Of course this thread is going to be filled to max capacity with whiners and crybabys that live for nothing more than to irritate people and basically just be smarta****.

You mean it'll be full of people like you?

I suppose there won't be a single educated and proper response to this thread. Just more 12 yo shutins that don't have anything better to do than trash ppl in the forums and talk smack. Thanks guys for showing your ignorance. YAY EVE for attracting every ****** and ***hole in the gaming community.

Personally i see it as a type of exploit, and it is a completely unbalanced tactic.

I suppose there won't be a single educated and proper response to this thread. Just more 12 yo shutins that don't have anything better to do than trash ppl in the forums and talk smack. Thanks guys for showing your ignorance. YAY EVE for attracting every ****** and ***hole in the gaming community.

Ok... I'm sure I'm not the only one that is just sick to death of these ppl.

CCP... You are always talking about fixing and balancing things... well here's an idea for you to kick around...

Personally, i feel like there should be a way to scan down cloaked ships. Require maxed out scanning skills with a full rack of scanning implants and hardwires...Make it take some time, not an instant lock.

Don't make it easy or cheap to do, but make it possible.

It's one thing when you fly around in cloaked ships from system to system, but to park your ship in an enemy system and go AFK isn't combat, it's not gameplay, it's childish and stupid, and should really be changed.

Personally i see it as a type of exploit, and it is a completely unbalanced tactic.

Of course this thread is going to be filled to max capacity with whiners and crybabys that live for nothing more than to irritate people and basically just be smarta****, but personally i feel like there should be SOME kind of an option to make an offensive move towards an AFK cloaker.

Here's a idea.... Take the auto repeat off of the cloaks... Give them a 15 min cycle time that has to be reset.

Another idea...... Make cloaks eat cap, make a cap stable cloaked ship impossible.

UMADBRO?

LEAVE -A-, THEY CAN NOT PROTECT YOU

ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GO MINE ICE IN YOUR MACKINAWS CAUSE IM SICK OF LOOKING AT THEM SIT IN THAT POS DOING NOTHING AND SO ARE YOU

LMAO.... TEST? really? Youre one of the biggest fail alliances in eve. your entire group is made up of little girl cloakers that cant kill anybody. lol.

LMAO.... TEST? really? Youre one of the biggest fail alliances in eve. your entire group is made up of little girl cloakers that cant kill anybody. lol.

ok, honestly.... AFK cloakers are chicken ***** that dont have the backbone to do any proper PvP, and im gonna go out on a limb and say that the responders to this post are exactly the pilots im refering to. And no..... havnt been a victim in HED to that bunch of FAIL ass bombers that couldnt hit a titan hung up in an asteroid belt.

The only ones that need to grow a set are the little girls that sit in a SS cloaked for hours on end because they cant fit a ship that may actually kill someone. You guys dont want it fixed because then you would have no reason to play EVE since you cant really kill anyone.

Easy solution: automatically log of clients after 30 minutes of inactivity.
In my opinion when you're having an effect on the game and the game-play of others you should be behind your computer screen, playing the game. I find it totally unacceptable that you can log in a character and go to work or head to bed and still have an effect on the game.

Sitting cloaked in system is just a matter of play-style. You are there, observing, waiting for the target to drop his guard. It's quite a bit of work and patience actually to find that right moment to drop the hammer and do maximum damage.

People who do 90% of that work while not even being behind the computer-screen cheapen that effort.

I basically consider them bots, the computer is playing the game while the player is doing something else.

I basically consider them bots, the computer is playing the game while the player is doing something else.

Logic fallacy; the only thing they are "doing" is sitting there. The only effect they are having is what the other players are allowing them to have.

:word-shaped tears:

...so you have to act as if they're there

Emphasizing the important part of your post. Only you decide how they are going to impact your gameplay.

What kind of wordplay is that?

If your gameplay is mining and you do that with a hostile in system it's a very fast way to lose your ship. They are impacting my gameplay, either by making me dock up or shooting my ship.

You must be utterly and utterly stupid to not change your gameplay with a hostile in system.

And that's what I dislike about being able to make people change the way they play while not even being behind a computer-screen.

It's nice to list a lot of things you can do to be safer, but both of you are circling around my point: people shouldn't be able to have an impact on gameplay while not behind their computer screen.

I'll happily move to another system allign bladiebladiebla, but please let that be because the guy who is making me be behind his computer. Not out drinking with his friends.

Again, you are making the choice of how to react; you are circling our point.

You don't have a counterargument to why people should be able to effect gameplay while not being behind their computerscreen, that's why you try to make it into a discussion you can win.

Ask The Mittani about affecting gameplay without being logged into Eve.

Hell, ask me. I spend more time playing Jabber Online than Eve Online and I guarantee you it's had an effect on people's in-game experience.

Next point?

Edit: I do it from my phone too.

Ahhhhwww the old metagame argument: I can order others to shoot you while not even being online so it's ok to bot (afk cloaking is effectively botting) in eve. You must be a test member because last thing I heard test fully supports botting. Now I can see why you are so fighting to keep afk cloaking alive.

Ahhhhwww the old strawman argument: AFK cloaking! Hand waving! You bot lover!

AFK cloaking is an effective tactic to stop botting. After a few days the guy running the bots will get frustrated and set them to rat even though there are hostiles in local. Then we kill the bots.

So yeah, I support botting. They're nice targets.

Easy solution: automatically log of clients after 30 minutes of inactivity.

Love when nullbears cry about not being absolutely secure while in null, and do it while "cloaking" behind a forum alt so they again can assure their security. The only ones that complain about afk cloakers are null residents, even though you can do it everywhere. Do you think perhaps it's because only in null can you have sov? You expect a higher degree of security than anyone ever dreams of in high sec, and call them carebears?

I don't expect anything of that, just that people fly the ships, not computers.

Yes it is very effective. But I want it to get changed so people have to actually be behind their computer and can't keep it running when they're not online.

I suppose there won't be a single educated and proper response to this thread. Just more 12 yo shutins that don't have anything better to do than trash ppl in the forums and talk smack. Thanks guys for showing your ignorance. YAY EVE for attracting every ****** and ***hole in the gaming community.

.

WOW THIS OP IS FULL OF ORIGINAL IDEAS GUYS!

Sounds like he has gone through a lot of hardship because of cloakers! I'm so glad he is here to provide us with all the solutions we could need!

ok, honestly.... AFK cloakers are chicken ***** that dont have the backbone to do any proper PvP, and im gonna go out on a limb and say that the responders to this post are exactly the pilots im refering to. And no..... havnt been a victim in HED to that bunch of FAIL ass bombers that couldnt hit a titan hung up in an asteroid belt.

The only ones that need to grow a set are the little girls that sit in a SS cloaked for hours on end because they cant fit a ship that may actually kill someone. You guys dont want it fixed because then you would have no reason to play EVE since you cant really kill anyone.

lol'd
A bit off topic, but I found that amusing.


Just my thoughts on the matter:

Though this could be quite annoying, it just means you have to implement your own countermeasures.

First of all, cloaky ships usually have to sacrifice DPS and tank in order to gain the ability to cloak. The only ships capable of warping cloaked are frigate and cruiser class ships, and are easily countered by a same class ship (typically). By bringing a battlecruiser to protect you while you mine, you should be quite capable of defending yourself against cruisers with the superior damage and tank available to battlecruisers, and with the drones in the mining ship and the battlecruiser, you will have acceptable damage against frigates, easily enough to destroy them before they kill you. (T3's notwithstanding, those are... anomalous)

Secondly, you are in arguably one of the most dangerous places in space (or at least, it should be. The fact that it isn't considered so is, in my opinion, a ridiculous testament to mechanics and how the safety available to people in null should be... altered.) You should not be mining/ratting without a PvP fitted escort capable of assisting you should you be ganked by something capable of killing you before you kill it. In null, I believe this should be considered mandatory, or you should be prepared to lose your ship.

Thirdly, the ships that can't warp cloaked are vulnerable because they need to uncloak to warp, and will be visible on D-scan before they land, giving you time to warp out, if you're paying attention. And you will know their ship because they will have been visible, and you will know in advance which ships to bring to counter them.

I can see where it is annoying, but I don't see why you think you should be able to sit in null or low sec, mining or ratting with absolute safety, pretending that you don't have to worry about anything.

Your actions dictate how you respond to such a thing. It is your choice what to do, and there are a lot of things that could be done to reduce the risk, should someone cloak up in a safespot in system.

You know I'm just there to point the mackinaw and light a cyno right?

I suppose there won't be a single educated and proper response to this thread. Just more 12 yo shutins that don't have anything better to do than trash ppl in the forums and talk smack. Thanks guys for showing your ignorance. YAY EVE for attracting every ****** and ***hole in the gaming community.

It's nice to list a lot of things you can do to be safer, but both of you are circling around my point: people shouldn't be able to have an impact on gameplay while not behind their computer screen.

Good Sirs;

I am tired of just logging on to refill my training queue.
I haven't been able to spend much time on this great game and I don't know how to play much of it.
However, I would enjoy going afk while cloaked.

Can someone briefly explain to me the minimum set-up I need to do this (I don't want to pose a real threat and I won't be really gathering intel, I just want to cloak afk and be pretty sure I am having some effect)?

Can you also explain where I go to do this (I am in hek with my rifter right now).

I have plenty of money (I just buy Plex now that I understand there are two kinds).

your humble servent
SeaSaw

You know the easiest solution to this, afk anything and possibly even bots(for a bit) would be to just have an afk timer like most other games.
No action in say 15 minutes(no typing no movement no interaction) and suddenly "You have been disconnected"
Solves so many issues in the game
And it will have 0 zero effect on anyone actually playing


Why hasn't this been done?

You know the easiest solution to this, afk anything and possibly even bots(for a bit) would be to just have an afk timer like most other games.
No action in say 15 minutes(no typing no movement no interaction) and suddenly "You have been disconnected"
Solves so many issues in the game
And it will have 0 zero effect on anyone actually playing


Why hasn't this been done?

You know the easiest solution to this, afk anything and possibly even bots(for a bit) would be to just have an afk timer like most other games.
No action in say 15 minutes(no typing no movement no interaction) and suddenly "You have been disconnected"
Solves so many issues in the game
And it will have 0 zero effect on anyone actually playing


Why hasn't this been done?

moving your mouse is sufficient to disrupt the 15 minute count down.
If you are telling me you cant jiggle the mouse every 15 minutes, shame on you.
As for autopiloting I figure that would be a simple when autopilot =1 then timer set =99999

So that unless you manage to make an autopilot course that spans past dt you wont have an issue

Also it is called recon not sit outside and alt tab every once in a while to see what is maybe happening.
Consider it an incentive to do your job correctly.

That's just ridiculous, you'd expect someone in their spare time to spend say 5 hours (a significant enough period to actually see something) literally sat in front of a screen jiggling the mouse around so they're not disconnected, doing literally nothing else? For instance you play CoD you ignore your texts until you die. Would you ignore texts whilst sat cloaked in EVE and not moving?

Cause eve is a methodical game, not counter strike.

It's one thing when you fly around in cloaked ships from system to system, but to park your ship in an enemy system and go AFK isn't combat, it's not gameplay, it's childish and stupid, and should really be changed.

Good Sirs;

I am tired of just logging on to refill my training queue.
I haven't been able to spend much time on this great game and I don't know how to play much of it.
However, I would enjoy going afk while cloaked.

Can someone briefly explain to me the minimum set-up I need to do this (I don't want to pose a real threat and I won't be really gathering intel, I just want to cloak afk and be pretty sure I am having some effect)?

Can you also explain where I go to do this (I am in hek with my rifter right now).

I have plenty of money (I just buy Plex now that I understand there are two kinds).

your humble servent
SeaSaw

Which has rules against being afk and reaping rewards.
Excepting autopilot & mining

Move to HS.. you'll be safer there

You make any money afk cloaking? No? Guess your point is irrelevant then.

So if you make no money why do it? <-baited answer

You are obviously gaining something by freaking other people out.
If they stop making money, you have removed that amount from their war chest just as much as if you blew it up.
That is the missed point


Dude if you are in the can, what does it matter if the client shuts down???
You arent at it!
which is you know the whole point.
Also if its good enough for the navy to be done in under 7 minutes, its good enough for you.

There is no missed point. Your argument is crap. Eve is all about risk. Part of that risk is that there may be someone hunting you. Deal with it or go sit in high sec.

You know the easiest solution to this, afk anything and possibly even bots(for a bit) would be to just have an afk timer like most other games.
No action in say 15 minutes(no typing no movement no interaction) and suddenly "You have been disconnected"
Solves so many issues in the game
And it will have 0 zero effect on anyone actually playing


Why hasn't this been done?

Because the people who ACTUALLY ice mine would start bit***ing. We don't want angry miners flooding the boards.

At least I dont.....

Edit - Because mining ice takes forever.... I know, I tried, and regretted it. >.<

You do it because not everyone has a station to dock up to when the moment arises to go AFK.

I mean, seriously, why is this even a topic of discussion. Cloaked is cloaked. What does it matter if you are AFK or not.

And, because it is a pain in the a** having to reload the client just because you needed to step away for a moment.

In my opinion, AFK cloak is no different than AFK station tanking.

I just left a corp dedicated to killing miners, not a lot of fun.
As for mining I pointed out it was an acceptable afk activity and the 15 minutes could be moved to easily 45 minutes (max worst possible cycle time on mackinaw/retriever)

The real problem here is not that you are upset they are cloaked and afk. You are upset that they are preventing YOU from mining and afk, or ratting blind.

You don't have a counterargument to why people should be able to effect gameplay while not being behind their computerscreen, that's why you try to make it into a discussion you can win.

Spam D-scan.

last time i tried D-Scan didn't show any cloaked ships warping around..... Cloaked ships just appeared from nowhere on top of the gate and jumped!

Need to recheck it today.... Maybe we finally got ability to scan cloaked ships with probes?

Botting Null bears hate afk cloakers, wow did that required a thread?

UR funny.

As far as I am aware, there is only one ship that can warp cloaked and lock immediately, which is stealth bombers. Everything else will have a 5 second targetting delay. So they will either have to decloak mid warp to be ready when they land, or they will decloak and hopefully try to bump.

Either way, if you are staying aligned etc you have a pretty darn good chance of getting out, either by catching the decloak in warp or with that 5 sec window when they decloak on grid.

I swear i never realized null bears were such a whiny bunch.

God forbid you went somewhere with no local. You wouldn't be able to leave the POS shields

So you are saying CCP POSes mobile?
I think that was actually discussed in the minutes.

After reading this discussion (and many previous in other threads), I have to agree, that being AFK while cloaked simply to make players uncomfortable is misuse of game mechanics.

After reading this discussion (and many previous in other threads), I have to agree, that being AFK while cloaked simply to make players uncomfortable is misuse of game mechanics.

Solution to this could be new AFK icon for players in local. Once player is not moving for lets say 15 minutes, he will get this new AFK mark on his portrait in local and he gets AFK flag. When he gets back, he will have to click 'I am back' button. Once he clicks the button, AFK icon will disapeare and he will have 30s countdown before he can move with his ship. Ofc if his cloak drops for any other reason (bumped or somthing), there will be no countdown.

We dont have to change cloak mechanics. It works great. What we need is implementation of AFK mechanics for cloaked ships.

The point you are missing (and I admittedly missed for a long time myself), is that CCP has stated repeatedly that it is NOT against the game rules. There are a ton of things that go on that misuse or exploit the game mechanics, and they may or ....

~Z

The real problem here is not that you are upset they are cloaked and afk. You are upset that they are preventing YOU from mining and afk, or ratting blind.

UR funny.

As far as I am aware, there is only one ship that can warp cloaked and lock immediately, which is stealth bombers. Everything else will have a 5 second targetting delay. So they will either have to decloak mid warp to be ready when they land, or they will decloak and hopefully try to bump.

Either way, if you are staying aligned etc you have a pretty darn good chance of getting out, either by catching the decloak in warp or with that 5 sec window when they decloak on grid.

I swear i never realized null bears were such a whiny bunch.

God forbid you went somewhere with no local. You wouldn't be able to leave the POS shields

I can only repeat myself:

AFK cloaking exist because people use local and run to POS, short of super-idiocy that is completely safe: idiot-proof.

The best way to deal with passive cloaking is to give an incentive to active non-cloaking options. That means removing the idiot-proof by adressing things like local and hiding in POS at first notion of threat.

There's meant to be risk making ISK in nullsec: risk-reward. Industrial ships are meant to be targets: content.

So, those of you who dislike AFK cloaking:
How do you propose we go about it to make it easier to catch people in deep nullsec PvE without using a cloak?

If there are alternatives, you will see AFK cloaking losing popularity.

The problem with most complaints about AFK cloaking is that they come from people who want a risk-free PvE environment in nullsec, and you are not supposed to have that. AFK cloaking exist because current mechanics and the practise they bring about make any form of active hunting inefficient. That's why they attempt to affect you by passive gameplay, it's a reflection of your actions, your fears and your practise. You've made sure they have no other alternatives, and it's quite amusing that any "real threat" is so scarce that you complain about "potential threat", or "percieved threat".

You do understand that means it is currently "too safe" to PvE in nullsec, right? Not the other way around. Which makes the complaints about AFK cloaking from a PvE standpoint so laughable to the many players who respond to you in jeer. The same goes for any backwards reasoning regarding to PvP-them to push them out, as it assumes you can deny them targets until you can run them off at will - without any risk. It's still a risk-adversive perspective from a PvE standpoint.

You are supposed to provide them with targets, so if you dislike AFK cloaking: find a better way to provide targets.

obviously you never heard of a Covert Ops Cyno.

ok, honestly.... AFK cloakers are chicken ***** that dont have the backbone to do any proper PvP, and im gonna go out on a limb and say that the responders to this post are exactly the pilots im refering to. And no..... havnt been a victim in HED to that bunch of FAIL ass bombers that couldnt hit a titan hung up in an asteroid belt.

The only ones that need to grow a set are the little girls that sit in a SS cloaked for hours on end because they cant fit a ship that may actually kill someone. You guys dont want it fixed because then you would have no reason to play EVE since you cant really kill anyone.

I can only repeat myself:

AFK cloaking exist because people use local and run to POS, short of super-idiocy that is completely safe: idiot-proof.

The best way to deal with passive cloaking is to give an incentive to active non-cloaking options. That means removing the idiot-proof by adressing things like local and hiding in POS at first notion of threat.

There's meant to be risk making ISK in nullsec: risk-reward. Industrial ships are meant to be targets: content.

So, those of you who dislike AFK cloaking:
How do you propose we go about it to make it easier to catch people in deep nullsec PvE without using a cloak?

If there are alternatives, you will see AFK cloaking losing popularity.

The problem with most complaints about AFK cloaking is that they come from people who want a risk-free PvE environment in nullsec, and you are not supposed to have that. AFK cloaking exist because current mechanics and the practise they bring about make any form of active hunting inefficient. That's why they attempt to affect you by passive gameplay, it's a reflection of your actions, your fears and your practise. You've made sure they have no other alternatives, and it's quite amusing that any "real threat" is so scarce that you complain about "potential threat", or "percieved threat".

You do understand that means it is currently "too safe" to PvE in nullsec, right? Not the other way around. Which makes the complaints about AFK cloaking from a PvE standpoint so laughable to the many players who respond to you in jeer. The same goes for any backwards reasoning regarding to PvP-them to push them out, as it assumes you can deny them targets until you can run them off at will - without any risk. It's still a risk-adversive perspective from a PvE standpoint.

You are supposed to provide them with targets, so if you dislike AFK cloaking: find a better way to provide targets.

Compared to other null sec 'professions' AFK cloaking is way too easy.

Well said, but ... As I said before, cloaking is not a problem. It's perfectly valid game mechanics how to catch and ambush players in null sec who are not carefull enough. Somehow I don't see it OK, when players who are not in game for couple of hours can affect its life in way AFK cloakers do. And we all know they do it simply because of effects they have on players minds.

If PVEing in null sec is almost without risks today, what is AFK cloaking? You can choose when to attack, you play dirty games with player minds. Simply let players get used to them, pick a target (yes, you can pick the target) and attack. If you are smart, you pick target you can solo easily. Or you have cyno ready and you have an agreement to get back after 10 hours of AFK, light the cyno at agreed time and let others do your pew pew job. And you do all of this, when you know players are used to you because you were not in game for couple of hours. Where is risk in this?

It's not an exploit, nor is it unbalanced. It's an account being sustained month after month, and not generating any income or anything else productive.

Exactly, i just don't think you realize that you do it yourself.

You are also "AFK cloaking", you just don't necessarily use a cloak.

"Appearing AFK" hidden under cloak have two effects on any other players appearing AFK in POS or elsewhere in hiding: to either keep them hiding or get players used to you so they stop going AFK and start playing again. Mark those words well: the underline is the key. It doesn't necessarily have any of those two effects on any player active in space, it assumes the player already is hiding - if they're not hiding the cloaker will never have to appear AFK to do his hunting and they are never affected by the psychological component.

Do you get it now? It's a result of targets appearing AFK themselves. It doesn't exist if people don't hide with relative safety and from there pretend to be AFK to make you go away. It works your own system: They go seemingly AFK because you go seemingly AFK. It's pointless if targets remain in space, or return to space in spontaneous and timely fashion (ie., without denying and delaying while amassing a risk-free fleet, not to fight, merely as a show of force to make sure they can't fight). It all reverts back to the actions of the players they affect: they play your game, you started it.

If you ever read Marlona Sky's definition of "Blobbing" that's exactly it: it's not a question of fighting when you have more numbers for relative safety, it's a question of not fighting when you don't have relative safety. It's all about not taking risks.

Once again, if you dislike AFK cloaking, propose how to make yourself a target. In POS shields or station dock you are not a target. If you are never outside POS shields or station dock when there are neutrals in system, you are never a neutral target (which is why awoxing, or infiltrating for blue-on-blue, exist as well). We need ships in space with neutrals nearby to have any interaction between neutrals - and we need it in a timely fashion. Appearing AFK wether it's under cloak or in POS is the same thing. You could equally say that appearing AFK in POS is psychological warfare on PvP.

Stop appearing AFK in POS if you dislike people appearing AFK under cloak.

You are right about one thing: it's never really been about cloaking. It's about people wanting more homecourt advantage, and reserving the rights to go AFK or appear so for themselves, so people don't come visit or interact. That's not balance.

I dont think you can compare it. What effect has AFK player at POS to system residents? Absolutly non as its mostly in his own (blue) system. As defender of system he plays same role and represents same threat as other players in system. And as attacker? There is no such situation as you can't sit at pos in enemy territory.

So what effect has afk player docked in station or at pos? Almost non compared to red afk cloaker.

Oh and saying that players go AFK cloaked cause they dont have valid targets is an absurd argument.

UR funny.

As far as I am aware, there is only one ship that can warp cloaked and lock immediately, which is stealth bombers. Everything else will have a 5 second targetting delay. So they will either have to decloak mid warp to be ready when they land, or they will decloak and hopefully try to bump.

Either way, if you are staying aligned etc you have a pretty darn good chance of getting out, either by catching the decloak in warp or with that 5 sec window when they decloak on grid.

I swear i never realized null bears were such a whiny bunch.

God forbid you went somewhere with no local. You wouldn't be able to leave the POS shields

Say goodbye /.../ to your friend who left for bio for a minute.

[...

say goodbye to your drones. Or to your friend who left for bio for a minute.

Wh -> empire:
you know: when you leave your cave the world become bigger, stranger and more danger
Everyone starts from fear or dreamed monsters.... and one day you leave home and see: there is real dangers int the world

Ok... I'm sure I'm not the only one that is just sick to death of these ppl.

CCP... You are always talking about fixing and balancing things... well here's an idea for you to kick around...

Personally, i feel like there should be a way to scan down cloaked ships. Require maxed out scanning skills with a full rack of scanning implants and hardwires...Make it take some time, not an instant lock.

Don't make it easy or cheap to do, but make it possible.

It's one thing when you fly around in cloaked ships from system to system, but to park your ship in an enemy system and go AFK isn't combat, it's not gameplay, it's childish and stupid, and should really be changed.

Personally i see it as a type of exploit, and it is a completely unbalanced tactic.

Of course this thread is going to be filled to max capacity with whiners and crybabys that live for nothing more than to irritate people and basically just be smarta****, but personally i feel like there should be SOME kind of an option to make an offensive move towards an AFK cloaker.

Here's a idea.... Take the auto repeat off of the cloaks... Give them a 15 min cycle time that has to be reset.

Another idea...... Make cloaks eat cap, make a cap stable cloaked ship impossible.

OMG NOT THE DRONES. Hopefully thats like what, a couple minutes of ratting to replace them? Are you seriously going to use the argument that you might have to leave your drones behind?

As to your friend, he's an idiot if he goes to take a bio during that time. A cloaker in system shouldn't make you have to run and hide, but you should still use some common sense.

Wh -> empire:
you know: when you leave your cave the world become bigger, stranger and more danger
Everyone starts from fear or dreamed monsters.... and one day you leave home and see: there is real dangers int the world

Huh? Is this supposed to even make sense?

I trawled my way through this thread as many others did *cough* and I didn't really see any mention of there just being a COUNTER to cloaking. I'll take a leap and assume most things in Eve have a counter of some sort.

Ultimatey I'm pro cloaking, but it has to be said that players perceive this sometimes non-existent threat from a cloaked ship and it can't be denied that it stops people from playing. I agree this is great for the metagame but is it great in the long run for null and getting people out to null? I say NO.

Fly safe. o7

[quote=Stigman Zuwadza]If you don't want that risk, go run level 4s in high sec with the rest of us.

Getting people out to nul is probably one if the greatest powers of a cloak.

As for counters, there are 2, proximity and vigilance.

The risk should be also there for someone being cloaked in a system 23/7. Where's his risk?

If the cloaker remains cloaked he:

Generates no value (ISK) on his/her own behalf.

Does NOTHING.

After all, when cloaked, you cannot:
Target
Shoot
Jettison
Eject
Bump
Mine
Rat
etc.


0 risk for 0 activity.

If the cloaker remains cloaked he:

Generates no value (ISK) on his/her own behalf.

Does NOTHING.

....but to park your ship in an enemy system and go AFK isn't combat, it's not gameplay, it's childish and stupid

lol... show me instant shop in 0.0 where you can buy anything?

hm.... few pages above people argued about "15 minutes afk -> disconnect" because of bio and stuff....

because all you said is about wormholes and can't be used outside

The risk should be also there for someone being cloaked in a system 23/7. Where's his risk?

The risk for the cloaker

1st getting into destination system bubble camps and sucker bubble camps with decloaking wrecks

2nd when cloaker decloaks to agress how does cloaker know you dont have your own cloaky alt/m8 cloaked off you

This is encountered by all and any that fly in null so this risk is equal to all except maybe nullified ships.



The thread is about AFK cloakers, I'll assume this cloaker decloaking is not AFK and thus actively playing which no-one has a problem with. Also, if there was a counter to cloaking the cloaker could use it to locate other cloaked cloakers cloaking in a cloak.

Fly safe. o7

1st Just becouse camps bubbles are same risk to everyone els doesnt take the fact it a risk to the cloaky

2nd if thet dont decloak whats the problem? Ow i get it its your system how dare they be there??

The risk should be also there for someone being cloaked in a system 23/7. Where's his risk?

The same place risk for whoever is docked in stations or sit behind POS shields 23/7 is.

AFK still remain the same regardless of what tool you utilize to enable it.

The issue here is still that people with POS and stations want to remove that ability from people without them.

They want to make their homes safer, while their homes are already too safe (that is one of the sweeping ideological issues with post-Apocrypha/Dominion EVE).

It is the same arguments you see from people in Empire when they want to restrict ganks or other activities that impose on their safety, which they consider their "right". It's not meant to be a "right", it's meant to be apart of a balanced experience. You can debate the balance but you should examine your own perspective and be careful not to slip over into an established "right" (ie., it's my home, i should be safe) because that is incorrect and contrary to the core principles of this game. Empire is not safer because of it's "right" to be so, it's a question of balance concerns and player introduction.

Most of the people who complain about the perils of empire are the ones who have overextended their stay. Same as those of you who complain about the perils of nullsec.

You are missing one very important point and thats requirements that has to be fulfilled before you can sit afk in statio or POS. And to do so it takes a lot of time and effort like:

• you have to have sov space or be blue to someone who has SOV space

• Someone has to build the station or set up a POS

• Someone has to refuel POS and Station

It is the final price to be able to dock in station and be safe. And yes, EVE is multiplayer game, when many has to cooperate to acomplish this.

Now how much effort do AFK cloakers have to make to have (as you said) same rights as docked players?

The issue is that your ilk...

[quote=Noisrevbus]This activity is conducted risk free once the cloaker is in their safe. Folks ramble on about risk, this activity carries no risk. It needs a counter. Disrupting activities is GOOD for the meta game, I totally agree with this, whoever, it should not be a risk free activity.

The mechanic should not change but your addition to this argument is terrible... A gun sitting in a room does NOTHING! It makes no money, can't hurt anyone, and is otherwise worthless. People don't base decisions off ACTUAL threat alone. One must also consider potential threat which is what people here are complaining about.

Vexx

..want something in our toolset that can counter a cloaker whos sole intention is to cloak up in a safe for a prolonged duration to disrupt the activities of the system they're in.

This activity is conducted risk free once the cloaker is in their safe. Folks ramble on about risk, this activity carries no risk. It needs a counter. Disrupting activities is GOOD for the meta game, I totally agree with this, however, it should not be a risk free activity.

Some say bait them out, the reality is that the cloaker is there with the intention of sitting cloaked in their safe, they are unbaitable, trapping them is not going to happen.

It would seem that any mention of being able to combat this situation is met with responses relating to the poster complaining. I don't see many people talking about why this activity should be risk free when so many talk about activities in null not being risk free.

Fly safe. o7

If their sole intention is to stay cloaked, either move to a new system yourself or don't worry about them. You can counter them by not letting them impact your game play. In your scenario, it is your own avoidance of action that grants the cloaker power.

And we have suggested ways to combat them, be vigilent and team up. You have yet to say why this isn't a counter, but rather seem to ignore thus issue.

...either move to a new system yourself or don't worry about them.

And we have suggested ways to combat them, be vigilent and team up. You have yet to say why this isn't a counter, but rather seem to ignore thus issue.

Yes, few pilots can do it. But should all system residents move just because there is one hotdropper afk and will be back in hour, two or ten?

If cloaky is in the system. You can get defense fleet ready and wait till he strikes or leave. You can plan some reaction. But if he is in the system for 10 hours, who will keep defense fleet up for so long? And who will force players to stay in fleet with pvp ships ready for 10 hours?

You have to be playing to be ready to counter afk cloaky while afk cloaky is ... well, afk. Without chance to find him or without knowing if he is afk or not, this is onesided benefit. On defenders side it is about constant risk, while on attackers side its about single moment of risk.

The afk cloakers actions generate no reward.

Your reaction to him, your decision to let him alter your game play is what reduces your reward. It's like someone calling you names. Laugh it off, ignore the problem, and the name calling stops. Give in, cry, show the namecaller that they did effect you, the name calling will continue.

In other words, if they have no desire other than to stay cloaked, what threat are they? You counter them by going about your business. They waste their time, and you don't have to worry at all.

So really, since this a meta game action on the part of the AFK cloaker, the solution is a meta game action of not playing their game. Ignore them, they are no threat. if you show them that their action causes no impact, you've won. They can sit afk cloaked as long as they want, it won't matter.

So convince me that there is a reward to the afk cloaker.

I'll continue to be the haiduc in the mountains, the chetnik in the forest, the VC in the tunnels, the U boat under your ship.

Dear players of known space...


I see the magnitude of your sorrow...


...and after a carefull evaluation of the problem you seem to have with afk cloakers...


...I would like to invite you to try the life in unknown-space....


We don't have that problem


Best regards

I would like to invite you to try the life in unknown-space.

..want something in our toolset that can counter a cloaker whos sole intention is to cloak up in a safe for a prolonged duration to disrupt the activities of the system they're in.

This activity is conducted risk free once the cloaker is in their safe. Folks ramble on about risk, this activity carries no risk. It needs a counter. Disrupting activities is GOOD for the meta game, I totally agree with this, however, it should not be a risk free activity.

Some say bait them out, the reality is that the cloaker is there with the intention of sitting cloaked in their safe, they are unbaitable, trapping them is not going to happen.

It would seem that any mention of being able to combat this situation is met with responses relating to the poster complaining. I don't see many people talking about why this activity should be risk free when so many talk about activities in null not being risk free.

Fly safe. o7

[A. The player is AFK, him being cloaked is no different than you being cloaked or AFK in POS or station.

B. The player only appear to be AFK, you bait or trap him when he strikes. Until he strikes his impact is none.[/b]

A PvP player on an offensive roam also deal with these realities. They have to employ tricks to catch people.

If they can't cloak while you can still dock, you will always dock upon their entry and then stay AFK.

Stigman, it's just an endless repetition of the argument you don't engage in.

A. The player is AFK, him being cloaked is no different than you being cloaked or AFK in POS or station.

B. The player only appear to be AFK, you bait or trap him when he strikes. Until he strikes his impact is none.

C. If you are paralyzed by the fear of their presence: setup a redundancy to deal with your fear. Get escorts.

A PvP player on an offensive roam also deal with these realities. They have to employ tricks to catch people.

Hence, if you want to remove the AFK/anti-AFK cloak - suggest alternatives: how should they deal with appearant AFK?
(ie., the act of going to dock when hostiles enter local and appear to be AFK).

You can't take just take their tricks away and keep your own. Then you endorse a malbalance.

..want something in our toolset that can counter a cloaker whos sole intention is to cloak up in a safe for a prolonged duration to disrupt the activities of the system they're in.

Few million worth investment. As a station AFKer you need sov space, station, docking right etc. Lot of ISK and politics to be able to do that. So no, I don't see any reason why you as an enemy in enemy territory should have this ability for free.

Ofc he would do that. System with station is not about solo pvp and most of those null sec players know it.. Sov warfare always was and will be about group pvp.

.. ganking

... gate camping

... market PVP

... shooting someone

I have no objections to people AFK'ing, whether they be cloaked, in a POS or in a station. However, if I was in hostile territory and there was no benefit to me sitting in a system cloaked I would just log off. This means that there is a benefit. Gaining this benefit has no risk. I'd like there to be some risk, how does one generate risk, a counter of some sort maybe, ultimately I couldn't answer that question but if you want some suggestions I'm sure you could hunt down one of the many threads on the topic.

Fly safe. o7

This meets the "no risk, no ISK" tenet which everyone on the forums seems to agree on.

AFK cloaking is the most efficient terror weapon...

AFK cloaking is all about economic warfare, and psychological warfare...

It starves you frothy-mouthed nullbears of income...

When a dude tried decloaking, he died instantly...

I completely agree with the OP.

He seems a very sensible person and a chill dude.

I think we can fix afk cloaking quite easily. Of course it means these exploiters will lose their gameplay but its not real pvp so it doesn't count.


The fix is simple: We remove local.

Finally those of us who are not interested in pvp will no longer have to worry about people afk cloaking in our system.

I completely agree with the OP.

He seems a very sensible person and a chill dude.

I think we can fix afk cloaking quite easily. Of course it means these exploiters will lose their gameplay but its not real pvp so it doesn't count.


The fix is simple: We remove local.

Finally those of us who are not interested in pvp will no longer have to worry about people afk cloaking in our system.

Kinda like gate camping? Or station games?

First, you have no idea if they're AFK or not. Period. You're just pissed because they've put you off your routine. That's good gameplay.

Second, they could very well be surveilling the "enemy system", which is good gameplay.

Third, they could be watching for specific patterns of troop movements, which is good gameplay.

But the rules should NEVER let someone actually do some thinking in this game!! Oh, noes!!!

Just wondering...how is flagging someone as AFK going to help? If they are cloaked at a belt or a plex, watching, but not doing anything, then is the AFK tag going to make locals feel safer so they carry on ratting or whatever? Seems the AFK tag might actually help lure locals into a false sense of security.