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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Wheelhaus
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Posted - 2011.06.08 14:54:00 -
[151]
I am having a hard time with this argument. If everything needs "balance", then isn't the ability to scan down ANYTHING actually a little bit, well, unbalanced? This really sounds like some pirates asking for preferential treatment. "I saw a mission runner minding his own business, and I want to go ruin his day, now I can't! boohoo."
There's plenty of other dangers in low/null besides being scanned down mid-mission.
If only one or two specific ships are capable of having such high ECCM that they are impossible or nearly impossible to scan down, what's the big deal? If the fit required to achieve this is quite specific and gimps dps, tank, etc, then just leave them alone.
Now if ANY ship could be made untraceable, it would require some pretty severe drawbacks to make it an undesirable fit, similar to how cloaks work.
"Balance" is only accurate if you truly look at all sides of the argument. Just like a pirate will try very hard to trace someone down just to ruin their mission, this is someone trying very hard to remain untraceable. Considering all tactical options and fits, I think the "balance" should always be even, or very very slightly in the favor of the mission runner if they really know what they're doing. By it's nature, I don't think pirating should be easy, especially when mission jacking.
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HoTwAfFeL
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:19:00 -
[152]
[Tengu, Unscannable] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Gravimetric Backup Array II Gravimetric Backup Array II
ECCM - Gravimetric II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Booster II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II ECCM - Gravimetric II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
It wasn't that hard right? While this is a more gimped setup you can see stuff similiar to it in NPC 0.0 running lvl 4's all day long. Tengu easily tanks the missions and if you sacrifice more dps you can even laugh at bubbles(most people also do this). While it might take a while to get those missions done you are 99.9% safe. I've been places where theres Tengus missioning right next door all day long, and there is nothing you can do about it.
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Zaara Arran
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:21:00 -
[153]
This thread has been active for over a week with six pages of replies.
Not even ONE reply from a Dev.
I'm going to assume their response is "Working as intended."
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HoTwAfFeL
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:26:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Zaara Arran This thread has been active for over a week with six pages of replies.
Not even ONE reply from a Dev.
I'm going to assume their response is "Working as intended."
You my friend, need to open your eyes.
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Zaara Arran
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Posted - 2011.06.08 15:33:00 -
[155]
Originally by: HoTwAfFeL
Originally by: Zaara Arran This thread has been active for over a week with six pages of replies.
Not even ONE reply from a Dev.
I'm going to assume their response is "Working as intended."
You my friend, need to open your eyes.
I have now, good sir, and I see a hot waffle waiting for me.
Yum.
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.06.09 08:21:00 -
[156]
haven't seen this idea before. Maybe this is some kind of solution good for everyone?
1) Instead of percents use some kind of "radius of possible area where target is in". Minimum radius is size of signature of the ship you are scanning for. Now you don't need to scan-down target to 100% to warp to it. 2) When you warp to area you found you can enter to any point of it (random based). So if you found 100km area you can land on top of a target or 50km away (if target is not moving). 3) Scanning speed depends of your scanning skills/equipment/signature of target object.
Then no more unscannable ships/objects but you still want to scan it as much as possible if you really want to catch it. Landing on 100km from something smaller than BS gives you near to 100% chances to loose it =) Plus you need to do it fast. Because if ship moves at 1km/sec speed you will find it many kilometers away.
On the other hand you can scan it "not to 100% but good enough" and MWD to it.
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Ruri Mizushisi
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Posted - 2011.06.10 03:40:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Ruri Mizushisi on 10/06/2011 03:40:19
Originally by: Joe Skellington The more EVE becomes accessible and mainstream, the more it will attract WoW Kiddies from a dumbed down gaming industry, we now have the entitled ADHD kiddies with no imagination that want it dumbed down so they can have instant gratification and everything handed to them.
Uh, hi, any particular reason why you feel the need to rag on people with ADHD? I'm not sure how a having a particular cognitive disability disqualifies someone from playing EVE as it is or ties in to entitlement, lack of imagination, or wanting EVE dumbed down.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.10 04:07:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Qalix So, CCP Dropbear, do you have our backs vs. CCP Soundwave? Or is the unprobeable nerf happening no matter what? Just give us some information so we can make long term plans. That is one of the most aggravating things about this game. A game mechanic is introduced, people skill up and spend ISK, then the game mechanic is changed. I would not have bothered with creating an unprobeable tengu mission runner if unprobeable wasn't a possibility. That's one new account opened, money spent, time training spent, the cost of tengu and implants, etc etc. Its not nice to jerk the players around.
CCP Dropbear has always appeared the sensible one within their little outfit. I hope he continues to be the voice of reason against more overtly pirate-oriented folks like CCP Soundwave. --
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SciWolf
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Posted - 2011.06.20 05:55:00 -
[159]
Edited by: SciWolf on 20/06/2011 06:01:33 First you all whine about dramiel = nerf... Now unscannable tengus... But keep in mind this would not be a tengu itself. All ships will never be unscannable for a long period of time. I think you whinnies are making eve a ****. A complete one. I've been killed numerous times in my unscannable tengu. It is possible to kill this ship. You've got no skill to do that? Practice more. There still are gates. Stations. Gangs and blobs.
The reason you whine is you wanna have some easy money with no effort. Someone spends days on missions to get some modules to be able to solo complexes or missions or whatever... And you just want to scan em down... Pew-pew... PROFIT.
But this ship costs tons of money. The investments have to repay themselves. And considering that these ships still are killed and all killboards have them listed I guess all your whine is all about "omfg I want his modules so much"...
Nerfing this would make eve less interesting. Just like nerf of the dramiel. There were tons of kb kills but your whine made this ship worse. And I've killed many drams and was killed by many. It all was fair. But now it's less interesting ;)
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Swynet
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.20 06:11:00 -
[160]
Originally by: HoTwAfFeL As an attacker you have NO way of effectively denyieng them to access to their missions in nullsec,
You lie terribly bad or your are just lazy/silly?- maybe both
Yes the chances to get him are really small but any ship at this level should be it so. But tiny doesn't means you can't get it, you just have to work for it but you don't want to.
You're probably one of those asking lvl4 missions going to low sec while you'll never run a single one has you don't for any lvl5, also asking the button to get insta +10SS, I got it right?
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Magicblue
Amarr Hunters of capsuleers
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:47:00 -
[161]
While you're at it lets nerf carriers so they can only have one drone and titans so they can't use doomsday devices or weapons at all. They should only be passive/active shield/armor tanks depending on which one. They should also only have one slot for low and 2 for medium. Besides their size should be nerfed as they block my screen when i am behind one in a frigate and their damage taken from frigates should be increased by 10 000%... Seriously, stop crying nerf. Try getting improvements instead of nerfs. If the tengus are nerfed their price will decrease, this will in turn cause a ripple effect through the market, it will change the game as we know it and perhaps at one point we will end up having drakes without shields
Improvements is the way foreward, nerfing is straight back and through the wall...
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SciWolf
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Posted - 2011.06.21 17:57:00 -
[162]
THANK YOU ALMIGHTY WHINERS!
YOU GOT IT. NO UNSCANNABLE SHIPS ANYMORE!
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SciWolf
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Posted - 2011.06.21 18:04:00 -
[163]
Wow! Thank you whinnies, now you've got what you wanted! No monre unscannable ships in the game.
And i know the next nerf!!!
"ccp please fix it so ONLY covert OR interdiction nullifer can be fitted at the same time." Go on make this game for babies please!
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froggy boy
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Posted - 2011.06.21 18:29:00 -
[164]
if the tengu is doing missions then even if you can't scan it you should see a large number of npc rats from the mission you just found your ship without having to scan it
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P42ALPHA
Gallente DeadOn.
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Posted - 2011.06.21 18:47:00 -
[165]
So what probly happened, a tengu came in system, warped to a safe with ECCM, trolled the crap out of local. While some noobs tried to probe him down.
Effect of the troll. Op thinks that these Tengu's are running lvl 5 missions non stop, and after being all excited about getting a Tengu kill he was rejected. Now using his information gathered by other trolls on the forums. He assumes these Tengu pilots not only are making bank, but are ruining the lp market.
On a side not, think that was the best Dev-curb stomp in mmo history. LOL well played good sir.
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.21 18:53:00 -
[166]
Originally by: SciWolf THANK YOU ALMIGHTY WHINERS!
YOU GOT IT. NO UNSCANNABLE SHIPS ANYMORE!
You sound butthurt. And you're whining. HTFU --
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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Captain Zone
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Posted - 2011.06.21 19:37:00 -
[167]
My solution with my Tengu is not to make it "unscannable" with ECCM mods, but simply to fit a CovOps cloak and warp out during missions in lowsec, since I watch DScan like a hawk. As soon as I see Combat scanners. I warp to a safe spot and cloak. No muss, no fuss. Has saved me on several expeditions in lowsec. So quite honestly, this "nerf" doesn't affect me.
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spongebobbb
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.21 19:59:00 -
[168]
Originally by: VaL Iscariot HAHAHAHAHA I LOVE THIS THREAD! FULL OF BEAR AND PIRATE TEARS!! OH MY GOD!! CCP, sticky this as the most tear filled thread in all of eve history!
no i think the most tear filled one will be wheen they get nerfed, bears cry 10X harder than pies
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.21 20:00:00 -
[169]
Yea agreed nerf tengus nerf 'em good !!1
btw what is Tengu? ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.21 20:07:00 -
[170]
Originally by: spongebobbb
Originally by: VaL Iscariot HAHAHAHAHA I LOVE THIS THREAD! FULL OF BEAR AND PIRATE TEARS!! OH MY GOD!! CCP, sticky this as the most tear filled thread in all of eve history!
no i think the most tear filled one will be wheen they get nerfed, bears cry 10X harder than pies
I'm not so sure most of the so called pies that make most noise on these forums aren't capable of much more than easy ganks against ppl who wouldn't know how to fight back if they tried.
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2011.06.22 08:28:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Zarkonas One thing when a player masterfully avoids attacks by creating instant warp spots, caring covert ops subsystem to get through the gate camp.
Another thing when player just put 3 ECCMs to be completely unscannable. I'm absolutely shocked how many unscannable ships are flying around. Low sec means danger in its definition. There is a reason for onboard scanner and probe filter. You feel safe in high sec, in low sec u need to be alert when doing missions.
Nerf it CCP, You drive plex prices up quite well, balance the freaking game so we can balance isk/lp ratio!!! LP shop with so many unscannable people running level 5 is becoming worthless !!! Plus being 100% unscannable is just wrong!!!
I have only one comment for you, it's very detailed: **** Off. "Non-scannable" ships are perfectly balanced.
oh and go cry me a river!
Later, nub! PS: Lame characters farming plexes in low sec are OP, nerf those instead :P PPS: Using the argument that LP stores are getting worthless to nerf "un-scannable" ships is ******ed. Maybe you should try stealing your neighbors kids candy instead. PPPS: Did i mention **** off?
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Jon Whayne
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Posted - 2011.06.22 08:52:00 -
[172]
Does anyone here has any idea how this change worked out? How hard is a pre-incarna 'unscannable' Tengu fitting to scan down now? I mean, you can now use the full number of scanprobes to get it. Is this change really that heavy or is it - in any circumstance - still damn hard to get you scanned down? Anyone did tests on this?
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 26/06/2011 20:44:51
Originally by: CCP Dropbear I'm confused.
An unprobable Tengu is fit in a pretty specific way, and has certain limitiations which, I would have thought, made it pretty useless for Level V missions.
Tell me what I'm missing here:
(All?*) Level V missions have energy neutralizing turrets that basically require you to either group up with logistics, or if solo, use a low/zero-cap tank - typically a passive shield buffer/recharge tank. This is why Nighthawks and Rattlesnakes (good passive shield tankers) are popular for V's.
* This may be the part I'm missing...
In order to be unscannable, a Tengu has to fit ECCM mods, and keep its signature low (because keeping your signature radius below a certain threshold is a crucial factor to being unscannable).
That means a passive shield tank is out, since you can't fit shield extenders (they boost your signature radius). So these Tengu are either active shield tanking (in missions that kill your capacitor?) or passive armor tanking (with like, zero DPS because hey, no Ballistic Control Units).
So what you're basically saying is that there are masses of Tengus out there, heavily gimped in terms of PvE optimization due to being unscannable, unable to passive shield tank...and they're not only somehow running Level V's, but apparently making a killing by doing them so efficiently?
Obviously, your job mates are smarter than you:
Scanning ņIt is no longer possible to set up a ship to be impervious to scanning while uncloaked. ņAll probes can now contribute to a scan result, as opposed to the previous limit of four.
New from Incarna http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
And as a cheap and better approach to get it: - Enter with Nighthawk - Have luck to not be scanned down (the old risk) - Destroy neuts - Enter with unscannable Tengu and finish clearing the room.
However, i'm not too much worried about this matter. They need to be good scanners
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