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Nerf Unscannable Tengus !!!!!!!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Solli Crow	Posted - 2011.06.04 09:37:00 - [121] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509071&page=22#653 Nerfing is inevitable !!!
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 10:23:00 - [122] The irony is that people who are finding it difficult to catch missions tengus are crying about easy mode. This isn't about easy mode, it is about who gets to fly on easy mode. Be careful what you wish for, they may just nerf the ratio of sensor strength to sig radius. Tengu pilots then just drop the MWD and then back to square one to those of you dissatisfied with the low hanging fruit. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:09:00 - [123] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium The irony is that people who are finding it difficult to catch missions tengus are crying about easy mode. This isn't about easy mode, it is about who gets to fly on easy mode. Be careful what you wish for, they may just nerf the ratio of sensor strength to sig radius. Tengu pilots then just drop the MWD and then back to square one to those of you dissatisfied with the low hanging fruit. Uhm... so how would that change anything? Correct me if needed but Tengus with active mwd aren't unscannable in the first place. And on the other hand a Tengu without any mwd is just the same as a Tengu that doesn't have mwd active. So as far as I can tell what you just said makes no sense. -- Originally by: CCP Elais It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:20:00 - [124] Edited by: Ghoest on 04/06/2011 11:20:09 Originally by: Zarkonas I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. I Youre an ----- if anything in a video game shocks you. 2 Youre full of --- 3 If a ship wants to gimp itself by getting rid of 3 module slots essentially - who cares. And I dont have an unscannable Tengu. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:35:00 - [125] Originally by: Solli Crow So, I'm asking u CCP what was the point of moving all level 5 into low sec??? Really? Well, yeah u sacrifice a bit of gank but u still have a piece of mind that nobody can find u. The point of it was to feed scumcrap liking instant gratification with no effort, it worked. You have lvl5 stuff and no one other than locals with cap stuff doing them time to time. Great you've got moar target babe... No you haven't, you fail You have Anoms and Plex but don't run them because it's "silly stuff", however they want CCP to maintain those and their quality so that brings moar targets... It doesn't, you fail once again. lvl5 missions, cry here cry there and still crying to bring lvl4 missions to low sec, they don't do them because kill npc's is silly stuff, but they want them in low sec to bring moar targets. It doesn't, you fail once again. Then, cry here cry there because people enjoying mission activities don't come to low sec and to have their epeen stuff they have to create alt corps in high sec to grief high sec players while the pos is mining moon stuff in 0.3 and <, no big alliance wants those so... Fail. Do you ever think you'll get more targets because they will be able to probe them? -not a second, those using them will just not do those missions or you're really stupid to believe it, at better you'll catch a pair of them because they're too lazy to read patch notes. Once again you fail, and once again CCP fails even more than you listening to such arrogant selfish unsocial schizophrenics. I'm living in low sec for a moment now, I enjoy trying to catch those guys because there is always something with lag, bad click or whatever that will make him do the deadly mistake. But for the meanwhile he can win some isk so he can easily replace it when I'll blow it and he will be back again because he will enjoy playing the cat/rat since he has 1/10 to be caught, and the price tag of it's Tengus pixels if he gets caught will just be some detail for him. It's fair to me.
achoura	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:42:00 - [126] Originally by: Swynet It's fair to me. What about nullifying i.e. making useless complete skill, ship, implant, module and production lines required for scanning? While it as a profession still works, if there isn't a chance of a hit, no matter how small, then there is no balance. It's just plain broken. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Swynet	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:43:00 - [127] Originally by: achoura Originally by: Swynet It's fair to me. What about nullifying i.e. making useless complete skill, ship, implant, module and production lines required for scanning? While it as a profession still works, if there isn't a chance of a hit, no matter how small, then there is no balance. It's just plain broken. It's low sec and how people made it who's broken, not the Tengu.
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:46:00 - [128] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium The irony is that people who are finding it difficult to catch missions tengus are crying about easy mode. This isn't about easy mode, it is about who gets to fly on easy mode. Be careful what you wish for, they may just nerf the ratio of sensor strength to sig radius. Tengu pilots then just drop the MWD and then back to square one to those of you dissatisfied with the low hanging fruit. Uhm... so how would that change anything? Correct me if needed but Tengus with active mwd aren't unscannable in the first place. And on the other hand a Tengu without any mwd is just the same as a Tengu that doesn't have mwd active. So as far as I can tell what you just said makes no sense. No your right, I don't know where my head is this morning. Hope it's on my shoulders. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Twistator	Posted - 2011.06.04 12:35:00 - [129] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 04/06/2011 11:47:55 Edit: But this is still about who gets to fly on easy mode. Sisters scan probes skills at five and a virtue set can overcome the improbable tengu. Ehm no .. The entire point of this thread is that even with all those things its still impossible to get a lock. Its mathematical impossible to scan down an unprobable ship even with perfect skills, rigged ship, sisters gear and implants.
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:06:00 - [130] I currently fly lvl5 missions in unprob tengu + basi team. No, you will not catch me at a gate, cause I have 4 pairs of those ships in the main 4 systems my agents send me to. Yes, you can catch me at the station. I have instas and use them if needed. But I have killed quite some ppl who used instas in my time. Directional scan will tell them how far away their insta is, setup there. If they cloak in warp, their choice to run mission with cloak on the ship. They are clever, they deserve to avoid your PVP fitted ship. If unprob is nerfed, I will sell those tengus again, as flying them in low sec would make no sense to me anymore. The number of tengu ganks u get from me stays the same. Zero. Having run some lvl5s now, I think a passive tanked moa + osprey support + bomber for damage will do the trick, too. Have fun ganking t1 cruisers... About being alert and using D-scan to see probes incoming... If they change the probing system in the way, that the prober has to manually activate his probe launcher every 5 seconds to keep all the probes in space alive, I am happy to click the D-Scan button every 5 seconds as well. Or just make this damn D-scan automatic, cycling every 5-10 seconds based on a skill, so I don't have to click it like mad while dealing with NPCs. (If pvp-centrics get their easy mode, I want my easy mode as well )

C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:14:00 - [131] And while we are at it... CCP please change probes in that way, that they automatically get lost when the scanning ship cloaks. We don't want to have unscannable ships that can actually do stuff, do we?
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:16:00 - [132] Originally by: Twistator Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 04/06/2011 11:47:55 Edit: But this is still about who gets to fly on easy mode. Sisters scan probes skills at five and a virtue set can overcome the improbable tengu. Ehm no .. The entire point of this thread is that even with all those things its still impossible to get a lock. Its mathematical impossible to scan down an unprobable ship even with perfect skills, rigged ship, sisters gear and implants. The numbers I'm looking at say it is, it is just difficult. Difficult is not impossible. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:26:00 - [133] Originally by: achoura What about nullifying i.e. making useless complete skill, ship, implant, module and production lines required for scanning? While it as a profession still works, if there isn't a chance of a hit, no matter how small, then there is no balance. It's not nullifying anything. Like you say, the profession still works. Moreover, that argument works both ways: why should scanning nullify the skill, ship, implant, modules and production lines required to be unprobable? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:29:00 - [134] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium The numbers I'm looking at say it is, it is just difficult. Difficult is not impossible. your numbers are wrong. Otherwise I would be down some Tengus by now. I have had some dedicated probe alts with sisters probes scanning for me (yes, I still D-Scan when I see known pirate alts in local, I am not lazy enough to stop being paranoid). If they had implants or not, I dunno. But they all gave up and somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig. If your math were right, I just got lucky for a long time :) ....
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:32:00 - [135] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat If they had implants or not, I dunno. My guess is all the complaints are from those who can't or won't spend the money on implants. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:35:00 - [136] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig You only need 93% if you compare them that way, actually. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:39:00 - [137] Edited by: C0mbat W0mbat on 04/06/2011 13:40:08 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig You only need 93% if you compare them that way, actually. oh... well, thanks. I like that I err on the safe side :) I still overload the ECCMs when painted by pesky angels http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1119841 there is a spreadsheet where u can reverse engineer the math and compare to yours, Halcyon
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:49:00 - [138] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat oh... well, thanks. I like that I err on the safe side :) Heh. It's mainly a matter of remembering the order of the factors and the direction of the "less than" sign. Everyone remembers that sigres sensor strength and 1.08 is involvedà somehow ù remembering how is the tricky part. My mnemonic is this: To be unprobable, the blip you make in space has to be smaller than some threshold value. The blip you make in space is ù as always ù your signature radius. For scanning purposes, that blip is reduced by your sensor strength. The threshold value is 1.08 Thus: SigRad / SensorStr < 1.08 makes you unprobable àor, if you like, SensorStr > SigRad / 1.08 ↔ SensorStr > SigRad + 0.93. àor SigRad < SensorStr + 1.08 ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:59:00 - [139] Originally by: Tippia math stuff reminds me how a friend called this game "Excel in space". And he meant the microsoft product, not the verb :)
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 14:04:00 - [140] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat Edited by: C0mbat W0mbat on 04/06/2011 13:48:44 Edited by: C0mbat W0mbat on 04/06/2011 13:40:08 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig You only need 93% if you compare them that way, actually. oh... well, thanks. I like that I err on the safe side :) I still overload the ECCMs when painted by pesky angels http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1119841 there is a spreadsheet where u can reverse engineer the math and compare to yours, Halcyon Or maybe it's not about the math at all, but you run SoE missions and want to sell those virtue sets I'd have to say that the spread sheet is worthless. Even when removing all bonus' to the target and giving the hunter all advantage it still says the tengu is unscanable. Which means the spread sheet is wrong or the improbable fit is superfluous and never mattered. As for selling virtue sets, no, but that isn't a bad idea. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?

Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.04 14:34:00 - [141] As far as I'm concerned, if I'm eager to be an absolutely awesome character in scanning and invest freaking bunch of time in training those skills (those skills by the way are quite time consuming) + buying faction launcher and faction probes + putting in my head a set of implants for 2.5 bil to boost my chance to find somebody only to find out that there are actually quite a few ships that are flying around that are completely undetectable from my buzzard. Doesn't it ring a bell for all those folks who talk some irrelevant stuff??? Guys Eve online is awesome but it's not perfect !!! there are bunch of imperfection and imbalances. And the point is not to say oh if you nerf this then make sure you nerf that. This thread is about drawing attention to one of the imbalances. U wanna talk about some other stuff, create a different thread.
Jojin Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:43:00 - [142] I think the best suggestion thus far is to just make the building materials for the different T3 ships unique. Then, though the Tengu might be best for non-probed mission running, the cost will reflect it. In fact it would apply to help balancing all the T3 ships. Those racial versions which are seen as more effective will have a cost to reflect it. I mean if it costs and takes the same in parts to build a Yugo versus Ferrari who in the right mind would want the Yugo?
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:51:00 - [143] a GM told me in a petition that nothing is unprobable, even with my listed 130 sig with 155 eccm. i no longer make unproable setups.
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:55:00 - [144] Originally by: Jojin I think the best suggestion thus far is to just make the building materials for the different T3 ships unique. Then, though the Tengu might be best for non-probed mission running, the cost will reflect it. In fact it would apply to help balancing all the T3 ships. Those racial versions which are seen as more effective will have a cost to reflect it. I mean if it costs and takes the same in parts to build a Yugo versus Ferrari who in the right mind would want the Yugo? So you basically just say: If they paid through the nose for the ship, it is allowed to be unprobable... right? So where is the threshold? I am willing to pay this, just to keep harvesting pirate tears. But unfortunately, if the 800M for the tengu in its current state (incl the basilisk for running lvl 5) is not expensive enough, when will the l33t PVPers accept that the price tag rectifies the unprobability?
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:57:00 - [145] Originally by: Dr Fighter a GM told me in a petition that nothing is unprobable, even with my listed 130 sig with 155 eccm. i no longer make unproable setups. You are not allowed to post GM replies. OK, you did not post the exact reply, but the level of knowledge shown there by the GM must be one reason why you are not allowed to post their replies. But from someone sitting in a polaris frig with godmode mods u may actually be probable
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.04 16:13:00 - [146] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat Originally by: Dr Fighter a GM told me in a petition that nothing is unprobable, even with my listed 130 sig with 155 eccm. i no longer make unproable setups. You are not allowed to post GM replies. OK, you did not post the exact reply, but the level of knowledge shown there by the GM must be one reason why you are not allowed to post their replies. But from someone sitting in a polaris frig with godmode mods u may actually be probable Actually thats the type of post that is frequently if not always allowed. The only thing he attributed to the GM was that "nothing is unprobable." Wherever you went - Here you are.
Jojin Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.04 16:23:00 - [147] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat Originally by: Jojin I think the best suggestion thus far is to just make the building materials for the different T3 ships unique. Then, though the Tengu might be best for non-probed mission running, the cost will reflect it. In fact it would apply to help balancing all the T3 ships. Those racial versions which are seen as more effective will have a cost to reflect it. I mean if it costs and takes the same in parts to build a Yugo versus Ferrari who in the right mind would want the Yugo? So you basically just say: If they paid through the nose for the ship, it is allowed to be unprobable... right? So where is the threshold? I am willing to pay this, just to keep harvesting pirate tears. But unfortunately, if the 800M for the tengu in its current state (incl the basilisk for running lvl 5) is not expensive enough, when will the l33t PVPers accept that the price tag rectifies the unprobability? Basically, Yes. This thread is about nerfing the Tengu, a specific ship. Many ships can reach the state of being unprobable, however, those aren't efficient at the mission running. So if the cost (risk) is high enough, then people will be come more aggressive to get a kill and more paranoid to do missions with them. Now if you want to make another thread about removing the unprobable state that would be different.
Qalix	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:18:00 - [148] So, CCP Dropbear, do you have our backs vs. CCP Soundwave? Or is the unprobeable nerf happening no matter what? Just give us some information so we can make long term plans. That is one of the most aggravating things about this game. A game mechanic is introduced, people skill up and spend ISK, then the game mechanic is changed. I would not have bothered with creating an unprobeable tengu mission runner if unprobeable wasn't a possibility. That's one new account opened, money spent, time training spent, the cost of tengu and implants, etc etc. Its not nice to jerk the players around.
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:25:00 - [149] The ones that whine about unprobable mission runners are the ones that will whine about their probed down gang booster T3s when it gets nerfed.
Zeta Kalin Large Rodent Hunters	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:31:00 - [150] Originally by: Hauling Hal Edited by: Hauling Hal on 02/06/2011 22:44:11 This guy wasn't unscannable, but he was killed at a safe spot and we didn't use any probes to get him. Admittedly it took over an hour, but using the same technique you can find 'unscannable' ships. http://bops.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9625810 Nope, mission spot are usually well off plane, no amount of bookmarking in warp between your existing BMs/celestials can help you if he's far off any of the plane you can make enough. Too catch someone he must be inside a tetrahedron defined by exiting warpables, them being bookmarks or celestial. Even in a well mapped systems where you have dozens of bms or more, people are often outside that...



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