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Unwanted attributes - A proposal

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Selim	Posted - 2005.02.07 05:33:00 - [1] I'm sure we all have the particular attribute that we don't want, as well as the one that we desperately need but are low on. The ones people generally don't want are charisma and to a lesser extent, willpower. Some may also not want memory. Now, I have a proposal: There should be some way in the game, perhaps by usage of a booster, that will take three (3) attribute points from your HIGHEST attribute, and move it to your lowest. This will prevent people with already high attributes that they want, and then moving 3 of the charisma points which they dont use to that. An example would be a combat brutor with extraordinarily high perception, who then moves 3 charisma to the perception, furthering his lead over the lower-perception characters. Its mainly to help those people who chose the wrong attributes for their chosen career. What could be done, is say, an intaki (which have the lowest perception in game) could move 3 of his highest attribute (could be any for an intaki actually), to perception. I also propose a second idea in conjunction with the first: Some means ingame to convert your charisma points - 10 into all the other attributes. Lets say a character has 16 charisma. Using this means, he would essentially turn 6 charisma points into the other attributes. Why 6? Because 16 minus 10 equals six, silly. Obviously you couldn't stack them all onto one attribute, as this would clearly benefit the Gallente, especially those with added charisma. So some system to divide them could be divised. Why this? Because charisma sucks, thats why. An ingame explanation of why you would convert charisma rather than a different one could be that you are converting the portion of your brain that deals with social dealings into a more desirable function. I know for one I'd go for both of these things. Of course, both would be one-time only. As far as the second one, yes, training empathy and such would essentially give you more memory/perc/int/will. Seriously, this needs to be done. I'm a combat pilot, but with my horrible perception its really making life difficult.
Core Bash	Posted - 2005.02.07 06:07:00 - [2] Personally, I propose that once a year (or possibly once every six months) CCP should let us shift around two or three of our attribute points. The change would be permanent until the next time CCP let us change them again. In reality there's no real diversity in EVE. A Minmatar can train for a Megathron just as efficiently as he/she can train for a Tempest. So why must our role as a fighter or researcher remain static? á
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.07 06:56:00 - [3] I just think it's plain stupid that the most important decision you make in EVE is made on your first day. I've been paying for it since, go go willpower for combat I'm tired of saying it tbh. They need to let people re-assign base attributes after 3-6 months of playing, you know, when you figure out what you want your character to specialize in. Perception is my god, and its my 3rd lowest attribute. GJ CCP Do they even check out this forum? ________________________________________________________
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.07 07:12:00 - [4] Edited by: Selim on 07/02/2005 07:13:13 Edited by: Selim on 07/02/2005 07:12:05 Well it is my absolute lowest. But the thing is, I want to prevent people with already the highest perception etc from getting it even higher, because they already have the edge. Which is why I proposed the highest to lowest bit. Because really, a Brutor with 35 or so perception would be crazy, same with a Civire. It would totally defeat the purpose, because they would still train combat skills faster than everyone else. Basically, people with high int cant increase their int by doing this, high perc cant increase that, etc etc. Its only to increase your lowest or second lowest or so. But I agree, its silly that I for instance, with my base of 3(!!!) perception, must suck at training combat skills for the rest of my career. I want to be as good as a brutor at it, but I should have to pay a bit of isk for the service. Its simple. I don't think they read it. Maybe someone should plug this thread in the ideas forum. Or general disc.
Kyroki Tirpellan	Posted - 2005.02.07 08:39:00 - [5] Man, am I the only one who's actually happy with his stats? Well I guess it's cause I played Beta and knew what I was doing when I made the character... Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower. Real men structure tank!
Calleb	Posted - 2005.02.07 11:36:00 - [6] I too am happy with my stats. But i have had an idea for those who got their character creation wrong. What about a skill - high level, that lets you change 1 point of attribute per level. I think High level would be better than high requirements as i guess this problem applies to players with low skill points so less individual skills. That way everyone would not be able to keep changing their attributes to suit the current skill, but this would allow any real mistakes during character creation to be put right.
NEvara	Posted - 2005.02.08 14:34:00 - [7] Personally i thing this sitiuation will be solved when drgs came out in game which increases your attribute in extent 2 another 1.
Kayinan Malrean	Posted - 2005.02.08 15:02:00 - [8] My Willpower ended up as my highest attribute. Do I mind? Do I feel like a gimp? Do I enjoy playing less because of it? Mmm.. No. My Int, Perc and Mem in turn are pretty balanced, and I am sincerely happy that I started with an uber Charisma of 3. With my Willpower being highest, do I feel like I couldn't train Science or Industry if I wanted to? Would that make a gimp? Should I feel embarassed because I'd like it better than having rolled a Int/Mem-twinked Science alt on a second account? Lemme think.. No. Just get over it. When you're bored and want to whine about something, could you please think of something more imaginative?
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.08 22:24:00 - [9] Originally by: NEvara Personally i thing this sitiuation will be solved when drgs came out in game which increases your attribute in extent 2 another 1. But that would make the people with already high perc/int increase their edge over those who made a poor choice at the character selection screen. Its too late to make charisma and willpower useful, and memory isn't very useful for combat except drones. So why not help the people that made the wrong choice?
Dred 'Morte	Posted - 2005.02.08 23:17:00 - [10] i like combat and i have 27 perception atm so im happy, however iv noticed that the maximun possible within current game limits i can i have is 29-30 . A bit too much for me already...

Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.08 23:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Kayinan Malrean My Willpower ended up as my highest attribute. Do I mind? Do I feel like a gimp? Do I enjoy playing less because of it? Mmm.. No. My Int, Perc and Mem in turn are pretty balanced, and I am sincerely happy that I started with an uber Charisma of 3. With my Willpower being highest, do I feel like I couldn't train Science or Industry if I wanted to? Would that make a gimp? Should I feel embarassed because I'd like it better than having rolled a Int/Mem-twinked Science alt on a second account? Lemme think.. No. Just get over it. When you're bored and want to whine about something, could you please think of something more imaginative? Why the hell should i or anyone else here care about how much you enjoy eve because you are not bothered by your attributes? Hint, nobody gives a ** what you think. I was told willpower was the combat attribute, i picked lots of willpower, willpower is not the primary combat attribute. How the is that ok , all i do is combat and i have **ty perception, the true combat attribute. gg ________________________________________________________
Bosie	Posted - 2005.02.09 04:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Kayinan Malrean My Willpower ended up as my highest attribute. Do I mind? Do I feel like a gimp? Do I enjoy playing less because of it? Mmm.. No. My Int, Perc and Mem in turn are pretty balanced, and I am sincerely happy that I started with an uber Charisma of 3. With my Willpower being highest, do I feel like I couldn't train Science or Industry if I wanted to? Would that make a gimp? Should I feel embarassed because I'd like it better than having rolled a Int/Mem-twinked Science alt on a second account? Lemme think.. No. Just get over it. When you're bored and want to whine about something, could you please think of something more imaginative? Why the hell should i or anyone else here care about how much you enjoy eve because you are not bothered by your attributes? Hint, nobody gives a ** what you think. I was told willpower was the combat attribute, i picked lots of willpower, willpower is not the primary combat attribute. How the is that ok , all i do is combat and i have ty perception, the true combat attribute. gg Guess it sucks to be you. Well I am happy with my BALANCED attributes which I picked unlike you with your shortsighted narrow powerplaying attitude. Deal with it or leave. Why the hell should I or anyone else here care about how much you are bothered by your attributes? Hint, nobody gives a ** what you think. Bosie. http://bosie.proboards40.com/ http://zeroimpact.co.uk/evemap
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.09 06:44:00 - [13] Maybe thats because you're civire, who are the best overall for intelligence and perc. I don't see why people who made a wrong choice at the first day of playing a new game should not be able to narrow the gap between themselves and a player with dedicated high perc/int. The only reason why someone like you would not want that, is because you are selfish and want everyone else to have sucky training times while you or anyone else who has high perc and intelligence will storm ahead of the rest.
Tomas Nuerin	Posted - 2005.02.09 07:19:00 - [14] I22/P19/C22/W23/M22 I'm quite happy with my attributes. Though I'm carebear industry/science agent runner. It is true, that you are making kinda big choises in a very first minutes of your play. I did bad choises too but after couple of days playing (learning about game) I started new character. There could be some option for moving attributes. Maybe 2 point transfer every 4 months or so? Or maybe 3-4 points transfer one time? I'd move three points once with pleasure... -- You cannot activate your microwarpdrive because natural phenomena are disrupting the warp.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.02.09 10:52:00 - [15] I need more perc and willpower thx to my attributes I lost about 5mio SP I could have 16perc and 15 willpower just sucks Wanna fly with me?
Kellyl	Posted - 2005.02.09 14:52:00 - [16] Well, Star wars galaxies has a stat migration function, with which you could shift your attributes around... It took quite a while to shift your atts, but they shifted. Maybe EvE could implement such a function, so that you choose to transfer say 2 charisma to 2 perception. You then have to wait for 1 month (The time could be worked out to be balanced etc) per point as your charecter "learns" the new attributes.
Jonas Bane	Posted - 2005.02.09 16:07:00 - [17] The downside to this is that it makes it easier for players to excel in multiple fields. Suppose I built my character with high intelligence and memory. Trained up lots of industry and science skills, maxed out learning, and knocked out engineering and electronics. Then I decide I want to get into PVP and combat. I could "migrate" my stats into Perception and Willpower. So not only can I "master" building and research, but with a little work and time I can speed my training through combat skills as well. Obviously something has gone wrong here. I maxed out building and learning with the benefit of high intelligence and memory. Then after I finished that skill tree, could readjust my attributes to speed through another skill tree. I agree that new players are kinda shafted in that they make a number of key decisions without any real means to evaluate their choices. Perhaps a better method would be to start new characters with stock racial and school attributes. Then every week for three weeks can assign one of their "bonus" attribute points. That way, they'll have a better feel for the skills they want to train and the gamestyle they want to adapt, and can tailor their attributes as they "grow up."
Histracko	Posted - 2005.02.10 19:58:00 - [18] while i am mostly happy with my attributes i understand the angle this thread is coming from. my highest attribute is willpower, now this isn't all bad, but my main focus for this char is industry. willpower is not the primary attribute for any of the industry skills, its not even the secondary skill. i think that first off CCP should make something during the orientation that tells you what the diffrent attributes mean, before you pick them, or tell you during the tutorial so you can make a new char if your set up isn't the way you want. Also, Meridius has the right idea, after playing for a few months a player has a fair idea of the direction they want to go with a char and should be allowed to adjust accordingly. that way if you decided on your first day to make a combat char and now you want to do a production/research char, you wouldn't have to start all over. i love the way this game is designed, but making your most important decision on the first day is not a good way to set up anything. --------------------------- !!Bookmarking Master!! If you need a route or system bookmarked just EVE-mail or convo me and we'll work something out
Question2	Posted - 2005.02.11 02:10:00 - [19] Yep new players need a better understanding. Btw......guess what.....CCP will never add in anything near ability to reset stats.Why? Simple.If you choose wrong stats,you have to start over.Starting over = more time spent on game.Which directly benefits CCP.
Falbala	Posted - 2005.02.11 02:33:00 - [20] Your theory is completely false. I have started the game with 4 memory and I paid the hard price for it. The result was: 1) I bought another account so yes it is good cash for CCP but I think I would have done it anyway. 2) I have stopped playing once two monthes and another time six or seven monthes just because I was fed up of my crappy attributes. In fact the second time I was about to stop definitely but I have seen that the trade skills were in so I gave it another chance. I like your idea Selim.

Question2	Posted - 2005.02.11 04:21:00 - [21] If only 1 person started over because of their attributes were messed up at start,this gives them more reason not to add a way to reset stats.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.02.11 21:07:00 - [22] WTB: One time only, irreversible, brain operation. Allow us to move our BASE stats around, but never less than 6 in any one category. I will pay 1bn isk for this operation. Thanks in advance, CCP.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.11 23:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Dianabolic WTB: One time only, irreversible, brain operation. Allow us to move our BASE stats around, but never less than 6 in any one category. I will pay 1bn isk for this operation. Thanks in advance, CCP. I would pay to but we shouldn't have to imo. All chars should be given the option to shift base attribs once after a few months of playing. The idea that a person knows exactly what they want to do in a game they have never played before is freaking ridiculous, no? Once you have found your true calling you should be able to shift attribs in that direction. ________________________________________________________
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.12 01:38:00 - [24] Besides, if you practice alot with something, you get better at it, and if you ignore it, you lose your abilities.
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.02.13 10:25:00 - [25] yea, i wish i could move some of my stats around. Would just make the game that much more fun if I didn't regret my stats every time i looked at them. What about a 1 time fee of $10? much like char transfer, face change, etc.. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Amaron Ghant	Posted - 2005.02.13 11:36:00 - [26] What you actually mean is that your attributes suck because you can't train as fast as you want to? A phrase springs to mind, one that my first seargent kept on beating me round the head with everytime I complained that something was either wrong or not fair. "Lifes hard and then you die" Yes there should be more information on what attribute affects what skill, but there isn't so deal with it. I created my current character as a researcher, and as we all know thats more a hit or miss occupation than any of the others, so now that I'm running agent missions my wisdom and perc REALLY suck. My opinion, leave attributes alone. Yours suck for combat, create an alt. Take the time hit or find another game where waggling the joystick for 12 hours a day will increase the size of your manhood and make you uber over all. Oh and charisma only sucks if all you want to do is gank,pirate or just generally screw around with other peoples game experience. Not that i'm saying those occupations are wrong you understand, just generally antisocial outside of your own clicque. Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!! Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner
Tuco Benedito	Posted - 2005.02.14 03:07:00 - [27] Oh I dunno, the point is, it doesn't give you a chance to decide what path you really want to take. It may SEEM to, but we all know that character creation descriptions and how it describes things are less the exact. In fact, they are quite ambiguous. You don't really know what the hell you need for what when you're creating a character. For that matter, stats might as well be completely random for all you care. The point is, after playing the game for 3+ months, a person only then really has a concept of what they'd like their stats to be. When I first started, I thought int and mem were like the be all to end all stats. I never really understood how stats even worked in the first place, though. Because of that my perception is silly low and now perception is the ONE attribute I absolutely give a crap about. Makes me kind of fully understand why games like Everquest made attributes basically useless. No one ends up feeling shafted a year after their character was created just because they didn't know that Dex and Agil really WEREN'T the best for rogues. And of course all of those people, who got lucky and picked stats that eventually ended up being what they really wanted, they don't want any way for people to change. In a competitive game, like eve, that only makes sense. The "haves", don't want the "have nots", to have. Otherwise, they wouldn't be special by having. Why would the guy with the 25 perception want a way for those with a base 5 perception, to be able to rectify their mistakes? And of course, I'd throw money at this problem, like most people would. Would it ever come to that? I doubt it. The only real viable option I see, which is just lame, is to buy a character with similar sp total as yours, with the stats you'd actually like to have. Going outside the box to fix a problem I wish never existed.
Hepatitis	Posted - 2005.02.14 03:20:00 - [28] yes when i first joined i didnt know what everything meant, and now im stuck with low attributes even with advanced learning skills to lvl 4. ----------------------------------------- I am a forumaholic.
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2005.02.14 09:45:00 - [29] I'd love to move some cha into perc, probably like 90% of eve wants to. ccp, make it a one-time thing for every character older than 6 months, or as it reaches 6 months. ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
MrMorph	Posted - 2005.02.14 17:55:00 - [30] I just LOVE the way CCPs char creator works. Choose fighter as starting, and it will wack on a **load of charisma points. Really ***** nice, espesially when yr a noob, not even knowing how insanly this will gimp you later on in the game. Or you can choose to be a trader, wheras u will be handed a handfull of willpower, wich is so usless in trades its sick. ---------------------------------------------- Trishys cookies they are !

Macel	Posted - 2005.02.21 20:50:00 - [31] Should also add that at the higher end, stats provide diminishing returns. With advanced learning skills and +3/4 implants (5 points for advanced skills, 5 for regular ones, 3-4 for implants that's 13-14 additional points for each stat) you can get pretty much any skill up to a level thats good enough to train things in reasonable time. the improvement from 19-20 is a heckuva lot less than it is from 9-10
Bosie	Posted - 2005.02.22 02:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Selim Maybe thats because you're civire, who are the best overall for intelligence and perc. I don't see why people who made a wrong choice at the first day of playing a new game should not be able to narrow the gap between themselves and a player with dedicated high perc/int. The only reason why someone like you would not want that, is because you are selfish and want everyone else to have sucky training times while you or anyone else who has high perc and intelligence will storm ahead of the rest. Int - 20 Perc - 24 Chr - 15 Will - 23 Mem - 15 They are my stats, I had the same choices as you when I started Eve. But guess what I did, I looked into the game to see what I would like to do. I decided that I wanted to be an escort pilot so I looked into what race and stats would help be best accomplish this. As you can see from above charisma was not high on my list! Now I have been agent running for a while (combat and research) have I once posted about my crap attributes for the skills I need to do them, no. Deal with it. Bosie. http://bosie.proboards40.com/ http://zeroimpact.co.uk/evemap
Tomas Nuerin	Posted - 2005.02.22 07:05:00 - [33] Quote: CCP understands that late on in the game you might start to regret the original choices you made with regards to your character portrait. This is why the portrait swapping is supported and the surest way of preventing identity hopping is to have real monetary transactions behind each portrait swap. They understand us regretting our original choises about portrait. How about us regretting our choises about attributes? Would be good idea if anyone could change attributes ONCE after few months of play. Not so much but little. Maybe 3-5 points total and maximum 2-3 points per attribute. I could pay that 10$ for this option... -- You cannot activate your microwarpdrive because natural phenomena are disrupting the warp.
Synthemesc	Posted - 2005.02.22 11:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Bosie Now I have been agent running for a while (combat and research) have I once posted about my crap attributes for the skills I need to do them, no. Because your attributes aren't crap. Science needs int and social only has 4 skills to train. Forgive me if I don't buy into your 'suffering in silence' posture
4 LOM	Posted - 2005.02.22 12:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Kyroki Tirpellan Man, am I the only one who's actually happy with his stats? Well I guess it's cause I played Beta and knew what I was doing when I made the character... nope i like mine... i started with a nice balance of each stat, except chrisma since my theory was that it sounded stupid lol. and since i like to do a bit of everything i am very happy, dont think i would change anything if i could... i just got lucky i guess lol
meowcat	Posted - 2005.02.22 15:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Meridius I just think it's plain stupid that the most important decision you make in EVE is made on your first day. what he said. i started playing on a 10 day trial, and created my character without paying attention at all. Frankly i had no intention of playing a game which had a monthly fee, and was merely curious to see what it was like. I accepted the first default character portrait, and clicked everything else at ramndom. I put 2 points onto charisma, and have a PvP character whose lowest attribute is perception. The second most annoying thing about EVE. ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.02.23 14:19:00 - [37] Originally by: Meridius I just think it's plain stupid that the most important decision you make in EVE is made on your first day. I've been paying for it since, go go willpower for combat I'm tired of saying it tbh. They need to let people re-assign base attributes after 3-6 months of playing, you know, when you figure out what you want your character to specialize in. Perception is my god, and its my 3rd lowest attribute. GJ CCP Do they even check out this forum? This is a very good idea. On character creation you make two of your most important chioces, actually: Portrait/name and attributes. Even though I had no deeper knowledge of what, exactly, Ithildin was a good choice (yeah, elf-lover who's not bothered to read Tolkien ^^). It's got all important aspects: people remember it, it's to do with stars and moonds, and noone can pronounce it. Anyway. My first portrait was about as bad as you could make an Intaki. Remember that bug where the light effects were turned off when you generated a portrait? Didn't make any difference on my first portrait: it was brown and dark to begin with. CCP let me fix that for a few Euroes. My second mistake was to make a character meant to be a scientist (aka carebear). Yes, I've been training Gunnery for more than half a year now. Luckily I DID put one or two points into perception, so I actually CAN get to 19 if I train advanced learning another level. To let me move a few points of memory and charisma to perception would take me a long way to the role I try to roleplay. It would make me feel slightly more comfortable in my claim to be a combat pilot, knowing I have the attributes to go with the claim. P.S. Memory has extremely few skills of value as primary attribute. Skill of value = a skill who more than 20% of an avarage corporation trains to levels higher than 3. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Ecliptical	Posted - 2005.02.24 17:38:00 - [38] I would much rather have a balanced attribute layout vice a all out Percp and Will layout, Combat is NOT just Gun skills, its also Elect, Engineer, Mechanic and Navigation .. if you look they (except for Nav) dont even include WILL or Percep so in the end it all evens out (kinda), the amount of time saved training gun by a pilot with HIGH Percept/Will will then slow down by bring up the rest of the skills like Engi, Elect, Mech and Nav. Example: i have a character (alt) with 26Will and 30Percep however, as fast as i can traing Gun and Ship i slow down HUGE in the rest of the combat skill that make a good pilot in both PvP and PvE. just my .02ISK "They call me WitchDoctor Lifter of CURSE's"
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.25 07:58:00 - [39] Well, still, its only Int and Perc that are worth much. And even Int is behind a bit, since there are no advanced engineering/electronics skills to train.
Bellac	Posted - 2005.02.25 08:31:00 - [40] Well - this seems a hot subject. I was just wondering if there has ever been any official word on this subject. I have a friend who has just come back to eve after some time away and he has decided to start a new character because his stats on his old character where so bad. if there is an offical line on this subject then maybe he should stick things though with his old character until stat changing becomes an option

Selim	Posted - 2005.02.26 17:44:00 - [41] I don't have a single attribute that is 20 or over without implants, I would need a +4 to get 20 perc. A +2 for everything else except memory. I think that is pathetic, people seem to have more attributes total than I do even without implants.
Fenian	Posted - 2005.02.26 18:27:00 - [42] Vegeta has +3 all implants aside from charisma 18 Intelligence (Adv. Learn 4) 24 Perception (Adv. Learn 5) 11 Charisma (Regular learning 3) 27 Willpower (Adv. Learn 5) 19 Memory (Adv. Learn 4) Fenian has All Adv. learning 5, +4 charisma and +3 all other implants. 28 Intelligence 20 Perception 22 Charisma 19 Willpower 24 Memory I'm pretty happy, I regret that one or two points that went into Charisma on Vegeta in the beginning though, I had no idea what I was doing :(.
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.02.26 19:21:00 - [43] Edited by: Sangxianc on 26/02/2005 19:22:06 Your stats: Int: 18-9-3 = 6 Per: 24-10-3 = 11 Cha: 11-3 = 8 Wil: 27-10-3 = 14 Mem: 19-9-3 = 7 6+11+8+14+7 = 46 base attribute points My stats: I have all Adv. Learning skills to 4 except charisma (which is base learning 2). I also a +3 willpower implant and a +3 perception implant. Int: 16-9 = 7 Per: 23-9-3 = 11 Cha: 0-2 = 8 Wil: 20-3-9 = 8 Mem: 18-9 = 9 7+11+8+8+9 = 43 base attribute points. Why do you get 3 more points than me? Your other one has 47 base skillpoints. - Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.26 21:12:00 - [44] Yep, some people have more attribute points than others for some reason. And by that I mean if they all had same skills + implants. Its really ****ty, especially when they have more perc and int than you.
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.02.26 23:09:00 - [45] That's pretty ****** up. - Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
Synthemesc	Posted - 2005.02.27 04:29:00 - [46] Edited by: Synthemesc on 27/02/2005 04:49:27 Edited by: Synthemesc on 27/02/2005 04:44:54 You aren't taking Learning 5 into account, it adds 10% after implants and other learnings skills are added. If you have 11 in a stat you'll have 22 in it with advanced learning 4 and learning 5. If you have 9 in it you'll have 19 with the same skills. So it can make a huge difference. Because of this I'm seriously tempted to just start over again and write off these past few months as a learning process. Vegeta's Base Stats 5 Intelligence 9 Perception 7 Charisma 12 Willpower 6 Memory Total 39 edit: got numbers wrong first time and spelling second, I need sleep
Novarei	Posted - 2005.02.27 12:18:00 - [47] 26 Intel 21 Perception 10 Charisma 19 Willpower 20 Memory And I still have a little way to go yet on the adv learning skills. Still pretty happy with mine alltogether. Charisma still needs work :) +--------------------------------------------+
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.27 23:03:00 - [48] Is it just me or do all the Caldari players, especially Deteis have the best attributes and ancestry availability for the best combo of perception and intel, the obvious two best attributes?
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.02.28 18:18:00 - [49] I have learning 4, so there's a 2% difference between him and me. 46 x 0.98 = 45.08 He still has 2 more attribute points than me. - Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
Synthemesc	Posted - 2005.02.28 22:38:00 - [50] Originally by: Selim Is it just me or do all the Caldari players, especially Deteis have the best attributes and ancestry availability for the best combo of perception and intel, the obvious two best attributes? Sebiestor Rebel is best for that imo, because they can get higher perception than Deteis. I've been thinking about it alot recently and if I did start again I'd probably go for a Sebiestor Rebel with 11 per 8 int 7 mem 7 wis, or 10 per 9 int. I'd rather have perception higher than intelligence because of the many high rank skills in gunnery and spaceship command. Most int primary skills a combat character will train to 4/5 are rank 1-3, apart from a couple of navigation skills. The new EW skills could change that though. Originally by: Sangxianc I have learning 4, so there's a 2% difference between him and me. 46 x 0.98 = 45.08 He still has 2 more attribute points than me. I worked out your base stats to a total of 36, I could be wrong but as far as I can tell you didn't use your all your 5 attribute points at character creation. Everyone's base stats should add up to 39.

Larno	Posted - 2005.02.28 22:53:00 - [51] Noone has any more or less attributes than anyone else. Here's what you are seeing. Player X has a BASE perception of 8. He has Learning V, Spatial Awareness V and Clarity IV. He also has a +3 implant Here is how his attribute is calculated: (8 + 5 + 4 + 3) * 1.1 = 22 Player Y has a BASE perception of 7. He has Learning V, Spatial Awareness V and Clarity IV. He also has a +3 implant Here is how his attribute is calculated: (7 + 5 + 4 + 3) * 1.1 = 20.9 (rounded to 20) This appears that Player X has 2 extra attribute points that Player Y, but he only has 1 extra point (1.1 because of learning skill). This is the same reason that you will never find someone with 21 in an attribute if they have Learning V.
Synthemesc	Posted - 2005.03.01 01:30:00 - [52] Larno explains it waaay better than me
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.03.01 22:11:00 - [53] Thanks, Larno. It all works out now. - Any man's death diminishes me, as I am involved in mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
Odet	Posted - 2005.03.01 23:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Meridius I just think it's plain stupid that the most important decision you make in EVE is made on your first day. WORD. =This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.=
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.06 06:57:00 - [55] Devs please respond to this thread and do something about this so I can actually train skills at a decent speed. Right now I'm pitiful at combat skills, only average at electronics and whatever, and I still seem to have less attributes total even with learning factored in. Let characters with high charisma focus it into something else... do something else, just do something. I'm quite sick of training 50% slower than everyone else. How about making memory not the super carebear attribute, too? I have lots of memory and its only useful for drones and industry. Yay, I can become a dominix miner. The only good attributes in this game are intelligence and perception, and willpower is of some use for combat, but everything else sucks. I can't even get those three above 20 with +3 implants. Good job on making the intaki crap at anything except agent whoring and mining.
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2005.03.06 15:13:00 - [56] I got lucky and had a 3 month old player tell me what a dumbass noob I was after about 20 minutes in the game so I deleted that character and made this one. Having said that when I created this character it was more of a "balace" so I have way more charisma than I'd ever want. I would honestly trade 8 charisma for +1 to all my other attribs and I'd trade 2 willpower for another perception. Anyway, I like the idea of being able to move say 1 point per attribute every 3-6 months. ------------------------------ <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Sorja	Posted - 2005.03.07 03:15:00 - [57] Halve training time by 2, problem solved. It's ridiculous how long it takes to build a character up, and only for one race. If we get 1 point per second now, give 2 points and all will be well. Customers don't stay longer because it takes longer to build a character, that is false, and many companies (amongst the most successfull) have increased the rate at which players gain levels (or skill points, it's more of the same).
hylleX	Posted - 2005.03.07 11:02:00 - [58] WTT memory -> Perception. I am combat 100% and prec is my second lowest so if i got to trade some points i would be happy.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.07 20:28:00 - [59] For **** sakes, does CCP even read this forum? I don't think i've ever seen a dev response anywhere here. Someone take off the cloak ________________________________________________________
Jim'ard Stone	Posted - 2005.03.07 20:38:00 - [60] Originally by: Synthemesc Edited by: Synthemesc on 27/02/2005 04:49:27 Edited by: Synthemesc on 27/02/2005 04:44:54 You aren't taking Learning 5 into account, it adds 10% after implants and other learnings skills are added. If you have 11 in a stat you'll have 22 in it with advanced learning 4 and learning 5. If you have 9 in it you'll have 19 with the same skills. So it can make a huge difference. Because of this I'm seriously tempted to just start over again and write off these past few months as a learning process. Vegeta's Base Stats 5 Intelligence 9 Perception 7 Charisma 12 Willpower 6 Memory Total 39 edit: got numbers wrong first time and spelling second, I need sleep bs you were just showing off but u got caught out.

Selim	Posted - 2005.03.08 07:01:00 - [61] Originally by: Meridius For **** sakes, does CCP even read this forum? I don't think i've ever seen a dev response anywhere here. Someone take off the cloak Indeed
magickangaroo	Posted - 2005.03.09 02:54:00 - [62] Originally by: Question2 Simple.If you choose wrong stats,you have to start over.Starting over = more time spent on game.Which directly benefits CCP. no what it leads to is people getting peeved off cos theyre forced to make a rediculous decision when they dont know about the game mechainics.. then they think sod that why would i give my real money to a company that dont care, and then leave eve altogether. or stay with the stats they got and complain :) would be great if the descriptions on the characters were more revealing but i think every 6 months people should be alowed to shift 2 or 3 of there base stats to something they want.
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.09 14:33:00 - [63] Edited by: Selim on 09/03/2005 14:33:20 But there needs to be some sort of maximum amount you can have in one category, otherwise all the brutors, for example, would send everything to perception and train battleship 5 in 2 weeks. This is the problem because right now there is no way for people with crappy intelligence and perception, like myself, to catch up in attributes. I think its absurd that nobody ever reads this forum, this is the ONE thing I hate the most about EVE. I chose the absolute WORST race in EVE for fighting. I have +2 charisma from my race's base charisma of 6. Lots of memory, which is useless. I'd only have 21 intelligence with a +3, too. Thats average. Don't even talk to me about my perception. I'd gladly sell everything I have just to pay for a brain surgery that would give me some decent attributes. I'd even pay real money. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.10 17:12:00 - [64] We really need a reply on this from the devs. ________________________________________________________
DarkStar251	Posted - 2005.03.11 02:07:00 - [65] Signed.... devs are maybe hiding from us? lol....
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.03.11 02:22:00 - [66] Start over or just deal with it. "You're already who you are before you even get here". -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
Sadist	Posted - 2005.03.11 04:29:00 - [67] Edited by: Sadist on 11/03/2005 04:29:56 There is a way to change your sucky attributes...want a hint? There's even 3! You can boost any of your attributes in this game by 14 points, which is more than you have in the beginning in ANY given attribute. That way you can get a 17 in even the lowest attribute. The formula is learning + adv. learning + implant(+4). So...seriously...stop yer whining, it looks even more pathetic coming from a guy who probably has more than 10 mil SP... I was thinking about the attribute system and figured out how FLEXIBLE it was, it really is, except maybe to those people who played Diablo and other hack&slash rubbish. _______________________________________________
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.11 11:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Sadist Edited by: Sadist on 11/03/2005 04:29:56 There is a way to change your sucky attributes...want a hint? There's even 3! You can boost any of your attributes in this game by 14 points, which is more than you have in the beginning in ANY given attribute. That way you can get a 17 in even the lowest attribute. The formula is learning + adv. learning + implant(+4). So...seriously...stop yer whining, it looks even more pathetic coming from a guy who probably has more than 10 mil SP... I was thinking about the attribute system and figured out how FLEXIBLE it was, it really is, except maybe to those people who played Diablo and other hack&slash rubbish.
Kaeten	Posted - 2005.03.11 12:07:00 - [69] Edited by: Kaeten on 11/03/2005 12:08:25 Originally by: Meridius I just think it's plain stupid that the most important decision you make in EVE is made on your first day. They need to let people re-assign base attributes after 3-6 months of playing, you know, when you figure out what you want your character to specialize in. GJ CCP totally agree, I think its stupid that the most important deision is made on the first day. Now i started with 12 charimsa and its killing me... ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.11 21:04:00 - [70] Originally by: Roy Focker Start over or just deal with it. "You're already who you are before you even get here". "deal with it" is an excuse for not being able to argue your point. So is "whining". Instead of explaining why the system works and pointing out how it is not horribly broke you say "deal with it" and move along like you've actually made a difference. If you have to "deal with" stuff in a game, somebody **** up. "deal with it", you can justify anything with that. Oh i logged in and all my isk + ships + SP is gone for no reason. Can i join you in your happy land of "deal with it" bull**? ________________________________________________________

Selim	Posted - 2005.03.11 22:22:00 - [71] People with low int/perc should be reimbursed with SP IMO. As well as people with high charisma. Because charisma is totally useless, and not having good intel and perc means you suck at training everything.
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.03.12 00:18:00 - [72] Edited by: Roy Focker on 12/03/2005 00:19:32 Originally by: Selim People with low int/perc should be reimbursed with SP IMO. As well as people with high charisma. Because charisma is totally useless, and not having good intel and perc means you suck at training everything. Why should people be reimbursed for choices that YOU made. Please, sit back and re-read your statement. The fact of the matter is that YOU made the choice. Instead of rushing through the character making process you should have went slowly and read what everything ment. That is what I did and my character is moving along quite fine. CCP has nothing to do with this. You have two options. You either continue playing with your character or you restart. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.12 00:20:00 - [73] Originally by: Roy Focker Originally by: Selim People with low int/perc should be reimbursed with SP IMO. As well as people with high charisma. Because charisma is totally useless, and not having good intel and perc means you suck at training everything. Why should people be reimbursed for choices that YOU made. Please, sit back and re-read your statement. The fact of the matter is that YOU made the choice. Instead of rushing through the chracter making process you should have went slowly and read what everything ment. That is what I did and my character is moving along quite fine. CCP has nothing to do with this. You have two options. You either continue playing with your character or you restart. I am quite getting tired of the new trend of not accepting the responsiblity of one's action. Be a man about what you do. I swear some of you really make me sick. You whiners want handouts for everything. They didn't say that charisma, willpower and memory suck. And why should you complain? You're civire, the best combat race.
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.03.12 00:27:00 - [74] Originally by: Selim Originally by: Roy Focker Originally by: Selim People with low int/perc should be reimbursed with SP IMO. As well as people with high charisma. Because charisma is totally useless, and not having good intel and perc means you suck at training everything. Why should people be reimbursed for choices that YOU made. Please, sit back and re-read your statement. The fact of the matter is that YOU made the choice. Instead of rushing through the chracter making process you should have went slowly and read what everything ment. That is what I did and my character is moving along quite fine. CCP has nothing to do with this. You have two options. You either continue playing with your character or you restart. I am quite getting tired of the new trend of not accepting the responsiblity of one's action. Be a man about what you do. I swear some of you really make me sick. You whiners want handouts for everything. They didn't say that charisma, willpower and memory suck. And why should you complain? You're civire, the best combat race. Oh, I see. You want to fight. Well, if your character is not a fighter why don't you get another account? Oh, wait you don't want to do that. You want CCP to give you a handout on a mistake YOU made. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
Selim	Posted - 2005.03.12 00:30:00 - [75] Because buying another character is stupid and I shouldnt have to suffer with a mistake I made on my first day. You're just a selfish cretin who, happy with his attributes, wants to make sure nobody else gets to train as fast even though they deserve it since they pay just as much money per month. Please die.
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.03.12 00:34:00 - [76] Edited by: Roy Focker on 12/03/2005 00:57:25 Edited by: Roy Focker on 12/03/2005 00:44:04 Originally by: Selim Because buying another character is stupid and I shouldnt have to suffer with a mistake I made on my first day. You're just a selfish cretin who, happy with his attributes, wants to make sure nobody else gets to train as fast even though they deserve it since they pay just as much money per month. Please die. Let me guess. You must be from Europe? Let's get something straight here. Once again, YOU made the choice, YOU failed to read what the attributes meant, and why should YOU be granted a upper hand on everyone else because YOU messed up. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
Bosie	Posted - 2005.03.12 02:25:00 - [77] Roy I agree 100% with you on this one. I too took the time to see what the races were for. Heck let's play city of heroes and cry when because we are a blaster and we can't tank the mobs as well as a tanker character. Why should you get free SP's because you made a mistake and I don't because I took my time and looked into what Eve and the various races were all about. Tell you what for every single SP you get because of your mistake I would like 100 million ISK, sound fair? Ohh and I get one lab slot for 1000 SP's you get to boot. Bosie. http://bosie.proboards40.com/ http://zeroimpact.co.uk/evemap
Meridius	Posted - 2005.03.12 11:08:00 - [78] Edited by: Meridius on 12/03/2005 11:09:04 Oh yeah i made a mistake. I chose a fighter character and i end up having Perc being my 3rd lowest attribute. Yeah totally my fault right, CCP are gods correct? The fact that they initially planned for willpower being gunnery primary and then changing there mind thats my fault to right? Holy ****, how can you not see whats wrong with that? If i went out and got mugged i suppose thats my fault as well? I made the decision to go outside so it must be right? If i ever have children as dim as you two, i will make sure to euthanize them. ________________________________________________________
Sherkaner	Posted - 2005.03.12 15:48:00 - [79] Locked because of repeated personal attacks. forum rules \| [email protected]


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