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Nerf Unscannable Tengus !!!!!!!

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Zarkonas	Posted - 2011.06.02 21:53:00 - [1] One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp. Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions. Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!!
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.02 21:55:00 - [2] Edited by: Miilla on 02/06/2011 21:57:01 Originally by: Zarkonas One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp. Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions. Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!! Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized. They get stack penelties. 1st mod: c(1) = 100,000% effectiveness 2nd mod: c(2) = 86,9119842% 3rd mod: c(3) = 57,1037996% 4th mod: c(4) = 28,2469117% 5th mod: c(5) = 10,5988834% 6th mod: c(6) = 2,9989473% 7th mod: c(7) = 0,5134081% 8th mod: c(8) = 0,2106917% You can scan them down, just takes more effort, which you don't seem to want to do. Have you tried drinking Quafe Zero? Congratulations, capsuleer! You have been selected to receive a free limited batch of Quafe Zero, the performance drink with the powers of a booster! Enjoy the benefits of increased reflexes with none of the drawbacks! Benefits: +5% Speed, +5% Scan Resolution. Duration: 1 hour. Attached Ad Copy As a capsuleer, you are immortal. You have all eternity to seize your destiny. ShouldnÆt you have a soft drink that can perform as well as you? Quafe thinks so. ThatÆs why weÆve developed Quafe Zero. Using the latest in cutting edge biotechnology, our industry-leading scientists have reverse-engineered Quafe Zero from compounds found only in Sleeper vessels. Quafe Zero is fortified with a proprietary mix of performance enhancers, oxidizers, and natural fruit juices designed to push your abilities to the limit. The secret is in our patented fulleroferrocene nanite delivery system, which attaches our exclusive pro-capsuleer formula directly to the neurons you want, not the ones you donÆt. The result is an immediate and direct boost to your performance, with Zero drawbacks! Quafe Zero is a product of the Quafe Company. Quafe does not condone the use of boosters or other illicit substances. The Quafe Company disavows responsibility for any side effects caused by consuming Sleeper technology. Warning: Quafe Zero is designed for capsuleer use only. Side effects experienced by non-capsuleers include but are not limited to dizziness, blindness, nausea, internal hemorrhaging, IBS, sleepwalking, amnesia, sexual deviancy, vision changes, acute epidermal sloughing, partial or total loss of motor control, and minor skin rash. Quafe Zero is manufactured in the Phoenix constellation. Quafe Zero: Multiply your eternity by Zero!
Command 00	Posted - 2011.06.02 21:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Zarkonas One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp. Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions. Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!! Ohh Shut Up
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Command 00 Originally by: Zarkonas One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp. Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions. Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!! Ohh Shut Up My version was better :)
Zarkonas	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:02:00 - [5] haha here comes the smart guy, so guess what I have maxed out skills pimped out ship and full set of imps in my head to boost my scanning ability. I'm freaking good at scanning but I don't come near to get a warp point on unscannable tengu. So move on this post is not for u
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Miilla You can scan them down, just takes more effort, which you don't seem to want to do. You are wrong. ~~~
Swynet	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:04:00 - [7] Free tears for all. C'mon guys fill your cups
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:05:00 - [8] Edited by: Miilla on 02/06/2011 22:05:50 Originally by: Zarkonas haha here comes the smart guy, so guess what I have maxed out skills pimped out ship and full set of imps in my head to boost my scanning ability. I'm freaking good at scanning but I don't come near to get a warp point on unscannable tengu. So move on this post is not for u Directional? have you tried tweaking the NUMBERS on the DIRECTIONAL to narrow down the direction and distance? Tried a fleet using the directional to triangulate?
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Miilla Originally by: Command 00 Originally by: Zarkonas One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp. Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions. Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!! Ohh Shut Up My version was better :) your version was an idiot you can't scan down unscannable ships, even if you try really really hard. The math does not allow it. _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Azelor Delaria Caldari Infinite Entropy	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:05:00 - [10] Pirates: Nerf unscannable T3s so we can get some juicy kills in low sec! CCP: Okay. Two months later, no sexy ships to be killed, so pirates complain again because all they get are Drakes. *** * * *** "No OPLAN ever survives first contact with the enemy."

Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:09:00 - [11] Pirate tears. Truly exquisite.. ____________ Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
Nemo deBlanc	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Azelor Delaria Pirates: Nerf unscannable T3s so we can get some juicy kills in low sec! CCP: Okay. Two months later, no sexy ships to be killed, so pirates complain again because all they get are Drakes. This. A million times, this. They'll probably also complain about the rising cost of faction mods at the same time.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Miilla Originally by: Zarkonas haha here comes the smart guy, so guess what I have maxed out skills pimped out ship and full set of imps in my head to boost my scanning ability. I'm freaking good at scanning but I don't come near to get a warp point on unscannable tengu. So move on this post is not for u Directional? have you tried tweaking the NUMBERS on the DIRECTIONAL to narrow down the direction and distance? Tried a fleet using the directional to triangulate? Getting onto the same grid without using probes is an extremely slow process, involving repeated bookmarking when in warp, and is very difficult at the best of times. The target is likely to complete their mission before you can reach them, and if they're checking their own directional scanner they'll have plenty of warning that you're approaching. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Originally by: Miilla Originally by: Zarkonas haha here comes the smart guy, so guess what I have maxed out skills pimped out ship and full set of imps in my head to boost my scanning ability. I'm freaking good at scanning but I don't come near to get a warp point on unscannable tengu. So move on this post is not for u Directional? have you tried tweaking the NUMBERS on the DIRECTIONAL to narrow down the direction and distance? Tried a fleet using the directional to triangulate? Getting onto the same grid without using probes is an extremely slow process, involving repeated bookmarking when in warp, and is very difficult at the best of times. The target is likely to complete their mission before you can reach them, and if they're checking their own directional scanner they'll have plenty of warning that you're approaching. BUT, it CAN be done. Hence my original statement about requiring a little bit more effort.
Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:15:00 - [15] The point is I'm running level 5 too, but I'm running them with two perfectly scannable ships. So anyone who would like to get me probed out, more than welcome to do it. That's why I'm watching local, and use my onboard scanner. What was the real point of moving all level fives into low sec? )) come on!!! take a guess? making it harder to run. getting 100K lp should be hard. with unscannable tengus pffff... piece of cake. U never worry about anything. Why did they nerf falcons? to be freaking able to kill them. Sitting at 200km from the target is absolutely safe. So why I can't probe out ship that boost the fleet ? unscannable ships is a problem and I don't see it being defferent from outlined above. they should be nerfed.
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:16:00 - [16] Edited by: Miilla on 02/06/2011 22:17:08 Originally by: Lydia Rhyme The point is I'm running level 5 too, but I'm running them with two perfectly scannable ships. So anyone who would like to get me probed out, more than welcome to do it. That's why I'm watching local, and use my onboard scanner. What was the real point of moving all level fives into low sec? )) come on!!! take a guess? making it harder to run. getting 100K lp should be hard. with unscannable tengus pffff... piece of cake. U never worry about anything. Why did they nerf falcons? to be freaking able to kill them. Sitting at 200km from the target is absolutely safe. So why I can't probe out ship that boost the fleet ? unscannable ships is a problem and I don't see it being defferent from outlined above. they should be nerfed. There ish no pleashing you lot, If I sit there in my cloaked Cheetah, you cry If I sit in my uncloaked ECCM Cheetah, you cry If I sit in my Tengu, you cry Hell if I enter your nullsec system, you cry Then one day you come to Rens 0.8 highsec, and you beat your chest how awesome you are and we should all go to nullsec.
Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:17:00 - [17] Miila u just an idiot, getting in the same grid is a bit different from probing. Please, get out of this discussion u are not putting anything positive to it. Troll
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:19:00 - [18] You can also make an unscannable frig and park it in a 0.0 botting system. Go AFK without the need of a cloak. Then if local ever goes away, the bots will still get scared and POS up.
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club ROMANIAN-LEGION	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:21:00 - [19] Wait... You'r complaining that there are some quite big and expensive fish in the fish tank who are smarter than others and just WIN and manage not only to do their job, but also avoid getting eaten? It looks just like the afk-cloakers whines, just now it's about a different thing. EVERYTHING in eve is scannable if it's a ship, unless it's got an active cloak. Move to 0.0 dude and face true uncatchable enemies who are invisible and undetectable. Besides, why do you cry? Just catch him on a gate or when he's undocking/docking.
Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:32:00 - [20] romanian-legion guy if u ever scan an unscannable tengu, I will give u my proteus. Contact me in game and come to Otsasai, we have plenty of unscanable ships there. now regarding your ******ed comment about gate. Did u notice that t3 can actually fit a covert ops subsystem oh and do u know also that combining mwd and cloak gives u opportunity to warp off almost instantly, no chance to catch u. but covert ops is meant to be that way. now being unscannable is bit wrong. Fellas give me some good arguments. Trolling wastes our time!

Hauling Hal	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Hauling Hal on 02/06/2011 22:44:11 This guy wasn't unscannable, but he was killed at a safe spot and we didn't use any probes to get him. Admittedly it took over an hour, but using the same technique you can find 'unscannable' ships. http://bops.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9625810
VaL Iscariot Caldari Natural Selection.	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:46:00 - [22] my tear cup hath overfloweth. Catch him on gate. Cloakey freak you cry. Catch him on station. Insta undock. In a mission. Can't scan him. :cry: Sounds like the person you're chasing is being pretty damn smart about what they're doing. It also sounds like this Tengu pilot is used to living in low sec, where as you sound like a whiny *****. Go join some carebear high sec war dec corp and stop dumbing up my low sec. TL;DR Please, by all means, cry more.
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Lydia Rhyme romanian-legion guy if u ever scan an unscannable tengu, I will give u my proteus. Contact me in game and come to Otsasai, we have plenty of unscanable ships there. now regarding your ******ed comment about gate. Did u notice that t3 can actually fit a covert ops subsystem oh and do u know also that combining mwd and cloak gives u opportunity to warp off almost instantly, no chance to catch u. but covert ops is meant to be that way. now being unscannable is bit wrong. Fellas give me some good arguments. Trolling wastes our time! You owe him a Proteus. Before probes were in the game ships were scanned down using D-Scan. It takes time, but it can be done.
Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:49:00 - [24] oh jesus d-scan d-scan blah blah blah, topic is about probes probes probes, I can't believe how many stupid people out there. And one more comment: cloaking, instant warp all good stuff... so shove your comments up your butt
Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.02 22:53:00 - [25] your d scan is useless against unscannable mission tengu. haveing a mission on a strait line between gates stations belts is highly unlikely. they still keep pointing it out. unbelievable
VaL Iscariot Caldari Natural Selection.	Posted - 2011.06.02 23:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Lydia Rhyme your d scan is useless against unscannable mission tengu. haveing a mission on a strait line between gates stations belts is highly unlikely. they still keep pointing it out. unbelievable HAHAHA OH THE TEARS!! MORE I SAY!! MOOOOOOAAAARRR
Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.02 23:11:00 - [27] nobody is crying nerfing is a suggestion: whether u like it or not. Give me a very good reason for not doing it. So far I don't see any. you are making posts that don't really relate to problem. I 'm not complaining about instant warp spots or cloak and yet for some reason u makeing some conclusions. shrug

CCP Dropbear	Posted - 2011.06.02 23:17:00 - [28] I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently?

Malak Alraheem	Posted - 2011.06.02 23:23:00 - [29] ^Win
Asurymen	Posted - 2011.06.02 23:25:00 - [30] Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? Dropbear just pwned you with logic. Suck it!

Goose99	Posted - 2011.06.02 23:25:00 - [31] Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? He probably never even seen a lvl5 mission before. It's just an excuse: Oh look, the big bad unscannable tengus are doing all those bad things to the LP market and such. It doesn't look at pathetic as saying: Boohoo, I wasted my time trying to scan for unscannables and are now full of rage and tears.
Catherine Airuta	Posted - 2011.06.03 00:20:00 - [32] The OP got completely and utterly pwned by CCP Dropbear simply by using a bit of logic and knowledge that any lvl 5 mission runner would know. So how come nobody else could say the obvious?
Jack Tronic	Posted - 2011.06.03 00:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Catherine Airuta The OP got completely and utterly pwned by CCP Dropbear simply by using a bit of logic and knowledge that any lvl 5 mission runner would know. So how come nobody else could say the obvious? Because the bears will keep talking even after having used logic used agaisnt htem. However CCP with their shiny blue text pretty muchs pwned.
Taladool Minmatar JIta-Hosting	Posted - 2011.06.03 00:27:00 - [34] Not that I am agreeing with the op, but on paper you can get a fairly good setup that is cap stable, active armor tanked and still does fair dps, give or take, is still unscannable, and it wont break the bank. Could it run lvl 5's, I'm going to say no, but it would run lvl 4's pretty easy. I don't know if this would be considered broken or not, but I'm going to side with everyone here and say cry more op? TS3 and TS2 servers for rent, order here
Linas IV	Posted - 2011.06.03 00:37:00 - [35] Edited by: Linas IV on 03/06/2011 00:43:34 Edited by: Linas IV on 03/06/2011 00:39:37 Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? CCP is so much out of touch with their own game nowadays its terrible. Example A: Only accept missions without neut/web towers (about 40%) => Single unprobable Tengu works fine by speedtanking Example B: Use an unprobable Ceptor-alt to Speedtank the Missions => works always and is 100% save if you know what you do Example C: Use 2 or more Unprobable Tengus Remote-shieldboosting each other => works like a charm aswell since neuts always focus on 1 target (Example D: every lv5 missionhub has stations in every system => Refit for Covops to pass gates, because decloaking-cans on gates are a bannable offense by CCPs eula) (Example E: simply Jump the ships via carrier between systems, 100% save aswell) => A Lowsec missionrunner that knows what he needs to do is 100% Uncachable, period. Don't get me started how unprobable Ganglink T3s screw-up the small-gang PVP-balance..... Simply take Sensor strength as a logarythmic factor for Calculating the signature strength, not linaery => problem Fixed
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.03 00:59:00 - [36] there are other ways to scan down a mission runner than probing for their ship...
Grumpymunky	Posted - 2011.06.03 01:27:00 - [37] Originally by: CCP Dropbear Tell me what I'm missing here: As you suspect, the first thing you are missing is that not all 5's have neuting. But this is made irrelevant by the other thing you are missing: assuming that it is done with a single ship, and not 3 or 4 alts. Anyway, this is really just a whine about not being able to kill the tengus since blitzing 5's in carriers kills the LP market more than anything.
Knawt Ongrid	Posted - 2011.06.03 01:57:00 - [38] Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? Amazing display of ignorance. But I guess it is as it has always been . . working as intended. If you want to play pve in this game you should just train Caldari and "passive" shield skills (a very stupid game concept btw, what is a shield but energy, which takes no energy to run) Oh and missiles also, because the new AI loves to ignore missiles while drones get murdered in no time. Great game balance you as a dev have created and don't see any problem with. Nerf the ****ing passive regen shield and missile supremacy and i may consider logging on more often. Yah I know, off topic post. But others have set you straight on waiting for no neut missions, speed tanking, etc. I'm just pointing out your other blind spot in seeing nothing wrong with only one race having the option to solo level 5s, and having significant advantages at lower levels of missions. oh and "passive armor tanking" That one made me laugh greatly. If only it were a possiblity. We might have more parity and thus diversity in the race of ships and toons for pve. About the only nice recent inadvertent development is that you managed to expose the stupidity of ecm to all the gurista chasing carebears (but damn they're fitting multiple eccm already to be unprobable )
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.03 02:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Zarkonas LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!! An unscannable setup can't run level 5 missions, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Go away.
Kerppe Krulli	Posted - 2011.06.03 02:04:00 - [40] So the entire subject of this thread is about 1 ship setup, the tengu. All other ships can be killed but because they can't easy gank a mission runner tengu they cry nerf?

Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.03 02:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Linas IV CCP is so much out of touch with their own game nowadays its terrible. Example A: Only accept missions without neut/web towers (about 40%) => Single unprobable Tengu works fine by speedtanking Example B: Use an unprobable Ceptor-alt to Speedtank the Missions => works always and is 100% save if you know what you do Example C: Use 2 or more Unprobable Tengus Remote-shieldboosting each other => works like a charm aswell since neuts always focus on 1 target (Example D: every lv5 missionhub has stations in every system => Refit for Covops to pass gates, because decloaking-cans on gates are a bannable offense by CCPs eula) (Example E: simply Jump the ships via carrier between systems, 100% save aswell) => A Lowsec missionrunner that knows what he needs to do is 100% Uncachable, period. Don't get me started how unprobable Ganglink T3s screw-up the small-gang PVP-balance..... Simply take Sensor strength as a logarythmic factor for Calculating the signature strength, not linaery => problem Fixed Have you done level V missions yourself ? I don't think so. There are only 2 or at most 3 level 5 missions, that don't have neuts. Usually there are neut-towers, that respawn if killed. Example A: about 40% is simply wrong. Also you need 3 ECCM for being completely unprobable (or 2 + lowslot or talon implants), which does not leave much room for tanking. Your examples, especially the ceptor taning, are ridiculous and won't work (no cap = no speed), also the remote-shieldrepping won't work without cap.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.03 02:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Simply take Sensor strength as a logarythmic factor for Calculating the signature strength, not linaery => problem Fixed Have you done level V missions yourself ? I don't think so. There are only 2 or at most 3 level 5 missions, that don't have neuts. Usually there are neut-towers, that respawn if killed. Example A: about 40% is simply wrong. Also you need 3 ECCM for being completely unprobable (or 2 + lowslot or talon implants), which does not leave much room for tanking. Your examples, especially the ceptor taning, are ridiculous and won't work (no cap = no speed), also the remote-shieldrepping won't work without cap. Meh, I know people that solo L5s in bombers. And yes I'm serious. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Last Tardfighter	Posted - 2011.06.03 02:44:00 - [43] Is it just me or has there been a steady increase of noobs crying for nerfs lately?
Shihari Otichoda	Posted - 2011.06.03 03:07:00 - [44] Originally by: Miilla BUT, it CAN be done. Hence my original statement about requiring a little bit more effort. They can't be probed out and warping around making bookmarks takes AGES, and that method won't get you in their mission unless it just happens to be inside the grid of planets AND on the same plane.
VaL Iscariot Caldari Natural Selection.	Posted - 2011.06.03 03:47:00 - [45] HAHAHAHAHA I LOVE THIS THREAD! FULL OF BEAR AND PIRATE TEARS!! OH MY GOD!! CCP, sticky this as the most tear filled thread in all of eve history! oh look at me i'm a prissy pirate that is to incompetent to catch this tengu thats running level 5's. He must be a bear because he's running missions and abusing an obvious exploit OMGEXPLOITIHAVETOWHINEONTHEFORUMSABOUTTHIS!!!! MY TOWER WILL NEVER NEED FUEL AGAIN!
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.03 04:00:00 - [46] Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? Three comments to your post Dropbear: - If they aren't doing L5s... do you think maybe they're doing L4s? Is it ok for people to do L4s in "risky space" with no actual risk? - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. - Tengus outnumber all other T3s by quite a significant margin. Why is this? -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.06.03 04:27:00 - [47] Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. That's the only hope I have. Are you specifically beating around the bush which is obviously the mere existence of unscannable ships in a game of this nature? Or are you just not aware that this could be an issue in the first place? -- Originally by: CCP Elais It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.03 04:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. Uhm... all at the same time? If so, can you post that fit? ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.03 04:33:00 - [49] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. Uhm... all at the same time? If so, can you post that fit? Yes, all at the same time. I'll evemail it to you. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Zombie Jeebus Amarr Alt Holdings llc	Posted - 2011.06.03 05:38:00 - [50] Edited by: Zombie Jeebus on 03/06/2011 05:42:14 Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? Dropbear is pretty much correct. I have yet to see an unprobable tengu fit that can solo a l5 except a few really easy missions ... I'm looking at you 'Lights Out' So the OP whine about all the people running L5s in them and ruining the lp market is pretty much baseless. As far as the rest... just stop crying.. you give the rest of us pirates a bad name by association This is not the alt you are looking for.

Speaker4 theDead	Posted - 2011.06.03 05:51:00 - [51] Heading translates as: "I want an easy mode"
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.06.03 06:15:00 - [52] Edited by: Sarmatiko on 03/06/2011 06:23:52 Originally by: CCP Dropbear An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? One answer - any stealth bomber can do most lvl 5 missions without any tank at all (only signature tank and speed). But there is always risk with bomber: you can de-cloak early on warp-in beacon, you can catch unlucky wrecking shot, you can miss npc tacklers, even pirates can scan you on the mission. Also properly fitted lvl 5 bomber may cost up to 500+ millions (you can also use trash fit ofc) so there is always risk. You can simply complete missions as: Lights Out Location Location Preaching to the Masses Rogue Spy Sansha on the Horizon Big Sting Cleaning House Cleansing Fire Breeding Facility and some other. Example Rogue Spy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fYed23ZB9Q And on the other side we have unscannable Tengu with better tank, speed, damage distance. Profit without risk. Not to say less - you can farm 4 lvl with closed eyes taking 12k lp for low-sec mission. Tengu is the only ship who can play this game , because other T3 will have **ty tank or dps/range with unprobable setup. So I'm definitely supporting OP's point of view. Unprobable ships should be nerfed or there should be huge boost for dedicated scanners (better virtue set bonus, new skills for combat scan**, greater bonus for combat scan probes)
Lei Fai	Posted - 2011.06.03 06:53:00 - [53] The real issue is regarding your failure as a pirate. If Carebares(horrible term btw i think anyone playing eve successfully has earned the right to not be called this) go through the trouble of making an unprobable ship, then they earned it. It is no different from the insta locking Arazu on the other side of the coin. What you need to do is stop chasing ONE TENGU, and go find other targets. Remember there are 30-40 thousand players online.
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.06.03 07:08:00 - [54] Originally by: Lei Fai What you need to do is stop chasing ONE TENGU, and go find other targets. Remember there are 30-40 thousand players online. Fix unprob and you will see the actual amount of Tengu's that will stay in low sec after this.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2011.06.03 07:21:00 - [55] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 03/06/2011 07:22:09 you people are forgetting about pirate implant sets that increase sensors, halo set and gang boosters that increase the sensors AND decrease sig. it's possible to get unscannable fit with only 1 ECCM and 1 low slot backup, but that involves a boosting loki alt (also unscannable). not talking about lvl5s but lvl4s probably can be easily done in low sec.. I just don't want to bother, since i can make almost as much in high sec without any risk. also, the looting/salvaging is not an option in low sec which means having to completely change my missioning style, eg i have to learn how to blitz every mission which i am too lazy to do...
Hori To Masuat'aa Matari	Posted - 2011.06.03 07:28:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? do you feel unprobable ships are a desired game-element? Don't be Zippy.
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.03 07:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Knawt Ongrid a very stupid game concept btw, what is a shield but energy, which takes no energy to run Facepalm. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Catheryn Martobi	Posted - 2011.06.03 07:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Hori To Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? do you feel unprobable ships are a desired game-element? I desire them.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2011.06.03 07:48:00 - [59] Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/06/2011 07:48:02 Originally by: Nemo deBlanc Originally by: Azelor Delaria Pirates: Nerf unscannable T3s so we can get some juicy kills in low sec! CCP: Okay. Two months later, no sexy ships to be killed, so pirates complain again because all they get are Drakes. This. A million times, this. They'll probably also complain about the rising cost of faction mods at the same time. CASE A: UNPROBABLE TENGUS Result: No tengu kills. CASE B: PROBABLE TENGUS Result: A Few Tengu Kills, then no Tengu Kills. Conclusion. A few tengu kills is better then none. (o)
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.06.03 09:57:00 - [60] Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 03/06/2011 09:57:13 I know quite a few unprobable Tengus were nailed by using remote sensorboosted ships with big alpha in null sec. There's always a way to catch something if you are determined enough! * Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge

Gibbo5771	Posted - 2011.06.03 10:18:00 - [61] ops an idiot, I have spent 40 days to get into a tengu, another 70+ for leadership skills.... thats nearly 1/3 of a year to get this ship, just to be unprobable with links...this game is all about dedication. I spent time to get this and so has a lot of other people. It helps my gang out, I can help myself out, its good for sitting in a safe when running c5 sites with less than needed numbers....I also have skirmish warfare spec and siege spec 5, so now I can fit gang links on my BC's when flying with a gang and help. Join the club or stfu. unprobable was ALWAYS THERE, why should CCP change it now because people are utilizing it the way its supposed to be?
Joss56 Gallente Unleashed' Fury	Posted - 2011.06.03 10:23:00 - [62] @OP Are you going to ask CCP to nerf linky alts making the snipe machariels (or other stuff alike) improbable too? Just to make sure you understand the mach above is shield tanked. Sign/S str, c'mon you can do it. ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Akcyali	Posted - 2011.06.03 10:30:00 - [63] Edited by: Akcyali on 03/06/2011 10:30:44 No nerfs because you cannot be unscannable and have dps+tank at the same time. It can only be used with warfare link /prob that's all.
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.06.03 10:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Gibbo5771 ops an idiot, I have spent 40 days to get into a tengu, another 70+ for leadership skills.... Only idiot in this thread is you so far. You talking about dedication? Ok, how about that - you need 170+ days to train perfect covert-ops scanner and you need to spend more than 2b for virtue set for what? Just to be totally unable to prob some noob who trained tengu in 40 days? What a nice piece of hypocrite crap we have here.
Chuc Morris	Posted - 2011.06.03 10:48:00 - [65] The only idiots I see is all the crykids about unscanable tengus. You're incapable to mine your low sec belts and/or afraid to do it yourself, but you blow even a shuttle to feed your ****ing stupid e-peen. You're incapable to run your lvl5 agents (about 2% low sec pop does?), however you cry about improbable tengus doing them, you can catch then with your well known undocking games, but it's too hard for idiots sure. You don't have to do more than a few jumps everywhere in low sec to find plex, however all the idiot crykids are incapable to do them or afraid to do so. Sure it's easyer to cry about improbable tengus than grow some balls and do the stuff yourself. What? I'm sure it's not the tengu who's going to shoot you if it sees you're already in that plex. Do you necessarily need to probe everything in the game when you have tons of ways to catch some guy, because if you want you can. You just want the thing easyer than already is, you don't want to have some work.
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.06.03 10:54:00 - [66] Edited by: Sarmatiko on 03/06/2011 10:55:26 ^^^sweet carebear tears) Dont cry about your hulk boy Anyway I'll just wait future whinefeast because nerf is inevitable http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509071&page=22#653
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.06.03 10:59:00 - [67] Edited by: Scarlet des Loupes on 03/06/2011 10:59:41 Originally by: Sarmatiko ^^^sweet carebear tears) Dont cry about your hulk boy Anyway I'll just wait future whinefeast because nerf is inevitable Yea they say a lot, we'll get bloodline changes, t3 frigates and customizable bars too. The question is: in any forseeable future?
Joss56 Gallente Unleashed' Fury	Posted - 2011.06.03 11:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Sarmatiko Edited by: Sarmatiko on 03/06/2011 10:55:26 ^^^sweet carebear tears) Dont cry about your hulk boy Anyway I'll just wait future whinefeast because nerf is inevitable http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509071&page=22#653 You make a good idiot, the loss is in high sec so what are you talking about? But I do like your tears. Gime moar pliz ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Allota VaISK	Posted - 2011.06.03 11:20:00 - [69] Main lives in nullsec next door to alot of lvl 4 Russian mission runners. Tengu is ofc their ship of choice, and while they cannot be probed out, their main vulnerability is when they have to travel 1-2 systems out, and invariably there is always a tengu kill on a killboard. If they are cloaky well... that makes their missions longer and after enough practise, its not so hard to decloak them... I am personally undecided whether there should or should not be unprobable ships.. On the one hand yes you can make a great deal of ISK in the right low/null sec systems with an unprobable tengu, then on the other you are still at risk during travel periods to-and from the mission area. If someone is determined enough, they'll get you - it might take a week but isn't that part of the fun putting thought into catching illusive (and lucrative) prey? What I am a bit negative about is gang boosting unprobable ships... but then what use is that when the boosted gang has been smashed to oblivion. There are - as people have mentioned - alternative methods to getting a tackle on an unprobable ship out in space away from any celestial, but it requires alot of time and patience and lets be honest, target pilot's stupidity and laziness. I do believe that if you have invested the huge time required to obtain maximum probing skills with implants, there should not be anything you cannot probe down; there cannot be many pilots with that skill set but having made that investment vs the xx days to train an unprobable tengu, I'd probably be a bit bitter too.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2011.06.03 11:24:00 - [70] Originally by: Kerppe Krulli So the entire subject of this thread is about 1 ship setup, the tengu. All other ships can be killed but because they can't easy gank a mission runner tengu they cry nerf? Yeah well, the Tengu in general is a bit of an unbalance where PVE is concerned.

Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.03 11:28:00 - [71] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/06/2011 11:31:49 Originally by: Mr Kidd Originally by: Kerppe Krulli So the entire subject of this thread is about 1 ship setup, the tengu. All other ships can be killed but because they can't easy gank a mission runner tengu they cry nerf? Yeah well, the Tengu in general is a bit of an unbalance where PVE is concerned. EVE is full with imbalances, illogicalities (is that a word?), unrealism, inconsistencies, silliness and such. Don't nerf my Tengu!!
Storm Shield	Posted - 2011.06.03 11:31:00 - [72] Sounds to me that there is too much of an influx of players from that other MMOPRG (The one that sounds like HOW? and made by that company that Blows Cold) who's player base are so used to getting things handed to them on a silver platter, gift wrapped, every time they whine (I take it you are an ex player, as the head of your Avatar looks like a block of cheese) instead of putting in some hard yards and maybe putting in a bit of effort to play the game properly. If someone chooses to sink their SP into Electronics to make your life harder, good luck to them. That means if you want to find them, you are going to NEED to train the skills needed to find them, and that is your main problem, other than having \|33+ gun skills and no brains. Maybe investing some SP into something better than Level 1 Astrometrics, so that you can EFFECTIVELY find them might help. Until you do that, they will keep on laughing at you. HAHAHAHAHA Wonders if he has the brains to work out the reference....Probably not, I better give it to him or he'll ask for my comments to get nerfed into readable English, in words of no more than 2 syllables and 4 letters ... *YOU WANT SOME CHEESE WITH THAT WHINE???*
Swynet	Posted - 2011.06.03 11:57:00 - [73] Originally by: Sarmatiko ^^^sweet carebear tears) Dont cry about your hulk boy Sure it's a very hard way to feed KB, gank hulks in high sec. So much work, you must need some rest days after all that work. I understand why you want tengu's nerfed now and I think I'm not the only one
Simian LeSinge SCUUURGE HEVY MISIL	Posted - 2011.06.03 12:23:00 - [74] Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? Soloing L5 in an unprobeable tengu is not viable. With two accounts it is relatively simple with a pair of heavy missile tengu, one RR fit and one capless resist fit. The only real problem is cap use of ECCM, which means that for the capless resist tengu to be truly unprobeable (vs a perfect implanted prober) the pilot requires an HG talon set. This is all beside the point, unprobeable T3 are far more commonly seen running L4s solo in npc null and lowsec (solo carriers are the usual L5 boat of choice in my experience). It is still entirely out of keeping with the risk/reward structure of Eve that it is possible to run 0.0/lowsec missions in a level of safety comparable to hisec. Scan strength should be entirely decoupled from sensor strength. It is a nonsense mechanic. Also it would be funny just to troll the guy who recently bought a Gravimetric Backup Array II BPO for 32B. C'mon CCP, I know you like to troll.
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.03 13:24:00 - [75] Could you not just scan down the wrecks? On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Redblade Reikoku Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.03 13:47:00 - [76] Originally by: Miilla BUT, it CAN be done. Hence my original statement about requiring a little bit more effort. Sure we can go back to busting safes that way, the system at place now was introduced after the removal of a reasonable way to find random safe spots with directional scanner aka dual MWD interceptors, so as soon as we get those back i see no problem with you argument.
Joe Skellington Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion	Posted - 2011.06.03 13:54:00 - [77] Edited by: Joe Skellington on 03/06/2011 13:55:27 Originally by: Chuc Morris The only idiots I see is all the crykids about unscanable tengus. You're incapable to mine your low sec belts and/or afraid to do it yourself, but you blow even a shuttle to feed your ****ing stupid e-peen. You're incapable to run your lvl5 agents (about 2% low sec pop does?), however you cry about improbable tengus doing them, you can catch then with your well known undocking games, but it's too hard for idiots sure. You don't have to do more than a few jumps everywhere in low sec to find plex, however all the idiot crykids are incapable to do them or afraid to do so. Sure it's easyer to cry about improbable tengus than grow some balls and do the stuff yourself. What? I'm sure it's not the tengu who's going to shoot you if it sees you're already in that plex. Do you necessarily need to probe everything in the game when you have tons of ways to catch some guy, because if you want you can. You just want the thing easyer than already is, you don't want to have some work. The more EVE becomes accessible and mainstream, the more it will attract WoW Kiddies from a dumbed down gaming industry, we now have the entitled ADHD kiddies with no imagination that want it dumbed down so they can have instant gratification and everything handed to them. It also seems evident that CCP is starting to dumb it down to compensate for this. How far will they go? Only time will tell.
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.03 13:59:00 - [78] I'm confused.... pirates have tears?
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:01:00 - [79] After paying the bill for one of these damned things, you've earned the right to not have bottom feeders crashing your missions at every opportunity.
fgft Athonille	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:06:00 - [80] this isn't a game of instances, remove unprobable ships it was an unintended consquence and should be removed. yes i ran missions in lowsec for year, the only missions i did run. well before t3s. never died. Originally by: Skippermonkey keep trying and you can be an hero just like fgft Athonille Originally by: Singeaboot Raj Tbh i am beginning to see the win - it's the haircut, makes people take notice.

Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:11:00 - [81] Originally by: Maverick2011 I'm confused.... pirates have tears? carepiratebears do. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:18:00 - [82] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Maverick2011 I'm confused.... pirates have tears? carepiratebears do. lol awesome signature
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:19:00 - [83] Originally by: VaL Iscariot my tear cup hath overfloweth. Catch him on gate. Cloakey freak you cry. Catch him on station. Insta undock. In a mission. Can't scan him. :cry: Sounds like the person you're chasing is being pretty damn smart about what they're doing. It also sounds like this Tengu pilot is used to living in low sec, where as you sound like a whiny *****. Go join some carebear high sec war dec corp and stop dumbing up my low sec. TL;DR Please, by all means, cry more. LOL Good Post, I luv it...
5nake pliskan Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:27:00 - [84] sigh you idiots make it sound like there's no drawback to rigging an unscannable SC whatsoever its a gimp boat, sure you have peace and quiet, but it takes twice as long to mission and you are farkin fresh bait when traveling. The unprobable is a specific fit and its about crap for much of anything else, how about not worrying about it so much and scanning down something else, last time I checked lokis and tengus were not the only mission boats out there. or is this about your inability to pad your killboard with t3 mission fit kills? is this one of those "waaah, I can't kill anyone in PVP so I need to be able to gank mission boats, and they must have to be T3!!!11!!" sort of things? ------------------------------------------------ There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers just exactly what the universe is for and why we are here, that it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. Then there is a theory which states that this has already happened. á á -Douglas Adams ------------------------------------------------
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. Uhm... all at the same time? If so, can you post that fit? Yes, all at the same time. I'll evemail it to you. EVE Mail it to me and I'll send you 50 Million ISK...
Ch'ianna	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:42:00 - [86] Learn to use directional, plus a dramiel. Get some patience. Kill plenty of Tengu's sat thinking they are 'safe'. Win. We've done it, so no 'It cant be done that way, it's too hard...waaah! waah!' responses please. Kthxbye. o/
Tammarr	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:48:00 - [87] Been seeing alot less tengus running lowsec missions, thats not pirates making buck, after the highsec income boost. But yeah, switch subsys, travel gates, refit for unprobable and about 650-700 dps tengu for the missioning. Works a charm. Sad I didnt train it while the extra lp in lowsec was worth anything.
Anddeh McNab Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2011.06.03 14:58:00 - [88] Originally by: Joss56 Are you going to ask CCP to nerf linky alts making the snipe machariels (or other stuff alike) improbable too? Just to make sure you understand the mach above is shield tanked. Sign/S str, c'mon you can do it. Fit please! --- There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:21:00 - [89] Being totally unprobable while being able to do normal activities and affect your surroundings is just bad game design. If you want total immunity, fit a cloak on your ship and use it. The balance is that you can't do anything while cloaked. Being unprobable by a non-specialized probing ship is fine. Fitting your ship to be hard to be probed out will provide increased security, but it shouldn't provide immunity to probing. When a fully skilled and implanted pilot with a probing ship that is fully rigged and using faction probes and launchers can't scan you down, that is just broken and I can't see any good reason why the ability is in the game in the first place. PS. Also @ people saying: "I paid lots of iskies and trained long for it, so I deserve my immunity". Balancing is not don by cost alone and the scanner propably invested just as much if not more, so surely he deserves to be able to probe you down just as much as you deserve to be immune from him.
Solli Crow	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:24:00 - [90] There is a lot of flaming going around this topic. So, I guess I will stick in my five cents as well. First of all, making tengu unscannable is fairly easy. Go to battleclinic's fits page and u can find it very quickly. Secondly, I'm seeing dozens of unscannable tengus around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula (quite a few level 5 agents there) but they don't fly alone. They work in group with their alts. The most popular combination is scimitar and tengu. Scimitar has a very low sig radius and it can't only shield boost tengu but also use remote eccm on tengu, which gives tengu opportunity to fit more gank.So, it's easy to make this combination to deliver good dps and yet, stay undetectable for probes!!! I saw other combinations with 3-4 tengus and two logics ships. Completely unscannable! Funny, thing u get into those mentioned above systems at any time in eve and u will get on scan those tengus but u will never gonna find them with your probes. Is it a problem though? I think yes. How do other people survive in low sec which is chaotic place by definition? 1) They learn to use cloak, onboard scanner, instant warp spots, deep safe spots, your mates to scout the gates. 2) You use diplomacy to negotiate blue standings with other corporations living in the same system. 3) U create mutual intel channels; All this stuff takes time, effort, energy. That what makes you feel at home. Now, what about unscannable ships that constantly run missions. What do u really need to do? Heh, read the post somewhere online that it is possible to create unscannable ship, train for it and just run missions day after day. You are absolutely safe. Just activate your remote eccm modules and fly safe! So, I'm asking u CCP what was the point of moving all level 5 into low sec??? Really? Well, yeah u sacrifice a bit of gank but u still have a piece of mind that nobody can find u. Running level 5 missions is part of my pirate life as well. But my ships are 100% scannable. How do I protect myself against attacks. I drop the container near warp in point to uncloak cloaky enemy and see how far away I'm from warp in spot. I watch d-scan all the time, I watch local all the time. I'm always alert! and that's how low sec supposed to be. Getting 100K LP within 15-20 minutes should be dangerous !!! and shouldn't feel like vacation !!! Every ship should stay vulnerable to some degree to various game mechanics. I don't see why tengu should be an exception. 100% unscannable is imbalance. Therefor, should be fixed! Ships that stay unscannable should be recons, blackops not regular pve tengu !!!

Solli Crow	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:35:00 - [91] Originally by: Ch'ianna Learn to use directional, plus a dramiel. Get some patience. Kill plenty of Tengu's sat thinking they are 'safe'. Win. We've done it, so no 'It cant be done that way, it's too hard...waaah! waah!' responses please. Kthxbye. o/ Ch'ianna I salute u, but what u talking about is located on straight line btween celestial objects. Now, probes is a bit different. Please, pay attention to the topic. Tengu running mission will most like never be on a straight line.
Rina Wright	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:39:00 - [92] Honestly, I see a lot of constructive arguments against unscannable tengu, reading them I'm getting a lot of confidence that it is indeed imbalance in game. The guys who what to keep it this way mostly shout about some 'tears' and stuff. Well, see random phrases like this are not convincing really. I vote for nerfing unscannable mechanics !!! Pheewww I read the entire post!
firepup82 Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:40:00 - [93] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 02/06/2011 22:03:44 Originally by: Zarkonas One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp. Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions. Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!! ECCM modules Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized. They get stack penelties. 1st mod: c(1) = 100,000% effectiveness 2nd mod: c(2) = 86,9119842% 3rd mod: c(3) = 57,1037996% 4th mod: c(4) = 28,2469117% 5th mod: c(5) = 10,5988834% 6th mod: c(6) = 2,9989473% 7th mod: c(7) = 0,5134081% 8th mod: c(8) = 0,2106917% You can scan them down, just takes more effort, which you don't seem to want to do. Have you tried Sisters Probes and Launchers? Rigs? Hard Wires? Scan bonused ships? Have you tried the DIRECTIONAL scanner? Tried a fleet of people with the directional? Have you tried drinking Quafe Zero? Congratulations, capsuleer! You have been selected to receive a free limited batch of Quafe Zero, the performance drink with the powers of a booster! Enjoy the benefits of increased reflexes with none of the drawbacks! Benefits: +5% Speed, +5% Scan Resolution. Duration: 1 hour. Attached Ad Copy As a capsuleer, you are immortal. You have all eternity to seize your destiny. ShouldnÆt you have a soft drink that can perform as well as you? Quafe thinks so. ThatÆs why weÆve developed Quafe Zero. Using the latest in cutting edge biotechnology, our industry-leading scientists have reverse-engineered Quafe Zero from compounds found only in Sleeper vessels. Quafe Zero is fortified with a proprietary mix of performance enhancers, oxidizers, and natural fruit juices designed to push your abilities to the limit. The secret is in our patented fulleroferrocene nanite delivery system, which attaches our exclusive pro-capsuleer formula directly to the neurons you want, not the ones you donÆt. The result is an immediate and direct boost to your performance, with Zero drawbacks! Quafe Zero is a product of the Quafe Company. Quafe does not condone the use of boosters or other illicit substances. The Quafe Company disavows responsibility for any side effects caused by consuming Sleeper technology. Warning: Quafe Zero is designed for capsuleer use only. Side effects experienced by non-capsuleers include but are not limited to dizziness, blindness, nausea, internal hemorrhaging, IBS, sleepwalking, amnesia, sexual deviancy, vision changes, acute epidermal sloughing, partial or total loss of motor control, and minor skin rash. Quafe Zero is manufactured in the Phoenix constellation. Quafe Zero: Multiply your eternity by Zero! just to keep things factually correct, 1 - it is possible to have completely unscannable ships (i.e., no amount of effort will find them) 2 - quake zero's scan bonus does not impact probe strength. it impacts locking time.
Solli Crow	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:41:00 - [94] There is a lot of flaming going around this topic. So, I guess I will stick in my five cents as well. First of all, making tengu unscannable is fairly easy. Go to battleclinic's fits page and u can find it very quickly. Secondly, I'm seeing dozens of unscannable tengus around Otsasai, Hakonen, Nalvula (quite a few level 5 agents there) but they don't fly alone. They work in group with their alts. The most popular combination is scimitar and tengu. Scimitar has a very low sig radius and it can't only shield boost tengu but also use remote eccm on tengu, which gives tengu opportunity to fit more gank.So, it's easy to make this combination to deliver good dps and yet, stay undetectable for probes!!! I saw other combinations with 3-4 tengus and two logics ships. Completely unscannable! Funny, thing u get into those mentioned above systems at any time in eve and u will get on scan those tengus but u will never gonna find them with your probes. Is it a problem though? I think yes. How do other people survive in low sec which is chaotic place by definition? 1) They learn to use cloak, onboard scanner, instant warp spots, deep safe spots, your mates to scout the gates. 2) You use diplomacy to negotiate blue standings with other corporations living in the same system. 3) U create mutual intel channels; All this stuff takes time, effort, energy. That what makes you feel at home. Now, what about unscannable ships that constantly run missions. What do u really need to do? Heh, read the post somewhere online that it is possible to create unscannable ship, train for it and just run missions day after day. You are absolutely safe. Just activate your remote eccm modules and fly safe! So, I'm asking u CCP what was the point of moving all level 5 into low sec??? Really? Well, yeah u sacrifice a bit of gank but u still have a piece of mind that nobody can find u. Running level 5 missions is part of my pirate life as well. But my ships are 100% scannable. How do I protect myself against attacks. I drop the container near warp in point to uncloak cloaky enemy and see how far away I'm from warp in spot. I watch d-scan all the time, I watch local all the time. I'm always alert! and that's how low sec supposed to be. Getting 100K LP within 15-20 minutes should be dangerous !!! and shouldn't feel like vacation !!! Every ship should stay vulnerable to some degree to various game mechanics. I don't see why tengu should be an exception. 100% unscannable is imbalance. Therefor, should be fixed! Ships that stay unscannable should be recons, blackops not regular pve tengu !!!
Borun Tal Minmatar Just Abide	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:46:00 - [95] Hey, OP, what the hell do you care? Did someone pee in your Wheaties, you charge off to gank them, and get ****ed cuz they're unscannable? Of the stunningly SMALL number of unscannable Tengu's in this game, you pick THAT to focus on? Seriously? You need to log off and get a life, stat.
Pharos Pharos	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:48:00 - [96] Though it does take some time it's perfectly possible to find missioning tengus that are no on the celestial plane - you just need to have premade bookmarks of your own to help. Additionally, the 'deadspace' surrounding most missions means you don't need to get nearly as close, which saves a lot of time. (Once you get close enough (>10kk) warping to the character will land the second character on the entrance to the deadspace area)
Solli Crow	Posted - 2011.06.03 15:54:00 - [97] Edited by: Solli Crow on 03/06/2011 15:55:00 Originally by: Pharos Pharos Though it does take some time it's perfectly possible to find missioning tengus that are no on the celestial plane - you just need to have premade bookmarks of your own to help. Additionally, the 'deadspace' surrounding most missions means you don't need to get nearly as close, which saves a lot of time. (Once you get close enough (>10kk) warping to the character will land the second character on the entrance to the deadspace area) hmmm, interesting thought, but that means having a lot of bookmarks of your own, a big amount of luck and still takes time. On average blitz missions take 10-20 minutes. Highly, unlikely to find them within this time. But still it doesn't solve the issue with probes but good idea!
daddys helper	Posted - 2011.06.03 16:22:00 - [98] should I bother to point out that SCs are not the only ships you can make unscannable? all you have to do is get your sensor strength 1.8% higher than your sig radius (or something like that) to be unscannable in any ship (skills and slots allowing)
Jayaka	Posted - 2011.06.03 17:03:00 - [99] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. Uhm... all at the same time? If so, can you post that fit? Yes, all at the same time. I'll evemail it to you. Can you evemail that to me too? (Or just post it here.) I'd be very curious to see that.
Cyrus Doul E0 Corp	Posted - 2011.06.03 17:14:00 - [100] Originally by: Jayaka Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. Uhm... all at the same time? If so, can you post that fit? Yes, all at the same time. I'll evemail it to you. Can you evemail that to me too? (Or just post it here.) I'd be very curious to see that. ^^ This Thanks

Katellin	Posted - 2011.06.03 18:39:00 - [101] Originally by: Jayaka Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. Uhm... all at the same time? If so, can you post that fit? Yes, all at the same time. I'll evemail it to you. Can you evemail that to me too? (Or just post it here.) I'd be very curious to see that. Ditto please, curious to see the fit.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat	Posted - 2011.06.03 19:06:00 - [102] Covert Ops, Recons, and even the Macherial can be un-probe-able too.
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.06.03 19:17:00 - [103] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Covert Ops, Recons, and even the Macherial can be un-probe-able too. And how many missions you can farm on covert ops or recon? None?
Saska Samar Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.03 19:25:00 - [104] Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. How can a Tengu with a MWD be unscannable?
DesertFox1940 Caldari Polly want a cracker Illuminati.	Posted - 2011.06.03 19:51:00 - [105] Edited by: DesertFox1940 on 03/06/2011 19:51:43 Hey YEA! CCP, While you're at it you should Nerf Every Caldar--Scratch that EVERY SHIP IN THE GAME, And Then Buff up the Ibis.
Zahira Wrath Amarr Dominion Strategic	Posted - 2011.06.03 20:07:00 - [106] Originally by: Solli Crow They work in group with their alts. The most popular combination is scimitar and tengu. So probe down the Scimitar instead? (Yikes this thread is full of stupidity.)
Tammarr	Posted - 2011.06.03 20:10:00 - [107] Originally by: Zahira Wrath Originally by: Solli Crow They work in group with their alts. The most popular combination is scimitar and tengu. So probe down the Scimitar instead? (Yikes this thread is full of stupidity.) Some people... It dosent have to be shiny t3 to be unprobable. a scimi(any logi?) just need two eccms thanks their low signature to be unprobable.
Servilia Junii	Posted - 2011.06.03 20:16:00 - [108] Originally by: Saska Samar Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. How can a Tengu with a MWD be unscannable? WINNING!
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2011.06.03 20:46:00 - [109] nerf angel ships too cos they are so quick they can just avoid pvp same like unprobeable. And nerf titan so it can't bridge at a deathstar with only a nipple outside pos to avoid pvp. etc etc
Domania Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2011.06.03 20:51:00 - [110] Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. -Liang You would be right, if you weren't so WRONG!

stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.03 21:04:00 - [111] Originally by: Saska Samar Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. How can a Tengu with a MWD be unscannable? Next question: How do you project DPS while cloaked!?! I'm thinking the MWD+Cloak is to get through gates safely(-ish) on the way to the mission. Not for the actual mission running. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Magaskaweel	Posted - 2011.06.03 21:33:00 - [112] Originally by: Katellin - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. Would you be so kind to evemail the fit to me too? I'd like to have a peek. thanks in advance.
Solli Crow	Posted - 2011.06.03 23:11:00 - [113] who cares about the fit. Point is: ship is completely invulnerable to probes. I accept the fact that there can exist ships that are difficult to find but I can't agree with statement that there are freaking pve or team bonus boosting ships that are impossible to probe. If u pimp up your tengu with bunch of imps and such to reduce chance to be found. i would like to have the same opportunity to do with my buzzard. But at this point no matter how much money and effort I put into training my buzzard pilot. I have absolutely no chance to find those suckers. It's not fair. What's the point of freaking probing ship then ??? why do you have to be absolutely God like with your unscannable tengu? :-) This feature -> being unscannable through the use of ECCM should be nerfed !!!
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.06.03 23:13:00 - [114] Originally by: Domania Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. -Liang You would be right, if you weren't so WRONG! You're right. I was skimping on the omnitank... it's much closer to 400. ;-) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
Tiny Mongo	Posted - 2011.06.04 02:18:00 - [115] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Domania Originally by: Liang Nuren - An unscannable Tengu is capable of having a MWD, a cloak, 750+ DPS out to 110km, good to great damage projection, a 350+ DPS omnitank, a 4 second align time, and go almost 2km/s. -Liang You would be right, if you weren't so WRONG! You're right. I was skimping on the omnitank... it's much closer to 400. ;-) -Liang I really don't care about the tank - how are you able to get 150+ dps out of a single HML on your unprobable Tengu? As to the OP, the Tengu has to jump at some point - catch him on a gate. If he/she is running missions as frequently as you think it won't be hard to find its mission hub. Once you locate the mission hub grab some friends and camp the snot out of it. With a decent gang it shouldn't be too hard after all I've seen remote sebo'd maelstroms alpha ceptor pilots who have near insta's. On an aside this is the same argument people make about supers as well. It really comes down to two sides A) I want to be able to gank everything in sight even if the ship costs 10x or more than my ship/gang or B) I paid a fortune for this capability stfu and join our club.
Dez Affinity Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.06.04 02:40:00 - [116] wah wah wah I can't kill everything in the system I'm in, this is unfair, make it so I can wah wah wah _______________
Rina Wright	Posted - 2011.06.04 09:04:00 - [117] Mechanism of being completely unscannable through the use of ECCM modules should be nerfed !!!
Rina Wright	Posted - 2011.06.04 09:10:00 - [118] All of you who is crying:"Catch my ship at the gate", "Catch my ship when I try to dock", "Catch my ship when I sleep", "Catch my ship when I ****" are all pretty stupid I must say. Nobody wants to nerf tengu or any other ship. What the opponents of this feature saying is "nerf the mechanism of using ECCM to be C-0-M-P-L-E-T-E-L-Y UNSCANNABLE" If u pimp up your freaking regular ship to be completely unscannable why can't I pimp up my buzzard to be able to find u !!! There are too many people in game who are annoyed by this !!! We will win!!! we will make this feature nerfed!!!
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 09:22:00 - [119] Originally by: Rina Wright There are too many people in game who are annoyed by this !!! We will win!!! we will make this feature nerfed!!! Unless CCP designed it this way from the start, and people are only now starting to catch on, in which case it is WAI and you all who don't like it are SOL. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Rina Wright	Posted - 2011.06.04 09:29:00 - [120] Falcon was designed to stand at 220KM from the fight and jam the **** out of everyone. It was designed like this by CCP. The distance got nerfed !!! Being unscannable will get nerfed too!!!

Solli Crow	Posted - 2011.06.04 09:37:00 - [121] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1509071&page=22#653 Nerfing is inevitable !!!
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 10:23:00 - [122] The irony is that people who are finding it difficult to catch missions tengus are crying about easy mode. This isn't about easy mode, it is about who gets to fly on easy mode. Be careful what you wish for, they may just nerf the ratio of sensor strength to sig radius. Tengu pilots then just drop the MWD and then back to square one to those of you dissatisfied with the low hanging fruit. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:09:00 - [123] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium The irony is that people who are finding it difficult to catch missions tengus are crying about easy mode. This isn't about easy mode, it is about who gets to fly on easy mode. Be careful what you wish for, they may just nerf the ratio of sensor strength to sig radius. Tengu pilots then just drop the MWD and then back to square one to those of you dissatisfied with the low hanging fruit. Uhm... so how would that change anything? Correct me if needed but Tengus with active mwd aren't unscannable in the first place. And on the other hand a Tengu without any mwd is just the same as a Tengu that doesn't have mwd active. So as far as I can tell what you just said makes no sense. -- Originally by: CCP Elais It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:20:00 - [124] Edited by: Ghoest on 04/06/2011 11:20:09 Originally by: Zarkonas I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. I Youre an ----- if anything in a video game shocks you. 2 Youre full of --- 3 If a ship wants to gimp itself by getting rid of 3 module slots essentially - who cares. And I dont have an unscannable Tengu. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:35:00 - [125] Originally by: Solli Crow So, I'm asking u CCP what was the point of moving all level 5 into low sec??? Really? Well, yeah u sacrifice a bit of gank but u still have a piece of mind that nobody can find u. The point of it was to feed scumcrap liking instant gratification with no effort, it worked. You have lvl5 stuff and no one other than locals with cap stuff doing them time to time. Great you've got moar target babe... No you haven't, you fail You have Anoms and Plex but don't run them because it's "silly stuff", however they want CCP to maintain those and their quality so that brings moar targets... It doesn't, you fail once again. lvl5 missions, cry here cry there and still crying to bring lvl4 missions to low sec, they don't do them because kill npc's is silly stuff, but they want them in low sec to bring moar targets. It doesn't, you fail once again. Then, cry here cry there because people enjoying mission activities don't come to low sec and to have their epeen stuff they have to create alt corps in high sec to grief high sec players while the pos is mining moon stuff in 0.3 and <, no big alliance wants those so... Fail. Do you ever think you'll get more targets because they will be able to probe them? -not a second, those using them will just not do those missions or you're really stupid to believe it, at better you'll catch a pair of them because they're too lazy to read patch notes. Once again you fail, and once again CCP fails even more than you listening to such arrogant selfish unsocial schizophrenics. I'm living in low sec for a moment now, I enjoy trying to catch those guys because there is always something with lag, bad click or whatever that will make him do the deadly mistake. But for the meanwhile he can win some isk so he can easily replace it when I'll blow it and he will be back again because he will enjoy playing the cat/rat since he has 1/10 to be caught, and the price tag of it's Tengus pixels if he gets caught will just be some detail for him. It's fair to me.
achoura	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:42:00 - [126] Originally by: Swynet It's fair to me. What about nullifying i.e. making useless complete skill, ship, implant, module and production lines required for scanning? While it as a profession still works, if there isn't a chance of a hit, no matter how small, then there is no balance. It's just plain broken. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Swynet	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:43:00 - [127] Originally by: achoura Originally by: Swynet It's fair to me. What about nullifying i.e. making useless complete skill, ship, implant, module and production lines required for scanning? While it as a profession still works, if there isn't a chance of a hit, no matter how small, then there is no balance. It's just plain broken. It's low sec and how people made it who's broken, not the Tengu.
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 11:46:00 - [128] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium The irony is that people who are finding it difficult to catch missions tengus are crying about easy mode. This isn't about easy mode, it is about who gets to fly on easy mode. Be careful what you wish for, they may just nerf the ratio of sensor strength to sig radius. Tengu pilots then just drop the MWD and then back to square one to those of you dissatisfied with the low hanging fruit. Uhm... so how would that change anything? Correct me if needed but Tengus with active mwd aren't unscannable in the first place. And on the other hand a Tengu without any mwd is just the same as a Tengu that doesn't have mwd active. So as far as I can tell what you just said makes no sense. No your right, I don't know where my head is this morning. Hope it's on my shoulders. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Twistator	Posted - 2011.06.04 12:35:00 - [129] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 04/06/2011 11:47:55 Edit: But this is still about who gets to fly on easy mode. Sisters scan probes skills at five and a virtue set can overcome the improbable tengu. Ehm no .. The entire point of this thread is that even with all those things its still impossible to get a lock. Its mathematical impossible to scan down an unprobable ship even with perfect skills, rigged ship, sisters gear and implants.
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:06:00 - [130] I currently fly lvl5 missions in unprob tengu + basi team. No, you will not catch me at a gate, cause I have 4 pairs of those ships in the main 4 systems my agents send me to. Yes, you can catch me at the station. I have instas and use them if needed. But I have killed quite some ppl who used instas in my time. Directional scan will tell them how far away their insta is, setup there. If they cloak in warp, their choice to run mission with cloak on the ship. They are clever, they deserve to avoid your PVP fitted ship. If unprob is nerfed, I will sell those tengus again, as flying them in low sec would make no sense to me anymore. The number of tengu ganks u get from me stays the same. Zero. Having run some lvl5s now, I think a passive tanked moa + osprey support + bomber for damage will do the trick, too. Have fun ganking t1 cruisers... About being alert and using D-scan to see probes incoming... If they change the probing system in the way, that the prober has to manually activate his probe launcher every 5 seconds to keep all the probes in space alive, I am happy to click the D-Scan button every 5 seconds as well. Or just make this damn D-scan automatic, cycling every 5-10 seconds based on a skill, so I don't have to click it like mad while dealing with NPCs. (If pvp-centrics get their easy mode, I want my easy mode as well )

C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:14:00 - [131] And while we are at it... CCP please change probes in that way, that they automatically get lost when the scanning ship cloaks. We don't want to have unscannable ships that can actually do stuff, do we?
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:16:00 - [132] Originally by: Twistator Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 04/06/2011 11:47:55 Edit: But this is still about who gets to fly on easy mode. Sisters scan probes skills at five and a virtue set can overcome the improbable tengu. Ehm no .. The entire point of this thread is that even with all those things its still impossible to get a lock. Its mathematical impossible to scan down an unprobable ship even with perfect skills, rigged ship, sisters gear and implants. The numbers I'm looking at say it is, it is just difficult. Difficult is not impossible. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:26:00 - [133] Originally by: achoura What about nullifying i.e. making useless complete skill, ship, implant, module and production lines required for scanning? While it as a profession still works, if there isn't a chance of a hit, no matter how small, then there is no balance. It's not nullifying anything. Like you say, the profession still works. Moreover, that argument works both ways: why should scanning nullify the skill, ship, implant, modules and production lines required to be unprobable? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:29:00 - [134] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium The numbers I'm looking at say it is, it is just difficult. Difficult is not impossible. your numbers are wrong. Otherwise I would be down some Tengus by now. I have had some dedicated probe alts with sisters probes scanning for me (yes, I still D-Scan when I see known pirate alts in local, I am not lazy enough to stop being paranoid). If they had implants or not, I dunno. But they all gave up and somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig. If your math were right, I just got lucky for a long time :) ....
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:32:00 - [135] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat If they had implants or not, I dunno. My guess is all the complaints are from those who can't or won't spend the money on implants. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:35:00 - [136] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig You only need 93% if you compare them that way, actually. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:39:00 - [137] Edited by: C0mbat W0mbat on 04/06/2011 13:40:08 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig You only need 93% if you compare them that way, actually. oh... well, thanks. I like that I err on the safe side :) I still overload the ECCMs when painted by pesky angels http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1119841 there is a spreadsheet where u can reverse engineer the math and compare to yours, Halcyon
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:49:00 - [138] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat oh... well, thanks. I like that I err on the safe side :) Heh. It's mainly a matter of remembering the order of the factors and the direction of the "less than" sign. Everyone remembers that sigres sensor strength and 1.08 is involvedà somehow ù remembering how is the tricky part. My mnemonic is this: To be unprobable, the blip you make in space has to be smaller than some threshold value. The blip you make in space is ù as always ù your signature radius. For scanning purposes, that blip is reduced by your sensor strength. The threshold value is 1.08 Thus: SigRad / SensorStr < 1.08 makes you unprobable àor, if you like, SensorStr > SigRad / 1.08 ↔ SensorStr > SigRad + 0.93. àor SigRad < SensorStr + 1.08 ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 13:59:00 - [139] Originally by: Tippia math stuff reminds me how a friend called this game "Excel in space". And he meant the microsoft product, not the verb :)
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact	Posted - 2011.06.04 14:04:00 - [140] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat Edited by: C0mbat W0mbat on 04/06/2011 13:48:44 Edited by: C0mbat W0mbat on 04/06/2011 13:40:08 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat somewhere in this forum there is a thread with the correct math showing why it is not possible to get a 100% hit on a ship when the sensor strength is above 108% of ship sig You only need 93% if you compare them that way, actually. oh... well, thanks. I like that I err on the safe side :) I still overload the ECCMs when painted by pesky angels http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1119841 there is a spreadsheet where u can reverse engineer the math and compare to yours, Halcyon Or maybe it's not about the math at all, but you run SoE missions and want to sell those virtue sets I'd have to say that the spread sheet is worthless. Even when removing all bonus' to the target and giving the hunter all advantage it still says the tengu is unscanable. Which means the spread sheet is wrong or the improbable fit is superfluous and never mattered. As for selling virtue sets, no, but that isn't a bad idea. On the other hand has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? ________________________________________________ Huh?

Lydia Rhyme	Posted - 2011.06.04 14:34:00 - [141] As far as I'm concerned, if I'm eager to be an absolutely awesome character in scanning and invest freaking bunch of time in training those skills (those skills by the way are quite time consuming) + buying faction launcher and faction probes + putting in my head a set of implants for 2.5 bil to boost my chance to find somebody only to find out that there are actually quite a few ships that are flying around that are completely undetectable from my buzzard. Doesn't it ring a bell for all those folks who talk some irrelevant stuff??? Guys Eve online is awesome but it's not perfect !!! there are bunch of imperfection and imbalances. And the point is not to say oh if you nerf this then make sure you nerf that. This thread is about drawing attention to one of the imbalances. U wanna talk about some other stuff, create a different thread.
Jojin Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:43:00 - [142] I think the best suggestion thus far is to just make the building materials for the different T3 ships unique. Then, though the Tengu might be best for non-probed mission running, the cost will reflect it. In fact it would apply to help balancing all the T3 ships. Those racial versions which are seen as more effective will have a cost to reflect it. I mean if it costs and takes the same in parts to build a Yugo versus Ferrari who in the right mind would want the Yugo?
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:51:00 - [143] a GM told me in a petition that nothing is unprobable, even with my listed 130 sig with 155 eccm. i no longer make unproable setups.
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:55:00 - [144] Originally by: Jojin I think the best suggestion thus far is to just make the building materials for the different T3 ships unique. Then, though the Tengu might be best for non-probed mission running, the cost will reflect it. In fact it would apply to help balancing all the T3 ships. Those racial versions which are seen as more effective will have a cost to reflect it. I mean if it costs and takes the same in parts to build a Yugo versus Ferrari who in the right mind would want the Yugo? So you basically just say: If they paid through the nose for the ship, it is allowed to be unprobable... right? So where is the threshold? I am willing to pay this, just to keep harvesting pirate tears. But unfortunately, if the 800M for the tengu in its current state (incl the basilisk for running lvl 5) is not expensive enough, when will the l33t PVPers accept that the price tag rectifies the unprobability?
C0mbat W0mbat	Posted - 2011.06.04 15:57:00 - [145] Originally by: Dr Fighter a GM told me in a petition that nothing is unprobable, even with my listed 130 sig with 155 eccm. i no longer make unproable setups. You are not allowed to post GM replies. OK, you did not post the exact reply, but the level of knowledge shown there by the GM must be one reason why you are not allowed to post their replies. But from someone sitting in a polaris frig with godmode mods u may actually be probable
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.06.04 16:13:00 - [146] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat Originally by: Dr Fighter a GM told me in a petition that nothing is unprobable, even with my listed 130 sig with 155 eccm. i no longer make unproable setups. You are not allowed to post GM replies. OK, you did not post the exact reply, but the level of knowledge shown there by the GM must be one reason why you are not allowed to post their replies. But from someone sitting in a polaris frig with godmode mods u may actually be probable Actually thats the type of post that is frequently if not always allowed. The only thing he attributed to the GM was that "nothing is unprobable." Wherever you went - Here you are.
Jojin Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2011.06.04 16:23:00 - [147] Originally by: C0mbat W0mbat Originally by: Jojin I think the best suggestion thus far is to just make the building materials for the different T3 ships unique. Then, though the Tengu might be best for non-probed mission running, the cost will reflect it. In fact it would apply to help balancing all the T3 ships. Those racial versions which are seen as more effective will have a cost to reflect it. I mean if it costs and takes the same in parts to build a Yugo versus Ferrari who in the right mind would want the Yugo? So you basically just say: If they paid through the nose for the ship, it is allowed to be unprobable... right? So where is the threshold? I am willing to pay this, just to keep harvesting pirate tears. But unfortunately, if the 800M for the tengu in its current state (incl the basilisk for running lvl 5) is not expensive enough, when will the l33t PVPers accept that the price tag rectifies the unprobability? Basically, Yes. This thread is about nerfing the Tengu, a specific ship. Many ships can reach the state of being unprobable, however, those aren't efficient at the mission running. So if the cost (risk) is high enough, then people will be come more aggressive to get a kill and more paranoid to do missions with them. Now if you want to make another thread about removing the unprobable state that would be different.
Qalix	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:18:00 - [148] So, CCP Dropbear, do you have our backs vs. CCP Soundwave? Or is the unprobeable nerf happening no matter what? Just give us some information so we can make long term plans. That is one of the most aggravating things about this game. A game mechanic is introduced, people skill up and spend ISK, then the game mechanic is changed. I would not have bothered with creating an unprobeable tengu mission runner if unprobeable wasn't a possibility. That's one new account opened, money spent, time training spent, the cost of tengu and implants, etc etc. Its not nice to jerk the players around.
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:25:00 - [149] The ones that whine about unprobable mission runners are the ones that will whine about their probed down gang booster T3s when it gets nerfed.
Zeta Kalin Large Rodent Hunters	Posted - 2011.06.07 17:31:00 - [150] Originally by: Hauling Hal Edited by: Hauling Hal on 02/06/2011 22:44:11 This guy wasn't unscannable, but he was killed at a safe spot and we didn't use any probes to get him. Admittedly it took over an hour, but using the same technique you can find 'unscannable' ships. http://bops.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9625810 Nope, mission spot are usually well off plane, no amount of bookmarking in warp between your existing BMs/celestials can help you if he's far off any of the plane you can make enough. Too catch someone he must be inside a tetrahedron defined by exiting warpables, them being bookmarks or celestial. Even in a well mapped systems where you have dozens of bms or more, people are often outside that...

Wheelhaus	Posted - 2011.06.08 14:54:00 - [151] I am having a hard time with this argument. If everything needs "balance", then isn't the ability to scan down ANYTHING actually a little bit, well, unbalanced? This really sounds like some pirates asking for preferential treatment. "I saw a mission runner minding his own business, and I want to go ruin his day, now I can't! boohoo." There's plenty of other dangers in low/null besides being scanned down mid-mission. If only one or two specific ships are capable of having such high ECCM that they are impossible or nearly impossible to scan down, what's the big deal? If the fit required to achieve this is quite specific and gimps dps, tank, etc, then just leave them alone. Now if ANY ship could be made untraceable, it would require some pretty severe drawbacks to make it an undesirable fit, similar to how cloaks work. "Balance" is only accurate if you truly look at all sides of the argument. Just like a pirate will try very hard to trace someone down just to ruin their mission, this is someone trying very hard to remain untraceable. Considering all tactical options and fits, I think the "balance" should always be even, or very very slightly in the favor of the mission runner if they really know what they're doing. By it's nature, I don't think pirating should be easy, especially when mission jacking.
HoTwAfFeL	Posted - 2011.06.08 15:19:00 - [152] [Tengu, Unscannable] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Gravimetric Backup Array II Gravimetric Backup Array II ECCM - Gravimetric II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Booster II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II ECCM - Gravimetric II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst It wasn't that hard right? While this is a more gimped setup you can see stuff similiar to it in NPC 0.0 running lvl 4's all day long. Tengu easily tanks the missions and if you sacrifice more dps you can even laugh at bubbles(most people also do this). While it might take a while to get those missions done you are 99.9% safe. I've been places where theres Tengus missioning right next door all day long, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Zaara Arran	Posted - 2011.06.08 15:21:00 - [153] This thread has been active for over a week with six pages of replies. Not even ONE reply from a Dev. I'm going to assume their response is "Working as intended."
HoTwAfFeL	Posted - 2011.06.08 15:26:00 - [154] Originally by: Zaara Arran This thread has been active for over a week with six pages of replies. Not even ONE reply from a Dev. I'm going to assume their response is "Working as intended." You my friend, need to open your eyes.
Zaara Arran	Posted - 2011.06.08 15:33:00 - [155] Originally by: HoTwAfFeL Originally by: Zaara Arran This thread has been active for over a week with six pages of replies. Not even ONE reply from a Dev. I'm going to assume their response is "Working as intended." You my friend, need to open your eyes. I have now, good sir, and I see a hot waffle waiting for me. Yum.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.06.09 08:21:00 - [156] haven't seen this idea before. Maybe this is some kind of solution good for everyone? 1) Instead of percents use some kind of "radius of possible area where target is in". Minimum radius is size of signature of the ship you are scanning for. Now you don't need to scan-down target to 100% to warp to it. 2) When you warp to area you found you can enter to any point of it (random based). So if you found 100km area you can land on top of a target or 50km away (if target is not moving). 3) Scanning speed depends of your scanning skills/equipment/signature of target object. Then no more unscannable ships/objects but you still want to scan it as much as possible if you really want to catch it. Landing on 100km from something smaller than BS gives you near to 100% chances to loose it =) Plus you need to do it fast. Because if ship moves at 1km/sec speed you will find it many kilometers away. On the other hand you can scan it "not to 100% but good enough" and MWD to it.
Ruri Mizushisi	Posted - 2011.06.10 03:40:00 - [157] Edited by: Ruri Mizushisi on 10/06/2011 03:40:19 Originally by: Joe Skellington The more EVE becomes accessible and mainstream, the more it will attract WoW Kiddies from a dumbed down gaming industry, we now have the entitled ADHD kiddies with no imagination that want it dumbed down so they can have instant gratification and everything handed to them. Uh, hi, any particular reason why you feel the need to rag on people with ADHD? I'm not sure how a having a particular cognitive disability disqualifies someone from playing EVE as it is or ties in to entitlement, lack of imagination, or wanting EVE dumbed down.
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.10 04:07:00 - [158] Originally by: Qalix So, CCP Dropbear, do you have our backs vs. CCP Soundwave? Or is the unprobeable nerf happening no matter what? Just give us some information so we can make long term plans. That is one of the most aggravating things about this game. A game mechanic is introduced, people skill up and spend ISK, then the game mechanic is changed. I would not have bothered with creating an unprobeable tengu mission runner if unprobeable wasn't a possibility. That's one new account opened, money spent, time training spent, the cost of tengu and implants, etc etc. Its not nice to jerk the players around. CCP Dropbear has always appeared the sensible one within their little outfit. I hope he continues to be the voice of reason against more overtly pirate-oriented folks like CCP Soundwave. --
SciWolf	Posted - 2011.06.20 05:55:00 - [159] Edited by: SciWolf on 20/06/2011 06:01:33 First you all whine about dramiel = nerf... Now unscannable tengus... But keep in mind this would not be a tengu itself. All ships will never be unscannable for a long period of time. I think you whinnies are making eve a ****. A complete one. I've been killed numerous times in my unscannable tengu. It is possible to kill this ship. You've got no skill to do that? Practice more. There still are gates. Stations. Gangs and blobs. The reason you whine is you wanna have some easy money with no effort. Someone spends days on missions to get some modules to be able to solo complexes or missions or whatever... And you just want to scan em down... Pew-pew... PROFIT. But this ship costs tons of money. The investments have to repay themselves. And considering that these ships still are killed and all killboards have them listed I guess all your whine is all about "omfg I want his modules so much"... Nerfing this would make eve less interesting. Just like nerf of the dramiel. There were tons of kb kills but your whine made this ship worse. And I've killed many drams and was killed by many. It all was fair. But now it's less interesting ;)
Swynet State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.20 06:11:00 - [160] Originally by: HoTwAfFeL As an attacker you have NO way of effectively denyieng them to access to their missions in nullsec, You lie terribly bad or your are just lazy/silly?- maybe both Yes the chances to get him are really small but any ship at this level should be it so. But tiny doesn't means you can't get it, you just have to work for it but you don't want to. You're probably one of those asking lvl4 missions going to low sec while you'll never run a single one has you don't for any lvl5, also asking the button to get insta +10SS, I got it right?

Magicblue Amarr Hunters of capsuleers	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:47:00 - [161] While you're at it lets nerf carriers so they can only have one drone and titans so they can't use doomsday devices or weapons at all. They should only be passive/active shield/armor tanks depending on which one. They should also only have one slot for low and 2 for medium. Besides their size should be nerfed as they block my screen when i am behind one in a frigate and their damage taken from frigates should be increased by 10 000%... Seriously, stop crying nerf. Try getting improvements instead of nerfs. If the tengus are nerfed their price will decrease, this will in turn cause a ripple effect through the market, it will change the game as we know it and perhaps at one point we will end up having drakes without shields Improvements is the way foreward, nerfing is straight back and through the wall...
SciWolf	Posted - 2011.06.21 17:57:00 - [162] THANK YOU ALMIGHTY WHINERS! YOU GOT IT. NO UNSCANNABLE SHIPS ANYMORE!
SciWolf	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:04:00 - [163] Wow! Thank you whinnies, now you've got what you wanted! No monre unscannable ships in the game. And i know the next nerf!!! "ccp please fix it so ONLY covert OR interdiction nullifer can be fitted at the same time." Go on make this game for babies please!
froggy boy	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:29:00 - [164] if the tengu is doing missions then even if you can't scan it you should see a large number of npc rats from the mission you just found your ship without having to scan it
P42ALPHA Gallente DeadOn.	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:47:00 - [165] So what probly happened, a tengu came in system, warped to a safe with ECCM, trolled the crap out of local. While some noobs tried to probe him down. Effect of the troll. Op thinks that these Tengu's are running lvl 5 missions non stop, and after being all excited about getting a Tengu kill he was rejected. Now using his information gathered by other trolls on the forums. He assumes these Tengu pilots not only are making bank, but are ruining the lp market. On a side not, think that was the best Dev-curb stomp in mmo history. LOL well played good sir.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.06.21 18:53:00 - [166] Originally by: SciWolf THANK YOU ALMIGHTY WHINERS! YOU GOT IT. NO UNSCANNABLE SHIPS ANYMORE! You sound butthurt. And you're whining. HTFU -- Originally by: CCP Elais It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
Captain Zone	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:37:00 - [167] My solution with my Tengu is not to make it "unscannable" with ECCM mods, but simply to fit a CovOps cloak and warp out during missions in lowsec, since I watch DScan like a hawk. As soon as I see Combat scanners. I warp to a safe spot and cloak. No muss, no fuss. Has saved me on several expeditions in lowsec. So quite honestly, this "nerf" doesn't affect me.
spongebobbb Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.21 19:59:00 - [168] Originally by: VaL Iscariot HAHAHAHAHA I LOVE THIS THREAD! FULL OF BEAR AND PIRATE TEARS!! OH MY GOD!! CCP, sticky this as the most tear filled thread in all of eve history! no i think the most tear filled one will be wheen they get nerfed, bears cry 10X harder than pies
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:00:00 - [169] Yea agreed nerf tengus nerf 'em good !!1 btw what is Tengu? ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.06.21 20:07:00 - [170] Originally by: spongebobbb Originally by: VaL Iscariot HAHAHAHAHA I LOVE THIS THREAD! FULL OF BEAR AND PIRATE TEARS!! OH MY GOD!! CCP, sticky this as the most tear filled thread in all of eve history! no i think the most tear filled one will be wheen they get nerfed, bears cry 10X harder than pies I'm not so sure most of the so called pies that make most noise on these forums aren't capable of much more than easy ganks against ppl who wouldn't know how to fight back if they tried. * Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2011.06.22 08:28:00 - [171] Originally by: Zarkonas One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp. Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions. Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!! I have only one comment for you, it's very detailed: ** Off. "Non-scannable" ships are perfectly balanced. oh and go cry me a river! Later, nub! PS: Lame characters farming plexes in low sec are OP, nerf those instead :P PPS: Using the argument that LP stores are getting worthless to nerf "un-scannable" ships is **ed. Maybe you should try stealing your neighbors kids candy instead. PPPS: Did i mention ** off?
Jon Whayne	Posted - 2011.06.22 08:52:00 - [172] Does anyone here has any idea how this change worked out? How hard is a pre-incarna 'unscannable' Tengu fitting to scan down now? I mean, you can now use the full number of scanprobes to get it. Is this change really that heavy or is it - in any circumstance - still damn hard to get you scanned down? Anyone did tests on this?
Giselle Garner	Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 - [173] Edited by: Giselle Garner on 26/06/2011 20:44:51 Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused. An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions. Tell me what I'm missing here: (All?) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's. This may be the part I'm missing... In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable). That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units). So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently? Obviously, your job mates are smarter than you: Scanning òIt is no longer possible to set up a ship to be impervious to scanning while uncloaked. òAll probes can now contribute to a scan result, as opposed to the previous limit of four. New from Incarna http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp And as a cheap and better approach to get it: - Enter with Nighthawk - Have luck to not be scanned down (the old risk) - Destroy neuts - Enter with unscannable Tengu and finish clearing the room. However, i'm not too much worried about this matter. They need to be good scanners


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BUT, it CAN be done. Hence my original statement about requiring a little bit more effort.

BUT, it CAN be done. Hence my original statement about requiring a little bit more effort.