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Lazer Bear
Amarr
Original Ganksters
O.G.-Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.29 03:55:00 -
[1]
From what i know blasters have been weak for a LOOONG LOOOOOOOONG time, and almost everyone agrees that they are the weakest weapon ingame and that it sucks
Why ccp doesnt fix them then?
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Miss Leatherpants
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Posted - 2011.03.29 04:00:00 -
[2]
Railguns are worse. But yes, hyrbids have been widely know as the worst weapon system for a while now. As to why they haven't been fixed.. i'd assume it has to do with a combination of walking in stations and engineering new servers so the NC can load another 1k ships onto grid before the node fails.
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Kovorix
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Posted - 2011.03.29 04:26:00 -
[3]
You and everyone else with these posts aren't really characterizing this properly. Yes, blasters are pretty bad and people have been complaining for a long time about them.
But think back just about a year and the major balance issue that was complained about was the projectile issue. It seemed, to everyone, that projectiles and therefore minmatar were the weakest links in the game. And they probably were. So after a long and arduous complain-campaign CCP eventually gave projectiles some love.
Now that blasters have been surpassed by projectiles and are at the bottom of the chain, just keep up the complaining and I'm sure change will come eventually. But don't say that they've always been the weakest weapons and "WTF CCP why have you been ignoring them", just remember projectiles.
After that people will probably complain about missiles or lasers, and so goes to never-ending cycle.
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Miss Leatherpants
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Posted - 2011.03.29 04:35:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Kovorix
You and everyone else with these posts aren't really characterizing this properly. Yes, blasters are pretty bad and people have been complaining for a long time about them.
But think back just about a year and the major balance issue that was complained about was the projectile issue. It seemed, to everyone, that projectiles and therefore minmatar were the weakest links in the game. And they probably were. So after a long and arduous complain-campaign CCP eventually gave projectiles some love.
Now that blasters have been surpassed by projectiles and are at the bottom of the chain, just keep up the complaining and I'm sure change will come eventually. But don't say that they've always been the weakest weapons and "WTF CCP why have you been ignoring them", just remember projectiles.
After that people will probably complain about missiles or lasers, and so goes to never-ending cycle.
In fairness, it's been quite a while since the projectile buff. Also, missiles other than heavies/hams are fairly meh. I'd say they have every right to gripe aswell. Most don't because they work well in pve and the drake is currently so over-used that any complaints about lanchers is trolled out immidiately, but that's for another thread.
Not every qq post has merit, but saying complaints about hybrids represents some never-ending cycle that we should simply ignore is retared.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.03.29 04:58:00 -
[5]
Confirming that if its not a heavy missile, its not that great.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.03.29 05:27:00 -
[6]
Confirming that the projectile buff was a mistake and that lasers and missiles (in particular heavies and scorch, respectively) should have been nerfed instead.
It basically came down to buffing projectiles and hybrids (notice which one never got done) or nerfing lasers and missiles. They decided to go with the former, and never finished the job.
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.03.29 05:38:00 -
[7]
They all have their weaknesses and strong points. Stop complaining.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.03.29 07:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Crabs Collector
They all have their weaknesses and strong points. Stop complaining.
This.
Hybrid systems and the ships that use them, save for a select few.. take more more actual skill (not SP) to use properly and to their reach full potential. Want easy mode.. drake and hurricane, there is a reason why so many are used. Because an idiot can pilot one with success. It has more to do with the combination of the ship in conjunctionary with their respective weapons, than merely weapon systems themselves.
Cookie cutters.. and of course unflappable ego bending masterbaters will tell you hybrid ships don't work. Simply change the fits around, and don't listen to what leet1337 from '07 tells you and adjust to the current climate. A brutix can ****, oh yes it can.
The crutch on hybrids for large scale engagements comes in that rails are on low end of alpha, and blasters need to get in range to unleash its easy to obtain 1k+ dps potential. When people look at killmails and talk about them after fights, a rail ship will be at the bottom because of its weaker alpha.. and thus gets assumed at sucking for fleets, and rightfully so. Cause its amazing dps curve is void by the swift pop-pop-pop-pop killing that takes place.
Just fix the ammo.. just like how minnie has rainbow/tracking/falloff, lasers while dmg selection is poor they still are balanced in everything with no major holes in mechanics, and missiles rainbow plus never ever missing if in range.. hybrid needs an extra flavor to its ammo. Simple.. change the ammo to RoF or alpha option for both blast n rail. This adds more diversity without breaking the game, or making it more bland by simply turning hybrids into either laser or proj with just a different name.
Just remember.. as far as I'm concerned, fitting a hybrid boat like its a proj boat is being a lazy dumb ****. They are different ships.. fit and fly them like such. Quite being dumb asses.
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Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.03.29 07:16:00 -
[9]
In most cases, it's because the ships suck.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.29 07:20:00 -
[10]
ITT people who have never so much as SEEN a blaster ship, let alone actually flown one, comment on how they are not broken:
Originally by: Umega
Hybrid systems and the ships that use them, save for a select few.. take more more actual skill (not SP) to use properly and to their reach full potential. Want easy mode.. drake and hurricane, there is a reason why so many are used. Because an idiot can pilot one with success. It has more to do with the combination of the ship in conjunctionary with their respective weapons, than merely weapon systems themselves.
The REAL problem is the lack of notable performance gain within their supposed niche. A geddon, for example, does a mere ~5% less DPS than a megathron with the same number of damage mods, and in exchange it gets 300% range an instant ammo swapping to allow it to have 1000% the range of a blaster.
Originally by: Umega
Cookie cutters.. and of course unflappable ego bending masterbaters will tell you hybrid ships don't work. Simply change the fits around, and don't listen to what leet1337 from '07 tells you and adjust to the current climate.
The current climate is that blasters suck and you should train something else. There isn't really anything a blaster ship can do that another ship can't do just as well while having a much wider engagement range.
Originally by: Umega
A brutix can ****, oh yes it can.
Until it meets a drake. Or a cane. Or a harbinger. Or, hell, even a myrmidon. Being the best ship in a terrible ship class doesn't actually make the brutix GOOD, it just makes it not quite as bad as the other ships in need of a buff. Compare it to the BCs that people consider as being worth flying and suddenly it doesn't hold up so well outside of eft
Originally by: Umega
The crutch on hybrids for large scale engagements comes in that rails are on low end of alpha, and blasters need to get in range to unleash its easy to obtain 1k+ dps potential. When people look at killmails and talk about them after fights, a rail ship will be at the bottom because of its weaker alpha.. and thus gets assumed at sucking for fleets, and rightfully so. Cause its amazing dps curve is void by the swift pop-pop-pop-pop killing that takes place.
What amazing DPS curve? pulses can nearly match blaster DPS at 3 times the range, and rails don't actually outDPS beams (they do outrange them though, which is fairly useless in homogenized fleets)
Originally by: Umega
Just fix the ammo.. just like how minnie has rainbow/tracking/falloff, lasers while dmg selection is poor they still are balanced in everything with no major holes in mechanics, and missiles rainbow plus never ever missing if in range.. hybrid needs an extra flavor to its ammo. Simple.. change the ammo to RoF or alpha option for both blast n rail. This adds more diversity without breaking the game, or making it more bland by simply turning hybrids into either laser or proj with just a different name.
Hybrids need to work in their supposed niche, that's what hybrids need.
Originally by: Umega
Just remember.. as far as I'm concerned, fitting a hybrid boat instead of a proj boat is being a lazy dumb ****. They are different ships.. fit and fly them like such. Quite being dumb asses.
Fixed that for you. |
Lt Angus
Caldari
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.03.29 07:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Crabs Collector
They all have their weaknesses and strong points. Stop complaining.
you almost trolled me, well done sir 
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.29 07:26:00 -
[12]
Before you guys get too deep into this, I'm just going to point out that Uemega was the guy advocating armor-tanking Cyclones to sig-tank battleships.
Deffo not a cookie-cutter fitting guy lol
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captain skinback
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Posted - 2011.03.29 07:46:00 -
[13]
wait blasters need skill? they are one of the simplest weapons in the game.
approach target so you get to point blank range
web + scram
f1 f2 f3 f4 etc
you dont have to worry about optimal fall off or even tracking if you got enough web. when done right your up close and your dishing out max damage on a static target.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.03.29 08:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: captain skinback
wait blasters need skill? they are one of the simplest weapons in the game.
approach target so you get to point blank range
web + scram
f1 f2 f3 f4 etc
you dont have to worry about optimal fall off or even tracking if you got enough web. when done right your up close and your dishing out max damage on a static target.
To use blasters you have to get up close and it would seem people dont have the balls to do that anymore.
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Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.03.29 08:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: captain skinback
wait blasters need skill? they are one of the simplest weapons in the game.
approach target so you get to point blank range
web + scram
f1 f2 f3 f4 etc
you dont have to worry about optimal fall off or even tracking if you got enough web. when done right your up close and your dishing out max damage on a static target.
If you get webbed and are sitting at 0m/s against a blaster ship, then you're the one with "no skill", not the other player. Generalising a weapon system is stupid anyway. Flying a Trimarked, Plated Battleship like a Megathron or Abaddon is s completely different experience than say, flying a Taranis or a Crusader, despite them using the same weapon system.
Also, a lot of blaster ships die in optimal range to other ships anyway.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.29 09:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: baltec1
To use blasters you have to get up close and it would seem people dont have the balls to do that anymore.
Funny since even during the nano age you did see a lot of blaster ships fielded in her niche roles. The difference however where that blaster pvp was lethal instead of terrible at blaster ranges. 
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.03.29 09:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: baltec1
To use blasters you have to get up close and it would seem people dont have the balls to do that anymore.
Funny since even during the nano age you did see a lot of blaster ships fielded in her niche roles. The difference however where that blaster pvp was lethal instead of terrible at blaster ranges.
Difference was you could get out of a fight very easily back then while now you have to commit.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.29 10:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: baltec1
To use blasters you have to get up close and it would seem people dont have the balls to do that anymore.
Funny since even during the nano age you did see a lot of blaster ships fielded in her niche roles. The difference however where that blaster pvp was lethal instead of terrible at blaster ranges.
Difference was you could get out of a fight very easily back then while now you have to commit.
In a blaster ship? I never realized this. 
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.29 10:19:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tippia on 29/03/2011 10:21:42
Originally by: captain skinback
approach target so you get to point blank range
Good idea. Fly straight through the opponent's optimal, offering zero transversal and get hit for 103% damage (compared to your 10-15%) while you get into range.
Quote:
web + scram
Good idea. Now you're both webbed and scrammed. Chances are that he's still faster than you and can dictate range (so you still only do 10-15% damage, while he continues to do 103%). Otherwise, you now have a closing speed of maybe 10-15m/s and you have 7km to coverà during those 7 minutes, he will continue to do 103% damage, whereas you sloooowly climb from 10-15% up to max damage. Of course, you could be lucky: maybe he has a distruptor instead of a scramà except that "lucky" in this case means that, while you can dictate range below 10km, he has an easier time hitting you than you have hitting him, which means you lose that damage output superiority the blasters are supposed to offer.
Quote:
f1 f2 f3 f4 etc
If you wait until now to press them, you're already dead (chances are you'd be dead even if you didn't wait, but mehà).
Quote:
you dont have to worry about optimal fall off or even tracking if you got enough web.
The problem is that "enough web" these days is something along the lines of 3+ of themà As it happens, midslots are usually not in abundance on blaster ships. Oh, and even then, you still have less tracking than in the old days (with 3 webs, you're only down to about 1/3d, rather than the usual 1/6th, though, so the guns should be able to handle it). Of course, this doesn't change the fact that the other guns will have better tracking and/or range and thus don't to worry about those by default.
In shortà Originally by: Crabs Collector
They all have their weaknesses and strong points.
àyes, but the problem with blasters is that in order to play to their strong points, you have to play to their weaknesses at the same time.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.29 10:29:00 -
[20]
There is simple yet probably wide reaching fix to Railguns.
Increase max locking range to 400 km same for locking cap.
Increase minimum warp distance to 300.
Fix the dam on grid scanning.
You have a weapon system now with perfectly usable area of being the best in. Who care for homogenized fleets Now you have Rokh fleets MWD around and spanking from 300 km
Pod |
Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.03.29 10:56:00 -
[21]
Reason hybrids aren't fixed is because they have to do 2x the work for it; minmatar and amarr have their own weapon systems not bonused by other races so fixing those was a simple process of elimination.
With hybrids you have to account for both Caldari and Gallente ships and their respective bonuses and slot layouts.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Ticarus Hellbrandt
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Posted - 2011.03.29 11:32:00 -
[22]
blasters dont suck its the ships that use them that suck, blaster ships are to slow/sluggish.
The design of the weapon is obsolete and I cant see how it can be made much better without turning it into a hybrid autocannon/pulse laser.
ps: would be interesting if its ammo had some kind of ecm effects in optimal range or nibbled capacitor instead of just hp.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.29 12:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ticarus Hellbrandt
blasters dont suck its the ships that use them that suck, blaster ships are to slow/sluggish.
Nah. The blasters suck as well. They don't have the tracking to deal with the ranges they require or lack the range that would be suited for the kind of tracking they do have.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
captain skinback
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Posted - 2011.03.29 12:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tippia
all that text
so what you figure sniping with blasters is a better?
you might want to check your facts when it comes to webs.
three webs on any ship will make it crawl. Even the fastest of nano ships are not going anywhere fast with multiple webs + scram. also usually you dont fit more than one web on your blaster ship. the other webs come from your gang members. people tend to forget that blaster boats work best in a gang and not 1v1s. I think thats why everyone is under the illusion that blasters suck.
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Allant Doran
Amarr
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.29 12:18:00 -
[25]
What about if CCP added some fiction to help a change.
''Gallente scientists have been researching advanced forms of blaster and railgun technology. Now, with the use of these 2 new T2 ammunition types, Blasters are able to increase their damage output against shields, or switch out to a shield-bypassing ammunition type to go straight for the armour.''
Just throwing it out there.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.29 12:35:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Tippia on 29/03/2011 12:39:35
Originally by: captain skinback
you might want to check your facts when it comes to webs.
three webs on any ship will make it crawl.
Three webs puts it down to 6% max speed, which is a bit lower than the old single-web; much higher than the old double-web.
àthat's assuming you're not fitting a scram so you have the same tracking situation as in the old days. If you fit a scram, you get a situation where 1 scam + 1 web = 1/6th the tracking of old scram + web; 1 scram + 2 webs = 2/5th the tracking of old scram + web; 1 scram + 3 webs ≈ old scram + web. And that's just to regain the old 1-vs-1 scenario ù if you want more effect than that, you need to apply correspondingly more webs (~2.5+ more than you used to).
So yeah, after three webs, you have a situation that is pretty much comparable with how it used to work. "Enough web" not to worry about range and tracking is a hell of a lot more now than it was in the past.
Quote:
people tend to forget that blaster boats work best in a gang and not 1v1s. I think thats why everyone is under the illusion that blasters suck.
Funnily enough, the argument is often that blasters don't work in fleets, but are better in 1-vs-1à (granted, "fleet" in these cases may mean the standard 50û100km blobs, rather than small-group fights).
Oh and: Quote:
so what you figure sniping with blasters is a better?
In many ways, yes. Fitting null in a ship with a range or falloff bonus is currently one of the best ways to counteract the horrid engagement envelope imposed by blasters.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.29 13:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: captain skinback
people tend to forget that blaster boats work best in a gang and not 1v1s. I think thats why everyone is under the illusion that blasters suck.
Blaster ships suck in gangs, that they suck even more at solo today doesn't make them good gang ships.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Devil's Call
Caldari
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.03.29 13:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Allant Doran
Or switch out to a shield-bypassing ammunition type to go straight for the armour.''
Just throwing it out there.
Are you sure about that? Cause I don't even...
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ôAll fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns.ö |
Kaedama Katar
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Posted - 2011.03.29 13:27:00 -
[29]
Long story short: Compared to the huge commitments associated to flying a blaster ship, the benefits just don't add up.
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Khory Thunderstar
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Posted - 2011.03.29 13:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Allant Doran
What about if CCP added some fiction to help a change.
''Gallente scientists have been researching advanced forms of blaster and railgun technology. Now, with the use of these 2 new T2 ammunition types, Blasters are able to increase their damage output against shields, or switch out to a shield-bypassing ammunition type to go straight for the armour.''
Just throwing it out there.
Congratulations. You killed shield tanking with 1 ammo.
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