Typical trained into my tengu and quite comfortable in it, then read that heavy missiles are getting nerfed. As a casual player who mainly pve's is the nerf actually worth worrying about? if it is then what is the logical choice of ship to aim for next? i have partially trained gunnery skills and battleship skills.

HML will get 20% dps nerf and 25% range nerf.

They will still be one of the better long range med weapons.

Typical trained into my tengu and quite comfortable in it, then read that heavy missiles are getting nerfed. As a casual player who mainly pve's is the nerf actually worth worrying about? if it is then what is the logical choice of ship to aim for next? i have partially trained gunnery skills and battleship skills.

ok thanks for the replies, so as a backup what would be the best ship type to train up for now?

ok thanks for the replies, so as a backup what would be the best ship type to train up for now?

If you are aiming for a drake still go for it and train up HAMs.

Train Amarr or Gallente, CCP has hinted they will be destroying Minmatar after they've implemented the complete annihilation of Caldari.

already go my drake, am really looking for a complete change ie cross training into another race and different weapon types ie gun/turrets hence why i asked the experts :) i am mainly in amarr space have been thinking loki,machariel or something else, don't want to waste time training into a dead slug lol

Nothing Minmatar, CCP has hinted they'll obsolete them so they'll be just a sunk as missile users, CCP repeatedly refered to Beam Lasers as the new baseline for all things, so you might as well train a Amarrian ship.

Thats wierd, I can hear a kind of annoying whining noise.

Minmatar and Caldari will stillbe fine and perfectly viable as both pvp and pve ships. The Cane might not go quite so fast and track so well and the Drake may not hit an battleship ranges, but as battlecruisers go, they will still be fine.
Droneboats have been the kings of cheap pve ships since the dawn of time anyway.

Funnily enough I have flown almost entirely Minnie and Caldari boats for the last year and more, yet this round of changes doesnt worry me.

And when he says obsolete, he means they won't be OP anymore

Yep.

Interestingly, if you think about it, the nerf is actually going to be to the tanks of those boats. I say that because if people find the range and/or damage insufficient to meet their desires they can easily get them back up to pre-nerf levels or beyond by sacrificing a bit of tank for the newly buffed Tracking Computers/Enhancers.

Totally going to be fine...

25% less tank
20% less gank
25% less range

but a 11% bonus to range via a tracking enhancer is TOTALLY going to make up for it.

Typical trained into my tengu and quite comfortable in it, then read that heavy missiles are getting nerfed.

The sky isn't falling as some would want you to believe. HM boats just won't be as OP as they use to be when it comes to PvE. They will still however dominate over the other races when it comes to PVE for other reasons.

ok thanks for the replies, so as a backup what would be the best ship type to train up for now?

ok thanks for the replies, so as a backup what would be the best ship type to train up for now?

Caldari = Slowest ships + Least damage weapons = Awesome!

Far and away the best damage projection in the game. Reductiveness FTL.

You dont see most PvPers running around in Drakes

Not sure if serious.

Really? I can hardly see the Drake as being a viable pve boat with a 20% damage nerf. It wasn't all that great to begin with....

Did I misread those dev notes? You'd think the entire race was being removed.

I thought it was only HEAVY missiles getting nerfed... other than the TD part, but the OP here specifically said he PVE's.

I'd think HAM tengu would fine, if you like the tengu- sure, the range would be less but by the time these (currenly only proposed) changes go into effect HAMs might have even more damage seperation.

You may want to think about upsizing to battleship and using cruise missiles, especially if you have all the other various missile related skills trained. Would probably be a lot quicker than training lots of gun skills, plus would likely be similar to what you are already doing.... if you are doing C1/C2 then I realize you couldn't bring in a BS, but mission running should be fine.

Missiles are viable, yes.

HMs are being brought into line with the other medium sized long-range weapons. Which is to say, they're being made just as useless as medium beams, rails, and arty.
(Yes medium arty and rails do have some very niche application, but not as much as they should)

Totally going to be fine...

25% less tank
20% less gank
25% less range

but a 11% bonus to range via a tracking enhancer is TOTALLY going to make up for it.

Totally going to be fine...

25% less tank
20% less gank
25% less range

but a 11% bonus to range via a tracking enhancer is TOTALLY going to make up for it.

Viable? Yes

Good? No

Switch to projectiles for alpha.

Switch to laser for dps.

Or switch to HAMs, blasters or autocannons if you want to brawl.

Frankly, I don't think the CCP person responsible for this nerf has thought it through very well. Ignoring a lot of practical deficiencies associated with missiles (firewalls, travel time, damage application, outrunning missiles). I do agree with a range nerf for HMLs, though.

If you are outrunning missiles chances are long range medium turrets aren't going to do you any better. Also is firewalling really that common?

The problem with this is Cruise missiles are garbage.

ok thanks for the replies, so as a backup what would be the best ship type to train up for now?

I hope the Drake and Tengu (and others) are getting an extra slot for that.

ok thanks for the replies, so as a backup what would be the best ship type to train up for now?

They should have nerfed/changed individual ships, not a whole weapon system to calm down the use of Drakes and Tengus.

Put HAMs on it and some tracking enhancers.

Why do people call "25% range nerf"?
It's 25% flight time nerf and 8% flight speed buff, resulting in 19% range nerf. And that before factoring in improved missile dynamics CCP promised.
Just to be precise.

Typical trained into my tengu and quite comfortable in it, then read that heavy missiles are getting nerfed. As a casual player who mainly pve's is the nerf actually worth worrying about? if it is then what is the logical choice of ship to aim for next? i have partially trained gunnery skills and battleship skills.

The problem with this is Cruise missiles are garbage.

With the proposed TE/TC changes, Cruise missiles will be awesome for PvE.

Why do people call "25% range nerf"?
It's 25% flight time nerf and 8% flight speed buff, resulting in 19% range nerf. And that before factoring in improved missile dynamics CCP promised.
Just to be precise.

The drake is now a BC and not a poor mans battleship. OP success.

Glad I don't fly that crap....Feel sorry for the newer players though, now they will just have to wait to train up skills to fly anything decent....

But, but, but... his precious tank! How dare you ask him to use a mid slot for something other than the mwd and tank. Hang your head in shame!

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Tracking Enhancers are a low-slot module and thus would have zero effect on the tank of a Tengu.

The problem with this is Cruise missiles are garbage.

Less DPS is just as bad for them

This nerf means those in tengus running sites actually have to play the game rather than picking a target and hitting F1.

Put HAMs on your tengu, afterburner web and target painter and youll realise you were at nothing with the HMLs anyway.

Will it be less DPS though? I'm really not sure since I'm terrible at math. I really don't believe the difference between a 3x BCS, 1x TE HAM Tengu vs. 4x BCS HML Tengu will be that large. You'll lose some range, certainly, as well as some DPS application to smaller, elite ships, but against everything cruiser sized and above, I'm certain the HAM Tengu will be just as good or better than the current HML Tengu.

I personally think a 20-25% range nerf for HMLs and Cruise Missiles would be justified. Don't agree with the dmg nerf to HMLs, though. Cut off 25% range from HMLs and the HAMs become more appealing.

Start training HAMs now; prepare to replace your Rigor rigs with Hydraulic bay thrusters and Flares, consider how your fit will work with a tracking computer and maybe a tracking enhancer. By the time the change hits, you'll be able to modify your Tengu to a HAM configuration that will actually be a lot like your current HML config - maybe a little more raw DPS, maybe a little worse vs elite frigates, a few Km less range, but otherwise not much different at the end of the day.

EDIT: and with T2 Rage ammo, probably quite a bit more raw DPS.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Tracking Enhancers are a low-slot module and thus would have zero effect on the tank of a Tengu.

Marlona smoked it. Missionbears are most likely going to use TCs and spend more on tank than sacrifice any paper DPS.

Hmmm, more expensive mission tengus to hunt... mmmm

Protip: Tracking enhancers still aren't midslot items no matter how much you smoke.

As a side note, I know there is discussion of leaving Tracking Computers and Enhancers as they are and come up with similar modules that have the same effects as are being discussed but for missiles only.

While I very much think that diversity and the need to make hard decisions about your fit is a good thing in EVE, in this particular case I would like to see these modules affect both guns and missiles.

My reasoning is simple.

They would go a looong way toward making split weapons system boats viable. This is an extremely worthy goal.

Been playing this game since forever and i have seen firewalling pulled off precisely once. Its also something that works only against a pure missile fleet, and that such things exist tell you all you need to know.

That just shows you are pretty limited in your PvP experiance. In large nullsec battles, we always know what the other fleet is bringing. We firewall ALL THE TIME against Tengus.

For example: Firewalls

notice the little explosions in between our fleet and the tengus? Thats the firewall ships running the smarties.

Just had a peek in Jita, and the flogging of everyone's mission tengus has certainly commenced there.

Don't know if this answers your question.

CCP fail as they so often do.

If they wanted to "nerf" the Heavy Missile and the Drake they should have made them more expensive to make. What makes HM Drakes glory, isn't that they are effective but that they are cheap and effective. There are plenty of other cheap alternatives but they aren't as effective. So rather than making the HM Drake less effective, make it more expensive.

T2 Heavy Missile sells at 850K in Jita. No other T2 medium sells that cheap. Missiles were supposed to be expensive. That was the mantra back when EVE was on track. Now they cost less than bullets.

CCP fail as they so often do.

If they wanted to "nerf" the Heavy Missile and the Drake they should have made them more expensive to make. What makes HM Drakes glory, isn't that they are effective but that they are cheap and effective. There are plenty of other cheap alternatives but they aren't as effective. So rather than making the HM Drake less effective, make it more expensive.

T2 Heavy Missile sells at 850K in Jita. No other T2 medium sells that cheap. Missiles were supposed to be expensive. That was the mantra back when EVE was on track. Now they cost less than bullets.

We blob ships that cost 70 billion. Your idea would work just as well.

I love the super rifter blob. Not that I see them often, heh.

You guize use Ragnaroks?

What Can I say, we are terrible at this game. I even cyno'ed them in once using my mega