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Shirei
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:35:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Redwolf
Have you got any clue how 50-60 cap per shot impacts on amarrs much bigger cap reserves?
Thanks for asking, but until recently I have mostly been PvPing in Amarr BS and never had any significant problems with running out of cap due to the guns' cap consumption (except in isolated scenarios like shooting at a conquerable station for ages).
Yes, of course, you won't be able to sustain both a decent tank and all lasers forever without gimping your set-up by fitting nothing but cap rechargers/relays in the spare slots, but you have the same situation (not being able to sustain a tank forever) on all other BS as well - including Caldari and Minmatar ships which use no cap for weapons.
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Jadunandan
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Posted - 2005.03.04 02:41:00 -
[92]
Seriously. Stop b i t c h i n g.
Aww, my ship isn't doing the highest damage anymore! Who cares about the other advantages?
Please, just stop. I'll do the same, so noone tell me to stfu.
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Question2
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Posted - 2005.03.04 03:09:00 -
[93]
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: Question2
Beams were never overpowered to begin with?Thats funny,then why do their stats ingame say they have superior stats to howitzers/rails?Funny that.
The idea was that most Amarr ships don't get an RoF or Damage bonus. Most, not all. So for example Mega Beams or Tachs, which may have better base stats compared to 1400's, are roughly equivalent when mount on an Apoc (no bonuses) versus 1400's on a Tempest (bonuses).
You mean the idea was that amaar weapons got the FREE 25% at ship level 5 damage/rof/tracking/whatever bonuses AND cap use/armor tanking bonuses on top of that?
Why does this not sound balanced to me?
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.03.04 03:31:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Lallante
Having tested the changes.
Multifreq MegaPulse has optimal of 12km.
At 12km, it cant track a BS moving perpendicular.
Thats really good....honest.
You had a webber plugged in for that range right ? now that they are 15k range.
Most blaster and autocannon pilots use webbers to hit decently at there ranges too.
Amarr do not get one less bonus -
Lasers have higher cap use and a cap bonus on the amarr ships to make them unattractive on other races ships.
Projectiles have reduced damage and a damage bonus on the ships to make them unattractive on other races ships.
Blasters have the shortest range and need there damage bonus from gallente ships to be the best at said shortest range, it can be argued they also need the tracking bonus to hit at said range.
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.03.04 03:42:00 -
[95]
What about the poor little crusader and these upcoming changes? How come you can fit rails/howitzers on other ceptors, but you cant fit beams of the crusader? You might be able to squeeze them on if you fit 2 MAPC, then your setup cant be cap mantainable even with the best cap skills. With these upcoming changes to the pulse CCP should tweak amarr ships.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.03.04 04:17:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Selim on 04/03/2005 04:17:28
Megapulse with 12km optimal with multifrequency, yay. Now they can still hit further than me with short range and still hit very far with radio.
Try fitting a web or stop getting close. Nothing else can hit jack **** when something is moving perpendicular to it, why should megapulse?
By the way, whats wrong with pulse on a crusader after the changes? Works fine for me.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.03.04 04:37:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Blind Fear
What about the poor little crusader and these upcoming changes? How come you can fit rails/howitzers on other ceptors, but you cant fit beams of the crusader? You might be able to squeeze them on if you fit 2 MAPC, then your setup cant be cap mantainable even with the best cap skills. With these upcoming changes to the pulse CCP should tweak amarr ships.
Yeah, the crusader takes it in the shorts thanks to the lower range on pulses and the absurd fitting for a frigate sized gun (18 grid? damn). The malediction should still be quite effective.
I think making the beams easier to fit would be a decent idea. Drop the damage mod to 2.5, up the range to 12k and give it a fitting more like 12mw. Of course, those are numbers that I'm pulling out of my ass, so they probably need modification to not be horribly under or over-powered.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.03.04 04:40:00 -
[98]
The beams are too hard to fit, but I think the pulse are still quite effective. In any event, making the friggy beams easier to fit would stop alot of the whining going on around here, and it would also let me actually do something at high ranges on a vengeance.
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Phades
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Posted - 2005.03.04 04:44:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Phades on 04/03/2005 05:29:15
Nah on the smaller end you basically end up with the same argument that megathron pilots have with neutrons, the ship is left with only one available and somewhat effective option that lacks in comparison to the other races most effective weaponry. It will end up being relegated to the dual light beam laser in this instance assuming the changes stay as they are.
*Begins getting psyched up about doing ~5 damage per laser using radio crysals on dual beams to unhardened armor at around 24km. Yeah i know my skills arent the best. 
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.03.04 08:17:00 -
[100]
Originally by: GFLTorque
Hammerheads changes seem extremely well thought out imo. The megapulse is going from being the all around energy weapon of choice to actually one that fits a niche. I can understand the comments about tracking, but as was told often to Projectile users, just use some mid slots for tracking modules. 
Only ship that should be using MP anyhow is the geddon, and part of the "standard" fit is a tracking comp, or two 
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Inquisitor Nyxos
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Posted - 2005.03.04 10:35:00 -
[101]
I think you guys need to chill, there's a test server, go there and prove CCP wrong. Problem solved.
(\_/)
(X.x) This is dead bunny.It has been intercepted and shot down in Amarr space by patrolling Navy forces.Its soul has been cast to hell and the remains will serve as snack for the emperor. |
Caya
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Posted - 2005.03.04 10:47:00 -
[102]
i would never belive i agreed with Lallante. But i have to now. :-) The lack of amarr ship bonus really hurts and should be counted in discussions.
What i dont agree... its not death of those ships, there is always setup which can win the battle.
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Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.03.04 10:52:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 04/03/2005 10:55:23
Originally by: Lallante
Having tested the changes.
Multifreq MegaPulse has optimal of 12km.
At 12km, it cant track a BS moving perpendicular.
Thats really good....honest.
What speed? What modules was the other ship using, were tracking disrupters in use?
Saying a Megapulse can't hit a Battleship moving perpendicular at 12km is nonsense
Base Tracking:
0.027 rads/sec
no skills: 324m/sec, 50% hit chance
lvl4 Motion prediction: 389 m/sec, 50% hit chance
lvl4 motion prediction + 1 TechI tracking computer: 467 m/sec, 50% hit chance
lvl5 motion prediction +1 Tech II tracking computer: 526.5m/sec, 50 % hit chance
In short, megapulses will hit a BS at 12km even if the oppposing ship is using an Afterburner you will still hit more than 50% with 1 tracking computer fitted.
So far your threads have consisted of ôThe sky is falling!ö It is not, lasers are going to be fine.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.03.04 11:04:00 -
[104]
Is there ever going to be something done to make the armageddon harder to fit? Nobody can deny that a gankageddon is incredibly easy to fit, powergrid and CPU wise. No other tier one, or even tier two's for the most part, can fit a full rack of the best damaging guns available. Amarr battleships are way too easy to fit powergrid wise compared to other races, and CPU is usually not a problem, either.
I'd like 6 800mms and 2 siege launchers with a decent tank please.
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Captain Rod
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Posted - 2005.03.04 11:53:00 -
[105]
too right APOC could fit 8 x heavy neutron blaster IIs no probs. Would need little or no power boosting to fit a tank on top.
Don't worry about the changes to MP ladies. Test it. I bet geddons still pwn.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.03.04 12:00:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Selim
Is there ever going to be something done to make the armageddon harder to fit? Nobody can deny that a gankageddon is incredibly easy to fit, powergrid and CPU wise. No other tier one, or even tier two's for the most part, can fit a full rack of the best damaging guns available. Amarr battleships are way too easy to fit powergrid wise compared to other races, and CPU is usually not a problem, either.
I'd like 6 800mms and 2 siege launchers with a decent tank please.
A gank'a'geddon may be easy to fit, but with the new lower ranges of MP its not going to be nearly as effective. It'll still work of course, but its not going to be the only answer anymore. Fitting an Arma with a moderate tank and anything other MP, if for example you want more range now, is hard. And yah, CPU can be a real problem on geddons.
Anyhow, no changes to the Arma. It deals nice damage, and now if you want to hit things outside 10-15km you've got to use lesser damaging crystals. Take that into account with the reduced thermal and increased EM damage of the crystals and IMO I think we're going to see everything a bit more balanced.
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Deros
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Posted - 2005.03.04 12:16:00 -
[107]
imo the changes appear to be good, the responses from those who have actually gone and test them seem positive, those with lasers simply are used to being able to pwn anything that they want.
Deros
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2005.03.04 12:40:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Deros
imo the changes appear to be good, the responses from those who have actually gone and test them seem positive, those with lasers simply are used to being able to pwn anything that they want.
Deros
Can't blame the ugly bastards for roleplaying their race well.
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Riggwelter
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Posted - 2005.03.04 12:55:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Lallante
In PvP there is no such balance. NOONE runs out of cap in fleet combat, you run out of structure or you run out of ammo, NEVER Cap.
I would LOVE to pay 2x the cap for lasers if I got a 5% per level dmg bonus on the apoc. If you think those 2 bonus's are equivilent, can we swap out some of the dmg bonus's on your ships too?
You dont think the fact you dont have to carry ammo and therfore can never run out is a major hidden bonus for amar ships.
They who shout the loudest normally have the least to say. |
Riggwelter
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Posted - 2005.03.04 13:03:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Lallante
-30% less dmg and lower range?
Yes of course thats a problem.
You dont get Long range guns and them use them at short range you know.
1400mm Tracking 0.0090
Tachy Tracking 1.0139
You have more than 30% better tracking so youre not going to miss anywhere as much as 1400.
They who shout the loudest normally have the least to say. |
Lucre
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Posted - 2005.03.04 13:05:00 -
[111]
Originally by: ErrorS
"I Amarr, use to be good. Now I Amarr, am balanced with everyone else" switch the race with another one, add a 10 page thread with whining and you get to see a bit of history. Not one race hasn't done it already and we will probably all do it again.
Do you remember the first great laser nerf? When we moaned for months and months that it had been overdone and were mostly flying with rails and projectiles on our Apocs? Until *eventually* they gave lasers some loving again.
Do you remember the great large turret nerf? When people moaned for months and months that large projectiles were now useless, and you couldn't give away Tempest Bpc's? Until *eventually* they gave the projectiles some loving again.
Just for once, could we hope that they listen to the people affected *before* a great nerf? And that for once we wouldn't have to wait another 9 months or more before the "loving stick" [ooh-er!] gets waved over the current over-nerfed victim?
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meowcat
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Posted - 2005.03.04 13:09:00 -
[112]
they still outdamage blasters at a longer range.
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Kayinan Malrean
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Posted - 2005.03.04 13:36:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Lucre
Do you remember the great large turret nerf? When people moaned for months and months that large projectiles were now useless, and you couldn't give away Tempest Bpc's? Until *eventually* they gave the projectiles some loving again.
Oh, I do remember. I started the game and immediately fitted Projectile guns into my Punisher after seeing how crappy the lasers were. Then to Maller. For Apoc I used 425mm Rails, because there just wasn't any point in using the lasers.
Do we see Mega Pulses in Tempests? Megathrons? Domis? Don't think the way quite a few Amarr ships were using non-laser turrets back then.
Well. It's just a bit over a month to learn the proj specs for 1400mm. After that Apoc should be ok again.
Quote:
Just for once, could we hope that they listen to the people affected *before* a great nerf? And that for once we wouldn't have to wait another 9 months or more before the "loving stick" [ooh-er!] gets waved over the current over-nerfed victim?
Next victim is already in the sights. This run it's Arma, Apoc and Amarr HACs that suffer. In two months they'll nerf Raven for being the big soppy noob ship it is for lvl4 missions.
After that it'll be propably quiet for a while, while everyone's busy switching skills to projectiles to be able to do even some damage. Then it's time to nerf those projectiles, again.
Hybrids, otoh, will just be forgotten, as nobody's really using those Gallente Battleships anyways. They're a bit like Apocs after the last laser nerf, good for expensive mining ships.
--
God I love pointless ranting.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.03.04 13:39:00 -
[114]
- would just like to point out that being able to tank well gives you a whooping additional ~4 seconds before you die in a fleetbattle.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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fras
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Posted - 2005.03.04 13:55:00 -
[115]
Edited by: fras on 04/03/2005 14:03:00
A crusader can fit a full rack of dual light beam II's ok for added range, of course they have less tracking than DLP but i've not tested them in pvp since the new Crusader tracking bonus. They could work.
Mind you if the 15km webs go ahead I'm increasingly thinking ranged frigate combat might be less effective/less popular anyway(hello taranis).
It's a difficult one, I do think the megapulse needs tweaking & after some testing last night I think the changes are fair(and i have specialized in lasers). What I don't like though is that this change nerfs every pulse weapon on every ship.
I know that large weapons derive from small weapons etc but is it a golden rule? Why not treat the BS class separately?
Does anyone really think pulses are overpowered for frigates and cruisers atm? I don't.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.04 14:13:00 -
[116]
Bye bye Zealot, Bye bye Sacriledge
Helo vagabond, I think I'm gonna cryy-yyy
Bye bye my zealot goodbye
There goes my baby it's nerfed to poo
She sure looked happy I sure look blue
Roy Orbison ftw.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Novarei
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Posted - 2005.03.04 14:24:00 -
[117]
dam glad my geddon insurance is up soon
+--------------------------------------------+
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.03.04 16:56:00 -
[118]
The armageddon and typphoon are timeless ships. No matter how the game changes they will always own. Its just the armageddon has seen the greenest side of the pasture for FAR TOO LONG. Kill its RoF bonus, give it an armor or falloff bonus, and leave lasers alone. Classic CCP overkilling when they should be looking for minor tweakage.
--------------------
The Nest
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.03.04 18:25:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
The armageddon and typphoon are timeless ships. No matter how the game changes they will always own. Its just the armageddon has seen the greenest side of the pasture for FAR TOO LONG. Kill its RoF bonus, give it an armor or falloff bonus, and leave lasers alone. Classic CCP overkilling when they should be looking for minor tweakage.
Agreed.
Nerf the geddon. That 40page nerf megapulse thread was made to nerf bs sized pulses, anyone stating otherwise is 100% wrong.
________________________________________________________
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DARKKK
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Posted - 2005.03.04 19:19:00 -
[120]
i wonder why they go to extremes... they could do it slower... but in the end missiles are still uber and there has nothing been done about that.
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