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Serious Question - Can eve survive on this single universe ?

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Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:44:00 - [61] Originally by: Hesperius 12) Yes. However Eve is a game that fills niche. It is hardcore. I shall repeat, IT IS HARDCORE. Let me illustrate, <-- Easy --- Hard --> You Have to Burn The Rope - WoW & other such MMO's - Online RTS & FPS - (Large void of missing difficulty) - Eve - Russian Roulette That's not really fair, is it. Russian Roulette is supremely easyà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Traejun DiSanctis Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:45:00 - [62] @OP: I think some of the concerns you are bringing up are valid. They just aren't issues right now. With the average activity generally hovering between 30-60k people, with the high end being rare and the low end being during EU off-peak hours, I'd seeing about 40k online at any given time as a good average number. At those levels, there aren't a whole lot of problems. If the game gets more popular. If we start seeing 75-100k on at any given time. If you start to move more people out of HiSec and into low- and nul-sec. At that point, you will have a problem. One that will ultimately have to be resolved by instancing or opening another live server.
Jokerface666 Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:47:00 - [63] Originally by: Nizran L'Crit Whats funny is that Joker inadvertently proved the point that the niche market is going strong. He has just under 100 PVP kills and he is sitting at just under ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND rank. Hmm.....yet again, I say, if you really have issues with the core of this game, sounds like you need to do one of two things.. 1) Make a development company and your own game. 2) Go to another MMO Neither of these will happen because you can't even discuss an issue unless everyone agrees with you much less run a development company and the big one... Wait for it.... THERE IS NO OTHER GAME LIKE EVEO! THXKBAI! You battleclinic dweller :-D like i said, i love the ability to nuke and get nuked FOR ABSOLUTLY NO FREAKING REASON BY ANYONE ANYWHERE! that's eve, it is hard it is strange, it is kind real. i hate the statement eve is real, but somehow it is real. w00t w00t wtfpwnage train
baltec1	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Jokerface666 Originally by: Nizran L'Crit Whats funny is that Joker inadvertently proved the point that the niche market is going strong. He has just under 100 PVP kills and he is sitting at just under ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND rank. Hmm.....yet again, I say, if you really have issues with the core of this game, sounds like you need to do one of two things.. 1) Make a development company and your own game. 2) Go to another MMO Neither of these will happen because you can't even discuss an issue unless everyone agrees with you much less run a development company and the big one... Wait for it.... THERE IS NO OTHER GAME LIKE EVEO! THXKBAI! You battleclinic dweller :-D like i said, i love the ability to nuke and get nuked FOR ABSOLUTLY NO FREAKING REASON BY ANYONE ANYWHERE! that's eve, it is hard it is strange, it is kind real. i hate the statement eve is real, but somehow it is real. EVE Online. The only game where you can be a terrorist
Jokerface666 Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:50:00 - [65] Edited by: Jokerface666 on 12/05/2011 17:52:54 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Jokerface666 Originally by: Nizran L'Crit Whats funny is that Joker inadvertently proved the point that the niche market is going strong. He has just under 100 PVP kills and he is sitting at just under ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND rank. Hmm.....yet again, I say, if you really have issues with the core of this game, sounds like you need to do one of two things.. 1) Make a development company and your own game. 2) Go to another MMO Neither of these will happen because you can't even discuss an issue unless everyone agrees with you much less run a development company and the big one... Wait for it.... THERE IS NO OTHER GAME LIKE EVEO! THXKBAI! You battleclinic dweller :-D like i said, i love the ability to nuke and get nuked FOR ABSOLUTLY NO FREAKING REASON BY ANYONE ANYWHERE! that's eve, it is hard it is strange, it is kind real. i hate the statement eve is real, but somehow it is real. EVE Online. The only game where you can be a terrorist Like a mix of chaos theory, taliban boot camp, russian roulette, and poker, with tons of alcohol. i'm loving it :-D w00t w00t wtfpwnage train
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:57:00 - [66] Originally by: Jokerface666 i'm loving it :-D Oh great! Now you've completely ruined my "EVE is not like McD's" analogyà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jokerface666 Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.12 17:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jokerface666 i'm loving it :-D Oh great! Now you've completely ruined my "EVE is not like McD's" analogyà "Shall we pod him?" "Just do it!" better tippia? :-D w00t w00t wtfpwnage train
Hesperius	Posted - 2011.05.12 18:05:00 - [68] Originally by: Tippia <-- Easy --- Hard --> You Have to Burn The Rope - WoW & other such MMO's - Online RTS & FPS - (Large void of missing difficulty) - Eve - Russian Roulette That's not really fair, is it. Russian Roulette is supremely easyà You have balls of steel for saying that. Personally I'm not hardcore enough to play it. The difficulty is not always in the game mechanics (there are much more challenging games than Eve in that aspect) but sometimes the penalty for losing. Is this where I congratulate you on your victory?
Calfis Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.05.12 18:07:00 - [69] Edited by: Calfis on 12/05/2011 18:07:01 Originally by: Hermosa Diosas So im a PURE pvper, lived and fought in low sec, pirated, been part of many of the big alliances, fought in major 0.0 wars ermmm shall i continue. You certainly don't post like one, most "old" players who share the kind of views you do have long left the game before they could be considered "old" players. One really wonders that if your claims are true why you are even still playing this game... I mean you make it sound terrible so really why is your older character still here? More than likely you are simply making claims about being a pure PVPer in a poor attempt to bolster flawed arguments. Because you have been doing nothing but argue against pvp. Part of the thing that makes EVE pvp unique is that its not instanced or scheduled, it just happens and you have to deal with it. Some people deal with it better than others, you don't post like someone who deals with it well at all. Also I am not posting with an alt, I have only been playing EVE for over a year and the thing the drew me to it seems to be everything that you want to change. I'm not afraid of people going after me in game either
Jokerface666 Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.12 18:11:00 - [70] Edited by: Jokerface666 on 12/05/2011 18:11:51 to the OP: choose or leave http://imageshack.us/f/824/evesecs.jpg/ EDIT: i've added w-space, to keep it up to date. w00t w00t wtfpwnage train
Virtue Maulerant	Posted - 2011.05.12 18:12:00 - [71] Originally by: krickettt Very nice intellec questions. I too would like to know your main, to see this pure pvp character. Also, who cares if we have a smaller population than WoW does. Science Fiction has never been more popular than other mainstream crap. I want to see your proof that EVE is suffering from it's one world state. Lag in large fleet fights is pilot generated for the most part. As far as I'm concerned, the only troll I've seen ITT is you. This. The OP is so funny.
Hailey Sonata Caldari	Posted - 2011.05.12 18:26:00 - [72] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas I have to ask, because I do feel this is the cause of many problems in eve. Consider some of the issues.. 1) Alliances that have been around for years have a massive advantage over new players and alliances. Already well established, have massive ISK income, have massive super fleets that new players now have to beg and pay to be part of all this? or even pay. If people tell me well alliances die all the time, Ill scream. Yes but the same old people are just recycled to create a new alliance of the same people, rinse and repeat. 2)Older alliances did not have to compete with what is now 50K people online rather it was 8K or something, new players/alliances/corps now have this to contend with. 3) New alliances/corps/players cannot get access to the moon gold and riches because its controlled by the old players/corps/alliances. New Alliances = meaning newer players rather than new alliance/old players. So basically 0.0 is so entrenched and controlled that its impossible for new players/alliances/corps to have the same advantages. 4) Is this why lag will never be fixed? Because there are simply too many people for one universe? 5) Is this why nice quality features, more real world stuff in eve doesnt happen, and eve is just a dark dead place. because it will cause too much lag and the server cant cope. 6) Is this why we have a stupid 30 second timer on stuff, because the server simply cant catch up being in one universe 7) Fleet fights - nuff said. 8) Are we missing out on what eve could be, becuase its on one universe? 9) Are people missing out on experiencing what others have because of one universe. 10) are we kidding ourselves thinking that EVE ONE SHARD universe can actually work? Isnt this why many other MMOS have more than one world you can play one? Are CCP trying to keep this 'Look we have a single universe game' plaque, and we amazing.. but infact as eve has constantly grown and this is just not feasible anymore? 11) Are people too stubborn to realise that eve cannot cope on a single universe? and cling onto this one universe this is my eve title 12) Are we letting new players slip through our fingers because we simply dont offer them the safety and comfort of learning the game in safer universes 13) Shouldnt people have the option whether to carebear or pvp? Rather than not given the choice? In eve your part of pvp whether you want to or not..Meaning you can be attacked by anyone anywhere anytime.. 14) is CCP really thinking about its player base and future of eve or is this really just a personal project These are just a small amount of points on this issue, would be for once good to have a serious discussion on this...sadly im sure the trolls will be feeding... 0/10
Zaratustra People of Random Nature	Posted - 2011.05.12 18:46:00 - [73] To address your statement: all other mmos have multiple shard servers, there is a reason for this My answer: maybe because their server setup isn't able to carry the load of everyone on one server. Notice how large fleet battles lag a system to no end? The eve universe is branched out enough, and setup so that there aren't huge crowds of people. My other answer: the worlds they set up logistically can't handle everyone being on one server due to not enough spawns. Our universe is HUGE, not limited by terrain, and can support spawns for tons of people per system due to the huge and vast nature of the "maps" Use your brain, kid, for something other than trolling. Common sense will serve you better than stupidity
Hesperius	Posted - 2011.05.12 19:14:00 - [74] Originally by: Jokerface666 to the OP: choose or leave http://imageshack.us/f/824/evesecs.jpg/ EDIT: i've added w-space, to keep it up to date. That doesn't seem to have a solid understanding, like its creator had never been to low sec to understand it. Try this one: http://i.imgur.com/ei5WT.jpg
Eolithic WithaTwist Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.05.12 19:32:00 - [75] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas I have to ask, because I do feel this is the cause of many problems in eve. Consider some of the issues.. 1) Alliances that have been around for years have a massive advantage over new players and alliances. Already well established, have massive ISK income, have massive super fleets that new players now have to beg and pay to be part of all this? or even pay. If people tell me well alliances die all the time, Ill scream. Yes but the same old people are just recycled to create a new alliance of the same people, rinse and repeat. Alliances die all the time. ------------------------------------------- La Mano Arriba, Cintura Sola, Da Media Vuelta, Danza Kuduro! No Te Canses Ahora, Que Esto S=lo Empieza, Mueve La Cabeza, Danza Kuduro!
Daniela Darr	Posted - 2011.05.12 19:59:00 - [76] Edited by: Daniela Darr on 12/05/2011 20:06:26 Originally by: Hermosa Diosas 4) Is this why lag will never be fixed? Because there are simply too many people for one universe? Well that's not because of the number of players on the server - it's because CCP decided they rather have big lagfests than small controlled battles, by the numbers > all principle. One way or another they don't do anything to make numbers less viable, like AoE or other mechanics. Zerg is the way to go in EVE. The consequence: blobs and lag. Quote: are we kidding ourselves thinking that EVE ONE SHARD universe can actually work? Isnt this why many other MMOS have more than one world you can play one? Are CCP trying to keep this 'Look we have a single universe game' plaque, and we amazing.. but infact as eve has constantly grown and this is just not feasible anymore? It has its pros and cons. The EVE universe has expanded a few times though, we got more systems and constellations and don't forget Wormholes. I don't have the feeling that TQ is "full" although it's not empty either. This feeling is also reinforced by the fact that there's just a few trade hubs, jump stuff makes the universe a lot smaller, no incentive to go to lowsec, choke points in nullsec and just a few viable L4 agents and unbalanced LP stores make everyone pack themselves into the same few systems to name a few other reasons. Though I must admit that the prospect of a new server where everyone will start equally with zero SP has it attractiveness. Not because the limited numbers but because nothing is established yet; a t1 cruiser will still be a strong ship for quite a while; with the T2 and T3 things and everyone having better and better skills over time, the requirements for new players has increased over time on TQ. I can imagine it's not always that much fun starting anew with so many people flying around in supercarriers, while you could conquer a part of null with a small BS fleet in a new situation. If CCP would start a fresh server I'm sure a lot of people would join it. Especially new players.
Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov	Posted - 2011.05.12 20:02:00 - [77] Originally by: Hesperius Originally by: Jokerface666 to the OP: choose or leave http://imageshack.us/f/824/evesecs.jpg/ EDIT: i've added w-space, to keep it up to date. That doesn't seem to have a solid understanding, like its creator had never been to low sec to understand it. Try this one: http://i.imgur.com/ei5WT.jpg Yes, this one is indeed better.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2011.05.12 20:54:00 - [78] As to lag, if CCP did instanced 40 on 40 combat ala Alterac Valley (been a long time since I played wow, I think taht is the name), then you'd have nice smooth fights. Since they allow hundreds vs hundreds spontaneously ... it is harder. *** Signature may appear without warning! *** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
Calfis Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.05.12 21:04:00 - [79] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel As to lag, if CCP did instanced 40 on 40 combat ala Alterac Valley (been a long time since I played wow, I think taht is the name), then you'd have nice smooth fights. Since they allow hundreds vs hundreds spontaneously ... it is harder. But then it would be instanced combat rather than spontaneous Also please see the alliance tourny
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.05.12 21:14:00 - [80] Originally by: Daniela Darr Though I must admit that the prospect of a new server where everyone will start equally with zero SP has it attractiveness. Not because the limited numbers but because nothing is established yet; a t1 cruiser will still be a strong ship for quite a while; with the T2 and T3 things and the average player having better and better skills, the requirements for new players has increased a lot over time on TQ. I can imagine it's not always that much fun starting anew with so many people flying around in supercarriers, while you could conquer a part of null with a small BS fleet in a new situation. If CCP would start a fresh server I'm sure a lot of people would join it. Especially new players. I think that's true. The EVE universe is sort of stodgy now, in a way, kind of played out, and not very attractive to new players in the sense of "carving out your destiny" as it was originally. You could have some sort of hokum like a special gate opened, controlled by all the factions, and new immigrants starting from scratch in a new world (much like a repeat of the original lore idea - a New New Eden). I wouldn't be at all surprised if something like that were in the pipeline. On the technical side of things, I don't think I've ever seen a time (since 2007 when I first joined) when people haven't complained about lag in large fleet action. Is this just an unfortunate byproduct of the single server thing? Or just an insurmountable technical difficulty that any MMO would have difficulty with? My sketchy understanding of EVE tech is that it's all heavily instanced anyway ("space" or "rooms" just opens up ad hoc around objects) so it shouldn't matter that it's all on a single server really, should it? Dunno, but it might be interesting to hear pros and cons from the techy bods here. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.05.12 22:12:00 - [81] I agree totally with the OP CCP should make another sharded server, and put the OP on it so he can play EVE without being bothered by PvP and lag etc The forums should also be sharded for him ...oh wait Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3
Calfis Amarr Fukushima Industries Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2011.05.12 22:15:00 - [82] Originally by: Copine Callmeknau I agree totally with the OP CCP should make another sharded server, and put the OP on it so he can play EVE without being bothered by PvP and lag etc The forums should also be sharded for him Brilliant, I second this motion.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.05.12 22:24:00 - [83] Originally by: Nizran L'Crit In the comparative Market, WoW has about 5 million subs, many of which are 2-box or more. Granted the same can be said for eve on the 2-box front. The rest of those 12 million subs are in Asia through a completely different company and they pay per hour or minute or something like that and their average monthly is 7 dollars. Comparing EVE to WoW is beside the point though. CCP is MAKING money, how much doesn't matter, they are content with the improvements to the game, every year subs DO increase, maybe not a ton, but they do increase so they are showing positive growth. I can guarantee that if they ran multiple universes, not only would a lot of people quit, but it would also cost them money to de-centralize. Not gonna happen and none of your arguments, to me, are worth having them change the entire direction of the game. TL;DR - Bad troll is bad. I would add that comparing EVE to the very biggest (in terms of number of players that have or do currently play) mmo by far in the western market is really not really telling about whehter it is successful or not. It's like comparing any movie to Star Wars or Gone with the Wind in terms of historical box office tickets sold and market penetration. Compare Eve to a game at the 90% percentile instead of the 99.5% mark and I'm sure the contrast is far less stark
Amber Accelerando	Posted - 2011.05.12 22:33:00 - [84] TL:DR. & NO
Di Mulle	Posted - 2011.05.12 22:41:00 - [85] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas [ everyone other mmo does have more than one shard - why becuase there is a reason..funny you think that eve is the correct one, when infact its the odd one out..strange that isn it Everyone other has, and they aren't exactly bad or good for it. Bad are people, who think everyone should march uniformed in some Pyongyang square. Other games are doing their stuff, EVE is doing its'. Simple.
Tel'me Am Peur	Posted - 2011.05.12 22:59:00 - [86] I'm real bored waiting for someone to shoot back in Vale, so what the hell. 1. This point is throw around on a regular basis, the critical mistake is in assuming CCP promotes the continuity of lazy 0.0 powerblocks. They do not. In-fact they've recently begun to mobilize change against this sect of the player-base. One of the last true stumbling blocks to a more dynamic nullsec is super-cap bloat and power-creep. I hope these issues are adressed sooner rather than later, but in lieu of that you always have wormhole space to tide you over. 2. True, but we didn't have a jump bridges, capital ships, ihub upgrades, t3's, anomalies, wormholes, or a lot of other niceties you have today either. Does it make the job of taking space any easier? No, but see #1 on that, overall gameplay has expanded and one can hope that we'll see more dynamic space soon. 3. See 1. 4. See 1. 5. What new features might those be? 6. No. 7. See supercaps. 8. Not at all. 9. No. 10. No. 11. No. (Too much repetition of the same point, you could have done without) 12. Perhaps if these new players are only interested in acquiring their own sov. empire, but that is a process that takes a lot of time and effort. If they're expecting it to be a raid content patch from WoW where they can drive hard and "beat the game," in a few months they're suffering from their own unrealistic expectations. If you believe that it is impossible now, see #1. Though I can assure you it is more than possible to insert yourself into the grand arena through alliance membership in existing power structures. 13. Yes and they do have that choice. 14. One can only assume as much since we're still getting patches. Small amount of points indeed. You really only repeated the same point a good many times over. Making that point that Joe and his 40 friends cannot feasibly park on a tech moon and take a bunch of space compared to when Molle and co. did it years ago is perfectly valid. The game has done a good deal of evolving from that point in time. You really have two options at this juncture if you find yourself looking towrad that end: build your power-base from a safer place such as wormhole systems, or snuggle up with an existing alliance and make yourself useful until the point in time where you can effectively take their seat of power. I'm fairly confident the future will bring more conflict and churn to nullsec and I say this from the point of view of a player who's been here for years and who has everything to loose from it. tl;dr: Things change, start playing the game and you might get where you think you want to go. Barring that you might as well enjoy yourself along the way. In either event, if you hate the premise of a single shard universe then EVE is probably not the game for you. Have fun and if you do decide to quit, feel free to contract me your stuff for disposal.
Outouchmatralala	Posted - 2011.05.12 23:06:00 - [87] you had me at "serious question"
Mr Dilkington	Posted - 2011.05.13 01:08:00 - [88] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas I have to ask, because I do feel this is the cause of many problems in eve. Consider some of the issues.. 1) Alliances that have been around for years have a massive advantage over new players and alliances. Already well established, have massive ISK income, have massive super fleets that new players now have to beg and pay to be part of all this? or even pay. If people tell me well alliances die all the time, Ill scream. Yes but the same old people are just recycled to create a new alliance of the same people, rinse and repeat. 2)Older alliances did not have to compete with what is now 50K people online rather it was 8K or something, new players/alliances/corps now have this to contend with. 3) New alliances/corps/players cannot get access to the moon gold and riches because its controlled by the old players/corps/alliances. New Alliances = meaning newer players rather than new alliance/old players. So basically 0.0 is so entrenched and controlled that its impossible for new players/alliances/corps to have the same advantages. 4) Is this why lag will never be fixed? Because there are simply too many people for one universe? 5) Is this why nice quality features, more real world stuff in eve doesnt happen, and eve is just a dark dead place. because it will cause too much lag and the server cant cope. 6) Is this why we have a stupid 30 second timer on stuff, because the server simply cant catch up being in one universe 7) Fleet fights - nuff said. 8) Are we missing out on what eve could be, becuase its on one universe? 9) Are people missing out on experiencing what others have because of one universe. 10) are we kidding ourselves thinking that EVE ONE SHARD universe can actually work? Isnt this why many other MMOS have more than one world you can play one? Are CCP trying to keep this 'Look we have a single universe game' plaque, and we amazing.. but infact as eve has constantly grown and this is just not feasible anymore? 11) Are people too stubborn to realise that eve cannot cope on a single universe? and cling onto this one universe this is my eve title 12) Are we letting new players slip through our fingers because we simply dont offer them the safety and comfort of learning the game in safer universes 13) Shouldnt people have the option whether to carebear or pvp? Rather than not given the choice? In eve your part of pvp whether you want to or not..Meaning you can be attacked by anyone anywhere anytime.. 14) is CCP really thinking about its player base and future of eve or is this really just a personal project These are just a small amount of points on this issue, would be for once good to have a serious discussion on this...sadly im sure the trolls will be feeding... Instead of typing out all that you could have just put "I dont know how the game works, nor do i know much about it" in response to your title: yes.
Murtal Liven	Posted - 2011.05.13 01:39:00 - [89] Sounds like someone should go back to their PvE WoW server. Considering EvE has survived for 8 years on a single server while offering the unique gameplay element of ALWAYS being a part of PvP, I'd say that these "problems" you're suggesting are in fact what makes EvE the unique game that it is.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.05.13 03:52:00 - [90] OP got bored and left thread? 1) Yes, entities that stayed around have seen and done most of it all. But as history shows this sometimes (not always) leads to false confidence which leads to fail. 2) Old alliances had no 'alliance mechanics' to begin with. Are some of those current mechanics screwed and bad for the game and new folks? Possibly. See last blog by gamedesign who try to address those issues. 3) Moon poo afaik is the last of the former ultimate monopoly sources - CCP managed to remove static plexes and ABC ore from this palette so far. As they're looking at it again they'll for sure address this 'somehow'. 4) Lag has game-mechanical and technical reasons (bigger blob beats big blob and big blob is needed to flip sov) and is being constantly addressed. Game mechanical: CCP will look at it next. Technical: CCP constantly looks to better this. 5) no idea what you mean by "nice quality features, more real world stuff".. 6) the '30second timer on stuff' is there because the database and engine behind this game needs some time to process the stuff all of us do and it has been found to be a good time-frame to make sure all transactions had a chance to happen. Eve will stay one-sharded, thus this feature will stay with us.. CCP pointed out though that they might give us a single 30sec timer on currently 2x 30s timers for swapping docking+swapping ships+undocking. 7) no idea what this hollow phrase means: 'Fleet fights - nuff said' 8) I don't know what you think you miss out on. I definitely would miss out on something (one huge world with all it's ramifications) if New Eden would be sharded. So, no. Play X3 or Freelancer or Privateer if you want such a game-world. 9) Huh? Who tells you, you can't play your arse off (5hours a day with several accounts and doing mostly stuff for and with other people) and be an alliance leader or a titan pilot or a fleet-commander or another Chribba? Oh, you want that NOW and without the 'work your arse off'-part?! Well, I think you can't have that as I can't have that either. 10) If you're the first who raided the newest mount or you're the best pvp-er or the guy with the most gold on shard XYZ it means squat on all the other shards. If you're the leader of a 6000 man alliance or you're Chribba or you got the most iskies or you scammed people for thousands of real-world-dollars in Eve.. yeah, this means something (Real Newspapers run articels about that). But this doesn't come for free or without dedication (the part you're missing). This also doesn't happen without the single shard and the cut-throat-environment that is Eve. Deal with it. 11) add hominem attack - any answer that does counter your statement is labeled 'stubborn' from the get go. 12) Again.. all this end-game stuff you think others got before you and you're not able to experience does have a price tag you seem to not to want to pay. 13) This feature is a cornerstone of Eve. Deal with it. 14) CCP actually seems to think about this on a constant basis and in metrics that are generally accepted to measure success on a good way. - number of paid accounts grow - number of employees grow - number of revenue grows - number of IPs grows As to your last thing. You didn't start a discussion. All you did was posting statements that show you didn't got Eve and add hominem attacks. From this I gather that Eve-Online isn't for you. Please do yourself a favor and leave and find another Scifi-MMO that caters to your kind. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!

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