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Finding it hard to understand why people are upset over aur for items

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Rylie Gayle	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:51:00 - [1] How is it any different than it is now? Atm, or even before the patch, I could goto shattered crystal, buy 60day GTC for 30$, sell it or convert to plex and get isk from it. Completely legal and fine by todays standards. People are going bat **** crazy over the idea of using Aurum for items / ships. All it is doing new is introducing a new smaller form of currency. Ie: 1000$ = 1 New Dollar. ( non real conversion but just an example ) Even if they do offer 'special' items in the aurum store that have more / better bonuses. So what? Buy some Plex with ISK, convert the Plex to Aurum, buy it. You don't have to use RL money anywhere in that equation. Its no different than the current situation. Want a normal T1 raven? Buy a GTC, convert to ISK, buy the raven. The only side effect I see is that Plex prices could raise dramatically, thereby making more people want to buy GTCs to convert to plex for the sake of aurum instead of actual game time. And another thing, if they make the specialized ships ridiculously expensive, ie 5x the cost of a monocle, i highly doubt you'll even be see'ing anyone in them in real combat or any other situation due to the fact that it'll be about a 6-7b ship. Think tournament reward ships. Rarely do you see them flown. Now Aurum for SP, I think thats a major drawback because its kind of a kick in the face to all the players who've invested 8+ years in the game. I honestly wouldn't mind a new server specifically for this, even if they have to cut back from TQ. I'm willin to bet a lot of people would migrate just for the opportunity to start over in a new world, but then you run into problems like you did in china having to throttle development and release of items due to in-balances. Hell I say wipe the entire TQ server and let us go back to the stone age.
Demon Azrakel Gallente Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:52:00 - [2] NO
Alpine 69 Rubbish Superheroes	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:54:00 - [3] -
Llambda Space Llama Industries	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:55:00 - [4] Edited by: Llambda on 25/06/2011 15:56:25 It's baffling that so many people are so entirely ignorant to how the present money supply and plex system works. It's completely different because the ISK you're getting from plex is coming from some other player who acquired that ISK through existing gameplay mechanics. By contrast, AUR is generated out of thin air when you turn a plex in. Regardless of how you, personally, acquired the plex that went into the aurum, real money was directly spent to bring that aurum into existence. The same cannot be said of ISK, the only faucets for which exist in the context of gameplay mechanics (missions, ratting, etc.). You're comparing a currency faucet to a mere exchange of goods. This also means that, for anything sold for AUR, it's possible to completely bypass the Eve ingame economy. This is not true for plex->isk transactions.
Sujanra Acoma Minmatar Shadow Kitty Legion Rura-Penthe	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:55:00 - [5] The concern is that you'll be able to buy things like ships with AUR, and those ships will be created out of thin air instead of having been mined out of rocks and manufactured into a ship by players. There's also worry (caused by leaked documents) that CCP is planning on selling things that will give players ingame competitive advantages for AUR. The last concern is the pricing of the vanity items, which is pretty ludicrous.
Zanetia Gallente The Interstellar Lunatic Asylum	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:57:00 - [6] Jesus wept, this again Once more for those with the IQ of a ******ed goldfish... Items bought from the NEX store just magically appear in the game, completely bypassing the player economy. If you buy a GTC or PLEX and convert it to ISK to buy a ship off the market, someone had to mine the minerals, someone had to research the BP, someone had to build the ship and sell it. It didn't just magically appear out of nowhere. The NEX store selling items would screw over the idustrialists. As for 'use ISK to buy PLEX to convert to AUR so you won't be spending real money' argument. Yes, you will be spending real money. Just someone elses. Same as you use someone elses real money to pay your sub if you but a PLEX with ISK. Regardless of which currency is used, EVE becomes a game of buying victory whether it's with PLEX or $$$ rather than earning it with skills.
Discrodia Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.25 15:59:00 - [7] Okay, here's how PLEX works: You buy the plex. You sell the plex to someone else. You get ISK, they get gametime. You use the ISK to buy a Machariel. People who benefit: CCP: Gets money. PLEX Buyer: Gets gametime. PLEX Seller: Gets ISK which is used to buy a Machariel. Machariel Seller: Gets ISK. Now here is how Aurum items work. You buy the plex. It gets turned into Aurum. You get a magic instant Machariel. Here's who benefits: CCP: Gets money. PLEX User: Gets Machariel. Now, the difference is that the former runs through the current ingame economy, benefiting several other people. In the latter scenario, only CCP and the PLEX user benefit. Makes sense? Originally by: anonymous WE JUST DID SCIENCE!
Atticus Fynch Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Zanetia Jesus wept, this again Once more for those with the IQ of a ******ed goldfish... Items bought from the NEX store just magically appear in the game, completely bypassing the player economy. If you buy a GTC or PLEX and convert it to ISK to buy a ship off the market, someone had to mine the minerals, someone had to research the BP, someone had to build the ship and sell it. It didn't just magically appear out of nowhere. The NEX store selling items would screw over the idustrialists. As for 'use ISK to buy PLEX to convert to AUR so you won't be spending real money' argument. Yes, you will be spending real money. Just someone elses. Same as you use someone elses real money to pay your sub if you but a PLEX with ISK. Regardless of which currency is used, EVE becomes a game of buying victory whether it's with PLEX or $$$ rather than earning it with skills. ^this ----- CCP exhibits an alcoholic personality...please read
Morae	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:00:00 - [9] OP most likely believes that minerals she mines are free.
ghengis khan2 Shad0wtech	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:01:00 - [10] "Now Aurum for SP, I think thats a major drawback because its kind of a kick in the face to all the players who've invested 8+ years in the game. I honestly wouldn't mind a new server specifically for this, even if they have to cut back from TQ. I'm willin to bet a lot of people would migrate just for the opportunity to start over in a new world, but then you run into problems like you did in china having to throttle development and release of items due to in-balances. Hell I say wipe the entire TQ server and let us go back to the stone age." so you think aurum for sp is a kick in the face for 8 year characters, but you would advocate wiping TQ to start again...i do not understand your logic..

Tutskii	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:01:00 - [11] Incorrect. There is no way to generate a PLEX without using real money. When you use up a plex, you are paying somewhere around 17 dollars depending on the currency it was bought in. Whether its yours or someone elses, its irrelevant. The game should be an economy where other players are the sources of items, and services. It is being altered in a fundamental way so that this is no longer true, and features are being actively removed to sell them later for real money. Fittings is a good example. Accessories in the char creator, another one. But I have another one. Have you heard of EACS? This is Estel Arador Clone Services. A corporation stated by a guy that thought everyone should get jump clones and made it happen. It has touched most everyone in EVE, including myself. Faction standings? I bought my corp standings from another player. Why does CCP need to sell that? is it not a huge conflict of interest? With this new direction, it would never have existed, instead you'd pay 4000 AUR to CCP to buy clones for a particular corporation. It also encourages grindy game design where sure, things will be able to be done without real money, but they will take 10 times as long (look at LOTRO, DDO, ETC). In the end, we pay a monthly subscription (people paying with PLEX actually give them more cash than yearly subscribers, by the way) for access to the content of the game. This content is now being shapen in a way that itll be a monthly subscription (but actually for most people, its several monthly subscriptions) plus however much for Aurum consumables. In short, we are being given less for the same money, and sold the difference. Where is the sandbox in all that? That is not the EVE I signed up for. The community doesn't ask for much. It wants to know where things are going. That place isn't looking pretty right now.
Ayame Yubari	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:03:00 - [12] Edited by: Ayame Yubari on 25/06/2011 16:03:12 Also, is there a way to buy SP currently? Didn't think so (as you noticed yourself).
Antihrist Pripravnik Scorpion Road Industry	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:03:00 - [13] Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 25/06/2011 16:04:38 Quote (AGAIN) from http://eve-search.com/thread/1536065/page/195#5846: NOTE: This is not directed to the OP of this particular thread. It's a quote of a response made earlier (since I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over again): A couple of questions for you: - Where do you think ships come from? - Who makes them? - Who researches blueprints? - Why are POS-es anchored in highsec? - Where does POS fuel come from? - Where does the ore come from? - How are POS modules produced and where does the materials come from? - Where does faction items comes from? - Who finds those "officer lewtz"? Haul it to empire? Fight for space to be able to farm officers? Make political agreements for the same reason? - Who invents the t2 modules? - Where does t3 materials come from? - Who does reverse engineering? But no, all those people having fun by playing every single aspect of the game can go screw themselves because you have the cash to buy whatever you want and it's all the same if it comes out of other players or straight from the thin air. Please, think about it. The same goes for blueprints in NEX store, with just ore miners and manufacturers excluded. Everyone else is still affected. [Petition] Make entry into CQ and Incarna optional.
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:04:00 - [14] Also: CCP will care more about making items we will have to buy for Aurum, then adding actual content in the updates we deserve for our monthly subscriptions. CCP is adamant about double-billing us. And to insult to injury: we pay money to CCP, they use most of it to build WoD and Dust, and of what's left they make vanity items or in the future maybe even gamemechanics like the +50fittings, which they are then selling back to us for insane prices. I think we have the right to be mad. + 1500 votes on MT in EVE \| NO 79.03% \| YES 5.02% \| COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% \| OTHER 4.73%
XIRUSPHERE Gallente The 8th Order Mean Coalition	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:05:00 - [15] Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 25/06/2011 16:06:13 Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 25/06/2011 16:05:37 http://www.eveonline.com/externalLink.aspx?l=http%3A%2F%2Feve%2Ebeyondreality%2Ese%2FNeXCQResponse%2Ehtml Read this, weigh it's implications, it's not about aur for items, it's about the complete disregard for the player base and seeing them as nothing but a cash cow. You can have all the barbie stuff you want, it can cost a million dollars for all I care, but that's not enough they want to r.ape pillage and loot this game while introducing mechanic breaking MT. We would rather burn it down than watch this happen. Stay the course. The size of your ligature is too large. Please use it - Failout
Malice Redeemer	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:05:00 - [16] completely bypass the Eve ingame economy.
Rylie Gayle	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:08:00 - [17] I hope they do just go all out balls to the wall against some of you guys just due to your pure idiocy. Someone asks a question and rather than just give a simple answer, you insult and rub sand paper in their eyes because they're apparently blind anyways. I get it now, but none of you really have a say in it. Read the EULA, nothing in this game belongs to you. You're paying for a service, if you don't enjoy the service or the direction its going, stop paying. But just like Hilmar, I highly doubt 99% of the people who are claiming to quit, really are. You will rage, play, and get the hell over it. Yea its not cool for a company to say that to their customers, but guess what this is ****in EVE. Its a cruel game, and guess what it has cruel masters. You really think the people designing a game that allows, and even promotes violence, scamming, thieving, deception, etc don't possess some of those same qualities?
Through Actions Weapons Grade Industries	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Llambda Edited by: Llambda on 25/06/2011 15:56:25 It's baffling that so many people are so entirely ignorant to how the present money supply and plex system works. It's completely different because the ISK you're getting from plex is coming from some other player who acquired that ISK through existing gameplay mechanics. By contrast, AUR is generated out of thin air when you turn a plex in. Regardless of how you, personally, acquired the plex that went into the aurum, real money was directly spent to bring that aurum into existence. The same cannot be said of ISK, the only faucets for which exist in the context of gameplay mechanics (missions, ratting, etc.). You're comparing a currency faucet to a mere exchange of goods. This also means that, for anything sold for AUR, it's possible to completely bypass the Eve ingame economy. This is not true for plex->isk transactions. WRONG. When you buy a PLEX from CCP (not off the market) the PLEX is created out of thin air. Aurum creates an isk sink which should actually help reduce inflation. I really don't see the problem here.
Borun Tal Minmatar Just Abide	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:11:00 - [19] To the OP: only one thing you need to know that answers all questions about both sides of EVERY argument on the forums: The Minerals You Get From Mining Are FREE!!! Understanding that will help you understand every single side of every single argument on the intarwebz.
Da Gooch	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:11:00 - [20] Edited by: Da Gooch on 25/06/2011 16:13:30 Originally by: Rylie Gayle How is it any different than it is now? Atm, or even before the patch, I could goto shattered crystal, buy 60day GTC for 30$, sell it or convert to plex and get isk from it. Completely legal and fine by todays standards. People are going bat **** crazy over the idea of using Aurum for items / ships. All it is doing new is introducing a new smaller form of currency. Ie: 1000$ = 1 New Dollar. ( non real conversion but just an example ) Even if they do offer 'special' items in the aurum store that have more / better bonuses. So what? Buy some Plex with ISK, convert the Plex to Aurum, buy it. You don't have to use RL money anywhere in that equation. Its no different than the current situation. Want a normal T1 raven? Buy a GTC, convert to ISK, buy the raven. The only side effect I see is that Plex prices could raise dramatically, thereby making more people want to buy GTCs to convert to plex for the sake of aurum instead of actual game time. And another thing, if they make the specialized ships ridiculously expensive, ie 5x the cost of a monocle, i highly doubt you'll even be see'ing anyone in them in real combat or any other situation due to the fact that it'll be about a 6-7b ship. Think tournament reward ships. Rarely do you see them flown. Now Aurum for SP, I think thats a major drawback because its kind of a kick in the face to all the players who've invested 8+ years in the game. I honestly wouldn't mind a new server specifically for this, even if they have to cut back from TQ. I'm willin to bet a lot of people would migrate just for the opportunity to start over in a new world, but then you run into problems like you did in china having to throttle development and release of items due to in-balances. Hell I say wipe the entire TQ server and let us go back to the stone age. I suggest you read the thread i made to explain to all those with an IQ under 50, hopefully it will enlighten you alittle better The Butterfly Effect

Da Gooch	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Through Actions Originally by: Llambda Edited by: Llambda on 25/06/2011 15:56:25 It's baffling that so many people are so entirely ignorant to how the present money supply and plex system works. It's completely different because the ISK you're getting from plex is coming from some other player who acquired that ISK through existing gameplay mechanics. By contrast, AUR is generated out of thin air when you turn a plex in. Regardless of how you, personally, acquired the plex that went into the aurum, real money was directly spent to bring that aurum into existence. The same cannot be said of ISK, the only faucets for which exist in the context of gameplay mechanics (missions, ratting, etc.). You're comparing a currency faucet to a mere exchange of goods. This also means that, for anything sold for AUR, it's possible to completely bypass the Eve ingame economy. This is not true for plex->isk transactions. WRONG. When you buy a PLEX from CCP (not off the market) the PLEX is created out of thin air. Aurum creates an isk sink which should actually help reduce inflation. I really don't see the problem here. You Sir have joined the under 50 IQ team, congratz @ being a ******
Llambda Space Llama Industries	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:15:00 - [22] Originally by: Through Actions When you buy a PLEX from CCP (not off the market) the PLEX is created out of thin air. Aurum creates an isk sink which should actually help reduce inflation. I really don't see the problem here. You can't be this stupid. Nobody can.
Rylie Gayle	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:17:00 - [23] Whats the difference between an officer drop in 0.0 worth 5b (created out of thin air) and an Aurum item being bought thats worth 5b? They both inject 5b worth of 'product' into the market with no initial cost. Also it was noted from the alliance tournaments that ships on the aurum market will be in the form of BPCs preferably. Which will probably require the consumption of a t1 item. Again how is that diff than a drop.
Mechanoid Kryten Humble Origins Red Dwarf Racketeering Division	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:17:00 - [24] Edited by: Mechanoid Kryten on 25/06/2011 16:18:15 If you read the leaked memo and letter, and see their recent actions with Hellicity and that other guy, you see that the sandbox and sandbox play is officially dead. their leaked "Fearless" letter correctly says we spend money to have alternate identies. but they want to sell us those identies with real money when in fact they were self-created identies. I, for example, found my 15 min of eve-fame resisting Hellicity's Hulkageddon --which dove away noobs from the game --with an event called GrieferGeddon. Now this is gone and I can't even talk about it here or a Dev who spoke nicely to mat at fanfest will shut this thread down for breaking forum rules. Can you tell me this is the same game where sandbox resistance GrieferGeddon can try to take back high sec from pirates in Hulkageddon? I no longer feel the need to pay for my identity as maxed miner, and un-subed my 2 extra hulks.
Da Gooch	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Rylie Gayle Whats the difference between an officer drop in 0.0 worth 5b (created out of thin air) and an Aurum item being bought thats worth 5b? They both inject 5b worth of 'product' into the market with no initial cost. Also it was noted from the alliance tournaments that ships on the aurum market will be in the form of BPCs preferably. Which will probably require the consumption of a t1 item. Again how is that diff than a drop. READ MY LINK FFS
Mos7Wan7ed Gallente Hardcore Industries	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Discrodia Okay, here's how PLEX works: You buy the plex. You sell the plex to someone else. You get ISK, they get gametime. You use the ISK to buy a Machariel. People who benefit: CCP: Gets money. PLEX Buyer: Gets gametime. PLEX Seller: Gets ISK which is used to buy a Machariel. Machariel Seller: Gets ISK. Now here is how Aurum items work. You buy the plex. It gets turned into Aurum. You get a magic instant Machariel. Here's who benefits: CCP: Gets money. PLEX User: Gets Machariel. Now, the difference is that the former runs through the current ingame economy, benefiting several other people. In the latter scenario, only CCP and the PLEX user benefit. Makes sense? THIS And the months of DEV time to create a second currency when none was required. The vanity items could just as easily be on sale for in game ISK. Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes.
Magos Angstbringer Minmatar Pandorum Research Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Through Actions Originally by: Llambda Edited by: Llambda on 25/06/2011 15:56:25 It's baffling that so many people are so entirely ignorant to how the present money supply and plex system works. It's completely different because the ISK you're getting from plex is coming from some other player who acquired that ISK through existing gameplay mechanics. By contrast, AUR is generated out of thin air when you turn a plex in. Regardless of how you, personally, acquired the plex that went into the aurum, real money was directly spent to bring that aurum into existence. The same cannot be said of ISK, the only faucets for which exist in the context of gameplay mechanics (missions, ratting, etc.). You're comparing a currency faucet to a mere exchange of goods. This also means that, for anything sold for AUR, it's possible to completely bypass the Eve ingame economy. This is not true for plex->isk transactions. WRONG. When you buy a PLEX from CCP (not off the market) the PLEX is created out of thin air. Aurum creates an isk sink which should actually help reduce inflation. I really don't see the problem here.
Scerolikk Teromni Atrocious Order	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:19:00 - [28] Edited by: Scerolikk Teromni on 25/06/2011 16:23:44 Originally by: Discrodia You buy the plex. You sell the plex to someone else. You get ISK, they get gametime. You use the ISK to buy a Machariel. People who benefit: CCP (one entity): Gets money. PLEX Buyer (one person): Gets gametime. PLEX Seller (one person): Gets ISK which is used to buy a Machariel. Machariel Seller (one person): Gets ISK which is used to buy another BPC and more minerals to build another Machariel. Miner (potentially several people): Gets ISK which is used to buy a new Hulk after it was destroyed by the Machariel built from his minerals. Blueprint Copier (one person): Gets ISK for his blueprints and swims in money. Traders (potentially hundreds of people): Get ISK the entire time for playing the market and moving all the aforementioned things around. FTFY: When you buy one Machariel on the market, you are potentially affecting the lives of hundreds of people. When you buy one with Aurum, you ruin EVE. -- Quote: Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
Demon Azrakel Gallente Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:22:00 - [29] Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 25/06/2011 16:22:19 Originally by: Through Actions Originally by: Llambda Edited by: Llambda on 25/06/2011 15:56:25 It's baffling that so many people are so entirely ignorant to how the present money supply and plex system works. It's completely different because the ISK you're getting from plex is coming from some other player who acquired that ISK through existing gameplay mechanics. By contrast, AUR is generated out of thin air when you turn a plex in. Regardless of how you, personally, acquired the plex that went into the aurum, real money was directly spent to bring that aurum into existence. The same cannot be said of ISK, the only faucets for which exist in the context of gameplay mechanics (missions, ratting, etc.). You're comparing a currency faucet to a mere exchange of goods. This also means that, for anything sold for AUR, it's possible to completely bypass the Eve ingame economy. This is not true for plex->isk transactions. WRONG. When you buy a PLEX from CCP (not off the market) the PLEX is created out of thin air. Aurum creates an isk sink which should actually help reduce inflation. I really don't see the problem here. You are fucking retarded.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.06.25 16:25:00 - [30] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 16:26:59 Finding it hard to understand why people are upset over aur for items? EVE players just get upset easily. They¦re often the autistic spreadsheet warrior type who doesn¦t like changes. It upsets them, they feel like they are losing grip on their little world and they get very emotional. Yes it¦s a bit sad but they can¦t help it. They're not upset over the items, they're upset because internal documents showed that they may have plans to sell stuff for RL cash, which may unbalance the economy and give new players the opportunity to get more advantages.



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Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?