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VossKarr	Posted - 2005.02.16 06:12:00 - [91] Originally by: Fjellu I've seen lots of talk about how Minmatar and Caldari HAC's sucks in damage dealing but not a single post with any numbers. Do you guys calculate on your opponent being at your own optimal range and hitting all the time or how do you come to this conclusion? My Cerberus does 294,9 dmg (against hull) with each Scourge at a RoF of 6,64 seconds (L4 heavies, L4 HAC). With one active shield hardner the resistances are 55/60/70/80. Cap is a problem if tanking close range, but with a max range of 90-100km+ maybe the Cerberus isn't meant to be a close range tank. 6.64 RoF??? I use Gurista launchers and three standard BCSs, HAC 4, Missile Ops 5, 7.03 Rof. Are you using named BCSes to achieve 6.64 (or, perhaps, 4 BCSes)?
Fjellu	Posted - 2005.02.16 06:23:00 - [92] Originally by: VossKarr 6.64 RoF??? I use Gurista launchers and three standard BCSs, HAC 4, Missile Ops 5, 7.03 Rof. Are you using named BCSes to achieve 6.64 (or, perhaps, 4 BCSes)? Both
VossKarr	Posted - 2005.02.16 06:37:00 - [93]
Toom Tabard	Posted - 2005.02.17 18:33:00 - [94] I just started flying an Eagle and I'm not sure why everyone says they suck. Granted, my math is the suxxor, but I don't get what the problem is with an average of about 130 damage per second. I get plenty of excellent hits around 200-240 damage. Since the original thread was about a HAC for mission running, I really don't see a problem with the Eagle for lvl 3's. I rarely have to hit a shield booster, and the longest it's taken me to take out a cruiser is about 20 seconds. Kinda weird that I went through 5 pages on this thread and it seemes like nobody actually answered your question. here's my setup for most lvl 3's 4x 250 II's 1x Malkuth heavy (scourge) 1x Malkuth assault (defender) 1x med shield boost II 1x dread gurista web 1x shield boost amp 1x med shield extender 1x med ld cap battery 1x rcu II 3x mag field stab only time I change it is against em NPC's, and even then I'm not sure I really need to cause I kill em so fast.
Fjellu	Posted - 2005.02.18 13:35:00 - [95] Originally by: Toom Tabard I just started flying an Eagle and I'm not sure why everyone says they suck. Granted, my math is the suxxor, but I don't get what the problem is with an average of about 130 damage per second. I get plenty of excellent hits around 200-240 damage. Since the original thread was about a HAC for mission running, I really don't see a problem with the Eagle for lvl 3's. I rarely have to hit a shield booster, and the longest it's taken me to take out a cruiser is about 20 seconds. Kinda weird that I went through 5 pages on this thread and it seemes like nobody actually answered your question. here's my setup for most lvl 3's 4x 250 II's 1x Malkuth heavy (scourge) 1x Malkuth assault (defender) 1x med shield boost II 1x dread gurista web 1x shield boost amp 1x med shield extender 1x med ld cap battery 1x rcu II 3x mag field stab only time I change it is against em NPC's, and even then I'm not sure I really need to cause I kill em so fast. How is the Eagle for L4 missions? I even did L4 Mordu mission in Cerberus the other day. How does the Eagle behave in comparison?
Toom Tabard	Posted - 2005.02.21 07:12:00 - [96] Originally by: Fjellu How is the Eagle for L4 missions? I even did L4 Mordu mission in Cerberus the other day. How does the Eagle behave in comparison? I still haven't tried it yet for lvl4's, will probably do so in the next week or so. Frankly, the lvl 3's are way too easy in it right now, especially with hits like this... 2005.02.21 05:43:07combatYour 250mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Dread Pithum Silencer, wrecking for 471.9 damage.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.02.21 08:32:00 - [97] Anyone remember those dualies everyone used to hate so much? The Vagabond can do that kind of speed.
afk demonkiller	Posted - 2005.02.21 11:18:00 - [98] Yawn and so it begins. Guys this is a war game war is unfair some ships are better than others you try to do the best with what you have. In the second world war the sherman was not as good as the tiger tank but the shermans used numbers to overwhelm he enemy. In 10bc the........ i can go on forever all the way to modern day about military strengths and weakneses and how one aircraft is better than another blah de blah get on with it peeps and fight life is unfir with no differences this game would suck. There ae lots of people in this game with more isk and better ships than me there are more people who have more time to play than me if you want to change unfairness put some energy into rl and make everyone have the same oh silly me that was the idea of comunism and hey that worked out well. Or train up the skills to fly the ship you want takes time but boo hoo.
MECHcore	Posted - 2005.02.22 14:44:00 - [99] i would say , go for the eagle
Chris Henry	Posted - 2005.02.22 19:41:00 - [100] Originally by: Toom Tabard I still haven't tried it yet for lvl4's, will probably do so in the next week or so. Frankly, the lvl 3's are way too easy in it right now, especially with hits like this... 2005.02.21 05:43:07combatYour 250mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Dread Pithum Silencer, wrecking for 471.9 damage. Thats some impressive damage... What skills do you have for that? I have HAC lvl3 atm and using 250T2s and 1 damage mod I am gettig average hits of 80 against Guristas (and I thought that was pretty good!) Im guessing (I havent checked) that Piths don't have very good kinetic/heat damage? Have you tried Guristas? What sort of damage do you get against them? --------------- A Puppet Master
Damien Vox	Posted - 2005.02.23 06:28:00 - [101] Minmatar and Caldari = shafted on the HAC front. Go figure Minmatar is one of them...
Slithereen	Posted - 2005.02.23 06:39:00 - [102] Edited by: Slithereen on 23/02/2005 06:39:48 Quote: Im guessing (I havent checked) that Piths don't have very good kinetic/heat damage? Have you tried Guristas? What sort of damage do you get against them? Piths are nothing more than Guristas with crap loot. They are Gurista duplicates, intended to create a new item in the database, so they could modify the loot tables without affecting the original Guristas database entries. There are correspondents with other pirate races, like Corpus for Bloods, Gistii for Serpentis and Centus for Sansha. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Slithereen	Posted - 2005.02.23 06:47:00 - [103] Quote: Minmatar and Caldari = shafted on the HAC front. Go figure Minmatar is one of them... For a change, Caldari isn't the guys on top on this category, given that Caldari seems to have ruled almost most categories both historically and lately. As for Minmatar, have you checked the projectile changes lately? The 720s, which had never been a problem before the patch, are almost literally like battleship weapons on medium grids. On a Cyclone alone they're quite impressive, but on a HAC they're adding dmg bonuses to ROf bonuses. That would be pretty good. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
JaiMaster	Posted - 2005.02.23 07:05:00 - [104] Edited by: JaiMaster on 23/02/2005 07:05:32 the vagabond is probably the most versatile (yet weakest) of the HACs she can sit on 2500 m/s (named t1 mwd) easily. Thats faster than non-matar frigates. Can you say support spanker? Not to mention, potentially the toughest fast-tackle ship in eve.... no bs is going to swat down a vagabond tackler before it dies in small fleet combat ------- Skill points. ISK. Ships, rare equipment. Its all just a means to an end... Your end.
MOS DEF	Posted - 2005.02.23 09:49:00 - [105] Corp mate did all lvl 4 missions in a cerberus if i recall right. HE also did the maths wich were like: Raven DPS 45 Cerberus DPS: 44 The cerberus spits out heavy missiles with a speed not seen before and that at an awesome range too.
Slithereen	Posted - 2005.02.23 12:00:00 - [106] Originally by: JaiMaster Edited by: JaiMaster on 23/02/2005 07:05:32 the vagabond is probably the most versatile (yet weakest) of the HACs she can sit on 2500 m/s (named t1 mwd) easily. Thats faster than non-matar frigates. Can you say support spanker? Not to mention, potentially the toughest fast-tackle ship in eve.... no bs is going to swat down a vagabond tackler before it dies in small fleet combat It may not be as fast as a Vagabond, but it's got the midslots for them. I believe the Sacrilege used as a tackler is almost impossible to escape. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Slithereen	Posted - 2005.02.23 12:01:00 - [107] Originally by: MOS DEF Corp mate did all lvl 4 missions in a cerberus if i recall right. HE also did the maths wich were like: Raven DPS 45 Cerberus DPS: 44 The cerberus spits out heavy missiles with a speed not seen before and that at an awesome range too. Aye. Must be an impressive sight. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.02.23 12:16:00 - [108] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 23/02/2005 12:23:29 Originally by: MOS DEF Corp mate did all lvl 4 missions in a cerberus if i recall right. HE also did the maths wich were like: Raven DPS 45 Cerberus DPS: 44 The cerberus spits out heavy missiles with a speed not seen before and that at an awesome range too. HEavy launchers and seige launchers got same ROF....and raven and cerberus got same ROF bonus...but torps do 3 times heavy missile damage... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.02.23 12:17:00 - [109] "Corp mate did all lvl 4 missions in a cerberus if i recall right." Yes, NPCs are dumb and if you fire missiles at them from 100km away, they'll just sit there and wait to be hit. "HE also did the maths wich were like: Raven DPS 45 Cerberus DPS: 44" His math seems quite off. Raven with stock siege launchers does ~130 dps with cruise missiles and no damage mods (which is quite lame on its own but that's another story) while Cerberus does ~65 dps. You can easily tell his calculations are wrong since Raven's 6th launcher exactly makes up for Cerberus' faster rate of fire of the heavy launcher when compared to siege. Both ships have identical RoF bonus... So in order for Raven and Cerberus to do identical damage, cruise missile would have to do identical damage to the heavy missile ... except cruise is twice as strong.
MrJensen	Posted - 2005.02.23 15:24:00 - [110] Yupp a standard equipped Cerberus sucks to high heaven in the damage department. As for using it in lvl4 missions in a way where you lay and pop enemies at 100km wich is very doable though slow, I would reckon qualify for exploiting game mecanics since non attacks back, so cant recomend anyone doing that if they wanna stay in EVE. If you are doing missions for faction that has enemies that deals dmg towards your strongest resists LVL4 missions is a different story but that goes for all Hac's. A Cerb where you use 1 bill ++ on equipment can deal damage, but you better stay the hell away from PvP. as for Vaga and Muninn I guess they suck in missions (as probably intended when soloing lvl 4's), it can probably be done with tactics+time+time+time though, but it would be time consuming. In pvp they have there uses but compared Gallente\Amarr they fade. The Eagle I have never tryed. Ps.If you can write Norwegian you are allowed to point at my typos MrJensen/Jess Tamblyn Yet another proud member of X-CA
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.02.23 15:32:00 - [111] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 23/02/2005 15:34:00 Originally by: MrJensen Yupp a standard equipped Cerberus sucks to high heaven in the damage department. As for using it in lvl4 missions in a way where you lay and pop enemies at 100km wich is very doable though slow, I would reckon qualify for exploiting game mecanics since non attacks back, so cant recomend anyone doing that if they wanna stay in EVE. If you are doing missions for faction that has enemies that deals dmg towards your strongest resists LVL4 missions is a different story but that goes for all Hac's. A Cerb where you use 1 bill ++ on equipment can deal damage, but you better stay the hell away from PvP. as for Vaga and Muninn I guess they suck in missions (as probably intended when soloing lvl 4's), it can probably be done with tactics+time+time+time though, but it would be time consuming. In pvp they have there uses but compared Gallente\Amarr they fade. The Eagle I have never tryed. Ps.If you can write Norwegian you are allowed to point at my typos MrJensen/Jess Tamblyn Yet another proud member of X-CA 1st of all, shooting NPC from 100km isnt exploit and 2nd...how can use use a billion on equipment for cruiser? even HAC... 3rd they do not fade compared to ammar/gallente if you sue them for what they are meant to be used(can you bit tweeking tho) you are full of bull dude.. B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
MrJensen	Posted - 2005.02.23 16:33:00 - [112] Originally by: Bad'Boy Edited by: Bad'Boy on 23/02/2005 15:34:00 1st of all, shooting NPC from 100km isnt exploit and 2nd...how can use use a billion on equipment for cruiser? even HAC... 3rd they do not fade compared to ammar/gallente if you sue them for what they are meant to be used(can you bit tweeking tho) you are full of bull dude.. whatever you say mate :) if I'm not wrong, and you shoot at 100km only the one you shoot at will come after you! know do you think that this is because of your mission npc's dont care about there friend dying if they have to fly a 100km to help them, or do you think it's a mecanics flaw? of course this can be discussed, and to use the term exploit here migth be a litle harsh, but if one of my friends get sniped from 100km and I'm in a inty, I sure as hell will try to tacle the sniper Second with todays prices one cerberus + 4 Dread bcu's + a couple 55 hardeners.....Now that was hard. third there is not many ships in eve that cant be used for something if specialised towards a limited range, I still think they alround fade compared to Gallente/amarr ships. forth you are probably right at this point
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.02.23 16:45:00 - [113] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 23/02/2005 16:45:47 Originally by: MrJensen Originally by: Bad'Boy Edited by: Bad'Boy on 23/02/2005 15:34:00 1st of all, shooting NPC from 100km isnt exploit and 2nd...how can use use a billion on equipment for cruiser? even HAC... 3rd they do not fade compared to ammar/gallente if you sue them for what they are meant to be used(can you bit tweeking tho) you are full of bull dude.. whatever you say mate :) if I'm not wrong, and you shoot at 100km only the one you shoot at will come after you! know do you think that this is because of your mission npc's dont care about there friend dying if they have to fly a 100km to help them, or do you think it's a mecanics flaw? of course this can be discussed, and to use the term exploit here migth be a litle harsh, but if one of my friends get sniped from 100km and I'm in a inty, I sure as hell will try to tacle the sniper Second with todays prices one cerberus + 4 Dread bcu's + a couple 55 hardeners.....Now that was hard. third there is not many ships in eve that cant be used for something if specialised towards a limited range, I still think they alround fade compared to Gallente/amarr ships. forth you are probably right at this point 1st: NPC cant care, they got no brain 2nd: if some1 snipe and you try to tackle him from 100km in inty, then NPC got more brain then you 3rd: no1 would notmaly buy stuff like that for a cruiser B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
MrJensen	Posted - 2005.02.23 16:57:00 - [114] I rest my case.
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.23 17:08:00 - [115] Want to know the problem? Its the fact that the elite cruisers ALL got their cap recharge dropped to 268 seconds. The problem with that is the tech 1 ones had higher cap recharge times for higher capacitor batteries. IE a stabber recharged faster than a Thorax because the Thorax had a bigger cap to begin with. This was pretty balanced. The devs screwed it all up by dropping the elites down to a fixed number, rather than making it percentage-based. So a ship like a sacrilege who had its recharge time dropped by an insane amount plus got extra cap is absolutely crazy cap-wise. The ones that are better off were the ones with bigger cap to begin with, IE the Thorax, Omen, Maller, and Moa. So all the other ones got screwed, because they didnt have big cap. The solution would be to restore all cap recharge times to the ones from the base hulls, and then reduce them again, by a certain percentage. This would mean that the ships with crap cap would be better off, but they'd still not recharge as much cap/sec as the others. If the Maller recharges slower than a Caracal, why does the sacrilege recharge just as fast as a Cerberus?
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.23 17:24:00 - [116] Originally by: Selim Want to know the problem? Its the fact that the elite cruisers ALL got their cap recharge dropped to 268 seconds. The problem with that is the tech 1 ones had higher cap recharge times for higher capacitor batteries. IE a stabber recharged faster than a Thorax because the Thorax had a bigger cap to begin with. This was pretty balanced. The devs screwed it all up by dropping the elites down to a fixed number, rather than making it percentage-based. So a ship like a sacrilege who had its recharge time dropped by an insane amount plus got extra cap is absolutely crazy cap-wise. The ones that are better off were the ones with bigger cap to begin with, IE the Thorax, Omen, Maller, and Moa. So all the other ones got screwed, because they didnt have big cap. The solution would be to restore all cap recharge times to the ones from the base hulls, and then reduce them again, by a certain percentage. This would mean that the ships with crap cap would be better off, but they'd still not recharge as much cap/sec as the others. If the Maller recharges slower than a Caracal, why does the sacrilege recharge just as fast as a Cerberus? Uh, these are tech 2 ships? What the hell is the point of having a bigger capactitor if it recharges slower? And haha, you want to nerf the sacrilege? The only thing it does well is tank and you want to nerf it. GJ, it's already just a fairly useless toy ship. What does tanking like mad do if you can't hold your target or deliver decent damage? It does nothing, it's useless. gg ________________________________________________________
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.02.23 17:26:00 - [117] can some1 plz calcutale sacrileges DPS (tanked setup)? B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.23 17:33:00 - [118] No, I think you deserve a 'GG'. Why should the amarr ones get a bigger recharge-time reduction than the ones with crappy cap? Thats nonsense. And please, if you think the sacrilege sucks then you don't deserve to play EVE. Damage isnt everything. Have you ever tried to use it as a tackler?
Meridius	Posted - 2005.02.23 17:41:00 - [119] Edited by: Meridius on 23/02/2005 17:41:57 Originally by: Selim No, I think you deserve a 'GG'. Why should the amarr ones get a bigger recharge-time reduction than the ones with crappy cap? Thats nonsense. And please, if you think the sacrilege sucks then you don't deserve to play EVE. Damage isnt everything. Have you ever tried to use it as a tackler? Because amarr are the cap kings?? Why do caldari get the highest targeting ranges, why do minmatar have the fastest ships...? Duh? Your just one of those people who impressed by a ship that can sponge a lot. Don't worry, i see it a lot. Sorry, i look for cost effectiveness. 1) If you want to use the sacrilege as a fat tackler, you better look at the price tag again. If you tackle with it, you cannot uber tank, if you cannot uber tank, you die. You want to spend 65mil for tackler? Sorry, i prefer having a +6 stilleto on my team rather then a fat slow 65mil isk 'tackler' cruiser. Oh besides the price tag, let's not forget about the waiting lists ________________________________________________________
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.02.23 18:03:00 - [120] Edited by: j0sephine on 23/02/2005 18:03:37 "can some1 plz calcutale sacrileges DPS (tanked setup)?" Dunno what the tanked setup of Sacrilege is ^^;; 4 * heavy pulses + 2 * heavy launchers give ~103 hp/sec... that's all tech.1 stock gear, relevant tech.1 skills maxed out. No damage mods. 3 * heavy pulses + 3 * heavy launchers is ~97 hp/sec. Gear and skills like in the previous case.

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