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Das Oskold	Posted - 2011.06.09 21:36:00 - [1] ôReligion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency.ö - Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.09 21:50:00 - [2] Edited by: Lyn Farel on 09/06/2011 21:50:45 This ambassador might have not been very intelligent to say such a thing, living in such a confusion about religion and terminology.
Tamur Theorabies Gallente Independent Progressive Alternative	Posted - 2011.06.09 22:51:00 - [3] An illustrative example of how people are being persecuted for their faith.
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.09 23:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Das Oskold ôAthiesm is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in my case, the ability to keep my mouth shut.ö Fixed that for you.
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.06.09 23:10:00 - [5] Oh boy, here we go again... It is neither religion nor the lack thereof that causes people to be irrational or lack humility/etc. It is the individual person. The fact that there are both theists and atheists that are equally stupid and vain demonstrates this. Unity Prevails.
Victoria Stecker Amarr Heathen Legion Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2011.06.10 00:51:00 - [6] Ah, but they are far to concerned with being right to care about being arrogant or vain. Humility is one of the first things sacrificed in the search for truth. ... I must be drinking, that actually sounded profound. - In the embrace of Hell, I am no longer afraid, for with His damned embrace, I have become that which I once most feared: Death.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.10 01:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq Originally by: Das Oskold ôAthiesm is a terminal illness whose symptoms include rationality.ö Fixed that for you. Fixed that for you. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Jason Galente Gallente Sentinels Academy Sentinel Federation	Posted - 2011.06.10 01:31:00 - [8] Greatest ambassador ever, just because he had the balls to say that... Curious about what the response was. I know where I will be when my time comes. What remains to be determined is when I get there.
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.10 02:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq Originally by: Das Oskold ôLife is a terminal illness whose symptoms include stupidity.ö Fixed that for you. Fixed that for you. Fixed again so that no one can argue with it.
Graelyn Amarr Adamant Edge Aegis Militia	Posted - 2011.06.10 02:44:00 - [10] Because surely, The Amarr Faith is the only religion in the Galaxy... How do Gallente politicians insult their own public and remain in office? ----------------
Ston Momaki Caldari Disciples of Ston	Posted - 2011.06.10 02:53:00 - [11] "Religion pure and undefiled is this, to look after widows and orphans in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world..." (a quote from a very spiritual person who was very critical of religion) The Disciples of Ston bid you peace.
Jason Galente Gallente Sentinels Academy Sentinel Federation	Posted - 2011.06.10 03:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Graelyn Because surely, The Amarr Faith is the only religion in the Galaxy... How do Gallente politicians insult their own public and remain in office? shrugs I guess it's the 'Insult everyone, insult no one' philosophy. I know where I will be when my time comes. What remains to be determined is when I get there.
Honorius Vitellius Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.10 04:25:00 - [13] This ôambassadorö shows a clear inability to pursue any diplomatic activity with common sense, humility, rational thinking, and moral decency. By his own flawed logic, what should this situation indicate? "There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe."
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.10 05:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Honorius Vitellius This ôambassadorö shows a clear inability to pursue any diplomatic activity with common sense, humility, rational thinking, and moral decency. No he doesn't. He just said one thing you didn't like. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Karmilla Strife Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.10 06:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Das Oskold "and in your case, moral decency.ö - Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220 Ably spoken by an ambassador of the culture that brought us holo-**** and transparent clothing. Of course his argument falls flat when we see how our terminal illness has lead to such a long-lived society.
Kontrahage EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.10 07:29:00 - [16] Edited by: Kontrahage on 10/06/2011 07:30:18 Originally by: Das Oskold ôReligion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency.ö - Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220 It confuses me that a representative of a truly liberal, tolerant and pluralistic society containing countles ethnicities and religions would say such a thing. Have there been any consequences or is this just another example of the gallentean bigotry? - Ivy League Navy - Ensign
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.10 07:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Karmilla Strife Ably spoken by an ambassador of the culture that brought us holo-**** and transparent clothing. Of course his argument falls flat when we see how our terminal illness has lead to such a long-lived society. A long-lived society that not only could not in two thousand years make the same technological progress the Federation made in five hundred, but destroyed almost all progress made by another. A society that successfully committed a genocide. A society that attempts to not only conquer but utterly destroy cultures purely out of monumental vanity. A society that attributes nine generations of sin to those not of its chosen ethnicity, but refuses to take any responsibility for its actions. The Empire is morally degenerate and is inhabited by moral degenerates. And for your information, do you know what else is long-lived? Syphillis. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.10 08:55:00 - [18] Yet more anti-Amarrian propaganda from the Gallentean ruling caste. Truly, they are servants of the Deceiver. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Arokh Ken'shar Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.10 12:59:00 - [19] One thing to say. Adults with imaginary friends are stupid. Thank you for not littering your mind.
Sylorin Caldari MMZ Laboratories LLC	Posted - 2011.06.10 13:34:00 - [20] To the best of our scientific ability, there is no conclusive evidence to prove the existance of God. Of course, there's no conclusive evidence to disprove the existance of God. Faith is best left up to the individual, but just in case the faithful are right, it dosen't hurt to be polite about the subject. *The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMZ Labs, LLC.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.10 13:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Graelyn How do Gallente politicians insult their own public and remain in office? It is possible he did not. 1. Many Intaki work in the Federations civil service. 2. Many Intaki are religious, e.g. the Ida thing and the Reborn. 3. Civil servants enjoy embarrassing politicians. So, I suspect that this quote from the Ambassador was leaked by an Intaki civil servant, which would eventually lead to the Ambassador being recalled and dismissed as being unsuitable for office. _________________________________________
Althus Treefingers Minmatar Voluval Security Services	Posted - 2011.06.10 13:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Das Oskold ôReligion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency.ö - Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220 Ugh... as if that settles anything. Life is the terminal illness. No matter how you live it, it ends. Even we capsuleers can't outlive the universe. You and everyone and everything that carries your memory will someday be as gone as anything can be; you will forget and be forgotten. In light of this, Mr. Ambassador's self-righteousness is exactly as justified as that of this smug-looking paperweight on my desk.
Nausea Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Das Oskold ôReligion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency.ö - Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220 A provocative statement that is decidedly more sweeping than you may want to make it, pilot Oskold. It may originally have been addressed to an Amarrian. It just as easily could have been aimed at a member of the Sani Sabik. Or an Intaki Reborn. Or an Achuran. Or a Minmatar seeking to rediscover his culture's spirtuality. Or any of a number of groups with spiritual beliefs that don't happen to be Amarrian. I'm ambivalent, neutral, have no real thoughts on religion, any of them, one way or another. There are certainly many reasons to be dislike the Empire. Attacking them merely because they have religious beliefs, (and not, say, any specific beliefs), as that statement does, is not one of them. ----
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.10 17:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Victoria Stecker Humility is one of the first things sacrificed in the search for truth. ... I must be drinking, that actually sounded profound. I think that you must be drunk, indeed. I am sober and that sounds totally illogical. The search for Truth has nothing to do with hubris. You have to be humble and open minded for that to work properly.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.10 18:11:00 - [25] Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 10/06/2011 18:11:24 Originally by: Rodj Blake Yet more anti-Amarrian propaganda from the Gallentean ruling caste. Truly, they are servants of the Deceiver. You can't be a serveant of the Deceiver if you're telling the honest truth. I'd say I'm sorry that the truth offends you, but that would be... well, dishonest. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.10 20:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Das Oskold ôReligion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency.ö - Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220 As with it seems almost any quote referenced by capsuleers regarding this particular topic, it would seem that this one has been taken out of context and subsequently used in a transparent attempt to stir some form of conflict. We request that the initiator of this topic release a full transcript of the conversation or monologue this quote was taken from, as it would seem to be aimed at a specific individual, and knowledge of whom would, in our opinion, likely stem a large portion of the indignation caused. We Return.
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.06.10 22:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Jason Galente Greatest ambassador ever, just because he had the balls to say that... Curious about what the response was. In the Federation? Thunderous applause. That was neither risky nor controversial considering his audience. I can't heal stupid
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.10 23:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Aiwha In the Federation? Thunderous applause. That was neither risky nor controversial considering his audience. And that's a beautiful thing. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Arista Shahni Amarr Murasaki Mining and Manufacturing	Posted - 2011.06.11 02:09:00 - [29] Sometimes it is a beautiful thing to not care about the words of politicians.
Kentt Em'asep Minmatar Sec Det 125	Posted - 2011.06.11 05:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Jason Galente Greatest ambassador ever, just because he had the balls to say that... Curious about what the response was. Originally by: Unit XS365BT We request that the initiator of this topic release a full transcript of the conversation or monologue this quote was taken from I did a bit of research and came up with this context out of a book called Theodicy which can be found in the archives here. The quote is found near the end at the beginning of chapter 6. I have been enjoying this book since I found it. That same exact quote is also found in other articles like this one about a United Federation of Eurondia, somewhere near the start. The rest is just about its government and stuff. I also searched throughout other areas but all are just bits and pieces. Another speaker whom is part of this speech is a Oturus Feinz, an Amarrian Ambassador ---- When I fly my ship, I feal like a little fly compared to all you folks... just try and swat me away, I'll just evade and come back to annoy you some more.- Kentt Em'asep
Sinjin Mokk Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.06.11 07:49:00 - [31] Funny, isn't it? For all their words on the nobility of concepts like "freedom" and "personal liberty," most Gallente seem to forget that "freedom of religion" is a central part of this political viewpoint. So every time I hear a Gallente taking a verbal poke at another person's spiritual dogma, it just proves futher their own inner corruption. New Tales of the Dark Amarr
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 14:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Sinjin Mokk Funny, isn't it? For all their words on the nobility of concepts like "freedom" and "personal liberty," most Gallente seem to forget that "freedom of religion" is a central part of this political viewpoint. So every time I hear a Gallente taking a verbal poke at another person's spiritual dogma, it just proves futher their own inner corruption. I know that, being an Imperialist, you do not have the neccessary cognitive skills to make the distinction, but criticising someone for having a religion is not the same as suppressing their right to believe in it. My contempt for religion is legendary, yet all members of my corporation, and all of my crewmembers - Intaki, Gallente, Jin-Mei, Minmatar, Amarr, Caldari - know they're allowed to have a religion as long as they practice it in strict privacy. While the moral degeneracy required to conceive of running an Empire on a religion is sickening to behold, it would not be my concern if that religion did not also give you the utterly preposterous delusion you were either obligated or entitled to interfere with the development and affairs of other civilizations. This is what transforms your civilization from a sad example of the folly of theocracy to an active and dangerous nuisance to the world, one that would be better off shattered to a point where it could no longer poison the soil. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 15:27:00 - [33] Ah, but Andreus, does your own perspective not depend on a belief in certain concepts that you cannot grasp with your hands, nor with a magnetic bottle, nor with a mathematical proof? Can you catch me a "right" or a "freedom" that people are supposedly entitled to by using any logic that does not boil down to, "it's obvious?" That is, the same basic argument that the Amarr tend to use?
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 15:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Ah, but Andreus, does your own perspective not depend on a belief in certain concepts that you cannot grasp with your hands, nor with a magnetic bottle, nor with a mathematical proof? No. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 16:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris No. Can you support that position with anything more than monosyllabic denials? It's my long-standing opinion that the Amarr and Gallente deserve each other. If you have some means of backing up your beliefs that does not boil down to faith-- faith that gives you license to meddle in others' affairs-- I'd love to hear it.
Acerba Agikor Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.11 16:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris I know that, being an Imperialist, you do not have the neccessary cognitive skills to make the distinction, but criticising someone for having a religion is not the same as suppressing their right to believe in it. My contempt for religion is legendary, yet all members of my corporation, and all of my crewmembers - Intaki, Gallente, Jin-Mei, Minmatar, Amarr, Caldari - know they're allowed to have a religion as long as they practice it in strict privacy. While the moral degeneracy required to conceive of running an Empire on a religion is sickening to behold, it would not be my concern if that religion did not also give you the utterly preposterous delusion you were either obligated or entitled to interfere with the development and affairs of other civilizations. This is what transforms your civilization from a sad example of the folly of theocracy to an active and dangerous nuisance to the world, one that would be better off shattered to a point where it could no longer poison the soil. They're allowed to hold different beliefs on the condition that their heretical views don't inconvenience your own prejudices? There's no tolerance or freedom in that, and to pretend otherwise is laughable. It's like a holder trying to appear open-minded and liberal by saying that his Minmatar slaves are allowed to maintain their barbarous religion, so long as he doesn't find out about it. There's more to faith than private belief, and to restrict a person's religious freedom to include only private belief is nothing short of spiritual castration. Of course, this has other unpleasant implications. Because you're so keen to force people of an alternative worldview into the closet... what about those who disagree with you on matters outside of religion? Should members of opposing political parties be allowed to hold their personal beliefs, but be required to keep these alternative beliefs to themselves? If the Gallente Federation dealt with political dissidents in the same manor with you deal with religious ones, then there would be no democracy. -------------------------------------------------- You can conceal sadism in technical language or flowery words, but it's still just as fun to watch.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 17:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Can you support that position with anything more than monosyllabic denials? Yes. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 17:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Acerba Agikor They're allowed to hold different beliefs on the condition that their heretical views Well, we're already off to a bad start. You're waving the word "heresy" around like it actually has any practical meaning whatsoever. Let me make this perfectly clear: Your religion is a falsehood. I spit on it. When you draw the two bows, I draw a circle capped by a triangle. "Heresy" has no meaning to me. Find some other buzzword. Originally by: Acerba Agikor There's no tolerance or freedom in that, and to pretend otherwise is laughable. It's like a holder trying to appear open-minded and liberal by saying that his Minmatar slaves are allowed to maintain their barbarous religion, so long as he doesn't find out about it. There's more to faith than private belief, and to restrict a person's religious freedom to include only private belief is nothing short of spiritual castration. I did say that Imperialists likely lacked the cognitive capacity to understand my point, and I am satisfied - although not neccessarily happy - to have been proved entirely correct on this point. Your false comparison is a truly desperate red herring - every single member of every single crew roster on every single one of my ships signed on by their own free will. They were made perfectly aware of the restrictions on religious practice mandated on my ship from the moment they expressed interest in serving. They knew exactly what was required of them, exactly what they were and were not allowed to do, and exactly what they were entitled to expect from me. Whenever my crew take shore leave, they are free to visit whatever religious gatherings or institutions they wish. There are absolutely no restrictions on religious paraphernalia displayed in their own quarters. And most importantly, from the moment they were made aware of the terms of their employment, they are absolutely free to choose whether or not the employment situation I offered was acceptable to them. If it was not, there are plenty of other capsuleers who need crew. If they accept it, and then later decide they cannot abide by it, they are free to leave whenever we reach the next station. Slaves do not have this choice. Originally by: Acerba Agikor Of course, this has other unpleasant implications. Because you're so keen to force people of an alternative worldview into the closet... what about those who disagree with you on matters outside of religion? Should members of opposing political parties be allowed to hold their personal beliefs, but be required to keep these alternative beliefs to themselves? My ships are not run by committee. My ships are not a public forum. My ships are not a democracy. My ships are corporate property upon which there are corporate codes of conduct. My ships are run according to naval standards. The political ideology of a pilot has (or at least, should have) absolutely no bearing on the efficient running of a combat vessel. If a crew member cannot deal with that, they are perfectly entitled to leave by the nearest airlock, and unlike some people I know, I will wait until it's connected to another pressurised environment before letting them walk through it. Originally by: Acerba Agikor If the Gallente Federation dealt with political dissidents in the same manor with you deal with religious ones, then there would be no democracy. I am not the entire Gallente Federation. I do not represent the entire Gallente Federation. If you cannot understand this simple fact, it's a wonder your pod recognises you as a human being. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 17:23:00 - [39] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 11/06/2011 17:25:23 Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 11/06/2011 17:24:04 Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Yes. Well, if you're not willing to back your position up, all right. The Alliance Tournament is on, as is the holographic table at The Skyhook. Given the availability of other entertainment, I'll leave you to your arguments with your fellow believers.
Sahaquiel Faust Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 17:29:00 - [40] Edited by: Sahaquiel Faust on 11/06/2011 17:29:53 I'm just going to point out a concept that the Amarrians here probably do not hold true: one's rights end where the person next to you's rights begin. If you want to be a devout believer in any faith it's fine by me. that does not however give you the right to advertise it on my ship to me and any of my other crew members. As soon as you start proselytizing to your crewmates aboard any ship of mine you will be given a warning. and if it happens again after the warning the evangelist is given two options stop with the preaching or find employment elsewhere. I make sure that people who serve aboard my ships are made fully aware of this and the rest of the code of conduct BEFORE they sign any paperwork. ----- Sahaquiel Faust Director Mixed Metaphor
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 17:29:00 - [41] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Well, if you're not willing to back your position up, all right. I am glad you are at least intelligent enough to seperate willingness from ability. I have the ability to back my arguments up, but I no longer find myself possessing enough respect for you to be willing to take the time and effort to elucidate my reasoning. It will be a lot of work for no real gratification. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 17:46:00 - [42] Your respect comes and goes, Andreus. I've learned not to put too much weight on it. Happy arguing; may your more-than-usually abstracted deities look on you with favor.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 18:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Your respect comes and goes, Andreus. As does your worthiness to obtain it. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Acerba Agikor Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.11 18:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris My ships are not a democracy. I could tell. -------------------------------------------------- You can conceal sadism in technical language or flowery words, but it's still just as fun to watch.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 18:33:00 - [45] Originally by: Acerba Agikor I could tell. You know something, but you understand nothing. This is the way of all Amarrians. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Sahaquiel Faust Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 18:37:00 - [46] Originally by: Acerba Agikor Originally by: Andreus Ixiris My ships are not a democracy. I could tell. This of course raises the question "Are YOUR ships democratically structured?" I strongly suspect they're not. ----- Sahaquiel Faust Director Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 18:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris As does your worthiness to obtain it. In your eyes, perhaps. My ability and willingness to argue various sides, Mr. Ixiris, does not mean that I have no clear vision of my own. I do. It is not the same as yours, and it's a good deal more cautious in finding justification for saying things like, Originally by: Andreus Ixiris You know something, but you understand nothing. This is the way of all Amarrians. I'll presume you're speaking of members of Amarrian society, not persons of Amarrian blood. I'll also presume you make an exception for Amarrian dissidents. Even presuming all of that, your statement is nevertheless ... presumptuous. The Amarr are a threat to the rest of us, yes. They are not, however, without merit. If they were, they'd find it difficult to pose a threat.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 18:58:00 - [48] I disagree. The Empire's absolute lack of merit is the most dangerous thing about it. Given its dreams of violent, bloody conquest of the entire known galaxy, it threatens to drown everything good in the universe in its own backwards, theocratic mediocrity. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 19:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris I disagree. The Empire's absolute lack of merit is the most dangerous thing about it. Given its dreams of violent, bloody conquest of the entire known galaxy, it threatens to drown everything good in the universe in its own backwards, theocratic mediocrity. Hm. "Theocratic mediocrity." I'm curious what you see as "mediocre," being as you seem to regard the Amarr as exceptional-- if only exceptionally dangerous. So what do you see as "good" in the universe, Mr. Ixiris, and why do the Amarr lack it? For my own part, I think they lack a clear-eyed dedication to the search for truth. Encountering a truth that contradicted their preconceived notions about the function of the universe, they'd be slow to accept it-- if they ever could accept it at all. But then, I believe the same thing about you, and about the Gallente in general. Perhaps it's just true of humans and human-like beings in general. Still, it seems like intensely-held beliefs about the nature of the universe would get in some people's way more than others'.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 19:40:00 - [50] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Hm. "Theocratic mediocrity." I'm curious what you see as "mediocre," being as you seem to regard the Amarr as exceptional-- if only exceptionally dangerous. So what do you see as "good" in the universe, Mr. Ixiris, and why do the Amarr lack it? Humanity. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 20:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Aria Jenneth So what do you see as "good" in the universe, Mr. Ixiris, and why do the Amarr lack it? Humanity. If true, that really would be exceptional. But, for good or ill, it isn't. Andreus, there are few things so "human" as getting wrapped up in a big idea and adopting that big idea to such a degree that it shapes your entire reality. The Amarr have adopted such an idea, and they really do seem to do their best (in their human way) to follow it. You and I literally do not inhabit the same mental universe as the Amarrian faithful do. You could describe it as a form of insanity: one who believes so strongly effectively inhabits a world apart, much like one who has lost touch with reality through less-widespread forms of delusion. But saying that, Andreus, why do you find them so blameworthy? One who inhabits a different reality cannot reasonably be blamed for acting as seems "right" within that reality. How does what you're doing differ from screaming curses at a man who insists that frogs are a benevolent and super-intelligent species from outside our reality, come to save us? Even if this man begins binding people into the frogs' service by force, screaming curses at him will not scratch his misunderstanding-- and is therefore nothing but cruelty. I occasionally try to coax you out of your own, as I perceive them, delusions. But though you hold fast to them, the worst I am likely to think of you is that you're a bit of a fool. "Evil," if it exists, Andreus, is much less common than simply being wrong. The Amarr are wrong; I firmly believe that.... But I don't see the point of beating them over the head with that. I barely see the point of holding it against them at all.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 20:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Aria Jenneth If true, that really would be exceptional. But, for good or ill, it isn't. Andreus, there are few things so "human" as getting wrapped up in a big idea and adopting that big idea to such a degree that it shapes your entire reality. The Amarrians are slaves to the most quinessentially inhuman idea of all - that quinessentially human features - free thought, free expression, self-determination, freedom of conscience, personal preference, personal belief - are either base and vile or actually the rightful province of a tyrannical, inscrutable, utterly mericless Cthonian monstrosity which not only coldly pulls puppet strings in this life, but for an eternity after it ends. Amarrians believe that all that is good in them comes from this monster, and all that is bad is a result of their human condition. This is the penultimately sickening anti-human belief in the cosmos, spared from being the nadir of human degeneracy only by the fact that it was recently surpassed by the Sansha's Nation, who have committed the abomination of actively removing that which makes them human. Originally by: Aria Jenneth One who inhabits a different reality cannot reasonably be blamed for acting as seems "right" within that reality. But saying that, Andreus, why do you find them so blameworthy? One who inhabits a different reality cannot reasonably be blamed for acting as seems "right" within that reality. Because far from allowing an idea to shape "their" "reality", what the Amarrians have done is allow an idea to destroy reality itself. The reality all of us have to live in. Everything an Amarrian does, every decision an Amarrian makes, is coloured by the belief in entities and places the existence of which no mortal has ever found the merest shred of verifiable evidence for. The Empire has done irreparable damage to a dozen cultures by forcing its tainted worldview upon them. It has committed at least two successful genocides. It has destroyed centuries of technological progress. The Amarr Empire, and the ideology that allows it to exist, is cancerous. We do not simply allow psychopaths with vibroknives to slit up exotic dancers because "it feels right" to them. Containing such a lunatic and treating his malady is the solution, and if he will not be divested of his urge to murder, locking him away for the safety of others. Originally by: Aria Jenneth I occasionally try to coax you out of your own, as I perceive them, delusions. I have none. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 21:24:00 - [53] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris The Amarrians are slaves to the most quinessentially inhuman idea of all.... An idea that finds its origins in the extremely human tendency to anthropomophize their surroundings so as to make them less frightening. For what it's worth, I agree: the Amarrian God, if He existed, would have much to answer for. But, the Amarr look there and see only glory. They believe that God will ultimately take away all the pain and sorrow of this existence, and do not blame Him for that same pain and sorrow. One person's heavenly kingdom, another's nightmare. That's just faith at work. My own faith offers no solace quite so comforting as the idea that there is a being who, so long as you behave as you should, will ultimately protect and guide you. Neither does yours. Quote: ... far from allowing an idea to shape "their" "reality", what the Amarrians have done is allow an idea to destroy reality itself.... The Amarr Empire, and the ideology that allows it to exist, is cancerous. They haven't destroyed reality yet, and won't, not while the rest of us stand at their borders with all sorts of pretty, destructive toys. "Dangerous" does not mean "morally corrupt," Andreus. If you make that mistake, you only mirror the very moral judgments they would level against you. Perhaps you're content to be a mirror. Perhaps to you the Amarr look so horrible and corrupt that you must be able to become some great and shining good simply by reflecting them. Very well; I don't really blame you for following your faith in "fundamental human rights," either. Quote: We do not simply allow psychopaths with vibroknives to slit up exotic dancers because "it feels right" to them. Containing such a lunatic and treating his malady is the solution, and if he will not be divested of his urge to murder, locking him away for the safety of others. Precisely. You may have not noticed in your anger over what you seem to consider to be my unconscionable defense of the Amarr in certain places, but I fully believe in defending our homes against them. The Amarr should be held back from further conquests, exposed to other peoples and ideas without having the opportunity to enslave them, and encouraged in one way or another to follow the more reformist-minded in their midst. This should persist until their desire for violent conquest is blunted for good. Perhaps the Gallente would benefit from the same; a few figures from both cultures seem to have learned a lot from contact with the other. Quote: Originally by: Aria Jenneth I occasionally try to coax you out of your own, as I perceive them, delusions. I have none. See, Andreus, this is exactly why I can never bring myself to just walk away from you when you're making grumpy faces at me. You're just so cute!
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.11 21:26:00 - [54] People and their morals and philosophy are shaped by their planet. _________________________________________
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 21:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Valerie Valate People and their morals and philosophy are shaped by their planet. They often do seem to be, don't they?
Kazzzi Amarr Heathen Legion Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2011.06.11 21:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Valerie Valate People and their morals and philosophy are shaped by their planet. Planets are shaped by bulldozers and explosives. What's that tell you?
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.11 21:42:00 - [57] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 11/06/2011 21:42:31 Originally by: Kazzzi Originally by: Valerie Valate People and their morals and philosophy are shaped by their planet. Planets are shaped by bulldozers and explosives. What's that tell you? That one can carry an analogy too far before getting it out the door, mostly.
Kazzzi Amarr Heathen Legion Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2011.06.11 22:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 11/06/2011 21:42:31 Originally by: Kazzzi Originally by: Valerie Valate People and their morals and philosophy are shaped by their planet. Planets are shaped by bulldozers and explosives. What's that tell you? That one can carry an analogy too far before getting it out the door, mostly. No! It means bombs and bulldozers are cool, damnit.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 22:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Aria Jenneth An idea that finds its origins in the extremely human tendency to anthropomophize their surroundings so as to make them less frightening. The Amarrian god is not an anthropomorphism. There is nothing human about it. Everything that's described about it gives the impression of an alien monster. Originally by: Aria Jenneth But, the Amarr look there and see only glory. Which is the reason their ideology is so monstrous. Originally by: Aria Jenneth Neither does yours. I have no faith. Originally by: Aria Jenneth They haven't destroyed reality yet Not for lack of trying. Originally by: Aria Jenneth "Dangerous" does not mean "morally corrupt," Andreus. Of course it doesn't. The Amarrians are merely both. Originally by: Aria Jenneth Very well; I don't really blame you for following your faith in "fundamental human rights," either. It is not a faith. Originally by: Aria Jenneth Precisely. You may have not noticed in your anger over what you seem to consider to be my unconscionable defense of the Amarr All defence of the Amarr is unconscionable. Anyone who does not actively array themselves in opposition to the Amarr supports them simply by inaction. Originally by: Aria Jenneth The Amarr should be held back from further conquests Fortunately, capsuleers themselves seem to be acting as suitable executors of this neccessity at the present moment. Amarrian Providence is over, and Amarrian Querious will never be a reality. There will likely come a time, however, when this relatively nonchalant opposition of their animalistic tendencies will no longer suffice. Originally by: Aria Jenneth exposed to other peoples and ideas without having the opportunity to enslave them Impractical. Originally by: Aria Jenneth and encouraged in one way or another to follow the more reformist-minded in their midst Impossible. Originally by: Aria Jenneth This should persist until their desire for violent conquest is blunted for good. Unattainable. The desire is endemic and fundamental to their culture itself. Originally by: Aria Jenneth See, Andreus, this is exactly why I can never bring myself to just walk away from you when you're making grumpy faces at me. You're just so cute! You sound just as banal and fundamentally worthless as IzzyChan. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.11 23:04:00 - [60] Out of curiosity, is Ixiris on drop or exile ?
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.11 23:20:00 - [61] Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 11/06/2011 23:20:18 Originally by: Lyn Farel Out of curiosity, is Ixiris on drop or exile ? Actually, the only booster I've used in the past year is synth Blue Pill, and that was during a particularly hairy encounter with some Sleepers. But I have noticed how many Amarrians have an interesting obsession with drugs. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Alpha Wolfgang Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.12 00:50:00 - [62] i don't know that much about the Amarr common faith, but is it based on the Eve Gate? if so, then there has to be some historical significance to it... also it IS the largest and most powerful nation in the known universe. so i have to say, well done Amarr.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.12 00:54:00 - [63] Originally by: Alpha Wolfgang i don't know that much about the Amarr common faith, but is it based on the Eve Gate? No, that would be the faith of the Sisters of EVE. SoE faith is no less deluded than any other religion, but has, entirely unlike the Amarrian religion, bestowed some good upon the world. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Alpha Wolfgang Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.12 01:14:00 - [64] does the Amarr faith tell them to take slaves?
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.06.12 01:57:00 - [65] I'm not sure how the scriptures regard slavery. It is said that those who need to be brought to the light of God most be put in the holy bonds of slavery. What if these holy bonds are not literal slavery, but a metaphor for human nature? What if all of us are in the holy bonds of slavery; what if we are all slaves to sin and human nature? Can anyone more learned in Amarrian theology discuss this with me? Unity Prevails.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.12 07:13:00 - [66] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris The desire [for violent conquest] is endemic and fundamental to their culture itself. Oh. Okay. Well, that's all right, then. Let's just exterminate them all. How disgusting. Andreus, do you remember when Vikarion "outed" your genocidal intentions towards the Caldari? You denied the allegations, of course, but I knew they were true. Vikarion revealed to me your enthusiastic jump into the ideological honey pot he set out for you almost as soon as you'd made it. So, like Verin, though for different reasons, I knew he was telling the truth. I didn't want to believe it, of course. But I knew it was true. These sentiments of yours with regard to the Amarr? They're cut from the same cloth as your justifications for genocide against my people. Inherent this and that, in opposition to all that, by you, is good and right. For a while, I dared to hope that you had changed lastingly and for the better. It seems that I was mistaken in that hope. Due to your absolute certainty and your closeness to human affairs, you have become a toxic entity, one who, through capsuleer dementia or through some native fault, has come to the point where atrocity is easily justified. This is "toxic" because your views are a disgrace to the very entities you claim to support. You poison their purpose, and you poison all of us capsuleers as a class by becoming the very image of what all humans should fear from us. You utter and absolute fool. Well, at least I have someone to point to when people ask me why I left the State. For the record, it was to avoid being put in a position where I might reach the same emotionally-charged conclusions as you have: that the Gallente are irredeemable, their culture a toxin spreading throughout the cluster, and the only way to protect what I find to be of worth in this universe is to seek your absolute destruction as a culture. You appear to be, at this moment, the very horror show I stepped back in order to avoid becoming. The missing link? As far as I'm aware, you haven't actually started glassing planets, yet. Now, I'm fully expecting you to find some reason not to listen. Perhaps you'll cast my impression of your intentions as extreme, or launch into a bit more ad hominem. Whatever it is, I really don't care. If you are anything like what you now appear to be, you have joined the ranks of those who make their own causes difficult to support: a zealot worse than Rodj Blake, and hopefully much more of a clown, because clownishness might just be your last hope. I do not judge people lightly, Andreus, as you should know by now. So when I say that you have become something poisonous to the Gallente and to your fellow capsuleers hopefully you understand the seriousness with which I say it. While I do not expect you to listen, you have been known to surprise in the past, and so I say it here and now: Wake up! You are no longer fit to serve any group of humanity, if you ever were. Your judgment, like mine, is devoid of empathy and therefore inherently suspect when it comes to dealing with humans. If you can step back, you must, for the sake of the very things you love.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.12 08:17:00 - [67] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 12/06/2011 08:17:46 Originally by: Alpha Wolfgang does the Amarr faith tell them to take slaves? The Scriptures tell us to Reclaim that which has been lost. As such, we have a God-given duty to bring those who have deserted Him back into His loving embrace. If people are unwilling to be Reclaimed, then slavery provides a mechanism for it. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Tvastar	Posted - 2011.06.12 08:33:00 - [68] Edited by: Tvastar on 12/06/2011 08:34:05 The invisible Amarrian Deity is the all powerful spiritual entity. We know this because he is capable of being invisible and a Deity at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Amarrian Deity is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that there is an Amarrian Deity; we logically know that he is invisible because we can't see him - to paraphrase the great Steve Eley
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.12 09:35:00 - [69] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Originally by: Valerie Valate People and their morals and philosophy are shaped by their planet. They often do seem to be, don't they? It is the way of things. People shape their environment, and are shaped by the environment in return. Trivial examples would be the following: On the warm beaches of Gallente Prime, semi-nudity raises no eyebrows, and Gallenteans have a relaxed view on such things. In the snowy plains of Caldari Prime, semi-nudity is a sign of madness or terminal hypothermia, and Caldari have an entirely different view on such things as a result. How does a bird explain gliding and powered flight to a fish? It cannot. The fish cannot explain buoyancy and electrosensing to the bird either. _________________________________________
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.12 11:03:00 - [70] Edited by: Lyn Farel on 12/06/2011 11:06:22 Originally by: Alpha Wolfgang does the Amarr faith tell them to take slaves? No. Originally by: Rek Jaiga I'm not sure how the scriptures regard slavery. It is said that those who need to be brought to the light of God most be put in the holy bonds of slavery. What if these holy bonds are not literal slavery, but a metaphor for human nature? What if all of us are in the holy bonds of slavery; what if we are all slaves to sin and human nature? Can anyone more learned in Amarrian theology discuss this with me? Nothing such is stated in the Scriptures. Slavery is a matter of traditions, not religion. "As Garrulor rules the skies; as Frisceas rules the sea; As Emperor rules Holder; as Holder rules Serf; Yet all under Heaven serve Me; So shall Amarr rule the worlds of the Heavens. - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 3.19 - 3.21" Many other quotes can be relevant here in this case (as the Scriptures are the biggest encyclopedia of all times), though this one is the most relevant. Slavery is never mentionned in the core dogma. Slavery is a mere interpretation anchored in traditions. This quote is very fundamental in the sense that you can only fully understand it when you take it in the context of the main purpose of the Scriptures, but yet again we come here to personnal interpretations, as usual.
Sinjin Mokk Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.06.12 11:34:00 - [71] It should be mentioned though that the interpretation of the Scriptures is not based on the opinions of any individual, but are dictated by a body of scholars who can draw on centuries of experiance in the interpretation of the Scriptures. Changes to how we interpret the Scriptures are generally brought forth by the Theology Council and not by the opinions of individuals or other groups. Traditionally, disobediance to the editcs of the Council is tantamount to heresy. While there is current debate on this aspect of the scriptures, the Theology Council has yet to reverse it's position. Change in the Empire is often glacial. And while we have many detractors, the Amarr method of government has lead to the development of the largest, most sucessful government in history. This leads many Amarr to (perhaps rightfully) believe that, "if it aint broke, don't try n fix it." New Tales of the Dark Amarr
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.12 16:36:00 - [72] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Drivel. When you've stopped sounding like an alarmist tabloid, we can continue this conversation. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.12 17:50:00 - [73] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Aria Jenneth Drivel. When you've stopped sounding like an alarmist tabloid, we can continue this conversation. "Alarmist?" More "alarmed," I should think, which I am. Ever since I started the Children of Naught writings, the thing I have dreaded most is a capsuleer, deeply involved in the Emyprean War or the wider conflicts surrounding it, deciding that the only reasonable approach to the other side is to extinguish it forever. We've seen a few of those, but, in general, even Ushra'Khan has managed to maintain a degree of balance. They seem to go as far as "bomb 'em 'til they cry uncle," but no further. You? Keep your balance? ... from the looks of things, not so much. Andreus, I'm a demented infomorph, a kinslayer, a member of a criminal organization that gives your dear Federation no end of trouble (and which traffics in humans, I might add), a pirate, and an unrepentant skeptic of your beloved democratic principles. And yet the thing I did that apparently lost me your oh-so-dear regard is that I can think of something nice to say about the Amarr. Do you even begin to understand how bizarre that reaction is? How much it says about your own stability? What you are capable of? The future of our kind is far from ensured, Andreus. I make it my purpose to protect that future, as far as I am able. You? Well, it may be hyperbolic to say that you are an unusually large threat to that future, but you do seem to be a threat. And you're also a sometime friend, of sorts. So yes, that's alarming.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.12 18:47:00 - [74] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Ever since I started the Children of Naught writings, the thing I have dreaded most is a capsuleer, deeply involved in the Emyprean War or the wider conflicts surrounding it Originally by: Aria Jenneth Andreus, I'm a demented infomorph, a kinslayer Originally by: Aria Jenneth You? Keep your balance? ... from the looks of things, not so much. This is because you're an idiot. Just because you are incapable of thinking of yourself as a rational human being, it doesn't mean the rest of us are. Maybe if being a capsuleer is causing you self-image issues, you should take up a different line of work. Originally by: Aria Jenneth a criminal organization that gives your dear Federation no end of trouble Not really. Originally by: Aria Jenneth an unrepentant skeptic of your beloved democratic principles Your mistake, not mine. Originally by: Aria Jenneth And yet the thing I did that apparently lost me your oh-so-dear regard is that I can think of something nice to say about the Amarr. Which is what happens when you defend the most dangerous, second-to-least defensible political entity in the cluster. Originally by: Aria Jenneth Do you even begin to understand how bizarre that reaction is? It's perfectly logical. Criminal activity and clinical insanity is common. Wanting to destroy humanity is pretty rare (and most people who want it are amusing and a little bit pathetic; see Koronakesh). Originally by: Aria Jenneth How much it says about your own stability? What you are capable of? Perfectly stable. Capable of anything I seriously put my mind to. Originally by: Aria Jenneth The future of our kind is far from ensured, Andreus. Especially if the Amarr have anything to say about it. Originally by: Aria Jenneth You? Well, it may be hyperbolic to say that you are an unusually large threat to that future, but you do seem to be a threat. Come and do something about it, then. Originally by: Aria Jenneth And you're also a sometime friend, of sorts. No I'm not. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Alpha Wolfgang Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.12 20:57:00 - [75] soo, Amarr faith doesnt tell to take slaves... why are people bashing the Amarr faith for some slavery then? blame culture instead of faith, blame people who take slaves instead of the faith. that sure is 'freedom and equality' from the Gallente!
Dilaro thagriin	Posted - 2011.06.12 21:50:00 - [76] Originally by: Alpha Wolfgang soo, Amarr faith doesnt tell to take slaves... why are people bashing the Amarr faith for some slavery then? blame culture instead of faith, blame people who take slaves instead of the faith. that sure is 'freedom and equality' from the Gallente! Simple. While their scriptures may not order them to take slaves, oh so many of those lovely ammarian types seem to think, beyond all manner of reason and logic, that the scriptures tell them to do exactly that. there are many in this thread alone who claim it is their 'divine duty' to enslave any who are not amarrian, and 'show them' the light of their dear fluffy lord. I do not hold to their beliefs, though they attempted to force them upon me and i will, in my own way, fight to restore the tribes to their rightful place. For the Elders, For Matari.
Caviar Liberta Gallente Moira.	Posted - 2011.06.12 23:44:00 - [77] Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural right
Tvastar	Posted - 2011.06.13 00:54:00 - [78] Originally by: Caviar Liberta Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. The question is meaningless. Free minded, what a revolting expression. They don't have a mind to call there own - their minds are the possessions of the invisible Amarrian deity sill boy. The only true freedom is the freedom to choose not to be free - and they will imprison you until you realize that simple fact for yourself, that's what I call magnanimity. All the others are either too willful and are ipso facto not Amarrian, and so exclude themselves from the empire, or not able to act on that will and await an epiphany in the care of their gentle Amarrian teachers, naturally.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2011.06.13 00:56:00 - [79] Originally by: Caviar Liberta Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. They're about. Louella Dougans, if I remember, is a good (if ... eccentric) example of a more liberal Amarrian. Quieter abolitionists can be hard to distinguish from other Amarr, since their views can get some of the conservatives muttering about heresy, but it does seem that the movement is gathering strength. I understand the Empress herself has hinted that the time of slavery is nearing its end in the Empire. Louder abolitionists tend to leave the empire outright. Some of these apostates, such as Kazzzi, seem to have more hatred for the Empire than most Matari.
Evet Morrel Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.06.13 02:10:00 - [80] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Originally by: Caviar Liberta Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. They're about. Louella Dougans, if I remember, is a good (if ... eccentric) example of a more liberal Amarrian. Quieter abolitionists can be hard to distinguish from other Amarr, since their views can get some of the conservatives muttering about heresy, but it does seem that the movement is gathering strength. I understand the Empress herself has hinted that the time of slavery is nearing its end in the Empire. Louder abolitionists tend to leave the empire outright. Some of these apostates, such as Kazzzi, seem to have more hatred for the Empire than most Matari. Quite so, she has - those that are antagonistic run a terrible risk, only capsuleers have the independence to express such sentiments. Sentiments that are impossible to voice in public elsewhere in the Empire. One can see strenuous efforts by conservatives to appease reformers, but they have yet enforce any real protection, such as the right to life, for those they claim in the name of their faith. A faith/truth that it appears is not strong or beautiful enough to attract followers by virtue of its own transcendental truth - instead relying on brute force.
Haaranovor tenn Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.06.13 03:31:00 - [81] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Sinjin Mokk While the moral degeneracy required to conceive of running an Empire on a religion is sickening to behold, it would not be my concern if that religion did not also give you the utterly preposterous delusion you were either obligated or entitled to interfere with the development and affairs of other civilizations. This is what transforms your civilization from a sad example of the folly of theocracy to an active and dangerous nuisance to the world, one that would be better off shattered to a point where it could no longer poison the soil. We are not perfect, but we have purpose. "There's a very fine line between not listening, and not caring. I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."
Tiberious Thessalonia Amarr Lonestar Distribution Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.13 05:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Caviar Liberta Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. Hi. If you spent more time out of the chest-beating cesspool that is the IGS and more time meeting capsuleers in real time, you would know that there are enough of us that I have heard some more conservative types start to mutter about us. We are here, we are not hiding, our views are there to view. Does this make us heretics? I don't think so. We just have different methods, I think. Better ones, in my opinion.
Sinjin Mokk Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium	Posted - 2011.06.13 06:47:00 - [83] Originally by: Caviar Liberta Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. A wise Amarrian liberal is one who does not voice his or her opinions too openly in public. An Amarr who wishes to become a political or religious firebrand, usually has his wishes granted...at the stake. It is not our way to openly quibble amongst ourselves where outsiders can see or hear. There are exceptions. And forums such as this tend to enable a certain lack of ideological solidarity. But even if we sometimes let decorum slip, we all know which way the laser fires. New Tales of the Dark Amarr
Caviar Liberta Gallente Moira.	Posted - 2011.06.13 08:24:00 - [84] I see Mr. Thessalonia and Mr. Mokk have a mutual agreement on this topic even if they might have worded it differently. I agree with Thessalonia in that in order to find what I'm looking for, it will require some active searching beyond IGS. I was planet side for a while and came back to unique situation that had only became aware of upon my return to the pod. As to the point of the quote of the originator of this communique, it is in my opinion that such statements made in a less open society would have had such a man labeled as treasonous and excommunicated or worse, hunted down and killed. Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural right
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 14:18:00 - [85] Originally by: Sinjin Mokk It should be mentioned though that the interpretation of the Scriptures is not based on the opinions of any individual, but are dictated by a body of scholars who can draw on centuries of experiance in the interpretation of the Scriptures. Changes to how we interpret the Scriptures are generally brought forth by the Theology Council and not by the opinions of individuals or other groups. Traditionally, disobediance to the editcs of the Council is tantamount to heresy. While there is current debate on this aspect of the scriptures, the Theology Council has yet to reverse it's position. Change in the Empire is often glacial. And while we have many detractors, the Amarr method of government has lead to the development of the largest, most sucessful government in history. This leads many Amarr to (perhaps rightfully) believe that, "if it aint broke, don't try n fix it." This view sounds somewhat naive to me. Interpretations of the Scriptures are a matter of politics and tools. When we come to institutionnal bodies governing through religion, we have to deal with something totally different : dogma, and not personnal faith and pilgrimage. And dogma is about traditions and official mindsets. It is also justified in the usual orthodox interpretation by the famous text speaking of "Uniform Thought" being the way of life. And, the correct full sentence is : "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. Try to make it better." Because denying this is denying the very core fundamental principle of the Scriptures. Originally by: Dilaro thagriin their dear fluffy lord. Fluffy ? This depiction is highly amusing. But more seriously, why fluffy ? Originally by: Caviar Liberta Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. Everywhere. Look around and you will find them. You have already found one. I think. Though I am no abolitionist. Originally by: Tvastar Edited by: Tvastar on 13/06/2011 00:57:55 Originally by: Caviar Liberta Edited by: Caviar Liberta on 12/06/2011 23:46:21 After reading at length the communique and replies I have a simple question for you. Where are the liberal thinkers, critical thinks and free minded members of the Amarr society. Where are the abolitionist that must surely exist in such a large and old empire as the Amarrian. The question is meaningless. Free minded, what a revolting expression. They don't have a mind to call there own - their minds are the possessions of the invisible Amarrian deity silly boy. The only true freedom is the freedom to choose not to be free - and they will enslave you until you realize that simple fact for yourself, that's what I call magnanimity. The rest are either too willful and are ipso facto not Amarrian, and so exclude themselves from the empire, or not powerful enough to act on that impulse and await an epiphany in the care of their gentle Amarrian teachers, naturally. Nonsense.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.13 15:37:00 - [86] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 13/06/2011 15:43:28 Originally by: Aria Jenneth, directed at Andreus Ixiris If you are anything like what you now appear to be, you have joined the ranks of those who make their own causes difficult to support: a zealot worse than Rodj Blake... I can confirm that Andreus is a worse zealot than me. He's rubbish when it comes to zealotry. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 15:48:00 - [87] Originally by: Rodj Blake I can confirm that Andreus is a worse zealot than me. He's rubbish when it comes to zealotry. Confirming that I am far too intelligent and clear-minded to be a zealot. Even Rodj Blake agrees. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:10:00 - [88] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Rodj Blake I can confirm that Andreus is a worse zealot than me. He's rubbish when it comes to zealotry. Confirming that I am far too intelligent and clear-minded to be a zealot. Even Rodj Blake agrees. Zealotry does not require a lack of intelligence, it merely requires extreme dedication to a person, cause or ideal. I will suggest that you zealously advertise and support your claim to atheism, as well as consistently insist that your viewpoint is the only logical and rational one. zeal [zeel] ûnoun fervor for a person, cause, or object; eager desire or endeavor; enthusiastic diligence; ardor. --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:17:00 - [89] Originally by: Raze Valadeus Zealotry does not require a lack of intelligence, it merely requires extreme dedication to a person, cause or ideal. I will suggest that you zealously advertise and support your claim to atheism, as well as consistently insist that your viewpoint is the only logical and rational one. But it is. That's the advantage of logic and rationality - they do, on occasion, provide a single answer. I can't help it if religious people are too stupid to see that. It isn't my fault that I'm right. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:27:00 - [90] Originally by: Rek Jaiga I'm not sure how the scriptures regard slavery. It is said that those who need to be brought to the light of God most be put in the holy bonds of slavery. What if these holy bonds are not literal slavery, but a metaphor for human nature? What if all of us are in the holy bonds of slavery; what if we are all slaves to sin and human nature? Can anyone more learned in Amarrian theology discuss this with me? Mr. Jaiga, As your question and interest seem sincere, I would be happy to meet and talk with you. I do not claim to be a master theologian that will have all of the answers and be the final authority on all things Amarrian, but I am willing to at least share what I do now and how I understand the Scriptures with you. If you are interested in meeting with me, simply send me an eve mail or open a channel with me any time I am at the neocomm. With sincerity, --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:28:00 - [91] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Raze Valadeus Zealotry does not require a lack of intelligence, it merely requires extreme dedication to a person, cause or ideal. I will suggest that you zealously advertise and support your claim to atheism, as well as consistently insist that your viewpoint is the only logical and rational one. But it is. That's the advantage of logic and rationality - they do, on occasion, provide a single answer. I can't help it if religious people are too stupid to see that. It isn't my fault that I'm right. If you really think that the Amarrian viewpoint is neither logical nor rational, then you clearly don't have the mental faculty to understand it. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:34:00 - [92] Originally by: Rodj Blake If you really think that the Amarrian viewpoint is neither logical nor rational, then you clearly don't have the mental faculty to understand it. You believe in an invisible, magical alien monster that has the capacity to torture you after you die. Pleaes don't even use the words "logical" or "rational" in sentences you write - the very misfortune of being spoken by you degrades them. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:34:00 - [93] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Raze Valadeus Zealotry does not require a lack of intelligence, it merely requires extreme dedication to a person, cause or ideal. I will suggest that you zealously advertise and support your claim to atheism, as well as consistently insist that your viewpoint is the only logical and rational one. But it is. That's the advantage of logic and rationality - they do, on occasion, provide a single answer. I can't help it if religious people are too stupid to see that. It isn't my fault that I'm right. See hypocrisy. Also zealotry. Your own words prove my point better than I ever could. --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:38:00 - [94] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Rodj Blake If you really think that the Amarrian viewpoint is neither logical nor rational, then you clearly don't have the mental faculty to understand it. You believe in an invisible Incorrect. Originally by: Andreus Ixiris , magical Incorrect. Originally by: Andreus Ixiris alien Incorrect. Originally by: Andreus Ixiris monster Incorrect. Originally by: Andreus Ixiris that has the capacity to torture you after you die. Capacity? Sure. Your understanding of the core principle behind this entity is flawed, however. Incorrect. --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:42:00 - [95] Originally by: Raze Valadeus Incorrect. Simply saying that something is incorrect does not make it so. Everything described about your... "god" gives it the characteristics of an invisible, magical alien monster, and that is precisely what it is. Believing in it basically excludes rationality and logic from your vocabulary, so please find some other words to use. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:44:00 - [96] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Raze Valadeus Incorrect. Simply saying that something is incorrect does not make it so. Everything described about your... "god" gives it the characteristics of an invisible, magical alien monster, and that is precisely what it is. Believing in it basically excludes rationality and logic from your vocabulary, so please find some other words to use. Ah, more irony. You are the same individual who discounted another's argument against you with a single word and when asked to expound, you declined using yet another single word. Allow me to put that in terms you'll understand. Incorrect. --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:59:00 - [97] The fact is, I was actually right. Here's the advantage I will always have over Amarrians: I happen to live in reality, and reality doesn't change because Amarrians think it does. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:06:00 - [98] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris The fact is, I was actually right. Here's the advantage I will always have over Amarrians: I happen to live in reality, and reality doesn't change because Amarrians think it does. It is clearly a complete waste of time even attempting to speak with you. Your argument is flawed on so many levels I don't even know where to start, it's a catastrophe. So instead, I will simply say that "reality is not defined by you, reality does not yield to your viewpoint just because you think it does." I'm done with you. --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:08:00 - [99] Originally by: Raze Valadeus So instead, I will simply say that "reality is not defined by you, reality does not yield to your viewpoint just because you think it does." Thank you for reiterating my point about Amarrians. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:37:00 - [100] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris The fact is, I was actually right. Here's the advantage I will always have over Amarrians: I happen to live in reality, and reality doesn't change because Amarrians think it does. Essentially your argument is "I'm right, because I say I am." Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:43:00 - [101] Going back to the analogy I used previously, Andreus is a bird telling a fish that they should be ashamed at not being a bird, and should end their existence, because fish cannot fly, and being a bird is the only existence worth living. Which is foolish, and means Andreus is, unfortunately, one of those people there is just no point in talking to. _________________________________________
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:43:00 - [102] Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 13/06/2011 17:44:40 Originally by: Rodj Blake Essentially your argument is "I'm right, because I say I am." No, that would be the Amarrian argument. I'm right because my view happens to be based on reality, not the other way around. Originally by: Valerie Valate Going back to the analogy I used previously, Andreus is a bird telling a fish that they should be ashamed at not being a bird, and should end their existence, because fish cannot fly, and being a bird is the only existence worth living. No, actually, I'm an albatross telling a whale that there's no such thing as giant space whales and would they kindly stop trying to eat all the fish who don't believe in giant space wh... Give me a minute, that metaphor didn't really work very well. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Kithrus Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:57:00 - [103] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 13/06/2011 17:44:40 Originally by: Rodj Blake Essentially your argument is "I'm right, because I say I am." No, that would be the Amarrian argument. I'm right because my view happens to be based on reality, not the other way around. Originally by: Valerie Valate Going back to the analogy I used previously, Andreus is a bird telling a fish that they should be ashamed at not being a bird, and should end their existence, because fish cannot fly, and being a bird is the only existence worth living. No, actually, I'm an albatross telling a whale that there's no such thing as giant space whales and would they kindly stop trying to eat all the fish who don't believe in giant space wh... Give me a minute, that metaphor didn't really work very well. I find it an interesting point that Andreus Ixiris feels people who believe in religion are insane where as us who believe in a God or other deity just think hes wrong. Who sounds less tolerant?
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:05:00 - [104] There is a reason why the Amarr were the first to come out of the dark ages, the first to reinvent star travel, the most technologically advanced and the owners of the largest empire in the galaxy. Our religion. Religion united us. While Gallente and Caldari fought each other and while the Minmatar fought themselves we were expanding rapidly, as well as advancing in all aspects. You Atheist are constantly at war with each other, it's hard to keep track of your puny empires that keep rising and falling. Where as we remain whole for thousands of years because of our beliefs. At least the Caldari got some common sense. You Gallente claim to be peaceful but routinely nuke civilians from orbit. And you say we lack moral decency. The attack by Uriam Kador was just the beginning, soon you will see the wrath of God. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:16:00 - [105] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire There is a reason why the Amarr were the first to come out of the dark ages, the first to reinvent star travel, the most technologically advanced and the owners of the largest empire in the galaxy. Our religion. Religion united us. While Gallente and Caldari fought each other and while the Minmatar fought themselves we were expanding rapidly, as well as advancing in all aspects. You Atheist are constantly at war with each other, it's hard to keep track of your puny empires that keep rising and falling. Where as we remain whole for thousands of years because of our beliefs. At least the Caldari got some common sense. You Gallente claim to be peaceful but routinely nuke civilians from orbit. And you say we lack moral decency. The attack by Uriam Kador was just the beginning, soon you will see the wrath of God. With all due respect Sir Midwestshire, This discussion has little to do with the unity and purpose of government bodies. To suggest that everyone with the Federation is an atheist in need of burning is a gross misrepresentation of the Federation as a whole. Beyond that, Mister Ixiris is hardly a representative of the Gallente people as a whole, no matter how much he may wish to believe himself so. He is one individual, speaking as an individual against a group of people. If you wish to defend your kin from his attacks, then defend them without attacking another group of people in the process - otherwise you become just like the very person you're attempting to argue with. Other than that, I agree that faith brings unity among our people and that our collective unity has helped us achieve much of what we have achieved. --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Ilah Gruhbarn	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:17:00 - [106] Edited by: Ilah Gruhbarn on 13/06/2011 18:17:38 Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire fake and ignorant. jove was the first go back to school. amarr is in war constantly and is did spill blood of millions for they agenda go back to school. only thing what is falling is amarr empire it is all and stagnant go back to school. neither gallente nor caldari nor minmatar are risen than fall,on the other hand failure against jove and minmatar might tell something,go back to school. and do go back to school outside borders of empire because only thing they learn you there is drivel and how to commit genocide. on that note i am wandering just at what age you start learning your children how to whip slave,kill,starve to death if slave is to weak to perform optimally?
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:25:00 - [107] Originally by: Raze Valadeus Words I see where I was wrong Mr. Valadeus, I tend to act irrational when the religion I would die for is persecuted so unfairly. On the other hand though, that message was mostly directed to the Gallente that supported what the ambassador said. I in all honesty, do not feel that all Gallenteans are like him, however the ones that agree with the ambassador are the ones that I despise. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:28:00 - [108] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire There is a reason why the Amarr were the first to come out of the dark ages Wrong. That would be the Jovians. At the very least, the Sleepers, Yan Jung, Takmahl and Talocan also beat you to it. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire the first to reinvent star travel Again, wrong. The Jovians, Sleepers, Yan Jung, Takmahl and Talcoan beat you to that, as well. It looks like the Sleepers and/or the Talocan also managed to develop a form of gateless interstellar travel not requiring multiple star systems that, until very recently, was entirely lost to us. We developed the warp drive before you. You were also presented with an almost-functional stargate - we had to make do with miniscule scraps of debris. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire the most technologically advanced Entirely incorrect. The Amarr have always, without a single notable exception thus far, been the last to embrace any technological advance. Cloaking, freighters, jump drives, capital ships, strategic cruisers. The Amarr only developed the warp drive two hundred years ago. We co-developed it with the Caldari half a millenia ago - admittedly, they were the ones who laid most of the foundations for the technology. The reverse was true of the development of faster-than-light communication - the Federation did most of the heavy lifting on that account, but the Caldari helped. We managed in five hundred years the expansion and technological advancement it took you two thousand to accomplish, and the Federation was able to colonise an area of space comparable to that of the core of the Empire. Even the armour nanotechnology that currently empowers your Navy was stolen wholesale from the Minmatar who were responsible for its initial development. When you launched your inexcusable invasion of the Minmatar Empire, you razed hundreds of years of their technological progress in less than a decade. And for what purpose? The Empire lags behind in almost every technological front because of its prohibitive, backwards Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire religion. The only area in which the Amarrians show any innovation or technological superiority whatsoever is in power generation and supply, and that was merely out of neccessity to power your ridiculously inefficient and power-hungry weaponry. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Religion united us. Except when it didn't. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire While Gallente and Caldari fought each other And both managed became stronger, better societes in spite of it. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire and while the Minmatar fought themselves A lie told my Amarrian propagandists to justify the unjustifiable. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire we were expanding rapidly Two thousand years to do what we did in five hundred. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire You Atheist are constantly at war with each other, it's hard to keep track of your puny empires that keep rising and falling. We're the Gallente Federation. We've been around for a good few centuries now. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Where as we remain whole for thousands of years because of our beliefs. In the past three centuries you lost nearly a third of your territory. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire You Gallente claim to be peaceful but routinely nuke civilians from orbit. The Starkmanir and the other native race of Mishi IV would like to talk to you. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:36:00 - [109] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire And you say we lack moral decency. You and your entire misbegotten empire are utterly devoid of it, yes. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire The attack by Uriam Kador was just the beginning, soon you will see the wrath of God. Would that be the same attack, you clinical moron, that was utterly unsanctioned by the Amarr Empire and so decisively, flawlessly and humiliatingly crushed by the Federation Navy that it caused such embarassment to the Empire as to force Jamyl Sarum to publicly apologise to the Federation and strip Uriam Kador of what tiny shreds of a fleet he had left after we were finsihed with it? The Kador fleet was utterly massacred by the Federation. The Navy barely even broke a sweat and that was before a Navy Erebus appeared and sealed the deal. But please, if all your invasions are that successful, start launching more. The cluster needs some entertainment. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire I tend to act irrational when the religion I would die for is persecuted so unfairly. None of what I've said about your religion has been the least bit unfair. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire On the other hand though, that message was mostly directed to the Gallente Intaki. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire that supported what the ambassador said. I in all honesty, do not feel that all Gallenteans are like him, however the ones that agree with the ambassador are the ones that I despise. Do something about it then. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:51:00 - [110] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris words As I said in my above post, it is neither confirmed nor denied as to whether or not the date the Jovians made it out. If we are not so technologically advanced, how come the Gallente still use railguns, the Caldari still use rockets, and the Minmatar still use bullets (all were invented for military purposes on earth 20,000 years ago) Where as we Amarr, militarized the laser. We also have some Terran tech that we are reverse engineering as we speak. That weapon that destroyed an entire Minmatar fleet in one blast yet is small enough to fit onto a battleship is only the start. As with any society there are setbacks in unity. However the Amarr empire still remains the most stable out of all of the others. Gallente and Caldari better societies? Gallenteans toot the civil liberties horn yet commit some of the worse acts of torture. and the Caldari is ruled by an insane dictator. Look at the map, 40% of the Galaxy is ours. Your puny empire isn't even half that. You would be as large as we are in 2000 years if you didn't keep having civil wars. A few centuries? Congrats, we've been around for a few millenniums. And in the past three centuries you lost half of yours. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Raze Valadeus Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:51:00 - [111] I advise against responding to anything Mister Ixiris says. It is intended entirely to goad further response and inflate his own ego. Nothing will be gained by further discussion with him and the continued arguments are simply a method of chest-beating. To be quite frank, this entire topic of conversation was to illicit a response that could then be further attacked and we've played into it. --------------- ~Raze Valadeus
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 18:56:00 - [112] Originally by: Raze Valadeus I advise against responding to anything Mister Ixiris says. It is intended entirely to goad further response and inflate his own ego. Nothing will be gained by further discussion with him and the continued arguments are simply a method of chest-beating. To be quite frank, this entire topic of conversation was to illicit a response that could then be further attacked and we've played into it. I agree Valadeus. His logic is rather impotent to be honest. His aggressive way of replying to our responses only proves the point that the Gallente aren't as nice as they try to make it sound. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.13 19:07:00 - [113] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire the first to reinvent star travel Again, wrong. The Jovians, Sleepers, Yan Jung, Takmahl and Talcoan beat you to that, as well. The Takmahl were members of the Amarr Empire on Athra, before being exiled shortly after the Amarr regained space travel. _________________________________________
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 19:25:00 - [114] Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 13/06/2011 19:28:34 Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire As I said in my above post, it is neither confirmed nor denied as to whether or not the date the Jovians made it out. WRONG! There are Jovian ruins in Curse which predate the Empire by several centuries. You also completely ignored the fact that there are four other civilizations that verifiably predate the Amarr Empire because it is inconvenient to your argument. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire If we are not so technologically advanced, how come the Gallente still use railguns Because they're a proven, energy-efficient long range ordinance delivery system. We also invented drones - autonomous combat spacecraft, the technology of which, you will no doubt notice, the Amarr have made low-grade imitations of for their own purposes. In actual fact, the Caldari are more geared towards railguns than the Gallente - we prefer particle blasters, a very powerful, high-tech ordinance delivery system that in terms of sheer energy delivery outperforms any other close-range weapons platform available. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire the Caldari still use rockets Guided missiles, actually. They're a very intelligent concept, actually - a munition that can change its course if your target does. Can your lasers do that? Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire and the Minmatar still use bullets Which remain a very energy-efficient method of delivering a high volume of ordinance even to this day. You will notice that the Minmatar are very technologically capable, but do not hesitate to use low-tech solutions where the Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire (all were invented for military purposes on earth 20,000 years ago) That's some very impressive knowledge that you couldn't possibly know for sure yourself. (( IC/OOC information divide. Learn it. )) Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Where as we Amarr, militarized the laser. Every civilization has militarised the laser. It's just that... well, it's not a very efficient weapon system. There are better weapons out there. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire We also have some Terran tech that we are reverse engineering as we speak. That weapon that destroyed an entire Minmatar fleet in one blast yet is small enough to fit onto a battleship is only the start. Yes, where is that lately? It's only been used once. One suspects if it hasn't been used in three years, you might no longer be able to use it. You may no longer even possess it. But who can say? The fact is, you didn't develop it yourself. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire the Caldari is ruled by an insane dictator. Well that's one thing we can agree on. But so are you. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Look at the map, 40% of the Galaxy is ours. Your puny empire isn't even half that. That would be cluster, not galaxy. Incidentally, there are over 5,100 accessible systems in the EVE cluster, and the Amarr Empire controls a mere 710 of them. Do the math. Hint: it isn't 40%. And yet the Amarr have never been able to pose a serious military threat to us. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire A few centuries? Congrats, we've been around for a few millenniums. Only a tiny fraction of which you actually spent outside your home system. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire And in the past three centuries you lost half of yours. Actually, if you look at the history books, the majority of the territory now controlled by the Caldari State never belonged to the Federation in the first place. You ignored a number of other points I made. The other guy was right. You definitely need to go back to school, idiot. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Ilah Gruhbarn	Posted - 2011.06.13 19:38:00 - [115] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Edited by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire on 13/06/2011 18:36:04 Originally by: Raze Valadeus Words some more stuff my apologies hand held device and me while in motion is recipe for mess on here i meant so say old and stagnant... not that is matter not being able to find(if not know)about jove in archives is proof enough that i can have better luck talking to a stone. your super weapon hit only part of fleet spread across multiple planets(school tip again).and no it wasn't whole fleet as well. you lost to minmatar in rebellion as well or let me guess u just let us go as in like "meh we gonna pop them with our super weapon sometime in future" right.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.13 19:45:00 - [116] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 13/06/2011 17:44:40 Originally by: Rodj Blake Essentially your argument is "I'm right, because I say I am." No, that would be the Amarrian argument. I'm right because my view happens to be based on reality, not the other way around. No. Your view is based on your subjective opinion on what reality is. Objective reality is very different. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 19:56:00 - [117] Originally by: Rodj Blake No. Yes. Originally by: Rodj Blake Your view is based on your subjective opinion on what reality is. Objective reality is very different. Except it isn't. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:00:00 - [118] Edited by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire on 13/06/2011 20:07:54 Originally by: Andreus Ixiris It isn't my fault that I'm right. Your ego is so large it's blocking my view of the discussion. And people say us Amarrians have ego problems. What heresy. Quote: your super weapon hit only part of fleet spread across multiple planets(school tip again).and no it wasn't whole fleet as well. you lost to minmatar in rebellion as well or let me guess u just let us go as in like "meh we gonna pop them with our super weapon sometime in future" right. The super weapon hit a titan, multiple dreadnoughts, multiple super carriers and carriers as well as dozens of sub-cap ships. In other words the entire capital backbone was destroyed in one fatal blow. The rest of the invasion was repelled by the rest of the Navy who easily took aim at scattered Minmatar navy. It was a valiant effort to free your people but nonetheless was futile. Your rebellion hasn't been won yet. We still hold 1/3rd of your people in chains. While you have won quite a bit of ground it's not over yet. Your second assault was repelled and much of the intergalactic community is upset with your attack on CONCORD. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:06:00 - [119] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Your ego is so large it's blocking my view of the discussion. My ego isn't even visible to the naked eye next to your historical and cultural ignorance. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire And people say us Amarrians have ego problems. Well you flat out fabricated a deity - made it up, invented it, lied to everyone that it existed when it didn't - just so that you could say it said you were its chosen servants. That's an ego problem, right there. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire What heresy. There is no such thing as heresy. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:12:00 - [120] Edited by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire on 13/06/2011 20:12:55 Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Well you flat out fabricated a deity - made it up, invented it, lied to everyone that it existed when it didn't - just so that you could say it said you were its chosen servants. That's an ego problem, right there. We may a tough time proving our God is true, but you have no chance in proving he isn't. And plus, it's better to believe in God and find out he doesn't exist than to not believe and find out he does. And once again, you attack our religion. So much for the civil rights you so strongly believe in. In response to something you posted earlier, I ignored what you said because it isn't worth my time to try and counter irrelevant, incorrect, or made up information. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:14:00 - [121] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Rodj Blake No. Yes. Originally by: Rodj Blake Your view is based on your subjective opinion on what reality is. Objective reality is very different. Except it isn't. Yes it is. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:19:00 - [122] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire We may a tough time proving our God is true Tough is generally the kind of time people have when they attempt to prove something that's opposite to what is true. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire but you have no chance in proving he isn't Actually, I once wrote a logically sound proof of the Amarrian God's nonexistence. Amarrians, of course, refuted it without really explaining why it was logically unsound, because it was incompatible with their blinkered worldview. I'm not going to type it out again. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire And plus, it's better to believe in God and find out he doesn't exist than to not believe and find out he does. There are also a number of reasons why the "God wager" which you speak of is a logical falacy - my public relations director, Sahaquiel Faust, explains them a lot better than I do, though. Sufficed to say that no, you're wrong, it isn't better to believe in God and find out he doesn't exist than the opposite. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire And once again, you attack our religion. So much for the civil rights you so strongly believe in. Oh, I'm a big supporter of civil rights. I tend to draw the line at ideologies which intend to destroy humanity. Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire I ignored what you said because it isn't worth my time to try and counter irrelevant, incorrect, or made up information. Except that I provided verifiable citations for most of what I said, so none of it is irrelevant, incorrect or made up - it's all right there in the history books. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Ston Momaki Caldari Disciples of Ston	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:32:00 - [123] The Disciples of Ston are looking for Amarrians who do not believe that the Amarrian theology necessitates slavery as a means to redeem other races. Not all Amarrians are for slavery. The Amarrian faith does not necessitate it, though it integrates it because it is a state policy and practice. The Disciples are looking for Amarrians to work in Amarrian space to spread the truth that a different kind of sacrifice brings redemption; a sacrifice of self from greed, violence, hatred, and unforgiveness.
Ilah Gruhbarn	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:43:00 - [124] Edited by: Ilah Gruhbarn on 13/06/2011 20:45:27 Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Edited by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire on 13/06/2011 20:07:54 Originally by: Andreus Ixiris It isn't my fault that I'm right. Your ego is so large it's blocking my view of the discussion. And people say us Amarrians have ego problems. What heresy. Quote: your super weapon hit only part of fleet spread across multiple planets(school tip again).and no it wasn't whole fleet as well. you lost to minmatar in rebellion as well or let me guess u just let us go as in like "meh we gonna pop them with our super weapon sometime in future" right. The super weapon hit a titan, multiple dreadnoughts, multiple super carriers and carriers as well as dozens of sub-cap ships. In other words the entire capital backbone was destroyed in one fatal blow. The rest of the invasion was repelled by the rest of the Navy who easily took aim at scattered Minmatar navy. It was a valiant effort to free your people but nonetheless was futile. Your rebellion hasn't been won yet. We still hold 1/3rd of your people in chains. While you have won quite a bit of ground it's not over yet. Your second assault was repelled and much of the intergalactic community is upset with your attack on CONCORD. No there was titan with all backbone it need per planet,it was elder fleet not republic one and that fleet wipe out concord and was engaged with bulk of amarr navy fleet for weeks(not that fail attempt of 200 ships you send at jove to get stomped upon) and was doing fine before super weapon that wiped out fleet at one planet rest gone home with untold amount of freed slaves. sorry to burst your bubble btw. fact is that we are only nation that rebel and win and invade your mighty wanna be empire. and from whole fleet destroyed to mayor part of fleet destroyed...what is next? so u failed in shoving knowledge jet again and thus i will not waste my time responding to you.
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:48:00 - [125] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire The super weapon hit a titan, multiple dreadnoughts, multiple super carriers and carriers as well as dozens of sub-cap ships. In other words the entire capital backbone was destroyed in one fatal blow. The rest of the invasion was repelled by the rest of the Navy who easily took aim at scattered Minmatar navy. It was a valiant effort to free your people but nonetheless was futile. Your rebellion hasn't been won yet. We still hold 1/3rd of your people in chains. While you have won quite a bit of ground it's not over yet. Your second assault was repelled and much of the intergalactic community is upset with your attack on CONCORD. We have accessed and assimilated all evidence on this particular subject. While the Elder taskforce designated to the Sarum worlds, suffered crippling damage when a weapon of currently unknown technological base was used against them, this was only one of at least three fleets which were at that time operating within amarrian borders. it is estimated that 98% of the starkmanir and Nefantar tribes were returned to the Matari people, as well as millions of slaves from all corners of the Amarrian empire. While the Elder assault upon CONCORD was in many ways understandable, it was still an illegal act, which bought them approximately 5 hours to perform the impossible task they attempted. yet still, they succeeded. the Imperial navy was involved in a firefight over Sarum Prime, yet, it is reported that they disengaged prior to Jamyl Sarum's entry into the arena of conflict, it was not they who won the day, but a weapon against which a shield oriented defence was impossible. Also, it is to be noted that, even with the direct application of technology developed by non-amarrians, the damage dealt to the fleet operating within the Sarum AOO was not fatal. While still fighting a running rearguard action, they returned to Matari space prior to CONCORD's directive for the 4 empires to cease overt conflict immediately. Your claim that the rebellion has not been won is illogical, and does not follow current CONCORD law. The Matari are accepted as a sovereign entity. one of the four groups to send representatives to the CONCORD council and tribunal, and is recognised as a political and social entity in it's own right. The matari rebellion succeeded after the Amarrian Empire's failed attempt at the invasion of jovian space. a race that, in one single fleet battle, proved that their technology was decades if not centuries in advance of that in use within the cluster at the time. while it is not our place to choose sides on this matter, evidence does seem to show that Sir Oliver Midwestshire is incorrect in many of his assumptions. we would suggest further research be undertaked prior to his continued additions to this particular topic. We Return.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.13 20:55:00 - [126] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris the other native race of Mishi IV If the Amarr wiped them out, how do you know about them ? Originally by: Valerie Valate Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire the first to reinvent star travel Again, wrong. The Jovians, Sleepers, Yan Jung, Takmahl and Talcoan beat you to that, as well. The Takmahl were members of the Amarr Empire on Athra, before being exiled shortly after the Amarr regained space travel. You were incorrect here. Originally by: Andreus Ixiris That's some very impressive knowledge that you couldn't possibly know for sure yourself. (( IC/OOC information divide. Learn it. )) A mirror may be helpful. Originally by: Andreus Ixiris none of it is irrelevant, incorrect or made up - it's all right there in the history books. Therefore, this statement is inaccurate. _________________________________________
iyammarrok	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:09:00 - [127] So... first of all, the quote at the beginning of this whole charade is over a century old is it not? so it is of no relevance to todays discussion. as for 'sir' midwestshire's claim that the Gallente Federation ROUTINELY 'nuke' planets from space... provide evidence or shut the hell up. one event, on one planet, after an entire colony was murdered, and those who were being bombarded can claim no moral high ground any longer, even if they could before, as they themselves bombarded the SAME planet in recent years. lastly... Sir is not an appelation i have seen often within Amarrian circles, in fact, it is far more commonly used within the khanid kingdom, and the federation, than anywhere else in the cluster. Who knighted you? and to what monarch are you beholden?
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:10:00 - [128] Originally by: Valerie Valate If the Amarr wiped them out, how do you know about them? Archeological studies, historical records, the few surviving artifacts of the distinct culture the Ni-Kunni once possessed before your unthinking monstrosity of an Empire destroyed it. You know, the things your people call loose ends. Originally by: Valerie Valate The Takmahl were members of the Amarr Empire on Athra, before being exiled shortly after the Amarr regained space travel. Can you prove this? Originally by: Valerie Valate Therefore, this statement is inaccurate. Nope. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:15:00 - [129] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Valerie Valate The Takmahl were members of the Amarr Empire on Athra, before being exiled shortly after the Amarr regained space travel. Can you prove this? Yes. _________________________________________
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:20:00 - [130] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Valerie Valate The Takmahl were members of the Amarr Empire on Athra, before being exiled shortly after the Amarr regained space travel. Can you prove this? All evidence shows that three races claim their original home as Athra, now known as Amarr prime, these races were the Amarr, the Udorians, and the Khanid. Current data retrieved from publicly available archives. Current archeological evidence points to the original home of the Takmahl being the Araz constellation, as the majority of known artefacts were collected within this area. It is believed that the early Amarrians did have some form of contact with the Takmahl, however evidence indicates, as with the majority of other groups the amarr have encountered, they did not choose a peaceful method of encounter, and labelled the Takmahl as 'Touched by Evil'. We Return.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:22:00 - [131] Originally by: Valerie Valate Yes. As Unit says, all evidence seems to indicate they originated in the Araz constellation. Besides, even if they were, that still leaves the Yan Jung, Talocan and Sleepers as predating the Empire by a considerable amount. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:37:00 - [132] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Actually, I once wrote a logically sound proof of the Amarrian God's nonexistence. You realize the word "sound" has a very strict definition in the context of logical proofs, right? You say you won't repeat it here, but please present this argument to me for evaluation. I like analyzing formal arguments. Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Oh, I'm a big supporter of civil rights. I tend to draw the line at ideologies which intend to destroy humanity. Technically the true goal of the Amarr religion is to bring enlightenment and the light of God to the entire cluster. That really is their honest goal; don't let the propaganda flicks build too convincing a straw man. There are plenty of peaceful adherents to the Amarrian faith within your own Federation and even the Republic that discredit the view of the Amarr faith attempting to destroy humanity. Unity Prevails.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:47:00 - [133] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Valerie Valate Yes. As Unit says, all evidence seems to indicate they originated in the Araz constellation. Nope. _________________________________________
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:47:00 - [134] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire We may a tough time proving our God is true, but you have no chance in proving he isn't. And plus, it's better to believe in God and find out he doesn't exist than to not believe and find out he does. That's some pretty weak reasoning, though. Arguing that you are justified in something simply because it cannot be disproven is an informal logical fallacy known as "argument from ignorance". As for the "gamble" scenario you presented, if an individual were to live their life out not believing in God and found out that (s)he does in fact exist that would still be a pretty postive situation: a die-hard atheist granted eternal life (albeit one full of suffering and punishment) is still better than...not existing. To have your existence be permanent is excellent. All I'm saying is there are stronger arguments that justify the belief in God. Unity Prevails.
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.13 21:57:00 - [135] Originally by: Valerie Valate Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Valerie Valate Yes. As Unit says, all evidence seems to indicate they originated in the Araz constellation. Nope. Pilot Valate. Please provide verifiable evidence supporting your claim. Currently availabale evidence does not support the aforementioned claim, and in many cases directly refute such claims. We Return.
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:01:00 - [136] Originally by: Rek Jaiga Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire We may a tough time proving our God is true, but you have no chance in proving he isn't. And plus, it's better to believe in God and find out he doesn't exist than to not believe and find out he does. That's some pretty weak reasoning, though. Arguing that you are justified in something simply because it cannot be disproven is an informal logical fallacy known as "argument from ignorance". As for the "gamble" scenario you presented, if an individual were to live their life out not believing in God and found out that (s)he does in fact exist that would still be a pretty postive situation: a die-hard atheist granted eternal life (albeit one full of suffering and punishment) is still better than...not existing. To have your existence be permanent is excellent. You have eternal life, yes, but it can either be a gift or a curse. A curse set aside for those who do not accept the Amarrian faith. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:06:00 - [137] So what happens if you believe in God all your life, and have thusly restricted yourself from a more fulfilling, enjoyable life, and he doesn't exist? You've wasted the only life you have. Or what, pray tell, will you do if you happened to believe in the wrong god? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:08:00 - [138] Edited by: Rek Jaiga on 13/06/2011 22:08:53 Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire You have eternal life, yes, but it can either be a gift or a curse. A curse set aside for those who do not accept the Amarrian faith. Depends on one's viewpoint. An atheist might view it as an upgrade; if you can cope with Hell, it can't be that bad, right? Of course it goes without saying that I do not believe in a no-win situation; if it looks bad, I can always extract something positive from it. Edit: had more to say. Unity Prevails.
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:12:00 - [139] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris So what happens if you believe in God all your life, and have thusly restricted yourself from a more fulfilling, enjoyable life, and he doesn't exist? You've wasted the only life you have. If practiced correctly, religion should not at all interfere with leading an enjoyable life and in fact should actually aid one in enjoying life. Clearly, of course, many religions tend to focus on the afterlife and the rewards yielded from practicing "their" religion. This too is the wrong approach, in my mind. Unity Prevails.
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:16:00 - [140] Originally by: Unit XS365BT We have accessed and assimilated all evidence on this particular subject. While the Elder taskforce designated to the Sarum worlds, suffered crippling damage when a weapon of currently unknown technological base was used against them, this was only one of at least three fleets which were at that time operating within amarrian borders. it is estimated that 98% of the starkmanir and Nefantar tribes were returned to the Matari people, as well as millions of slaves from all corners of the Amarrian empire. While the Elder assault upon CONCORD was in many ways understandable, it was still an illegal act, which bought them approximately 5 hours to perform the impossible task they attempted. yet still, they succeeded. the Imperial navy was involved in a firefight over Sarum Prime, yet, it is reported that they disengaged prior to Jamyl Sarum's entry into the arena of conflict, it was not they who won the day, but a weapon against which a shield oriented defence was impossible. Also, it is to be noted that, even with the direct application of technology developed by non-amarrians, the damage dealt to the fleet operating within the Sarum AOO was not fatal. While still fighting a running rearguard action, they returned to Matari space prior to CONCORD's directive for the 4 empires to cease overt conflict immediately. Your claim that the rebellion has not been won is illogical, and does not follow current CONCORD law. The Matari are accepted as a sovereign entity. one of the four groups to send representatives to the CONCORD council and tribunal, and is recognised as a political and social entity in it's own right. The matari rebellion succeeded after the Amarrian Empire's failed attempt at the invasion of jovian space. a race that, in one single fleet battle, proved that their technology was decades if not centuries in advance of that in use within the cluster at the time. Only two Minmatar tribes out of the many we process, a step for the minmatar, not a leap. They lost more people in the fighting than they saved, not a very good idea. I never stated it was a fatal blow, I mentioned that it destroyed the capital backbone of the armada. However I did not state it wiped it out completely, just the main force that would allow the Minmatar to push further into Amarr space. The rebellion is not over. Just because they declared themselves independent doesn't mean that they are done trying to free the remaining slaves in the Amarr empire. Slave revolts are very common these days. The technology that won the Jovians battle was mostly their pod technology, which compensated for their small numbers. Now that we have pod technology the Jovians could be easily overwhelmed. And we won't be so overconfident in our battle plan next time, we learned since then. ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:30:00 - [141] Capsule technology is still only used by less than a million pilots in the cluster out of the many billions of people every Navy employs, and the Amarrians, due in part to - oh, get this, you'll never guess! - their religion are extremely reticent to use capsule technology to their advantage (not that that's a bad thing). Remember that after the Jovians soundly wiped the floor with you, the Minmatar, who were on a much less superior technological footing, managed to sieze back every single system you took from them save one despite being faced by the brunt of your navy. They then proceeded to set up an interstellar government to administrate the whole thing practically overnight. All you could do afterwards was throw a temper tantrum in CONCORD demanding that they not be accepted as a full member. And the Minmatar tribes you "possess"? You're not even trying not to sound like some cardboard cutout villain. Pathetic and despicable. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Sir Oliver Midwestshire Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:32:00 - [142] Originally by: iyammarrok So... first of all, the quote at the beginning of this whole charade is over a century old is it not? so it is of no relevance to todays discussion. With that logic in mind, your following information regarding the bombardment of Caldari Prime is null and void. I don't follow your logic so therefore I will still respond. as for 'sir' midwestshire's claim that the Gallente Federation ROUTINELY 'nuke' planets from space... provide evidence or shut the hell up. Well... they have quite a nasty habit. Quote: one event, on one planet, after an entire colony was murdered, and those who were being bombarded can claim no moral high ground any longer, even if they could before, as they themselves bombarded the SAME planet in recent years. Right, because every Caldari citizen was responsible for Nouvelle Rounever, an unsanctioned event. Where as the Gallente Navy authorized the bombardment of Caldari Prime therefore making it sanctioned. And the Caldari didn't bombard their homeworld when they returned. They merely landed and occupied it. Quote: lastly... Sir is not an appelation i have seen often within Amarrian circles, in fact, it is far more commonly used within the khanid kingdom, and the federation, than anywhere else in the cluster. Who knighted you? and to what monarch are you beholden? Sir is a term the people of Midwestshire call me. I never coined it myself but I kind of liked it and adopted it. I founded the colony between Eastshire and Westshire, two other colonies founded by close relatives, Sir Eastshire and Madam Westshire. As for you, what moronic parent named you iyammarrok? ...Oh and I'm the guy who founded the city between Eastshire and Westshire. Nobody visits it though.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.13 22:36:00 - [143] Originally by: Unit XS365BT Currently availabale evidence does not support the aforementioned claim, and in many cases directly refute such claims. Nope. The entirety of knowledge about the Takmahl may be found by consulting the Curator of the Museum Arcana. The Takmahl were part of the Empire. They were exiled only shortly after the Empire took to space again. Since the Ealurians were the first race that the Empire encountered that was not on Athra, then the Takmahl would have had to have been on Athra. The Takmahl did not originate in Araz. Araz is where they settled after being exiled. What evidence do you have ? _________________________________________
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.14 00:01:00 - [144] Originally by: Rek Jaiga Technically the true goal of the Amarr religion is to bring enlightenment and the light of God to the entire cluster. No, this is not the main purpose of the Amarr religion, only a secondary goal resulting from the first one, basis of everything.
Rek Jaiga Minmatar Crimson Path Shaktipat Revelators	Posted - 2011.06.14 01:02:00 - [145] Originally by: Lyn Farel Originally by: Rek Jaiga Technically the true goal of the Amarr religion is to bring enlightenment and the light of God to the entire cluster. No, this is not the main purpose of the Amarr religion, only a secondary goal resulting from the first one, basis of everything. Oh? Please enlighten me; pardon my theological mistakes. Unity Prevails.
Senn Typhos Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.14 02:02:00 - [146] Originally by: Lyn Farel Out of curiosity, is Ixiris on drop or exile ? Drop is a hallucinogen, which may result in delirium, obliviousness, megalomania, etcetera. Exile is a stimulant, which energizes the user, but results in a feeling of invincibility, and in some cases causes uncontrollable aggression and recklessness. So, both. Let this be a lesson on the dangers of combining "uppers" and "downers."
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.14 02:54:00 - [147] Originally by: Senn Typhos Drivel. You've an awful lot of mouth for someone who never undocks. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Senn Typhos Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:25:00 - [148] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Senn Typhos Drivel. You've an awful lot of mouth for someone who never undocks. Clarification, I am obligated to assess, expound upon, and or correct statements made on the subject of boosters. Whether you think it's "drivel" or not doesn't matter. I also doubt - check that, I know - that you don't have any kind of significant security or surveillance network, so you're not qualified to speak on behalf of my activity, or anyone else's. On a personal note, I've had more than enough of your candyass sniveling, and so has everyone else on galnet.
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:47:00 - [149] Edited by: Unit XS365BT on 14/06/2011 03:53:27 Originally by: Valerie Valate Originally by: Unit XS365BT Currently availabale evidence does not support the aforementioned claim, and in many cases directly refute such claims. Nope. The entirety of knowledge about the Takmahl may be found by consulting the Curator of the Museum Arcana. The Takmahl were part of the Empire. They were exiled only shortly after the Empire took to space again. Since the Ealurians were the first race that the Empire encountered that was not on Athra, then the Takmahl would have had to have been on Athra. The Takmahl did not originate in Araz. Araz is where they settled after being exiled. What evidence do you have ? We would note that while this individual may have made the assumption that the Takmahl were of Athra, no known archeological finds have been made upon Athra concerning Takmahl technologies or settlements. This alone would have many doubting these claims, especially those who require solid evidence, the word of one individual does not constitute solid evidence. Archeological evidence of settlements and technologies that were far in advance of todays technology, are solid evidence of the existence of the Takmahl in Araz long before the Amarrians gained the capacity to leave their home planet. Considering this irrefutable evidence, how do you explain Takmahl artefacts being present in the Araz constellation hundreds, if not thousands, of years prior to Amarrian spaceflight? The age of these artefacts cannot be argued. Therefore evidence indicates that the curator, a self professed member of the theology council, and therefore an individual with a vested interest in distorting the perceptions of those he meets in favour of the amarrian empire, would of course, attempt to convince others that Amarr were in fact, the first race, even amongst those referred to as the 'ancient spacefaring races' to gain interplanetary transport capability. In short, he is lying. theology council propaganda that can be easily proven wrong by anyone with even the slightest ability to independantly research his claim. All evidence gathered by independent sources both within and outside the Amarr Empire corroborate the belief that the Takmahl originate within the Araz constellation. We Return. Postscript. A more pressing piece of evidence: If the takmahl, who had technology far in advance of that which the inhabitants of the 'island of amar' were of Athra, and, as the curator said, became known as heathens and heretics, there would have been a war. Upon the land of Athra. a war between one group with highly advanced technology, and another with less advanced technology. Yet the Amarrians still exist. This alone is evidence that the Takmahl did not originate on Athra.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.14 04:20:00 - [150] Originally by: Senn Typhos I also doubt - check that, I know My face when Senn Typhos clames to "know" something. Originally by: Senn Typhos so you're not qualified to speak on behalf of my activity, or anyone else's. I don't really need a personal espionage network to tell me you never undock. The way you talk says it all. (But it was helpful to have a few friends to confirm my suspicions). Originally by: Senn Typhos On a personal note, I've had more than enough of your candyass sniveling Oho! This is me shaking in my boots. You better look close, or you might miss it! Originally by: Senn Typhos and so has everyone else on galnet. I also doubt - check that, I know you don't speak on behalf of "everyone", so... you know, sod off, Senn. Go and do whatever it is that Anshar does (read: not very damn much) and quit your, ahem, candyass snivelling. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Senn Typhos Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.14 05:24:00 - [151] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Senn Typhos On a personal note, I've had more than enough of your candyass sniveling Oho! This is me shaking in my boots. You better look close, or you might miss it! Watch closely, little boy. I'm going to be gracious and instruct you on why no one respects you, with a simple demonstration. I'm not going to say anything in this post. I won't say a word about your nation, your beliefs, your family, or your friends. I'm not even going to say your name. And you'll still reply. You'll jump at the chance. The reason is simple; you're a reactionary creature. You're like... lets say, a rabbit. A rabbit doesn't take initiative, unless it sees the grass around it rustle, at which point it starts running. Reactionary creatures are prey. If they don't have the queue to run, they die obliviously. And when you reply once again, you'll prove what a weak will you have, and how enslaved you are to your reactionary instinct. It's because you'll respond to anything, anything at all, that you are prey, not predator. Now lets see how long it takes for your instincts to kick in.
Misha M'Liena Amarr 21st Eridani Lighthorse Eves Misguided Children	Posted - 2011.06.14 05:38:00 - [152] Ahh Mr Senn Typhos is it? I am sorry to inform you that you do not speak for me. While it is true i think Andreus Ixiris is dreamy. I have never met him. I'd probaly b****-slap him for his views on Amarrian's. Dreamy doesn't equate to agree with. Andy's normally 100 percent right. He believes what he says. I may not agree and sometimes wish my hands were on his body aka throat but i'm mild mannered, Just ask Syn or Dris. You on the other hand. I find some what comical. I still want to know, how you think he's on drugs. He admitted to taking a blue pill. One doesn't mean overuse like you implied. Misha M'Liena Ps. If you do undock. I'll be wagering on Andy.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.14 06:08:00 - [153] Originally by: Senn Typhos Watch closely, little boy. I'm going to be gracious and instruct you on why no one respects you Originally by: Misha M'Liena Ahh Mr Senn Typhos is it? I am sorry to inform you that you do not speak for me. While it is true i think Andreus Ixiris is dreamy. I have never met him. I'd probaly b***-slap him for his views on Amarrian's. Dreamy doesn't equate to agree with. Andy's normally 100 percent right. He believes what he says. I may not agree and sometimes wish my hands were on his body aka throat but i'm mild mannered, Just ask Syn or Dris. You on the other hand. I find some what comical. I still want to know, how you think he's on drugs. He admitted to taking a blue pill. One doesn't mean overuse like you implied. Misha M'Liena Ps. If you do undock. I'll be wagering on Andy. Sometimes... just sometimes, everything falls into place, and I don't even have to do anything*. Ms. M'Liena, if you're trying to convince me to try dating women... ... godsdamnit, you're actually doing a pretty damn good job. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Kithrus Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.14 16:27:00 - [154] Edited by: Kithrus on 14/06/2011 16:29:09 Edited by: Kithrus on 14/06/2011 16:28:35 Originally by: Andreus Ixiris So what happens if you believe in God all your life, and have thusly restricted yourself from a more fulfilling, enjoyable life, and he doesn't exist? You've wasted the only life you have. Or what, pray tell, will you do if you happened to believe in the wrong god? Heres how I see it when I have my moments of doubt: If God is there he respects my efforts though tiny in the big picture. He is after willing hearts and doesn't ask me to succeed but to serve. If God is not there I'd like to think I helped make the cluster a better place before I go. One does not need to enjoy ones life for it to be full with meaning. Many people take suffering onto themselves to make others happy. If its the wrong god then well.... if this deity is Benevolent then he/she will understand. If the deity in question is selfish and evil he/she/it what have you, will not care for me in any case served or otherwise. So far logic dictates the odds are in my favor so I'm not worried about it.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.14 16:30:00 - [155] Originally by: Kithrus Heres how I see it when I have my moments of doubt: If God is there he respects my efforts though tiny in the big picture. He is after willing hearts and doesn't ask to me succeed but to serve. You can't know that. Originally by: Kithrus If God is not there I'd like to think I helped make the cluster a better place before I go. By assisting in the destruction of other cultures and the objectification of entire races of human beings? Originally by: Kithrus If its the wrong god then well.... if this deity is Benevolent then he/she will understand. If the deity in question is selfish and evil he/she it what have you will not care for me in any case served of otherwise. So far logic dictates the odds are in my favor so I'm not worried about it. There are dozens of Gods and gods out there - you only worship one of them, and there is of course the possibility (or, rather, the reality) that none of them exist after all. That doesn't stack the odds very high in your favour. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Kithrus Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.14 16:38:00 - [156] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Kithrus Heres how I see it when I have my moments of doubt: If God is there he respects my efforts though tiny in the big picture. He is after willing hearts and doesn't ask to me succeed but to serve. You can't know that. Originally by: Kithrus If God is not there I'd like to think I helped make the cluster a better place before I go. By assisting in the destruction of other cultures and the objectification of entire races of human beings? Originally by: Kithrus If its the wrong god then well.... if this deity is Benevolent then he/she will understand. If the deity in question is selfish and evil he/she it what have you will not care for me in any case served of otherwise. So far logic dictates the odds are in my favor so I'm not worried about it. There are dozens of Gods and gods out there - you only worship one of them, and there is of course the possibility (or, rather, the reality) that none of them exist after all. That doesn't stack the odds very high in your favour. I did just finish telling you if God is not there what I feel on the matter. Also I did not pretend to endorse genocide or partake in it. Also I can know God is there because in the above example we are assuming her is the amarrian one. Add to that if there was a all power deity that wanted us to follow its teachings I belive it has every reason to play fair and keep us enough in the loop. So you'd rather I just give up? You haven't given up on your pointless belifes why should I do so for mine which are rooted in history and faith instead of blind specculation or racial accusations.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.14 16:50:00 - [157] Originally by: Unit XS365BT Originally by: Valerie Valate Originally by: Unit XS365BT Currently availabale evidence does not support the aforementioned claim, and in many cases directly refute such claims. Nope. The entirety of knowledge about the Takmahl may be found by consulting the Curator of the Museum Arcana. The Takmahl were part of the Empire. They were exiled only shortly after the Empire took to space again. Since the Ealurians were the first race that the Empire encountered that was not on Athra, then the Takmahl would have had to have been on Athra. The Takmahl did not originate in Araz. Araz is where they settled after being exiled. What evidence do you have ? We would note that while this individual may have made the assumption that the Takmahl were of Athra, no known archeological finds have been made upon Athra concerning Takmahl technologies or settlements. This alone would have many doubting these claims, especially those who require solid evidence, the word of one individual does not constitute solid evidence. Archeological evidence of settlements and technologies that were far in advance of todays technology, are solid evidence of the existence of the Takmahl in Araz long before the Amarrians gained the capacity to leave their home planet. Considering this irrefutable evidence, how do you explain Takmahl artefacts being present in the Araz constellation hundreds, if not thousands, of years prior to Amarrian spaceflight? The age of these artefacts cannot be argued. Therefore evidence indicates that the curator, a self professed member of the theology council, and therefore an individual with a vested interest in distorting the perceptions of those he meets in favour of the amarrian empire, would of course, attempt to convince others that Amarr were in fact, the first race, even amongst those referred to as the 'ancient spacefaring races' to gain interplanetary transport capability. In short, he is lying. theology council propaganda that can be easily proven wrong by anyone with even the slightest ability to independantly research his claim. All evidence gathered by independent sources both within and outside the Amarr Empire corroborate the belief that the Takmahl originate within the Araz constellation. We Return. Postscript. A more pressing piece of evidence: If the takmahl, who had technology far in advance of that which the inhabitants of the 'island of amar' were of Athra, and, as the curator said, became known as heathens and heretics, there would have been a war. Upon the land of Athra. a war between one group with highly advanced technology, and another with less advanced technology. Yet the Amarrians still exist. This alone is evidence that the Takmahl did not originate on Athra. Nope. _________________________________________
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2011.06.14 16:52:00 - [158] Originally by: Kithrus So you'd rather I just give up? Honestly? Yes. Originally by: Kithrus You haven't given up on your pointless belifes My beliefs forged a society that achieved the same level of advancement in five hundred years that it took your society more than fourfold that time to accomplish. A society that matches the military strength of yours blow-for-blow (or, in some cases, vastly exceeds it) even though it's drastically smaller. Pointless? Progress. Originally by: Kithrus faith instead of blind specculation Same thing. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Kithrus Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.14 17:02:00 - [159] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Kithrus So you'd rather I just give up? Honestly? Yes. Originally by: Kithrus You haven't given up on your pointless belifes My beliefs forged a society that achieved the same level of advancement in five hundred years that it took your society more than fourfold that time to accomplish. A society that matches the military strength of yours blow-for-blow (or, in some cases, vastly exceeds it) even though it's drastically smaller. Pointless? Progress. Originally by: Kithrus faith instead of blind specculation Same thing. Listen you argue that the day you can put god under a microscoop you will belive. I tell you if that days ever comes I'll join the federation. And if you can understand that statement I'm not sure why you bother.
Laerise Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.14 23:25:00 - [160] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Originally by: Senn Typhos Drivel. You've an awful lot of mouth for someone who never undocks. Well done ape, you just made me laugh. It is rather a shame that you will not be able to understand the irony of your statement. _______ "Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens." - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 71:21
iyammarrok	Posted - 2011.06.15 00:09:00 - [161] Originally by: Sir Oliver Midwestshire Originally by: iyammarrok So... first of all, the quote at the beginning of this whole charade is over a century old is it not? so it is of no relevance to todays discussion. With that logic in mind, your following information regarding the bombardment of Caldari Prime is null and void. I don't follow your logic so therefore I will still respond. How so? It was the opinion of one man, who is long dead, reading through this thread, it is apparent that many took the quote to be somewhat more recent. Quote: Quote: as for 'sir' midwestshire's claim that the Gallente Federation ROUTINELY 'nuke' planets from space... provide evidence or shut the hell up. Well... they have quite a nasty habit. ((right, first of all, as andreus said, IC/OOC divide... those are dust soldiers, as the video states, it is a 'future vision' it hasn't happened yet, and you may also note that the one who seems to order that strike is a capsuleer, so not beholden to the government.)) Quote: Quote: one event, on one planet, after an entire colony was murdered, and those who were being bombarded can claim no moral high ground any longer, even if they could before, as they themselves bombarded the SAME planet in recent years. Right, because every Caldari citizen was responsible for Nouvelle Rounever, an unsanctioned event. Where as the Gallente Navy authorized the bombardment of Caldari Prime therefore making it sanctioned. And the Caldari didn't bombard their homeworld when they returned. They merely landed and occupied it. The craters where hardened military structures once stood tell a different tale. and no, at no point did i say that they were all responsible, it was an extreme over-reaction, however, you have failed to research the very events you are claiming to know so much about. until you do, i have very little time for you. Quote: As for you, what moronic parent named you iyammarrok? None did, and you are an utter fool if you think that the vast majority of capsuleers still use their given names. Capsuleers cause great animosity, both amongst their own community and amongst, in general, the 'baseliner' criminal community. I personally chose this name, it is in many ways a small jest. as i began my proffession as a prospector. seeking wealth through mineral aquisitions. had you performed any research on that topic however, before resorting to childish insults, you may have already been able to gather that information too, considering that it is a matter of public record.
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.15 00:13:00 - [162] Originally by: Valerie Valate Nope. The inability to accept evidence from a wide range of sources prior to formulating a theory will in general lead to inaccurate or false results during any given research endeavour. It is also indicative of logical inability, both, it would seem, in dronekind and capsuleers. We Return.
Dilaro thagriin	Posted - 2011.06.15 00:15:00 - [163] Originally by: Kithrus If its the wrong god then well.... if this deity is Benevolent then he/she will understand. If the deity in question is selfish and evil he/she/it what have you, will not care for me in any case served or otherwise. So far logic dictates the odds are in my favor so I'm not worried about it. I'm sorry... let me just re-read that. if a god is benevolent, and you believe in another, that entity, will understand. first of all... define what you mean by 'will understand'. then we can continue.
Lyn Farel Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.15 00:29:00 - [164] Originally by: Rek Jaiga Originally by: Lyn Farel Originally by: Rek Jaiga Technically the true goal of the Amarr religion is to bring enlightenment and the light of God to the entire cluster. No, this is not the main purpose of the Amarr religion, only a secondary goal resulting from the first one, basis of everything. Oh? Please enlighten me; pardon my theological mistakes. Of course. The primary purpose of the Scriptures is to gather knowledge for the Amarrian society, since it is their main essence. Through knowledge, you enlight. Through knowledge, you get everytime a little closer to God. Originally by: Senn Typhos Originally by: Lyn Farel Out of curiosity, is Ixiris on drop or exile ? Drop is a hallucinogen, which may result in delirium, obliviousness, megalomania, etcetera. Exile is a stimulant, which energizes the user, but results in a feeling of invincibility, and in some cases causes uncontrollable aggression and recklessness. So, both. This is why I asked. The symptoms were obvious, but this was only one of many possible conclusions, including moderate mental disorders of various kinds, including magalomania, narcissism, histrionic personality disorder, brief psychotic disorder. Originally by: Senn Typhos On a personal note, I've had more than enough of your candyass sniveling, and so has everyone else on galnet. I wonder why everyone keeps answering him, then. It is highly counter productive and directly feeds his expectations.
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown	Posted - 2011.06.15 03:19:00 - [165] Wait, this has gone on for six pages? Dear Lord people, you need lives. Someone is wrong on the Intergalactic Summit?! Oh, the scandal! Clearly we must go on with the war of words until the whole Galnet thinks like us! Well, at least on the bright side the with the amount time it takes for you lot to argue it means less time for you to kill random people in your pods.
Leopold Caine Amarr Stillwater Corporation	Posted - 2011.06.15 03:52:00 - [166] Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq Well, at least on the bright side the with the amount time it takes for you lot to argue it means less time for you to kill random people in your pods. Well noticed, Princeps. The silent ones are the deadly ones. _______________________________________________________________________ .domination sentinel .stillwater
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.15 17:20:00 - [167] Originally by: Unit XS365BT Originally by: Valerie Valate Nope. The inability to accept evidence from a wide range of sources prior to formulating a theory will in general lead to inaccurate or false results during any given research endeavour. It is also indicative of logical inability, both, it would seem, in dronekind and capsuleers. Behold, a fuller explanation of why your assumptions are invalid. Originally by: Unit XS365BT We would note that while this individual may have made the assumption that the Takmahl were of Athra, no known archeological finds have been made upon Athra concerning Takmahl technologies or settlements. No surprise there. They were exiled for heresy, and Athra is one of the more densely populated worlds, so any artifacts or settlements would have been destroyed, utterly, once they left. Quote: Archeological evidence of settlements and technologies that were far in advance of todays technology, are solid evidence of the existence of the Takmahl in Araz long before the Amarrians gained the capacity to leave their home planet. Considering this irrefutable evidence, how do you explain Takmahl artefacts being present in the Araz constellation hundreds, if not thousands, of years prior to Amarrian spaceflight? The age of these artefacts cannot be argued. No. There is no evidence that Takmahl artifacts are "thousands" of years old. Does an Analyzer II tell you how old something is? No, it does not. There is no "evidence from independent sources". There is only the Museum Arcana. The Takmahl technologies could easily have been developed during their time in Araz. If they are more advanced, it is because those technologies in the Empire were considered morally questionable, and thus were not researched. That is why some technologies are more advanced. Quote: A more pressing piece of evidence: If the takmahl, who had technology far in advance of that which the inhabitants of the 'island of amar' were of Athra, and, as the curator said, became known as heathens and heretics, there would have been a war. Upon the land of Athra. a war between one group with highly advanced technology, and another with less advanced technology. Yet the Amarrians still exist. This alone is evidence that the Takmahl did not originate on Athra. No. You assume there would have been a war, rather than a (somewhat) peaceful resolution, and that the Takmahl had the technologies then that they did by their end. Therefore, your "evidence" is flimsier than tissue paper. The Takmahl were from Athra. They were exiled. They developed their technologies when they resettled in Araz. They died out there. The Curator is the only person in New Eden that knows anything more about them. That is all. _________________________________________
Tarryn Nightstorm Minmatar Hellstar Towing and Recovery	Posted - 2011.06.17 01:22:00 - [168] Originally by: Victoria Stecker Ah, but they are far to concerned with being right to care about being arrogant or vain. Humility is one of the first things sacrificed in the search for truth. ... I must be drinking, that actually sounded profound. Bottoms-up!
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.17 03:43:00 - [169] Originally by: Valerie Valate Edited by: Valerie Valate on 15/06/2011 17:28:56 Originally by: Unit XS365BT Originally by: Valerie Valate Nope. The inability to accept evidence from a wide range of sources prior to formulating a theory will in general lead to inaccurate or false results during any given research endeavour. It is also indicative of logical inability, both, it would seem, in dronekind and capsuleers. Behold, a fuller explanation of why your assumptions are invalid. We note that your research consists of references from a single member of the theology council, the very group that deemed the takmahl 'heretics'. We also note your claim that this individual is the only entity in the entire cluster with any knowledge of Takmahl history or archeology. Thirdly, we note that while you caim the above quote proves our assumptions invalid, we reference many individuals, working within the archaeological field from the 4 primary universities accessable to capsuleers, whereas, as we have previously stated, you reference just one. We would lastly suggest that pilot Valate research the definition of 'Ancient spacefaring Race' a title given to 5 specific groups widely believed to have inhabited this cluster at various times during it's history. At this time we do not consider continuing this debate to be a valid use of our time, as pilot Valate has proven to be somewhat intransigent concerning any independantly verifiable evidence upon this topic. We Return.
Valerie Valate Amarr Church of The Crimson Saviour	Posted - 2011.06.17 17:52:00 - [170] Originally by: Unit XS365BT we reference many individuals, working within the archaeological field from the 4 primary universities accessable to capsuleers. Nope, you haven't. You haven't referenced anything. You are grasping at straws. Quote: We would suggest that pilot Valate research the definition of 'Ancient spacefaring Race' a title given to 5 specific groups widely believed to have inhabited this cluster at various times during it's history. Meaningless. Ancient spacefaring race, means a group, that had space travel, that existed at some point in the past. That's all it means. Quote: At this time we do not consider continuing this debate to be a valid use of our time, as pilot Valate has proven to be somewhat intransigent concerning any independantly verifiable evidence upon this topic. You have no independently verifiable evidence. You have nothing. (this is what happens when your fanfiction contradicts PF. The Curator is the only PF about the Takmahl.) _________________________________________
Unit XS365BT Unit Commune Celestial Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.17 20:40:00 - [171] Originally by: Valerie Valate Originally by: Unit XS365BT we reference many individuals, working within the archaeological field from the 4 primary universities accessable to capsuleers. Nope, you haven't. You haven't referenced anything. You are grasping at straws. Quote: We would suggest that pilot Valate research the definition of 'Ancient spacefaring Race' a title given to 5 specific groups widely believed to have inhabited this cluster at various times during it's history. Meaningless. Ancient spacefaring race, means a group, that had space travel, that existed at some point in the past. That's all it means. Quote: At this time we do not consider continuing this debate to be a valid use of our time, as pilot Valate has proven to be somewhat intransigent concerning any independantly verifiable evidence upon this topic. You have no independently verifiable evidence. You have nothing. (this is what happens when your fanfiction contradicts PF. The Curator is the only PF about the Takmahl.) We have researched artefacts recovered from the Araz region, and analyzed transcripts of research teams evaluation of said artefacts. We have researched documentation from archaeological teams who were responsible for the recovery of takmahl artefacts, and collectors who, for some time at least, held these artefacts within their collections. We have read papers by University professors and students, concerning these artefacts, and the theory behind their original uses. We would note that your earlier description merely denotes a spacefaring race. We would suggest pilot Valate research the word 'Ancient' However we grow tired of this circular debate. We Reutn.

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