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When will people get tired of them using our money for other projects?

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Jaehawn	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:02:00 - [1] We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once.
deathdragons	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:03:00 - [2] I agree!!!!
Ivor Spacehopper	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:04:00 - [3] Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income.
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:05:00 - [4] Are you asking When will people get ticked off at the fact that CCP is financially over-extended and thus looking for ways to milk it's loyal EVE customers because of trying to cash in on Twilight watching teenie boppers? My question is where have you been for the last week???
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:05:00 - [5] Edited by: Karl Planck on 01/07/2011 15:08:26 I'm going to start a new hobby with these half wit threads. You sir fail at EVE, either by hiding behind an alt or like this for rizzle, stop sucking (eve, forums, life, etc) Edit, lets add some more deathdragons nearly 4 years in the game and 100 kills WHILE in 0.0 ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Abominare The Hatchery	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:06:00 - [6] The stupid here is unbearable. Ill let you in on a secret any money you've ever spent on a video game was used to make the next one! The gas you put in your car? (assuming your country lets some one as mentally challenged as you drive) was used to in part to pay for finding the next oild well to make more gas! The food you ate which was possibly grown, the money paid also paid to be able to plant the next crop! Clearly we should stop eating and driving! Business how the **** do they work?
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. See my Schr÷dinger's cat post. :) -- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP
xNEWxTROLLxHEREx Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:07:00 - [8] Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I am angry now.
deathdragons	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:09:00 - [9] Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. Well to be fair.. By incress the money we spend in EVE just to fond an other game.. = not cool
Mr Epeen It's All About Me	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. Colored the only part you got right. Anything else is you had to say is butt hurt tantrum. Mr Epeen
Kitsune Sakai	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:10:00 - [11] It's not like it's your money you know. You gave it to ÇÇp and it ceased to be your money and became their money. And I for one think it's far better for them to use the money on new games than to pay failed icelandic bankers the money (or 1/3 of the money anyways) the really bad part is that they seem to have over-estimated how much of the stuff they can get out of EVE without wrecking the game. And managed to be 1. class bungholes in the process of course...
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:10:00 - [12] Edited by: Jenn aSide on 01/07/2011 15:13:44 -Voice of reason- But seriously, no one with any sense wants CCP to NOT expand, make money or make new games. They are a business. But you have to expand SMARTLY, in a timely fashion. Trying to make TWO news games from the income of one that itself needs some loving (thanks for your efforts anyways Team BFF) during a worldwide recession where there are potentially fewer dollars to be spent on gaming/entertainment is at best foolish and at worst criminally stupid. Many of us resent the foolishness because it threatens to alter our game experience that we are already paying for. Hope that sums it up for y'all CCP loyalists :) . -/Voice of Reason- PS you all suck.
Bullyboutya Minmatar Taxxon Industrial Enterprises	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. LMAO another one who feels entitled. News flash bra once your money leaves your account and goes to CCP guess what bra THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY LIKE WITH IT. Oh before I forget your not ENTILTELD TO ANYHTING BRA hey I'm just saying
Eyup Mi'duck	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:19:00 - [14] I expect CCP to use much of the subs from EVE to cover their overheads and invest back in their future business. BUT not at the expense of abandoning EVE. I expect to get something back, other than beta-testing elements of WoD and DUST.  Get over it!  Learn from your mistake and move on. 
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Jenn aSide Edited by: Jenn aSide on 01/07/2011 15:13:44 -Voice of reason- But seriously, no one with any sense wants CCP to NOT expand, make money or make new games. They are a business. But you have to expand SMARTLY, in a timely fashion. Trying to make TWO news games from the income of one that itself needs some loving (thanks for your efforts anyways Team BFF) during a worldwide recession where there are potentially fewer dollars to be spent on gaming/entertainment is at best foolish and at worst criminally stupid. Many of us resent the foolishness because it threatens to alter our game experience that we are already paying for. Hope that sums it up for y'all CCP loyalists :) . -/Voice of Reason- PS you all suck. Thank god they have you to tell them how they should spend their money. I have no idea how they have managed to survive the last 8 years without you... ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Agrikaan Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. You make no sense. If one game must exists for another to be funded and made, how was the first game made? In short, EVE. That were taking loans and getting financial backing comes in. I for one want to play with spaceship. I don't want to play with Space Barbies. I don't really care to play The Vampire Diarrheas. I can't ever play Dust because it an "exclusive". I for one want the money I pay for EVE to go into EVE, and make it better for many more years. PS. Who's the more pathetic whiner, the whiner or the whiner who whines about whiners.
The Antiquarian Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. This is the most twisted logic I've ever read. We did not obligate CCP to use our money solely for EVE Online. I am under the assumption that the OP has no idea when it comes to how a firm/corporation functions.
Stephanie Rose Nos Exigo Effercio	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:26:00 - [18] I think the real point to any of this is simple, CCP doesn't care, bottom line. CCP has left things broken an hasn't seemed to try to fix any of them, wallpaper over a whole in the wall isn't a fix, it is only cosmetic. So far as I can see, they are pushing to expand revenue an not much else. The famous line "The game is working as intended", is it really? If it is, this pride in their work that so many people say CCP employees have, seems a bit off, or are they proud to be milking us with a sick cow? I hope the CSMs are enjoying the beer an white russians they seem to enjoy blogging/twittering about ...
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Karl Planck ...nearly 4 years in the game and 100 kills WHILE in 0.0 0.0 is for carebears who want to shoot red cross and be considered the "endgame" ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
tikktokk tokkzikk STORM Squad	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:27:00 - [20] I think one project is OK but TWO?! Sell WoD, pay the debt and replace nex with my suggestion below. My solution to micro-transactions/noble exchange and CCPs money problem!
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Agrikaan Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:29:14 Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. You make no sense. If one game must exist for another to be funded and made, how was the first game made? In short, EVE. That's were taking loans and getting financial backing comes in. If you can't present a business case to potential investors and shareholders that's good enough to get the funding, the product should not be made. And not by leaching of another product, especially if that's the only one you have. Only two kinds of people believe in continial growth in a limited world and a niche product: Economists and idiots. I for one want to play with spaceship. I don't want to play with Space Barbies. I don't really care to play The Vampire Diarrheas. I can't ever play Dust because it an "exclusive". I for one want the money I pay for EVE to go into EVE, and make it better for many more years. PS. Who's the more pathetic whiner, the whiner or the whiner who whines about whiners. Take a business course. Get back to us on this. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
The Antiquarian Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Agrikaan Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:30:07 Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:29:14 Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. You make no sense. If one game must exist for another to be funded and made, how was the first game made? In short, EVE. That's were taking loans and getting financial backing comes in. If you can't present a business case to potential investors and shareholders that's good enough to get the funding, the product should not be made. And not by leaching of another product, especially if that's the only one you have. Only two kinds of people believe in continual growth in a limited world and a niche product: Economists and idiots. I for one want to play with spaceship. I don't want to play with Space Barbies. I don't really care to play The Vampire Diarrheas. I can't ever play Dust because it an "exclusive". I for one want the money I pay for EVE to go into EVE, and make it better for many more years. PS. Who's the more pathetic whiner, the whiner or the whiner who whines about whiners. You are not a shareholder so your points are void. Yup, just as the poster above mine said, take a few business courses and then realize how your points make no sense.
Agrikaan Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Agrikaan Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:29:14 Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. You make no sense. If one game must exist for another to be funded and made, how was the first game made? In short, EVE. That's were taking loans and getting financial backing comes in. If you can't present a business case to potential investors and shareholders that's good enough to get the funding, the product should not be made. And not by leaching of another product, especially if that's the only one you have. Only two kinds of people believe in continial growth in a limited world and a niche product: Economists and idiots. I for one want to play with spaceship. I don't want to play with Space Barbies. I don't really care to play The Vampire Diarrheas. I can't ever play Dust because it an "exclusive". I for one want the money I pay for EVE to go into EVE, and make it better for many more years. PS. Who's the more pathetic whiner, the whiner or the whiner who whines about whiners. Take a business course. Get back to us on this. No please, show us your intellect, tell us how you would develop the first game for a few years without any income. And perhaps you should read up about how EVE was made, and how close they were to folding more than once, before release.
Anigava Gallente Misanthropic Ventures	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:34:00 - [24] Jaehawn, while I feel your pain, I'd like to point out the reality in Gaming Industry. Should you choose to leave Eve Online, prepare yourself emotionally...... Perpetuum and World of Tanks, if they ever become half as successful as Eve, will ultimately develop a new game and fund it from existing revenues...... that's the way it works. Welcome to the sandbox called Capitalism.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP
Agrikaan Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:36:00 - [26] Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:37:35 Originally by: The Antiquarian Originally by: Agrikaan Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:30:07 Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:29:14 Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. You make no sense. If one game must exist for another to be funded and made, how was the first game made? In short, EVE. That's were taking loans and getting financial backing comes in. If you can't present a business case to potential investors and shareholders that's good enough to get the funding, the product should not be made. And not by leaching of another product, especially if that's the only one you have. Only two kinds of people believe in continual growth in a limited world and a niche product: Economists and idiots. I for one want to play with spaceship. I don't want to play with Space Barbies. I don't really care to play The Vampire Diarrheas. I can't ever play Dust because it an "exclusive". I for one want the money I pay for EVE to go into EVE, and make it better for many more years. PS. Who's the more pathetic whiner, the whiner or the whiner who whines about whiners. You are not a shareholder so your points are void. Yup, just as the poster above mine said, take a few business courses and then realize how your points make no sense. No, not a shareholder. A customer. That means, in the end, more important than any shareholder. At least if the shareholder wants to earn any money / get money back on the investment. No one with a business sense worth a worm would ever say that customer opinions doesn't matter and are "void".
Jaehawn	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:36:00 - [27] One thing you did get right we aren't shareholders in CCP we are investers which should give us a say in where our money goes. So maybe a few more people should take those business courses.
The Antiquarian Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Agrikaan Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Agrikaan Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:29:14 Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. You make no sense. If one game must exist for another to be funded and made, how was the first game made? In short, EVE. That's were taking loans and getting financial backing comes in. If you can't present a business case to potential investors and shareholders that's good enough to get the funding, the product should not be made. And not by leaching of another product, especially if that's the only one you have. Only two kinds of people believe in continial growth in a limited world and a niche product: Economists and idiots. I for one want to play with spaceship. I don't want to play with Space Barbies. I don't really care to play The Vampire Diarrheas. I can't ever play Dust because it an "exclusive". I for one want the money I pay for EVE to go into EVE, and make it better for many more years. PS. Who's the more pathetic whiner, the whiner or the whiner who whines about whiners. Take a business course. Get back to us on this. No please, show us your intellect, tell us how you would develop the first game for a few years without any income. And perhaps you should read up about how EVE was made, and how close they were to folding more than once, before release. Do you just not get it? Here's some suggested readings for you. Google some of these keywords: corporation shareholder stakeholder fiduciary duties of corporation's management and perhaps in your case.... the agreements we are suppose to accept when we log into the game.
Stephanie Rose Nos Exigo Effercio	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Agrikaan Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Agrikaan Edited by: Agrikaan on 01/07/2011 15:29:14 Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. You make no sense. If one game must exist for another to be funded and made, how was the first game made? In short, EVE. That's were taking loans and getting financial backing comes in. If you can't present a business case to potential investors and shareholders that's good enough to get the funding, the product should not be made. And not by leaching of another product, especially if that's the only one you have. Only two kinds of people believe in continial growth in a limited world and a niche product: Economists and idiots. I for one want to play with spaceship. I don't want to play with Space Barbies. I don't really care to play The Vampire Diarrheas. I can't ever play Dust because it an "exclusive". I for one want the money I pay for EVE to go into EVE, and make it better for many more years. PS. Who's the more pathetic whiner, the whiner or the whiner who whines about whiners. Take a business course. Get back to us on this. No please, show us your intellect, tell us how you would develop the first game for a few years without any income. And perhaps you should read up about how EVE was made, and how close they were to folding more than once, before release. Live in your moms basement till the game is ready for deployment? (S M A R T A S S)
The Antiquarian Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:39:00 - [30] Edited by: The Antiquarian on 01/07/2011 15:39:19 Originally by: Jaehawn One thing you did get right we aren't shareholders in CCP we are investers which should give us a say in where our money goes. So maybe a few more people should take those business courses. No we are not investors. We are customers who are paying for the service. There is a huge difference between investors and customers. A college level business course helps.
Cordran Li	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Jaehawn so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Cause it's totally normal.
Agrikaan Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:43:00 - [32] Quote: Do you just not get it? Here's some suggested readings for you. Google some of these keywords: corporation shareholder stakeholder fiduciary duties of corporation's management and perhaps in your case.... the agreements we are suppose to accept when we log into the game. You didn't answer my question. Nor did you ever argue what was wrong with my initial argument. That's just bad form, and not very clever. So your arrogance and superiority complex makes you points invalid. Especially since you've provided no points at all. Oh, and I've run and managed a successful small corporation for the past 22 years, need no further reading really.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. No, you use the investor's money to pay for the first project. If that project makes money, you go back to the investors and ask them if you can use their profits to pay for a second project.
The Antiquarian Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:46:00 - [34] Edited by: The Antiquarian on 01/07/2011 15:47:32 Originally by: Agrikaan Quote: Do you just not get it? Here's some suggested readings for you. Google some of these keywords: corporation shareholder stakeholder fiduciary duties of corporation's management and perhaps in your case.... the agreements we are suppose to accept when we log into the game. You didn't answer my question. Nor did you ever argue what was wrong with my initial argument. That's just bad form, and not very clever. So your arrogance and superiority complex makes you points invalid. Especially since you've provided no points at all. Oh, and I've run and managed a successful small corporation for the past 22 years, need no further reading really. I heavily doubt that. Seeing what you wrote, your understanding of how a corporation functions is close to nothing. Why argue when you won't understand? P.S. Just because you managed a small convenient store in the middle of Alabama for 22 years doesn't equate to running a "successful" corporation.
Cordran Li	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Claire Voyant Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. No, you use the investor's money to pay for the first project. If that project makes money, you go back to the investors and ask them if you can use their profits to pay for a second project. Investment: the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value. We're customers, not investors. There's a big difference. CCP doesn't need customers' permission to use their money.
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:52:00 - [36] Both of you are taking a one-way street. Loans are absolute requirement for corporate world and fiat money system to work and new projects needs to get their capital somewhere. However, companies can fund new projects with their own income as well if things are peachy. Problem for players is that CCP has directed so much of their income towards new projects that are not necessarily that interesting to EVE players and left their game to lanquish. That is the impression of it anyway. This whole CSM emergency thing would not need to exist if EVE was expanding with good speed and people were feeling they are getting their moneys worth in return.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:52:00 - [37] Originally by: Agrikaan Quote: Do you just not get it? Here's some suggested readings for you. Google some of these keywords: corporation shareholder stakeholder fiduciary duties of corporation's management and perhaps in your case.... the agreements we are suppose to accept when we log into the game. You didn't answer my question. Nor did you ever argue what was wrong with my initial argument. That's just bad form, and not very clever. So your arrogance and superiority complex makes you points invalid. Especially since you've provided no points at all. Oh, and I've run and managed a successful small corporation for the past 22 years, need no further reading really. Since you have no concept of how funding is acquired for ongoing and future projects in the gaming industry (or greater corporate world for that matter), I would say that your laundromat hasn't prepared you well for this discussion. Quote: No, not a shareholder. A customer. That means, in the end, more important than any shareholder. At least if the shareholder wants to earn any money / get money back on the investment. Customer feedback is always valued. However feedback does not equate to dictating corporate policy. No COO is going to blindly follow the financial advice offered by a customer with little or no practical knowledge of the industry he is offering his sage advice on. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Sub Prime	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Cordran Li Originally by: Jaehawn so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Cause it's totally normal. You absolute muppet. Considering EVE is the sole income for CCP at the moment, it's not good business practise to a) make changes that are potentially volatile to the community and b) ignore bugs / much needed changes. i.e. you never risk your cash cow/bread and butter, borrow against it, sure, but never risk it. By all means spend money in developing new titles but you don't screw up your 'golden goose' doing it. EVE doesn't have any direct competitors currently or in the imminent future so IMO it's rather foolish to gamble on massive investment in 2 new ventures.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Cordran Li Originally by: Claire Voyant Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. No, you use the investor's money to pay for the first project. If that project makes money, you go back to the investors and ask them if you can use their profits to pay for a second project. Investment: the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value. We're customers, not investors. There's a big difference. CCP doesn't need customers' permission to use their money. Yeah, that's why I said investors, not customers. If I had meant customers, I would have said it.
The Antiquarian Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Sub Prime Originally by: Cordran Li Originally by: Jaehawn so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Cause it's totally normal. You absolute muppet. Considering EVE is the sole income for CCP at the moment, it's not good business practise to a) make changes that are potentially volatile to the community and b) ignore bugs / much needed changes. i.e. you never risk your cash cow/bread and butter, borrow against it, sure, but never risk it. By all means spend money in developing new titles but you don't screw up your 'golden goose' doing it. EVE doesn't have any direct competitors currently or in the imminent future so IMO it's rather foolish to gamble on massive investment in 2 new ventures. Your point is valid. It's just that the OP failed in every ways to communicate effectively, mumbling about his ill understanding of how firms operate, that triggered some of us to fix that error. What you stated is posted on dozens of threads with proper heading and proper posting. This one just fails. We don't need another emotional outrage of a poster who mumbles bull****.
Sub Prime	Posted - 2011.07.01 15:59:00 - [41] Originally by: The Antiquarian This one just fails. We don't need another emotional outrage of a poster who mumbles nonsensical bull****. Agreed!
CowQueen MMXII Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:00:00 - [42] Originally by: The Antiquarian We don't need another emotional outrage of a poster who mumbles nonsensical bull****. Don't blame the bulls, not their fault at all.
Vain Eldritch Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:03:00 - [43] As soon as the money goes from your CC to CCP it's their money, honey. You gave it to them to play Eve Online. What they do with it is, frankly, their business (literally). They could improve Eve (and yes - shock - I like Incarna). They could also use the money to fund other games to make more money so that their games - like Eve - can continue for years to come. Why, they could even purchase a decommissioned Russian nuclear submarine to water-ski behind for all I care. I'd like bug fixes too. ______________________________ Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas.
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Claire Voyant Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. No, you use the investor's money to pay for the first project. If that project makes money, you go back to the investors and ask them if you can use their profits to pay for a second project. Did you read their accounts? That's exactly what they did. Profits for 2010 were retained - no dividends were paid. And don't forget they also raised new equity to fund the development cost of the new games.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:08:00 - [45] Originally by: Abominare The stupid here is unbearable. Ill let you in on a secret any money you've ever spent on a video game was used to make the next one! YouÆre not helping the stupid quotient. You claim that all the money everyone spent from day one on eve was used to make some game other than eve. Is that your secret? I guess no company could ever start their first game then right? Of course they can. There are many ways you can start a new game and get funding for what you need other than squeezing the players of your first successful game. Its not like ccp needs to spend every dime it makes on eve for eve. But when everyone acknowledges (even ccp) many parts of the game desperately needs work yet its clear ccp will not address these issues for yearsthey should not expect players to keep paying them. Only an idiot will keep paying for a broken product if the company makes it clear that they will never fix it. So everyone who wanted improvements and fixes for so many different things in this game will eventually get the picture and start leaving the game. IÆm not angry at ccp. ItÆs just that they decided to put their resources into something I and many other subscribers are not interested in. So I and others unsubscribe. Once they work on what I find interesting then I will re-subscribe. No hard feelings we are just trying some transparent communication techniques.
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:08:00 - [46] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Jenn aSide Edited by: Jenn aSide on 01/07/2011 15:13:44 -Voice of reason- But seriously, no one with any sense wants CCP to NOT expand, make money or make new games. They are a business. But you have to expand SMARTLY, in a timely fashion. Trying to make TWO news games from the income of one that itself needs some loving (thanks for your efforts anyways Team BFF) during a worldwide recession where there are potentially fewer dollars to be spent on gaming/entertainment is at best foolish and at worst criminally stupid. Many of us resent the foolishness because it threatens to alter our game experience that we are already paying for. Hope that sums it up for y'all CCP loyalists :) . -/Voice of Reason- PS you all suck. Thank god they have you to tell them how they should spend their money. I have no idea how they have managed to survive the last 8 years without you... That's the same kind of hubris CCP has recently displayed. Too bad all you can add to the discussion is a troll. You have the right alliance ticker my friend.... Just because they make ONE successful game (which isn't only successful because of it's quality, but also because it has no real competition......) doesn't mean they are elite game makers. The smart thing to do would be to expand a bit more slowly, building on the reputation as the makers of EVE (and building their corporate culture to get away from the "small game shop" mentality) and THEN go for the big bucks. They are making a grab at being a major games producer and i think they are doing so too quickly, and that potentially puts CCP and EVE in jeopardy. I hope they mature and slow down a bit rather than cave too much to investor pressure for "moar profits NOW".
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:14:00 - [47] Originally by: Varo Jan Originally by: Claire Voyant Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. No, you use the investor's money to pay for the first project. If that project makes money, you go back to the investors and ask them if you can use their profits to pay for a second project. Did you read their accounts? That's exactly what they did. Profits for 2010 were retained - no dividends were paid. And don't forget they also raised new equity to fund the development cost of the new games. I guess my first mistake was posting on GD in the first place because apparently everyone assumes that you are an idiot and if you say something sensible you couldn't possibly have meant what you said. All I am saying is that you don't automatically start a new project, you go back to the investors, represented by the board, and ask them for their permission to use their profits to start a new project.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:21:00 - [48] Originally by: Jenn aSide Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Jenn aSide Edited by: Jenn aSide on 01/07/2011 15:13:44 -Voice of reason- But seriously, no one with any sense wants CCP to NOT expand, make money or make new games. They are a business. But you have to expand SMARTLY, in a timely fashion. Trying to make TWO news games from the income of one that itself needs some loving (thanks for your efforts anyways Team BFF) during a worldwide recession where there are potentially fewer dollars to be spent on gaming/entertainment is at best foolish and at worst criminally stupid. Many of us resent the foolishness because it threatens to alter our game experience that we are already paying for. Hope that sums it up for y'all CCP loyalists :) . -/Voice of Reason- PS you all suck. Thank god they have you to tell them how they should spend their money. I have no idea how they have managed to survive the last 8 years without you... That's the same kind of hubris CCP has recently displayed. Too bad all you can add to the discussion is a troll. You have the right alliance ticker my friend.... Just because they make ONE successful game (which isn't only successful because of it's quality, but also because it has no real competition......) doesn't mean they are elite game makers. The smart thing to do would be to expand a bit more slowly, building on the reputation as the makers of EVE (and building their corporate culture to get away from the "small game shop" mentality) and THEN go for the big bucks. They are making a grab at being a major games producer and i think they are doing so too quickly, and that potentially puts CCP and EVE in jeopardy. I hope they mature and slow down a bit rather than cave too much to investor pressure for "moar profits NOW". Because 8 years of success and growth is a sign of a poor business plan? Because 8 years is such a short period of time in the gaming industry, nobody expands unless their game is at least 10 years old right? Making EVE itself was a huge risk. Nobody thought it could be done. If they had adopted your philosophy as their corporate philosophy, there would be no EVE. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:22:00 - [49] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. "in part"?? CCP has 22 devs assigned to the inspace/gameplay part of eve. There are 124 devs in eve the rest are assigned to things like links for dust and incarnatransactions. Incarna adds no gameplay to eve unless you consider typing your credit card number into the computer to buy virtual clothes game play. It is mainly a method to develop wod characters and squeeze eve players for more money. But that 124 devs are only the "eve devs" That number does not include the main dust devs, or the WOD devs. If those games have half of the devs eve has then over 90% of the developers are working on things other than gameplay for eve! They have practically abandoned eve. You may be happy with eve as it is and not think it needs work. But others do. I am one of them. I see that there are no plans to even assign more devs to the gameplay part of eve so I am unsubbing. ItÆs pretty easy to see that I am not the only one who broke this code.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:25:00 - [50] Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. "in part"?? CCP has 22 devs assigned to the inspace/gameplay part of eve. There are 124 devs in eve the rest are assigned to things like links for dust and incarnatransactions. Incarna adds no gameplay to eve unless you consider typing your credit card number into the computer to buy virtual clothes game play. It is mainly a method to develop wod characters and squeeze eve players for more money. But that 124 devs are only the "eve devs" That number does not include the main dust devs, or the WOD devs. If those games have half of the devs eve has then over 90% of the developers are working on things other than gameplay for eve! They have practically abandoned eve. You may be happy with eve as it is and not think it needs work. But others do. I am one of them. I see that there are no plans to even assign more devs to the gameplay part of eve so I am unsubbing. ItÆs pretty easy to see that I am not the only one who broke this code. 18 months of heavy development in other area's, clearly stated about a year ago. Pretty straight forward, no surprises there. Apparently the "code" is called the alphabet. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Salpun Gallente Paramount Commerce	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:26:00 - [51] It all goes to improve the Carbon framework. With every bug fix and feature add all 3 projects get stronger. I find bug hunting more fun then playing some times so bring it on.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Ranger 1 Because 8 years of success and growth is a sign of a poor business plan? .... Are you saying they never put the bulk of the profits of eve back into eve? If you admit they probably used to put the profits of eve back into the development of eve, then you must admit their business plan changed. That is because they certainly are not putting hardly any profits from eve into further development of it now. Until they start making development of eve gameplay a priority again eve will be dead end game.
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Ranger 1 Because 8 years of success and growth is a sign of a poor business plan? Because 8 years is such a short period of time in the gaming industry, nobody expands unless their game is at least 10 years old right? Why you feel the need to put words in my mouth I don't know, nor do I care. CCP has made one game, and imo still have the "one niche game, small game company mentaility". It would be smarter to expand more smartly rather than making a big grab. Im just a customer, not an investor, but I don't want a game I enjoy to die because of corporate over-reach (even though, EVE might survive a CCP downfall because it could be sold, but just rather that not happen). Quote: Making EVE itself was a huge risk. Nobody thought it could be done. If they had adopted your philosophy as their corporate philosophy, there would be no EVE. You are simply incorrect. No one is saying "don't ever take chances". But there is smart gambling and stupid gambling. Trying to grab to much during an economic downturn could be a big mistake. Of course I could be wrong, CCP could strike it rich(er) with WoD and my concerns would be moot. But it's not a gamble I would take, where as the orginal gamble with EVE (a niche game with little direct competition) is a gamble i would have taken.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Ranger 1 18 months of heavy development in other area's, clearly stated about a year ago. Pretty straight forward, no surprises there. Apparently the "code" is called the alphabet. That was in june of 2010. So are we going to see the majority of those 124 devs reassigned back to gameplay features of eve in december 2011? Or is the bulk going to remain in incarnatransactions?
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:34:00 - [55] OP: Wait... "why isn't anyone upset?"... Don't get me wrong bro but... where have you been the last two weeks? 90% of the forum rage boils down to "they are ruining my game to make monies for a game I don't care about." (short-sighted as that may be.)
Stephanie Rose Nos Exigo Effercio	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:36:00 - [56] Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Ranger 1 18 months of heavy development in other area's, clearly stated about a year ago. Pretty straight forward, no surprises there. Apparently the "code" is called the alphabet. That was in june of 2010. So are we going to see the majority of those 124 devs reassigned back to gameplay features of eve in december 2011? Or is the bulk going to remain in incarnatransactions? OMG NO! They can't go back to working on, an fixing EvE, who is going to design my avatars dress that I will have to use 6 PLEXes to buy? My can of sarcasm ran out, I have to go to the store an buy more.
Captain Futur3	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:37:00 - [57] I totally agree with the OP and I think a lot of comments made in this thread are wrong or shortsighted. Yes, its normal and ok when one game funds the next game if the sucess is big enough. But the normal case is that a company of the size of CCP will only develop ONE more game after Eve and not 2 at the same time. Its simply that CCP needs a course in economics and game developement, else we wouldnt be in this situation. They tried to create three games out of the income of one and we are at the point where CCP do realize that the income from us is not high enough, so they need to introduce MTs. If they would only develope ONE extra game at a time, i believe that we wouldnt have that problem. There would be even more money for Eve so that proper patches and addons that we would call "addons" again would be the case.
Centaur Centurion	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:37:00 - [58] Originally by: Jenn aSide Edited by: Jenn aSide on 01/07/2011 15:13:44 -Voice of reason- But seriously, no one with any sense wants CCP to NOT expand, make money or make new games. They are a business. But you have to expand SMARTLY, in a timely fashion. Trying to make TWO news games from the income of one that itself needs some loving (thanks for your efforts anyways Team BFF) during a worldwide recession where there are potentially fewer dollars to be spent on gaming/entertainment is at best foolish and at worst criminally stupid. Many of us resent the foolishness because it threatens to alter our game experience that we are already paying for. Hope that sums it up for y'all CCP loyalists :) . -/Voice of Reason- PS you all suck. Quote 4tw. CCP mismanaged by trying developing two new games, which leads the development for EvE lacks and they want to milk more money out of EvE.
Sub Prime	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:41:00 - [59] Edited by: Sub Prime on 01/07/2011 16:41:19 Originally by: Captain Futur3 Yes, its normal and ok when one game funds the next game if the sucess is big enough. But the normal case is that a company of the size of CCP will only develop ONE more game after Eve and not 2 at the same time. Its simply that CCP needs a course in economics and game developement, else we wouldnt be in this situation. They tried to create three games out of the income of one and we are at the point where CCP do realize that the income from us is not high enough, so they need to introduce MTs. If they would only develope ONE extra game at a time, i believe that we wouldnt have that problem. There would be even more money for Eve so that proper patches and addons that we would call "addons" again would be the case. +1
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:41:00 - [60] Also, I really don't get where people are getting their WoD-facts. 1: It's not just about vampires. World of Darkness is an immensely popular and successful pen&paper game system that sports all kinds of horror-themed creatures. 2: WoD has absolutely -nothing- to do with the current teen-angst vampire chick. That's just low... 3: CCP acquired/partnered with/whatever White Wolf years ago, long before any recession. This is not about them grabbing cheap recession assets because they're greedy, this is about CCP buying a high-profile franchise with a lot of potential. Oh and 4: DUST may not be about internet spaceships but I for one think it will be awesome if they manage to pull off integrating it with EVE, which alone will provide for tons of new gameplay. Bottom Line: CCP mismanaged and I really think we should tear down this junk so we can at least see it burn pretty.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:43:00 - [61] Originally by: Lu'Marat Edited by: Lu''Marat on 01/07/2011 16:39:17 OP: Wait... "why isn't anyone upset?"... Don't get me wrong bro but... where have you been the last two weeks? 90% of the forum rage boils down to "they are ruining my game to make monies for a game I don't care about." (short-sighted as that may be.) Yeah but I doubt this "CSM - CCP joint statement" will tell us how many devs ccp intends to assign to eve gameplay and when. They are trying to focus on smaller problems while ignoring the elephant in the room.
Mara Villoso	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:50:00 - [62] It's not "our" money. We paid them for access to the game. Now its theirs. If you don't want them to use it for something else, don't give them your money.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:52:00 - [63] Originally by: Jenn aSide Originally by: Ranger 1 Because 8 years of success and growth is a sign of a poor business plan? Because 8 years is such a short period of time in the gaming industry, nobody expands unless their game is at least 10 years old right? Why you feel the need to put words in my mouth I don't know, nor do I care. CCP has made one game, and imo still have the "one niche game, small game company mentaility". It would be smarter to expand more smartly rather than making a big grab. Im just a customer, not an investor, but I don't want a game I enjoy to die because of corporate over-reach (even though, EVE might survive a CCP downfall because it could be sold, but just rather that not happen). Quote: Making EVE itself was a huge risk. Nobody thought it could be done. If they had adopted your philosophy as their corporate philosophy, there would be no EVE. You are simply incorrect. No one is saying "don't ever take chances". But there is smart gambling and stupid gambling. Trying to grab to much during an economic downturn could be a big mistake. Of course I could be wrong, CCP could strike it rich(er) with WoD and my concerns would be moot. But it's not a gamble I would take, where as the orginal gamble with EVE (a niche game with little direct competition) is a gamble i would have taken. As long as you realize that is simply your personal opinion and you have no facts or examples to back it up with, we're fine. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Puss in Boots	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:56:00 - [64] You realize that once you pay for services renders, It's no longer your money right? It's like tipping a waiter and then getting ticked off cause he bought a pack of smokes.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 16:58:00 - [65] Originally by: Mara Villoso It's not "our" money. We paid them for access to the game. Now its theirs. If you don't want them to use it for something else, don't give them your money. Yep thats it. If you don't want to pay for and play a dead end game don't do it. If you do then go ahead and give them your money, so they can use it to develop WOD Dust and incarnatransactions.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:00:00 - [66] Edited by: Estephania on 01/07/2011 17:00:25 Nothing wrong with using Eve money for other projects, that's absolutely normal. Overstretching the business and milking dry the only profitable game CCP has is not normal though. I think someone should explain to those guys that greed is bad, it destroys PR, alienates customers and kills businesses.
Sub Prime	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:00:00 - [67] Originally by: Puss in Boots You realize that once you pay for services renders, It's no longer your money right? It's like tipping a waiter and then getting ticked off cause he bought a pack of smokes. I think everyone realises that, eejit!! They can do whatever they want with they money, but that doesn't mean whatever they do makes sound financial sense. For company based on suscription income, customer retention is/should be #1. ******s like you seem to disagree though.
Llambda Space Llama Industries	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:03:00 - [68] They're not using "our" money for other projects. They're using their money for other projects. As much as I loathe a lot of what CCP has done lately, I can't really fault them for that.
Taius Pax	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Mr Epeen Colored the only part you got right. Anything else is you had to say is butt hurt tantrum. Mr Epeen You look like Montel Williams. And where is your monocle?
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:06:00 - [70] Im tired of them not reinvesting in EVE. But it is their money. They arent stealing from you - they are simply providing pis s poor service. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Spookyjay Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:11:00 - [71] Originally by: Llambda They're not using "our" money for other projects. They're using their money for other projects. As much as I loathe a lot of what CCP has done lately, I can't really fault them for that. You can and should. If your Employer went bankrupt and then you lost your job because the CEO's over invested in projects that would not see return for a long time instead of growing established incomes with investment then you would be ****ed.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:11:00 - [72] Originally by: Llambda They're not using "our" money for other projects. They're using their money for other projects. As much as I loathe a lot of what CCP has done lately, I can't really fault them for that. I don't really think its a matter of "fault." Its more a matter of my own business/personal decision. If CCP is no longer going to assign substantial devs to gameplay in eve it is a dead end game. I am not interested in spending my time and money on a dead end game.
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:14:00 - [73] Originally by: Ranger 1 As long as you realize that is simply your personal opinion and you have no facts or examples to back it up with, we're fine. And you do? You have presented none, all everyone is talking about in a forum like this is "opinion". My "opinion" is , however, informed by CCPs own financial statements. They are making a paper profit but will run out of cash on hand soon if they can't re-finance the loans (which they should have no problem doing of course). If they were working on one new game instead of 2, perhaps they wouldn't have such an urgent cash flow problem. Without that urgent cash flow problem, perhaps there thinking would have been clearer about how they have presented things and maybe the whole mess wouldn't have happened. Speculation, yes, but again, an opinion informed by information CCP (and others...) have made public. You offer no facts that would explained your stance (or why you somehow think my stance is wrong). ergo, you are simply a troll. I am a customer who doesn't want my EVE to be adversely affected, I am also a fan of CCP (they gave us EVE) and I am concerned with how they let these problems happen in the 1st place. I don't want a good (potentially great) game company to make some fatal mistake that leaves them out of business and me without (non-Star Trek/Wars)internet spaceships. Sorry if you can't comprehend that sir. Good day to you. walks off with air of superiority but NOT a monocle
Ealric Sorden	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:14:00 - [74] Edited by: Ealric Sorden on 01/07/2011 17:14:49 Yeah, it's really not that they're using funds gained from EVE to start other projects. That's standard business practice and is necessary. What's annoying is how they've overextended themselves with those funds and now are desperately grasping at straws. It's been said they've got an economics guru on staff for EVE - they might want to hire someone to take care of their finances outside the game.
Llambda Space Llama Industries	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:24:00 - [75] Edited by: Llambda on 01/07/2011 17:25:28 Originally by: Spookyjay Originally by: Llambda They're not using "our" money for other projects. They're using their money for other projects. As much as I loathe a lot of what CCP has done lately, I can't really fault them for that. You can and should. If your Employer went bankrupt and then you lost your job because the CEO's over invested in projects that would not see return for a long time instead of growing established incomes with investment then you would be ****ed. They're not my employer, and it's a poor analogy. In point of actual fact, CCPs obligations to me are limited to a month's access to the game server. That's it. No more. They have no obligation to devote significant funds to further development of the game. I may not like that they don't, and I may choose to take my disposable income elsewhere because of it, but it isn't a particularly angering point.
Darth Helmat	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:30:00 - [76] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. With a subscription game, I don't think its unreasonable for that 'new project' to be the next version of this game. Obviously they may want to do other projects and that would be fine if there wasn't a whole pile of stuff they should be doing with Eve and aren't. We've been fed very little useful content in 2 years, for 10m profit, asside from the P2W stuff, if I think there is another 2 years where the only significant expansions are really for Dust, fancy station graphics, and the opportunity to pay cash for increased range of monocles, then I'll be off. The core game needs love.
Kuronaga Kantian Principle	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:35:00 - [77] It is theoretically possible that one could expand there business entirely within the scope of a single game. By pumping fourth all of the companies resources into said game, they could in fact lure more subscribers and longer term customers with a noticeably higher quality product. Current MMO market trends are to cash in short term on unfinished flops that fail within the first six months, and steadily spin towards shutdown within a couple years. Judging by the amount of resources CCP has put into WoD however, I find it hard to believe this would be even remotely profitable.
Dasola Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:40:00 - [78] Funny thing is, its not your money anymore once it hits CCP¦s bankaccount. But i would also like to see atleast some of that money go back to development of EvEonline, not some WoD thats going to miss this vampires are fashionable season anyways. Its not like Eve¦s finished product, theres still tons of bugs to fix and gamemechanics to improve. Dust i can somehow understand since its tied to eve in some ways. Still waiting chance to fry those minions of mine from nuke from orbit option * Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises.
Kuronaga Kantian Principle	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:48:00 - [79] CCP can do anything they like with the money. I find it very unlikely that the "20 year plan" they have for eve is anywhere near real if they spread their resources out in such a self destructive manner, however.
Cutter Isaacson Minmatar Fearsome Engine	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:51:00 - [80] Why are people still complaining about what CCP use their money for? EVE has already had over ten years of money poured into it, the start up fund for which came from a board game that CCP produced before they were even called CCP. Using money made from one venture to fund others is the cornerstone of any decent business expansion. If the OP really doesn't like what CCP spend their money on, stop playing the game. Originally by: Not CCP Zinfandel CCP Zinfandel: ****ING SPACE MONOCLES!
Veritas Luxmea Rehn Industries	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. Dude, are you this oblivious? It's unbelievable... What makes you think you have any rights whatsoever lmao, you're a customer, not part of CCP's board or a shareholder. Please put yourself in your place and STFU. It's not "our" money son, it's their money as soon as it leaves our bank accounts. They can do whatever they want with it. If you dont like EVE (the product you are BUYING) then stop paying for it. But then, again, who gives a $hit?
Casarani	Posted - 2011.07.01 17:59:00 - [82] Oh my god, how unintelligent can some people be! You think the money you paid to Kelloggs for your box of cereal is going to be used SOLELY to make another box of that exact same cereal when there's so many others on the market? You think that Blizzard use WoW's subscription money to SOLELY develop WoW? No I doubt it, because they have Diablo III on the way as well as some new MMO in the future, not to mention they brought out Starcraft 2 recently. Just more examples... When you pay for a film at the cinema and there's no sequel, where do you think the money goes? Just into some non existential time warp space vacuum hole in the universe? No it's used for the company to develop new films. It's just the way of life. It's business. Why can't people just accept it.
Ripperljohn Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:00:00 - [83] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. -------------------------------------------------- "Look, we're basically on earth to ** and . So unless your job's to help people or **, it's not that important, so relax." -shi
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:08:00 - [84] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. Colored the only part you got right. Anything else is you had to say is butt hurt tantrum. Mr Epeen Oh I almost thought this was a fake Mrs Epeen..thank god he signed the post.
Ranger 1 Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:10:00 - [85] Originally by: Jenn aSide Originally by: Ranger 1 As long as you realize that is simply your personal opinion and you have no facts or examples to back it up with, we're fine. And you do? You have presented none, all everyone is talking about in a forum like this is "opinion". My "opinion" is , however, informed by CCPs own financial statements. They are making a paper profit but will run out of cash on hand soon if they can't re-finance the loans (which they should have no problem doing of course). If they were working on one new game instead of 2, perhaps they wouldn't have such an urgent cash flow problem. Without that urgent cash flow problem, perhaps there thinking would have been clearer about how they have presented things and maybe the whole mess wouldn't have happened. Speculation, yes, but again, an opinion informed by information CCP (and others...) have made public. You offer no facts that would explained your stance (or why you somehow think my stance is wrong). ergo, you are simply a troll. I am a customer who doesn't want my EVE to be adversely affected, I am also a fan of CCP (they gave us EVE) and I am concerned with how they let these problems happen in the 1st place. I don't want a good (potentially great) game company to make some fatal mistake that leaves them out of business and me without (non-Star Trek/Wars)internet spaceships. Sorry if you can't comprehend that sir. Good day to you. walks off with air of superiority but NOT a monocle Actually, my source is the same document you reference, which shows a healthy, expanding corporation. One that is in an excellent position to do what all corporations strive to do. That being, show yourselves to be financially stable enough for people to invest "their" money in, rather than put all of your own corporate assets on the line. It's not my fault you read a corporate financial statement like it's a household budget. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Sook Statta Hahndah	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:15:00 - [86] Originally by: Ripperljohn Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. This would have been the perfect response with which to end the thread if "argument" had been spelled correctly.
Zanzerschreck	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:17:00 - [87] Its not "our money" they are using to developed another game. Once we pay them its their money. You sound like a spoiled child. I think alot of these fetter stomping breath holding children have been playing the same game to long. Perhaps it is time for those of you who cry the forums till you turn blue to hit the unsubscribe button and start getting a rl.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:18:00 - [88] Originally by: Taius Pax Originally by: Mr Epeen Colored the only part you got right. Anything else is you had to say is butt hurt tantrum. Mr Epeen You look like Montel Williams. And where is your monocle? You look like you want to gently run your hands over my manly chest. Slowly lowering yourself to your knees as your breath quickens in anticipation of what's to come. Mr Epeen
Berta Fokker	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:27:00 - [89] R u the blueprint case used for making dimwits? I dont belive I m actually saying this to someone whos apprantly learnt to write but not much alese admittedly. You bought something from them and in that instance YOUR money became THEIR money. How hard can it be ...
centurion zulu Phantom Squad Atlas.	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:46:00 - [90] Once it leaves your hands, it's not your money anymore. CCP can do what they want with it. It's up to buyers to decide if this game is what they want to play the way CCP has designed it. The only answer is to quit giving them the money and go elswhere if CCP doesn't change their mind about some issue's bothering us. The 2nd thing to do is post in every gaming forum out their lies about MT., performance, gameplay etc. I remember years ago, they said they would not do that. That's about all we have.
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:48:00 - [91] When you run the world's most expensive subscription based MMO (it costs somebody $75/month to keep my accounts active) you should allocate sufficient development resources to it and you should respect your customers. CCP does neither and that's why they are failcascading. Want to buy a monocle?
Zyress	Posted - 2011.07.01 18:52:00 - [92] Edited by: Zyress on 01/07/2011 18:52:32 Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. In what imaginary business model do you put all of your income capital back into the product you got them out of. There are salaries, legal fees, facilities, advertising, and yes new product development. Maybe they don't see Eve as the vehicle they will base their entire careers on even if you see it as the last MMO you'll ever want to play.
Haven Wind	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:01:00 - [93] Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever?
Solosky	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:04:00 - [94] Instead of polishing and growing EVE these guys decided they can step into same river twice* and create +2 succesful games. But it doesn't work like that (example: Dragon Age 1 and 2). Sad situation. * even "better" - three times actually!
shoot me	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:05:00 - [95] Taken from Eve subscription FAQ "Your subscription fee gives you unlimited access to the EVE Online servers, website, and customer support. Unlike console games where you are purchasing the game as-is, the development of EVE as a persistent world is ongoing with frequent updates to add new features and improve your gameplay experience. Subscriptions allow us to continue making EVE bigger and better as well as paying our staff their monthly wages. CCP does not charge extra for game expansions. " This is the contract CCP make with their customers in exchange for the sub and have not honered for the past few years.
Zyress	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:06:00 - [96] Originally by: Jaehawn One thing you did get right we aren't shareholders in CCP we are investers which should give us a say in where our money goes. So maybe a few more people should take those business courses. Wrong, shareholders are investors, you are a customer. Yes your opinion matters but only if enough customers agree with you, and truthfully, if everyone started dropping their subscriptions to protest, they would likely just drop eve to concentrate on the newer stuff they think they can get more money out of.
Zen Sarum	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:06:00 - [97] I have no problems with them investing in other games as long as that investment is two way and EVE development is still a key priority. In addition some extended trial/ free stuff for eve players in WoD and Dust wouldn't be amiss.. After all they want us to play all this stuff and give them more cash... right? Or are they just after a wider market that they think doesn't really involve us.. sorry but guys that play eve play FPS and in general would RP if there was a purpose to it (as in eve.. except the limit is kill everyone take their stuff).
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:09:00 - [98] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jaehawn why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Because it's their money and they can do what they want with it, and because that's how the software industry works: you use the old project to (in part) pay for the new project. All fine and dandy as long as you don't leave your only source of revenue to rot by pumping all of your cash into new, unborn babies. One of the many reasons Eve is far from where it should be is CCP not keeping that balance in check.
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:18:00 - [99] Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me.
Jaroslav Unwanted	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:23:00 - [100] Does your employer giving you such questions : As what you gonna spent your earned money for. Or do you give questions to your employer like : What you gonna do with your profit i hope you gonna raise our pay and not gonna buy a new exotic car like last time !!! Chose one of those. If your answer is yes to any of those i salute you. Else : Who the **** you think you are .
Raven Aldura	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:24:00 - [101] Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. You don't have to explain. Your lack of knowledge of basic business is obvious enough already. Did you know that Sears holdings owns Lands End? How can you stand knowing that when you buy a sweater a portion goes to advertise a dishwasher somewhere?
Jaehawn	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:31:00 - [102] Lands End was already a successful company before Sears holdings bought them. Sears didn't create the company from scratch.
Raven Aldura	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:33:00 - [103] Originally by: Jaehawn Lands End was already a successful company before Sears holdings bought them. Sears didn't create the company from scratch. Irrelevant.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:37:00 - [104] Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen on 01/07/2011 19:37:52 Originally by: shoot me Taken from Eve subscription FAQ "Your subscription fee gives you unlimited access to the EVE Online servers, website, and customer support. Unlike console games where you are purchasing the game as-is, the development of EVE as a persistent world is ongoing with frequent updates to add new features and improve your gameplay experience. Subscriptions allow us to continue making EVE bigger and better as well as paying our staff their monthly wages. CCP does not charge extra for game expansions. " This is the contract CCP make with their customers in exchange for the sub and have not honered for the past few years. Actually sounds like they've been honoring it fine. All it says is, "Your subscription fee gives you unlimited access to the EVE Online servers, website, and customer support." They than go on to mention the development of EvE, but do not expressly say that you are paying specifically for personalized service.To the OP - EvE is not your game. It was not your idea, you are not a shareholder, you do not get to decide what they do with their profits, or what creative endeavor they want to do next. That is up to the people running the company. All we can do as players is decide whether we have fun when we play eve, and want to pay to play eve. I love the idea that just cause we pay them than they are our content slaves to produce only stuff we demand, but that model has little bearing on corporate reality.
Zyress	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:39:00 - [105] Originally by: Spookyjay Originally by: Llambda They're not using "our" money for other projects. They're using their money for other projects. As much as I loathe a lot of what CCP has done lately, I can't really fault them for that. You can and should. If your Employer went bankrupt and then you lost your job because the CEO's over invested in projects that would not see return for a long time instead of growing established incomes with investment then you would be **ed. No if my CEO makes bad business decisions then I'll likely be unemployed, not ed. I don't get **ed about things out of my control and especially not things that are none of my business. CCP's business isn't mine.
Alouette Bistrot	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:47:00 - [106] Once you pay, it's their money, you aren't loaning it to them, it's actually their money, earned by them, paid by you to them, they can do things with it without your consent. We pay to play Eve, we play Eve, we are not owed access to any other product since we haven't paid for those products. You can stop paying for Eve, you can stop playing Eve. You can make your own Eve and charge people to play it and let them tell you how to spend your money, audit your books, make hiring and firing decisions, steer development, whatever you want other people to do with your investment. Good luck with that, let me know how it goes and maybe I'll sign up and demand authority over your company.
Merovee Amarr Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor	Posted - 2011.07.01 19:49:00 - [107] Socialism this is whats wrong with this world. Users thinking they are owners thinking they are entitle to a say. You pay your money to pretend you are gods. As costumers we can influence with our purchases. But we are not owners, we have no chips in the pot. It makes me ill to think that street punks think that they have any control over a game that is cheap entertainment per hour of use. BUT, I don't like the part of the game CCP is thinking of bringing stuff into the game without going through the normal channels of production/transportation/risk to markets. Like all game updates, set long skills and wait to see how it will turn out. I will not quit, the story goes on. Sauron Of_Mordor
Mr Epeen It's All About Me	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:16:00 - [108] Originally by: Merovee Socialism this is whats wrong with this world. Users thinking they are owners thinking they are entitle to a say. You pay your money to pretend you are gods. As costumers we can influence with our purchases. But we are not owners, we have no chips in the pot. It makes me ill to think that street punks think that they have any control over a game that is cheap entertainment per hour of use. BUT, I don't like the part of the game CCP is thinking of bringing stuff into the game without going through the normal channels of production/transportation/risk to markets. Like all game updates, set long skills and wait to see how it will turn out. I will not quit, the story goes on. Once mom lets my new fan club have their internet hour, I fear they will be calling you one of my alts, Merovee. Apparently anyone with sense is a Mr Epeen alt. Not a bad thing, I guess. At least you'll know you have joined the ranks of the critical thinkers while they still wallow in a pool of butt hurt. I cannot apologize for their stupidity. I can just give you a friendly warning. Good thing is, their bedtime is pretty early. Mr Epeen
Zyress	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:18:00 - [109] Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. By all means always reevaluate the game and your spending priorities and if the game is worth the price to you. I don't know of any other game I would rather play even with Eve in the state it is in now, so I'm going no where soon. All you people wanting to take ownership of Eve's direction should stop paying your subscriptions save your money together and buy Eve, I'm sure they would sell it for the right price. Then you can decide what direction the game takes, what features are reworked added or enhanced etc.
Keno Range	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:33:00 - [110] Originally by: Jaehawn unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. don't worry - I believe WoD and Dust accounts will be free anyway, because they both will be Pay-To-Win games :(
Keno Range	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:36:00 - [111] Originally by: Merovee Socialism this is whats wrong with this world. go back to school and learn what socialism really means. kthxbai
Landlady	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:36:00 - [112] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. Ummm... if they only re-invested the money they earned form EVE back into EVE, rather than keeping some for themselves(to use for whatever they see fit) I'm pretty sure that would make them a charity :P [Don't want to be forum banned, so fill in this area with an insult aimed at the intellect of anyone who supports the OPs nonsense]
Bootleg Jack	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:38:00 - [113] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. "HEY!! I saw that!! I MARKED that 10 spot on the corner and you just passed it to those other developers " 10/10 4 Drama Queen
Samir Duran Xadi	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:43:00 - [114] Originally by: Raven Aldura Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. You don't have to explain. Your lack of knowledge of basic business is obvious enough already. Did you know that Sears holdings owns Lands End? How can you stand knowing that when you buy a sweater a portion goes to advertise a dishwasher somewhere? you and all the other idiots in this thread are missing the "subscription part". if i had to pay a monthly fee to wear that sweater they better give me a new design each time.
Ehdward	Posted - 2011.07.01 20:57:00 - [115] Making only one product and sticking with it for eternity is such a good business model... On opposite day!
Ehdward	Posted - 2011.07.01 21:01:00 - [116] Originally by: Samir Duran Xadi Originally by: Raven Aldura Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. You don't have to explain. Your lack of knowledge of basic business is obvious enough already. Did you know that Sears holdings owns Lands End? How can you stand knowing that when you buy a sweater a portion goes to advertise a dishwasher somewhere? you and all the other idiots in this thread are missing the "subscription part". if i had to pay a monthly fee to wear that sweater they better give me a new design each time. The difference between subscriptions and one time costs is a red herring. MMOs are an on going, changing (unless you are boring and mine in high sec all day) experience.
Anslo Disciples of Night Dominion of Darkness	Posted - 2011.07.01 21:04:00 - [117] You don't know how to run a business, do you?
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.01 21:12:00 - [118] Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. I wish I could be as stupid as you so i didn't have to smoke pot. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Kidara Malfasian	Posted - 2011.07.01 21:29:00 - [119] Originally by: Jaehawn We all pay to be able to play Eve, so why isn't anyone upset that they are taking that money to create another game? Dust 514 is still part of Eve but another project but World of Darkness is completely separate project which we shouldn't be paying for unless Eve pilots will all receive free WoD accounts since we paid for the game. All this MT drama is just a further tax on Eve pilots to pay for their new shiny toy while we cant get fixes to core problems in the game that have been broken for years or never designed properly. Now we are to believe that CCP can maintain 3 games at once. It's only your money as long as you have it. When it is their money they can do what they want. If I give you $20 bucks for mowing my lawn do I get a say in what you do with it? By your logic I should--I pay for you to mow my lawn. You better use it to buy gas or upgrade your f'ing mower. I don't want you buying weed and getting stoned or using it for internet ****. You pay for access, that's it. You get your access. If you want it to be YOUR money, KEEP IT IN YOUR WALLET.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2011.07.01 21:33:00 - [120] Originally by: shoot me Taken from Eve subscription FAQ "Your subscription fee gives you unlimited access to the EVE Online servers, website, and customer support. Unlike console games where you are purchasing the game as-is, the development of EVE as a persistent world is ongoing with frequent updates to add new features and improve your gameplay experience. Subscriptions allow us to continue making EVE bigger and better as well as paying our staff their monthly wages. CCP does not charge extra for game expansions. " This is the contract CCP make with their customers in exchange for the sub and have not honered for the past few years. And it was working up to apocrypha, good expansion = huge increase in amount of subscribers = bigger profit.
Murev Vorchilde Caldari End Game.	Posted - 2011.07.01 21:46:00 - [121] they not using my money on anything anymore instead i spent it on the magnificent twisted fate, now thats a vanity mt done right
Hakkar'al Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.01 21:55:00 - [122] o m g You started this thread because?
Raven Aldura	Posted - 2011.07.01 22:01:00 - [123] Originally by: Samir Duran Xadi Originally by: Raven Aldura Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. You don't have to explain. Your lack of knowledge of basic business is obvious enough already. Did you know that Sears holdings owns Lands End? How can you stand knowing that when you buy a sweater a portion goes to advertise a dishwasher somewhere? you and all the other idiots in this thread are missing the "subscription part". if i had to pay a monthly fee to wear that sweater they better give me a new design each time. I'll disregard the ad homonim and bad analogy to say that your subscription isn't a "going concern" Each time you purchase one month of access it is an individual transaction. It is $xx.xx dollars (Ç or ú or Ñ whatever) for one month of access.
San Severina Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.01 22:39:00 - [124] I got sick of it & removed my financial support. That's all I can do
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.01 23:28:00 - [125] Edited by: jackaloped on 01/07/2011 23:29:25 Originally by: Raven Aldura Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. You don't have to explain. Your lack of knowledge of basic business is obvious enough already. Did you know that Sears holdings owns Lands End? How can you stand knowing that when you buy a sweater a portion goes to advertise a dishwasher somewhere? You fail to see the difference between paying for a subscription and paying for a sweater. The key is when you are asking people to pay a subscription you are hoping they keep paying in the future. Not just the one time deal. Therefore you have to make them think they will get value for those future dollars you want them to give to you. Here is an analogy where the phone connection from a company = gameplay in eve. Its more like I pay for phone service for a month and say: ôhey the service is so bad I can't hear people over the phone.ö Phone company : Yes well we know it needs work but, well, why don't you buy a new ringtone for your phone? I respond: well I don't really need a new ringtone I can hear the ring fine but the connection needs work. Phone company: Well yes we hear your concerns and acknowledge the connection sucks but are not going to work on the connection we are too busy making new ringtones that you can buy at an extra cost. I respond: Your not ever going to spend any the money we subscribers pay to you, to improve the connection? Phone company: ItÆs no longer your money once you pay it, to us. (smug) It then becomes our to do with as we please. Now of course there is nothing illegal about the phone company here. They are indeed within their rights. But you are the one who lacks basic business sense if you think I will stay subscribed to their service.
Jaehawn	Posted - 2011.07.02 00:42:00 - [126] At least a few people get what I am talking about.
Uuali	Posted - 2011.07.02 00:50:00 - [127] Huh? We paid to play this game. CCP can do anything they want with the money. If they flop on better development with this game due to paying to much attention elsewhere that will be their undoing. But still if you paid them money for THIS game then and don't like it then it's either quit or hope they hear our demands.
Merovee Amarr Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor	Posted - 2011.07.02 00:52:00 - [128] Originally by: Keno Range Originally by: Merovee Socialism this is whats wrong with this world. go back to school and learn what socialism really means. kthxbai You mean this? ôWe are socialists, we are enemies of todayÆs capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.ö --AH Sauron Of_Mordor
Zyress	Posted - 2011.07.02 01:19:00 - [129] Originally by: jackaloped Edited by: jackaloped on 01/07/2011 23:29:25 Originally by: Raven Aldura Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. You don't have to explain. Your lack of knowledge of basic business is obvious enough already. Did you know that Sears holdings owns Lands End? How can you stand knowing that when you buy a sweater a portion goes to advertise a dishwasher somewhere? You fail to see the difference between paying for a subscription and paying for a sweater. The key is when you are asking people to pay a subscription you are hoping they keep paying in the future. Not just the one time deal. Therefore you have to make them think they will get value for those future dollars you want them to give to you. Here is an analogy where the phone connection from a company = gameplay in eve. Its more like I pay for phone service for a month and say: ôhey the service is so bad I can't hear people over the phone.ö Phone company : Yes well we know it needs work but, well, why don't you buy a new ringtone for your phone? I respond: well I don't really need a new ringtone I can hear the ring fine but the connection needs work. Phone company: Well yes we hear your concerns and acknowledge the connection sucks but are not going to work on the connection we are too busy making new ringtones that you can buy at an extra cost. I respond: Your not ever going to spend any the money we subscribers pay to you, to improve the connection? Phone company: ItÆs no longer your money once you pay it, to us. (smug) It then becomes our to do with as we please. Now of course there is nothing illegal about the phone company here. They are indeed within their rights. But you are the one who lacks basic business sense if you think I will stay subscribed to their service. And yet still you are here... sigh
Garreth Vlox Minmatar Obsidian Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.02 01:31:00 - [130] Originally by: Ivor Spacehopper Going by that logic though, no new game would be developed ever. Games in development have to be funded by something as they cannot generate their own income. he isn't saying you should never develop new games hes saying you shouldn't try to develop 2 games on top of the game you are already failing to maintain, while trying to come up with the cash to pay loans that will be due in just a few months. they are spending money on 3 different projects and a loan when they only have the money to to pay for 2 of those. apparently despite the fact that they like to brag about having economists on the payroll they seem to have no ****ing idea how to fiscally manage a company.
Garreth Vlox Minmatar Obsidian Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.02 01:33:00 - [131] Originally by: jackaloped Edited by: jackaloped on 01/07/2011 23:29:25 Originally by: Raven Aldura Originally by: jackaloped Originally by: Haven Wind Can I vote this for the most 'I dropped out of school at a young age' thread title ever? Unless we cancel our subscriptions ccp will be spending our money (that we now own) on things other than eve gameplay. So right now that money in your account is yours. If want to give your money to ccp so you can play a dead end abandoned game and they can develop dust, wod and incarnatransactions, go ahead. Thats not for me. You don't have to explain. Your lack of knowledge of basic business is obvious enough already. Did you know that Sears holdings owns Lands End? How can you stand knowing that when you buy a sweater a portion goes to advertise a dishwasher somewhere? You fail to see the difference between paying for a subscription and paying for a sweater. The key is when you are asking people to pay a subscription you are hoping they keep paying in the future. Not just the one time deal. Therefore you have to make them think they will get value for those future dollars you want them to give to you. Here is an analogy where the phone connection from a company = gameplay in eve. Its more like I pay for phone service for a month and say: ôhey the service is so bad I can't hear people over the phone.ö Phone company : Yes well we know it needs work but, well, why don't you buy a new ringtone for your phone? I respond: well I don't really need a new ringtone I can hear the ring fine but the connection needs work. Phone company: Well yes we hear your concerns and acknowledge the connection sucks but are not going to work on the connection we are too busy making new ringtones that you can buy at an extra cost. I respond: Your not ever going to spend any the money we subscribers pay to you, to improve the connection? Phone company: ItÆs no longer your money once you pay it, to us. (smug) It then becomes our to do with as we please. Now of course there is nothing illegal about the phone company here. They are indeed within their rights. But you are the one who lacks basic business sense if you think I will stay subscribed to their service. this ^^
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.07.02 03:21:00 - [132] Originally by: Zyress And yet still you are here... sigh Yes my alt is still here until august 14thor 19th something like that. I buy 6 month subscriptions. My 2 main subscriptions ran about 2 months ago. I really think eve could be great so I am posting in hopes that ccp will put more devs eve gameplay - inspace - features. But I suppose if you guys will keep paying ccp for a broken and half finished game they will never need to do that.

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