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Sphinxx
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Posted - 2003.07.03 04:42:00 -
[61]
"What is recusrivity? it's recusrive..."
Did you mean recursive?
And what the hell are you talkin about? Try speakin good old "american" not that mathmatical jargin... ahhaha
Lookin for a deal on Caldari ships and other goods??? Please visit our site and make an inquiry as to what it is that you need and when we can provide you with it! What can we do to earn your business today? Offer you the best service and prices around on anything we offer!
www.ebfrontieralliance.com |
D'ou
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Posted - 2003.07.03 07:07:00 -
[62]
I must agree, 20m/s is about as good as another flashing light on a minmatar cruiser. I'd say a minimum of 100m/s is needed to actually live up to being faster than other cruisers, and I mean minimum. 20m/s is barely anything if you are going to try, for instance, to cover enough ground (space?) to get close enough to shoot a smart rail user with your projectiles. By the time your 20m/s can get you close enough to fire effectively, you are as dead as you would be going 20m/s slower.
And to the one saying minmatar should just have terrible ships, you might as well condemn minmatar from being in game and remove them. They need to be balanced in one way or another because this is a competitive game. I repeat, key word here is GAME. Not some space drama/tragedy.
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Von Thoma
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Posted - 2003.07.03 08:17:00 -
[63]
Hi there,
I am playing strategic wargames since they are out on the computer and before I played boardgames (Advanced Squad Leader from Avalon Hill) you needed hours to build the stacks up and so on ...
so dev please don't call EVE strategic in this phase, but if you really want to go this way, I thank you and you are on the right way, still small steps but at least it changed from an action game, what it was now to a slower action game. WHY ... in my opinion distance, could be overcome too fast and too many shots ...
all this could be solved very easy ...
YES HALF the speed OF ALL SHIPS !!! at least maybe even make them only 33% of it ... BUT ALSO double OR triple the time you could shoot ... really that would be the NEXT step to a strategic game away from an action game.
SO NEXT WHAT YOU WILL HAVE IN YOUR GAME IS THAT you could even CHANGE Ammuniation while in battle ... you are closer change the ammuniation ... hey you see you couldn't do any damage to him ... use different typ of ammuniation ...
THAT would be a startegic part ... but give us time to see it WE are no computers ...
MORE STRATEGIC PART IN THE GAME:
REDUCE SHIPSPEED
REDUCE ROUNDS OF FIRE per second.
...
Next step would be even from where you are shooting AFTER the shield is down !!!
Hope this could be a useful idea ...
THX for reading
Hope there is a way to make it a real strategic game.
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Endureth
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Posted - 2003.07.03 08:34:00 -
[64]
I played Advanced Squad Leader also, it was a tactical game, not strategic. EVE, is overall a strategic game, but ship to ship combat is tactical.
EVE is a different sort of monster than ASL was though.
I will have to see how combat works in the new patch, but from what I am hearing, it's a good start to some much-needed positive changes. A start. A start. A start. There is still a lot of work to do.
-E
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.03 09:16:00 -
[65]
I left the pvp to morkt and tomB on chaos last night, and tried the NPC's with my *new* guns.
It actually takes more than 4 mouse clicks and F1-4 to beat a group of cruisers now. Which is a relief. NPC farming was so horribly predictable before, that once you had targetted all the ships, you only had to turn your guns on and go do something else.
Arming your ship wasn't simply a case of picking the 'best' gun and loading it with the 'best' ammo. Different guns/ammo will suit different tactics.
I'm gonna prepare some ships to sell out in the 0.0's, business will be gooooood tonight.
Sorta wish I hadn't recycled several thousand units of M hybrid ammo the other night :/
.
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Silmaril
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Posted - 2003.07.03 09:17:00 -
[66]
Von Thoma, I think you're getting mixed up between a strategy game, and strategic elements in combat. As Endureth said, eve is a whole different ball game. Its not a strategy game, but that doesn't mean there is no strategy involved (at least after the patch anyways.)
Edited by: Silmaril on 03/07/2003 09:18:53
"Do not waste your tears. I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men." |
Serge
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Posted - 2003.07.03 09:49:00 -
[67]
one question to the wepon testers:
Has the ROF issue with fast firing guns (ROF=1sec) already been adressed? atm fast firing or similar skills which increase ROF give a DECREASE of ROF with these fast-firing wepons.
***********************************************
... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.07.03 10:06:00 -
[68]
So, a patch will come in one hour from now with the new changes for combat to the Live server. The changes will affect your gameplay alot. I urge all players to test these combat changes on easy targets to begin with, test ammo and how the accuracy is working, before going deep into space where you could get into trouble.
I would like to thank everyone who helped us with testing on the Test server and who were at #eve-chaos, also all comments and feedback I got here on the forums about these change ... and special thanks to the BH Team.
Edited by: TomB on 03/07/2003 10:08:49
"Where is my hat?" |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.07.03 10:07:00 -
[69]
Serge: it's fixed, coming in this patch.
"Where is my hat?" |
Serge
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Posted - 2003.07.03 10:32:00 -
[70]
Thanks for the reply! Now looking forward to some hopefully interesting experience with the patched issues ;)
***********************************************
... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.03 11:12:00 -
[71]
I can't wait to get home and see how much non AM/EMP ammo I can sell :)
Just a bit gutted we recycled an assload of M ammo a couple of nights ago :/
And I'm glad to see that skills will play a bigger part in battle now, too.
I'm also gonna keep an eye on the map, I got a feeling that the best loot drops tonight will be from overconfident players. (me included)
.
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Lithorus
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Posted - 2003.07.03 11:14:00 -
[72]
I have to say I'm quite dissapointed with the ship changes. The lack of medium slots in our ships is not worth 5% decrease in ROF. And as someone said these changes will actually make us slower than before. One thing I would like to see was an added 5% decrease in reload time. That I think would make things more balanced. Either that or give us a ship with atleast 4 medium slots.
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Lithorus
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Posted - 2003.07.03 12:02:00 -
[73]
Edit: nvm
Edited by: Lithorus on 03/07/2003 12:02:51
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Smoke
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Posted - 2003.07.03 14:45:00 -
[74]
F**K they screwed me over! I chose minmatar, because i wanted to be fast, a galaxtic trade runner of sorts.The names smoke! They screwed me over and my stabber's virtually useless. 20m/s speed bonus, thats like someone could ram me and give me that bonus! Im not gunna play anymore! i was gunna start exploring/or join the alliance and fight.But they messed it all up!Dammit i just got new agent, cruiser, skills guns, lif burners and there nothing now.
later..
and like that.....GONE! |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.03 14:50:00 -
[75]
smoke, are you serious? You're gonna quit because your improved ship isn't improved enough?
relax a bit, put yer feet up, have a nice cup of tea.
also, I made someone go about 5km/s from a well aimed ramming run. :)
.
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Smoke
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Posted - 2003.07.03 14:59:00 -
[76]
It just annoy's me. I wont quit, but just mightly fekked off. Is it me or are we paying for being beta testers!
and like that.....GONE! |
Kelewan
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Posted - 2003.07.03 15:00:00 -
[77]
Drunk the master rammer lol
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"I am watching you through a camera" - Artie Ziff
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.07.03 18:22:00 -
[78]
uh
did min ships LOSE a med slot?!
was the speed bonus really 20 m/s?! Yeesh.. they said "significantly faster" in the patch notes. I was expecting around 50 "realistically."
Argh. So... everyone else gets damage bonus and such, we get... firing rate. Hmm.
"Minmatar cruisers and battleships have had their speed bonus removed, instead they will get much more base speed and now also ROF bonus (Rate of Fire) for projectile weapons per navigation skill level. This does not apply for Minmatar frigates."
I assume he means SHIP COMMAND skill level not Navigation!
He's right, i'm going to be lots slower.
20 m/s is not "much more base speed" and will in no way compensate for the 5% per level speed bonus i was getting before, will it.
I had, say, in a stabber:
180 base
Navigation skill bouses let's say L3, 15%
now it's 207
Min Cruiser bonuses for ship special of speed also L3 another 15%
now it's 238 without any modules.
Post-patch:
200 base
nav bonuses 15% for L3
230
...
and that's it.
My base speed is slower.
I say again,
S L O W E R.
Until the patch notes, noone knew for sure what acutal changes or bonus would be...
doesn't at least one dev like minmatar ships and run the numbers on them? 8)
I hope this is addressed asap. The base with a 50m/s would be 230 so clearly it'll be faster (premodule speed with nav-3 would be 264).
Bonus of 30 would be nearly meaningless (the "significant increase" means that prepatch 238, post 241).
A *minimum* of 40m/s boost to all min crusiers is necessary to actually improve stats over the loss of the speed ship special.
I don't know how this was overlooked.
So we're underpowered, underslotted, and slower.
*hides in station*
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Juju Mojo
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Posted - 2003.07.03 19:20:00 -
[79]
***UPDATE***
I made my post anout Minmatar ship speeds last night before I went to bed. Today I logged on to the live server and these are the new speeds for Minmatar cruisers/battleships (numbers in parenthesis are the old maximum speeds based on having level 5 skill):
Scythe - 195 m/sec (206 m/sec)
Bellicose - 195 m/sec (187.5 m/sec)
Stabber - 215 m/sec (225 m/sec)
Rupture - 185 m/sec (187.5 m/sec)
Typhoon - 140 m/sec (150 m/sec)
Tempest - 130 m/sec (131 m/sec)
So the Scythe, Stabber, and Typhoon took approximately a 10 m/sec loss, and the Bellicose got a 7.5 m/sec increase over what their _potential_ speeds would have been. (The Rupture and Tempest are pretty close to what they would have been anyway.)
I didn't mean to get anyone up in arms with the information I posted previously, I just wanted to give TomB some feedback about his changes before they went live. I'm willing to give these newest values a try (although I am still a little saddened by the net loss of 10 m/sec on my Stabber. I chose it because of it's blazing speed for a cruiser, although it still is the fastest, it just isn't the fastest by quite such a big margin any more).
At this point I think all us Minies are going to have to go do some feild testing and see how our ships perform with all the other changes to combat as well.
Thanks TomB! Although I haven't had enough time to test but a fraction of all the things you guys have changed, so far I think you and your associates are doing a fantastic job. Keep up the good work. |
Ilia Volyova
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Posted - 2003.07.04 20:44:00 -
[80]
Well, but for Lvl5 in cruiser you would need around 40 days with good per and wil values..
I would rather take the lvl4 mods to compare the ships.
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Ironbuck
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Posted - 2003.07.07 15:31:00 -
[81]
OK i have been playing new patch since itd release (i fly a rupture) and use medium proj and laser turrets.
I now find that my hvy beam laser is doing considerably more dam than my proj turret on average and it has a faster tracking speed and better range even with a mutilfreq crystal.
My 650mm cannon has basically now become a weapon which rarely hits for more than 40dam :(
but occasionaly does 3x times that amount??
Proj wepaons have become utter pants in close now, the 650mm hardly ever hits even bad NPC pirates under 10km now !! and i have many lvl 4 combat skills which add to its to hit/dam/tracking speed to.
I hate to think how bad itd be if i wasnt using three proj mods and two track speed mods??
Please sort out the minmatar cruisers also they are so second rate it unbelievable.
The rupture is arguably the best (though some prefer stabber) and it is bettered in ALL ways by the other three top lvl cruisers from the other races.
Moa is better at ECMS and cpu by a lot.
Maller has more turrets and hits.
Gallente one (cant remember name) has similar hits and 3x the drone space.
Only vague benefit it has is 10ms quicker (WOW) and has missile slots (where maller has none) which mightbe ok if missiles didnt suck the big one :)
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Karif
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Posted - 2003.07.07 18:44:00 -
[82]
Well, here's my observations:
Projectiles fire too slow now.
Perhaps toning down the damage multiplier, upping the ROF, and adjusting the ammo capacity would be the best way to make projectiles a bit more effective than they are now, without going oberboard.
Hybrids seem to be about right, but my testing isn't complete. The short range blasters may need tuning.
Lasers *seem* to track too fast and it is far to easy to switch between short/medium/long range lenses. Be a few days before I can give them a good grinding.
===============================
Deception + Information + Skill |
Andrey
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Posted - 2003.07.08 09:55:00 -
[83]
 Quote:
Instead we will bring you some bigger pirates also to play with.
I am interested if there any 'bigger' ships actually in game now? I could not find any ....
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Serge
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Posted - 2003.07.09 10:20:00 -
[84]
yah - well, projectiles over and out ...
I used 650 ari and 150 scout and now I'm back at beam wepons ... no question, medium projectile wepons were killed!
--> ammo issue,ROF,tracking ... I really dont see a point in using them any more!
Pirate drop that nice laser guns that need very few cap and give good damage over greater range than these crappy ari!
I mean c'mone, optimal range of 650 ari of 5000m with EM? an ammo thats supposed to take out shields?
***********************************************
... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha |
Will McBlack
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Posted - 2003.07.10 06:51:00 -
[85]
Warp Scrambling Police.... I thought the scrambling range was 20km max, at least thats what my warp scramblers tell me and what I've experienced vs pirats. Howerver, Police Officers seem to happily scramble me at 30km!
What I did:
Testserver, took out an Incursus, searched the spawn place in Osmeden, a lot of noob ships in mid space there. I destroyed one, police shows up, ok thats normal. They warped in about 15km of me and start to scramble me... ok fine. I set a course at 180 degrees angle of the police fire up ABs and as I write this the nearest cop is 50km away (and the furtest away is 150+km), however, I am still warp scrambled. This seems like a bug to me :)
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Anya Stark
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Posted - 2003.07.10 18:13:00 -
[86]
"Lasers *seem* to track too fast and it is far to easy to switch between short/medium/long range lenses. Be a few days before I can give them a good grinding."
Aw man, never say stuff like that in the offical forums, say it in Eve-i or something. "The Powers that Nerf" won't respond by restoring projectiles or improving hybrids, they'll just nerf the hell out of beams until nothing works. That was their response to carebear whining about 425 dual scouts right?
I continue to believe that the solution to overpowered stuff(to keep us all happy) is to make other stuff *stronger* to compensate rather than crippling the good ones. The answer to the original Gyro 1s and stamped Heat sinks was to double our shields and put out the better extenders and hardeners available now. That would have been just as easy, and wouldn't have made the people who spend tons of time and/or Isk getting that stuff feel like doofuses.
I spend a *lot* of Isk on my current loadout (various M projectiles, all scouts plus gyro 1s), after losing the sweet looted loadout I had before the patch to overconfidence in the face of 200K worth of constantly respawning Liquidators and Marauders. Like really, I spent at least 6-7 mil Isk just before the patch. Now I need to go out and spend that again on energy weapons and mods? Not like I can hunt for them if what is being said about the changes to loot tables is accurate (ie. no one if getting weapons, especially not decent ones). Besides, what's the point if they're just gonna nerf the good beams like 2 days after I get/buy them?
Stark.
Edited by: Anya Stark on 10/07/2003 18:16:04
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Crimmer
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Posted - 2003.07.12 21:00:00 -
[87]
I do have a question about the combat situation. Currently I have a Rifter Frigate and I equiped a M-12 Standard Missle Launcer with F.O.F. FireFly missles. I tried to fire one last night and I couldn't fire the missle until I was 5m away from my target. What's wrong?
I thought I could be 20m away. Is there a skill I don't know about that affects my distance from my target to fire a missle? Because I keep getting the "Distance is not suitable for fire" message and I have to be literally 5m close to my target to fire.
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Von Thoma
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Posted - 2003.07.14 06:32:00 -
[88]
So it seems next ISSUE we have to cut this stupid beam lasers ...
and I really mean it that way !
So please DEVS have a look at them and REDUCE them down to fit to the other weapons.
HEY they even don't have to use ammuniation ... so they should have a setback, not too much, but of course one. All others have to pay and use cargo bay for their weapons. So they could even use that cargo bay for heavy missles (cruise or torpedo) ...
And I mean IT seems Projectil and Hybrid is now in a range they should be, so only small adjustment to them.
I am using different sorts of Hybrid AND HAVE ALL SKILLS around 4, even some 5 ... and I am doing between 60-90 Dam with best Hybrid Weapon at optimum Range ... before patch it was 100-150 BUT IT IS OKAY, a lot better.
I see that the responsible guy from CCP is working on it and that's good ...
I am looking forward that he would continue that way and send all the children to hell ... who want their GOD Weapon to do 600 Damage again, get lost and play your 3D shooter again.
Good work last patch, it is the right way ...
go on TomB and your Team.
THX for making the game more enjoyable.
Edited by: Von Thoma on 14/07/2003 06:34:16
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.07.15 16:56:00 -
[89]
Been around for a while, and the changes have been on the live server for a while too.
Time to unsticky.
Redundancy |
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