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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2005.03.03 18:13:00 -
[61]
got 4 words reply to this tread: Cry me a river
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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capt
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Posted - 2005.03.03 18:14:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Lallante
Its so insanely shortsighted.
HOW can CCP consider a change of this magnitude without taking ship bonus's, Tracking, slot layouts and all the rest into account.
I find it nearly impossible to imagine an Apoc loadout using lasers that could break a close range BSs tank OR track it when it gets close with these changes.
I guess you just forgot how CCP left the projectile situation for more than 6 months, screwing every large projectile artillery user in the game?
But I guess it's in peoples nature to only whine when "their" little sacred position is affected. People are selfish...... Don't expect any support from any projectile player as we had little from all the ammar BS pilots who just loved being UBER....
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.03.03 18:17:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Alowishus on 03/03/2005 18:18:01
Neat, CCP are back to square one. We've come full circle since I started playing. Projectiles are the ub3rest, the Apoc has ZERO insentive to use lasers over projectiles and Amarrians are going to whine in sixty seven threads per day.
Stupidity is not learning from your mistakes.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. $30 a month for stupid insanity. Awesome. I'm glad these people have my CC numbers.
Sure the lasers could have used some adjustment, maybe, but nerfing them to dust? CCP honestly has the time to nerf and boost projectiles/lasers every six months with so many other problems? GREAT! Glad to know what my money is paying for.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Mule Lopeer
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Posted - 2005.03.03 18:26:00 -
[64]
Okay, so pulse lasers went from 'blaster-like damage and beam-like range' to blaster like damage, and ~30% less range. Boohoo?
You want to trade that capacitor bonus for a laser damage bonus? I bet you don't. Drop a hardener and put another heatsink II on if the Apocs damage output isn't enough for you, it's still by far the best tank in the game, hands down.
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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2005.03.03 18:44:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Weirda
Weirda was on SISI testing the changes last night. If there were even 1/3 of the ppl on SisI as there are whining on this thread - maybe it would be worth a listen. All Weirda see is people who have misunderstood a majority of what was posted about changes. 
FFS
- there is no "nerf" on tachs (except a few points of damage at long range) - megapulse optimal was cut by 29% (not the crystals, which actually go farther now with radio)
- Be Weirda's guest if you want to use the 1400s on you apoc again, you'll find that you doing much less damage then you would with lasers
Weirda specialize in Amarr and Matari ships/weapons - and will continue to do so. The advantages of lasers are so countless - will not even go into that, suffice to say that short range projectiles are more fun... 
Also - try going out with a full setup of dual heavy pulse... they track VERY well and are even easier to support a good tank with... With the range nerf to megapulse - you may be pleasantly surprised...
Either way Lallante - Weirda sad that you (and so many others) are so upset, but it just seem so reactionary that it hard to take seriously. There were 6 people on SiSi last night... 6... vs the 600 that are whining all over the forums about these changes... 
you really are weird.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.03.03 19:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Xavier Cardde
you really are weird.
Weirda uses best Inspector Clouseau voice:
"But of course...."
...and by the way - it better to have no beans in you bag then to have no bag for you beans... 
--
Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.03.03 19:47:00 -
[67]
Lall - the amarr aren't damage dealers, they're tanks. When / if CCP ever give the other races the ability to tank like the apoc can then we can consider giving the apoc / amarr dmg bonuses (tho the ROF bonus is damage, really) but, until then, this seems pretty balanced from what I've seen.
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Tisti
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Posted - 2005.03.03 19:59:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Xavier Cardde
THE RAVEN, that god awful thing outclasses amarr at any range under 50km.
nerf the missiles if we are soooooo nerf happy.
Now theres a problem...
Maybe it can... BUT.. not under 50km.. maybe under 20kms since whats stoping the geddon from WARPING (yes.. WARP). And a geddon can EASILY kill a raven over 60kms BEFORE it CAN WARP if its tank isnt right..
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Moneta
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Posted - 2005.03.03 20:09:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Moneta on 03/03/2005 20:15:45
Originally by: Lallante
-30% less dmg and lower range?
Yes of course thats a problem.
You dont get Long range guns and them use them at short range you know.
Lallante, you ahvent been paying attention.
Where does it say tachs do 30% less damage ?
PULSES GOT 30% less OPTIMAL, the GUNS, not the crystals.
The one and ONLY damage change was to crystals.
The second longest range crystal now has the damage and nearly the range of the previous radio crystal, while the radio crystal got slightly less damage but 10% extra optimal.
Other then that, not a single thing changed about beams and their long range usability.
Calm down already and read ffs
tachs on teh apoc still pwn, which in itself is nuts since its not a damage dealer but he, lets not whine ok ?
Originally by: Aneu Angellus
Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post.
Aneu
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.03.03 20:17:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Selim on 03/03/2005 20:20:58
Edited by: Selim on 03/03/2005 20:19:52
Radio gets 1.6 range now, iron and carbonized lead get 1.5.
The fact that lasers have their damage built in, and don't even need damage bonuses to be equal, means the amarr can get free bonuses like 5% extra cap and whatnot.
I don't see how lasers are useless at all. If anything they're still a bit too powerful compared to their ease of fitting.
EM damage is best against tanks. And best against shields so that balances it out against armor.
Tachyons are still going to rule, and now they'll even outrange 1400's, the supposed long-range kings, while still doing great damage. Go figure.
Lasers have SO MANY ADVANTAGES it makes me sick. Like weirda said, go onto Sisi and try it out for yourself, lasers are still crazy. Zealot is still crazy, apoc is still crazy, etc.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.03.03 20:19:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Xavier Cardde
you really are weird.
Weirda is weird but she always posts thoughtfully in a friendly and non-advisarial way. Most people in these forums could probably learn from that.
Alowishus is a Weirda fanboy 
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
GsDaddy
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Posted - 2005.03.03 21:44:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Xavier Cardde
THE RAVEN, that god awful thing outclasses amarr at any range under 50km.
Maybe if the Amarr pilot were a STAIN, that would be true.
The rest of Eve doesn't put newbies who don't know how to warp into battleships.
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Val Amon
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Posted - 2005.03.03 21:44:00 -
[73]
Kinda wish I would've built 2 more ravens instead of the 6 apocs I have in different regions and choke points now.
_
_
How many pilots does it take to wire a Flux Capacitor?
3, 1 to wire it and 2 to talk about how the old one was better. |
Dred 'Morte
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Posted - 2005.03.03 22:00:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
OMGWTFBBQ! Amarr might no longer be the best at every range in every fight ! 'Sploit !
/sarcasm.
caldari, missiles...
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Kinsy
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Posted - 2005.03.03 22:03:00 -
[75]
Right, ive actually tried these out against some NPCs. Heres some facts for a change.
My skills aren't uber great. I have Sharpshooter III, Large Energy III, Surgical Strike III. Currently that translates to:-
Radio - 37km Optimal
Infrared - 25km Optimal
Ultraviolet - 20km Optimal
Xray - 17km Optimal
Multifreq - 11km Optimal.
A Mega Modulated laser has:-
Radio - 44km
Infrared - 31km
Ultraviolet - 24km
Xray - 20km
Multifreq - 13km
Problems:-
1. The falloff after optimal is horrendous on every crystal.
2. Hits at 11km and below are difficult to obtain.
Therefore, either reduce the optimal to -20% previous, OR increase the tracking so the Mega Pulse is a bit more blaster-like. Id much prefer the first one, 30% is too much and i feel like CCP are trying to turn them into a poor man's blaster.
Good things:-
1. Damage still stays the same.
2. Tracking hasn't been nerfed!
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CLONE 9
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Posted - 2005.03.03 22:53:00 -
[76]
Quote:
Lasers arnt meant to be the 'i win' button.
No Hakera - they are supposed to be the 'you lose' button
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Crux Australis
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Posted - 2005.03.03 22:54:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kinsy
Radio - 37km Optimal
Originally by: Kinsy
increase the tracking so the Mega Pulse is a bit more blaster-like
Lol?
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.03.03 22:56:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kinsy
Right, ive actually tried these out against some NPCs. Heres some facts for a change.
My skills aren't uber great. I have Sharpshooter III, Large Energy III, Surgical Strike III. Currently that translates to:-
Radio - 37km Optimal
Infrared - 25km Optimal
Ultraviolet - 20km Optimal
Xray - 17km Optimal
Multifreq - 11km Optimal.
A Mega Modulated laser has:-
Radio - 44km
Infrared - 31km
Ultraviolet - 24km
Xray - 20km
Multifreq - 13km
Problems:-
1. The falloff after optimal is horrendous on every crystal.
2. Hits at 11km and below are difficult to obtain.
Therefore, either reduce the optimal to -20% previous, OR increase the tracking so the Mega Pulse is a bit more blaster-like. Id much prefer the first one, 30% is too much and i feel like CCP are trying to turn them into a poor man's blaster.
Good things:-
1. Damage still stays the same.
2. Tracking hasn't been nerfed!
show me a heavy blaster that can hit for decent dmg at 20km and ill give ur megapulse the extra tracking
Blasters are the close range gun, along with autocannons. MP arent close range, they are mid range, therefor they have decent dmg, mid range, reasonable tracking. Blasters are close range, therefor they (SHOULD) have excellent dmg, crap range, excellent tracking. If you gave MP the tracking of blasters, there would be no point in blasters (like there isnt atm, how many people fly a blasterthron these days?)
as far as i can tell, beams and tachs are relatively untouched by the ammo changes, and have nothing to do with the megapulse change at all so i dont really understand what this thread is about
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Kinsy
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Posted - 2005.03.04 00:22:00 -
[79]
Okay, another one.
Where does the Dual Heavy Pulse laser now sit in all this?
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Skelator
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Posted - 2005.03.04 00:32:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Xavier Cardde
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
OMGWTFBBQ! Amarr might no longer be the best at every range in every fight ! 'Sploit !
/sarcasm.
THE RAVEN, that god awful thing outclasses amarr at any range under 50km.
nerf the missiles if we are soooooo nerf happy.
How many Shots per laser ccan you get in lets say 12 seconds?
How long does it take your fired energy beam to hit its target.. Its instantaneous.
Missles and torp have Travel time and can be OUTRUN
.
Can I outrun your energy weapon after it has been fired?
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Niki Silver
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Posted - 2005.03.04 00:47:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Lallante
Ravens are much more of a problem.
Guess which ship is next in line 
That is going to be sooo sweet
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Niki Silver
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Posted - 2005.03.04 00:57:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Alowishus
Edited by: Alowishus on 03/03/2005 18:18:01
Neat, CCP are back to square one. We've come full circle since I started playing. Projectiles are the ub3rest, the Apoc has ZERO insentive to use lasers over projectiles and Amarrians are going to whine in sixty seven threads per day.
Stupidity is not learning from your mistakes.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. $30 a month for stupid insanity. Awesome. I'm glad these people have my CC numbers.
Sure the lasers could have used some adjustment, maybe, but nerfing them to dust? CCP honestly has the time to nerf and boost projectiles/lasers every six months with so many other problems? GREAT! Glad to know what my money is paying for.
"Mabye"? Sorry for such a harsh statement but anyone who fails to recognize that mega pulses needed a balance are being ignorant and refusing to admit the simple truth. And "nerfed into dust" Erm, not even close to dust. Still quite useful in fact. Why do poeple say everything is now useless when it gets balanced? So before change - it's overpowered uber god mode, but after change it's totally worthless? I don't think so.
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TWD
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Posted - 2005.03.04 01:38:00 -
[83]
For a short range weapon, the Mega Pulse still has a very nice range and good enough tracking. You could use a webby to make sure the gun hits.
When looking at the tabel posted by Hammerhead you'll see that Radio crystals actually give 62.5% range bonus, while the top range of hybrid/projectile ammo is 50%
The Microwave crystal gives 50% range bonus, and deals the same damage as the top ranged hybrid/projectile ammo.
So far Hammerhead has done a VERY good job in balancing and explains it very clear. |
Lallante
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:01:00 -
[84]
Having tested the changes.
Multifreq MegaPulse has optimal of 12km.
At 12km, it cant track a BS moving perpendicular.
Thats really good....honest.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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KamiCrazy
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:09:00 -
[85]
Edited by: KamiCrazy on 04/03/2005 02:11:34
With the current stats, my ion blasters with anti matter can't hit anything at its optimal either. Whats your point?
EDIT: and lets not even get to neutron blasters... lol... comparing ion's to megapulse.
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Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:13:00 -
[86]
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: Question2
Beams were never overpowered to begin with?Thats funny,then why do their stats ingame say they have superior stats to howitzers/rails?Funny that.
The idea was that most Amarr ships don't get an RoF or Damage bonus. Most, not all. So for example Mega Beams or Tachs, which may have better base stats compared to 1400's, are roughly equivalent when mount on an Apoc (no bonuses) versus 1400's on a Tempest (bonuses).
Which lacks balance cause the proj uses no cap.
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Shirei
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:19:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Redwolf
Which lacks balance cause the proj uses no cap.
Which is compensated by the fact that minmatar ships generally have less cap than laser-using ones.
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Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:20:00 -
[88]
Originally by: CLONE 9
Quote:
Lasers arnt meant to be the 'i win' button.
No Hakera - they are supposed to be the 'you lose' button
They still will be.
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Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:24:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: Redwolf
Which lacks balance cause the proj uses no cap.
Which is compensated by the fact that minmatar ships generally have less cap than laser-using ones.
Have you got any clue how 50-60 cap per shot impacts on amarrs much bigger cap reserves?
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GFLTorque
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:32:00 -
[90]
Also note that Microwave, Infrared, and Radio did exactly the same damage for approximately 66% of the total range of Radio. Herein, this rendered the MW and IF useless. Why use them if the Radio did the same damage BUT also went even further out distance wise.
Hammerheads changes seem extremely well thought out imo. The megapulse is going from being the all around energy weapon of choice to actually one that fits a niche. I can understand the comments about tracking, but as was told often to Projectile users, just use some mid slots for tracking modules.
These projected changes seem on the money from what I've tested so far. They bring the gun class in line. No longer will the best cap utilizer, best armour tank, have the best medium range weapon with excellent tracking. These changes seem appropriate and measured imo.
4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
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