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Yolo Intergalactic Combined Technologies	Posted - 2011.06.10 11:41:00 - [1] How about sitting down and working on adding a hint of realism to the game... Like having planets and moons orbiting? Yes, having the planets orbit around the sun, and the moons orbiting around the moons with POS's orbiting around the moons. I know the lines are there... but last I checked nothing was moving. --- A disgruntled ex-employee who has been harrassing local customers. Threat level: pathetic
Lidia Prince Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.10 11:47:00 - [2] Awesome, but too slow. It's impossible to do right now, will add too much extra load on server.
Danika Princip Minmatar Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2011.06.10 12:17:00 - [3] And what would this do to bookmarks? Oh, yeah, that's right, make any pos, moon, station or planet related bookmark entirely useless.
Rek Seven Gallente Zandathorn Industries	Posted - 2011.06.10 12:44:00 - [4] This is a big thing?
Lin-Young Borovskova	Posted - 2011.06.10 13:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Danika Princip And what would this do to bookmarks? Oh, yeah, that's right, make any pos, moon, station or planet related bookmark entirely useless. Nothing since the macro target is one specific element having his own specific code, so when you warp to "Big POS" in fact you warp to "pos-specific script". If they made it more complicated than that then it's time to change it. "Cancer killed thousands and keeps killing hundreds.Aids killed thousands and keeps killing hundreds. And human economics kill how many every day?"
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Danika Princip And what would this do to bookmarks? Oh, yeah, that's right, make any pos, moon, station or planet related bookmark entirely useless. It would obviously be impossible to change bookmarks to become relative to something, rather than absolute, right? ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:41:00 - [7] You know, whenever I read that someone wants to add "more realism" to a game, I start to zone out.
Yeep GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.06.10 14:47:00 - [8] Nothing in game right now has an orbital velocity so that would need to be added for every single item in every single system in the game. Even then to be realistic most of it would have to be so slow that you wouldn't notice it moving. What about things like stargates that aren't tied to an orbital body? What about bookmarks that are just points in space? What planet or moon do they orbit? Then you have asteroid belts which currently sit around planets, do they orbit even though thats not very realistic?
Halbert Vector	Posted - 2011.06.10 18:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Halbert Vector on 10/06/2011 18:04:27 Originally by: Yeep Nothing in game right now has an orbital velocity so that would need to be added for every single item in every single system in the game. That's not hard. You can do that automatically, all you need to know is how far it is from the sun, or a planet if one is within a certain distance Originally by: Yeep Even then to be realistic most of it would have to be so slow that you wouldn't notice it moving. You'd see it moving from a customs office, and it'd certainly have a tangible effect on gatecamps Originally by: Yeep What about things like stargates that aren't tied to an orbital body? Stargates are tied to an orbital body. Usually it's the sun. Originally by: Yeep What about bookmarks that are just points in space? Bookmarks are a bit weird anyway. If they are objects which you drop so your warp drive can lock onto a spot (which seems like the only sensible explanation for how they behave) then they would orbit too Originally by: Yeep What planet or moon do they orbit? the sun, or a planet if one is within range Originally by: Yeep Then you have asteroid belts which currently sit around planets, do they orbit even though thats not very realistic? It is realistic. Are you saying asteroids aren't affected by gravity? As for the way ships would move in this environment (which is the real problem), perhaps someone should try and prototype out a version of eve where the "space friction" has the velocity of the nearest stable orbit. If it works and there aren't any difficult problems that would certainly make things interesting for dust and orbital bombardment.
Tyme Xandr Gallente United Eve Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.10 19:47:00 - [10] All planets have an orbiting velocity of one revolution per 20982709282098209820928209820982092809282829802737637637627298209829820982893675387292882782872 earth years. So we see very little change a year. I resolved the issue, your welcome.

Somal Thunder Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.06.10 22:26:00 - [11] Edited by: Somal Thunder on 10/06/2011 22:28:22 Edited by: Somal Thunder on 10/06/2011 22:28:06 Originally by: Tyme Xandr All planets have an orbiting velocity of one revolution per 20982709282098209820928209820982092809282829802737637637627298209829820982893675387292882782872 earth years. So we see very little change a year. I resolved the issue, your welcome. His welcome? You confuse me. EDIT: Also, stop using the same numbers when you make a big number. Do it the old fashioned way 2846592857659202184756521947599371675862156518357852461988788845231356000312654051568309870450932 See a pattern? Me neither.
Tyme Xandr Gallente United Eve Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.11 01:06:00 - [12] Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 11/06/2011 01:09:39 Originally by: Somal Thunder Edited by: Somal Thunder on 10/06/2011 22:28:22 Edited by: Somal Thunder on 10/06/2011 22:28:06 Originally by: Tyme Xandr All planets have an orbiting velocity of one revolution per 20982709282098209820928209820982092809282829802737637637627298209829820982893675387292882782872 earth years. So we see very little change a year. I resolved the issue, your welcome. His welcome? You confuse me. EDIT: Also, stop using the same numbers when you make a big number. Do it the old fashioned way 2846592857659202184756521947599371675862156518357852461988788845231356000312654051568309870450932 See a pattern? Me neither. But my number is the number to be used ... duh. And is you're and your really ****ing you off? if so, ill be sure to use it more often in addition to repeating numbers.
Somal Thunder Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.06.11 02:35:00 - [13] O NO, PLEAZE DONT THRO UR BAD GRAMMER AND SPELINNG @ ME!
Yanshee	Posted - 2011.06.11 02:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Marchocias It would obviously be impossible to change bookmarks to become relative to something, rather than absolute, right? Right. So the bookmark that is 1AU from Planet X and 3AU from Planet Y is kept relative to which exactly? Your ill-informed sarcasm only applies to bookmarks which are incredibly close to particular celestials.
Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2011.06.11 02:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Yanshee Originally by: Marchocias It would obviously be impossible to change bookmarks to become relative to something, rather than absolute, right? Right. So the bookmark that is 1AU from Planet X and 3AU from Planet Y is kept relative to which exactly? Your ill-informed sarcasm only applies to bookmarks which are incredibly close to particular celestials. Correct. And, beyond your excellent point, we should all keep this in mind: EVE is a game. We play games to escape reality.
Tyme Xandr Gallente United Eve Directorate	Posted - 2011.06.11 03:56:00 - [16] Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 11/06/2011 03:56:34 Originally by: Somal Thunder O NO, PLEAZE DONT THRO UR BAD GRAMMER AND SPELINNG @ ME! loads antigrammar rounds
Halbert Vector	Posted - 2011.06.11 11:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Michela Correct. And, beyond your excellent point, we should all keep this in mind: EVE is a game. We play games to escape reality. Firstly, there's no reason the bookmark couldn't orbit the sun like any other object far enough from a planet. Secondly, no matter how much more dynamic and fun the game is made using speculative realism for ideas, it's not going to resemble real life because last I checked there isn't a galactic empire or ftl travel or resurrection or naturally occuring stable wormholes. This is a ridiculous argument, your escapism is safe whatever happens.
Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2011.06.11 22:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Halbert Vector Originally by: Michela Correct. And, beyond your excellent point, we should all keep this in mind: EVE is a game. We play games to escape reality. Firstly, there's no reason the bookmark couldn't orbit the sun like any other object far enough from a planet. Secondly, no matter how much more dynamic and fun the game is made using speculative realism for ideas, it's not going to resemble real life because last I checked there isn't a galactic empire or ftl travel or resurrection or naturally occuring stable wormholes. This is a ridiculous argument, your escapism is safe whatever happens. My point is aimed towards the OP who is talking about adding a hint to realism to the game. To address your points, I'll say this: why should we want CCP to go start making things move, likely break every bookmark for months (you know they would), break who knows what other mechanics, all so some fanboi can have a little realism for his internet spaceships? How about we ask them to fix problems with the game as it stands now rather than adding meaningless things like orbiting astral bodies?
Halbert Vector	Posted - 2011.06.12 00:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Michela likely break every bookmark for months (you know they would) That's ok by me. Bookmarks are long overdue for being smashed and replaced anyway in my opinion Originally by: Michela How about we ask them to fix problems with the game as it stands now rather than adding meaningless things like orbiting astral bodies? Well, because it would be fun and not meaningless at all. Anyway, right now I'm just interested to see if you could theoretically make it work without all the pilots having to be physics geniuses, I'm not saying anyone should stop work on anything. I know the OP was implying that, but I was kind of going off on a tangent.
Oregin Red Sky Morning BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.06.12 01:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Halbert Vector Originally by: Michela Correct. And, beyond your excellent point, we should all keep this in mind: EVE is a game. We play games to escape reality. Firstly, there's no reason the bookmark couldn't orbit the sun like any other object far enough from a planet. Secondly, no matter how much more dynamic and fun the game is made using speculative realism for ideas, it's not going to resemble real life because last I checked there isn't a galactic empire or ftl travel or resurrection or naturally occuring stable wormholes. This is a ridiculous argument, your escapism is safe whatever happens. What on earth are you talking about? If CCP 1. make orbital bodies orbit the sun at different speeds then your bookmark which finds itself relative to two celestials will move out of range of one of them. If they're 2. all going to have orbits which are the same then it's effectively what we have now. Also, since you're a fan of realism, why would a fixed location in space orbit the sun? This idea is continually shot down because bookmarks simply would no longer function as they do if you envisage scenario 1. Either they just don't work or they have limited use and would have to be continually re-adjusted. Removing bookmarks would severely skew a lot of strategical gameplay and greatly reduce the need for combat probes which are an enjoyable aspect of this game. Making people continually adjust and remake safe spots would just be a huge pain in the ass for everyone. Realism must take a back seat when gameplay is at stake. Any proposition should start 'the gameplay would be better if...' rather than 'in real life, things are like this...'

Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2011.06.12 07:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Halbert Vector That's ok by me. Bookmarks are long overdue for being smashed and replaced anyway in my opinion That's another topic entirely. Could be interesting.
Yolo Intergalactic Combined Technologies	Posted - 2011.06.13 14:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Michela You know, whenever I read that someone wants to add "more realism" to a game, I start to zone out. Then zone back in, I wasnt asking for more realism. I was asking for a 'hint' of realism we all know so many things in Eve are as they are because its a game. --- A disgruntled ex-employee who has been harrassing local customers. Threat level: pathetic
Ogogov Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.06.13 14:35:00 - [23] Adding orbital mechanics into eve along with the possibility of them altering warp trajectories etc. would be a fantastic way of adding terrain into solar systems. If you've ever played with Universe Sandbox from Steam, you'll know its possible. I know the game doesn't work like that right now, but on the other hand I was very disappointed when first starting out that the solar systems were all so dull and samey.
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Yanshee Originally by: Marchocias It would obviously be impossible to change bookmarks to become relative to something, rather than absolute, right? Right. So the bookmark that is 1AU from Planet X and 3AU from Planet Y is kept relative to which exactly? Your ill-informed sarcasm only applies to bookmarks which are incredibly close to particular celestials. Kept relative to nearest celestial, where appropriate, or static like they are now. This isn't a difficult thing in the slightest. Also, describing some sarcasm as ill informed makes no sense. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Finn McCaan Caldari	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:39:00 - [25] If bookmarks (and instances, sites and so on) where bound to a given celestial (default 'largest' gravitational pull, all objects seem to have mass atm) then this could be remapped at DT - so while the positions during play wouldn't change after DT systems would be aligned differently. Although doing it on the fly shouldn't be to bad in theory depending on how grid locations actually work. Fun if large celestial's and bodies (stations) block jump, would make good positioning more important. Actually anything sufficiently large and close being in the way blocking jump would be good (park your bs in front of a super cap to stop it warping ;) ) Anyway, So if it adds to gameplay i'm for it
Tekashi Kovacs Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.06.13 17:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Lidia Prince Awesome, but too slow. It's impossible to do right now, will add too much extra load on server. To make it more friendly to server it could be done by changing planets positions after each server reset, not in real time - more reallistic soludtion imo with current technology.
Marchocias Snatch Victory	Posted - 2011.06.14 00:35:00 - [27] Edited by: Marchocias on 14/06/2011 00:40:05 Originally by: Lidia Prince Awesome, but too slow. It's impossible to do right now, will add too much extra load on server. Not really... You don't have to constantly calculate the positions of each celestial... You simply assume they have an unchanging elliptical orbit around the sun, or another celestial, then you calculate the position with a simple modulus operation on the time and some simple vector addition, once per tick, if and only if someone is changing grid at that location. It wouldn't create any traffic either, as both client and server know the algorithm by which the celestials orbit Client side, rendering of the map and of celestial positions in space would also be very simple math, which could be done more than once per game tick. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Deathly Gaga Whillyams	Posted - 2011.06.14 01:57:00 - [28] +1 I support this. A bookmark can be displaced by "near masive gravitatory objects" like planets etc. The logic is that visiting the same station in diferent times it should have a diferent background.
Mars Theran Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.14 03:31:00 - [29] Edited by: Mars Theran on 14/06/2011 03:34:15 It would certainly beat unchanging space, but we know CCP is not going to be on this in the next Millenia. Even if it were relatively easy to do, it's just not a priority, and you can imagine the flipping out hardcore fanatics would do over this. edit: by the way, for that inane response up there: 1 Earth Year is its orbital period. Show info on any planet in EVE, and you'll find varying orbital periods for each there.
DrysonBennington Eagle's Talon's	Posted - 2011.06.14 06:01:00 - [30] Branigan thinks that Tyme Xandr and the Gallente United Eve Directorate should war dec Somal Thunder and the Test Alliance. Thanks for doing the math Xandr. Although adding actual orbits to the planets would create alot of lag the idea isn't bad. Here is an idea that might get everyone going. Why not add non-mineable asteroid belts around some of the planets that the stations orbit? Not only would ship combat be interesting with pilots being able to duck into the belt to escape their pursurer's but cloaked ships could wait in seclusion for their prey as they left the station. Or make some station's covered in a dusty haze from the result of a planetary disaster that ejected portions of the planet into space?



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