EVE Search - Combat changes

All Channels

Test Server Feedback

Combat changes - Test Server

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
TomB	Posted - 2003.07.01 23:31:00 - [1] Hello Hello We will be introducing alot of fixes and changes to combat in the next patch. Combat should get bit more tactical than before and alot more balance, people will be able to survive longer in battle and we also have new defence modules somewhere out there (no hints). The major changes that will be done are that turrets with lower tracking speed will be poor to use at short range, and almost impossible to hit small objects at high transversal speed. Frigate for example with 150mm Railguns or Artillery Cannons will get their ass kicked by another with short range high tracking turrets, cruiser with 4X 250mm Railguns will have a hard time with a frigate using close-up weapons at close range, and so will battleships with 1400mm Howitzers vs. Cruisers at close range. The physics engine has already been updated to the test server with code for accuracy and we will be balancing combat now a-lot. So if you plan to help on testing combat, expect alot of reboots on the test server, we will try to get people on the in-game "eve-chaos" chat channel and on the #eve-chaos (irc.coldfront.net) IRC chat channel to notify when a reboot is about to take place. Please no flames if you don't get words on the reboot :Ì Short list of importand bug fixes for combat (from a very big list): * Hybrid weapons have had their ammo capacity reduced a bit and the uber ammo capacity of the meta types has been fixed. * Medium and Large Projectile turrets have had their ammo capacity reduced alot to reflect the ammo capacity of the small projectile turrets (artilleries 20 rounds, howitzers 10 rounds). * Rapid Firing skill now stacks per level. * Surgical Strike bug affecting all damage modification attributes has been fixed. * Small, Medium and Large turret skills stacking for damage has been fixed. If you have any comments, please speak up anywhere you feel like. Edited to correct IRC server address "Where is my hat?"
TomB	Posted - 2003.07.01 23:41:00 - [2] Maybe forgot to add some comments about NPC Pirates: NPC Pirates should get a bit tougher after next patch but not as tough as they are currently on the test server. I will try to get them updated at the same time as turrets get an update. But still people should beware that the current NPC Pirates on the Live server are far to easy to kill at higher level. The reason is mostyl because of the stacking turret skills and the surgical strike bug. A player should never be able to take out 3-4 big cruiser NPC Pirates solo on a cruise himself. Players have been getting used to it on the Live server, so we will reduce their abilities abit, specially since they have an advantage of no limits on ammo and capacitor. Instead we will bring you some bigger pirates also to play with. And also, currently hybrid weapons have had tuning on tracking speed if players are intressted. We will see how combats comes from these changes and then change projectiles and lasers as well and tune these all together. And my last also; forgot to add that range modifier for ammo is now working. "Where is my hat?"
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.07.01 23:48:00 - [3] about projectiles. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=14519
Hippey	Posted - 2003.07.01 23:59:00 - [4] Great new TomB. I was hoping that tracking indeed would become more of a tactical factor. I will go to chaos and test this soon for you. Is there any word on when ship balancing might get a real hard look into. For example, Minmatar have no cruiser with more then 3 medium slots, Caldari have one with 6. Also, can we see Minmatar ships actually have a bigger speed advantage then 20m/s over the "slow" but heavily armored Caldari ships? ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die! Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill!
Shauna	Posted - 2003.07.01 23:59:00 - [5] Two questions: 1) Since surgical strike is being fixed... will the high end weapon mods (ie. stamped heat sinks) be returned to their previouls 17% bonus levels? 2) It was mentioned that a solo cruiser shouldn't be able to take on 4-5 similar-level pirate cruisers. What is the expected balance for, say, a high-end cruiser outfitted for combat versus the low end pirate cruisers?
Vegeta	Posted - 2003.07.02 05:08:00 - [6] "Instead we will bring you some bigger pirates also to play with." You have just made my day 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Varsuuk	Posted - 2003.07.02 05:39:00 - [7] I agree on ships (I am a min) I WANT to see differences in ships, but please consider that most ships will have 1 sort of speed boost (not necessarily MWDs now ;P) and that the boosted speed is likely to cut diffs dramatically. Buteven when this is not so, the speed diff of 20 (not all min ships are faster than equiv other races like cald) the guy above stated, does not compare to the med slots - THOSE allow for 'fun' modules and things like webby, ruptors for defensive offense and shield hardeners etc way too much to list. Min have less med and small - fine, but balance this properly with other advantages (we also have nearly nill drons - fine again but balance it) If SPEED is it only... :( then make the speed matter more - tracking will be in, so up the speed to make us rely on speed more? I dunno, currently I am training on my 2 mins one of each of the other races cos I am not too satisfied and I hate that :( (note will NEVER EVER train an Amarr spits dog's ship type tho)
Muaddid	Posted - 2003.07.02 05:55:00 - [8] Question to TomB >> does the hybrid dmg bonus that gallente frigates/cruisers/BS have will be fixed ? atm a gallente cruiser using small or large hybrids wont get the bonus, only on medium... BS on large only, frigs on small only... On vacations (need a new sig too)
TomB	Posted - 2003.07.02 06:31:00 - [9] Muaddid: I did not know about this bug, I'll try to get this fixed for upcoming patch. Varsuuk: We know that the Minmatar ships are a bit too weak at this time, making them faster or more aggressive as their nature is will be sorted out. But I can't promise you when this will happen. "Where is my hat?"
Jaabaa	Posted - 2003.07.02 07:18:00 - [10] Quote: We know that the Minmatar ships are a bit too weak at this time, making them faster or more aggressive as their nature is will be sorted out. Yes, :) great news :) :) Quote: But I can't promise you when this will happen. I can't wait for Minmatar to stop being the "cruiser" underdog :) -- Jaabaa - CEO - Dental Drilling Corporation
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.02 07:22:00 - [11] I played for a couple of hours on chaos last night, and it all seems to be working very well. The new tracking seems to be pretty good also, so you can't totally ream frigates with a 250mm hybrid any more. It takes time (I only had 250's and AM M on chaos) Didn't have time to go up against any cruisers, but after reading this, it's probably just as well :) .
Temujin Destovai	Posted - 2003.07.02 08:11:00 - [12] Finally ;) This is much needed good news. The Chronicles of Xanadu
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.07.02 08:32:00 - [13] \o\\o//o/ Let go test this :) [Heterocephalus glaber]
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2003.07.02 08:49:00 - [14] I just went through the fitting process: --- 250mm RG (Base specs) Damage: 2.5 Opt Range: 20000 Falloff: 10000 ROF: 6 --- Skill mod: Damage: 2.875 Opt Range: 23000 Falloff: 10000 ROF: 4.875 --- Fit 2x Basic Magnetic Field Stabilizers Damage: 3.17 Opt Range: 23000 Falloff: 10000 ROF: 4.38 --- Load Antimatter-M Damage: 3.17 Opt Range: 11500 Falloff: 10000 ROF: 5.1 --- I think that the ammo should only effect the falloff, and not the optimal range. Or maybe only change the optimal range with 50% effect and the falloff at 100%. i.e. from: Opt Range: 23000 Falloff: 10000 to Opt Range: 17250 (-(230000.550%)) Half Falloff: 5000 (-(100001.050%)) Full Edit: "Basic Magnetic Field Stabilizer"s work again after server restart. Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 02/07/2003 09:45:41 -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2003.07.02 09:34:00 - [15] I just went through the fitting process again: --- 650mm Art (Base specs) Damage: 3.25 Opt Range: 7500 Falloff: 25000 ROF: 13.5 --- Skill mod: Damage: 3.25 Opt Range: 8625 Falloff: 25000 ROF: 10.9 Med Proj Skill does not change damage mod --- Fit 2x Basic Gyro Stabilizers Damage: 4.3 Opt Range: 8625 Falloff: 25000 ROF: 9.86 --- Load EMP-M Damage: 4.3 Opt Range: 4312.5 Falloff: 25000 ROF: 9.86 --- If the ammo were to do as I suggested in previous post then it would look like: Opt Range: 6468.75 Falloff: 12500 -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2003.07.02 09:54:00 - [16] 250mm RG with Antimatter-M - Kinetic Damage: 38 - Thermal Damage: 31 - Total: 69 (in 10 secs to match the 650mm Art: 138) Opt Range: 11500 Falloff: 10000 ROF: 5.1 --- 650mm Art with EMP-M - Kinetic Damage: 17 - EM Damage: 43 - Explosive Damage: 34 - Total: 84 Opt Range: 4312.5 Falloff: 25000 ROF: 9.86 -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Conception	Posted - 2003.07.02 10:05:00 - [17] yup better change full only the falloff, not optimal range, because with this the rails are 2 week. they are designed as long range weapons and suddenly they hit only from a distance where projectiles hit too. on eve-i.com forum was a nice example for the laser weapon. Optimal: 14400m Sharpshooter lev4: 1.20x Radio: 1.6x 144001.21.6 = ~27km so a laser weapon hit from far away and a designed long range weapon have to go 50% closer... what a perfect tuning Mit freundlichen Gr³¯en / with kind regards Conception
Demangel	Posted - 2003.07.02 10:19:00 - [18] I like 99% of these changes if taken by the numbers, but... I'm not too sure hyrbids are getting enough love. I'll have to try and test em maybe to see, but for the life of me I STILL feel hybrids using AM ammo should outrange projectiles using EMP ammo. Currently if you use Anti Matter Ammo your absolute max range is LESS than the projectiles, and somehow that screems imbalanced to me. IE why would you use Anti matter at all since it does less (Antimatter of all things does LESS!? The stuff that is supposed to be able to cancel out normal matter with tremendous energy!?) damage, and gives such poor range? I still have to test chaos, but if this wasn't fixed: 425MM scout near ultimate max range using EMP ammo will do more damage than a 250MM hyrbid at the same range. IE 425 has a ultimate max of 31KM with EMP? right? 250MM prototype hybrid has an ultimate max range of 22-24KM or something like that with Antimatter right? Now I'm not sure any longer what the ROF is for the 425MM scout, but unless your changed it, last I heard it was unboosted at about .5 seconds SLOWER than the Hybrid prototype... .5 seconds? should be more like 2.5 or something maybe LOL Oh well I'll just need someone to pass me a med projectile skill pack and a 425MM scout and a 250MM prototype and check it out. But by eyeballing it, it still "looks" unbalanced for the cost of so much CPU and Powergrid to use the hybrid instead of the 425MM, and I KNOW unless you changed it, the 425 probably holds more than enough ammo still to not make the 250MM worth it... even 20 ammo is a LOT for a gun like that with so little drawbacks... Oh well like I said I need to test all this myself anyway so This is more of a question than a comment heheh I can live with hybrids having poorer range with Anti matter than Projectiles with EMP ammo, but only if projectile turrets suffer damage penalties properly from extended ranges. IE Does Damage degrade with range now? Even if it does the projectiles will still outrange the hybrids by a lot, but maybe from a far enough range the damage will be minimal? IE does a 250MM arty (projectile) firing at 15KM with EMP s do less cumulative/average doamage than a 150MM hybrid with Antimatter S at the same range? Actually if your sticking with -50% for antimatter the 150MM rail will actually NEVER reach 15KM LOL how silly of me... >;( so again the projectile will do more damage at longer range... PLEASE put AM ammo back to -30% at least then we stood a chance at using them ;) It SHOULD you know... thats if your being faithfull to the whole point of hybrids anyway. :) Not asking for hyrbids to be satans uber hammer of death at any range or anything, just that they do what they are supposed to: have a range advantage that makes up for the less damage of the rounds themselves. Oh well time to go try and test. Now lets see... do I bust out the 250MM arty for frigate splatting on my cruiser, or the 125MM hybrid? Oh well hehehe practice makes perfect :) Edited by: Demangel on 02/07/2003 10:31:10 Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.02 10:51:00 - [19] Hmmm, satans uber hammer of death. Now there's something that would fill a top slot... .
Doom	Posted - 2003.07.02 10:54:00 - [20] All I can say is please stop using Antimatter ammo in your examples. There ARE other ammos. A Long range Railgun should be firing a less volatile ammo of it wants to be a sniping weapon. Short range Blasters are what antimatter ammo was really meant for... they have almost no range to penalize. Long range Progectiles SHOULD do more damage (per shot) than railguns... We are talking about slow firing big hitters. Damage over time should be similar however. Short range Projectiles.... Well, nobody really cares :) Other than that... I gotta say that I have been waiting for this day to come for quite some time :) You can not escape your Doom...
soltys	Posted - 2003.07.02 10:55:00 - [21] Why do 250mm have tracking: 0.02 (?) optimal: 5k, falloff 15k rof 7.5 (!?) damage 3.25 whereas: 150mm railgun: tracking: 0.03 optimal: 12k, falloff 6k rof: 4 damage 2.5 Railgun is definitely longrange gun, so imo, it should have bigger damage modifier, worse rof, and worse tracking. DoT should be the same, maybe bigger (due to energy requirement). Also long range weapon probably shouldn't hold more rounds than medium range weapon. 250mm doesn't aspire to be long range gun after all. And as always, howitzers are even more useless now then they were before (tracking cut to half). ---------------------------------------------------------- Damage stats: click version v1.1.02 retail.
Busko Moonwalker	Posted - 2003.07.02 11:24:00 - [22] Proj guns are low tech and should make less damge :D the big adv with them should be no energy usage when fired. And laser should TAKE way more then Hybrid in power grid (actualy i dont know how much they take :D dont remeber :D ) Thats what is feeding them. The big adv with lasers are no ammo :D Hybrids Power core usage should be lowered i think. But the new tracking and ammo changes will not work in PvP battle or when you run around solo. Battels are WAY TO SHORT give all the ships EXTRA 50% shield and armor and stuff will change. what good is my Rail gun tha have a optimal at 24K when i drop from warp at 20 to 15 K from pirats or jumpgates. With this paper armor and shield i will be in a pod before i even get off 1 shot. I think CCP have spined away from the pros and cons of the gun in the hunt for balance. I bet peeps are sick and tired to recheck there ships after every patch coz something may have been changed. Whit all this PIP nerfing going on :(. /Busko
Guilbert	Posted - 2003.07.02 12:03:00 - [23] (Frigate for example with 150mm Railguns or Artillery Cannons will get their ass kicked by another with short range high tracking turrets, cruiser with 4X 250mm Railguns will have a hard time with a frigate using close-up weapons at close range, and so will battleships with 1400mm Howitzers vs. Cruisers at close range.) so whats that gonna change? make frigates now a treat to cruisers? not at all,frigates gets webbed and there goes his bonus in close range fighting.there are no counter measures gainst webbing and even if,fighting frigates dont have any slots left. anyhow wasnt the higher mm guns ment to be the better waepons? like artillery saying its the best gun mountable on a frigate.. i luv frigates and im really waiting for some changes that would actually make them any usefull in pvp.. Mess with the best.. ..and die like the rest
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.02 12:17:00 - [24] guilbert, if someone is webbing you, you can still shoot at them, and if it's a cruiser, then the closer you are to webbing range, the less damage their guns will do (unless they have blasters) You could also target lock him, ECM burst to clear the lock, or just stack up on ECM kit. Also bear in mind that a single frigate will never be a threat to a cruiser, unless the cruiser pilot is asleep. But when you get 2 or 3 frigates, it will put a cruiser in serious trouble. They can only web one person at a time. And if they're carrying a webber, then they must have cut short their 'fighting' loadout. You're proposing a situation where everybody has the right loadout for the job (webbers). The chances of this happening are very slim. For instance, the cruiser might have a load of Radar ECM kit, but your ship might use gravimetric targetting, and thus he will have two or three modules that can't do anything against you. Situational combat like this is very hard to balance due to the enormous amount of variables that could come to battle. But I think it will stop the whole issue of the 'uber-weapons'. A 425 scout with EM might have the power, but as long as you are quicker, and can sit at 25km with thorium charges, the battle is yours. same with missiles. And drones. .
Demangel	Posted - 2003.07.02 12:37:00 - [25] Ok then Doom Explain to me how the 425MM is balanced to the 250MM prototype? As far as sniping goes... bigger + better bullet in real life generally means better range and hitting power. So don't tell me sniping weapons should hurt less, and since this ISN'T sniping we're talking about i STILl think your wrong... Also if AM ammo was MEANT for blasters then what is EMP's made for? why is it wrong to compare AM and EMP? Want me to compare Carbonized lead and Iron charges? you might learn something else... how about iridium charges? go play with the numbers and you will see that there is a point to using AM ammo... and the other types, but the point for using AM ammo is silly. stop trying to wieght the tests so you come out looking good. ;) I KNOW you will still be using EMP M on your 425 scout... Also how come blasters have thier optimal killed by AM so badly? Not killed you say? -50% not so bad you say? try going from 700M (already insainly short), to 350M optimal... see how you like it ;) Have you ever even USED a hyrbid before? again I'm not looking for hybrids to be the best, just balanced. On chaos today some folks played with 425MM's and unless they where lying they still owned 250MM prototypes at ANY RANGE. Also look at the potential damage of the ammo types: Hybrids are supposed to be good long range projectile weapons, they are meant to pay for this with cap use and fitting requirements. Right now the best hybrids are being outranged, outdamaged, and outclassed by the best projectile guns. SMALL turrets arn't so bad 250MM light arties DO have a disgustingly slow ROF. But again people are forgetting the gyrostabalizers... With two or three of them on with the right skills the projectile turrets WILL have a ROF that can meet or beat that of ANY hybrid. Magnetic stabs have disgusting requirements, meaning even in cruisers if you mount five of them without a co processor your not going to have any room for even a low end medium hybrid. mount four and you can mount ONE gun... Mount three or four gyros though in a maller and you can still mount anything else you want by comparison. go and try it on Chaos my friend, and your eyes will be opened. Or is that really why your arguing with me? do you REALLy want to keep powning people in your cruiser with your L337 425MMs? Anyway no disrespect, just friendly ribbing ;) hope you see the point though hybrids are all but broken on Chaos now. at -30% range from Antimatter ammo it was a close enough gap between ranges that I could live with it... but at -50% it's just plain broken... End of story. Edited by: Demangel on 02/07/2003 12:39:10 Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.02 12:47:00 - [26] if AM M is -50% then what of the other ammo types? could someone with access to chaos get the range mods for all ammo? I know it's a tall order, but the information could be useful. .
Mara Nightshade	Posted - 2003.07.02 12:54:00 - [27] Does the agility modifier also affect the possibility of being hit? I think it will make the frigates a lot more intresting if it evades hits easier than a plump cruiser or battle ship. ----------------------------------------------- Catch Up! Mara Nightshade -----------------------------------------------
Demangel	Posted - 2003.07.02 12:56:00 - [28] Guilbert frigates WILL be more useful in PVP now, but I made a point some time ago: cruisers offer more options as well as more slots armor and bigger guns: YES: a cruiser with all short range weapons with webbifiers and such WILL own a large group of frigates easily enough. No: a cruiser with all long range weapons wil not own frigates. the webifier will likely not be mounted on long range oriented cruisers very often after this patch, and although some people will do just that, they are paying cap and med slot to be able to do so... So that means against another cruiser they will have one less med slot to throw at an enemy. It's a game of tactics and strategy, in a well balanced game of such, every type of unit has a valid reason for being involved in every situation, and there is always a valid counterresponse to that unit. Remember if there are five of you fighting that cruiser with a webber, that cruiser needs to use up five targetting thingies... if his max is four, he can't hit you all at once. meaning someone will do some decent damage without being scratched. those five frigates cost a fraction of what the cruiser costs... meaning the loss of even four of them means nothing. Remember your a diversion/strike craft. Not meant for sieging or slugging it out. your role is to harrass the big guys, and guard them from other little guys. Trust me this isn't quite perfect yet, but it;s close enough now that you as a frigate fan (heck I miss flyin em too sometimes), WILL have a role in PVP after this patch. Just be ready to adapt to new tactics, and be ready to die a bit more than I would in my cruiser. Considering how cheap it is to fly a frigate and have the skills to do it well, you could die two or three times for every one time I die, and not be in as bad a shape. If your solo, even WITH the new mechanics, your better off just running 90% of the time anyway, that is also pretty accurate and fair. Just remember your proper role and I think you will be happy, I know I would be. so like I said: perfect? no... Better? oh hell yes! furthermore in a proper group: 1 cruiser +5 frigates, most players will concentrate ALL fire on the cruiser till its down. that leave you free to do your job pretty much of harrassing the enemy cruiser, and defending YOUR cruiser against THERE frigates. think about it: 1 cruiser +5 frigates against the same sized enemy group. The first side to lose a ship is now at a real disadvantage no matter what class it is... and now NOT haviung either an anti frigate cruiser, or a flight of frigates in your groupings will mean your at a disadvantage. think about it :) Edited by: Demangel on 02/07/2003 12:59:52 Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
BSOD	Posted - 2003.07.02 13:11:00 - [29] "guilbert, if someone is webbing you, you can still shoot at them, and if it's a cruiser, then the closer you are to webbing range, the less damage their guns will do (unless they have blasters)" Minor error here: The close-range penalty is due to tracking speed. Stationary or near-stationary (webified) target = sitting duck at close range. A single frigate against a cruiser should not have a chance unless the cruiser pilot is unprepared or asleep. But in such a situation, 2-3 frigates would chew that cruiser alive. ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises
Demangel	Posted - 2003.07.02 13:26:00 - [30] BSOD I wouldn't say NO chance, but I agree that a snowballs chance in hell is about accurate hehehe. A lone frigate against an unprepared (badly loaded out) cruiser should be able to take a bite out of the cruiser. IF: The cruiser lacks any short range weapons/webbifiers AND the frigate manages to get close enough without dying. HOWEVER: the cruiser would almost always be capable of warping out before a lone frigate could hope to do enough damage to it to completely kill it's shields. your right though, three frigates now DO have a VERY good chance of killing a Cruiser that is outfitted for long range fighting... Before it took three-four top of the line perfectly outfitted frigates with highly skilled characters controlling them and the cruiser had to be low end, damaged or equiped with very basic weapons... Now a guy two weeks into the game should stand a chance of being of some use in PVP. He won't be l337 or anything, but worth having as part of an escort in the rear of the fleet :) Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.