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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:52:40 Before Hydra
The planning for this started back when Genos was in Pandemic Legion. The alliance was talking about the alliance tournament and discussing how multiple teams should be fielded because we had so many capable pilots. Genos were new to the alliance and we knew that if we stayed we would be relegated to having maybe only Garmon flying on their A team (Shamis choosing only pilots he knew) and a few of us on the B team.
Having lost to PL under the Hydra ticker in the previous year Genos wanted another shot against PL but with Gobbins having taken the active Exceed members with him to PL we weren't sure if we had enough people to even practice. In addition, after Genos left for PL all of the Hydra corps went their own way and we didn't know if they'd come back. We had a thread discussing what we should do on our corp forums and a lot of our members told us not to bother and to throw our lot in with PL because we didn't have a chance with the current state of our inactive corp and Hydra not existing.
The voices that wanted to give this a shot eventually prevailed. Last year was our first time and we didn't know what we were doing besides Gobbins. Gobbins had taught us and we learned from PL's spying and meta-gaming. We were going to do this as Hydra and we were going to do it properly. We approached PODLA, Euphoria Released, The Deliberate Forces, 0utbreak and The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels about a tournament run with Hydra. They all agreed and came back to the reformed Hydra.
Logistics and Setting up Testing
Last year PL spied heavily on our tests and provided the teams we faced with intel on our setups. We didnÆt want any attention from them this year. We planned to do this in two ways. First we setup a wormhole to do all our testing and second we told everyone involved to not get involved in any public discussions about the alliance tournament and make it seem that we werenÆt taking it seriously and instead busying ourselves playing other games like HoN, Tanks, LoL, etc.
We canÆt be sure how effective we were in making people think we werenÆt busy testing when we were but we did what we could. For example: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1514338/page/all
The wormhole thing was definitely effective though. However, setting up testing in a wormhole isn't trivial. You have to find an appropriate wormhole without any effects so you can perform accurate tests (can take hours of probing). You need a wormhole that has a static empire exit for manageable logistics however this also means that nothing bigger than an Orca can haul (20+ Orca runs were done multiple times). You need to set up a POS with multiple corporate hangers and ship maintenance arrays. You need all the characters you are testing with to be in the same corp with director roles so they can use them. You need to fill the hangers with all the ships, implants, scripts, charges and drones for every setup as well as every module you could possibly need. In addition we needed to get all of our characters into the wormhole securely without being followed knowing that at the very least PL would be interested in getting intel on us. Every time the test server was mirrored this entire process had to be repeated all over again. We ended up repeating this process from scratch 5-6 times over the course of our testing. Each time setting up a wormhole could take up to 12 hours of constant logistics on the test server from finding an appropriate wormhole to setting it up. In once case the server was mirrored twice in a period of 3 days and our logistics guys had to CTA from work and school to setup the wormhole in time for the scheduled tests.
We started testing immediately after the rules were announced at the beginning of April and continued testing for almost 3 months straight 2 or 3 times a week and in the last two weeks we tested every single day.
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:53:43 It also should be noted that our team consisted of people from all over the world in different timezones. We had people from Australia, Russia, Germany, Finland, the UK and the rest of Europe, as well as Canada and the US. All of these people adjusting their schedules and making sacrifices to routinely meet at the same time to practice over a 3 month period. From the Aussies waking up at 3am to the Canadians and Americans taking time off work and school just to PRACTICE on singularity for this tournament.
0utbreak splits from Hydra
For the first week or two, participation was just barely good enough for us to get 20 pilots onto Singularity to test. Most of the people who said they were interested never showed up and a lot of the more well known names in Genos were completely absent from any testing and ended up not being a part of this.
Participation dropped off in the following weeks and we were cancelling tests because we didnÆt have enough pilots show up. We had to think of something to get people showing up to tests. With the actual tournament seemingly so far away there needed to be some motivation. We knew PL was planning to enter up to 3 teams so we thought why not get 0utbreak into their own alliance and have them enter as well? This would cause more 0utbreak pilots to be interested because now instead of 2 or 3 flying on the Hydra team a lot more of them would be able to participate in the tournament.
This was the key. Numbers shot back up and we were able to test with just over 20 people now showing up to test on a regular basis.
ItÆs worth mentioning that when 0utbreak joined Hydra it was picked up on in their Failheap recruitment thread and many correctly guessed it was for the tournament however Raivi who was PLÆs spymaster last year also commented on 0utbreak then leaving. This made us nervous that he would guess what was happening when we wanted to keep things quiet.
Testing Continues
Now we also had to test for 5v5 setups as well as 10v10. Often we would not get enough numbers immediately and we would use the time to test 5v5 setups until people trickled in from all the different time zones to give us 20 people. This really helped our morale as well as there was something to do and people werenÆt wasting their time waiting for people to show.
Our base line setup for testing against was the Minmatar Rush. We lost to it last year and we decided that any setup that we came up with needed to beat it as well as be good against other setups or it was sc****d. We tested against Minmatar Rush so often that we became extremely good at flying it and we came to understand it better than I believe even PL does.
Since Minmatar Rush was such a good setup we could only come up with four or five other setups that could beat it and werenÆt simply hard counters but were also good setups within themselves.
Over the course of our testing we came up with 40 unique setups not including variations and tested about half of them against each other and against the strongest setups from last year.
Spying
PL started testing for their five man matches about a month after we had. As soon as PL started testing we spread covert alts all over Singularity and had a spy team monitoring the map for activity outside the main testing system 6-C. We had one or two guys actively monitoring in most time zones and constantly checking for any tournament testing activity from PL or anyone else. We didnÆt want to miss anything significant from anyone who took the tournament seriously.
We recorded everything we saw. The teams that concerned us the most were PLÆs B-team Goonswarm, PL themselves and Darkside.
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:54:17 We saw only a single singularity Darkside test very early on before they did the same as we did and moved into a wormhole. After that Darkside was pretty much completely off the radar and we couldnÆt get any intel on them. However their green online status lights would often serve as a reminder of their presence during late nights while we monitored other teams as they continually tested like us.
PLÆs B-team Goonswarm tested 5 man setups with some regularity. Initially we only intended to use the intel for ideas or to be prepared in case they were matched up against 0utbreak who also needed to qualify.
PLÆs main team began testing soon after in FDZ. We were surprised that they werenÆt hiding their tests at first and with everything we were doing ourselves there were even some suggestions that PL was completely one upping us and that everything we were seeing were fake tests for our benefit and that the real tests were happening in a wormhole somewhere. The effort required to do this made it a pretty foolish notion but I thought it worth mentioning because it was kind of funny with how paranoid some of our spies were.
In one incident one of the PL members Nestor told the Black Legion team captain ookke that theyÆd be testing and we had logged in a covert ops character at the same time (ElectricEye) oblivious to this exchange to find PL testing. This made PL believe that the character belonged to ookke and as soon as we found out they thought it was someone else we scrambled to get in touch with ookke and get him to play along. Were not sure how long they believed this but for a while at least they believed it was Black Legion spying on them and not Hydra.
We began disrupting their tests within the rules of singularity at first by ship scanning them during testing. Things escalated and we ended up using throw away characters that we didnÆt mind having banned as a result of their actions to disrupt tests in more annoying ways. After a few days we stopped doing this and just went back to monitoring their tests.
Sometimes they would titan bridge away and we would have locators on stand-by and multiple coverts stationed around geminate to get there quickly while watching the map for active cynos. Other times they spammed loads of ships into the system and tested in deep safes making them difficult to probe down. We responded by getting in system early and scanning the existing ship results and ignoring them before they logged on to test.
We took detailed notes and fraps of their tests and people joked that we knew what was going on in their tests better than our own. By the end we had about 10 pages about PLÆs tests and 5 pages on all other teams combined.
Meta Gaming Begins
With the preliminary stages starting we saw that PLÆs B-team would be up against the NC alliance WI. With what was going on in TQ with PL marauding through NCÆs space we thought that theyÆd be willing to listen to our advice on how to approach their match with PL. We had a very good idea of what PL would bring with their Mini Minma Rush being tested frequently against various other setups and suggested to WI. that a similar team with Tengus instead would fare well against the Minmatar team. We didnÆt expect much at all and it was just one of those ômight as well do something with this intelö. To our surprise WI. flew the setup well enough to shock Goonswarm and come out of the match with a win. Good job WI.
The majority of 0utbreak and Hydra had no idea that this intel was given to WI. Gobbins and fmercury who were both former Hydra members and now part of the Goonswarm team were teased relentlessly on our forums (they still had access) and asked how they could possibly lose. The few of us in the know felt a bit bad about this and tried to defend them but we couldnÆt reveal that we were behind this because we were still trying to keep a low profile about how much we were preparing.
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:54:53 This encouraged us and we stepped up the spying because now we had a chance to knock out one of the teams we were worried about before they even got to the group stage. To their credit Goonswarm adapted well and came up with a setup that would beat all of what was seen on the first day. Unfortunately for them itÆs not difficult to make a hard counter once you know exactly what you will fight. We explained to Majesta what they would face and how we felt they should approach it. We got WI. to vouch for our trustworthiness so that they would believe us. We gave them a very conservative setup that might not win but would for sure ensure that Goonswarm could not score the points they needed. Majesta completely ignored us and fielded Mini Minma Rush against the Goonswarm Tengus. As soon as we heard the line up over IRC those of us involved facepalmed. How could they bring something that would lose so horribly to Tengus knowing that they would face it. Majesta had other plans however, they didnÆt want to simply stay alive and deny Goonswarm points. This was another NC alliance that wanted revenge for the political events on TQ even though they had no chance of advancing. They brought an active tanked afterburning scimitar that negated the majority of the heavy missile damage that they expected from Goonswarm and took the match.
It should be noted that even though both teams knew exactly what they would fight Goonswarm made both the fights very close and still couldÆve won. Those of us who helped make it happen felt bad about having done this to Gobbins who was a big part of the PL B-team because he helped us so much last year but we were in the tournament to win. Hopefully he can forgive us. We still love you.
On the other hand 0utbreak managed to beat both of their opponents convincingly. We had no intel on either of the teams we faced here because we never caught them testing on singularity so we just had to bring solid setups and do our best. We were glad that no one spoke much about 0utbreak and that they remained a dark horse over these two weekends.
The Group Stages Begin
We see the groups and at first we are surprised we are in the same group as PL but then we realize this means we canÆt meet until the finals when we see the brackets. We also notice that 0utbreak is in a bracket with the two Serbian teams who fixed their qualifying match to ensure both would get spots in the group stage. We quickly determined that with the way the bracket was setup the only way to avoid meeting 0utbreak until the final match was for us to leave the group stages in opposite positions (1 and 2 or 2 and 1 but not 1 and 1 or 2 and 2).
Unlike the other teams we had 1 set of setups for two teams. We had to hide our affiliation as long as possible or else teams would have twice as many setups to look at to determine what they should field against us.
Our first weekend in the group stages was crucial for both teams. We could not afford losses or we would have fewer options for group manipulation later on to ensure we ended up on opposite sides of the bracket. This served as warm up for most of our team as well because both Hydra and 0utbreak were essentially full of pilots who had never participated in an alliance tournament before except for the very small core from Hydra who came back from last year.
0utbreak could not lose because we knew the Serbians would fix their matches for maximum points at the first opportunity and Hydra could not lose because we could not guarantee victory against PL. During each broadcasted match this week we tried to give people a show as much as possible and we gave everything we had. This includes having Hydra being the only alliance to successfully field a flagship as well as it being worth 30 to 40 billion depending on the fit. We had an armor format with two tobias webs which we didnÆt get to unveil and the riskier shield format that had 6 chelmÆs neuts and a setele smartbomb.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:50:00 -
[5]
The way you ended was an insult to the tournament. I dont care what you are about to type, no excuses at this point will cover that.
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:56:04 Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:55:41 We tried to feed intel to Unaffiliated for their match against PL. We told them that PL would likely switch it up to keep opponents guessing and might just bring Minmarush against them and wouldnÆt likely bring ECM again. We told them to use Minmarush themselves but to drop the ECCM for more tank to give them an edge. We were hilariously wrong about our prediction unlike in the qualifying stages. Thankfully Unaffiliated didnÆt listen to us at all and brought some random setup with ECCM. It didnÆt work but we still felt pretty bad. I think they probably thought we were working with PL after that.
After the dust settled from first weekend we could see that in 0utbreakÆs group Razor would not make it past the groups unless they beat 0utbreak with a handicapped setup or unless they brought full points and whitewashed 0utbreak. Both events were unlikely. We decided to approach Razor to make a deal to get them out of the group stage in exchange for helping 0utbreak get out of the group stage on the opposite side of Hydra depending on the outcome of the Hydra vs. PL match.
At first Razor declined the offer. The next day however they reconsidered and asked if it was still open. They did not trust us very much however. We brokered a deal with Chribba to put collateral on the line to secure the deal. We did not have much isk so we gave Chribba an Utu and our Flagship fittings while Razor gave a collateral of 30 billion both to be returned if 0utbreak and Razor both held to the terms of the agreement. We did the math multiple times for all the possible outcomes in this group and petitioned for a response from CCP just so we could be sure we had our numbers right.
During the week we kept testing our setups over and over to give the pilots that would be flying them all the practice they could get. However PL was testing too. Up until now they had nothing that concerned us. All their setups seemed manageable or things they already used last year. While everyone on the forums was talking about the joke match PL vs Hydra would be we both knew it would be as serious as it could get. We had complete intel on PL and none on Darkside and would rather have faced PL in a knockout than Darkside. As far as PLÆs feelings on the match I think that they feared Darkside more than they feared us considering the performance of each of our teams against them last year. It seemed to be clear to no one but our respective alliances that this match meant a lot.
While PL were testing they were trying their best to get an Adrestia setup that worked well and most seemed mediocre up until this point. They finally cracked it in the final week and came up with something fairly good. They showed us something else too: a Caldari rush team that started with HAM Tengus and Moas. It seemed laughable at first to us we didnÆt understand how it could possibly be any good. Then we saw it evolve into HAM Tengus and Gilas. In PLÆs tests it beat Minmatar Rush. Then it beat Heavy ECM. Then it beat their Damp format. What was going on? How was it winning?
We were worried. We had tested dual eccm Minma Rush against our ECM format and we had beaten it. Then we tested our ECM format against this and our ECM format got destroyed. We couldnÆt beat it reliably. We mentioned the setup to ookke and he said how it seemed tailored for Hydra with 28k ehp heavy tackle worms to counter the arty sleips we were bringing and to protect their logistics which was their lynch pin. This was a couple days before our match with them.
We then tried different setups against it and at one point we made a variation of PLÆs Caldari Rush in preparation to beat them with it expecting them to use it against us because it was their best setup and we knew they didnÆt want to fight Darkside. It got to the point where we even bought it and the implants as well.
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:56:43 Then in an emergency test on Saturday the day of our match vs. PL we CTAed our members in all the random timezones for one last test and logged in to the wormhole on singularity 6 hours before the broadcast started. We continued testing all the way until the first match. We decided to test Minmatar Rush against it even though PLÆs tests showed it could beat it. Surprisingly we beat it! There must be some mistake we thought. So we tested again and again until we were sure that it could reliably beat it under different circumstances.
We started to get paranoid. Was PL running fake tests for our benefit and was Caldari Rush a fake setup? Or was it a real test and had they made a mistake flying their Minmatar Rush format. We had seen them test Caldari Rush for most of the week so we had to assume it was real. We decided to go with Minmatar Rush. We also tested Minmatar rush against their Adrestia format and while much more difficult to beat, flown well, Minmatar rush could also beat it.
We went into the match very nervous. The match meant a lot to us and we didnÆt want to lose. We saw the Amarr rush with dual curses and we were surprised. We very much expected the Caldari Rush that PL ended up bringing for Darkside. As Creamster from Darkside mentioned on the Russian forums he felt that the same Amarr rush they used against PL should be able to beat the Minmatar rush when commenting on the DarkSide match against 0utbreak. Despite them having two curses and somewhat of an anti-rush format we were still hopeful we could win. Things worked out well for us and we took the win putting us first in our group. The self destruct and offer for isk was just a joke in reference to the events in the White Noise match immediately before. 126mil was actually transferred to me but I returned it since we didnÆt hold up our end of the bargain by not self destructing.
Next up was 0utbreak pre-emptively preventing the Serbians from going through by working with Razor. CO2 and Wild Boars no doubt intended to match fix themselves as we saw from the setup they brought before they saw what 0utbreak and Razor had brought. By fixing our match with Razor to finish second in the group this allowed us to be in the opposite bracket as Hydra and getting Razor out of the group. It was a pretty straight forward affair. Again some people suggested we fix the match by doing a conga out of the arena or bringing haulers but we didnÆt want that. If we had to fix the match we wanted to show some explosions for the audience. 0utbreak killed the points they needed in seconds and immediately self-destructed so as to not drag things out.
Things were going well. We had gotten the placements we wanted going into the final day and we hadnÆt shown any more of our setups. Afterwards we were scrambling to get our Flagship mods back from Chribba so we could use them the next day.
The Final Day
We had a couple guys from 0utbreak and Hydra doing logistics for both teams and since we expected to go fairly far it meant we had a lot of matches to play and so we had to buy and fit twice as many setups.
We each fielded our ECM format right away in our first matches to give the teams later on something to think about and keep them using ECCM in their mids or lows. It wasnÆt anything we had used before and we felt it would be good to change it up from arties, damps, neuts and straight rush. The first two matches were fairly straight forward for us.
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:57:13 We saw the PL match and while we wanted to see PL lose I think deep down we wanted it to be us that did it not Darkside. This is especially true because we were much more comfortable with facing PL than we were with Darkside who were a massive unknown. Ironically Darkside brought PLÆs exact setup that they used against us in the group stage with crusaders swapped for maledictions. While PL brought their strongest setup (from their tests anyway) in the Caldari Rush. It was a stalemate at the start until Darkside correctly went for their lynchpin and then things fell apart for PL.
The next match was Black Legion being ookkeÆs team against 0utbreak. We knew this was a solid team and we were wondering what they would bring. Having talked to ookke and with him mentioning that the Caldari Rush seemed like it was tailored for Hydra it made sense when we saw it warp in to fight 0utbreak. Ookke knew from the start that 0utbreak and Hydra were the same team pretty much. I think most people who knew about the Caldari Rush expected it to beat Minmarush but 0utbreak flew well and took the match.
Hydra fielded our flagship again to remind people about it in the match against Paisti so they wouldnÆt forget and we managed to take out their ECM format.
Then in the next match Voltron was upset by Razor to, I think, everyoneÆs surprise. We were pretty happy for them that they were able to take advantage of things and go from not making the final day to ending up in the final four.
This next match was going to be the toughest one and as far as we were concerned it might as well have been the final match in the same way the PL vs. Darkside and Hydra vs PL in the groups couldÆve been. Darkside and 0utbreak have some history for those that donÆt know. I used to be in 0utbreak before joining Genos and both groups lived very close to each other in Curse and for the most part Darkside usually got the best of us (0utbreak) with their drake gangs as we refused to fly anything but vagabonds.
This was an important match for 0utbreak not just so they could make the finals to win the tournament alongside Hydra but also to score one against their nemesis from Curse, Darkside. Personally I think this was the most intense and closest high level match of the tournament. This was the exact same match up as PL vs Hydra in terms of setups.
In the PL vs. Hydra match the warp in was very good for Hydra and we could get to the PL logistics immediately without going through the Legions. In this match between Darkside and 0utbreak both teams were directly opposite to each other and the warp in was as bad as it couldÆve been for 0utbreak. The match started and from listening in the 0utbreak FC had called for a wait and see what Darkside do hoping that maybe theyÆd separate to give them an opening. Darkside had similar ideas resulting in an epic stand off for the first 30 seconds of the match until 0utbreak decided to anchor on a sleipner and move together into position until the huginn was closer to the 100mn AB Guardian and in a line to the logistics that didnÆt force them to burn through the legions. Darkside let 0utbreak get into position and 0utbreak overloaded in and went for it.
The guardian went down slowly and the 0utbreak scimi was almost caught but survived just barely escaping. The Darkside curses did a great job at controlling the 0utbreak commandships and almost had full control before 0utbreak desperately tried to get rid of them managing to only get one down after the gaurdian. With the legions roasting the destroyers from 0utbreak and their range control huginn going down things were swinging the other way in DarksideÆs favour. 0utbreak manages to get most of the Darkside frigates down and a legion losing one of their commandships in a back and forth exchange. It was intense.
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:52:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:57:39 While this was going on we had 0utbreak and Hydra guys frantically running to Jita to get ships for HydraÆs match vs. Razor as we decided to switch our setup at the last second and needed the ships.
With the remaining ships left 0utbreak was able to get back in control of the match by forcing legions in close with TDs from the claymore and managing to get scrams on the remaining ships by burning the ship Darkside was primarying away forcing Darkside to come close and in range. Darkside was doing the same thing near the end and breaking through scrams and getting away. Eventually 0utbreak managed to put it away and seal the victory although it couldÆve gone either way.
Next up was Hydra using the Rush against the Razor setup which was the counter to it being an anti-rush setup. I think all the practice paid off for Hydra and despite fighting the counter to our setup we pulled it off.
At this point in both our minds the tournament was over. We had won. We still had officially one more match and we wanted to make it good for everyone watching. We had no plans at all for what we would do if we fought each other. After the first rounds someone made a thread on our forum mentioning this possibility with the intention of discussing it and we told everyone to shut up. We said that we need to focus on the task at hand or we would never get to the final at all. Over 3 months we prepared immensely but we didnÆt prepare for this all.
Everyone on the forums was talking about the lack of Gallente setups and how theyÆd like to see something different. We had tested a Vindicator team that had very close results against the Rush team. However the rush team was worried they would die too quickly for anyone to see anything so they fitted extra tank in place of eccm. Conversely the Vindicator team planned to only activate half their guns.
In our testing the Rush support beat the Vindicator support but the Vindicators decimated the commandships if they warped at 0. The match started with both of us in different channels on the same teamspeak to simulate an actual fight closely.
It completely fell apart and I guess we are horrible actors. 0utbreak felt that the Hydra alliance should officially place first even though it didnÆt matter technically so they stopped firing and allowed the remaining Vindicator to finish them off.
Yes it was staged but we wanted to put on a good show. We couldÆve more easily had 0utbreak fly something Caldari or Minmatar that would be countered by another Caldari or Minmatar setup and in hindsight maybe we shouldÆve just done something safe like that. We wanted to bring out something cool for the final and we screwed it up instead. We donÆt really feel great about it.
Despite that I think we prepared more than IÆd say the majority of the teams in this tournament combined. Our private tournament forum for this year has 214 threads and 2884 posts from the just under 40 people who were involved. We sacrificed a lot for this and we gave it everything we had. We beat both the other two top teams in the tournament on different occasions in matches that mattered. We have a lot of respect for Darkside and Pandemic Legion who both put in a lot of effort into this tournament and especially Pandemic Legion from whom we got the motivation to do all we did in an effort to end their streak.
This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it. I think we are deserving of having won both first and second in this tournament. To all those who say otherwise you are welcome to put in the effort we did this year and try to take our titles away.
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UMBONGO Hirl
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: UMBONGO Hirl on 20/06/2011 07:58:23 You guys acted dishonest and ruined the final of otherwise great tournament. Even tho you deserved to get to the final you simply ruined it with a prefixed game . Honestly if it was up to me you will be excluded from any further tournaments! Rules of the tournament should be changed so such a joke on the final will never happen again!
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Djakku
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 08:02:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Djakku on 20/06/2011 08:04:47 Can I get a TL;DR?
e: actually a p.good read. This is not a signature. |
Joe Space
Pod Liberation Authority
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Posted - 2011.06.20 08:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Djakku Can I get a TL;DR?
well, it's duncan so it's probably really nice.
i like duncan
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Mickey Simon
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2011.06.20 08:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Joe Space i like duncan
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Father Fondle
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Posted - 2011.06.20 08:05:00 -
[14]
You ****ed on CCP's efforts to make this the best AT ever, and you crapped on the audience who was cheering for you.
No amount of yada yada will make that go away.
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BondGamer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 08:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: BondGamer on 20/06/2011 08:07:29 Here is CCP's perspective:
They spend months planning, preparing, creating unique ships for this tournament. They have a whole webcast with an elaborate set and fly out people on their own dime to commentate on this tournament. They have up to 2 dozen people working 4 weekends to keep the whole thing running smoothly.
And you guys just took a dump all over it.
Good job.
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Syentor
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Posted - 2011.06.20 08:09:00 -
[16]
@ people who gonna read this. You faked the last fight. You can't make this right. And yes, it was wrong, skip the "this is EVE in its purest form" BS. |
Icylce
Frost Palace
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Posted - 2011.06.20 08:09:00 -
[17]
Now that's a lot of text! Honestly I didn't read it but it seems like lots of time and work was consumed in the process! And it all gone down the ****hole the moment u rigged the last match. U can make excuses about metagaming being part of eve but the truth is everyone who watched seen how u spit on the CCP's effort, the audience and EVE community and ironically also on your own hard work involved in the preparations. Your win has no value like this. If u are so desperate to make a bit of ISK u can always ask for help at MD forums.
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Kavu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:09:00 -
[18]
awesome read Duncan
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Grunp Trek
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:12:00 -
[19]
Good post.
I can understand that both of the teams didn't want 2 fight each other and then you both end up in the finals together which isn't your fault for being so good, so while it was a ****ty fight, I can empathise with ur situation.
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Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:13:00 -
[20]
i like duncan
Originally by: Queue K'Umber It is unseemly when a player becomes a self-congratulatory poastaholic
|
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flapie 2
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:14:00 -
[21]
After thinking about it all you really said was "Blablablablablabla"
|
Yldrad
The Dandy KillerS
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:15:00 -
[22]
All this work for a crappy final.
|
Reilly Duvolle
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:15:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 20/06/2011 08:15:19
Originally by: Duncan Tanner This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it. I think we are deserving of having won both first and second in this tournament. To all those who say otherwise you are welcome to put in the effort we did this year and try to take our titles away.
Yes metagaming and scamming is a BIG part of EVE, but so are hotdrops, blobbing and all sorts if tricks to gain an advantage. This is explicitly forbidden in the tourney.
Guess what is NOT a part of EVE. I'll tell you: Arena style fairplay PVP. Yet this is exactly the format CCP uses in the AT.
The tourney isnt "real EVE". It isnt a sandbox. It is a arena format designed to showcase "FAIR FIGHT PVP". Basically its the same thing as the difference between WAR and SPORTS. In war, everything goes. Not so in sports. And the AT IS a E-sport event.
Alliance tournaments showcase EVE online for new players and provide entertainment for tens of tousands of viewers. Alliances primarily participate to make a name for themselves and (since AT7) to get lots and lots of isk in the form of isk + unique blueprints.
After the finals, I have become convinced that some of the metagaming going on really crashes violently with the entertainment part of the tourney. In short, watching rigged matches like 0utbreak vs Razor, Circle-of-two vs Wild Boars and ofc the finals with Hydra vs 0utbreak simply isnt good TV. Metagaming has always been a part of the alliance tournament but the actual rigging of matches has increased sharply the last year, and unless the rules change we will probably see a much worse situation next year. Now if this was WAR (normal EVE) I would applaud it. But since it is SPORT, this is a problem.
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Bai ZongTong
HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:16:00 -
[24]
you guys are just jealous that im in hydra and you are not.
also we won.
(resubbed after 2yrs just for this post)
HYDRA PROVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HYDRA RELOADED 2009: APPLY TODAY. JOIN THE WINNING SIDE. |
Mickey Simon
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bai ZongTong
(resubbed after 2yrs just for this post)
**** I LOVE YOU.
|
Bai ZongTong
HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:18:00 -
[26]
also i like duncan HYDRA RELOADED 2009: APPLY TODAY. JOIN THE WINNING SIDE. |
flapie 2
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bai ZongTong also i like duncan
Sorry to say, but that really sounds gay.
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CHIKA QRE
MAX-Fail agency
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:25:00 -
[28]
I loved the final fight! It is 100% what CCP deserves. MAX - Immature cry for attention
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Redblade
Reikoku Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: BondGamer Here is CCP's perspective:
They spend months planning, preparing, creating unique ships for this tournament. They have a whole webcast with an elaborate set and fly out people on their own dime to commentate on this tournament. They have up to 2 dozen people working 4 weekends to keep the whole thing running smoothly.
And you guys just took a dump all over it.
Good job.
This, not to mention the poor guy getting sponsors to provide items for the prediction raffles, really made he's job easier for the future.
After watching the final and now reading how much of it is just backhanded deals these days I'd be very reluctant to even do any more if I where in charge of it.
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Kavu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon i like duncan
|
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Azishkra'elhykai Mizamel
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:25:00 -
[31]
I'm gay for duncan too after this wall-o-text.
_____________________________ Yes, it's a long name. |
Kavu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:27:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon i like duncan
empty quoted for Nexus, cause its what he would have wanted...
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sp3cial forc3s
Sileo In Pacis
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:29:00 -
[33]
Good Read and grats on coming 1st and 2nd :)
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Bai ZongTong
HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:29:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon i like duncan
empty quoted for Nexus, cause its what he would have wanted...
OMG KAVU YOU ARE BACK TOO!!!! this is like a hydra reunion~ HYDRA RELOADED 2009: APPLY TODAY. JOIN THE WINNING SIDE. |
Icylce
Frost Palace
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bai ZongTong you guys are just jealous that im in hydra and you are not.
also we won.
(resubbed after 2yrs just for this post)
HYDRA PROVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some ppl are really slow hmm? Your win has no value whatsoever and your rigged final match puts in question all the matches u won in this tournament. U can go on and pat yourself on the back with your Hydra/Outbreak fellow mates + minority of eve community.
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Kavu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:35:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Icylce
Originally by: Bai ZongTong you guys are just jealous that im in hydra and you are not.
also we won.
(resubbed after 2yrs just for this post)
HYDRA PROVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some ppl are really slow hmm? Your win has no value whatsoever and your rigged final match puts in question all the matches u won in this tournament. U can go on and pat yourself on the back with your Hydra/Outbreak fellow mates + minority of eve community.
M8 U WANNA 1V1 4 HONOUR>????
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Narkotik
Thundercats
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:36:00 -
[37]
Good read.
And people, seriously, stop whining.
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Launch TehMudkipz
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:38:00 -
[38]
Here CCP, I brought you your ~sandbox~
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Li'l Miss Dodixie
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:38:00 -
[39]
I love you Duncan. Awesomely done. This is a truly beautiful victory, and more than deserved for the hours of tireless dedication put in.
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Icylce
Frost Palace
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kavu
M8 U WANNA 1V1 4 HONOUR>????
I would say yes, because I don't really expect someone who needs to rigg matches to win eve tournament to be any good at pvp. On the other hand u would just blob me so I quess I'll have to decline. Also your caps lock seems to be stuck!
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Bai ZongTong
HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Icylce
Originally by: Bai ZongTong you guys are just jealous that im in hydra and you are not.
also we won.
(resubbed after 2yrs just for this post)
HYDRA PROVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some ppl are really slow hmm? Your win has no value whatsoever and your rigged final match puts in question all the matches u won in this tournament. U can go on and pat yourself on the back with your Hydra/Outbreak fellow mates + minority of eve community.
if all the other teams werent so **** even if we worked together we couldnt have made to the finals??????? HYDRA RELOADED 2009: APPLY TODAY. JOIN THE WINNING SIDE. |
Fintroll
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:45:00 -
[42]
there's a fair bit of bitter in PL that we lost and you won in such an overwhelming fashion, but even before i read all these :words: it was pretty clear to me that you guys just put in way more work and earned your victory
re$pect
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Kavu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Icylce
Originally by: Kavu
M8 U WANNA 1V1 4 HONOUR>????
I would say yes, because I don't really expect someone who needs to rigg matches to win eve tournament to be any good at pvp. On the other hand u would just blob me so I quess I'll have to decline. Also your caps lock seems to be stuck!
its not stuck m8 U TALK LIKE THIS WHEN SOMEONE INSULTS BAI ZONG TONG'S HONOUR
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Stabin
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:48:00 -
[44]
Vindicator posing for the win = Impressive
CCP Zulu red faced & CCP Soundwave speechless = fairly amazing
Thousands of screaming QQ cry babies wanting a fair fight = Priceless
Hydra Reloaded for the WIN!
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Wencher
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:50:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Wencher on 20/06/2011 08:50:22 I was about to read this long winded excuse and was prepared to consider your point of view on the matter. But then I thought :
Quote: It's disturbing to think that so many people who quit World of Warcraft: Cataclysm because it was 'too hard' are now posting here, in eve.
Quote: a lot of mad in this thread
Quote: guys guys guys guys, its HYDRA Reloaded, the alliance created to troll people, the alliance that owns no space, nor has the energy or give a **** to do so, why are you all so mad?
Quote: So much bitterness and whining in this thread
Quote: op should be banned from posting
Nah.
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Fintroll
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:50:00 -
[46]
for real though anyone who is butthurt that hydra ~cheated~ by being dastardly needs to shut the hell up
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Yosef Kaldhu
Guerrilla Cartel INVICTUS ALLIANCE
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:50:00 -
[47]
What you did i think was brilliant, and events and planning like this is what seperates eve from any other game. congrats to winning hope to see more next tourny
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Icylce
Frost Palace
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kavu
its not stuck m8 U TALK LIKE THIS WHEN SOMEONE INSULTS BAI ZONG TONG'S HONOUR
No honor for Hydra left in EVE after ydays final. I tought that was the point actually??
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Brahan Seer
Tea Tactics
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:52:00 -
[49]
I thought it was bloody brilliant. Good drama for the whole tournament and a good write up to explain how it all came together.
Seriously I dont know why people are ****ing and moaning about it. It was great entertainment.
Well done guys _________- Since 2004 |
flapie 2
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:54:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Icylce
Originally by: Kavu
its not stuck m8 U TALK LIKE THIS WHEN SOMEONE INSULTS BAI ZONG TONG'S HONOUR
No honor for Hydra left in EVE after ydays final. I tought that was the point actually??
It is the point, they just dont wanne see it and try to live in pride with the rigged fight that the vini team should have lost by miles.
|
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F1 F8
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Brahan Seer I thought it was bloody brilliant. Good drama for the whole tournament and a good write up to explain how it all came together.
Seriously I dont know why people are ****ing and moaning about it. It was great entertainment.
Well done guys
Did you not have any interest in seeing a good final between such able pilots under no pressure to win other than to have fun with their mates? |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:56:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 20/06/2011 08:57:45 CCP "ruined" the tournament by not broadcasting a giant chunk of fights, and spending way too much time in the studio, doing marketing bull**** rather than focusing on the PvP. Honestly, on grid antics happen because that is the way of EVE. Crying about it only fuels them for doing it more.
Nice write up to the OP. Best of luck next year.
Originally by: F1 F8 ]Did you not have any interest in seeing a good final between such able pilots under no pressure to win other than to have fun with their mates?
I would have been even more thrilled it wasn't like an hour of CCP bull**** between the last two matches. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Bad Bobby
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:57:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon i like duncan
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Joe Space
Pod Liberation Authority
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Brahan Seer I thought it was bloody brilliant. Good drama for the whole tournament and a good write up to explain how it all came together.
Seriously I dont know why people are ****ing and moaning about it. It was great entertainment.
Well done guys
i think a lot of people feel trolled by hydra. but as duncan explains very well, hydra took this tournament very seriously and competed hard. hydra competed so hard that both their teams made it to the final, but that's really everybody else's fault isn't it? yes, it is.
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Wencher
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 08:57:00 -
[55]
Quote:
M8 U WANNA 1V1 4 HONOUR>????
I'll 1v1 you for honour. But only if you let me win.
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darius mclever
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:00:00 -
[56]
thanks for the write up. that is a lot of work that went into the tournament.
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M Blanc
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:00:00 -
[57]
Awesome write-up, impressive amount of effort put forth. And congrats to outbreak for their fight with Darkside - match of the tournament, hands down.
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Peter Powers
FinFleet Raiden.
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:02:00 -
[58]
First of all: well played, and congratulations.
what i don't really get is why you guys didn't fight it out in the finals, i mean in the end you could have posted the same success story, but all of us would have seen a real fight, and you guys would know if outbreak is really the b-team of hydra... or if in truth hydra is outbreaks b-team ;)
either way, ops post is a good read aswell, kudos to your tourney victory and good luck next year, when everybody and his mom will be comming for you :) Deblob! the Website with Statistics about the BFF vs. DRF+Friends. Conflict!
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Brahan Seer
Tea Tactics
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:02:00 -
[59]
I didn't feel cheated. Hydra and 0utbreak were good enough to get to the final. Their plan worked. Ok the final maybe didn't quite go to their plan, but I still loved it. I thought the alliance tournament was getting a bit stale over the years. This was just great this year.
it's good to see so many people outraged, it only adds to my own personal enjoyment of it. _________- Since 2004 |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Fintroll it was pretty clear to me that you guys just put in way more work and earned your victory
If only you spent more time prepping and less time repairing POS mods.
As it is, HYDRA and Outbreak both deserved the top spots. NO ONE should be disputing that they earned them. Could the final match have been executed with more dignity or creativity, sure. But it was their moment to make: in both straight up fighting and meta gaming they dominated the field.
#TEAMDUNCAN ---
|
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Zamone
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:05:00 -
[61]
<3 Duncan. It was all worth it, it's awesome as all hell. |
Liang Nuren
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:10:00 -
[62]
I don't think anyone can legitimately complain about you taking the top two spots. No, what we can legitimately complain about is that you failed to entertain people in such an epic way in the final match of the alliance tournament. While I'm a bit aggravated that 0utbreak didn't take it in the end (ooooh how I wanted such an old name to win!), I think the people you should be apologizing to is CCP. They spent a lot of RL $$$ and effort to put this thing on, only to have it kinda **** on in the very end.
Best of luck entertaining us next time.
-Liang |
Belid Hagen
Resilience. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:12:00 -
[63]
I for one welcome our new EVE overlords. |
salty Milk
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:14:00 -
[64]
duncan does not like the "I like Duncan" meme.
but then goes right ahead and reminds us all why we all like duncan so much.
I like Duncan. |
Kersh Marelor
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:17:00 -
[65]
Afaik no rules were broken apart form some fluffy hearts and e-honour mentalities. So all should be legit and etc. Great story, absolutely lame and dishonourable approach towards the viewers, the idea of AT and CCP. But this is what you should expect from EVE community, nothing more, nothing less - fully cutthroat approach.
So yeah, CCP got exactly what they deserved for pretending metagaming does not exist and we finally see some real TQ action hitting otherwise boring arena style sport. PvP is sooo much more than the battlefield, good job you showed that.
The whiners... welcome to EVE ;P |
Knett
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:22:00 -
[66]
Very good read how it works with meta, training and alliance tournament preparations. As Duncan says. It doesnt mather who wins the final. Both teams feel like they won and their teamwork put them there! Even hours before the final both corps race to Jita to be able to Finnish on the top.
Nice to see a flagship in finals! Nice to read something this explanatory (even if not all is true).
And Darkside vs. Outbreak match was the best!
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HUROME
The Executioners Capital.Punishment
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:22:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Duncan Tanner This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it.
This, thx for an awesome show and a great write up on the things behind it all
o7 The one true greeting... |
Celia Therone
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:24:00 -
[68]
Such an amazing amount of dedication and months of work. Scheming and plotting leading to victories over some of the best teams in Eve.
And after all that being remembered only for being less entertaining than Babylon 5dotdot.
Priceless.
|
xo3e
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:27:00 -
[69]
after all this hardcore-nerd-trainings and matches i feel totally exhausted but this was epic
thanks for all who made their efforts for hydra/outbreak victory
hyrda provil! maim, kill, burn! |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:33:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Raimo on 20/06/2011 09:34:03
Daym, Duncan has a way with words, great read and very accurate. (Yeah I too like Duncan even though the meme is a bit iffy)
I had so much flying spaceships with Hydra and Outbreak these past months, maybe CCP should reconsider the importance of small gang warfare for their game? (Is fun yo) :)
Originally by: Fintroll there's a fair bit of bitter in PL that we lost and you won in such an overwhelming fashion, but even before i read all these :words: it was pretty clear to me that you guys just put in way more work and earned your victory
re$pect
Thank you m8, you showed us the way really. Mad props to all the exciting opponents, PL, DS, Paisti, Razor et al. Also, the top notch commentating team, Kil2, Shadoo and Raivi should really do this again. ;) ---------- The HydraBreak Perspective
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Lady Corrigan
Higher Than Everest
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:35:00 -
[71]
By far Best Tournament i have watched. Hydra Flagship was epic. Darkside are the most pro russians out and i just fitted a neut maller.
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Alpine 69
Rubbish Superheroes
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:35:00 -
[72]
Duncan, I like him.
Good read. ;) -
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The Yzzerman
Chaotic Marines Bang Bang You're Dead
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:37:00 -
[73]
I tip my hat for you guys
Well done !!!
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Azishkra'elhykai Mizamel
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:50:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Zamone <3 Duncan. It was all worth it, it's awesome as all hell.
I know that Pyro, Knifee, Hart, Zamone, and a few other pilots did superb jobs in wormhole testing and hauling, especially when that sisi mirror stuck a sharpened stick up their plan's ass.
I'd actually met up with Zamone IRL for coffee and lunch after the 2-day mirror patch on Sisi, and she'd gone three days straight without sleep to help fix everything for Hydra/Outbreak testing again. Watching her suffer from exhaustion and short-term memory loss was painful, and I heard she'd actually collapsed in the late evening before she managed to get home (luckily, she was accompanied and made it safe and sound).
The dedication she showed is testament to the seriousness Hydra treated this AT, and she isn't even in Hydra Reloaded. The end fight may have been a let-down for viewers, but Hydra and Outbreak deserves every single bit of this victory, as well as respect for working so hard.
_____________________________ Yes, it's a long name. |
Dorn Val
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:54:00 -
[75]
First I like Duncan :)
Second props to Hydra for all the hard work they put into the tournament! Proves what can be done if you want something badly enough.
Last I'm God smacked at all of the "it's not fair!" posts. Are you all playing the same game I am?!
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Zuquar Bonaparte
New Dawn Corporation Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:57:00 -
[76]
lots and lots of respect for all the work and effort you guys put into this.
all respect lost for not just fighting it out to the end in the final and then split the prizes.
If you really wanted to give the audiance a good show as you say in your story, then you would have told outbreak to continue kicking your butts as a 2 minute rush win would be so much more entertaining and glorious for everyone involved, all you managed to do was to make CCP look very bad aswell as making both your alliances look like 10 year olds playing pacman with cheat codes, aswell as risking people wont bother watching AT.
Nothing iv said is because im butthurt , or crying or mad or whining. all is said because of being hugely disapointed about alliances treating the tourney and CCP,s effort with such disrespect.
CCP pls remove all rewards from future AT,S and grant the winners a medal or statue instead , maybe even send them a ship model off own choice to put on there desks at home.
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Zamone
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 09:58:00 -
[77]
Garmon spent many a sleepless night theory crafting. And no one but him can drag so many soloers, and seriously some of the most ADHD PvPers in Eve (Still love you guys) together and get them so enthusiastic about one thing the way he can. He isn't just the greatest PvPer out there, he's a briliant leader too. He, and Duncan, and Hydra and Outbreak deserve this absolutely.
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Trajun
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 10:01:00 -
[78]
good read.Congrats Hydra/Outbreak. Might i suggest acting lessons before AT X
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flapie 2
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 10:05:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Zuquar Bonaparte all respect lost for not just fighting it out to the end in the final and then split the prizes.
If you really wanted to give the audiance a good show as you say in your story, then you would have told outbreak to continue kicking your butts as a 2 minute rush win would be so much more entertaining and glorious for everyone involved, all you managed to do was to make CCP look very bad aswell as making both your alliances look like 10 year olds playing pacman with cheat codes, aswell as risking people wont bother watching AT.
Nothing iv said is because im butthurt , or crying or mad or whining. all is said because of being hugely disapointed about alliances treating the tourney and CCP,s effort with such disrespect.
CCP pls remove all rewards from future AT,S and grant the winners a medal or statue instead , maybe even send them a ship model off own choice to put on there desks at home.
You sir just said what everyone else thinks.
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Xyla Vulchanus
Amarr Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 10:06:00 -
[80]
There's no doubting that the two teams prepared well and deserved their place in the final but...
1. By having two teams in the tournament and engineering it so that you would go into opposite sides of the draw you had twice as much chance of winning as any other team.
2. If you really thought you'd already won, why not fight it out fairly in the final? What were you scared of?
3. You've poured all that effort in and it was all for nothing. All you've done is sully your own reputation and that of the tournament. In five years' time no-one will remember your good performances, just the debacle that was the final.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 10:06:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Sig Sour The way you ended was an insult to the tournament. I dont care what you are about to type, no excuses at this point will cover that.
This to be perfectly honest. I missed all the matches prior to the final yesterday. I planned to watch them to see how they played out but after seeing the final it's just not worth the time to watch the others.
From the start with PL's crap ECM team it was already going down hill to this kind of crap finish it's pretty much a waste of time for everyone. It's not just about the teams that competed bu a let down to the entire EVE community as well as the staff/volunteers if any that helped put the tourney on.
Lets hope there are some serious rule changes next year.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 10:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Mutnin
Originally by: Sig Sour The way you ended was an insult to the tournament. I dont care what you are about to type, no excuses at this point will cover that.
This to be perfectly honest. I missed all the matches prior to the final yesterday. I planned to watch them to see how they played out but after seeing the final it's just not worth the time to watch the others.
From the start with PL's crap ECM team it was already going down hill to this kind of crap finish it's pretty much a waste of time for everyone. It's not just about the teams that competed bu a let down to the entire EVE community as well as the staff/volunteers if any that helped put the tourney on.
Lets hope there are some serious rule changes next year.
IMHO nearly all of the fights on the last weekend were excellent to watch. Go ahead and prove me wrong when they hit youtube. ---------- The HydraBreak Perspective
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:16:00 -
[83]
Honestly don't care what you did, that Final was a joke.
Outbreak clearly should of won if they just had kept fighting like they did first 3 min
Based on what you write though the clear intention was to circumvent the alliance tournament rules of only 1 team per alliance. That seems to be the whole reason according to your write up that you split off. Whether CCP would do anything about it is doubtful.
You've done damage to the tournament, how much we won't know til next year.
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Sashenka
Galactic Shipyards Inc Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:23:00 -
[84]
nice read duncan,
congratulations on the victories Hydra/Outbreak
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Bernard Modaff
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:34:00 -
[85]
Very nice read. I would have been great if Kil2 could have been allowed to explain the whole story during the broadcast...
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LtCol RTButts
APEX ARDENT COALITION
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:34:00 -
[86]
you can bring it down to a single point, at the end you need only a 5 minute old twink in a noob ship and the rigth deal to win the finals.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:38:00 -
[87]
Originally by: El'Niaga Outbreak clearly should of won if they just had kept fighting like they did first 3 min
Outbreak was only winning after the first 3 minutes because that was the 'script'. Hydra wasn't even shooting back. Then they realized that Outbreak was doing so much damage that the scripted Hydra hero comeback was going to be a joke so they just lamed it up for another eleven minutes.
The whole thing, including Outbreak getting ahead in the beginning, was faked (poorly).
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Ynot Eyob
Minmatar Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:44:00 -
[88]
Good read.
Respect for all your work, things to consider for next year.
I agree with some of the replies, you should just have done a real fight in the end, no need for a stage.
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Electra GaafCramo
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:48:00 -
[89]
So, because you trained for this more than anyone else, you feel entitled to **** up the tourney....
pffft
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:57:00 -
[90]
Nice and interesting writeup, Duncan. A very nice read. At least up to the point where you end up screwing the finals.
You did well in the meta-gaming aspect of it (that's a given), you flew your setups very well, both teams so congratulations on that. However screwing up the finals and not giving everyone a good show, no matter whether it "internally" didn't matter to both of you was extremely poor taste.
Viewers wouldn't have cared that it was team A vs team B of the same group, had the fight been in earnest, and interesting, with shiny explosions. As it was it looked like a giant giving the finger at the audience and CCP alike. What's done is done, but this isn't going to get you any sympathy from anyone. At least it's a lesson for the future should any such scenario present itself again.
----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
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Willl Adama
Judicio Sine Misericordia
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Posted - 2011.06.20 10:59:00 -
[91]
Nice read, Duncan.
While I too must admit that I was slightly disappointed after the final, I think HYDRA/Outbreak has been one of the most entertaining teams to watch throughout the tournament in general, and I don't see how one single screw-up should take priority over that fact. The amount of effort, time and resources put into the engineering of this entire thing is simply unbelievable, and I don't doubt for a second that your victory was well deserved.
In hindsight, you probably should have just brawled it out in the final match, but hey, people make mistakes. All in all, I think this was a brilliant Alliance Tournament and I have enjoyed every moment of it.
All I've left to say is; Congratulations!
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Jarnobi
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:05:00 -
[92]
It doesnt matter how much effort you guys put into this tournement, and all the ppl who organised this, its the bitter taste at the end wich ppl will remember off this tournement.
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Deaell Portt
V O O D O O
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:12:00 -
[93]
Thank you Hydra/Outbreak is was last AT i watch. What u did is so sick/wrong on so many levels and im very sad u dont understand that.
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XJennieX
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:12:00 -
[94]
wow.. looking at preparation for the tournament and people skipping real life like school and work for this.. internet spaceships is very serious business for some. what i dont understand is at same time many of hydra/outbreak people are saying about final "why are you angry we fixed the match, its only a game" does not compute..
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Kaeda Maxwell
Witchsmellers Pursuivant
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:12:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Kaeda Maxwell on 20/06/2011 11:13:13 Congratulations to Hydrabreak on the victories.
Only real shame is you didn't face DarkSide on the final day, how much you deserve this would have been beyond any question at all then. Still, incredibly amazing feat to essentially get 2 teams to finals and both semi-finals were really good fights to watch.
For all the people QQ-ing; Games record if you win, not how you win. If you can't grasp that EVE pvp is probably not for you tbh.
Nice job Hydrabreak!
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Wyatt 3arp
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:15:00 -
[96]
Worst AT ever. Long BS posts wont make up for that lame show at the final.
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Karah Serrigan
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:16:00 -
[97]
If Hydra is THAT good and garmon is THAT pro, why do you need all that crap in the first place? Just field your best setup and outplay the enemy. Why do you need to know what they field beforehand? I understand the system is rock paper scissor-ish and you dont wanna have to beat PLs rock with your scissors, but the metagaming crap is so bloated that it diminishes your achievement.
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Azishkra'elhykai Mizamel
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:16:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Jarnobi It doesnt matter how much effort you guys put into this tournement, and all the ppl who organised this, its the bitter taste at the end wich ppl will remember off this tournement.
I'm really tempted to make a sex joke about the anticlimax of the grand finals, but tbh there's far too much material for me to work with here.
_____________________________ Yes, it's a long name. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:27:00 -
[99]
Wall needs more text to be honest.
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Zamone
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:31:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Karah Serrigan If Hydra is THAT good and garmon is THAT pro, why do you need all that crap in the first place? Just field your best setup and outplay the enemy. Why do you need to know what they field beforehand? I understand the system is rock paper scissor-ish and you dont wanna have to beat PLs rock with your scissors, but the metagaming crap is so bloated that it diminishes your achievement.
So you advocate giving the enemy an advantage that we don't have? If anything is cheating, it's giving one team an opportunity another doesn't have. The guys spied on had the opportunity to hide and they didn't. It's part of Hydra/Outbreak's awesome that they did. Any metagaming Hydra/Outbreak did, quite honestly, could have been avoided by the receiving alliance were they as diligent with their testing.
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Commander Slavin
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:37:00 -
[101]
Honestly, this the most impressive display I've ever seen in eve. the people that say "you took a dump on CCP" really dont understand just what eve is about, and what CCP want to see... Meta gaming is pretty much promoted these days and frankly the teams that put in the most work seemed to win, well played Hydra, im tempted to drop an app in to you myself
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:39:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Commander Slavin Honestly, this the most impressive display I've ever seen in eve. the people that say "you took a dump on CCP" really dont understand just what eve is about, and what CCP want to see... Meta gaming is pretty much promoted these days and frankly the teams that put in the most work seemed to win, well played Hydra, im tempted to drop an app in to you myself
Where you see metagaming in the final ? Crying on chat please dont kill us because you are the "B" team and we are "A" team is metagaming ? So pathetic.
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Prozacxx
Caldari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:40:00 -
[103]
I am only saddened I couldn't be part of this due to RL stuff.
I too like Duncan
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Zamone
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:41:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Commander Slavin Honestly, this the most impressive display I've ever seen in eve. the people that say "you took a dump on CCP" really dont understand just what eve is about, and what CCP want to see... Meta gaming is pretty much promoted these days and frankly the teams that put in the most work seemed to win, well played Hydra, im tempted to drop an app in to you myself
Where you see metagaming in the final ? Crying on chat please dont kill us because you are the "B" team and we are "A" team is metagaming ? So pathetic.
M8 No B team No A team
Outbreak and Hydra BOTH put the effort in to get here. It was a joint effort. There was no crying, but there was, and still is lulz. :D
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:43:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Zamone
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Commander Slavin Honestly, this the most impressive display I've ever seen in eve. the people that say "you took a dump on CCP" really dont understand just what eve is about, and what CCP want to see... Meta gaming is pretty much promoted these days and frankly the teams that put in the most work seemed to win, well played Hydra, im tempted to drop an app in to you myself
Where you see metagaming in the final ? Crying on chat please dont kill us because you are the "B" team and we are "A" team is metagaming ? So pathetic.
M8 No B team No A team
Outbreak and Hydra BOTH put the effort in to get here. It was a joint effort. There was no crying, but there was, and still is lulz. :D
Yes we saw the chat they crying, and dont talk bull****s.
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Dograzor
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:45:00 -
[106]
I really appreciate the transparency here that you are making public. Absolutely hats of to you for playing the metagame close to perfection.
However, having seen all matches, I personally think Outbreak deserved to win this tournament. Their match vs Darkside was phenomenal, and it aced a little bit more compared to your PL match. I know you tried real hard on this, but Outbreak vs. Darkside was the highest grade & most frantic match of this tournament.
But again, props to you for setting up & moving this tournament like a chess match, that required some serious planning and skill!! Congratulations on your championship :) -
"We don't gank, we just apply force in a disproportionate manner during an uneven tactical combat situation to maximize revenue and increase shareholder value" |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.20 11:58:00 -
[107]
Great writeup Duncan, thanks for the insight. I'm personally of two minds about the whole thing; it's classic Eve, but from what I understand it made the final match a snooze-fest (I missed it...still waiting for the YouTube). Hope to see a great article in Eon sometime soon about the whole episode. ~Gnosis~ |
Jimetsu
Minmatar Musashi Logistics Corp.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:04:00 -
[108]
Thanks for all this inside information. Just made the whole AT more entertaining to me.
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gix tyrionn
Aces -N- Eights
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:05:00 -
[109]
Honestly not sure if watching a legit outbreak vs hydra final would be more entertaining then watching the forum rage.
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Raneru
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:07:00 -
[110]
Best tourney evar.
The amount of effort and dedication put into this was amazing and result thoroughly deserved.
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Viktor Del'Grande
Gallente Forschung und Entwicklungscorp
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:15:00 -
[111]
Well done Hydra and Outbreak! Well done!
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Fibonacci Pizano
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:16:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Fibonacci Pizano on 20/06/2011 12:16:27 So many posts saying sorry and explaining away what happened. Why not return the prizes? That would actually be a move toward reparations.
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Zarathushtra
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:19:00 -
[113]
Duncan says it all here.
Behalf of 0utbreak I apologize the final we should have done it differently. But like Duncan said we earned our spots and thats that.
Much love for Darkside was a great match! That obviously was the true final for us.
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Caly Lloyd
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:20:00 -
[114]
Good story, very riveting.
If only it didn't end the tournament by fukking all parties involved and vomiting all over the audience.
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Silvitni
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:27:00 -
[115]
Congratulations to Outbreak and Hydra, well played and deserved.
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knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:32:00 -
[116]
Its great that your good enough to get through to the finals but to ruin them like that? Couldn't you just fight it out?
On the other hand, no one has heard a peep out of CCP's PR machine on this which says everything about how they really feel about this.
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Samanta Raiolaser
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:39:00 -
[117]
I'm kinda glad I didnt sent the AT link to my friends from other games.
Once Outbreak/Hydra manage to get to the final, just have a good fight ffs! A good final match would be the way to thank the CCP team, the experts, sponsors, and the 28k ppl watching for their AWESOME job.
PS.: I doubt that if the final was PL vs PL-B(GS) they would fix the match. Just saying.
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X1376
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:40:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Viewers wouldn't have cared that it was team A vs team B of the same group, had the fight been in earnest, and interesting, with shiny explosions. As it was it looked like a giant giving the finger at the audience and CCP alike. What's done is done, but this isn't going to get you any sympathy from anyone.
This
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Yomamafool
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:44:00 -
[119]
If CCP had a hot younger sister, you guys just nailed her, taped it, and aired it at Thanksgiving dinner. PURE. COMIC. GOLD. Don't go ruining it after the fact, just bask in the glory.
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Joroc Senbel
Caldari Senbel Technologies
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:46:00 -
[120]
I don't mind all that was done to get HR's two teams into the final. I actually think it was brilliant. Here is how I would have handled that final though. Seeing as both alliances are the same team and if I were the Hyrda fleet commander, I would have told the OB fleet commander to bring what they believed would be the best setup and that I would do the same and just slug it the freak out and have no communication with each other till its over.
Other than that, congrats on a lot of hard work paying off for you guys. Next time just don't even plan the final fight, just fight.
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Alvia Siv
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:50:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Alvia Siv on 20/06/2011 12:54:11 Awesome read, and explains where the utter superiority comes from, however I was hugely disappointed to see you fake the final, especially so badly. It does cut into your success, or at least its impresiveness, and was thoroughly the ****tiest tourney match out of the 100s I've watched (Darkside - Outbreak being one of the best). I believe you guys should have just fought the final out, maybe with the exact same setup, to prove pilot superiority on either side, instead of putting on that oh so lame display, which not only didn't make Laedy look any cooler, but completely disgraced her :( Truly a pity.
That said: Congrats on WTFPWNing this A.T., Good Game sirs!
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Vaarun
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:50:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Duncan Tanner Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:57:39 This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it. I think we are deserving of having won both first and second in this tournament. To all those who say otherwise you are welcome to put in the effort we did this year and try to take our titles away.
After that exceptionally long account, you still choose to end on the same threadbare excuse of "this is how EVE is". I also blame CCP for cultivating this "anarchist" culture by being so lenient on scams and cheating, and in many ways encouraging it.
All of you are turning our top-level play into a joke. "To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
Zenst
Hall Of Flame Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:52:00 -
[123]
Thank you Duncan, realy good read, leaves no stones unturned. I'd even say it makes up for the final and fully explains it.
Also probably the most honest admission of meta-gamming ever.
That I expect at least expected a hauler 10 v 10, should the same sitation arrises.
Brilliant idea to practice in wormholes though and those logistics peeps who kept the wheels turning did just as much if not more than those that flew. Shame they wont get official medals though I'm sure you will sort something out for them.
Once again, realy nice read, and whilst long you realy don't notice that when you start reading and actualy wish it was longer, it's that good a read.
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Ethan Saisima
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:56:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Icylce ima sheep hurr-durr
Quit your preaching about e-honor. The guys put their work into the tourny, and got their fair share. They could've put on a better show honestly, but that's about it.
This thread is now about Shadoo talking with his entire face.
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REQUIEMSORN
Anakites
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:57:00 -
[125]
+1 and all the crying emo people are hilarious. AT is fun no matter how it ends, but it's probably most of these whiners only chance to see things other than rats and roids blow up. I guess that's why they are mad.
I approve of the final. |
00Dead
Caldari Vanquish Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:57:00 -
[126]
Fantastic report. Fantastic tourney - This is what EVE is all about.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:58:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Zenst
Brilliant idea to practice in wormholes though and those logistics peeps who kept the wheels turning did just as much if not more than those that flew. Shame they wont get official medals though I'm sure you will sort something out for them.
Once again, realy nice read, and whilst long you realy don't notice that when you start reading and actualy wish it was longer, it's that good a read.
2 excellent points. <3 Duncan and <3 all the hard working people that worked the WH magic! ---------- The HydraBreak Perspective
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CarbonFury
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.20 12:58:00 -
[128]
It's clear you guys put way more effort in than anyone else so congratulations on the well deserved victory.
That being said, you'll just have to deal with the fact that people are gonna be pretty ****ed off about the way you guys handled the finals. I actually turned it off after the first 30 seconds when I realized what was going on. You can't really explain or justify your way out of it, you're just gonna have to say "oops" and take the criticism
See you guys in real Eve :)
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Nisroc Uljanov
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:00:00 -
[129]
I don't mind the spying on other teams, that's just part of the AT. And you can get away with rigging matches early on. Like taking a dive for isk if you got all the wins you need to get through to the final day.
But I think most of us expect all bets to be off in the final knockout stages of the tournament. And this AT had been the best AT up until the final. The final was horrendous. I felt like I had spent an entire day on websites of ill repute, oiling and loading my gun, aiming at my target, just so The Old Bill could storm in and confiscate my gun before I could pull the trigger. It was a huge anticlimax to put it mildly.
You could have gotten away with it, you could have said "All bets are off", you could have won the hearts of every one of us. You could have let player skill decide the winner, taken a bow and walked off the stage. Instead you stumbled of the stage like Amy Winehouse after a bag of dodgy blow.
The real winners of this AT, CCP. Thank you so much for bringing us a great show!
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Blink Silverstar
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:09:00 -
[130]
As someone who has tried to "rig" a 4-way finals showdown in another game (3 teams of ours against 1 oppenent), i comment HYDRA and 0utbreak. for pulling the ultimate win. despite what the others said, you deserve the win.
true, you might have staged the finals better, but that's something you can do better on in ATX
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Reiisan
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:20:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon i like duncan
+1
Nice work Hydra, and a nice post from Duncan to boot
[i]Isn't it time you learned to fight back?[i]
Agony Homepage |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:21:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Nice and interesting writeup, Duncan. A very nice read. At least up to the point where you end up screwing the finals.
You did well in the meta-gaming aspect of it (that's a given), you flew your setups very well, both teams so congratulations on that. However screwing up the finals and not giving everyone a good show, no matter whether it "internally" didn't matter to both of you was extremely poor taste.
Viewers wouldn't have cared that it was team A vs team B of the same group, had the fight been in earnest, and interesting, with shiny explosions. As it was it looked like a giant giving the finger at the audience and CCP alike. What's done is done, but this isn't going to get you any sympathy from anyone. At least it's a lesson for the future should any such scenario present itself again.
Agree with Meissa really. Clearly on the pure amount of work and effort put in by Hydra and friends you deserved to win. But it did end with a damp squib and failed to provide any spectacle or excitement. In a way it saw the Eve alliance tournament change from professional boxing to WWE wrestling and while thats an acquired taste its not for everyone.
Some earlier tournaments were genuinely exciting to watch and even my non-Eve friends could appreciate the buzz around it and thus it can sell the game nicely. This one? I'm glad I didn't get anyone to watch the final tbh because it was embarrassing.
In the future I think CCP tournament organizers will need to make sure the format itself minimizes some of the metagaming possibilities with the structure of the knockout phase.
Join the Revolution!
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Darius Brinn
Iberians
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:25:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Darius Brinn on 20/06/2011 13:26:11 While I commend the winners for their hard work and all that, let's not forget that the Tournament is NOT EvE.
It's sport. It's a display of epeen.
It's for fun.
B-teams and rigged finals clearly tell a tale of twisted dedication and focus, but it's still a huge dissapointment.
And in these shows, it's not a matter of WHO claims the prize, but the way of doing it. Duncan's story of their preparations is not an excuse.
They trained, they hid, they bid their time...and then they metagamed like there's no tomorrow, and took a big dump on CCP, the audience and their own efforts.
If a Superbowl-playing team did AMAZINGLY WELL during the season, but rigged the finals, would you accept their excuses for "hard work overall"?
No.
In order to prevent this from happening, I would disqualify both teams, and hand over the prizes to 3rd and 4th places (whoever they were).
And next ATs, offer no prize, CCP. Whoever did this, will try to do it again next year, only refining their "technique" and putting up a good (and rigged) show for the masses.
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Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:27:00 -
[134]
tl;dr |
Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:35:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Duncan Tanner This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it. I think we are deserving of having won both first and second in this tournament.
It was actually a pretty good read and the entire scheming game up until the finals is really impressive, however finals itself is what I see as the actual problem, not everything you described before that. You should have simply fought normally and if outbreak felt so heartbroken over you not getting the first prize they could have simply given it to you later. The fight itself was a really foul play toward everyone watching and you had to realize it would leave a sense of foulness over entire tournament, including your otherwise great achievement.
It's funny actually because if this is true it turns out that outbreak are a bunch of emotional softies who decided to publically humiliate themselves for their BFFs.
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Balak Ragnek
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:37:00 -
[136]
It's a good write up, thanks. Aside from the obvious issues around the finals one thing I would say is you lot really need to take this a little less seriously in the future.
Eve is just a game, at some point it will be gone. Real Life however will still be there. When you have people skipping work and school in order to do what you did things have gone very wrong in your sense of priorities.
If your hobby is running your lives you need to take a break. Remember it's just a game.
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DarkProphet Kalos
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:42:00 -
[137]
Congrates Outbreak/hydra. All the hard work payed off
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Obviously Confidential
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:45:00 -
[138]
The deal here is deciding if we want "sports like entertainment" or an "EVE gaming competition".
What we have right now and what we call "Alliance Tournament" is NOT an esports event or something geared to provide standard sports-like entertainment to viewers, it is a competition between alliances where many of the deeply rooted behaviours intrinsic to EVE gameplay apply (as described above by HYDRA).
What you see on EVE TV is not a sports match, it's a competition that results from the reality of the EVE world.
I am under the impression that ALL previous tournaments were influenced by similar behaviours more or less, although in this tournament it became more obvious with the final match. But this is EVE and it's unscripted and unpredictable, the results are never good or bad, just part of the reality of the game. If you accept the obvious, it becomes easier.
If CCP wants to have a better competition of EVE alliances they can change the rules to try to prevent multiple alliances and whatnot, but it's going to be very hard to do this without severing the ties to EVE world. Viewers should just manage expectations and don't approach it in the same way as a sports match. Might look the same, but it's a very different beast. It's still entertaining, just not in the same way as a sports match, more like a reality show.
If CCP wants to have a true esports environment I would suggest redsigning the format, not giving away any in game items or isk and basically take away all the connections to the devious world of EVE. Effectively building a "clean room" like environment. In the process I feel we will lose a lot of the richness and complexity, probably ending up with less than what we have right now.
I can understand that lots of people are let down and the community rage at both finalists, but I think the problem comes from people assuming they were going to watch something different than what these tournaments really are ... it has been like this all along, this final just made the reality more obvious.
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Linu Glacier
Gallente Nemesis Nation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:45:00 -
[139]
HYDRA - the alliance who just could'nt raise the flag
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:46:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Othran on 20/06/2011 13:46:08
Originally by: DarkProphet Kalos Congrates Outbreak/hydra. All the hard work payed off
The problem for Hydra is it won't be remembered that way. Regardless of what actually happened (or not) it'll be remembered as Outbreak throwing the match, not Hydra winning it.
I'm not commenting one way or another on what happened, just what will be remembered and I'm afraid that people won't remember Hydra "winning", they'll remember Outbreak losing.
Enjoy the iskies lads for I fear you will get no plaudits for this win.
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Tobiaz
Spacerats
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:49:00 -
[141]
Very nice read, but the very negative response to throwing the finals combined with how much CCP promoted the event WILL come back and bite the alliances in the butt for next year.
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Chia Mulholland
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 13:52:00 -
[142]
I didn't watch any of the tournament because idgaf, but the amount of tears in this thread is just delicious. Well done.
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wackamole
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:54:00 -
[143]
AWSOME job Hydra!! Thank you for taking the time to post.
Next year I expect to see a ROOKIE ship slug fest for the finals...That would be EPIC!!
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Blacko Bellamy
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:55:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Blacko Bellamy on 20/06/2011 13:56:22
Originally by: Othran Edited by: Othran on 20/06/2011 13:46:08
Originally by: DarkProphet Kalos Congrates Outbreak/hydra. All the hard work payed off
The problem for Hydra is it won't be remembered that way. Regardless of what actually happened (or not) it'll be remembered as Outbreak throwing the match, not Hydra winning it.
I'm not commenting one way or another on what happened, just what will be remembered and I'm afraid that people won't remember Hydra "winning", they'll remember Outbreak losing.
Enjoy the iskies lads for I fear you will get no plaudits for this win.
Who can proof the story he told about all this very much *hard work*, is true?
Thiefs tend to have a lot of stories, why they did something, if they get caught.
Think about it.
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Joan Deplume
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:07:00 -
[145]
Pathetic really. Thanks for the long read and for curing me of ever giving a rats about AT. I was one of the poor fools who stayed up late to watch it, I wont worry about any other AT :) so thanks Hydra for being Awesome :)
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Emennt
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:09:00 -
[146]
Awesome work in the tourney, great effort ,you deserved to be in the final ... BUT Never rig the final match, GJ Outbreak you are the winner of AT9 in my book
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:10:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Othran on 20/06/2011 14:10:58
Originally by: Blacko Bellamy
Who can proof the story he told about all this very much *hard work*, is true?
Thiefs tend to have a lot of stories, why they did something, if they get caught.
Think about it.
Outbreak beat Darkside in a fairly epic fight.
That's NOT going to happen without dozens of hours of practice.
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Chivalry Lightbringer
Rogue Blades
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:13:00 -
[148]
Lovely report from the road to ATIX victory!
In a few days people will forget it, and won't be reminded until ATX closes in, and then they will already be interested in seeing if things have changed, so I really doubt that this will have any negative effect on CCP.
:)
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Randal Eirikr
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:14:00 -
[149]
Am I really mad? Other than losing my bet on 0utbreak, no. You guys clearly deserved the win for putting in so much effort, and as an EVE player who pulls all nighters to cyno, I applaud that.
But man, its the finals, I had friends watching that who were on the brink of finally giving EVE a fair shot. Then they watched that and just completely said '**** it'.
I'm not against metagaming, hell political intrigue is basically the top reason why I play this game. I'm totally chill with you guys having two teams in the AT. You earned this win, but you really really screwed the pooch for future Alliance Tournaments, CCP, and the EVE Community as a whole. Keep your prizes, you earned them, but I just wish teams would take the finals of AT9 a bit more seriously. Not so much for eHonour, but just how it affects the game as a whole and CCP. I'm a Telecommunications student, and I can't even begin to fathom how many man hours were spent organizing AT9, all to just lead up to.. that ending.
Anyways, grats on the win, you did earn it one way or the other.
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Rainarchy
Minmatar Balcan United Elite Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:14:00 -
[150]
You have lost all respect you had. Next year I won't bother to watch and that is sad as I really liked this tournament.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:20:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Raimo on 20/06/2011 14:23:12
Originally by: Rainarchy You have lost all respect you had. Next year I won't bother to watch and that is sad as I really liked this tournament.
Pot meet kettle
Quite rich coming from you, and you're not the 1st from your "honourable" alliance to post. I regrect us dissappointing the general viewers but having you lot this butthurt is priceless tbh (just click above link for proof of his "problem" ;) ) ---------- The HydraBreak Perspective
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Chelso
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:21:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Chelso on 20/06/2011 14:22:09
Originally by: Rainarchy You have lost all respect you had. Next year I won't bother to watch and that is sad as I really liked this tournament.
So you lost all respect for yourself, co2 and wild boars when they tried to do the same thing?
Neck up.
Edit: Snap
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Blacko Bellamy
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:22:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Othran Edited by: Othran on 20/06/2011 14:10:58
Originally by: Blacko Bellamy
Who can proof the story he told about all this very much *hard work*, is true?
Thiefs tend to have a lot of stories, why they did something, if they get caught.
Think about it.
Outbreak beat Darkside in a fairly epic fight.
That's NOT going to happen without dozens of hours of practice.
It does not matter how many hours you train on something, if you throw a game. They threw several games, did it already in the qualifying and changed the whole bracket.
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Rainarchy
Minmatar Balcan United Elite Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:33:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Raimo Edited by: Raimo on 20/06/2011 14:23:12
Originally by: Rainarchy You have lost all respect you had. Next year I won't bother to watch and that is sad as I really liked this tournament.
Pot meet kettle
Quite rich coming from you, and you're not the 1st from your "honourable" alliance to post. I regrect us dissappointing the general viewers but having you lot this butthurt is priceless tbh (just click above link for proof of his "problem" ;) )
I was about to get into that :-) I don't like it from any team.
Besides: what makes me angry, is not the fixing of matches, it's the amount of metagaming. In my pink-cloud world the AT is about the best teams. Not about who knows what about their enemy.
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Detria
Omega Wing Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:33:00 -
[155]
Good read and awesome tourney run for both your squads. Yes, you screwed up in how you handled the final but admitting it goes a long way and does not detract from dominating a strong field and pushing both of your teams into the final match. Well done.
Kill EM All, Dee
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Saul Reaver
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:37:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Fintroll for real though anyone who is butthurt that hydra ~cheated~ by being dastardly needs to shut the hell up
Or what? ----------------------------------------
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Acki Juc
Caldari 0utbreak Outbreak.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:40:00 -
[157]
Good read. |
Trustworthy Alt
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:40:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Saul Reaver
Originally by: Fintroll for real though anyone who is butthurt that hydra ~cheated~ by being dastardly needs to shut the hell up
Or what?
Or he'll kill your coalition. Oh wait . . .
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:42:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Saul Reaver
Originally by: Fintroll for real though anyone who is butthurt that hydra ~cheated~ by being dastardly needs to shut the hell up
Or what?
He comes for your sov? ---------- The HydraBreak Perspective
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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:45:00 -
[160]
Good read , thank you. Curse 4tw ^^
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SupaFlyTNT
No.Mercy Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 14:50:00 -
[161]
Great job guys. Know how much work was put into this over the months so well deserved. Hope these tears taste just as good as the victory itself
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.06.20 15:03:00 -
[162]
Jesus Duncan, I can't believe you derped this one up so badly.... ----------------
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Saul Reaver
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 15:10:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Saul Reaver on 20/06/2011 15:11:04
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Saul Reaver
Originally by: Fintroll for real though anyone who is butthurt that hydra ~cheated~ by being dastardly needs to shut the hell up
Or what?
He comes for your sov?
Best thing that ever happened to us loosing sov. I'm having more fun in Delve than i ever had in tribute. BTW i'm in 1DH in Delve. Wanna come take my sov lol?
Edit - In before the "Didnt want that space anyways" posts ----------------------------------------
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Roime
Gallente Talon Tech Securities Anarchy Unlimited
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 15:14:00 -
[164]
Good work Hydra & 0utbreak guys
Outcome would have been epic win if you would have just fought each other, in the good olld "may the best team win" fashion... you know you would have still gotten 1st and 2nd places.
Maybe next year o7
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Jaxx Mitchell
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Posted - 2011.06.20 15:20:00 -
[165]
my friends who i have been telling tales of eve and hoped to get em play the game were not impressed. most likely lost my chance to have rl friends join this game which is sad.
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salty Milk
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Posted - 2011.06.20 15:25:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Jaxx Mitchell my friends who i have been telling tales of eve and hoped to get em play the game were not impressed. most likely lost my chance to have rl friends join this game which is sad.
perhaps if you played eve with your friends you would engineer opportunities with your friends to make sure you and your friends came out on top, you could show respect to those you crushed on your way up and laugh at those who dont like it so much, much like some other people did recently, you may have heard of them
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Baron Agamemnon
Caldari The Einherji Supernova Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 15:27:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Duncan Tanner .
So... friendship really is magic? --- "And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space." |
Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.20 15:36:00 -
[168]
Awesome read Duncan.
You guys entertained us plenty throughout the tourney so I don't think you owed anyone an explanation but it's kind of you to take the time from your celebrations to post all that. It great to hear your story directly from you and hopefully it will somewhat compensate for (aswell as explain) the final.
As for all the forum whiners who (like me) did nothing for this tournament except enjoy watching it on the internet over 2 weekends while posting lots on eve-o. Frankly, it's pathetic. What a bunch of juvenile deliquents. Get over yourselves. You don't see CCP complaining do you? Most of you have no idea how much time, effort and dedication it takes to be good enough to manage what HR did - hopefully this thread will provide some enlightenment.
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okcerg
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 15:45:00 -
[169]
Great post Duncan, it was captivating to read. Like you I'm all for a tournament reflecting all the sides of Eve, meta gaming, back room deals and scamming, as I see the tournament as a part of Eve and New Eden, and not some e-sport using eve mechanics. It's the alliance tournament for a reason. But Eve is TQ, not Sisi. Reading you, I thought of all the game content you (and other teams) would have created with the tournament preparation if only it had to occur on TQ.
Anywayw gratz for the win, and thanks for sharing the story
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subtle turtle
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 15:57:00 -
[170]
I am one who was ****ed of at the final result, but the thing is is that I can't really be ****ed off at Hydra. You guys saw and opportunity and had the resources to exploit it and you did. As players of Eve Online, you don't have any responsibility to the player base except to play within the rules of the universe created by CCP, which you did. If the result of that was a final fail-match, you can hardly be blamed. The blame must fall to CCP for a broken rule-set. However, the thing about that is that try as I might, I find it damn near impossible to find a fix for the problem. With the open nature of New Eden, and the incestuous relationships of large Sov holding alliances (pilots and corps hop alliances constantly for various political reasons), who is to say if a particular splinter corp left for the tourney, or for any number of other myriad reasons? This was a great read, and I am amazed at the level of dedication and detail you guys brought to the tournament. However, the luxury to do that, with last second singularity CTAs, etc... is not one that other teams can devote to the tournament. RVB, for example, with it's very casual player base, doesn't stand a chance in this style of competition. It's a little like a high school basketball team, with the funding and resources of a cash-strapped school district behind it, going up against the Boston Celtics, with the cash rich corporate backing of a consortium of billionaires behind it. It's an absurdly un-level playing field. Thank you for taking the time to post this, and congrats on the double win. Perhaps next year there will be a rule fix that would make it possible for a REAL dark horse alliance to challenge the established alliance tournament elite (and break the monotony of the cookie cutter setups) and make the tourney interesting to watch again, but I doubt it.
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Vaedian GER
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:05:00 -
[171]
After reading that wall of text I have to say hats up for your effort and for taking the Tournament seriously.
But you really f**ked up the finale. Next time just self-destruct the losing side without doing anything else, leaving the audience stunned for 2 minutes. Or field 10 Thorax' each and go FFA. Don't try to act. _______________
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Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 16:06:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Baron Agamemnon
Originally by: Duncan Tanner .
So... friendship really is magic?
best ship in eve m8
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Tolund
Caldari Freibeuter.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:08:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Balak Ragnek It's a good write up, thanks. Aside from the obvious issues around the finals one thing I would say is you lot really need to take this a little less seriously in the future.
Eve is just a game, at some point it will be gone. Real Life however will still be there. When you have people skipping work and school in order to do what you did things have gone very wrong in your sense of priorities.
If your hobby is running your lives you need to take a break. Remember it's just a game.
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helpnuout
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:09:00 -
[174]
Being pirates, hearing the whine is awesome.
Being in the finals for the the first time and losing to the winner is semi-sweet. You hate to lose, but if you do, losing to the winner is at least some consolidation. Our only two losses were to Hydra and Darkside. Based on their performances the top 4 teams did deserve to be in the top spots.
The final, I think everyone knows, was pathetic. Should CCP be a bit peeved that the finals was rigged? No. It happens. They put on a tourney that had lots of drama. From Shadoo spitting all over the place announcing to the stupid coats that were worn on the final day. The tourney was fun for those that chose to participate. There are those that say the meta gaming ruined it, well go and sign up for club penguin with my daughter. I hear they get to actually throw snowballs.
All the meta-gaming in the world would not matter if a long shot surpises someone and then the whole tourney is up for grabs. No one knew to spy on Negative Ten, or did not spy enough. The what-if scenarios would have certainly changed if we upset Hydra. Were they concerned about us? Probably not.
Those surprises are what can make the tournament. It didn't happen this year. On to next year.
To Hydra and Outbreak. Crappy final, excellent other matches. To CCP, thank you for continuing to put this on. All the GM's that we got to work with were awesome. To the whiners of meta-gaming. It happens, get over it. To those whiners about CCP deserving a rigged finals? Boy you guys really suck and need to leave. You are worse than the meta-gaming whiners.
Helpn
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Metal Icarus
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:12:00 -
[175]
Hey hydra, you have been putting up SO MUCH effort for this win, the least you could do was make the final believable, like it wasn't set up. Sure we were all trolled but my problem was that IT WAS SO OBVIOUS!
"Durr hurr it was rigged man" Since when was anything in EVE fair let alone easy. This took a lot of work and it just made Hydra look like TEST at the end.
"WTF they stopped shooting the Vindicator!"
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Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:16:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Metal Icarus Hey hydra, you have been putting up SO MUCH effort for this win, the least you could do was make the final believable, like it wasn't set up. Sure we were all trolled but my problem was that IT WAS SO OBVIOUS!
"Durr hurr it was rigged man" Since when was anything in EVE fair let alone easy. This took a lot of work and it just made Hydra look like TEST at the end.
"WTF they stopped shooting the Vindicator!"
I actually thought at first that Outbreak had burnt out ALL their guns try put all that damage out so quick, turns out they hadn't, but if they had the match still would have ended the way it did as no guns to kill vindi = hero vindi kills Outbreak and wins.
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Giggity Girly
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 16:31:00 -
[177]
So the tournament isn't a pvp tournament at all. Its a metagaming tournament. Its hard to think of someone as the best at pvp when mostly what they've done is outside of the arena. If it were labeled properly, people would be a lot less critical. |
Chrysanthium
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 16:32:00 -
[178]
WOW.
When i watched the match and that last Vindi stopped dropping i was seriously confused, also thingking "ammo?" or "burned out guns?". After awhile though it did seem that something iffy was up though.
Then i got seriously p'ed off. Why ruin such an awesome tourney? I went in search of some info after work. And lo and behold, i see this.
*bow* Tip of the hat to you folks. A salute to the haters, but dear lord, cheering applause to Hydra and Outbreak. Seriously! Its stunts like this that makes me grin about playing eve. ((Admittedly, it would've been better if you guys had fought your hearts out in the last match, but screw'it - you won, you dictate the terms ^^-b )).
Serious amounts of kudos to the people that got you guys the win. I can imagine the anguish and the stress you guys must have gone through to get to where you did, and to pull off all the intel you did.
In the end i can simply say: WOW. I salute you o7. Maybe one day i can be as bad-ass as Hydra and upstage everything as well!
GF and happy hunting folks ;) |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:32:00 -
[179]
this owns, i haven't seen such unfiltered pubbie rage in...forever, really, you've set a new bar
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:37:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 20/06/2011 16:38:30
good read, thanks for sharing it
very deserved win
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Rigg O'Mortis
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:47:00 -
[181]
Excellent Tornament CCP, with great coverage on EVE TV. Enjoyed every moment of it. Congratz to both Hydra and Outbreak for reaching the final. But, shame on you both for the way you acted in the final match, Outbreak out classed Hydra in every way. The match was so easily theres. As for Outbreak they are undoubtably the winners, although their character should be questioned, as pawns of Hydra. Overall the final was ruined, hopefully CCP will take action during the next tornament! Maybe banning both parties from the next event for the way they acted in the final. Outbreak are deffinately the A team. Just a shame they have lost the minerals to prove it.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:51:00 -
[182]
Good read, well done, taste those bitter tears.
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ChaeDoc II
Gallente Sigillum Militum Xpisti Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.06.20 16:54:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Father Fondle You ****ed on CCP's efforts to make this the best AT ever, and you crapped on the audience who was cheering for you.
No amount of yada yada will make that go away.
This, pretty much.
You **** on the audience who, it turns out, wasted their time watching the earlier matches and then making time to watch the final. You **** on CCP and the work they do to organise and broadcast this because if the final is simply going to be a carve-up then what's the point in watching it next year?
I don't mind the dishonesty in the game itself, but the Alliance Tournament is supposed to be representative of the best small-gang PVPer in the game.
I also suspect had Hydra v Outbreak been their first game in their group and not the last then only one of those two would have progressed. Probably Outbreak.
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Delegado Cero
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:08:00 -
[184]
The only way to win is not to play (we won), but taking first and second place while ****ting on the whole eve community is the way to do it if you have to play.
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The Hardman
Amarr Uncle Fester's Olde Tyme Barbershoppe
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 17:12:00 -
[185]
Edited by: The Hardman on 20/06/2011 17:13:00 Edited by: The Hardman on 20/06/2011 17:12:28 There is one simple solution for the 'problem' of rigging.
Be better.
If there were 32+ teams that were A class and could win, Hydra's attempts to rig (or others attempts to rig) would be relatively minor. When there were only a handful of teams that not only had the talent (and honestly, many alliances have the talent) and also the dedication to put in the effort to have a chance at victory... of course it is likely the final won't matter. Whether it was rigged or not.
Generally all teams fall into 3 categories:
1. Tourists who just want to be on TV, and don't have the skill or dedication to win. 2. Amateurs, who are skillful but don't put in the time to win. 3. Elite, who put in the time and have the skill to have victory.
Unfortunately, only a few teams (and I count Outbreak and Hydra as one team for this) are part of the third category.
Good job Hydra/Outbreak. Well played.
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Pok Nibin
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:15:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Pok Nibin on 20/06/2011 17:17:02 It's been interesting reading all these posts, getting down to what the actual transgression was seems to be a dart tournament in the dark. Fortunately, a few hit the nail on the head.
It would seem if an alliance is so huge they can field several teams, the generally accepted ethos of fair play would not suddenly disappear giving everyone license to ignore what they've known to be true since they were toddlers in the sandbox. Yes, it may present difficulties, but actually, if you couldn't field those teams without stepping all over the principals of fair play, in truth you couldn't field as many teams as you thought.
But, that's not the point. It's beside the point. The entire OP is beside the point. I don't think it's intentional deception. I think it's evidence of a lack of understanding of some fundamental concepts.
You don't hold meetings with your competition...unless you're up to something. It's just that simple. There's impropriety, but there's also the "appearance of impropriety." Fair and honest competitors are sensitive to these things and don't have to be told.
In this case, it was all part of the "plan". That word keeps cropping up with no regard to its significance. You have two competitors planning? You have conspiracy. There is no innocent motivation in this. It is what it is.
Given that, Mr. Tanner's rather lengthy excuse becomes a waste of bandwidth. In the end, we have to take someone's word for something and that someone has already demonstrated a lack of integrity. It's a wash. (By the way, I did read the entire post, which became more painful as I went along. I raised four kids. I've heard every "I didn't steal the cookies," excuse there is, and this post hasn't dreamed up a new one.)
It wasn't that I was disappointed to find a rigged final on the interweb TV toob. It was someone (once again) said they were going to do something which they did not do. Integrity.
It isn't a fashion. It can't go out of style. In the end this entire rebuttal by the offenders belongs in the "Get a clue" file...including all the "great post" responses by Hydra Reloaded members. They read like Al Capone's cronies saying "Good job boss," after he bribed a municipal judge, and offed a few witnesses.
Give my weary eyes a rest.
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Rgarcia
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 17:18:00 -
[187]
"By fixing our match with Razor to finish second in the group this allowed us to be in the opposite bracket as Hydra and getting Razor out of the group"
So sad to see how rigged the AT is. I wonder how much isk the Hydra ppl won from the fixed betting? I was oging to place a few bets but I am so glad I didn't now. I just feel bad to all those who weren't in the "know" and lost tons of isk. Must be nice tobet when you know who will win.
Also CCP's position is it's all fair according to the rules. Which is true depending on your perspective but they have lost more than they realize for not handling this better. Good luck getting 3rd party sponsors for next year, getting people to watch it besides the ten or twelve who said they would, good luck to getting people to enter it, and good luck getting more people to play with yet another scandal.
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noise
Minmatar m3 Corp
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:23:00 -
[188]
Congrats on the win, well played and planned! ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
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The Hardman
Amarr Uncle Fester's Olde Tyme Barbershoppe
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:25:00 -
[189]
How is it a scandal?
How is any of this rigged in the traditional sense? If other groups were just better, Hydra would have lost. Hydra had no advantage over their competition.
So how is this a scandal?
I would agree with you if somehow Hydra snuck in officer fits on all their ships or HG implants or something. But they didn't. They played by the rules, the same rules as everyone else played by. And if there had been more than a couple of other teams with a shot at victory, they would not have succeeded.
And most teams not having a shot at victory is because of their own lack and nothing to do with anything Hydra did.
Most teams hardly practice at all. Why should they expect to have a good chance if they don't practice?
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Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:26:00 -
[190]
People will watch next year, same as people will compete and people will enjoy it, because in a week or two everyone will stop trolling about this and forget it happened, and next year it'll probably all happen again, except we won't be sitting inside our spaceships in stations.
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Myrkala
Minmatar Rebel Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:35:00 -
[191]
Hydra and Outbreak should have had a legit fight in the final.
Pros:
- Viewers none the wiser, good entertainment.
- You can repeat it again next year (if you want) with out the majority of people knowing.
Cons:
- Not as much e-peen waving. - "Community" not hating you.
-
Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Minmatar? More like Winmatar.
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MisterNick
Gallente The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:40:00 -
[192]
Firstly, impressive wall of text.
It's clear that you guys deserved to be in the final, indeed with both of your teams. But that was a truly dreadful final, massive fail in even attempting to make it interesting - You should clearly have made it a 10 v 10 faction frigate dogfight
-----------------------------------------------
"Fools! I'll show them all!"
What do you mean that one's already taken? |
Icylce
Frost Palace
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 17:46:00 -
[193]
Originally by: The Hardman How is it a scandal?
How is any of this rigged in the traditional sense? If other groups were just better, Hydra would have lost. Hydra had no advantage over their competition.
So how is this a scandal?
I would agree with you if somehow Hydra snuck in officer fits on all their ships or HG implants or something. But they didn't. They played by the rules, the same rules as everyone else played by. And if there had been more than a couple of other teams with a shot at victory, they would not have succeeded.
And most teams not having a shot at victory is because of their own lack and nothing to do with anything Hydra did.
Most teams hardly practice at all. Why should they expect to have a good chance if they don't practice?
Seriously. How is it that u don't get it? U know that, according to your logic the antisemitic Nurnberg laws are all right because it's just following the rules.
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Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:48:00 -
[194]
This is the kind of stuff I love to read. Excellent story telling. Shame we did not get a chance to disrupt your plans. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:50:00 -
[195]
Actually that would have been pretty epic, mid-way through the match, it's obvious what's going on then SUDDENLY CCP Shriegs flies into the arena with his Erebus and annihilates everyone with his out-of-date AoE Doomsday gun!
.... come to think of it if that HAD happened it would have been the ultimate twist, and everyone would have loved it
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Shasz
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:53:00 -
[196]
That was a great writeup Duncan, thanks for taking the time.
You guys put in what sounds to be an amazing amount of work and props to you all for the 1-2 finish.
But like most opinions, come on... all 20 of you in rifters would've been a more exciting finish than a grand finale where no one took it seriously. It really did **** on an internet spaceships "big deal" production not to even try to have a real battle at the end. ___________________________________
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Koeki
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Posted - 2011.06.20 17:53:00 -
[197]
Very good job on the preparations and the meta gaming was brilliant. You guys deserve to be 1st and 2nd.
Regarding the last match: I have been killed by lowlife scum pirates with more honor than you. I have been scammed by Jita honorless scammers with more honor than you. I think HYDRA is the B-team of Outbreak and you should have given them the chance to prove it, even if you wanted to keep the cruisers and given them the frigates.
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G0rF
Gallente The Causality Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:04:00 -
[198]
Good read. Thanks for taking the time to do such a detailed write up.
ATs always seem to be a case of half a dozen big money alliances hiving off up and fielding most of the teams in the competition and then metagaming their way to the final.
I don't understand why everyone's so surprised.
Oh, and well played Hydra / 0utbreak.
CLICK FOR RECRUITMENT INFO |
Triple Entendre
Atrocity.
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:04:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Triple Entendre on 20/06/2011 18:04:38
Originally by: Giggity Girly So the tournament isn't a pvp tournament at all. Its a metagaming tournament. Its hard to think of someone as the best at pvp when mostly what they've done is outside of the arena. If it were labeled properly, people would be a lot less critical.
PVP doesn't stop at ships exploding.
Just like everything else in this game, this was obviously just as much a show of out-thinking and outsmarting your opponents than out-gunning them.
Great read, you sneaky bastards you.
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Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:05:00 -
[200]
woop, 200th reply \o/
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Triple Entendre
Atrocity.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:07:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Kagumichan woop, 200th reply \o/
DAMNIT.
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Master Technique
Club Bear HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:08:00 -
[202]
First, grats to HYDRA and Outbreak. I have the ticker, but I've not been active and definitely did not contribute to their efforts.
To the complainers:
You all refuse to consider all the elements of this story. They earned, to the highest degree, their right to be in the finals against each other. First, go read all of Duncan's post and tell us you have put that much effort into anything in this game besides whining on the forum. Second, stop considering the final "fake". They gave you a real fight. 20 ships were on the field, and one team began ****tossing the other. What happened next was not a botched arrangement, it was an act of honor and respect for a man and a team that dedicated an unhealthy amount of time to this game. This is not a group of people "****ting" on their audience. It sounds like a story line for the feel good movie of the Summer. If you had not imagined there would be some sort of communication between the two finals teams before it happened, then you need to pay more attention. Kil2 talked all weekend about them training together. You didn't even have to use deductive reasoning, you just had to listen, but please carry on insulting your own intelligence if you wish.
In summation, this was a fantastic tournament. There were a lot of good teams, a few excellent teams, the commentary and production quality were top notch, and I think next year will be just as awesome if not better.
Grats again m8s. |
Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:08:00 -
[203]
Just thought I'd add a bit of a joke post in there to hopefully lighten the mood, lots of raging hormones in the forums of-late :P
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:11:00 -
[204]
Garmon has a tendency to troll, a lot.
Normally its just mildly amusing, but this time it may bite him in the ass.
I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.
While I completely agree with how you went about what you did, and why you did it, because we had the idea to at least try it too, I wouldn't be shocked if you somehow get robbed of your prize, or it takes forever to be delivered.
And judging by the continuous stream of angry hate threads, I wouldn't expect a public outcry were they to not give you your prizes.
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manlet
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:13:00 -
[205]
Hyrda and Outbreak where by far the best two teams in the tournament, the amount of effort and planning put in was amazing, they truely deserve their victories and isk for all that hard work, I dont think anyone can question that.
However part of me was disappointed, I kinda wanted to see a good old fight at the end, both teams figting for merit and honour, a slugfest to end the tournament off in style. Sadly we didnt get it, and the tournament ended as a damp squid, and has perhaps slightly stained their achievements. But I doubt they will mind when counting all that isk up ;)
Anyway Congrats on the victory Hyrda and Outbreak, the best 2 teams no question!
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Akiba Penrose
The Praxis Initiative
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:15:00 -
[206]
Originally by: BondGamer Edited by: BondGamer on 20/06/2011 08:07:29 Here is CCP's perspective:
They spend months planning, preparing, creating unique ships for this tournament. They have a whole webcast with an elaborate set and fly out people on their own dime to commentate on this tournament. They have up to 2 dozen people working 4 weekends to keep the whole thing running smoothly.
And you guys just took a dump all over it.
Good job.
Originally by: Koeki
Regarding the last match: I have been killed by lowlife scum pirates with more honor than you. I have been scammed by Jita honorless scammers with more honor than you. I think HYDRA is the B-team of Outbreak and you should have given them the chance to prove it, even if you wanted to keep the cruisers and given them the frigates.
These two posts sums it up for me. It really surprises me that anyone would make their way to the final and then just throw it.
Apparently the AT is not about becoming champions any more, but getting free ships from CCP. I say remove the prices, so we dont have to watch crap like this any more.
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Icylce
Frost Palace
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:19:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Master Technique
To the complainers:
You all refuse to consider all the elements of this story. They earned, to the highest degree, their right to be in the finals against each other. First, go read all of Duncan's post and tell us you have put that much effort into anything in this game besides whining on the forum. Second, stop considering the final "fake". They gave you a real fight. 20 ships were on the field, and one team began ****tossing the other. What happened next was not a botched arrangement, it was an act of honor and respect for a man and a team that dedicated an unhealthy amount of time to this game. This is not a group of people "****ting" on their audience. It sounds like a story line for the feel good movie of the Summer. If you had not imagined there would be some sort of communication between the two finals teams before it happened, then you need to pay more attention. Kil2 talked all weekend about them training together. You didn't even have to use deductive reasoning, you just had to listen, but please carry on insulting your own intelligence if you wish.
U have a weird idea of real fight. And wird idea about honor. Also your argument 'respect and honor to one hero pilot' has a fatal flaw. This tournament wouldn't have happened without CCP and their work. Where is the respect and honor for them?
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:25:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.
Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums. ~Gnosis~ |
Liang Nuren
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:26:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 20/06/2011 18:27:10
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Grath Telkin
I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.
Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums.
Can we link to posts from people who were at the alliance tournament after the camera turned off? :)
Ed: And TBH if you think CCP won't be mad about a finals like that, then you're ****ing delusional. CCP spent a lot of RL $$$ throwing a bash like that, and even managed to score external sponsorship and RL prizes. The final was a ****up of MASSIVE proportion, and CCP has every right to be ****ed about it. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Icylce
Frost Palace
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:32:00 -
[210]
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums.
And even smaller percentage of eve player base is satisfied with how things worked out. What's your point?
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Issler Dainze
Minmatar Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:38:00 -
[211]
Thanks for sharing all the work you put into the AT. Both teams clearly deserved to make it to the finals. But...
If you were going to tank the final match I wish you would have done it with more style. Why not have both teams show up with low level frigates, civilian level gear and rockets then really fight it out to the end. It would have been hilarious! Instead you ruined the AT for most everyone that takes it seriously.
I think this also should show CCP that they have managed to create the most meta-gamed and corrupt culture in all of gaming. This has gone way past a game that lets you shoot random people in the face as CCP has often described it.
As someone who has lead an alliance mostly of "carebears" for a number of years and actually entered the AT twice (once sort of serious and the second time not so much) I am dissappointed in how this one ended because I did think of it as one of the "pure" things left in Eve. Folks drop the politics and just have it out on a level playing field.
Now I am reminded once again there really are two Eves. The one folks like me live in, the carebear spreadsheets in space one and the "meta-Eve" that is played a level I'll never experience. One with massive RL resources applied to gain advantage, with real spying in game and in RL and that requires thousands of pilots to align having no idea what their leadership is really doing for or in Eve often "TO" them. This is an Eve I never expect to experience directly.
So has CCP created something more wonderful than even they could have inagined or more horrible than any game that has ever come before?
Both I think....
Issler
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Messy Beaver
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:39:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Saul Reaver
Originally by: Fintroll for real though anyone who is butthurt that hydra ~cheated~ by being dastardly needs to shut the hell up
Or what?
He'll lose his space, move to delve and get spanked |
MrMojo
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:39:00 -
[213]
EVE
Where manipulation; scheming; sinister underhand tactics and domination strategies are not only encouraged, they are actively advertised and promoted by CCP...
The amount of work required, in and out of game, to achieve what Outbreak and Hydra have in this tournament is simply outstanding
Those complaining frankly don't understand what it is that makes EVE special
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Master Technique
Club Bear HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:41:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Icylce
Originally by: Master Technique
To the complainers:
You all refuse to consider all the elements of this story. They earned, to the highest degree, their right to be in the finals against each other. First, go read all of Duncan's post and tell us you have put that much effort into anything in this game besides whining on the forum. Second, stop considering the final "fake". They gave you a real fight. 20 ships were on the field, and one team began ****tossing the other. What happened next was not a botched arrangement, it was an act of honor and respect for a man and a team that dedicated an unhealthy amount of time to this game. This is not a group of people "****ting" on their audience. It sounds like a story line for the feel good movie of the Summer. If you had not imagined there would be some sort of communication between the two finals teams before it happened, then you need to pay more attention. Kil2 talked all weekend about them training together. You didn't even have to use deductive reasoning, you just had to listen, but please carry on insulting your own intelligence if you wish.
U have a weird idea of real fight. And wird idea about honor. Also your argument 'respect and honor to one hero pilot' has a fatal flaw. This tournament wouldn't have happened without CCP and their work. Where is the respect and honor for them?
It was uh...in the same post.
Originally by: Master Technique
In summation, this was a fantastic tournament. There were a lot of good teams, a few excellent teams, the commentary and production quality were top notch, and I think next year will be just as awesome if not better.
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SupaFlyTNT
No.Mercy Merciless.
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:47:00 -
[215]
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Grath Telkin
I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.
Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums.
Ive only seen one post since the tourney by Navigator - cant find it now so v0v.
Basically said that if they wanted to throw the match its their perogative - this is Eve online where this stuff can,does and will happen. He is right too.
Havent seen any of this rage and nor should their be, CCP can get butthurt all they want about the result - they created the rules for this to happen in the first place and its been going on for more alliance tournaments than just this one. If people cant see that then meh.... let them cry.
Its not like the sponsors will care - they just want lots of people watching the adverts. They wont be bothered about the result of some internet spaceship match In this respect, and the fact that everyone is raging about it, they probably love the fact this happened.
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Slaktoid
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:48:00 -
[216]
Great read. Much respect for the dedication and work that was done. Congratulations!
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Phain Death
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:50:00 -
[217]
While the final fight was a letdown from a spectator viewpoint, the forum tears it has generated more than make up for it.
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Icylce
Frost Palace
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:55:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Master Technique
It was uh...in the same post.
Originally by: Master Technique
In summation, this was a fantastic tournament. There were a lot of good teams, a few excellent teams, the commentary and production quality were top notch, and I think next year will be just as awesome if not better.
Yes after spitting into their face during final match few posts on forums will make everything fine! Personally I would understand any thank you good job ccp posts from hydra/outbreak members as mocking and taunting.
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Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:55:00 -
[219]
That post from Navigator is in the Predict The Winner: Outbreak Vs. RAZOR Alliance thread.
There is also a lot of trolling in that thread.
If you are scared of trolls, do not approach the thread
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Shasz
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.06.20 18:59:00 -
[220]
Soundwave's take on things from GD forum speaks well from between the lines.
___________________________________
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Redblade
Reikoku Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.20 19:25:00 -
[221]
Originally by: SupaFlyTNT Its not like the sponsors will care - they just want lots of people watching the adverts. They wont be bothered about the result of some internet spaceship match In this respect, and the fact that everyone is raging about it, they probably love the fact this happened.
Unless there adds and product giveaways is associated with a negative experience, which this was for many.
Now personally I couldn't care who won as such, that they didn't put on a proper fight will have consequences though. Less people are likely watch it next year unless rules are changed, this in turn has effects on future sponsors. Interest to attend might drop as well, why bother to enter if you can't spend 3 months of your life with tons of spies and trying every possible combination of everything, not to mention getting at least two teams in to increase your odds.
If you want a true PVP tournament then CCP should give both teams X number of the same randomly selected ships 30min before fight, whom ever wins that knows how to adapt and make what he can of the situation. And no selling spots, no fixing of matches or any other shenanigans, make that grounds for disqualifying.
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Pesadel0
the muppets RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 19:37:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Pesadel0 on 20/06/2011 19:38:56
Originally by: Grath Telkin Garmon has a tendency to troll, a lot.
Normally its just mildly amusing, but this time it may bite him in the ass.
I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.
While I completely agree with how you went about what you did, and why you did it, because we had the idea to at least try it too, I wouldn't be shocked if you somehow get robbed of your prize, or it takes forever to be delivered.
And judging by the continuous stream of angry hate threads, I wouldn't expect a public outcry were they to not give you your prizes.
The tears are great mine included , but i would love that they didn't get the prizes , now that would bring more tears and create a black hole in eve-o.
P.S: I agree with grath you just ****ed on the volounters,the sponsors and the eve community, this level of decent trolling i'd espect from goons or maybe test but from a leet PvP alliance ohh my god no ;D
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Lord Zap
Caldari Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.06.20 19:41:00 -
[223]
All within the spirit of EVE, even if it was a little anticlimactic as a viewer. Respect and well done.
Zap
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Raneru
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2011.06.20 19:59:00 -
[224]
What is all this **** on the sponsors stuff? They sponsored it due to numbers of viewers that the tourney was likely to get and there was 20k viewers regardless of the outcome.
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Tolund
Caldari Freibeuter.
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:18:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Raneru What is all this **** on the sponsors stuff? They sponsored it due to numbers of viewers that the tourney was likely to get and there was 20k viewers regardless of the outcome.
This year. And how many next year?
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Nika Dekaia
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:33:00 -
[226]
Very good read. Thanks for that.
You're still jerks for screwing that up. Next time your charade fails in the final match: just go with it.
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Xorth Adimus
Caldari Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:37:00 -
[227]
What a waste of time..
Meh
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Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:39:00 -
[228]
That was a good read. My thanks to Duncan Tanner for posting it.
The whining in this thread and the rest of the forums seems to comes from 'the finals match was fixed and boring, wahhh'. Go read the OP posting and understand that it's not what someone does, its why they do it that really matters and enjoy AT9 in a new light.
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Fogy
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:40:00 -
[229]
Congratulations on a well deserved 1st and 2nd place! once i realized what was going on in the final i was laughing my ass off!
Well played on every level of EVE pvp! gues pve aswell with all the logistics you guys must have done.
Quote:
we had the ships, we had the guns, we had the sheeps, we had the fun.
Cheers! Signature removed for inappropriate image. Zymurgist
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D4laqueta
|
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:46:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Duncan Tanner This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it. I think we are deserving of having won both first and second in this tournament. To all those who say otherwise you are welcome to put in the effort we did this year and try to take our titles away.
I wonder if CCP showed an equally pathetic low level as you did and stripped you of all your assets, what would you say then? "This is EVE, scamming is part of it" Haha, hypocrites.
I like watching all kinds of sport / league / tournament / game finals from StarCraft to DOTA to EVE to UEFA to World Chess Championship. It's a de facto that everyone reaching any finals has put a great deal of effort in it, doh... -.-
But only in EvE i actually see people trying to defend their fake charade.
I'm not even interested in trying to take your silly title away... Like i'm not interested in trying to beat Messi and Barcelona. But i do expect him to put up a great show, and that's what he does in every game. Your sportsmanship level is below zero. Gratz on your new pixels.
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Si'ren
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:47:00 -
[231]
I think Duncan's post covered almost everything except that we went to pretty great lengths to not get DDoS'd. Each involved pilot reset modems for new IP's, and each pilot with a known static ip contacted their ISP to try and get a new, dynamic one. Also, we used 3 different Teamspeak servers, the last one being purchased/rented the day before the finals weekend.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 20:52:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Si'ren I think Duncan's post covered almost everything except that we went to pretty great lengths to not get DDoS'd. Each involved pilot reset modems for new IP's, and each pilot with a known static ip contacted their ISP to try and get a new, dynamic one. Also, we used 3 different Teamspeak servers, the last one being purchased/rented the day before the finals weekend.
Oh yeah that too lol. ---------- The HydraBreak Perspective
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D4laqueta
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:13:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Si'ren I think Duncan's post covered almost everything except that we went to pretty great lengths to not get DDoS'd. Each involved pilot reset modems for new IP's, and each pilot with a known static ip contacted their ISP to try and get a new, dynamic one. Also, we used 3 different Teamspeak servers, the last one being purchased/rented the day before the finals weekend.
As opposed to e.g. Darkside or Voltron pilots playing from dial-up connections while downloading **** i guess, eh? Not to mention you cannot "get a new" dynamic ip. You can request and set-up a static ip (if it's not used already), but dynamic setting MEANS the ip can change simply every time you connect or disconnect to the internet *facepalm*
But yea i guess you went to such great lengths for this, rented teamspeak and all that jazz while the others communicated through mobile phone texting. Mad props! *thumbsup*
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:14:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Si'ren I think Duncan's post covered almost everything except that we went to pretty great lengths to not get DDoS'd. Each involved pilot reset modems for new IP's, and each pilot with a known static ip contacted their ISP to try and get a new, dynamic one. Also, we used 3 different Teamspeak servers, the last one being purchased/rented the day before the finals weekend.
We did all this except for the 3rd TS.
After last year getting DDoS'd during the ATLAS match I think its pretty standard safety to do it at this point.
Also, I was serious, I made peace with minigin. Garmon owes me one of those things, either one will do, ITS THE LEAST HE COULD DO AFTER ALL THE WARM CONVERSATION WE HAD OVER THE GREEN POSTING DEVIL.
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Miss Jolly
The Executioners
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:17:00 -
[235]
So much tears, so much e-honor wasted and such rage from people who truly canŠt see what was accomplished in this years Alliance Tournament.. Personally I had my money on PL vs Hydra in the finals, whith a hope that PL would get hammered good..
Instead I saw two truly dedicated teams with good pilots face off in what I can only call the best trolling ever in an mmo.. It still makes me chuckle when i think of the match and how much fun me and my friends had while chatting on Ventrilo and watching it.. In hindsight i do know it wasn't meant to be a troll, but that was how i percived it and it was truly awesome :)
**** you to the whiners, this is a huge accomplishment on Hydras and Outbreaks part, and from my point of view a big middle finger to all who takes e-honor and "fairness" in any game too seriously..
Please, do the same thing next year :D
/Jolly
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vverdi
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:27:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Miss Jolly So much tears, so much e-honor wasted and such rage from people who truly canŠt see what was accomplished in this years Alliance Tournament.. Personally I had my money on PL vs Hydra in the finals, whith a hope that PL would get hammered good..
Instead I saw two truly dedicated teams with good pilots face off in what I can only call the best trolling ever in an mmo.. It still makes me chuckle when i think of the match and how much fun me and my friends had while chatting on Ventrilo and watching it.. In hindsight i do know it wasn't meant to be a troll, but that was how i percived it and it was truly awesome :)
**** you to the whiners, this is a huge accomplishment on Hydras and Outbreaks part, and from my point of view a big middle finger to all who takes e-honor and "fairness" in any game too seriously..
Please, do the same thing next year :D
/Jolly
**** you too j0, and thank god not every gaming tournament shares your idiotic views of troll-man-ship.
.!.
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Si'ren
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:29:00 -
[237]
Originally by: D4laqueta
As opposed to e.g. Darkside or Voltron pilots playing from dial-up connections while downloading **** i guess, eh? Not to mention you cannot "get a new" dynamic ip. You can request and set-up a static ip (if it's not used already), but dynamic setting MEANS the ip can change simply every time you connect or disconnect to the internet *facepalm*
Not sure if my post was hard to understand, but what I meant was.. Players who knew they had static IP's that do not change when restarting modems were asked to contact their ISP and ask them to change it.
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Icylce
Frost Palace
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:41:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Saul Reaver
Originally by: Fintroll for real though anyone who is butthurt that hydra ~cheated~ by being dastardly needs to shut the hell up
Or what?
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Miss Jolly
The Executioners
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Posted - 2011.06.20 21:59:00 -
[239]
Originally by: vverdi
**** you too j0, and thank god not every gaming tournament shares your idiotic views of troll-man-ship. .!.
And thank [insert favoured deity] that we got Eve to provide something else than fixed rules for pvp, but allows for scams, off-the-grid deals, meta-gaming and trolling..
Cry moar!
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Zabo
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Posted - 2011.06.21 00:30:00 -
[240]
Basically:
Two teams in the final but the s**t team was given the win after getting destroyed in under a minute and the actual final was 0utbreak vs Darkside (apparently).
And some people are defending it and Hydra are going all e-peen about how 'good' they are, despite getting p0wned in the Final and on these boards,amirite?
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Laladria Moonsword
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Posted - 2011.06.21 00:31:00 -
[241]
To all the Hydra and Outbreak (and others - I'm looking at you Zamone) and all the guys involved you all did a good job and performed wonderfully.
Great read Duncan and can i have your babies?
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Creamster
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.06.21 00:41:00 -
[242]
Nicely written and congrats on your triumph.
However, I'd like to go on a record with the following. We were not fed intel prior to our match against PL, we had no insider information on what setups they'd tested and considered powerful (only saw adrestia team fooling around at FDZ and read forums made available to everyone). In fact we rejected an offer from HYDRA's representative to throw our match against AAA in exchange for PL's setups and plans. I'd very much appreciate if you could reflect this detail in your article, Duncan ___________ In Petition we trust |
Lexa Hellfury
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.06.21 00:50:00 -
[243]
I like Duncan. --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Nor Tzestu
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.21 01:17:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Creamster Nicely written and congrats on your triumph.
However, I'd like to go on a record with the following. We were not fed intel prior to our match against PL, we had no insider information on what setups they'd tested and considered powerful (only saw adrestia team fooling around at FDZ and read forums made available to everyone). In fact we rejected an offer from HYDRA's representative to throw our match against AAA in exchange for PL's setups and plans. I'd very much appreciate if you could reflect this detail in your article, Duncan
Good on you guys. I was really pulling for you guys. Awesome matches all weekend from you guys. Sure I am biased towards your fits..Amarr Victor!!..but still. Outstanding match against Outbreak in what turns out was the real final. Hope your back next year kicking ass and taking names without playing "meta" and "wwf" fail games.
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Balcor Mirage
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Posted - 2011.06.21 04:53:00 -
[245]
I have read through most of the posts concerning the outcome of the tournament. Ya sure you can argue that Outbreak and Hydra played within the rules set out by CCP. I'm sure both teams now realize at least a portion of the damage they have done to the community, the tournament, the sponsors... and themselves. Hydra wins.. yay? There will always be an asterisk associated with that achievement. That in itself is a stigma that all the members of both teams will have to deal with... and that is very unfortunate given the time they devoted to excellence. Excellence lost.
What I don't see is a response from CCP on how they intend to assure something like this doesn't happen again. As you know, there are many other game tournaments out there on the world stage. It's obvious that CCP is not ready to make that step until they can answer the public stigma of a fixed prize fight.
As I was one of the Eve community who was rooting for a group to come along and really make this tournament a brawl, I leave you with this quote and the connotations therein...
"Say it ain't so, Joe"
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Minigin
YOU JUST ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.21 05:01:00 -
[246]
i like duncan. .
color poastar.
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D
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Xikorita
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.21 05:18:00 -
[247]
This was an awesome read. More material for my non-eve friends to see how serious this internet spaceships game is.
I find all the butthurt amazing.
"How dare you guys mess up with what I expect the finals to be?"
I explained in 30 sec of the live action to my roomate that doesn't play eve and he was laughing his ass off.
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Poetic Stanziel
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.21 06:09:00 -
[248]
You forgot to add the tl;dr, Duncan.
tl;dr: We wanted to give you all a much more exciting FIXED match than we delivered. We are sorry for not faking our fake match with finesse.
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.21 06:32:00 -
[249]
i like duncan ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
Azishkra'elhykai Mizamel
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.21 06:36:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Poetic Stanziel You forgot to add the tl;dr, Duncan.
tl;dr: We wanted to give you all a much more exciting FIXED match than we delivered. We are sorry for not faking our fake match with finesse.
TL;DR - Hydra/Outbreak victory is due to the hard work of many. All plans and options were fool-proofed and implemented, and only one mistake in the finals occurred.
_____________________________ Yes, it's a long name. |
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Lee ChanKa
WEPRA CORP
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Posted - 2011.06.21 10:22:00 -
[251]
gj m8s rly..you don hell job there...
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Duncan Tanner
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.21 13:03:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Creamster Nicely written and congrats on your triumph.
However, I'd like to go on a record with the following. We were not fed intel prior to our match against PL, we had no insider information on what setups they'd tested and considered powerful (only saw adrestia team fooling around at FDZ and read forums made available to everyone). In fact we rejected an offer from HYDRA's representative to throw our match against AAA in exchange for PL's setups and plans. I'd very much appreciate if you could reflect this detail in your article, Duncan
When Razor initially rejected our mutually beneficial offer we were prepared to intentionally lose the Hydra vs PL match because it would mean 0utbreak would have no choice but to finish first. Our goal was to end up on opposite sides of the bracket yes, but it was also to force PL to go through either Hydra or 0utbreak to get to the final match. Since Darkside was the only other strong team we offered them intel in exchange for positioning themselves to fight PL in the knockout. We wanted PL knocked out.
Darkside did not agree to the offer of intel for positioning themselves to fight PL so we prepared to lose to PL and fight Darkside ourselves. Fortunately for us Razor reconsidered and this allowed us to take the PL match seriously. We beat PL and Darkside had to fight them anyway which was the best possible outcome for us.
We didn't give Darkside any intel on PL at all. We considered it, but we prefered that PL beat Darkside because we were more comfortable fighting a known opponent and we wanted to be the ones to knock out PL.
In a perfect world it isn't just the final that would've gone differently. Before the split between 0utbreak and Hydra we suggested that 0utbreak name their alliance BRUCE RELOADED instead of Outbreakdot. With the brackets setup the way they were Hydra would finish first and BRUCE RELOADED would finish second in their groups. PL would beat Darkside and continue through the bracket to fight BRUCE RELOADED. BRUCE RELOADED would beat PL and the final would be HYDRA RELOADED vs BRUCE RELOADED. Unfortunately 0utbreak chickened out and called their alliance something boring and Darkside beat PL.
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Greedr
Nekogami Band JIHADASQUAD
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Posted - 2011.06.21 14:22:00 -
[253]
I want to thank you for posting this massive wall of text. :D Didn't know what to do 'till eve gets back online, than i saw this. After reading i want to congratulate on winning this tournament, you did deserve it. But also i want to flame you for that last match, next time bring moar faction/pirate pew pews and make um go bo00m! :D Btw, i was losing all my bets on this tournament, and than i guessed last match correctly, tho i cursed a lot when i saw what was on field =)
o7
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Jos Wijnants
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.21 14:28:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Greedr tho i cursed a lot when i saw what was on field =)
o7
i wonder why would you curse Ah i see ,you placed a bet on a match ,expecting to see a match but then you saw what they brought to this match and yelled ,wtf i am gonna loose big time good luck they rigged the match ,congratz on that one ,sir
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:41:00 -
[255]
What a load of ego-maniacal spoon-fed crockery.
"Meta-gaming" - The last fight wasn't meta-gamed, it was ****ed.
All that had to happen was the Vindicator get destroyed. And noone would know the better. You were selfish and incompetent, and the rest of what you did was for nothing.
Noone cares that you put a ton of effort because you blew the final - that's all anyone will remember. The fact you need to write 5 posts of explanation to make up for 1 act is pretty damn obvious as to how much **** you need to spew to make up for it.
If you had won straight up? Guess what... you might have not actually sounded like a douche saying all that. But now you do, and that's your fault.
You are right, this is EVE - and you failed at it. ____________________________________________________
Bastet :: Captain |
Calladad
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Posted - 2011.06.21 17:47:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 20/06/2011 18:27:10
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Grath Telkin
I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.
Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums.
Can we link to posts from people who were at the alliance tournament after the camera turned off? :)
Ed: And TBH if you think CCP won't be mad about a finals like that, then you're ****ing delusional. CCP spent a lot of RL $$$ throwing a bash like that, and even managed to score external sponsorship and RL prizes. The final was a ****up of MASSIVE proportion, and CCP has every right to be ****ed about it.
You know, I cant help thinking about the first thing being said in the "Eve: A future vision" video.
"Honor is not about making the right choices, its about dealing with the consequences".. I mean, could the outcome of the final match have been better, sure, but CCP basically promotes metagaming and screwing people over as the most important thing in the game. You can do it as long as you deal with the consequences. The fact that they are ****ed off (of record) because some people did just that is just plain sad (if what you say is true).
and tbh, I think people can do without the annoying commercials next year and rather lame prizes. A friend of mine was watching a League of legends tournament last weekend with 100000$ game price (Dreamhack I think) so the whole sponsor thing, a computer and a graphic card, is not something to worry too much about. They could prolly afford to hand out stuff like that without sponsors.
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Phinger
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Posted - 2011.06.21 18:59:00 -
[257]
They fought and trained and positioned themselves to end up fighting each other ....but they beat the best to get themselves in the final.....both teams were champs.
What they should have done at this stage is Admit they were just two groups of the same allaince. They had already won...they just did it with two teams beating the two next best allainces.
THen gone in the fight and actually duked it out ...still got the kudos and put up a good fight.....and not sweat the reward.
If we had seen a brilliant fight instead of the .....surrender crap....It would have been fine. You had beat all the actual allaince members who competed fair and square. Just the last fight was a sort of joke not a fight. And the release of the info afterwards will leave a sour message for everyone. Your training your preparation and your combat are above par....but politically you shot yourself in the foot.
Thanks for the write up though....I aint so angry now......just feel the whole thing was a bit of a letdown at the end.
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Kaarina Inkeri
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Posted - 2011.06.21 19:19:00 -
[258]
Pretty much sums it up.
Everything was fine until you decided to fix the last match. Why? if you were both one team and won first and second...why did you fix the fight? It's not like you brought your flagships or anything expensive (not like you weren't about to get 100 free unique ships anyway) Would it have killed you to let us see one of the ships you won last year in action?
It may not have mattered to you, but it did matter to others. You knew people were getting prizes based on correctly predicting the winner of matches, you knew people were betting on the matches. Everything was fine until that point.
Even all the people complaining about meta-gaming don't get it. This is part of EVE and part of the tournament the same way it is in some other sports, like Speed Skating (specifically Short Track) or even horse racing when a trainer enters two horses in the same race. It is a strategy like others and there is nothing wrong with it....until the winner stops and lets another win.
You basically used the final to make us watch you jerk off. Thanks for that.
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Hakkar Desh Lupercal
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Posted - 2011.06.21 19:57:00 -
[259]
Saying sorry here makes you even more sad. Feck off, you ruined the fun and excitement of watching the so called best of the best. This tournament lost all value.
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Tisiphone Erinyesfuries
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Posted - 2011.06.21 20:08:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Hakkar Desh Lupercal Saying sorry here makes you even more sad. Feck off, you ruined the fun and excitement of watching the so called best of the best. This tournament lost all value.
I AGREE 100%. The Final was nber crap. Worst of all they didnt show a true spirit of competition or the true spirit of the game.
As far as I'm concerned it was a rigged final. Shame on YOU!
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Bryan Havoc
Project Nemesis WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.21 20:51:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Bryan Havoc on 21/06/2011 20:52:31 Nice read Duncan. Well done. The final showcased the true spirit of Eve. Anyone that says otherwise is playing the wrong game.
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TG Milenko
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Posted - 2011.06.21 21:36:00 -
[262]
Just wanna congratulate on a massive achievement. I am just a mission running nube but I can appriciate when players get the most out of EVE.
Getting both teams in the final was the victory, the result of the final....who cares...you allready won the game you were playing.
Cheers for sandboxes. (Making peoble angry since september 24, 1997)
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Lazerus Bulder
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Posted - 2011.06.21 21:44:00 -
[263]
wow almost 261 post about how great you are.
LOL
No matter how you all packet it, or how many of your buddies/alts you get to post in here, you did not win a PvP tournament in my book. You won the scamming "meta-game" show you put on, no doubt about that. You are by far the best at that. But you took the PvP out of the AT... Good work Did you enjoy great celebration, the Live Stream people gave you when the final was over.
You did Fans of AT a disservice. Why should CCP do another?
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Silicon Sailor
Northgate
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Posted - 2011.06.21 21:49:00 -
[264]
Edited by: Silicon Sailor on 21/06/2011 21:49:58 At least they made it LOOK sorta good...
Heck, they COULD have each brought 1 frigate and battled with Civilian Gatling guns......
Heck, 2 teams, same Alliance... the Event was over before the last match STARTED... If CCP allows 2+ teams from the same Alliance to participate, they have to allow the possibility that it'll bite them in the dark shiny spot
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Humphrey Goff
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:01:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Lazerus Bulder wow almost 261 post about how great you are.
LOL
No matter how you all packet it, or how many of your buddies/alts you get to post in here, you did not win a PvP tournament in my book. You won the scamming "meta-game" show you put on, no doubt about that. You are by far the best at that. But you took the PvP out of the AT... Good work Did you enjoy great celebration, the Live Stream people gave you when the final was over.
You did Fans of AT a disservice. Why should CCP do another?
Stop trolling Garmon.
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Azishkra'elhykai Mizamel
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.22 00:13:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Humphrey Goff Stop trolling Garmon.
Almost choked on my coffee.
Sorry, what? Somebody can troll Garmon?
_____________________________ Yes, it's a long name. |
Draekas Darkwater
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Posted - 2011.06.22 00:33:00 -
[267]
Great read and congrats on your wins.
**** final though. Least ya could have done is brought out the exact same setup for both teams and had a true honest to god fight, where really and truly the best pilots/FCing would win. If you wanted to swap prizes or something later after the fact, you could have done so. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.06.22 00:50:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I don't think anyone can legitimately complain about you taking the top two spots. No, what we can legitimately complain about is that you failed to entertain people in such an epic way in the final match of the alliance tournament. While I'm a bit aggravated that 0utbreak didn't take it in the end (ooooh how I wanted such an old name to win!), I think the people you should be apologizing to is CCP. They spent a lot of RL $$$ and effort to put this thing on, only to have it kinda **** on in the very end.
Best of luck entertaining us next time.
-Liang
It doesn't suit you to sound so butthurt Liang.
You don't have to look much further than the OP's writeup, or hell think for two seconds, and you'll realise alot of things. First off that the metagaming been part of the AT for longer than people want to believe (ignorance). Second they struggle to accept there IS A- and B-teams (ignorance). Thirdly they believe people win the AT with honour (ignorance).
Fourth, this is excellent marketing for EVE and the sandbox, the AT actually resembles the "real game" and isn't just some ****ed up arena sport. A bit similar to how the writeup about one of Istvaan's heists actually brought alot of people to this game. And how I personally started EVE many many years ago, after reading on mmorpg.com about how this game actually expects people to be douchebags..
I could go on but it'd make me look as if I'm whining about whiners, so I'll just shut up. But tbh; Hydra and 0utbreak - grats on your accomplishment, this AT was bloody damn boring up until the Darkside-match, and then the final. Thanks for the show guys.
Also, another +lurve for Duncan, and some extra <3 to Nexus and Bai, missed your guys posts. -
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canadon
Minmatar Otela Co
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Posted - 2011.06.22 01:46:00 -
[269]
I'd have to say, hats off to you guys for running this show the way you did. I can understand that people are upset at not getting the show they wanted. Everyone wants to see a grueling fight to the last ship and no one got that this year. You gave them something else. I know I wanted that "great battle of skill and determination". that show of true leadership out of and FC and the true... professionalism?... from a team. You didn't give us that. You did show us something and you quite clearly stated your slight remorse for how it turned out. Apology accepted sir. I am impressed. not by what you didn't give me but what I got instead.... People should relax. Yes I agree that CCP will be a bit miffed by this, they will get over it. so will everyone else and yes there will be an asterisk by your win and at the bottom of the page it will simply state that you made not just the other teams your ***** but you made the entire tournament get down on it's knees and open wide with a whimper and a smile. good job guys; just make it look better next yeah k? ;-)
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.06.22 01:54:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 20/06/2011 18:27:10
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Grath Telkin
I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.
Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums.
Can we link to posts from people who were at the alliance tournament after the camera turned off? :)
Ed: And TBH if you think CCP won't be mad about a finals like that, then you're ****ing delusional. CCP spent a lot of RL $$$ throwing a bash like that, and even managed to score external sponsorship and RL prizes. The final was a ****up of MASSIVE proportion, and CCP has every right to be ****ed about it.
The way CCP ****ed up the AT they don't deserve jack ****.
* First they allowed meta-gaming for years, so starting to complain about it now is stupid. * Second they allowed B-teams, selling of AT-slots etc for years, so to complain about it now is stupid. * Thirdly everyone know (ok fine, they obviously don't know, but checking forums for five minutes would be sufficient) who Hydra and Garmon are, and moreso, how they play this game. * Fourth, CCP has ****ed up over the playerbase for real this AT. If you cared about reading AT forums last few weeks there's been a metric ****ton of posts about how this is "the worst AT ever". And alot of people have been quite upset about how CCP ignores players wishes, by not even streaming qualifiers, and even removing old AT's from youtube. * Fifth, CCP employees responses to concern on these forums have been "we don't care what you think" "people always whine" and "we know better than you" (that's responses to player questions of why CCP's quality demands is more important than player wishes to see lower-qual streams).
It's blatantly obvious that CCP care more about making the AT an arena sport (sponsors and quality issues reflecting this), than to make the AT actually reflect EVE as a game. Ironicly, CCP got bitten in the ass and got a finally that actually does reflect the reality of this game, instead. So instead of "losing" potential customers who believe EVE has fair fights and arena-like environment, they will win player who see the meta-gaming, dog-eats-dog sandbox game for what it is? If anything, CCP was selling a lie, and this years final has just exposed that.
And to believe that PL or any other entity with the same capability and resources would not have done the same, would be ignorant and guesstimations at best. They don't have Garmon tho, so chances are they wouldn't troll the final. -
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Victoria Stecker
Amarr Heathen Legion Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.06.22 04:26:00 -
[271]
I guess there are a couple issues here. To start off, I really respect the amount of time and effort that went into this (both the victory and the jade-esque wall of text). I have no problem with either hydra or outbreak taking home the championship, although the ****up in the final was pretty goddam epic. All that practice and you didn't bother to prepare for that bit?
Anyhow, the bigger issue I have is that, EVE's encouragement of metagaming aside, it still looks like cheating. No disrespect meant to Outbreak, but it basically looks like Hydra fielded two tournament teams in order to double their already good chances of winning. Note that most alliances are only allowed to field one team.
Again, awesome effort, you guys earned the victory - but next time, don't **** up so bad, and make it look a little less like hydra vs hydra, ok? If we'd been allowed to field two teams, maybe we wouldn't have sucked quite so bad. - In the embrace of Hell, I am no longer afraid, for with His damned embrace, I have become that which I once most feared: Death. |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.22 05:46:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Victoria Stecker I guess there are a couple issues here. To start off, I really respect the amount of time and effort that went into this (both the victory and the jade-esque wall of text). I have no problem with either hydra or outbreak taking home the championship, although the ****up in the final was pretty goddam epic. All that practice and you didn't bother to prepare for that bit?
Anyhow, the bigger issue I have is that, EVE's encouragement of metagaming aside, it still looks like cheating. No disrespect meant to Outbreak, but it basically looks like Hydra fielded two tournament teams in order to double their already good chances of winning. Note that most alliances are only allowed to field one team.
Again, awesome effort, you guys earned the victory - but next time, don't **** up so bad, and make it look a little less like hydra vs hydra, ok? If we'd been allowed to field two teams, maybe we wouldn't have sucked quite so bad.
Well you could have if you actually had enough skilled pilots to form two teams. Like us, we barely have enough for one team, much less two and we got ****ed. UK has quite a lot of pilots though. But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Lord Molly
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Posted - 2011.06.22 09:37:00 -
[273]
Duncan, I love you.
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Mograph
Caldari Conspiracy Theorists M-A-L-E-V-O-L-E-N-C-E
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Posted - 2011.06.22 11:33:00 -
[274]
I like the tournament final it was funny and shadoo (Peter Griffin) looked angry.
The people who might be angry are the guys who put isk on the line in betting on the winners, I assume this happens, but i didnt make any bets. Fixing the matches is going to **** off the Bookies and the players that put down isk.
As meta gaming / scmas / back room deals are allowed in eve then there what Hydara and Outbreak did was totally legit, but as this Tournament is a special case I think CCP needs to try and do something to stop match fixing in the future.
The AT is a sporting event, not a fight for land or sov or anything else. and as such it should be as fair as possible. Enforcing this fairness however is a different matter. Only way I can see is to ban people found to be match fixing from future events. I doubt it will ever happen though and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing. |
Pastachick
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Posted - 2011.06.22 16:58:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Pastachick on 22/06/2011 16:58:18 Awesome read. All the hard work you put in setting everything up gives you the right to get to the top in my opinion and win 2125B Isk.
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Inaetia
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Posted - 2011.06.22 17:56:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Kumq uat But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit.
Hydrabreak wins, so obv rules favor big alliances ahahahahaha rofl
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Electra GaafCramo
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Posted - 2011.06.22 18:05:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Mograph I like the tournament final it was funny and shadoo (Peter Griffin) looked angry.
The people who might be angry are the guys who put isk on the line in betting on the winners, I assume this happens, but i didnt make any bets. Fixing the matches is going to **** off the Bookies and the players that put down isk.
As meta gaming / scmas / back room deals are allowed in eve then there what Hydara and Outbreak did was totally legit, but as this Tournament is a special case I think CCP needs to try and do something to stop match fixing in the future.
The AT is a sporting event, not a fight for land or sov or anything else. and as such it should be as fair as possible. Enforcing this fairness however is a different matter. Only way I can see is to ban people found to be match fixing from future events. I doubt it will ever happen though
I am a bit mad. I did not bet nor have any other kind of affiliation with AT9. I am 100% spectator, and felt ****ed upon by the finalists. It is really that simple, don't wrap your head too much to create illussions.
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Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.22 18:08:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Inaetia
Originally by: Kumq uat But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit.
Hydrabreak wins, so obv rules favor big alliances ahahahahaha rofl
I understand you are a mental midget and all but try to keep up with me here. I know it is a strain on your limited intellect but I bet you can do it for at least a few seconds.
What I said really had nothing to do with HydraBreak. It more applies to next year. Now that a couple of enterprising alliances have successfully done multiple teams you will see a massive wave of big alliances for AT 10 doing 2,3, maybe even 4 teams at once. They can afford alliance fees, entry fees, and have the depth of pilots to make it happen. Think about what both TEST and Goons will do with this next year. Other alliances. Yeah, that is what I thought. We got a year to think about this, so what can we do to limit this kind of shenanigans for the 10th anniversary tournament. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.22 18:51:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Raimo on 22/06/2011 18:53:47
Originally by: Kumq uat
Originally by: Inaetia
Originally by: Kumq uat But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit.
Hydrabreak wins, so obv rules favor big alliances ahahahahaha rofl
I understand you are a mental midget and all but try to keep up with me here. I know it is a strain on your limited intellect but I bet you can do it for at least a few seconds.
What I said really had nothing to do with HydraBreak. It more applies to next year. Now that a couple of enterprising alliances have successfully done multiple teams you will see a massive wave of big alliances for AT 10 doing 2,3, maybe even 4 teams at once. They can afford alliance fees, entry fees, and have the depth of pilots to make it happen. Think about what both TEST and Goons will do with this next year. Other alliances. Yeah, that is what I thought. We got a year to think about this, so what can we do to limit this kind of shenanigans for the 10th anniversary tournament.
Actually, PL and Darkside are probably the only "bigger" alliances who could do it (again) if they wanted to. Most other alliances really don't have the tacticians or pilots for even one competent team on the "alliance" tournament (which would be more aptly named "small gang arena tournament" or somesuch. Most alliances with 1000+ pilots simply don't have many pilots who can execute such combat, or the EFT warriors/conceptualizers. Definitely not the competent small gang FCs. (Such people tend to gravitate towards *not* joining blob alliances ;) )
Okay, Razor did do pretty well this year, I'll grant you that (but it wouldn't have been possible if we didn't facilitate their entering the finals day)
BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...
Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Tech two
UK1 Zero
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Posted - 2011.06.22 22:12:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Raimo
BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...
And this is just the very problem. Such lack of smaller gang PVP and solo action, because it's too easy to blob up.
Outbreak has like, what 60 people? Fair few of them must be alts or inactive. Yet they can field a team which gets to the final. They specialise in working together in small units, even taking on bigger blobs. Hydra the same, Darkside too.
Low sec and 0.0 need opening up more somehow. But some thought needs to go into this from CCP.
Instead we get years of work so we can log in and look at ourselves slowly walk around a room. A feature 80% of us have already disabled.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:29:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Tech two
Originally by: Raimo
BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...
And this is just the very problem. Such lack of smaller gang PVP and solo action, because it's too easy to blob up.
Outbreak has like, what 60 people? Fair few of them must be alts or inactive. Yet they can field a team which gets to the final. They specialise in working together in small units, even taking on bigger blobs. Hydra the same, Darkside too.
Low sec and 0.0 need opening up more somehow. But some thought needs to go into this from CCP.
Instead we get years of work so we can log in and look at ourselves slowly walk around a room. A feature 80% of us have already disabled.
+1 -
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Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:46:00 -
[282]
Since when have Goons or Test cared about doing things well Raimo? They can basicaly use their guys who actually do that stuff and just dictate what the other teams will do. Chances are they will fail when in combat but the point is these big alliances with multiple teams will squeeze out smaller alliances who may deserve to play. I am of course thinking of Dystopia's welfare in all of this as we do not have the numbers to do but one team in the year and barely those numbers at that but we are proven. As much as I want to miss yet another ****ing tournament after skill training and theory crafting all year because Goons decide to get in they will field 5 teams. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
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Posted - 2011.06.23 01:10:00 -
[283]
Excellent read Duncan. I can admit to a tad bit of butt-hurtedness when the tourney finals are done as they were in this case. The tournaments are sort of a sport. And in the end the two best teams face off for soul champions of the world. The same as in American football, hockey, etc...
Having taken the time to write all that you did when you didn't have to says more about you and your alliance than anything else imho. I see apologies, quotes of feeling bad, etc... So to you sir, and your champion alliance, I tip my hat. I have laways had a respect for Hydra and Genos because of the reputation of many of your pilots, past and present. This topic post by you only furthers that respect.
This is a metric **** ton of work required to pull this off. Congratulations to all of you. HYDRA PRVIL!!!!!0ne1
~Harri out
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Nath Blazek
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Posted - 2011.06.23 01:46:00 -
[284]
The bs from this final and the incarna garbage and overpriced NEX shop does not make up for cool turrets. Goodbye eve. Glad I didn't sink 8 years into this piece of trash and representation of the worst of society.
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Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.23 01:50:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Nath Blazek The bs from this final and the incarna garbage and overpriced NEX shop does not make up for cool turrets. Goodbye eve. Glad I didn't sink 8 years into this piece of trash and representation of the worst of society.
Hey bro. I think you made a wrong turn and came into the AT forum instead of general to get on the usual post patch I quit train. --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Quantumality
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Posted - 2011.06.23 03:36:00 -
[286]
I think it all comes down to wow...grats Outbreak and Hydra on your win.
Very nice read Duncan, thanks for posting. Also props for all the effort you guys put in to providing awesome fights up to the final. I don't have the ISK to have all those fits, or the dedication to do that much training, and it is cool to see people who do reap the rewards of their time and effort. From your account at least Darkside and PL also put in large amounts of training, and that showed clearly in the tourney as well.
I always love how all the armchair warriors (me included) can say what they would have done differently in the final match (ok, if it were me I would have wiped all but Laedy out then SD'd 0utbreak's gang, but who cares). I haven't seen anyone here realize what most likely happened AT THE TIME when people had to make decisions. Commentators and everyone else are always talking about how the wrong move by a pilot or the wrong decision by a FC can cause a loss.
I can only imagine what was going on the TS3 server during the match when you realized 0utbreak was owning Hydra when it was already agreed Hydra would win the match. I mean seriously, the Hydra setup won in practice, so much so it had to be toned down and the rush had to be extra tanked. You were trying to give the good fight, and no one noticed soon enough that things were going in the wrong direction too fast. It went farther and left you with very few options for a clean finish that still left Hydra with the field. I'm sure all you guys have thought of at least a hundred different ways you could have ended that match better - now that you have actually had time to think about it because it isn't the heat of battle.
Props for being in the position where you didn't have time to think of the best way to finish things because you were fighting a match that both was the envy of any other alliance being able to have (owning both teams in the final) and something CCP will probably work hard towards making sure it can't ever happen again (and likely to the detriment of potential tournament entrants in the future).
Enjoy the prizes, and just hide out on Sisi for a week or so till this blows over.
CCP: thanks for all the work broadcasting this in HD and having some awesome commentators flown in for the matches. There were some truly great fights this tournament. Please keep doing tournaments, but hopefully without swinging the new rules bat harder than necessary. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.23 05:34:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Kumq uat Since when have Goons or Test cared about doing things well Raimo? They can basicaly use their guys who actually do that stuff and just dictate what the other teams will do. Chances are they will fail when in combat but the point is these big alliances with multiple teams will squeeze out smaller alliances who may deserve to play. I am of course thinking of Dystopia's welfare in all of this as we do not have the numbers to do but one team in the year and barely those numbers at that but we are proven. As much as I want to miss yet another ****ing tournament after skill training and theory crafting all year because Goons decide to get in they will field 5 teams.
I bolded the bit that matters, being bad at the game they can not gain any advantage with numbers really. Personally I would be very surprised to have a team that is not very, very confident in their AT abilities trying to field several teams. Then again the game is full of idiots so I could be wrong too :D
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Tech two
Originally by: Raimo
BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...
And this is just the very problem. Such lack of smaller gang PVP and solo action, because it's too easy to blob up.
Outbreak has like, what 60 people? Fair few of them must be alts or inactive. Yet they can field a team which gets to the final. They specialise in working together in small units, even taking on bigger blobs. Hydra the same, Darkside too.
Low sec and 0.0 need opening up more somehow. But some thought needs to go into this from CCP.
Instead we get years of work so we can log in and look at ourselves slowly walk around a room. A feature 80% of us have already disabled.
+1
Yeah, this.
And thanks Harrigan and Quantum (who is one of the few who seems to "get" what happened during the final tbh)
Originally by: Quantumality
Enjoy the prizes, and just hide out in Tanks/HON (small gang yo) until next AT.
FYP Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.23 07:05:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Raimo
the game is full of idiots
I left the part that is important. The point is these alliances will try and will take spots from more deserving teams.
--------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
ohshitohshitohshit
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Posted - 2011.06.23 14:19:00 -
[289]
Edited by: oh****oh****oh**** on 23/06/2011 14:19:25
Originally by: Raimo
Personally I would be very surprised to have a team that is not very, very confident in their AT abilities trying to field several teams. Then again the game is full of idiots so I could be wrong too :D
RvB :D
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gorak cz
Thundercats B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.23 15:17:00 -
[290]
Great story and showup, big props to you guys.
and to all but hurt whiners : ahahahahahahahahahahah *gasp for air* hahahahahahahaha Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator |
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Tech two
UK1 Zero
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Posted - 2011.06.23 17:35:00 -
[291]
Originally by: oh****oh****oh**** Edited by: oh****oh****oh**** on 23/06/2011 14:19:25
Originally by: Raimo
Personally I would be very surprised to have a team that is not very, very confident in their AT abilities trying to field several teams. Then again the game is full of idiots so I could be wrong too :D
RvB :D
Good point!
They market themselves as being 1 corp, just split in 2 to fight each other.
They trained together.
No-one went nuts that they were both allowed in. And they are more connected than Hydra/Outbreak.
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Lowa
Gallente North Star Networks The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2011.06.23 20:37:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Victoria Stecker ...but it basically looks like Hydra fielded two tournament teams in order to double their already good chances of winning. Note that most alliances are only allowed to field one team.
I hope all realize that OB/Hydra wasnt the only ones fielding two teams. And it has been done before. Not as explicit as this but the under-the-table dealings and rigging have been a huge part of the AT's since day 1. Its just the illusion that got broken, welcome to EVE - Put up or shut up - its that simple.
Once more, best AT in a long time (across all aspects), its just a question if you have been around and involved enough to appreciate the "small" details.
And I also dont think people realize, from an in-game perspective, how much events such as these will influence the path of peoples motivation for years to come; some will b*** about it - others will silently plan their (perhaps personal) revenge!
And nothing - nothing - in EVE is as sweet as revenge!
/Lowa
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Ghostwind
Gallente Dead Skin Mask
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Posted - 2011.06.24 05:57:00 -
[293]
Yeah, I would also like to see more temp alliances originating from one alliance, and/or show signs of good faith versus old friends. Maybe we can be so lucky to have a tournament where we will see teams folding in each match. Now, that would be some tournament and a reflection of true Eve-online. Maybe we will see some good scripts in the future to provide the perfect entertainment.
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Draycen Trell
Amarr 1st Praetorianorum Fabri
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Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 -
[294]
Very interesting post Duncan. There is not much in EVE that is clean and simple, most of it is underhand, dirty and downright scuzzy, and thats just fine. You guys sure put a lot of work in and for that you earnt you isk.
Both finalists (and all the other contestants) delighted thousands of people with your matches upto the final. Sadly, no matter how many of your members and fansboys/girls come out to defend your actions, all your hard work undone in a few minutes. You have disapointed thousands of people in your actions.
I am sure there are people who think what you did was great, I am sure your Alliance is full of them, but I know there are many that will be ashamed. ISK can be begged, borrowed or stolen, reputation is earned. You have gained a lot of ISK and lost a lot of reputation for yourselves, EVE AT and CCP.
Shame.
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Taloic
Caldari Black Watch Regiment
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Posted - 2011.06.24 19:06:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Nath Blazek The bs from this final and the incarna garbage and overpriced NEX shop does not make up for cool turrets. Goodbye eve. Glad I didn't sink 8 years into this piece of trash and representation of the worst of society.
Can I has you stuff??
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Platypus King
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Posted - 2011.06.26 04:57:00 -
[296]
you know, I too like Duncan
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Joe Space
Originally by: Brahan Seer I thought it was bloody brilliant. Good drama for the whole tournament and a good write up to explain how it all came together.
Seriously I dont know why people are ****ing and moaning about it. It was great entertainment.
Well done guys
i think a lot of people feel trolled by hydra. but as duncan explains very well, hydra took this tournament very seriously and competed hard. hydra competed so hard that both their teams made it to the final, but that's really everybody else's fault isn't it? yes, it is.
Quoted for truth.
I don't see why people are so worked up about this. Hydra put in a lot of work to win this and while metagaming had a part, it's nowhere near as big as some people make it out to be.
But i guess most of those who are complaining about this have bet on PL (or one of their b-teams) to win.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Soul Redemption
Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.27 23:07:00 -
[298]
in the end all the work it took for hydra and outbreak to win this is AMAZING and tbh well deserves them winning and doing wtf we want to do in the final so screw you guys im going home!
and yar i watched the matchs on youtube and i think it was awsome good AT9 stop crying
Does this Ion supercharging Death Beam makes me look FAT?! *Zaaappp*
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Lothar Krellum
Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.09.03 11:19:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Soul Redemption in the end all the work it took for hydra and outbreak to win this is AMAZING and tbh well deserves them winning and doing wtf we want to do in the final so screw you guys im going home!
and yar i watched the matchs on youtube and i think it was awsome good AT9 stop crying
lol, It would of been easier if you just wrote "bump"
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