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GM Power abuse in Pirate Gatecamps

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Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.06 07:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 06/04/2011 07:39:11 Hey guys, the reason i post it in this forum is simply because i didnt find a better one - and it seems to be fitting because it touches the areas of surely crime and also pvp. The reason i post it at all is that i would be interested in your opinion about the actions of the GM (reasonable or wrong) and maybe even an official statement cause my first ticket was shot down by the GM concerning this, the 2nd is unanswered. As a "disclaimer" maybe first a general word to the topic i wanted to open. Pirate (or all for this matter) gatecamps are not only competely ok in my eye, but also part of what makes the game great - freedom. That is not the point. The point is GMs influencing inGame events by abusing their power. Please read on. What happened ? The well known Amamake / Osoggur gate (spelling?) was camped on the LowSec side by pirate (as usual) which managed to get a nice whooping 99% of the ships flying through and about 90% of all pods - amazing how many ppl still dont know how to avoid getting podded in lowSec. The setups was as usual, a Smartbombing BS to kil pods and light ships warping to the gate from one side, T3s, BCs, Cynabals and other stuff sensor boosting to get ppl warping in from empire. As i said above, gatecamps are a part of the game and ppl who fly in this area really should know about this by now. PPL still flying in without either asking before jumping, taking the other way around of flying to the gate directly on 0 .. well ... NEARLY deserve to die. But watching in a cloaky 20 ppl dying with pods in under 10 minutes made me decide to help the helpless and annoy the pirates for i also at the point simply had the time to do it (on a sidenote, many ppl tried to battle the pirates especially on that gate to drive them off but having neutral alts on all gates and warping on safespots when the local count goes up but 1.2 made this nearly impossible). So i went with the alt of a friend and my char on both sides, and when a new player jumnped into system i informed him that the gate was camped by smartbombing pirates. Some ppl headed the warning, others (amazingly) still jumped in and (not really surprisingly) died - natural selection i guess. But ofc the pirates missed some nice juicy kills (several freighters and industrtials, also a marauder and other stuff listened, thansk me in local or by mail and went the other way / avoided this gate. The reaction was as expected, first insults by the pirates and their alts, then they actualy made a ticket for spamming and ... voila ... a GM named Horse appeared and gaged the character warning about the gatecamp on the empire side. This made me ... wtf ? An immediately triggered talk with the GM lead to nothing substantional and i got no answer about the rules of gagging (tiomes, repetitions, ...). The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute ot two. There was no question about botting for i was at the computer and immediately responding (also talking in local to some folks on empire side) so stripped down a character was gagged (forbidden to write into local) because he was warning other ppl about the gatecamp whenever someone jumped in. Try to discuss it without flaming please, but i really wonder what you think about a) the action of the GM and b) if the "spamming" policy in this case was really fitting. Eve is so great because oft the freedom it gives players on all sides. GMs acting on behalf of one side or the other that way is not only disturbing but makes me worry quite a bit. fly dangerous, Mynx
Kitty McKitty Gallente Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.04.06 07:48:00 - [2] Abuse of petitions is just as pro as gatecamping. Furthermore, I am certain that your side of the story is 100% unbiased so I couldn't possibly comment further. ~~~
Ifly Uwalk Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency	Posted - 2011.04.06 08:05:00 - [3] If it really happened as you describe then the good GM Horse was obviously way out of line. I'm not seeing him gag anyone in Jita local.
Gentle Bra State War Academy	Posted - 2011.04.06 08:16:00 - [4] I ignored your irritating local spam.... then I got podded
Brusanan Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:09:00 - [5] Edited by: Brusanan on 06/04/2011 09:10:42 Edited by: Brusanan on 06/04/2011 09:09:07 <3 GM Horse. It's obvious here that your gag had nothing to do with the gatecamp. Spammers are annoying and all deserve to be gagged. And yes, I think GM Horse should take a trip to Jita. ______
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:13:00 - [6] Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 06/04/2011 09:14:57 Thats not really the point. The point is simply, is it spamming to write a warning in local whenever someone new comes in so he dosnt fly blindly into a gatecamp ? Can a GM actually justify gagging someone warning others that they are flying into a trap - this is simply getting involved in inGame mechanics a GM has no right to get his hands in at all. And ofc this has to be seen in context of the gatecamp. And i expect a GM to see and judge the situation as a whole before taking actions.
Gibbo5771	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:14:00 - [7] I once "swore" in local and got gagged for 24 hours. Not allowed to say "crap" on the interwebs is funny, GMs suck
Brusanan Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Thats not really the point. The point is simply, is it spamming to write a warning in local whenever someone new comes in so he dosnt fly blindly into a gatecamp ? And ofc this has to be seen in context of the gatecamp. And i expect a GM to see and judge the situation as a whole before taking actions. You were spamming. Spamming is spamming. It doesn't matter what your reason was, you were being obnoxious in local, someone petitioned it, and you got gagged for breaking the rules. ______
Soldarius Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:24:00 - [9] Pure *gotry on the part of petitioners. GM Horse is worse one for falling for an obvious abuse of petition system. The obvious solution to annoying spam is to block the offender, not petition. General Losers should HTFU instead of crying to GMs. Originally by:** CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
Dartauw Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Soldarius Pure ***gotry on the part of petitioners. GM Horse is worse one for falling for an obvious abuse of petition system. The obvious solution to annoying spam is to block the offender, not petition. General Losers should HTFU instead of crying to GMs. U mad.. Spaming up local for what ever noble reason is not cool, mmkay. The fact that someone used it to their advantage is just a bonus for them. We already have one Jita, and not even Jita wants to be Jita.
Azhpol Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Brusanan Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Thats not really the point. The point is simply, is it spamming to write a warning in local whenever someone new comes in so he dosnt fly blindly into a gatecamp ? And ofc this has to be seen in context of the gatecamp. And i expect a GM to see and judge the situation as a whole before taking actions. You were spamming. Spamming is spamming. It doesn't matter what your reason was, you were being obnoxious in local, someone petitioned it, and you got gagged for breaking the rules. Pretty sure we know who was running the camp with help of a GM friend Ever notice that while EVE has the spam reporting feature just like WoW, in eve its very specifically isk spammers, and if you use it to report someone spamming normally you can be banned? Sure sounds like spamming is against the official rules there
Dartauw Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:46:00 - [12] Just to add some actual content to the tread: I've had random people at our gatecamp, warning travelers of the camp. Some stayed an hour after getting popped, some made it their mission in EvE to stop us by warning our clientFle. One noob got popped and hung around for a week, waring to our gate at random ranges, getting popped and poded repeatedly and talking crap in local. The only time a GM was ever involved and directly intervened was when the "white knight" would loose patience from seeing all the lemmings jump in regardless and started spaming local.
Brusanan Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Azhpol Pretty sure we know who was running the camp with help of a GM friend Ever notice that while EVE has the spam reporting feature just like WoW, in eve its very specifically isk spammers, and if you use it to report someone spamming normally you can be banned? Sure sounds like spamming is against the official rules there How many things are there that can get you gagged/banned in Eve, and how many have an option in the right click menu? Even if there is no "Report Spammer" option in the right click menu, the EULA still has rules against spamming. They added the "Report ISK Spammer" function because isk spammers need to be dealt with quickly, and without requiring GM intervention. Everything else is less urgent, and can wait for a normal petition to be filed. ______
Valkyriane Blood Money Inc. The Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:53:00 - [14] Gatecamping with a blobb and bubbles are for people who don¦t have balls or/and skills to fight fair agains others... Most of alls, they are not pirates!
Icer Xx Tempest Legion	Posted - 2011.04.06 09:56:00 - [15] Let's be honest, our GM's are scrubs that havn't registered on the game, let alone play the game. Comparing our GM to a competent manager of anything other than horse dung, is like comparing goonswarm to neurosurgeons.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.04.06 10:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Dartauw Originally by: Soldarius Pure ***gotry on the part of petitioners. GM Horse is worse one for falling for an obvious abuse of petition system. The obvious solution to annoying spam is to block the offender, not petition. General Losers should HTFU instead of crying to GMs. U mad.. Spaming up local for what ever noble reason is not cool, mmkay. The fact that someone used it to their advantage is just a bonus for them. We already have one Jita, and not even Jita wants to be Jita. you're a whiner ♥
Jak'rat	Posted - 2011.04.06 10:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local ... every 20-30s That'd be spam, yes. That'd also make the local channel un-usable for everyone else since you turned it into your private crusade platform. So yeah, that could warrant a gag especially if people were asking you to shut up and you carried on. As someone else said - we don't know the whole story. Personally, I'd have just blocked not reported, but if I was living in that system mining or missioning it'd **** me off to just see "oh noes, I lost my shipz do not loose urs" every half minute. Let them jump. Let them learn.
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.06 11:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Jak'rat Originally by: Mynx La'Rue The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local ... every 20-30s That'd be spam, yes. That'd also make the local channel un-usable for everyone else since you turned it into your private crusade platform. So yeah, that could warrant a gag especially if people were asking you to shut up and you carried on. As someone else said - we don't know the whole story. Your making it sound a bit to easy and also simplyfy it too much. a) I said i posted the warning into the channel whenever a new pilot came in, which was between min 20-30s and max once a minute or two. b) i was neither **ed nor angry, i havnt lost a ship in those gatecamps for over 6 month now (you can check the Heretic Army board), the reason i warned ppl was simply out of the goodof my heart. As strange as it may ound in eve. Well .. and to of the pirates a bit, yes. c) LowSec side there was ofc a constant flow of personal insults, comments of my sexual preferences and relationship with my mother as the pirates tried to insult me beeing angry loosing money. But there, and also on the other (HighSec) side only Pirates (on 2 alts watching the gate for the Pilots on Osoggur site) complained and tried to outspam me (everytime i wrote a warning spamming "lols" etc). I checked every comment in locals, from anyone without pirate relation i got thanks and good jobs as tells and statements. Also posting a single warning in local every 20s to 2 minutes dosnt make the local unusable. The problem is simply, where to you draw the line ? The GM simply let the pirates use him and his powers to use inGame goals. Which is clearly wrong. I asked him .. howmany ppl per minute can i warn to not be vien as a spammer ? Where he gave me no answer cause "if he told me that theres potential to abuse" - excuse me ? I asked him if it would change something if i spoke to everyone in system seperately like "Marok in Merlin, DONT jump into Amamake, gate is camped" and his answer was .. "no, this is still spamming." This is just rediculous. I remember a Gag put on Goonfleet after they invaded some systems and where spamming German 2rd Reich paroles all over local. This Gag was even reversed and stated it was a mistake. But warning ppl is ? Is a conversation between 3 PPL over local a SPAM which can end in a gag ? ofc they can use tells, mails or feetchat, but what if they dont ? Someone who gives enemy positions for a fleet over local constandly following the enemy because hes not in a fleet but wants to do something. Gag ? The matter is by far not as easy as you make it sound, and the risk for abuse is simply immense. What is the Spamming policy for ? Jita and ISK Spammers ? They are constandly going on in Rens, Jita and Co without a ban. Scams posted every 30s in local ? "OMG i leave the game and double all money, ssend me 1 million and i send 2 back..." - even those dont get gaged. But intel as a warning over local for pilots fresh warped in are ? Seriously ... ;) Originally by:** Jak'rat it'd **** me off to just see "oh noes, I lost my shipz do not loose urs" every half minute. Let them jump. Let them learn. As i said, i never lost a ship. Which is still beside the point. But EVE is a sandbox game where freedom of action is written in capital letters. You can kill whomever you like. You can scam ppl if they are stupid enough. You can betray your friends and dissolve whole alliances, stealing their stuff. But you cant warn ppl not to fly into a trap without a GM gagging you ? Dont you see the pickle here ?
iCaldari	Posted - 2011.04.06 11:28:00 - [19] I vouch this. Ive had the same exact problem and it was also in amamake. Its really stupid why the ** would we be gagged when all we're doing is warning people for not going through that gate?? Like, its all part of the game, if the pirates dont want me to say something in local , then DEAL WITH IT or GTFO. The local chat is eve, and if gms dont want this kind of situations to be available, then take the local chat out of eve, and stop being ing idiots gagging that dont spam!! Its not like Im spamming a contract to sell every in minute just as everyone does in Jita, however they are not gagged!! WTF IS THIS **??
Misunderstood Genius	Posted - 2011.04.06 11:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Jak'rat Originally by: Mynx La'Rue The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local ... every 20-30s That'd be spam, yes. That'd also make the local channel un-usable for everyone else since you turned it into your private crusade platform. So yeah, that could warrant a gag especially if people were asking you to shut up and you carried on. As someone else said - we don't know the whole story. Personally, I'd have just blocked not reported, but if I was living in that system mining or missioning it'd **** me off to just see "oh noes, I lost my shipz do not loose urs" every half minute. Let them jump. Let them learn. For what is local useful finally? You think that keeping local informed about a gate camp is spamming? I could also define that the gate camp is spamming the gate and makes it unusable for other players. As long as this is a MMORPG and ships and stuff have a real value in time, ISK and RL money it should be more than legal that one or more player warn other players about losing stuff. Because this is a total different intension compared to the usual SCAM. Due to ppl jumping in and out all the time you have to drop a message all the time to get sure that they will read it. OFC the "gate camp lobby" wants to call this as spam because it sucks when a ppl takes the time to keep others informed and make their lol game boring and useless. To call a GM - and probably a "friendly GM" - for this is the typical reaction of such type of guys who like to gank all the time and can't accept that this game is a multiplayer game with the possibility to role play or communicate. I would petition this and escalate to a Senior GM teaching GM Horse the rules.
admiral fovios Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:00:00 - [21] Edited by: admiral fovios on 06/04/2011 12:02:40 Originally by: Jak'rat That'd be spam, yes. That'd also make the local channel un-usable for everyone else since you turned it into your private crusade platform. What are the other uses for local? Outside of trade hubs (where real spam occurs), it's basically unused. Edit: Also, the GMs actions betray his true intentions. The simple solution is tell the "spammer" what he's doing is considered spam, rather than insta-gagging. The fact that a gag was step one is unreasonable, and quite suggestive that GM Horse did not have the noblest intentions.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:06:00 - [22] Edited by: Barakkus on 06/04/2011 12:07:16 They're only going to respond to petitions, they won't be visiting Jita to shut people on a whim up because people are trying to "sell" ****. I think they should just make Jita local not work, but probably won't happen. Probably won't visit Jita for a petition about spamming either because they would never get any other petition answered having to go there to mute thousands of people all the time. Would be nice though if they just removed local from Jita, Rens and Ammar :P You should not be spamming the same message every 20 seconds or whatever it was, it was probably excessive. Just anchor a can and name it "this gate is camped on the other side" or something if you really want to warn people and leave it at that. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
TipsyMcStagger Caldari Spruillo WarDec Corp	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:07:00 - [23] Edited by: TipsyMcStagger on 06/04/2011 12:08:14 IBTL Obviously one of the pirate camp was gm alt. GM's dont just show up insystem and gag ppl for 'spamming'. If they do it's not consistent enough for me to ever believe it's not biased.
Poisona Buccaneer Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 06/04/2011 07:39:11 So i went with the alt of a friend and my char on both sides, and when a new player jumnped into system i informed him that the gate was camped by smartbombing pirates. Mynx See Mynx La'Rue its people like you that pirates hate plus what do you get out of it by telling peopld whats hiding on the other side. Pirate's fuel the carebear market in a good chunk. Stay in empire where you belong mate and go 'back to jita.....kid'
Prince Spiderman	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:15:00 - [25] Originally by: admiral fovios Edited by: admiral fovios on 06/04/2011 12:02:40 Originally by: Jak'rat That'd be spam, yes. That'd also make the local channel un-usable for everyone else since you turned it into your private crusade platform. What are the other uses for local? Outside of trade hubs (where real spam occurs), it's basically unused. Don't let us discuss about high-sec local. It's too complex, bizzar, hilarious and different all the time. Low-sec local is used for smack, noob and pirate tears, epeen, gf??? Best tears are pirate tears. The taste is disgusting and your pee is burning like hell after drinking them. If the story is true then it's nothing new in EVE. Pirates can't lose and playing dirty by abusing a petition or a friendly GM makes sense. That's their style to play. Killing is fine. Losing is like: "You and your falcon are pathtic." "Go and learn real PvP." "You just suck because you fail." "Without your two more accounts you are nothing." ... you wanna hear more about local bull like this? The GM should be perma-banned to a calling center.
0Lona 0ltor	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:28:00 - [26] Set up an Ammake player chat? and drop a high sec box advertising it at the gate. Ie Ammake <---->Varus Intel Anti Pirate Channel. Create warnings in there and you can automate them with the just joined info. You can also ban corps doing the pirating but not their alts.
MrWhitei God Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:46:00 - [27] You could always personalise the message next time with char names your trying to help, instead of the copy,paste same text. tbh tho. Im surprised you got petitioned and very surprised you got gagged
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:47:00 - [28] Non shocker, GMs are terrible and play favorites. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators Hell's Hide-Out	Posted - 2011.04.06 12:55:00 - [29] Convo target and privatley warn them SKUNK (o)
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:00:00 - [30] I have ofc opened another ticket and tried to escalate the situation to the next level, but got no response to it so far. What is important for me right now, is especially to hear what the rest of the community thinks about it. Simply because the potential for abuse is immense, and the use of GM powers for s special cause - either because the GM is willingand personally sympathising of one side, or just naiv - hurts the EVE system greatly. Originally by: Poisona Buccaneer See Mynx La'Rue its people like you that pirates hate plus what do you get out of it by telling peopld whats hiding on the other side. Pirate's fuel the carebear market in a good chunk. Stay in empire where you belong mate and go 'back to jita.....kid' That comment actually made me smile quite a lot. Above is the sum of desperate justifing something that dosnt needs to be justivied. Pirating is a way of lifestyle in EVE, as justified and good or evil then 0.0 Warfare, Merc Work, Mission Running or Faction Warfare. Everyone carves out his personal playground out of the sandbox he enjoys. And ofc everyone dislikes other factions ... a pirate moans about a carebear complaining he got suicide ganked. Or ppl dont like Pandemic Legion because of them using HAC or Tengu fleets to destroy their beloved sniperfleets. Or hate the Goons. Or the other Faction in Faction Warfare because they are blobbing. Again, thats not the point m8. Ofc those pirates at the gate where **ed because i warned several juicy kills they missed. Thats part of the game. As its part of the game they cought some of the other guys jumping through. Your futile and childish attempts to insult in your posting while yourself beeing pro are exactly that. futile and childish. And far from the topic. I myself am active way over a year in Faction Warfare and was active in PVP before that, finding myself basically never in HighSec at all, home in Auga and fighting every day. But what is real PVP? The Faction Warfare i do? Sitting all day on a gate killing single targets and warping immediately to a safespot warned by alts whenever something comes in that can be a danger to me? 0.0 Blob warfare with several hundret ships on every side ? Roaming PVP in medium or small groups or even solo searching fights? It dosnt matter. Its EVE, you play your way and talks about who is 1337, l33ter and the l33test are just philosophical at best, **ed most of the time. Pirates use the system to their advantage, they shouldnt cry if someone else uses it the same way. Pirates stimulate the market as do wars, carebears deliver ships without no war would be possible. PPl like me use other forms of pvp and enjoy the benefits of both sides (pirates give me things to shoot beside the normal wartargets and carebears deliver the hardware). Wanna on one side or the other ? Why ? The system only works cause everything works perfectly together. Its not about playstyles and who has the longest and coolest. Its about GMs using their power to influence game mechanics for one side or the other. Originally by:** Prince Spiderman Best tears are pirate tears. ... That's their style to play. Killing is fine. But losing is a "NO WAY" option followed by typical local quotes like: "You and your 1.000 Falcons and Logistics are pathetic." "Go and learn real PvP." "You just suck because you would fail without your blob." "Without your two more accounts you are nothing." ... you wanna hear more about local bull like this from a 10 men camp using 4 Scimitars or Guardians plus pre-placed probes all the time? There is a special kind of pirates for that but yes, this is so very true. There are exception ofc but especially the kind of pirates who are taking no risks at all tend to act this way.
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:03:00 - [31] Originally by: MrWhitei God You could always personalise the message next time with char names your trying to help, instead of the copy,paste same text. tbh tho. Im surprised you got petitioned and very surprised you got gagged I actually asked the GM if this would mnake any difference .... if i warn the new player personally telling him "Mr.OMGFreighterFUllOfGold, dont jump into Amamake, the gate is camped" but his clear answer was "no, it dosnt change anything its still considered spamming". Tbh i was quite surprised about both things also m8, especially the 2nd. And while i actually really enjoyed the TICs trying to insult me and emoraging in local the thing i am ****ed is the abuse of powers by the gm. And the danger therein.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators Hell's Hide-Out	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue What is important for me right now, is especially to hear what the rest of the community thinks about it. Simply because the potential for abuse is immense, and the use of GM powers for s special cause - either because the GM is willingand personally sympathising of one side, or just naiv - hurts the EVE system greatly. Seriously, get your alt back into the system and spam local chat trying to get people INTO lowsec (thus assisting the pirates) I will petition you for spam, you will be gagged again and there will be no basis for suggesting Horse was pirate biased as he would have gagged any spamming, both one who was hindering and one who was helping the pirates. Very simple test, though you will have to abandon your indignant crusade of righteousness which may be damaging for your self image. SKUNK (o)
Dartauw Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Barakkus Just anchor a can and name it "this gate is camped on the other side" or something if you really want to warn people and leave it at that. This man gets it. You won't be stopped for relaying information about a gate camp, but you will get gaged for spaming if you warn people by spaming. OP is starting to reach for straws and for every second of GM's time he's waisting on this the less sympathy he gets from me. If you really feel that the GM is misusing his power, contact Internal Affairs. Also, why isn't this thread locked for discussing petitions?
Dartauw Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:21:00 - [34] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Dartauw Originally by: Soldarius Pure ***gotry on the part of petitioners. GM Horse is worse one for falling for an obvious abuse of petition system. The obvious solution to annoying spam is to block the offender, not petition. General Losers should HTFU instead of crying to GMs. U mad.. Spaming up local for what ever noble reason is not cool, mmkay. The fact that someone used it to their advantage is just a bonus for them. We already have one Jita, and not even Jita wants to be Jita. you're a whiner This doesn't even feel like a genuine insult, more like when a 12 year old is trying to get the attention of a girl by pulling her hair. Thanks for the attention, but I'm, happily married.
Ezekeil Rage	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:22:00 - [35] I think the most pertinent topic to take from this is the nebulous, inexact definition of spamming. We can be breaking the rules w/o knowing exactly what the rules are! ------------------------------------------------------ Shadow-war - you should click this link
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Barakkus Edited by: Barakkus on 06/04/2011 12:07:16 They're only going to respond to petitions, they won't be visiting Jita to shut people on a whim up because people are trying to "sell" **. I think they should just make Jita local not work, but probably won't happen. Probably won't visit Jita for a petition about spamming either because they would never get any other petition answered having to go there to mute thousands of people all the time. Would be nice though if they just removed local from Jita, Rens and Ammar :P You should not be spamming the same message every 20 seconds or whatever it was, it was probably excessive. Just anchor a can and name it "this gate is camped on the other side" or something if you really want to warn people and leave it at that. An anchored can could have been there for months. The gag is out of order. If it annoyed people, how about using the block feature? As for Jita, lol. It's amusing that it's not ok to warn people about imminent death, but the GMs are so ing useless that Jita is left to rot under 15 tons of ** spam? ffs, the inconsistency is diabolical. And par for the course.
Diesel47	Posted - 2011.04.06 13:32:00 - [37] Just goes to show what kinda noobs gatecamp all day.
Misunderstood Genius	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:06:00 - [38] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 13:00:12 Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 12:56:11 Convo target and privatley warn them. If a pirate was to have his alt in highsec spamming "OMG GET INTO AMMAKE, THERE IS A SANSHA MOTHERSHIP IN HULL" every time a pilot jumped into the high sec system in an effort to tempt them into lowsec, he would be gagged in the same way you were gagged spamming in order to PREVENT people jumping into lowsec. So no favoratism... just Spamming is bad. SKUNK You losers are so creative in finding crap arguments. Your try would be comparable to SCAM because you are spamming bullsh*t in local to cheat players losing their stuff while warning about a gate camp is a real situation on the other side to keep players safe from an existing trap. But I doubt that ppl like you want or will understand the simple difference. "Back to hide in station when your guys log... kid!"
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:10:00 - [39] Originally by: Chesty McJubblies Originally by: Barakkus Edited by: Barakkus on 06/04/2011 12:07:16 They're only going to respond to petitions, they won't be visiting Jita to shut people on a whim up because people are trying to "sell" **. I think they should just make Jita local not work, but probably won't happen. Probably won't visit Jita for a petition about spamming either because they would never get any other petition answered having to go there to mute thousands of people all the time. Would be nice though if they just removed local from Jita, Rens and Ammar :P You should not be spamming the same message every 20 seconds or whatever it was, it was probably excessive. Just anchor a can and name it "this gate is camped on the other side" or something if you really want to warn people and leave it at that. An anchored can could have been there for months. The gag is out of order. If it annoyed people, how about using the block feature? As for Jita, lol. It's amusing that it's not ok to warn people about imminent death, but the GMs are so ing useless that Jita is left to rot under 15 tons of ** spam? ffs, the inconsistency is diabolical. And par for the course. I'd rather have them answering petitions than sitting in Jita all the time to mute thousands of people non stop. There's a finite number of GMs, and their time is better spent answering petitions than moderating Jita. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Theodoric Darkwind Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:24:00 - [40] Originally by: Soldarius Pure ***gotry on the part of petitioners. GM Horse is worse one for falling for an obvious abuse of petition system. The obvious solution to annoying spam is to block the offender, not petition. General Losers should HTFU instead of crying to GMs. Pretty much, if I were the OP I would address this with Internal Affairs, reeks of GM favoritism. Warning people about a gate camp does not = spamming. Of course you would think people would just automatically assume the Ossugur>Amamake gate is camped most of the time but they still jump in. There really and truly is no reason to ever go into Amamake, if you really need to get into metropolis lowsec there are other less camped entry points, Resbroko and Otou tend to not be camped much but Hagilur is camped fairly often, and there are other even more roundabout ways of getting into metropolis lowsec.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators Hell's Hide-Out	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:24:00 - [41] Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 14:25:05 Originally by: Misunderstood Genius Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 13:00:12 Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 12:56:11 Convo target and privatley warn them. If a pirate was to have his alt in highsec spamming "OMG GET INTO AMMAKE, THERE IS A SANSHA MOTHERSHIP IN HULL" every time a pilot jumped into the high sec system in an effort to tempt them into lowsec, he would be gagged in the same way you were gagged spamming in order to PREVENT people jumping into lowsec. So no favoratism... just Spamming is bad. SKUNK You losers are so creative in finding crap arguments. Your try would be comparable to SCAM because you are spamming bullsht in local to cheat players losing their stuff while warning about a gate camp is a real situation on the other side to keep players safe from an existing trap. But I doubt that ppl like you want or will understand the simple difference. "Back to hide in station when your guys log... kid!" Well firstly its not illegal to scam so thats your main point out the window. But the scenario i present can be expanded to cover your misgivings. 1) I can sit in a higsec system and warn of a non exsisting gate camp. DO NOT JUMP INTO ZINKON THERE IS A GATE CAMP THERE!!!!!! After a while, GM horse will come into system and gag me for spamming. This aids nobody and shows no favouritism as there was no gate camp in the first place. GM Horse simply stopped me spamming local.* 2) I can spot a faction rat in a belt in a camped low sec system, and pop next door into highsec and spam local with "THERE IS A FACTION RAT IN THE BELT NEXT DOOR!!!!". Pilots going into lowsec would be popped by the camp, but at no point was I lying about a faction rat. After a while GM horse will come into system and gag me for spamming. This actualy HINDERS the pirates and refutes the OPs agruments that the GMs are biased. GM Horse simply stopped me spamming local. 3) The OP sits in local and shouts THERE IS A CAMP NEXT DOOR every 45 seconds as new people arrive. After a while, GM horse arrives in local and gags him for spamming. This helped the pirates. GM Horse simply stopped him spamming local. In All Cases The Message In local was irrelevant. Who profitied from the spamming was irrelevant. The repetitive spamming WAS REVLEANT and resulted rightly in a gag SKUNK (o)
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:34:00 - [42] Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 06/04/2011 14:40:15 Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 06/04/2011 14:37:24 OP: Whether you're for or against lowsec PVP / piracy, what you are doing is actually spamming in the local channel to prevent the legitimate use of others of a gameplay tactic. Your "good deed" benefits one group by removing benefits from the other. Players have hundreds of ways of knowing danger is ahead. If they don't, their loss. They're **ing idiots. 'Spamming' into Jita/Amarr local your sell/buy orders, 'legitimate' or not, is also legitimate gameplay and should not be removed. Users are able to block this, should they not wish to see it. Therefore, what you were doing is spamming pointlessly** and the GM was exactly right. EDIT: no you were not warning freighters / Marauders and other high-cost & skill ships/pilots. You were 'saving' a few shuttles / noobships and plucky haulers. Loading Amamake on battleclinic will show this to be true. Don't big-up yourself. EDIT2: Please show me all the freighter kills from where you were gagged and thus unable to warn.
Ezekeil Rage	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:41:00 - [43] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Therefore, what you were doing is spamming pointlessly and the GM was exactly right. Whether what she was doing was pointless or productive is immaterial to the subject. Whether it was for the benefit or hindrance of others, is also immaterial. The important thing from all of this, is that the rules for what exactly is construed as "spam" seems to be arbitrarily determined, if what was told is truthful and accurate. I wouldn't consider messages directed towards individuals in local to be spam. I wouldn't consider a varying message every 30s in local spam. The same message, typed in exactly the same manner, at precise intervals in rapid succession, causing instant screen scroll - I would consider spam. What we should try and get out of this are precise definitions. Otherwise, how can we avoid breaking rules? ------------------------------------------------------ Shadow-war - you should click this link
Lucas Quaan Rens 911 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:42:00 - [44] This is interesting. I was in Amamake for a while last night when this was going on and in my opinion it was definitely not spam. If indeed even typing personal messages would have had the same outcome, this then begs the question what local is for in the first place. If it is a policy to arbitrarily gag people without warning, they should probably clarify this with a defined limit of how many lines per minute you are allowed to say. Looking at my logs, I have personally had conversations in other local channels that clearly exceeded the frequency of the case at hand, unless of course here the message itself was considered objectionable. It would benefit us all to have some answers on this issue, but more importantly to free karttoon.
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Ezekeil Rage Whether what she was doing was pointless or productive is immaterial to the subject. Whether it was for the benefit or hindrance of others, is also immaterial. The important thing from all of this, is that the rules for what exactly is construed as "spam" seems to be arbitrarily determined As it should be. Case by case basis is the only way to deal with something like this. OP was clearly trying to stop someone else (the pirates) playing the game by her actions. The EULA is clear on how this sits.
Fearless Femme	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:49:00 - [46] Most of you are idiots and completely illogical. Suppose the OP had simply carried on a conversation with someone in local chat. A very long one. Is that spamming? No. Spamming local doesn't refer to most of what is going on in Jita or, by your own logic, it would be stopped. For the previous poster, if the issue were legitimate game play, then the OP could have sat in local typing 'OMG' every 20 secs and it wouldn't be spam, so you can shut up now. Spamming local is when those people (often in Jita) post big blocks of images in endless series so that no one can even read local and which serves no purpose at all. So OP, put the GMs to the test. Go into that system again. In local, have a conversation with someone, anyone, an alt, yourself, God, whoever. Just keep using your key phrase "smart bomb gate camp in [system name]" over and over during the conversation. "Did you see that phrase, Other Guy?" "have you ever had to jump into a camp like phrase?" and so on. If you've got an alt or a buddy, no one can complain. btw to the ***hole who petitioned you, if your gameplay style is so weak that all it takes to make it useless is local chat, you're an idiot.
Ezekeil Rage	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher As it should be. Case by case basis is the only way to deal with something like this. OP was clearly trying to stop someone else (the pirates) playing the game by her actions. The EULA is clear on how this sits. I disagree with both points. 1) The policy in place for the particulars of what defines "spam" needs to be made public. Legislation should not be arbitrarily enforced. Ever. 2) By that logic, any hindrance to the way another person plays the game is disallowed. Miner's may no longer have fear of operating in null sec space, as pirates are no longer allowed to stop them from playing the game. The pirates in this case had the freedom to do whatever they wanted still, OP just operated in opposition - which is both desirable and encouraged. You can't have it both ways. You can't agree that the reason for what she was doing was immaterial, then declare it be against the EULA and also say that enforcement needs to be discretionary when the reason doesn't factor into the issue at hand. ------------------------------------------------------ Shadow-war - you should click this link
Icer Xx Tempest Legion	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:58:00 - [48] Spamming isn't even a major concern of the GM's. Spamming is not mentioned in the EULA in any way shape or form, and is out of the jurisdiction of members attemptiong to regulate that.
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Brusanan Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Thats not really the point. The point is simply, is it spamming to write a warning in local whenever someone new comes in so he dosnt fly blindly into a gatecamp ? And ofc this has to be seen in context of the gatecamp. And i expect a GM to see and judge the situation as a whole before taking actions. You were spamming. Spamming is spamming. It doesn't matter what your reason was, you were being obnoxious in local, someone petitioned it, and you got gagged for breaking the rules. Guess who? The pirates who's parade he was raining on. There's no such thing as overkill, only degrees of effectiveness.
Lucas Quaan Rens 911 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2011.04.06 14:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Whether you're for or against lowsec PVP / piracy, what you are doing is actually spamming in the local channel to prevent the legitimate use of others of a gameplay tactic. Your "good deed" benefits one group by removing benefits from the other. Players have hundreds of ways of knowing danger is ahead. If they don't, their loss. They're **ing idiots. 'Spamming' into Jita/Amarr local your sell/buy orders, 'legitimate' or not, is also legitimate gameplay and should not be removed. Users are able to block this, should they not wish to see it. Therefore, what you were doing is spamming pointlessly** and the GM was exactly right. I'm afraid I must point out an inconsistency to your argument here. There is nothing inherently different in relaying, as it where, "intel" or promoting your contracts. Both are considered legitimate gameplay and thus allowable under local chat rules. Furthermore, neither prevents legitimate gameplay for any other parties, such as the pirates on the gate or your competitors in the contract market. The only aspect that would push either into spam would be the frequency with which they are posted. One could then argue, like the OP, that every new member entering local chat would be a new audience for the message and thus warrant a repetition thereof. If there is somehow an official policy with regards to this, it would behove us all to free karttoon.
Misunderstood Genius	Posted - 2011.04.06 15:00:00 - [51] Edited by: Misunderstood Genius on 06/04/2011 15:06:03 I recognize a white shark near the beach and I am spamming local all the time with my megaphone: "DO NOT GO INTO WATER! THERE'S A SHARK!" I recognize a white shark near the beach, dropped a red ball into the water before and I am spamming local all the time with my megaphone: "THE ONES WHO'S PICKING UP MY SON'S BALL WILL RECEIVE 10 BUCKS FOR IT!" In both cases a public officer will force me to shut up for voice spamming the people. That makes sense indeed.
Velocity Prime Misfit Toys Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2011.04.06 15:01:00 - [52] I think the real question here is, when are CCP going to stop hiring ******s to be GM's? Smuggling, booster sales, recruitment. Visit my blog.
Icer Xx Tempest Legion	Posted - 2011.04.06 15:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Velocity Prime I think the real question here is, when are CCP going to stop hiring ****s to be GM's? Probably when the only people that apply stop being ****s.
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.04.06 15:55:00 - [54] Originally by: Ezekeil Rage 1) The policy in place for the particulars of what defines "spam" needs to be made public. Legislation should not be arbitrarily enforced. Ever. Challenge for you - write the rule. Write it, post it here, and I will show you ways it can be manipulated to the advantage of those seeking to break it. Who then have written evidence they're 'right' or 'misinformed.' There's a reason why GM's correspondence is banned and this is it. Quote: 2) By that logic, any hindrance to the way another person plays the game is disallowed. Miner's may no longer have fear of operating in null sec space, as pirates are no longer allowed to stop them from playing the game. The pirates in this case had the freedom to do whatever they wanted still, OP just operated in opposition - which is both desirable and encouraged. She did not, however, operate in opposition using ANY gameplay mechanic available. She simply spammed it up to stop others playing the game. Miners have many ways of doing the above safely within the game, using chat to manipulate to their advantage is not one of them. I've bolded the part that is just your personal opinion and should have zero bearing on any decision. Out of context example: 'Market PVP' Case a: 2 players are in a buy / sell war over Hurricanes in Amarr. Both use all the gameplay elements to their advantage, both player skill and market skills. Case b: 2 players are in a buy / sell war over Hurricanes in Amarr. One player uses gameplay elements to their advantage. The other player spams local with stories of projectile nerfs and "OMG THE PRICE IS ALREADY FALLING SELL FAST!" every 20-30 seconds to try to influence the price. One is clearly intended by CCP, the other not.
Misunderstood Genius	Posted - 2011.04.06 16:01:00 - [55] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Ezekeil Rage 1) The policy in place for the particulars of what defines "spam" needs to be made public. Legislation should not be arbitrarily enforced. Ever. Challenge for you - write the rule. Write it, post it here, and I will show you ways it can be manipulated to the advantage of those seeking to break it. Who then have written evidence they're 'right' or 'misinformed.' There's a reason why GM's correspondence is banned and this is it. Quote: 2) By that logic, any hindrance to the way another person plays the game is disallowed. Miner's may no longer have fear of operating in null sec space, as pirates are no longer allowed to stop them from playing the game. The pirates in this case had the freedom to do whatever they wanted still, OP just operated in opposition - which is both desirable and encouraged. She did not, however, operate in opposition using ANY gameplay mechanic available. She simply spammed it up to stop others playing the game. Miners have many ways of doing the above safely within the game, using chat to manipulate to their advantage is not one of them. I've bolded the part that is just your personal opinion and should have zero bearing on any decision. Out of context example: 'Market PVP' Case a: 2 players are in a buy / sell war over Hurricanes in Amarr. Both use all the gameplay elements to their advantage, both player skill and market skills. Case b: 2 players are in a buy / sell war over Hurricanes in Amarr. One player uses gameplay elements to their advantage. The other player spams local with stories of projectile nerfs and "OMG THE PRICE IS ALREADY FALLING SELL FAST!" every 20-30 seconds to try to influence the price. One is clearly intended by CCP, the other not. Funny is: CCP will not care about this but GM Daddy will appear in Ossogur local, where is usually silence to gag one player trying to warn about a camp.
Firebolt145 The Hatchery	Posted - 2011.04.06 16:04:00 - [56] Edited by: Firebolt145 on 06/04/2011 16:04:42 Whether or not this is considered 'spamming', I don't know. But imo the GM was a bit trigger-happy; best course of action would be to warn you first.
Rorschach Hunter Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.06 16:43:00 - [57] If your messages are the only thing in Local, and you keep spewing them every minute, then YES you're a spammer. I blocked you because page after page of exactly the same sentence was getting ruddy annoying, somebody else obviously got more offended or decided to get at you using the ammunition you provided. Maybe you got harshly done, but it's kind of funny that you're so indignant about getting slapped down when you're so convinced you were playing the White Knight - while the stories of what the GM did / said are getting more wild every time you post. And yeah, people chat in Local channels. Maybe not all the time but if you live in a system you get to see the same names, start up rambling chats while you mine, or mission (or gate camp for that matter). Difference being you could be having a long conversation that is "blocking" Local, but anyone can join in and the conversation evolves. Hard to join in with a wall of repeat text. As somebody said, just park a can there. "This gate is often camped by pirates". Or if you're really wetting yourself to be some kind of instant-relay information hero, start a live updates intel channel and leave a can with the name. Job done. Rorsch
Zen Sins	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:00:00 - [58] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Challenge for you - write the rule. Write it, post it here, and I will show you ways it can be manipulated to the advantage of those seeking to break it. Who then have written evidence they're 'right' or 'misinformed.' There's a reason why GM's correspondence is banned and this is it. That's an interesting challenge and I look forward to seeing attempts to define "spam". I think it's a bit like one of the US Supreme Ct. Justices who is paraphrased as saying, "I don't know how to define ****ography, but I know it when I see it." It's up to the GMs to make that call on spam. Once you define it, griefers will delight in custom-tailoring spam that falls outside of the definition, but clearly IS spam. Also, as to the subject of warning... A warning invites debate, which invites argument, and would probably just inflame the situation. Temp gags for 10-30 minutes or even an hour are such a light punishment that they almost ARE warnings.
Awesome Possum Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:02:00 - [59] Originally by: Jak'rat Originally by: Mynx La'Rue The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local ... every 20-30s That'd be spam, yes. That'd also make the local channel un-usable for everyone else since you turned it into your private crusade platform. So yeah, that could warrant a gag especially if people were asking you to shut up and you carried on. As someone else said - we don't know the whole story. Personally, I'd have just blocked not reported, but if I was living in that system mining or missioning it'd **** me off to just see "oh noes, I lost my shipz do not loose urs" every half minute. Let them jump. Let them learn. no, typing something in local every 20-30s isn't spam. ♥
Aaron Aardvark Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:09:00 - [60] If what the OP did is considered spamming then I see lots of people that I should petition every day. Can a GM clarify how long a gap is needed between messages?
Hathrul	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:09:00 - [61] Im not really sure if the GM is abusing his power. nothing you said actually proofs anything. however i do find it funny that a GM gets a petition for spamming and actually doesnt reply with "lol, use block button". Not because spamming is good, or justified or anything, but simply by gaging someone for spamming i now expect GM's in at least the 4 major trade hubs gaging the people spamming there. Or is spamming allowed in some systems but not others? Does someone have to petition it to make it an offense? i can see how you cant gag every spammer in eve, but some systems are just filled with them. everyone just blocks them and forgets about those, but if that is the answer in jita, again there is no reason to gag someone anywhere else for spamming. afaik the EULA doesnt say anything about spamming. im sure it mentions something about causing lag, and i suppose spamming can. it also mentions stuff about hurting other people, verbal abuse etc, im sure. but if the OP was only warning ppl noone gets hurt, and 1 person causing lag? in a good convo i type a lot faster then 1 msg every 30 seconds, and yes, i do enjoy chatting in local sometimes. does that make me a spammmer either be consistant and gag spammers, ie: place a few gm's in every hub that do nothing but, or tell people to use the block button, thats what its for. and even if someone caused lag.....just convo, show your shiny GM batch and tell him to STFU. straight gag? GM must have had a bad day
Bloodpetal The Black Company TBC	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:16:00 - [62] Clearly abuse of power. A) Why was no warning given? You don't give punitive measures without warning - "Don't do this again". B) The context of the message is absolutely valid, in this case a local intel warning - perfectly legitimate use of Local Channel. C) If the pilot was private convo-ing each person that came in, the net result would be the same - if not better results. This definitely has to be petitioned on your end in game and an inquiry done on why the results were given by another GM than that which responded to the call. This is very shady, and I recommend you look into it further. You won't get any official notification from CCP on the matter, but at least you'll know that you had it investigated. ____________________________________________________ Bastet :: Captain
Jak'rat	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:24:00 - [63] Originally by: Bloodpetal Clearly abuse of power. A) Why was no warning given? You don't give punitive measures without warning - "Don't do this again". B) The context of the message is absolutely valid, in this case a local intel warning - perfectly legitimate use of Local Channel. C) If the pilot was private convo-ing each person that came in, the net result would be the same - if not better results. This definitely has to be petitioned on your end in game and an inquiry done on why the results were given by another GM than that which responded to the call. This is very shady, and I recommend you look into it further. You won't get any official notification from CCP on the matter, but at least you'll know that you had it investigated. Assuming the OP is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the first place; has represented all sides of the story in full and equal measure; and is not embellishing or escalating the details each time he responds. Oh wait...
Ezekeil Rage	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:37:00 - [64] Edited by: Ezekeil Rage on 06/04/2011 17:39:24 Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Challenge for you - write the rule. Write it, post it here, and I will show you ways it can be manipulated to the advantage of those seeking to break it. Who then have written evidence they're 'right' or 'misinformed.' There's a reason why GM's correspondence is banned and this is it. Not my game, so I won't try to write it's rules. I do have a reasonable expectation to know what the rules are so that I can abide by them. If the writer of the rules finds them to be easily manipulated in ways that do not meet their desired affect, change the rules, and inform the player base. Originally by: Lady Go Diveher She did not, however, operate in opposition using ANY gameplay mechanic available. She simply spammed it up to stop others playing the game. Miners have many ways of doing the above safely within the game, using chat to manipulate to their advantage is not one of them. Communication isn't a gameplay element? Fleets should stop using chat then to coordinate targets, and woe-be-unto any who use third-party voice comms. That thar be cheating. Scammers everywhere are also going to be sorely depressed to know that manipulation via chat to their advantage is not something they can do within the game. Unless you mean it's okay for one group to use it to their advantage but not another? Originally by: Lady Go Diveher I've bolded the part that is just your personal opinion and should have zero bearing on any decision. Out of context example: 'Market PVP' Case a: 2 players are in a buy / sell war over Hurricanes in Amarr. Both use all the gameplay elements to their advantage, both player skill and market skills. Case b: 2 players are in a buy / sell war over Hurricanes in Amarr. One player uses gameplay elements to their advantage. The other player spams local with stories of projectile nerfs and "OMG THE PRICE IS ALREADY FALLING SELL FAST!" every 20-30 seconds to try to influence the price. One is clearly intended by CCP, the other not. Where do you draw your "clearly" reasoning from? As far as I'm concerned, using submissive tactics to undermine a competitor is completely within the rights of the player-base. And again, chat isn't a gameplay element in a social game? By your own stated reasoning, the other players can research the situation themselves and make decisions on their own. You use the argument that players are only allowed to use specific tools to prove something or inform themselves, but then not use available tools to disprove something as well. You can't have it both ways and expect to be taken seriously. I sense a pattern. ------------------------------------------------------ Shadow-war - you should click this link
Zangorus	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:41:00 - [65] Unban him ffs
Lucas Quaan Rens 911 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2011.04.06 17:51:00 - [66] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Ezekeil Rage 2) By that logic, any hindrance to the way another person plays the game is disallowed. Miner's may no longer have fear of operating in null sec space, as pirates are no longer allowed to stop them from playing the game. The pirates in this case had the freedom to do whatever they wanted still, OP just operated in opposition - which is both desirable and encouraged. She did not, however, operate in opposition using ANY gameplay mechanic available. She simply spammed it up to stop others playing the game. Miners have many ways of doing the above safely within the game, using chat to manipulate to their advantage is not one of them. Again your logic is showing considerable flaws, to the point where one must question your motives, assuming no actual fault of reason. At no point does alerting the public to a potentially dangerous situation impair the pirates ability to inflict violence on the boats that ignore said warning. In fact, doing so is clearly within the game, as evidenced by the fact that local chat is indeed part of the game client. I bolded the part that is just a ridiculous fallacy and should have zero bearing on any decision. A better analogy would be me creating courier contracts in order to free karttoon. One is clearly intended, the other not.
Brynhilda Amarr Gun Metal Hit Sqaud	Posted - 2011.04.06 18:01:00 - [67] Since you're gagged, you could always go with Plan B which would consist of anchoring a container by the gate with a warning. Problem is that it won't work very well but its at least something.
Wolf Kruol Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.06 18:05:00 - [68] I'm curious, where does one go when a GM abuses there power? Who disciplines them? Or do we just send an email to customer support and hope they will answer back? The only contact is via email to [email protected]. Would it even work? Any takers on this?
Xenuria Gallente Dziga royal industries Astronautic Enterprises of Tomorrow	Posted - 2011.04.06 19:14:00 - [69] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 06/04/2011 07:39:11 Hey guys, the reason i post it in this forum is simply because i didnt find a better one - and it seems to be fitting because it touches the areas of surely crime and also pvp. The reason i post it at all is that i would be interested in your opinion about the actions of the GM (reasonable or wrong) and maybe even an official statement cause my first ticket was shot down by the GM concerning this, the 2nd is unanswered. As a "disclaimer" maybe first a general word to the topic i wanted to open. Pirate (or all for this matter) gatecamps are not only competely ok in my eye, but also part of what makes the game great - freedom. That is not the point. The point is GMs influencing inGame events by abusing their power. Please read on. What happened ? The well known Amamake / Osoggur gate (spelling?) was camped on the LowSec side by pirate (as usual) which managed to get a nice whooping 99% of the ships flying through and about 90% of all pods - amazing how many ppl still dont know how to avoid getting podded in lowSec. The setups was as usual, a Smartbombing BS to kil pods and light ships warping to the gate from one side, T3s, BCs, Cynabals and other stuff sensor boosting to get ppl warping in from empire. As i said above, gatecamps are a part of the game and ppl who fly in this area really should know about this by now. PPL still flying in without either asking before jumping, taking the other way around of flying to the gate directly on 0 .. well ... NEARLY deserve to die. But watching in a cloaky 20 ppl dying with pods in under 10 minutes made me decide to help the helpless and annoy the pirates for i also at the point simply had the time to do it (on a sidenote, many ppl tried to battle the pirates especially on that gate to drive them off but having neutral alts on all gates and warping on safespots when the local count goes up but 1.2 made this nearly impossible). So i went with the alt of a friend and my char on both sides, and when a new player jumnped into system i informed him that the gate was camped by smartbombing pirates. Some ppl headed the warning, others (amazingly) still jumped in and (not really surprisingly) died - natural selection i guess. But ofc the pirates missed some nice juicy kills (several freighters and industrtials, also a marauder and other stuff listened, thansk me in local or by mail and went the other way / avoided this gate. The reaction was as expected, first insults by the pirates and their alts, then they actualy made a ticket for spamming and ... voila ... a GM named Horse appeared and gaged the character warning about the gatecamp on the empire side. This made me ... wtf ? An immediately triggered talk with the GM lead to nothing substantional and i got no answer about the rules of gagging (tiomes, repetitions, ...). The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute ot two. There was no question about botting for i was at the computer and immediately responding (also talking in local to some folks on empire side) so stripped down a character was gagged (forbidden to write into local) because he was warning other ppl about the gatecamp whenever someone jumped in. Try to discuss it without flaming please, but i really wonder what you think about a) the action of the GM and b) if the "spamming" policy in this case was really fitting. Eve is so great because oft the freedom it gives players on all sides. GMs acting on behalf of one side or the other that way is not only disturbing but makes me worry quite a bit. fly dangerous, Mynx Yes Yes Yes.. I understand what you are trying to say.. I have just one question, but who was phone? Vote Support For Great Justice
Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.06 19:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Wolf Kruol I'm curious, where does one go when a GM abuses there power? Who disciplines them? Or do we just send an email to customer support and hope they will answer back? The only contact is via email to [email protected]. Would it even work? Any takers on this? Page 2 of this thread has the info you are looking for. Look for "Internal Affairs"
Shad0w Hawk Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.04.06 21:21:00 - [71] These are some great tears from the OP. I watched that guy ctrl-v his little text into local in 2 systems every 5 seconds for hours. Wasn't until after like 2 hours when a couple of us petitioned him for ****ting up our local. Oh and I was the highsec scout for the entire night. The biggest thing we missed due to him was a battleship. :)
Jones Bones Heretic Army	Posted - 2011.04.06 22:26:00 - [72] FREE Mynx La'Rue! FREE Mynx La'Rue! FREE Mynx La'Rue! In all honesty, gagging you without a warning seems...harsh (IBTL for discussing moderation/adminning). But I remember blocking you because you were spamming so fast (5-10 seconds) that it was interrupting my local trolling. Do NOT interrupt Amamake local to this extent. Heretic Army pilots are very low on the evolutionary ladder and we are incapable of handling such complex ideas as multiple chat windows. Ergo, we use local for corp/fleet/etc chat. TLDR: FREE Mynx La'Rue!
Mak Gruber	Posted - 2011.04.06 22:42:00 - [73] Yeah ...G.M should of minded his business on this one. Take his ass to one of the major 3 hubs... and actually tackle REAL spammers...you know the bot kind. If someone wants to sit warning people for an hour, more power to them. Take this issue to internal affairs.
Kitty McKitty Gallente Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.04.06 22:43:00 - [74] Originally by: Jones Bones Do NOT interrupt Amamake local to this extent. Heretic Army pilots are very low on the evolutionary ladder and we are incapable of handling such complex ideas as multiple chat windows. Ergo, we use local for corp/fleet/etc chat. Love it ~~~
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.04.06 22:47:00 - [75] Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 06/04/2011 22:48:02 @Ezekeil / Lucas There's no failure in logic in my comments, you're just reading them with a different intent than I tried to convey. Whilst obviously chat is part of the game, abusing and disrupting it to gain an advantage is pretty much always going to be frowned upon. The OP admits she was there for a long time, and that it was 'every 20 seconds' - the reality is (supported by others there) that it was probably a lot worse than that. "Flooding" or "scrolling" the chat window in order to disproportionately convey a message is pretty much what spam is on a chat window. Kudos to the guy who made the allegory to **ography - such things are always a matter of exacting context and writing any statement to define it is doomed to fail. Hence all laws and definitions on both, found anywhere, are fluffy. Quote:** Not my game, so I won't try to write it's rules. I do have a reasonable expectation to know what the rules are so that I can abide by them. If the writer of the rules finds them to be easily manipulated in ways that do not meet their desired affect, change the rules, and inform the player base Confirming that what we all want on login each and every day is : "Please read the new EULA and scroll to the bottom to continue and accept the errant comma that gave a slight intent where it was not intended" ANY attempt to define spam means that spammers have an EXACT definition, and can ergo make their spam deviate by a tiny little bit and be within the rules. They'll then take great glee in being so clever, and spam it to all hell. The rule changes, and the cycle repeats. See: Kids testing the new teacher. Kid going from one parent to the other attempting to get a different reply, etc. Ergo my point - make a rule. The fact you can't is the exact point, you can't just decide to sidestep the argument because you can't (As a point of social interest, the very reason judges exist within a legal system is to assess, in effect, problem A against rules and conventions B & C. This is why the exact definition of crimes is not written in an ever increasing attempt to get it right, but is (in many countries) based on precedent and case law history.)
Jude Lloyd	Posted - 2011.04.06 23:38:00 - [76] I was in the camp while you were spamming on both sides, and I have to tell you - It was really annoying. Maybe the GM shut you up because you were being an annoying fruitcake. Also, just play the god damn game. Let the pirates make their money on stupidity. Glory to Mother Amamake!
Wolf Kruol Caldari	Posted - 2011.04.07 05:22:00 - [77] Originally by: Vantoth Page 2 of this thread has the info you are looking for. Look for "Internal Affairs" Interesting and thanks.
Presidente Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.07 10:48:00 - [78] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 07/04/2011 10:54:53 Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 07/04/2011 10:53:06 Originally by: Jude Lloyd I was in the camp while you were spamming on both sides, and I have to tell you - It was really annoying. Maybe the GM shut you up because you were being an annoying fruitcake. Also, just play the god damn game. Let the pirates make their money on stupidity. Glory to Mother Amamake! Please tell me what is annyoing about typing and copy/paste warnings to other player in local? Why do ppl care so much about local? I know Amamake very well and especially in Ossogur there is NOTHING - I repeat: NOTHING - important in local EXCEPT cloaky alts for the camp fgs. Local chat is mainly dead and when someone is dropping warnings I just read and don't care and keep on buring. Even Jita local. I don't care. What could be probably annyoing if I would be a **: it just fills up my logs and will waste my 1TB hard drive space. Holy . That's a serious issue indeed. So why should I care about local? It will do nothing to my game because I am not in Jita to grab great offers from local or talk about other carebears or alts. It's just amusing to see what happende to high-sec hubs. That's CPP's job. They know Jita and if they want they can filter or not. Period. There is nothing important in Jita but the market. So let all these bots spam their *. Again: I don't care. And I swear: all pro's don't care. The only whiners caring about the spam in Ossogur are these camp fgs and wannabe-PvP-noobs believing that warping between station, POS and camp in a fleet makes them looking awesome. To make it clear. Camping is fine. Everything is fine. Just do it. But get your damn lazy kid's ass up and do something different than calling a GM if your secure camping and ganking **** is compromised by someone on the other side.
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.07 11:04:00 - [79] Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 07/04/2011 11:05:57 Originally by: Presidente Gallente The only whiners caring about their definition of spam in Ossogur are these camp f*gs and wannabe-PvP-noobs believing that warping between station, POS and gate in a fleet makes them looking awesome. Naah its ok m8, if you check the last posters youll see its a certain pirate corp / alliance trying to look good. Thats all. And thery do it in the typical manner. Insults and lies. Trying to make other ppl look bad while beeing the 1337 guys - and completely ignoring the topic. Just to make a short summery. Nope, it wasnt spammed every 10s for hours, the timeframe i gave was exactly what it was, once everytime a new pilot came in. Noone except the pirates and their alt had a problem with it. We even had a neutral guy in here posting he whitnessed the whole thing over an extended periot of time and it wasnt spamming at all. Pirates just hate to see otheres make them look bad, waste time and make less money. If ppl can read they noticed there where no tears in this threat except from the pirates. Same was in Amamake where thry actually tried to insult and flame the whole time in the typical childish manner. Also no, there wasnt only one BC that escaped but severa ldozend ships who turned around. That lie is even so stupid i cant believe they tried to sell it ... IF i would have SPAMMED it every 10s NOONE turned back beside 1 ship on this known camped gate ? Ya right. They are contradicting themself nearly every posting. But, as i said in the OP myself, neither beein the cool d0g nor gatecamping was the question, but the way the GM acted in that situation. Thanks for everyone who actually wrote something about this topic and his or her opinion, if you remote the pirate folks psotings it gives not a 100% but definitely a clear tendency. As i said, i escalated the matter higher and will see how the GMs respont now its going higher to the next level. And ofc if im again semiAFK and cant play actively for an hour or two cause of work ill move myself to Osgg / Ama gate again and do the same. Even if no ships would be saved (which was) its halarious to hear the pirates whine in local all the time. Pirate tears, best tears.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.04.07 11:11:00 - [80] Edited by: Lady Spank on 07/04/2011 11:13:59 Originally by: Presidente Gallente Please tell me what is annyoing about typing and copy/paste warnings to other ppl in local? It's called spam and it's annoying as crap and completely unnecessary. If you like it so much why don't you go chill in Jita and GTFO of this thread. At least you seperate pro's from antagonistic ***es. Originally by:** Mynx La'Rue Pirate tears, best tears. Because getting ******s in local gagged is the same as crying. Meanwhile making threads to literally cry about it isn't crying. Some people should drink bleach ingame.
Jones Bones Heretic Army	Posted - 2011.04.07 11:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Presidente Gallente Pro's don't care. ::pro:: I am still siding with OP on this matter. As a GLORIOUS HERETIC COMMANDER I myself have been gagged due to my words in local many times. I find this recent action unjust! But I also stand by my previous post regarding the timing of your posts. If your local chatter interferes with my ability to degrade and humiliate my fail train of whooping tards I will be very sad. And sad pirates are just pathetic.
Rorschach Hunter Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.07 11:59:00 - [82] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Thanks for everyone who actually wrote something about this topic and his or her opinion, if you remote (remove?) the pirate folks psotings it gives not a 100% but definitely a clear tendency. So if you ignore everyone who is on the other side of the arguement, your conclusion is that most people agree with you. Freaking hilarious logic. Besides, I see half a dozen fairly neutral posters who are not pirates, saying what you were doing was "irritating", "annoying" and basically spamming. Maybe you should re-read your thread to see it's a much more even split of opinion than you claim. White Knight to Sin Bin, get over it.
Lucas Quaan Rens 911 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:01:00 - [83] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Whilst obviously chat is part of the game, abusing and disrupting it to gain an advantage is pretty much always going to be frowned upon. The OP admits she was there for a long time, and that it was 'every 20 seconds' - the reality is (supported by others there) that it was probably a lot worse than that. "Flooding" or "scrolling" the chat window in order to disproportionately convey a message is pretty much what spam is on a chat window. Posting of logs is prohibited under current forum rules, so you will have to take my word for it, but looking though my records of the night in question from the Amamake side, the shortest time interval observed between successive posting of the message "OSSG / AMAMAKE gate camped dont warp in (smartbombing)" was 31s and the longest 2m26s. The rest of the recorded conversation had a mix of participants, including persons of the gate camping persuasion, none of which, imho, could be said to be spamming either. FWIW, I too have a history of camping said gate on occasion and am no stranger to the use of warnings on the hi-sec side, no different from those posted outside Tama or Aunenen, other notoriously camped low-sec entrances. Never have I even remotely considered the option to report the concerned citizen alerting the public of my nefarious activities for spamming. Especially since it would do nothing to free karttoon.
Presidente Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:08:00 - [84] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 07/04/2011 12:08:14 Originally by: Rorschach Hunter Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Thanks for everyone who actually wrote something about this topic and his or her opinion, if you remote (remove?) the pirate folks psotings it gives not a 100% but definitely a clear tendency. So if you ignore everyone who is on the other side of the arguement, your conclusion is that most people agree with you. Freaking hilarious logic. Besides, I see half a dozen fairly neutral posters who are not pirates, saying what you were doing was "irritating", "annoying" and basically spamming. Maybe you should re-read your thread to see it's a much more even split of opinion than you claim. White Knight to Sin Bin, get over it. Then these thin-skinned, oversensitive "dozen fairly neutral posters" are really playing the wrong game. Eventually they should look for something "Unicorn Online" where is love, sweet music and local whisper in the air 24/7.
Graic Valente Gallente Valente Galactic Enterprises	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:11:00 - [85] Looking for logic in GM decisions is like trying to define the shape of fire. It can't be done. I was in a very well known channel for market related discussion and a player was posting links to images of bestiality and other similar filth. I raised a petition (with related copy/pasta) and the response was that as this was a "private" channel GMs would take no action. However for some reason the never replied if I asked if I could start the "EVE Bestiality Channel". Talk about mixed signals!
Poisona Buccaneer Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:18:00 - [86] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue But what is real PVP? The Faction Warfare i do? Sitting all day on a gate killing single targets and warping immediately to a safespot warned by alts whenever something comes in that can be a danger to me? 0.0 Blob warfare with several hundret ships on every side ? Roaming PVP in medium or small groups or even solo searching fights? pfft Mynx La'Rue i fell asleep reading your blah blah blah replies. Come and talk to me when your not flying in a fleet of 20-30 plus players constantly and discuss real pvp mate....all gank
cRazYf1St tempered steel	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:28:00 - [87] you should have had a warning but tbh anyone who complains about spamming is stupid unless it offensive obviously. just block them duh? only reason the pirates did anything is because he was obviously stopping them from getting so many kills or they couldn't find a block button?
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.07 12:43:00 - [88] Originally by: Poisona Buccaneer Originally by: Mynx La'Rue But what is real PVP? The Faction Warfare i do? Sitting all day on a gate killing single targets and warping immediately to a safespot warned by alts whenever something comes in that can be a danger to me? 0.0 Blob warfare with several hundret ships on every side ? Roaming PVP in medium or small groups or even solo searching fights? pfft Mynx La'Rue i fell asleep reading your blah blah blah replies. Come and talk to me when your not flying in a fleet of 20-30 plus players constantly and discuss real pvp mate....all gank This is halarious, you dont give up do you ? Trying to somehow make a fight out of everything ? First of all, just quote ONE more sentence i wrote, let me do it for you. Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Roaming PVP in medium or small groups or even solo searching fights? It dosnt matter. Its EVE, you play your way and talks about who is 1337, l33ter and the l33test are just philosophical at best, ****ed most of the time. Pirates use the system to their advantage, they shouldnt cry if someone else uses it the same way. So nice you wanna try AGAIN to show some ppl are so amazing PVPers and everyone doing pvp otherwise is a carebear. First wrong, 2nd not the point. And on top of it ... Gatecamping single targets and warping out once local rises by more then 2 to a safespot is better pvp then something else i mentioned above ? Seriously ? But again, not thepoint. So just keep your attempts to make this thread a flamefeast for yourself. Originally by:** Lucas Quaan Posting of logs is prohibited under current forum rules, so you will have to take my word for it, but looking though my records of the night in question from the Amamake side, the shortest time interval observed between successive posting of the message "OSSG / AMAMAKE gate camped dont warp in (smartbombing)" was 31s and the longest 2m26s. The rest of the recorded conversation had a mix of participants, including persons of the gate camping persuasion, none of which, imho, could be said to be spamming either. Thanks for takign the time to check your logs m8, And yes, the above was the case, nice to have some other ppl whitnessed it.-
Rorschach Hunter Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:24:00 - [89] Originally by: Presidente Gallente Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 07/04/2011 12:08:14 Originally by: Rorschach Hunter Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Thanks for everyone who actually wrote something about this topic and his or her opinion, if you remote (remove?) the pirate folks psotings it gives not a 100% but definitely a clear tendency. So if you ignore everyone who is on the other side of the arguement, your conclusion is that most people agree with you. Freaking hilarious logic. Besides, I see half a dozen fairly neutral posters who are not pirates, saying what you were doing was "irritating", "annoying" and basically spamming. Maybe you should re-read your thread to see it's a much more even split of opinion than you claim. White Knight to Sin Bin, get over it. Then these thin-skinned, oversensitive "dozen fairly neutral posters" are really playing the wrong game. Eventually they should look for something "Unicorn Online" where is love, sweet music and local whisper in the air 24/7. Half a dozen. Sheesh, your reading is as good as the OP's logic. And I fail to see how the people who stated they just blocked or ignored somebody crusading loudly in Local are "playing the wrong game". Surely by doing that they are doing the exact thing you... sorry... Mynx are demanding the first place, deal with it themselves not get a GM involved.
Ezekeil Rage	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:29:00 - [90] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher The OP admits she was there for a long time, and that it was 'every 20 seconds' - the reality is (supported by others there) that it was probably a lot worse than that. As I said, the specific situation is immaterial to the topic. The occasion was merely the catalyst for the discussion of importance. Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Ergo my point - make a rule. The fact you can't is the exact point, you can't just decide to sidestep the argument because you can't Choosing to abstain from an action is not an indicator of an inability to do so, insinuating otherwise is disingenuous at best. But yes, people will find ways to work the system - writing policy needs to be a proactive endeavor. Originally by: Lady Go Diveher As a point of social interest, the very reason judges exist within a legal system is to assess, in effect, problem A against rules and conventions B & C. This is why the exact definition of crimes is not written in an ever increasing attempt to get it right, but is (in many countries) based on precedent and case law history.) There's also a distinct and clear separation of powers and jurisdiction (in many countries) between a judge and other forms of law enforcement. It is not the case here, and trying to draw a parallel fails due to vastly different structures. ------------------------------------------------------ Shadow-war - you should click this link
Jeet Kaya Gallente The Ouroboros Partnership	Posted - 2011.04.07 13:37:00 - [91] Im not sure if anyone mentioned this in any previous posts, but perhaps what you should have done is to Jettison a couple of Cans with : .WARNING!! DANGER!! WARNING!! DANGER!!. .Gatecamp on the other side of gate!! Jump through at your peril!!. Or something along those lines. That sucks that you were gagged for trying to warn others and actually fight back against the gatecamp. o7
Cone Filler Perkone	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:01:00 - [92] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 06/04/2011 07:39:11 So i went with the alt of a friend and my char on both sides, and when a new player jumnped into system i informed him that the gate was camped by smartbombing pirates. Some ppl headed the warning, others (amazingly) still jumped in and (not really surprisingly) died - natural selection i guess. But ofc the pirates missed some nice juicy kills (several freighters and industrtials, also a marauder and other stuff listened, thansk me in local or by mail and went the other way / avoided this gate. The reaction was as expected, first insults by the pirates and their alts, then they actualy made a ticket for spamming and ... voila ... a GM named Horse appeared and gaged the character warning about the gatecamp on the empire side. This made me ... wtf ? An immediately triggered talk with the GM lead to nothing substantional and i got no answer about the rules of gagging (tiomes, repetitions, ...). The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute ot two. There was no question about botting for i was at the computer and immediately responding (also talking in local to some folks on empire side) so stripped down a character was gagged (forbidden to write into local) because he was warning other ppl about the gatecamp whenever someone jumped in. Try to discuss it without flaming please, but i really wonder what you think about a) the action of the GM and b) if the "spamming" policy in this case was really fitting. Eve is so great because oft the freedom it gives players on all sides. GMs acting on behalf of one side or the other that way is not only disturbing but makes me worry quite a bit. fly dangerous, Mynx For you i would advise reading rule #16 in the ToS, but if you are unable to read it ill recap it for you "inappropriate use of any public channels within the game" e.i. you are not allowed to spam the samething over and over, also Local must not be used as a private intel channel and this is also why you have the option to create your own intel channels ohhh almost forgot : why do you even bother telling ppl about theese gatecamps? Most are afk anyway so they wont see you, unless YOU lost something to them this is almost always the case mad carebears yelling at others in local that this and this gate is camped
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:03:00 - [93] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher The OP admits she was there for a long time, and that it was 'every 20 seconds' - the reality is (supported by others there) that it was probably a lot worse than that. Actually no, obviously: Originally by: Lucas Quaan Posting of logs is prohibited under current forum rules, so you will have to take my word for it, but looking though my records of the night in question from the Amamake side, the shortest time interval observed between successive posting of the message "OSSG / AMAMAKE gate camped dont warp in (smartbombing)" was 31s and the longest 2m26s. The rest of the recorded conversation had a mix of participants, including persons of the gate camping persuasion, none of which, imho, could be said to be spamming either. Lucas Quaan was (among others who agreed to my mentioned timetable) there for quite some time obviously and made the work to parse his logs. Im sure if you want hell send them to you so we can put the question about that above aside. 31s fastests and 2m26s longest.
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:07:00 - [94] Originally by: Cone Filler ohhh almost forgot : why do you even bother telling ppl about theese gatecamps? Most are afk anyway so they wont see you, unless YOU lost something to them this is almost always the case mad carebears yelling at others in local that this and this gate is camped As i said in the first posting, i havnt. And when you go to the Heretic Army killboards you will see i didnt loose any ship to them for what, 6 month ? So no i wasnt some angry carebear but actually just a friendly soul who used some semi AFK time to warn ppl. Cant really see how this relevant though. This typical "turning around" of the situation dosnt apply here. Havnt lost anything, im home in LowSec, dont mission but PVP in my spare time in FW - again, not that it has anything do to with the sitauation.
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:27:00 - [95] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue And ofc if im again semiAFK and cant play actively for an hour or two cause of work ill move myself to Osgg / Ama gate again and do the same. Even if no ships would be saved (which was) its halarious to hear the pirates whine in local all the time. Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually **** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great. /thread
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:31:00 - [96] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Mynx La'Rue And ofc if im again semiAFK and cant play actively for an hour or two cause of work ill move myself to Osgg / Ama gate again and do the same. Even if no ships would be saved (which was) its halarious to hear the pirates whine in local all the time. Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually **** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great. /thread Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ?
Lady Go Diveher	Posted - 2011.04.07 14:39:00 - [97] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ? Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to **** off the pirates. 500 words or less, plz. Pictures optional
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.07 15:10:00 - [98] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ? Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to ** off the pirates. 500 words or less, plz. Pictures optional 500 words ? Are you kidding ;) ? I surely will try. so lets get my statement and your reaction. Originally by:** Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Mynx La'Rue And ofc if im again semiAFK and cant play actively for an hour or two cause of work ill move myself to Osgg / Ama gate again and do the same. Even if no ships would be saved (which was) its halarious to hear the pirates whine in local all the time. Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually ** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great./thread Now break it down without any room for interpretation: Me: Statement 1 : I will warn ppl again when the situation is the same. Statement 2 : Even if no ships are saved (goal), i will enjoy the whining of the pirates (bonus) - time well spend You then say: "Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to off the pirates." and "Right. So now even you admit that your intent is to spam local to actually ** off a group of players - that being the intent and 'saving ships' doesn't actually factor into it? Great." The reason i BEGAN with it was simple, caving ships from innocent ppl and hurting the gain (isk/h) of thepirates. Aside from the fact that i never said excusively (like you said i did), noone could know that some "hard and bloodthirsty" pirates began to cry and insult like little childs because they where faced with something they normally force on others. The irony in this situation should be obvious. Pirates do what they do (especialy gatecamps) because its a sure way to kill ppl who dont want to pvp and then, after getting the loot, enjoy their tears. Not only pirates, but ESPECIALLY pirates tend to apreciate the whining and tears more then the loot actually. Hearing exactly THAT from them when i began to warn ppl about the trap and after their scouts saw several ships turning around the amazing amound of crying (insults about me, my sexual preferences and the dog i dont have) and curses - which is EXACTLY what fuels PIRATES normally (so they should know better then doing it themselfs) was indeed satisfying. I didnt start with it cause of that (for i didnt expect pirates to be willingly walk into their own trap so to say) but it was definitely a bonus. To be clear, the pirates in Amamake are on the longer lever nearly all time. We tried over the last month dozends and dozends of times to bind them into a fight, but they just flee once a fleet reaches the numbers that could actually hurt them. With alts on every gate they are not surprisable. And if they dont want to fight, you cant force them. But you can make their live as hard as possible. As they are doing with everyone around them. That is surely fair game. Obviously ... cause it is the other way around. So ... me screwing their isk/h ratio and saving some ppl from losses was the main goal. Their unexpected whining the definite bonus.
Kelanoein Native Freshfood	Posted - 2011.04.10 00:29:00 - [99] I agree with the OP. It's a friendly warning in local, and does not qualify as spam. It's a game mechanic, just like the gatecamp. Pirates try to pod people, people try to save people from being podded. Pirates usually win anyway. They have the numbers, the bookmarks to safespots, and warp-in points, and do what they do best. Grief. Somebody enter's local and flies a beacon, or uses system wide communications to relay warnings to traveller's, and the pirates, predictably, report it as spam. It's not. It's counter-griefing. Call it role-playing, or whatever, but it has an intended purpose within the game. Spam does not. ________________________________________________ Character sale forum thread
Krullskull	Posted - 2011.04.10 01:02:00 - [100] Edited by: Krullskull on 10/04/2011 01:04:18 Quote from OP -post #1 "The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute to two." Quote from OP -post #18 "Your making it sound a bit to easy and also simplify it too much. a) I said i posted the warning into the channel whenever a new pilot came in, which was between min 20-30s and max once a minute or two." now here i see your changing your own fact to lessening your wrongs now i could post logs of the chat in system there and show how often you were posting but forum TOS says i can't but it was more of every 10-20 seconds you were "warning others" now don't get me wrong your cause was for the better and i applaud you for your effort but you did break the rules in doing right but just face the fact you broke the rules and got caught for a good cause just take your punishment and move on.
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.10 01:07:00 - [101] Originally by: Krullskull Edited by: Krullskull on 10/04/2011 01:04:18 Quote from OP -post #1 "The "Spamming" was writing the warning in local whenever someone new jumped in which went from once every 20-30s up to once a minute to two." Quote from OP -post #18 "Your making it sound a bit to easy and also simplify it too much. a) I said i posted the warning into the channel whenever a new pilot came in, which was between min 20-30s and max once a minute or two." now here i see your changing your own fact to lessening your wrongs now i could post logs of the chat in system there and show how often you were posting but forum TOS says i can't but it was more of every 10-20 seconds you were "warning others" now don't get me wrong your cause was for the better and i applaud you for your effort but you did break the rules in doing right but just face the fact you broke the rules and got caught for a good cause just take your punishment and move on. On the other hand, you could just waste less time on awesome formatting powers and more time on actually reading the thread. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
Sjofn Eirene	Posted - 2011.04.10 08:02:00 - [102] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Mynx La'Rue Sorry, are you just ... how shall i put it .. simple ? I can take some more time to try to explain it, maybe with little picture and cute animals if it helps ? Go for it. Explain how your use of the local channel is exclusively for the benefit of the people you're 'saving' and not, as you have stated, to **** off the pirates. 500 words or less, plz. Pictures optional Ooh, ooh, pick me pick me! I can do it in two. Counting? "Sand". "Box". How'd I do? Srs, do you really want to go down the avenue where doing things for the lulz/tears alone isn't an acceptable reason to do them? 'Cause, I think a few people here play the game for that reason alone. It's part of what makes it great. And it's the single most important part of making EVE not Hello Kitty Online. Also: no tears like griefbear tears.
Ra Jackson PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus	Posted - 2011.04.10 12:40:00 - [103] I love the amount of butthurt gatecamp "pirate" alts in this thread, complaining how someone destroys their game with the help of a chat channel, while they were only practicing their rightful profession of blowing haulers up, most probably 15on1. Go on! About gagging someone using local: This is ridiculous and beyond any discussion. GM should go to Jita and apply his very same rules, only then we can talk. By this very same rules we could have entire fleets gagged.
Jno Aubrey Galactic Patrol	Posted - 2011.04.10 13:54:00 - [104] Originally by: Cone Filler For you i would advise reading rule #16 in the ToS, but if you are unable to read it ill recap it for you "inappropriate use of any public channels within the game" e.i. you are not allowed to spam the samething over and over, also Local must not be used as a private intel channel and this is also why you have the option to create your own intel channels What is "inappropriate" about warning people of a gate camp? You fail at logical thinking while excelling at creative interpretation. You should be a GM. OP, I would strongly urge you to contact internal affairs about this. The GM may not be playing favorites, but there is a good chance he is either poorly trained or engaging in a power trip at the expense of the customer. __________________________________________________ Name a shrub after me; something prickly and hard to eradicate.
Meridith Akesia Stimulus	Posted - 2011.04.10 14:25:00 - [105] GM Horse Best Horse.
Todaki Epsilon	Posted - 2011.04.10 19:20:00 - [106] Edited by: Todaki Epsilon on 10/04/2011 19:21:08 EDIT: has been mentioend before, please ignore this post :p I'm replying here to the OP, i haven't read beyond page 1 :P Instead of putting a message out every so often (which is indeed spamming), why not put one or two cans near the gate stating "Beyond this is a gatecamp" ? Much easier IMHO.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Quantum Forge	Posted - 2011.04.10 20:30:00 - [107] If someone was warning you in local because of a good gate camp and you get gag then that GM is out of line... Oh and for the record GM Horse is a complete moron. He is one of the idiots that don;t have a clue what he is doing..... Why has CCP not fired this moron I don't know. I would make a complaint against GM Horse because he really doesn't know what he is doing. I have petitioned in the past and GM horse given me wrong information on some programs etc which a senior GM had to correct it..... Not spamming when sharing good intel.... period ------------------------------------
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.04.10 22:49:00 - [108] Originally by: Icer Xx Let's be honest, our GM's are scrubs that havn't registered on the game, let alone play the game. Comparing our GM to a competent manager of anything other than horse dung, is like comparing goonswarm to neurosurgeons. Actually, having worked on god knows how many Alliance and Fanfest tournaments with them I can safely say that you're very wrong. Most of the GM team still enjoy the game to no end and play regularly from what I gather. Common misconception by people who get whiny about GM decisions and don't have any other ammunition to fire at them. >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.04.10 22:52:00 - [109] Originally by: Mynx La'Rue OPh i forgot the promised picture : The Pirates gatecamping keyboard of glory : Damn, it's a long time since I've seen my early 2005 creations hit the forums I was so drunk when I made all of those >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Vandiilo Gallente Full Metal Jacket LLC	Posted - 2011.04.11 06:23:00 - [110] Local is for ASCII *****.es and other such nonsense. Please don't use it for anything useful.
Icylce Frost Palace	Posted - 2011.04.11 10:04:00 - [111] Originally by: Cone Filler For you i would advise reading rule #16 in the ToS, but if you are unable to read it ill recap it for you "inappropriate use of any public channels within the game" e.i. you are not allowed to spam the samething over and over, also Local must not be used as a private intel channel and this is also why you have the option to create your own intel channels This is just your interpretation of rules! OP if u really wish to investigate the gm and his action contact [email protected] as mentioned on page2. Also Lady Go Diveher= GM Horses alt? Neither of them do make sense from what I read
Ohh Yeah Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.04.11 14:49:00 - [112] GM Horse responded to my petition a few days ago. He told me my new antics weren't an exploit. P cool guy imp. Stop spamming local bro.
Mynx La'Rue Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2011.04.12 21:18:00 - [113] Edited by: Mynx La''Rue on 12/04/2011 21:21:48 I got an answer to me open ticket, the situation is escalated to the next level and ill be contacted afterewards. And for those who cant be asked to ead all postings above, just a quote from someone who whitnessed it. Originally by: Lucas Quaan Posting of logs is prohibited under current forum rules, so you will have to take my word for it, but looking though my records of the night in question from the Amamake side, the shortest time interval observed between successive posting of the message "OSSG / AMAMAKE gate camped dont warp in (smartbombing)" was 31s and the longest 2m26s. The rest of the recorded conversation had a mix of participants, including persons of the gate camping persuasion, none of which, imho, could be said to be spamming either.
Zen Sins	Posted - 2011.04.13 00:56:00 - [114] ACTUAL language of ToS #16 - You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. That's very very vague. But again, how do you define spam? Quick comment on Amamake pirates and their invincible web of intel... Um, no. The other day a friendly fleet took a shortcut through Amamake to rendezvous with our fleet for some righteous WT pie. Scout jumped in, managed to get pointed. Pirate count was 12 including T2s and T3s. Rest of fleet (8 T2s total) jumped in and from the Vent chatter it was clear that the pirates basically **ed on themselves trying to warp off. By the time they managed to get their s* together and realize they had the stronger fleet, friendly fleet moved on through as the pirates warped back to gate. No losses on either side, but, their disorganization, lack of intel, lack of ability to calculate odds was evident. Forget spam. Just jump a decently organized fleet in and push it in.
Panda Name Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.04.13 07:51:00 - [115] Originally by: Zen Sins ACTUAL language of ToS #16 - You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. That's very very vague. But again, how do you define spam? Quick comment on Amamake pirates and their invincible web of intel... Um, no. The other day a friendly fleet took a shortcut through Amamake to rendezvous with our fleet for some righteous WT pie. Scout jumped in, managed to get pointed. Pirate count was 12 including T2s and T3s. Rest of fleet (8 T2s total) jumped in and from the Vent chatter it was clear that the pirates basically **ed on themselves trying to warp off. By the time they managed to get their s* together and realize they had the stronger fleet, friendly fleet moved on through as the pirates warped back to gate. No losses on either side, but, their disorganization, lack of intel, lack of ability to calculate odds was evident. Forget spam. Just jump a decently organized fleet in and push it in. so you jumped in on them, and they warped off. you didn't catch any of them. sounds like your fleet was about as effective as OP's spam.
Meta Knite	Posted - 2011.04.13 11:23:00 - [116] Cans are not the most effective way to get people's attention. Normally they are just useless and outdated and most people have gotten used to not even reading or believing them. Mynx's approach to things if indeed as stated and the messages were written every 30sec-1min on average, I wouldn't consider it spam. Spam would be probably 5 second intervals with something useless or even if useful 5sec intervals would be just annoying. However half a minute to a minute, I don't see anything wrong with it.
Hans Crow	Posted - 2011.04.13 16:40:00 - [117] Originally by: Meta Knite Cans are not the most effective way to get people's attention. Normally they are just useless and outdated and most people have gotten used to not even reading or believing them. That could be easily solved by timestamping the can. (As of April 13, 2011 @ 18:45UTC, the other side will spell doom for haulers) If spamming local is against ToS, then we should definitely change this article: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Avoiding_pirates so that we don't encourage people to use chat channels. After all, the Evelopedia shouldn't encourage breaching the ToS! In fact, we should hunt down the author of that piece and ban him from the game for suggesting such a thing!
Jaik7	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:12:00 - [118] a possible way to keep from gewtting gagged and still warn people is to anchor a GSC as close to the gate as possible and naming it a warning. most will probably ignore it, however.
Zen Sins	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:35:00 - [119] Edited by: Zen Sins on 13/04/2011 19:38:15 Originally by: Panda Name Originally by: Zen Sins ACTUAL language of ToS #16 - You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. That's very very vague. But again, how do you define spam? Quick comment on Amamake pirates and their invincible web of intel... Um, no. The other day a friendly fleet took a shortcut through Amamake to rendezvous with our fleet for some righteous WT pie. Scout jumped in, managed to get pointed. Pirate count was 12 including T2s and T3s. Rest of fleet (8 T2s total) jumped in and from the Vent chatter it was clear that the pirates basically **ed on themselves trying to warp off. By the time they managed to get their s* together and realize they had the stronger fleet, friendly fleet moved on through as the pirates warped back to gate. No losses on either side, but, their disorganization, lack of intel, lack of ability to calculate odds was evident. Forget spam. Just jump a decently organized fleet in and push it in. so you jumped in on them, and they warped off. you didn't catch any of them. sounds like your fleet was about as effective as OP's spam. sigh 1) I wasn't there, as stated. So -I- didn't jump in on them. 2) The objective was to just pass through Amamake, not "catch" any of them, as stated. 3) As the friendly fleet did cut through Amamake as planned without losses, despite the larger gate camp, they were effective. It's all about the reading comprehension, ya know?
Mylor Torlone	Posted - 2011.04.13 20:03:00 - [120] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Icer Xx Let's be honest, our GM's are scrubs that havn't registered on the game, let alone play the game. Comparing our GM to a competent manager of anything other than horse dung, is like comparing goonswarm to neurosurgeons. Actually, having worked on god knows how many Alliance and Fanfest tournaments with them I can safely say that you're very wrong. Most of the GM team still enjoy the game to no end and play regularly from what I gather. Common misconception by people who get whiny about GM decisions and don't have any other ammunition to fire at them. Biased source is biased.
Zen Sins	Posted - 2011.04.14 17:47:00 - [121] Four pages of posts on spam gag is four pages too many.
JitaBUGz TheGreat	Posted - 2011.04.15 03:14:00 - [122] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 14:25:05 Originally by: Misunderstood Genius Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 13:00:12 Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/04/2011 12:56:11 Convo target and privatley warn them. If a pirate was to have his alt in highsec spamming "OMG GET INTO AMMAKE, THERE IS A SANSHA MOTHERSHIP IN HULL" every time a pilot jumped into the high sec system in an effort to tempt them into lowsec, he would be gagged in the same way you were gagged spamming in order to PREVENT people jumping into lowsec. So no favoratism... just Spamming is bad. SKUNK You losers are so creative in finding crap arguments. Your try would be comparable to SCAM because you are spamming bullsht in local to cheat players losing their stuff while warning about a gate camp is a real situation on the other side to keep players safe from an existing trap. But I doubt that ppl like you want or will understand the simple difference. "Back to hide in station when your guys log... kid!" Well firstly its not illegal to scam so thats your main point out the window. But the scenario i present can be expanded to cover your misgivings. 1) I can sit in a higsec system and warn of a non exsisting gate camp. DO NOT JUMP INTO ZINKON THERE IS A GATE CAMP THERE!!!!!! After a while, GM horse will come into system and gag me for spamming. This aids nobody and shows no favouritism as there was no gate camp in the first place. GM Horse simply stopped me spamming local.* 2) I can spot a faction rat in a belt in a camped low sec system, and pop next door into highsec and spam local with "THERE IS A FACTION RAT IN THE BELT NEXT DOOR!!!!". Pilots going into lowsec would be popped by the camp, but at no point was I lying about a faction rat. After a while GM horse will come into system and gag me for spamming. This actualy HINDERS the pirates and refutes the OPs agruments that the GMs are biased. GM Horse simply stopped me spamming local. 3) The OP sits in local and shouts THERE IS A CAMP NEXT DOOR every 45 seconds as new people arrive. After a while, GM horse arrives in local and gags him for spamming. This helped the pirates. GM Horse simply stopped him spamming local. In All Cases The Message In local was irrelevant. Who profitied from the spamming was irrelevant. The repetitive spamming WAS REVLEANT and resulted rightly in a gag SKUNK And what if, or what if. But maybe what if? If u can not see through the clear bias, then what if? And please, everyone. Dont use the word Pirate for anyone in that lowsec area. Good-Pirating takes skill, gate blob/ganking dose not. And no, there should have not been a gag on the OP with the information given. And clearly the petition was sent in from a ganker alt, talk about internet tought guys. They got all upset over that....lol
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2011.04.15 18:53:00 - [123] Isn't that what local is for? Isn't it an in-game mechanism for you to communicate relevant information about what's going on in the game to your fellow players? It makes absolutely no sense that someone should be gagged for warning other players about potential dangers of jumping into a system in local chat. And those of you defending the gag are being ridiculous--and I, when I did stuff besides change skills, was a pirate and have been for the 5 years I've been playing this game. My sig don't fracking work.
DeathStar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2011.04.15 20:40:00 - [124] Originally by: Karlemgne Isn't that what local is for? Isn't it an in-game mechanism for you to communicate relevant information about what's going on in the game to your fellow players? It makes absolutely no sense that someone should be gagged for warning other players about potential dangers of jumping into a system in local chat. And those of you defending the gag are being ridiculous--and I, when I did stuff besides change skills, was a pirate and have been for the 5 years I've been playing this game. You know i lub you Karl, but iv got to disagree with that statement, yes, fair play to warn ppl about gate camps.... but saying it every 5 sec's (copy paste) in local for each char that enters local, makeing local un-useable to other pilots in eve is kinda stupid... i dont know if that was the case or not, but if he was spamming local, then good on the GM's for makeing him stfu
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2011.04.15 22:49:00 - [125] Originally by: JitaBUGz TheGreat And what if, or what if. But maybe what if? If u can not see through the clear bias, then what if? And please, everyone. Dont use the word Pirate for anyone in that lowsec area. Good-Pirating takes skill, gate blob/ganking dose not. And no, there should have not been a gag on the OP with the information given. And clearly the petition was sent in from a ganker alt, talk about internet tought guys. They got all upset over that....lol Learn2Logic SKUNK (o)
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.04.16 02:34:00 - [126] tl;dr heretics run to mommy to get more kills and dumb carebears agree that a gag rule is a way better solution than clicking "block this user" for interrupting their in-depth conversations on highsec mining.
GeneralMartok Caldari Worst Pirates Ever	Posted - 2011.04.16 03:35:00 - [127] why weren't you smart enough to just convo them?
Khanya Trace	Posted - 2011.04.16 22:52:00 - [128] Edited by: Khanya Trace on 16/04/2011 22:52:45 the same message every 30 secs is spam, the message itself does not matter. if your holy crusade to save the clueless is so important, you could just convo them. Calling a GM out like this for doing his job is just lame.
Christ0ph3r	Posted - 2011.04.17 05:19:00 - [129] Originally by: Kitty McKitty words Dude, your neck...
Zen Sins	Posted - 2011.04.17 16:31:00 - [130] Originally by: Khanya Trace Calling a GM out like this for doing his job is just lame. It reminds me of apes throwing rocks at a 747 passing overhead. Do you think GM even knows about this thread? If so, do you think he cares? I would not. You're all beating a dead Horse.

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