people ACT like they're covering all aspects of pvp. Clearly thats not the case. NOW! Give blasters more range and STFU!
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.06 06:44:00 - [163] Originally by: Dorian Tormak Blasters don't work in blobs end of story. The majority of people play in huge fleets = the majority of people can't use blasters = they are broken. If there's only a handful of people who use them then something is wrong with them. Good players can make them work, and even with the Gallente frigates they are pretty... not overpowered, but definately beastly. Doesn't matter, if they don't work in the average pvp battle then that means they need to be better at whatever it is they do. On the bigger hulls they are also not really useful for solo, since the damage projection at close range is such a let down. Different to frigs the ability to control range and transversal is fairly low, and ending up in 1oX getting outtackeled fairly quick or shooting smaller ships(what is like 90% of the time the case with solo BS and don't do the supertanker gate camp buster) is pretty much the part where it starts to don't make sense to use them anymore. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
R3DSKULL Amarr Hounds of Helll	Posted - 2011.04.13 12:05:00 - [164] Blaster boats were king of the hill for a long time. The problem is as we know the nerfed tracking yes. But forget that what needs to be fixed is WEBS> They need to go back to what they used to be. This dual web,60% garbage is stupid. The rapier used to be functional now its semi functional. Blaster boats would be great again if only webs were functional instead of an ornament for you ship.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.13 12:25:00 - [165] Edited by: NightmareX on 13/04/2011 12:26:36 Originally by: R3DSKULL Blaster boats were king of the hill for a long time. The problem is as we know the nerfed tracking yes. But forget that what needs to be fixed is WEBS> They need to go back to what they used to be. This dual web,60% garbage is stupid. The rapier used to be functional now its semi functional. Blaster boats would be great again if only webs were functional instead of an ornament for you ship. Can i ask if you was playing eve some years ago before the webs got nerfed? And did you try out a Blaster Mega that time then? I'm asking because back in the days when webs was 90%, then ANYTHING that got into web range to a Blaster Mega got butt ****d brutally. And that was no fun at all. Well it might be fun when you are in a Blaster Mega, but it's not fun when you are getting 2 vollied by a Neutron Mega in a Cruiser all the time. Frigs was also popped easily to, so it wasn't fun at all. Now frigs and cruiser can survive a little longer against Battleships, and as far as i see it, that's just good. The thing that Blaster ships should have 90% web today will never happen, so just forget it. Webs got nerfed for a very good reason and it will never change. I know how powerfull the 90% webs is even today, because i both have a Vindicator and an Ashimmu.
R3DSKULL Amarr Hounds of Helll	Posted - 2011.04.14 02:41:00 - [166] Originally by: NightmareX Can i ask if you was playing eve some years ago before the webs got nerfed? And did you try out a Blaster Mega that time then? yes and yes. Originally by: NightmareX I'm asking because back in the days when webs was 90%, then ANYTHING that got into web range to a Blaster Mega got butt **d brutally. And that was no fun at all. Well it might be fun when you are in a Blaster Mega, but it's not fun when you are getting 2 vollied by a Neutron Mega in a Cruiser all the time. Frigs was also popped easily to, so it wasn't fun at all. This is where i have to majorly disagree with you, for 1 a frig using mwd had a chance to orbit pre scramblers. They replaced webs with scramblers which i do kind of understand, but the simple fact is a noob in a frigate shouldn't be able to 1v1 a bs ever. A bs should anything smaller unless its out numbered or its fighting a specialised ship class (i.e.recons hics hacs.) A battelcruiser should not be better at tracking and dealing with a cruiser than a battlship. Now i know this isnt a movie right but what movie have u ever seen space wise where the little ships can just pwn the big ships? none the little ships run unless they are in a swarm. If a pilot is going to train BS 5 and have t2 heavy blasters yeah you should get d if you get in his range. Not only is his ship larger and nastier it takes SOOO much longer to train up. The web nerf is sad imho, it never should have happend. Originally by:** NightmareX Now frigs and cruiser can survive a little longer against Battleships, and as far as i see it, that's just good. The thing that Blaster ships or other normal battleships should have 90% web today will never happen, so just forget it. Webs got nerfed for a very good reason and it will never change. I know how powerfull the 90% webs is even today, because i both have a Vindicator and an Ashimmu. ive seen some killmails where a assualt frig just circled a 37k armor mega which does 1500dps and killed it this is stupid. 90% webs are fine they were fine, people still pulled out of them plenty unless you were in a specialty ship like a rapier or huginn or heyena, of which those ships are a fraction of the functional they used to be. Most blaster boats needed webs to function of any size. Geddons even used webs to function, a cruiser shouldnt be able to just sit at 3km while ABing around a 1300dps BS while webbed with a t2 web and laugh as it widdles it down thats is completely stupid. So having played eve for alot of years the web nerf was a pretty bad choice that has gimped battlships that use turrets severely in ways they shouldnt be, again a frig should not be able to take a bs ever. A swarm yes solo never unless its an ewar frig then it should lack the dps.
freshspree	Posted - 2011.04.14 04:18:00 - [167] Ive seen some killmails where a assualt frig just circled a 37k armor mega which does 1500dps and killed it this is stupid. 90% webs are fine they were fine, people still pulled out of them plenty unless you were in a specialty ship like a rapier or huginn or heyena, of which those ships are a fraction of the functional they used to be. Most blaster boats needed webs to function of any size. Geddons even used webs to function, a cruiser shouldnt be able to just sit at 3km while ABing around a 1300dps BS while webbed with a t2 web and laugh as it widdles it down thats is completely stupid. So having played eve for alot of years the web nerf was a pretty bad choice that has gimped battlships that use turrets severely in ways they shouldnt be, again a frig should not be able to take a bs ever. A swarm yes solo never unless its an ewar frig then it should lack the dps. I think battleship weapon systems need more tracking and explosive radius/velocity bonus. I don't know if this is CCP's intention but it's pretty difficult to kill a frig that is webbed and scrammed with large weapon systems if it orbits you.
Laeris Evanstar Amarr Petals of Derketo	Posted - 2011.04.14 05:45:00 - [168] I look at the posts here, and I just have to laugh. So many people who don't have a clue how blasters really do shine in this game. I keep seeing all this nonsense about them being point blank weapons... I have a Navy Mega (no officer mods, no faction mods even) that can fire Null at 50km at nearly the same DPS of a gank-fit Typhoon.... with triple the Typhoon's tank. If they are stupid enough to close with me, they get Void. The result is 4 to 6k hits every 3.8 sec. Someone tell me how this sucks. "Not your typical Roleplayer"
Laeris Evanstar Amarr Petals of Derketo	Posted - 2011.04.14 05:49:00 - [169] Originally by: freshspree Ive seen some killmails where a assualt frig just circled a 37k armor mega which does 1500dps and killed it this is stupid. 90% webs are fine they were fine, people still pulled out of them plenty unless you were in a specialty ship like a rapier or huginn or heyena, of which those ships are a fraction of the functional they used to be. Most blaster boats needed webs to function of any size. Geddons even used webs to function, a cruiser shouldnt be able to just sit at 3km while ABing around a 1300dps BS while webbed with a t2 web and laugh as it widdles it down thats is completely stupid. So having played eve for alot of years the web nerf was a pretty bad choice that has gimped battlships that use turrets severely in ways they shouldnt be, again a frig should not be able to take a bs ever. A swarm yes solo never unless its an ewar frig then it should lack the dps. I think battleship weapon systems need more tracking and explosive radius/velocity bonus. I don't know if this is CCP's intention but it's pretty difficult to kill a frig that is webbed and scrammed with large weapon systems if it orbits you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UufI-36a2ew Watch it. "Not your typical Roleplayer"
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.14 08:59:00 - [170] Originally by: Laeris Evanstar I look at the posts here, and I just have to laugh. So many people who don't have a clue how blasters really do shine in this game. I keep seeing all this nonsense about them being point blank weapons... I have a Navy Mega (no officer mods, no faction mods even) that can fire Null at 50km at nearly the same DPS of a gank-fit Typhoon.... with triple the Typhoon's tank. If they are stupid enough to close with me, they get Void. The result is 4 to 6k hits every 3.8 sec. Someone tell me how this sucks. that you are dumb ,others already said it many times whats the problem but you are just not bright enough to understand it
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.14 09:08:00 - [171] Edited by: The Djego on 14/04/2011 09:13:27 Originally by: Laeris Evanstar I have a Navy Mega (no officer mods, no faction mods even) that can fire Null at 50km at nearly the same DPS of a gank-fit Typhoon.... with triple the Typhoon's tank. If they are stupid enough to close with me, they get Void. The result is 4 to 6k hits every 3.8 sec. Someone tell me how this sucks. You should check out what falloff means. The only turret ships that hit with close range gank at 50km are a tach fitted nightmares or paladins(with at least 2 TCs). Originally by: Laeris Evanstar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UufI-36a2ew Watch it. I hope you realize we are talking about pvp here where scams and webs exist and it is most likely not as easy as trying to track a BS orbiting at 7.5km. If you think you need to explain something as simple as manual piloting to reduce transversal to old school mega pilot, you have to be trolling. Btw, this guy reminds me a lot at the people burning around on AB in her L4 with artis calling it player skill. You don't need to move a good Kronos setup a single meter if you know how tracking works and still have a very good damage projection in a AE(except the bonus room where you need some range tanking to do it with a 250 dps tank). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
freshspree	Posted - 2011.04.14 14:00:00 - [172] Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 14/04/2011 10:26:09 Originally by: Laeris Evanstar I have a Navy Mega (no officer mods, no faction mods even) that can fire Null at 50km at nearly the same DPS of a gank-fit Typhoon.... with triple the Typhoon's tank. If they are stupid enough to close with me, they get Void. The result is 4 to 6k hits every 3.8 sec. Someone tell me how this sucks. You should check out what falloff means. The only turret ships that hit with close range gank at 50km are tach fitted abaddons, nightmares or paladins(with at least 2 TCs). Originally by: Laeris Evanstar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UufI-36a2ew Watch it. I hope you realize we are talking about pvp here where scams and webs exist and it is most likely not as easy as trying to track a BS orbiting at 7.5km. If you think you need to explain something as simple as manual piloting to reduce transversal to a old school mega pilot, you have to be trolling. Btw, this guy reminds me a lot at the people burning around on AB in her L4 with artis calling it player skill. You don't need to move a good Kronos setup a single meter if you know how tracking works and still have a very good damage projection in a AE(except the bonus room where you need some range tanking to do it with a 250 dps tank). Using transverse/angular speed is norm but I think he missed the point which is blasters have terribad falloff. Nevertheless, I still don't see any regular BS beating a mega at less than 10km. I use a bhaal for incursions and I run double webs and one TC2 with max tracking skills. A mega navy/vindi/kronos still hits targets before I can and it's easy to see by looking at the much better tracking values.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.14 15:10:00 - [173] Originally by: freshspree I use a bhaal for incursions and I run double webs and one TC2 with max tracking skills. A mega navy/vindi/kronos still hits targets before I can and it's easy to see by looking at the much better tracking values. The tracking difference after 2 TCs is very minor and it comes mostly down to how to position the the ship to deal good damage against the target. With enough tackle/painting I found the laser only gangs a lot more impressive in incursion so far, since here ability to project damage at different ranges makes them a lot better for focus fire and damage applied in the end. The last navy Mega I have seen in incursion mostly used Null instead of going after every cruiser that orbited at 15-20km. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Tosser Galore	Posted - 2011.04.14 15:52:00 - [174] Originally by: Laeris Evanstar I look at the posts here, and I just have to laugh. So many people who don't have a clue how blasters really do shine in this game. I keep seeing all this nonsense about them being point blank weapons... I have a Navy Mega (no officer mods, no faction mods even) that can fire Null at 50km at nearly the same DPS of a gank-fit Typhoon.... with triple the Typhoon's tank. If they are stupid enough to close with me, they get Void. The result is 4 to 6k hits every 3.8 sec. Someone tell me how this sucks. Srlsy you must be trolling. I urge YOU to read all Tippias post's. HYBRIDS are currently in a bad position compared to the other turret based weapon systems, no doubt about that. You keep on laughing in your ignorance. L4 pve is far from being the baseline of discussion here. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Renarla	Posted - 2011.04.14 16:35:00 - [175] /mourns my Large Hybrid Turret V Hybrids suck. Really, really suck. Both Lasers and Projectiles outperform Hybrids in every possible situation.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.04.14 20:27:00 - [176] Quote: Solo-pvp has no place in these discussions and it should be stated as such. Quote: I dont know why people ACT like they're covering all aspects of pvp. Clearly thats not the case I'm not sure of what you are saying, sorry I'm not english native So, you say solo-pvp is not an aspect of the game that should be considered? ________________________________________________ Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.04.14 21:05:00 - [177] I love it Sure, boost blasters so they're usable for ridiculous nullsec blobs regardless if it makes them the only weapons worth using for solo/small gang Just in tome for me to ride the incoming FOTM wave ...oh wait Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
santori'la	Posted - 2011.04.14 21:21:00 - [178] You all want to give hybrids a new role? Hybrids ships a new role in fleets? Then (allthough this should go to lasers, but anyway) make their stats dependant on cap! If your cap is full, the turrets do more damage (=> alpha is increased), maybe have more range and falloff). your cap gets low? your DPS gets low, maybe your tracking gets to levels like it is now with hybrids. this could work with blasters the same. the more you have to take care about tanking, the less effective your turrets get due to lower cap. this would take quite some testing and balancing, but it could give hybrid ships a distinct feel. those megas at 150km would be a real threat with their alphas, until someone gets them to turn on their tank. no matter where they are capstable, the lower the cap is, the lower the damage is. of course, there a numerous issues with vamps and neuts.... I just wanted to throw the idea out there, if you really want a radicially new feel to these ships
Laeris Evanstar Amarr Petals of Derketo	Posted - 2011.04.14 22:10:00 - [179] Originally by: freshspree Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 14/04/2011 10:26:09 Originally by: Laeris Evanstar I have a Navy Mega (no officer mods, no faction mods even) that can fire Null at 50km at nearly the same DPS of a gank-fit Typhoon.... with triple the Typhoon's tank. If they are stupid enough to close with me, they get Void. The result is 4 to 6k hits every 3.8 sec. Someone tell me how this sucks. You should check out what falloff means. The only turret ships that hit with close range gank at 50km are tach fitted abaddons, nightmares or paladins(with at least 2 TCs). Originally by: Laeris Evanstar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UufI-36a2ew Watch it. I hope you realize we are talking about pvp here where scams and webs exist and it is most likely not as easy as trying to track a BS orbiting at 7.5km. If you think you need to explain something as simple as manual piloting to reduce transversal to a old school mega pilot, you have to be trolling. Btw, this guy reminds me a lot at the people burning around on AB in her L4 with artis calling it player skill. You don't need to move a good Kronos setup a single meter if you know how tracking works and still have a very good damage projection in a AE(except the bonus room where you need some range tanking to do it with a 250 dps tank). Using transverse/angular speed is norm but I think he missed the point which is blasters have terribad falloff. Nevertheless, I still don't see any regular BS beating a mega at less than 10km. I use a bhaal for incursions and I run double webs and one TC2 with max tracking skills. A mega navy/vindi/kronos still hits targets before I can and it's easy to see by looking at the much better tracking values. My Navy Mega's falloff+optimal with blasters equipped with Null is 48.9km. "Not your typical Roleplayer"
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.04.14 22:47:00 - [180] Originally by: Laeris Evanstar My Navy Mega's falloff+optimal with blasters equipped with Null is 48.9km. At which range it deals 280 turret DPS.

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