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Jeet Kaya
Gallente
The Ouroboros Partnership
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Posted - 2011.04.07 13:37:00 -
[91]
Im not sure if anyone mentioned this in any previous posts, but perhaps what you should have done is to Jettison a couple of Cans with :
.WARNING!! DANGER!! WARNING!! DANGER!!.
.Gatecamp on the other side of gate!! Jump through at your peril!!.
Or something along those lines.
That sucks that you were gagged for trying to warn others and actually fight back against the gatecamp.
o7
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Cone Filler
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.04.07 14:01:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 06/04/2011 07:39:11
So i went with the alt of a friend and my char on both sides, and when a new player jumnped into system i informed him that the gate was camped by smartbombing pirates.
Some ppl headed the warning, others (amazingly) still jumped in and (not really surprisingly) died - natural selection i guess.
But ofc the pirates missed some nice juicy kills (several freighters and industrtials, also a marauder and other stuff listened, thansk me in local or by mail and went the other way / avoided this gate.
The reaction was as expected, first insults by the pirates and their alts, then they actualy made a ticket for spamming and ... voila ... a GM named Horse appeared and gaged the character warning about the gatecamp on the empire side.
This made me ... wtf ? An immediately triggered talk with the GM lead to nothing substantional and i got no answer about the rules of gagging (tiomes, repetitions, ...).
The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute ot two. There was no question about botting for i was at the computer and immediately responding (also talking in local to some folks on empire side) so stripped down a character was gagged (forbidden to write into local) because he was warning other ppl about the gatecamp whenever someone jumped in.
Try to discuss it without flaming please, but i really wonder what you think about a) the action of the GM and b) if the "spamming" policy in this case was really fitting. Eve is so great because oft the freedom it gives players on all sides. GMs acting on behalf of one side or the other that way is not only disturbing but makes me worry quite a bit.
fly dangerous,
Mynx
For you i would advise reading rule #16 in the ToS, but if you are unable to read it ill recap it for you
"inappropriate use of any public channels within the game" e.i. you are not allowed to spam the samething over and over, also Local must not be used as a private intel channel and this is also why you have the option to create your own intel channels
ohhh almost forgot : why do you even bother telling ppl about theese gatecamps? Most are afk anyway so they wont see you, unless YOU lost something to them  this is almost always the case mad carebears yelling at others in local that this and this gate is camped
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Mynx La'Rue
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.04.07 14:03:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
The OP admits she was there for a long time, and that it was 'every 20 seconds' - the reality is (supported by others there) that it was probably a lot worse than that.
Actually no, obviously:
Originally by: Lucas Quaan
Posting of logs is prohibited under current forum rules, so you will have to take my word for it, but looking though my records of the night in question from the Amamake side, the shortest time interval observed between successive posting of the message "OSSG / AMAMAKE gate camped dont warp in (smartbombing)" was 31s and the longest 2m26s. The rest of the recorded conversation had a mix of participants, including persons of the gate camping persuasion, none of which, imho, could be said to be spamming either.
Lucas Quaan was (among others who agreed to my mentioned timetable) there for quite some time obviously and made the work to parse his logs. Im sure if you want hell send them to you so we can put the question about that above aside.
31s fastests and 2m26s longest.
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Mynx La'Rue
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.04.07 14:07:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cone Filler
ohhh almost forgot : why do you even bother telling ppl about theese gatecamps? Most are afk anyway so they wont see you, unless YOU lost something to them this is almost always the case mad carebears yelling at others in local that this and this gate is camped
As i said in the first posting, i havnt. And when you go to the Heretic Army killboards you will see i didnt loose any ship to them for what, 6 month ? So no i wasnt some angry carebear but actually just a friendly soul who used some semi AFK time to warn ppl.
Cant really see how this relevant though.
This typical "turning around" of the situation dosnt apply here. Havnt lost anything, im home in LowSec, dont mission but PVP in my spare time in FW - again, not that it has anything do to with the sitauation.
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.04.07 14:27:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
And ofc if im again semiAFK and cant play actively for an hour or two cause of work ill move myself to Osgg / Ama gate again and do the same. Even if no ships would be saved (which was) its halarious to hear the pirates whine in local all the time.
Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually **** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great.
/thread
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Mynx La'Rue
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.04.07 14:31:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
And ofc if im again semiAFK and cant play actively for an hour or two cause of work ill move myself to Osgg / Ama gate again and do the same. Even if no ships would be saved (which was) its halarious to hear the pirates whine in local all the time.
Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually **** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great.
/thread
Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ?
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.04.07 14:39:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ?
Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to **** off the pirates.
500 words or less, plz. Pictures optional
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Mynx La'Rue
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.04.07 15:10:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ?
Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to **** off the pirates.
500 words or less, plz. Pictures optional
500 words ? Are you kidding ;) ? I surely will try. so lets get my statement and your reaction.
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
And ofc if im again semiAFK and cant play actively for an hour or two cause of work ill move myself to Osgg / Ama gate again and do the same. Even if no ships would be saved (which was) its halarious to hear the pirates whine in local all the time.
Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually **** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great./thread
Now break it down without any room for interpretation:
Me:
Statement 1 : I will warn ppl again when the situation is the same.
Statement 2 : Even if no ships are saved (goal), i will enjoy the whining of the pirates (bonus) - time well spend
You then say:
"Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to **** off the pirates."
and
"Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually **** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great."
The reason i BEGAN with it was simple, caving ships from innocent ppl and hurting the gain (isk/h) of thepirates. Aside from the fact that i never said excusively (like you said i did), noone could know that some "hard and bloodthirsty" pirates began to cry and insult like little childs because they where faced with something they normally force on others. The irony in this situation should be obvious.
Pirates do what they do (especialy gatecamps) because its a sure way to kill ppl who dont want to pvp and then, after getting the loot, enjoy their tears. Not only pirates, but ESPECIALLY pirates tend to apreciate the whining and tears more then the loot actually.
Hearing exactly THAT from them when i began to warn ppl about the trap and after their scouts saw several ships turning around the amazing amound of crying (insults about me, my sexual preferences and the dog i dont have) and curses - which is EXACTLY what fuels PIRATES normally (so they should know better then doing it themselfs) was indeed satisfying. I didnt start with it cause of that (for i didnt expect pirates to be willingly walk into their own trap so to say) but it was definitely a bonus.
To be clear, the pirates in Amamake are on the longer lever nearly all time. We tried over the last month dozends and dozends of times to bind them into a fight, but they just flee once a fleet reaches the numbers that could actually hurt them. With alts on every gate they are not surprisable. And if they dont want to fight, you cant force them.
But you can make their live as hard as possible. As they are doing with everyone around them. That is surely fair game. Obviously ... cause it is the other way around. So ... me screwing their isk/h ratio and saving some ppl from losses was the main goal. Their unexpected whining the definite bonus.
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Kelanoein
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2011.04.10 00:29:00 -
[99]
I agree with the OP. It's a friendly warning in local, and does not qualify as spam. It's a game mechanic, just like the gatecamp. Pirates try to pod people, people try to save people from being podded. Pirates usually win anyway. They have the numbers, the bookmarks to safespots, and warp-in points, and do what they do best. Grief. Somebody enter's local and flies a beacon, or uses system wide communications to relay warnings to traveller's, and the pirates, predictably, report it as spam. It's not. It's counter-griefing. Call it role-playing, or whatever, but it has an intended purpose within the game. Spam does not.
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Character sale forum thread |
Krullskull
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Posted - 2011.04.10 01:02:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Krullskull on 10/04/2011 01:04:18
Quote from OP -post #1
"The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute to two."
Quote from OP -post #18
"Your making it sound a bit to easy and also simplify it too much.
a) I said i posted the warning into the channel whenever a new pilot came in, which was between min 20-30s and max once a minute or two."
now here i see your changing your own fact to lessening your wrongs now i could post logs of the chat in system there and show how often you were posting but forum TOS says i can't but it was more of every 10-20 seconds you were "warning others" now don't get me wrong your cause was for the better and i applaud you for your effort but you did break the rules in doing right but just face the fact you broke the rules and got caught for a good cause just take your punishment and move on.
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Zen Guerrilla
Minmatar
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.04.10 01:07:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Krullskull
Edited by: Krullskull on 10/04/2011 01:04:18
Quote from OP -post #1
"The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute to two."
Quote from OP -post #18
"Your making it sound a bit to easy and also simplify it too much.
a) I said i posted the warning into the channel whenever a new pilot came in, which was between min 20-30s and max once a minute or two."
now here i see your changing your own fact to lessening your wrongs now i could post logs of the chat in system there and show how often you were posting but forum TOS says i can't but it was more of every 10-20 seconds you were "warning others" now don't get me wrong your cause was for the better and i applaud you for your effort but you did break the rules in doing right but just face the fact you broke the rules and got caught for a good cause just take your punishment and move on.
On the other hand, you could just waste less time on awesome formatting powers and more time on actually reading the thread.
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Pew pew!
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Sjofn Eirene
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Posted - 2011.04.10 08:02:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ?
Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to **** off the pirates.
500 words or less, plz. Pictures optional
Ooh, ooh, pick me pick me!
I can do it in two. Counting? "Sand". "Box".
How'd I do?
Srs, do you really want to go down the avenue where doing things for the lulz/tears alone isn't an acceptable reason to do them? 'Cause, I think a few people here play the game for that reason alone. It's part of what makes it great. And it's the single most important part of making EVE not Hello Kitty Online.
Also: no tears like griefbear tears.
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Ra Jackson
PILSGESCHWADER
Monkey Circus
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Posted - 2011.04.10 12:40:00 -
[103]
I love the amount of butthurt gatecamp "pirate" alts in this thread, complaining how someone destroys their game with the help of a chat channel, while they were only practicing their rightful profession of blowing haulers up, most probably 15on1. Go on!
About gagging someone using local: This is ridiculous and beyond any discussion. GM should go to Jita and apply his very same rules, only then we can talk. By this very same rules we could have entire fleets gagged.
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Jno Aubrey
Galactic Patrol
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Posted - 2011.04.10 13:54:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Cone Filler
For you i would advise reading rule #16 in the ToS, but if you are unable to read it ill recap it for you
"inappropriate use of any public channels within the game" e.i. you are not allowed to spam the samething over and over, also Local must not be used as a private intel channel and this is also why you have the option to create your own intel channels
What is "inappropriate" about warning people of a gate camp? You fail at logical thinking while excelling at creative interpretation. You should be a GM.
OP, I would strongly urge you to contact internal affairs about this. The GM may not be playing favorites, but there is a good chance he is either poorly trained or engaging in a power trip at the expense of the customer.
__________________________________________________
Name a shrub after me; something prickly and hard to eradicate. |
Meridith Akesia
Stimulus
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Posted - 2011.04.10 14:25:00 -
[105]
GM Horse Best Horse.
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Todaki Epsilon
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Posted - 2011.04.10 19:20:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Todaki Epsilon on 10/04/2011 19:21:08
EDIT: has been mentioend before, please ignore this post :p
I'm replying here to the OP, i haven't read beyond page 1 :P
Instead of putting a message out every so often (which is indeed spamming), why not put one or two cans near the gate stating "Beyond this is a gatecamp" ? Much easier IMHO.
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northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2011.04.10 20:30:00 -
[107]
If someone was warning you in local because of a good gate camp and you get gag then that GM is out of line...
Oh and for the record GM Horse is a complete moron. He is one of the idiots that don;t have a clue what he is doing..... Why has CCP not fired this moron I don't know.
I would make a complaint against GM Horse because he really doesn't know what he is doing. I have petitioned in the past and GM horse given me wrong information on some programs etc which a senior GM had to correct it.....
Not spamming when sharing good intel.... period
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.10 22:49:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Icer Xx
Let's be honest, our GM's are scrubs that havn't registered on the game, let alone play the game. Comparing our GM to a competent manager of anything other than horse dung, is like comparing goonswarm to neurosurgeons.
Actually, having worked on god knows how many Alliance and Fanfest tournaments with them I can safely say that you're very wrong.
Most of the GM team still enjoy the game to no end and play regularly from what I gather.
Common misconception by people who get whiny about GM decisions and don't have any other ammunition to fire at them.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.10 22:52:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Mynx La'Rue
OPh i forgot the promised picture : The Pirates gatecamping keyboard of glory :
Damn, it's a long time since I've seen my early 2005 creations hit the forums
I was so drunk when I made all of those 
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Vandiilo
Gallente
Full Metal Jacket LLC
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Posted - 2011.04.11 06:23:00 -
[110]
Local is for ASCII *****.es and other such nonsense.
Please don't use it for anything useful.
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Icylce
Frost Palace
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Posted - 2011.04.11 10:04:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Cone Filler
For you i would advise reading rule #16 in the ToS, but if you are unable to read it ill recap it for you
"inappropriate use of any public channels within the game" e.i. you are not allowed to spam the samething over and over, also Local must not be used as a private intel channel and this is also why you have the option to create your own intel channels
This is just your interpretation of rules!
OP if u really wish to investigate the gm and his action contact [email protected] as mentioned on page2.
Also Lady Go Diveher= GM Horses alt? Neither of them do make sense from what I read
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Ohh Yeah
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.04.11 14:49:00 -
[112]
GM Horse responded to my petition a few days ago. He told me my new antics weren't an exploit. P cool guy imp.
Stop spamming local bro.
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Mynx La'Rue
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.04.12 21:18:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 12/04/2011 21:21:48
I got an answer to me open ticket, the situation is escalated to the next level and ill be contacted afterewards.
And for those who cant be asked to ead all postings above, just a quote from someone who whitnessed it.
Originally by: Lucas Quaan
Posting of logs is prohibited under current forum rules, so you will have to take my word for it, but looking though my records of the night in question from the Amamake side, the shortest time interval observed between successive posting of the message "OSSG / AMAMAKE gate camped dont warp in (smartbombing)" was 31s and the longest 2m26s. The rest of the recorded conversation had a mix of participants, including persons of the gate camping persuasion, none of which, imho, could be said to be spamming either.
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Zen Sins
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Posted - 2011.04.13 00:56:00 -
[114]
ACTUAL language of ToS #16 - You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
That's very very vague. But again, how do you define spam?
Quick comment on Amamake pirates and their invincible web of intel... Um, no.
The other day a friendly fleet took a shortcut through Amamake to rendezvous with our fleet for some righteous WT pie. Scout jumped in, managed to get pointed. Pirate count was 12 including T2s and T3s. Rest of fleet (8 T2s total) jumped in and from the Vent chatter it was clear that the pirates basically ****ed on themselves trying to warp off. By the time they managed to get their s*** together and realize they had the stronger fleet, friendly fleet moved on through as the pirates warped back to gate. No losses on either side, but, their disorganization, lack of intel, lack of ability to calculate odds was evident.
Forget spam. Just jump a decently organized fleet in and push it in.
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Panda Name
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.13 07:51:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Zen Sins
ACTUAL language of ToS #16 - You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
That's very very vague. But again, how do you define spam?
Quick comment on Amamake pirates and their invincible web of intel... Um, no.
The other day a friendly fleet took a shortcut through Amamake to rendezvous with our fleet for some righteous WT pie. Scout jumped in, managed to get pointed. Pirate count was 12 including T2s and T3s. Rest of fleet (8 T2s total) jumped in and from the Vent chatter it was clear that the pirates basically ****ed on themselves trying to warp off. By the time they managed to get their s*** together and realize they had the stronger fleet, friendly fleet moved on through as the pirates warped back to gate. No losses on either side, but, their disorganization, lack of intel, lack of ability to calculate odds was evident.
Forget spam. Just jump a decently organized fleet in and push it in.
so you jumped in on them, and they warped off. you didn't catch any of them. sounds like your fleet was about as effective as OP's spam.
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Meta Knite
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Posted - 2011.04.13 11:23:00 -
[116]
Cans are not the most effective way to get people's attention. Normally they are just useless and outdated and most people have gotten used to not even reading or believing them.
Mynx's approach to things if indeed as stated and the messages were written every 30sec-1min on average, I wouldn't consider it spam. Spam would be probably 5 second intervals with something useless or even if useful 5sec intervals would be just annoying. However half a minute to a minute, I don't see anything wrong with it.
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Hans Crow
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:40:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Meta Knite
Cans are not the most effective way to get people's attention. Normally they are just useless and outdated and most people have gotten used to not even reading or believing them.
That could be easily solved by timestamping the can. (As of April 13, 2011 @ 18:45UTC, the other side will spell doom for haulers)
If spamming local is against ToS, then we should definitely change this article:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Avoiding_pirates
so that we don't encourage people to use chat channels. After all, the Evelopedia shouldn't encourage breaching the ToS!  In fact, we should hunt down the author of that piece and ban him from the game for suggesting such a thing!
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:12:00 -
[118]
a possible way to keep from gewtting gagged and still warn people is to anchor a GSC as close to the gate as possible and naming it a warning. most will probably ignore it, however.
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Zen Sins
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Posted - 2011.04.13 19:35:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Zen Sins on 13/04/2011 19:38:15
Originally by: Panda Name
Originally by: Zen Sins
ACTUAL language of ToS #16 - You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
That's very very vague. But again, how do you define spam?
Quick comment on Amamake pirates and their invincible web of intel... Um, no.
The other day a friendly fleet took a shortcut through Amamake to rendezvous with our fleet for some righteous WT pie. Scout jumped in, managed to get pointed. Pirate count was 12 including T2s and T3s. Rest of fleet (8 T2s total) jumped in and from the Vent chatter it was clear that the pirates basically ****ed on themselves trying to warp off. By the time they managed to get their s*** together and realize they had the stronger fleet, friendly fleet moved on through as the pirates warped back to gate. No losses on either side, but, their disorganization, lack of intel, lack of ability to calculate odds was evident.
Forget spam. Just jump a decently organized fleet in and push it in.
so you jumped in on them, and they warped off. you didn't catch any of them. sounds like your fleet was about as effective as OP's spam.
*sigh* 1) I wasn't there, as stated. So -I- didn't jump in on them. 2) The objective was to just pass through Amamake, not "catch" any of them, as stated. 3) As the friendly fleet did cut through Amamake as planned without losses, despite the larger gate camp, they were effective. It's all about the reading comprehension, ya know?
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Mylor Torlone
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Posted - 2011.04.13 20:03:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Icer Xx
Let's be honest, our GM's are scrubs that havn't registered on the game, let alone play the game. Comparing our GM to a competent manager of anything other than horse dung, is like comparing goonswarm to neurosurgeons.
Actually, having worked on god knows how many Alliance and Fanfest tournaments with them I can safely say that you're very wrong.
Most of the GM team still enjoy the game to no end and play regularly from what I gather.
Common misconception by people who get whiny about GM decisions and don't have any other ammunition to fire at them.
Biased source is biased.
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