Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
37
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 11:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP is of course interested in developing the game further, but they also have to cover financial and economical demands. So all of patches, especially those which cant be understood clearly, will mostly cover this demands. The "why?" will most probably not be understood by most of us.
I dont see the point for nor against the patch - there might be something ahead that will come out, what we dont even know yet, and CP has done a good job so far, else none of us would play this game.
As heavy missiles are mostly used in PVP the impact wont be felt so dramatically by most of us. The range decrease is a bit nasty, true. In PVP there are so few long range fights since over 99% are just blobs with 20 toons sitting on a gate. You can do that bullshit with a wing of 5+ 2 million SP toons, and still will take down every ship up the size of carriers and dreadnoughts, and all these fights are clearly below 30 km range.
The players affected are those who use HM in PVE, and there it is easy to go to HAM or CM, as you can fly t4s solo with a HAC so easy that the question is only: Where was the challenge?
My second toon is on drones and HM/HAM in a HAC, my main on HAC with pulse lasers - i wont be changing anything, nor will i notice the nerf at all.
No impact on PVP at all, or easy to compensate by making another free toon for your blobs. Poor PVE with HM is all i can say: less range, less dmg, more time, less income. The rest of us will most probably /shrug. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 17:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Athena Themis wrote:I will probably panic sell my Tengu/Caldari toon.
Nice... |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
108
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 18:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Melina Lin wrote:Sergi Arro wrote:A 20% damage reduction is pretty significant. Yes it is and they will nerf the T3 hull too. They will nerf it hard. Quoting CCP Ytterbium: " Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line." Entertaining times ahead.
Og yes. When the answer to everything is 'Use a Tengu', something is out of whack. |
Drew Solaert
Wildcard Inc.
216
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 18:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
The numbers speak for themselves. It was needed. The Tengu and Drake have been the optimal (and almost only) choice for far far to long in PvE.
On a more positive note, I decided to do t2 HAM's before HML's :D I lied :o
|
Ishen Villone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 18:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
I will adjust fitting on my Tengu to cram on an extra ballistic control to offset a little of the DPS nerf. Range wont be an issue, it's still plenty long and my Tengu does like 700m/s on afterburner.
I might train up HAMs. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
991
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 19:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:FWIW, my CNR can fire cruise missiles over 200k km, so not sure why heavy missiles that can fly 100 km need to be nerfed.. just going to make it easier for fast ships to escape the range of missiles.. but I can understand that better than a damage nerf. They're already a low damage weapon. I wouldn't be surprised if cruise missiles were nerfed. Remember, they are only up to cruisers at the moment. |
Taoist Dragon
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 22:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Buffing other systems to match HML performance leads to huge power creep.
Slap on some hams and swap your painters for Tracking comps and you have decent range decent dps and decent damage application to most if not all ship classes.
GET OVER IT and adapt or die.......or rage quit and give me yer stuffz!! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Hav0cide
Shadow Proclamation.
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 10:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
1. Even with nerf range won't really be an issue if 63km is the base well rats in my exploration rarely go above 50km. 2. 500/600 DPS is plenty, get some patience for the extra couple of volleys. 3. Upgrade. I sense a rise in BCU prices on all officer/(maybe faction) BCU's as buying that extra DPS will be worth it for some. 4. Expecting more officer/faction tengus appearing on billboards. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
589
|
Posted - 2012.09.21 19:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
lrn2gunnery people... |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
543
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 18:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
BearJews wrote:I really don't understand the need to nerf Heavy Missiles. That system just BLOWs when you aint blobbing in Pvp.
And you hit the nail on the head without even trying.
The leet pvpers, the ones that are so leet the only way they could die was to be blobbed by drakes, called for the nerf.
And Arenanet listened.
Lol see what I did there? We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
|
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
111
|
Posted - 2012.09.23 21:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
The Magnetic Infusion Basin with a 25m3 /25mb/s light drone bay would be nice. |
Zukaris Ijonen
Galactic Federation of Light
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 05:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lev Arturis wrote:Flurk Hellbron wrote:It seems b*ll sh*t to me............. make the other systems better then? Also: every1 can train for whatever ship, also Tengu.
CCP always works in the wrong direction? It's exactly the right direction. You should also keep in mind that the hulls getting reworked too. A little off topic, but what are they doing to the hulls? |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
177
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 06:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
The thing I keep coming back to is:
For years and years the Drake was a joke. All the "Leet" PvP pilots would laugh at the Caldari pilots and force the new recruits into Minmatar or Amarr ships. And if you used the words 'DPS' and 'Drake' in the same sentance, it might get you kicked from fleet.
Then there started to be some quality pilots flying those Drakes.. And they actually kill stuff and don't die like they are supposed too.
My issue is:
The DPS hasn't changed. And the range means you can't point the enemy anyway. When did the Drake change from 'LOL Drake' to 'omfg nerf that beast' ?
They didn't make a Tier 3 Missile platform.
Fury missiles only go about 70- km
Are they going to kill the best ships that Caldari has to offer? |
Scopex81
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 06:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:The thing I keep coming back to is:
For years and years the Drake was a joke. All the "Leet" PvP pilots would laugh at the Caldari pilots and force the new recruits into Minmatar or Amarr ships. And if you used the words 'DPS' and 'Drake' in the same sentance, it might get you kicked from fleet.
Then there started to be some quality pilots flying those Drakes.. And they actually kill stuff and don't die like they are supposed too.
My issue is:
The DPS hasn't changed. And the range means you can't point the enemy anyway. When did the Drake change from 'LOL Drake' to 'omfg nerf that beast' ?
They didn't make a Tier 3 Missile platform.
Fury missiles only go about 70- km
Are they going to kill the best ships that Caldari has to offer?
your tears
|
Uwara
The Ares project
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 09:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Not to say balancing is a bad thing, well it is when CCP does it in their own way. Not fixing other stuff that needs fixing, but nerfing one so its bad as the rest.
There is ups and downs to all weapon systems, some dont use cap, some have instant dmg projection, instant reload, some fly far but can be outrun or destroyed. Yes missiles always hit for 100% of dmg (if defenders dont shoot them down), that is lowered by targets sig, and speed. You can never do a critt, you cant oneshot a frigate going your way like some other weapons can.
HMLs aren't all powerful, they only work "well" in masses.
Drake nerf since its a popular FOTM ship for fleet PVP is understandable. For years Drake was laughed as a crappy pvp ship, then somebody learns to use it and suddenly its a OP monster? Fine, makes sense to somebody I guess.
Tengu is OP? Well depends, for a ship that hull/subs costs about 600m (plus the fitting) and does around 600 dps without faction stuff, and pushing around 760 dps with 4 faction BCUS (+ T2 ammo) that are about 100-125m each, 730 without faction BCUs (but with +5 implants) and 640 with T2 kinetic ammo but no Faction BCus or implants. And still you can spend 10+ salvos on a elite frig orbiting you since dmg is so bad against small fast targets unless you take some precision ammo.
Loss of SP when you get killed, is what makes Strat.cruisers high risk-high reward. Now 20% dps loss on a ship with ammo nerf is substantial, going from 600 dps to around 480 makes the ship way more useful, and even with upcoming ship nerf its gonna go even lower. All this is kinetic ammo that Tengu has a bonus for, other ammo is already 25% lower dps. Even if CCP doesn't nerf Tengu, its DPS is horrible for a ship of this price-tag. Against other ships with high kinetic resists Tengu is bad at applying dps (even more is target is moving fast).
So tengu + pretty skilled char with +5 implants: Scourge fury - 720dps Mjolnir Fury - 570dps
Scourge T1 - 550dps Mjolnir T1 - 450dps
With 20% ammo nerf dps numbers go way down. If the ship gets nerfed, i am honestly afraid of numbers it will give.
And no, while i can fly Tengu with all L5s for dependent skills, i have graduated to Winmatar and ACs long time ago. I have skilled, stupidly i might say, Cruises to T2. While they can kill a BS and have range (for missions useless) and in PVP not used at all, killing one elite cruiser before downtime is a worthy achievement (rigs and TPs help), but then i might as well use the Golem. I also skilled drones to hell, had some fun with rattlesnake. So no, i am not Tengu dependent.
But a nerf this heavy shows how CCP cant think of another solution, -5% dmg is too low to make people quit Drake fleets, so lets make it 20%. And lets hope they dont field 20% more drakes. Nerf Tengu, like its a awesome pawnmobile for PvP and PvE. Only deployed in fleets if your pockets are insanely deep, and in PVE there are ships that outperform Tengu hands down.
Raven is already useless, CNR is barely used (at least while pilots find out how good vargur or mach is), Golem without TP juggle is useless, Nighthawk is already the worst command ship, Caracal and Cerberus are gonna be even worse now. Phoenix is the worst dread, its only good for POS bashing and nothing else.
Seeing CCP talking about HML nerfs + Drake and Tengu nerfs, without even mentioning the rest of Caldari lineup will need some heavy buffs, and not in summer expansion (or a winter one after that.. or SOON), but at the same time the nerfs go down. Shows they have no clue what they are doing, and this is a desperate move. |
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
49
|
Posted - 2012.09.24 09:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
For my Tengu, TC/TE in my extra mid/low for PvE. I'll probably stock up on T2 missiles since the penalties going away.
HAMs are just silly. |
Atasi Morebetter
Roughneck Industries IMPERIAL LEGI0N
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 20:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
If the goal is to bring Missiles in line with other weapons systems, will we see a change to the 10 second reload times and the small loads in the launchers as well? |
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
44
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 21:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Atasi Morebetter wrote:If the goal is to bring Missiles in line with other weapons systems, will we see a change to the 10 second reload times and the small loads in the launchers as well? Projectile weapons still take 10 seconds to reload or change ammo. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
681
|
Posted - 2012.09.25 22:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
This thread is so full of awesome. |
Hakaimono
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
15
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 04:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'm in the process of training for the Tengu. I'm pleased with the extra challenge to be honest. If it doesn'r pan out, I still have near max skills in Winmatar ships and Projectiles w/ supports. A Loki would just take me a couple weeks to train the subs to 5. |
|
Cazador 64
Nightmare Logistics
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 05:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
Being both of my characters are Caldari pilots . And both stuck with caldari when people used to laugh at me for using my drake.
When / If this happens I just will not continue to play eve and flat out quit unless there is something in place to counter act this big hit for Caldari like a buff to our other ships. Flame me all you want but I like my Caldari and I do not want to fly other ships at this time. If a nerf is so bad to the point that people say just use guns or fly an other ship that should tell you that it is to much of a nerf. Just goes to show CCP doesn't have a damn clue what they are doing. If this nerf happens they might as well remove Caldari from the game and offer a full SP refund and we can all fly mim or ammar. Without the drake/tengu and the caldari Pilot has nothing to offer.
CNR/SNR and raven ? they are jokes when compared to almost any other BS out there. Frigate class for caldari ? Also a joke We has cruisers but after this nerf they will be trash . We got BC for now but again after this nerf the Tengu and Drake will suck and other options will be much better.
The problem? Well the months and months spent training missiles that will not apply to Guns and the months and months it would take to get my guns skills / armor skills in place to fly something else. I would love to see how many people would complain if CCP basically forced players into missile boats when they have months of training into guns. And how many people would be writing a post just like this.
Like I said flame me or w/e but I think more people need to come out and tell CCP they will be willing to flat out Quit eve if this nerf happens. The ironic part is all the people that are going to call me a whiner for posting this but if it wasn't for the whiners the nerf wouldn't even be happening.
"For years Drake was laughed as a crappy pvp ship, then somebody learns to use it and suddenly its a OP monster?" This is the truest statement in this entire thread.
|
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
683
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 05:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cazador 64 wrote:CNR/SNR and raven ? they are jokes when compared to almost any other BS out there. Frigate class for caldari ? Also a joke We has cruisers but after this nerf they will be trash . We got BC for now but again after this nerf the Tengu and Drake will suck and other options will be much better.
Raven is getting a boost to damage application.
Frigates are far from jokes; the Harpy is currently ridiculous and the Merlin is now quite good. The Condor isn't bad either.
As for cruisers... nothing is really changing for the Blackbird or Falcon and the Rook is actually getting a boost.
The Drake will switch to HAMs, which is where it started as a PvP ship anyhow.
I'm just not seeing the issue here.
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1275
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 07:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
ITT people who think that Caldari is a missiles only race (tells just how much better missiles have been compared to turrets) and people who quit because their ships will only be as good as other ships in the future.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Retardo Khaan
Ad Astra Vexillum The Unthinkables
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 07:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
I think this sux hard. The dmg drop being biggest issue for me. I think i might sell my 755dps anom tengu and buy mach or carrier to replace it... Not to even mention cloaky exploring tengu.. Wonder if it can kill anything anymore...Too bad i have learned all tengu and hml skill to V. Maybe CCP want to reimburse those skills back to me
Also i think tengu is worth nothign after that nerf. Its just gonna be very expensive crap boat. So T3 prices should come down aswell imho. 200mil for fitted tengu and its ok.
And dont compare projectiles dps to missile dps unless you have tried sniping with missiles.. For example try to snipe interceptor with missiles that sits 100k out.. Nuff said.. Just my 2 cents... |
TriadSte
IronPig Sev3rance
112
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 07:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
I think that after the whole rage on the forums, It has forced CCP Fozzie to "tweak" his first ideas proposed to us. I do not think that the numbers we currently see will be final at all.
I do not think that HMLs will get a 20% DPS decrease. I also think that until we see Tracking Enhancers stats for missiles we cannot assume anything.
However may I add, tracking enhancers......missiles do not track so the name just seems stupid. It should be called something like a guidance disruptor.
Personally I have already worked out my changes when the new AI comes in. Yes it means I cannot take my domi into DED Plexs for wtfbbq sentry ownage and yes it means sites will take longer for me but I will stay alive with my new setup and maybe take an extra 5-10 minutes in site. |
Retardo Khaan
Ad Astra Vexillum The Unthinkables
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 08:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
Atasi Morebetter wrote:If the goal is to bring Missiles in line with other weapons systems, will we see a change to the 10 second reload times and the small loads in the launchers as well?
Then missiles should fly as fast as projectiles.. Also then i would want to see heavy missiles insta popping frigates similar than projectiles. As currently projectiles are OP on those areas.
|
Uwara
The Ares project
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 08:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Problem is, if people stayed quiet, CCP would think that they got a great idea and lets just run with it. Now they will nerf range/dps by 10% and people will have a hollow victory (if even that) The magnitude of the proposed changes is waaaay of balance, its too god-damned much. And all constructive criticism and facts get buried under trolling and tears.
Why dont they balance ACs? I havent used Tengu since I borrowed a Mach from a corpmate, lock any frigate from 74km and oneshot it, falloff is insane. Never mind that i shoot from insane distance and my dps should be crap, i still managed to clear rooms faster with mach then a tengu. Of 4 marauders, Vargur is insanely better then the rest (ACs take the cake), and there is no balancing there.
@Retardo Khaan I am skilling for a carrier on 2 accounts, at least untill new AI rapes any drone/fighter i deploy. What use are small drones or fighters if they are 50+km from a carrier and they get aggro, webbed and killed before you can do anything to help them?
I fear CCP still has tendency to overnerf something to hell, and then wait 6+ months to acknowledge the error and "SOON" to fix it.
|
Retardo Khaan
Ad Astra Vexillum The Unthinkables
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 08:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Uwara wrote:Not to say balancing is a bad thing, well it is when CCP does it in their own way.
Yes missiles always hit for 100% of dmg (if defenders dont shoot them down), that is lowered by targets sig, and speed. You can never do a critt, you cant oneshot a frigate going your way like some other weapons can.
Not quite so. Missiles do 100% damage only if target has big enough sig radius and is not moving too fast. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1275
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 09:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
Uwara wrote:Problem is, if people stayed quiet, CCP would think that they got a great idea and lets just run with it.
Real problem is if CCP starts to listen to L4 farmers who have been spoiled with overpowered ships and weapons for too long.
Quote:Why dont they balance ACs? I havent used Tengu since I borrowed a Mach from a corpmate, lock any frigate from 74km and oneshot it, falloff is insane. Never mind that i shoot from insane distance and my dps should be crap, i still managed to clear rooms faster with mach then a tengu. Of 4 marauders, Vargur is insanely better then the rest (ACs take the cake), and there is no balancing there.
You are comparing a cruiser and a pirate faction battleship? Ok.
Quote:On paper my CNR does 850 dps, in reality its almost impossible to kill elite cruisers without drones-TP-rigs. Worst skills i ever trained, complete waste of time. And if cruises and torpedos dont need a buff (a big one), why do HMLs need such a nerf.
All large weapons need help killing frigates. With the difference that most large weapons always miss orbiting frigates. All battleships rely on drones to clear frigates, this really should be no news to anyone familiar with this game.
Quote:@Retardo Khaan I am skilling for a carrier on 2 accounts, at least untill new AI rapes any drone/fighter i deploy. What use are small drones or fighters if they are 50+km from a carrier and they get aggro, webbed and killed before you can do anything to help them?
I fear CCP still has tendency to overnerf something to hell, and then wait 6+ months to acknowledge the error and "SOON" to fix it.
I understand it's hard for you to imagine a situation where you need to consider things like distance and order of targets and pay attention to things instead of snoozing thru the game, but this is already reality to many players.
Don't send light drones out to 50km and you'll be fine :)
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Travis117
APEX ARDENT COALITION Persona Non Gratis
20
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 11:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ill either sell my tengus and buy a high sec plexing Loki for the boring days, or turn them in just for recon work |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |