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R'adeh	Posted - 2005.03.12 16:46:00 - [1] One question: Why hasn't CCP implemented anything to counter ore thieves? I'm not talking about making it impossible since I think ore thievery should be still allowed. But the fact that you can do NOTHING to prevent them from just coming up to you in Empire space is just wrong. One simple way to make it harder for them would be: 1. Anyone not in your mining gang is flagged when he/she takes from your container. 2. If flagged, you can be shot down by MO gangmembers (and ONLY by them), no matter the sec status of the system. This would allow miners to get them back for taking their ores. At the same time it would make the game more interesting since ore thieves would need to organize carefully before robbing someone. What's ur opinion on this matter?
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.03.12 17:03:00 - [2] Originally by: R'adeh What's ur opinion on this matter? Boo hoo hoo (How many times this has to be said, mine into a secure can or in <0.5 where you can shoot the evil thief.)
Rithal	Posted - 2005.03.12 17:04:00 - [3] You can prevent it. Use secure cans, thats what they are there for.
EaglesFire	Posted - 2005.03.12 18:07:00 - [4] Or, better yet, go mine in a system that does not have 100's of people in it. Goto an out of the way system and mine there. "Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
Andrue	Posted - 2005.03.12 18:08:00 - [5] It's all been said before R'adeh. Dozens of times. Hundreds of times. You are not suggesting anything here that hasn't already been suggested several times a month for the last two years. Give it up and move on. CCP have made it clear that the risk of hving your ore stolen is the balance to counter the increase in yield you get from using a jet can. As a miner who has never suffered an ore theft I will suggest that you stop mining in busy systems and go find somewhere off the beaten track. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
DHU InMe	Posted - 2005.03.12 18:19:00 - [6] Redundant topic. Still need to be implemented. Stealing from another player triggers an criminal flag while Illegal items trigger responses from Customs officials (not usefull when stealing stuff hapen in belt). http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/aggression/contraband.asp Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04): BP, bugs about them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way.
Kira Natel	Posted - 2005.03.12 18:32:00 - [7] The topic needs to be addressed no matter how many posts it takes. CCP wake up!!
Lallante	Posted - 2005.03.12 18:48:00 - [8] No IT DOESNT! It isnt a problem! Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Big doggy	Posted - 2005.03.12 18:59:00 - [9] I get DEATH THREATS all day long stealing ore. People need to learn how to play the game so that ore theives can't take your ore.
Kayser	Posted - 2005.03.12 19:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Kira Natel The topic needs to be addressed no matter how many posts it takes. CCP wake up!! How about making Jetcans have the size of the Ships hold that created it. That would not only make more sense then the current mega cans, it would also stop these annoying topics since noone would use jetcans for mining anymore.
sableye	Posted - 2005.03.12 21:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Originally by: R'adeh What's ur opinion on this matter? Boo hoo hoo (How many times this has to be said, mine into a secure can or in <0.5 where you can shoot the evil thief.) you can't eevn shoot them in below .5 as game rules say your a pirate then and you;ll lose security status.
R'adeh	Posted - 2005.03.12 21:32:00 - [12] Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not whining. I know there's ways to evade being robbed (secure containers, remote systems, etc.) but I think to make it fair you should have the right to fight back. Think about it, if someone on the street comes up to you and tries to snatch your wallet, you have the opportunity to hit him or drag him to the cops. Ingame on the otherhand, you can do nothing but watch unless you're in <0.5. Secure containers are too small and unless you're in a gang or have 2 accounts you're gonna be mining for very little time before u have to start hauling. Oh, and I don't expect ore thieves like Big doggy to agree, obviously Let me ask you one question: What would make it unfair if I had the right to defend my property? There's thieves and pirates ingame, which makes this game interesting, but please give us the possibility to defend ourselves. I know there's dozens of posts about this topic and CCP hasn't reacted...I guess it'll all stay a dream
Roy Focker	Posted - 2005.03.12 21:36:00 - [13] Originally by: R'adeh Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not whining. I know there's ways to evade being robbed (secure containers, remote systems, etc.) but I think to make it fair you should have the right to fight back. Think about it, if someone on the street comes up to you and tries to snatch your wallet, you have the opportunity to hit him or drag him to the cops. Ingame on the otherhand, you can do nothing but watch unless you're in <0.5. Secure containers are too small and unless you're in a gang or have 2 accounts you're gonna be mining for very little time before u have to start hauling. Oh, and I don't expect ore thieves like Big doggy to agree, obviously Let me ask you one question: What would make it unfair if I had the right to defend my property? There's thieves and pirates ingame, which makes this game interesting, but please give us the possibility to defend ourselves. I know there's dozens of posts about this topic and CCP hasn't reacted...I guess it'll all stay a dream In real life your property is YOUR property. In EVE when you jettison your ore, it is not yours anymore. If you were to throw your wallet full of money on to the street and I were to pick it up, then the wallet is now mine. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole.
R'adeh	Posted - 2005.03.12 21:43:00 - [14] Well, if I name my can "R'adeh's ore" I consider it mine. And if I drop my wallet and see you picking it up, I have the possibility to ask you to give it back. If you resist, I have several options Not that I'm a violent person
sableye	Posted - 2005.03.12 21:44:00 - [15] "In real life your property is YOUR property. In EVE when you jettison your ore, it is not yours anymore. If you were to throw your wallet full of money on to the street and I were to pick it up, then the wallet is now mine." cargo containers saythey belong to you when you jettison they even show your picture when you show info, plus if someone tries to put soemthing in your can it says they can't because its your can.
MinorFreak	Posted - 2005.03.12 22:27:00 - [16] i dunno. always wondered what i'd do if i found a wallet with ID and lots of twenties stuffed inside. give it back in it's entirety take cash and give the wallet to the cops take the whole kit and kaboodle and see if IDs are worth anything depending on my financial situation, it would be either option 1 or 2. however, if it's a game and i saw someone mining into a jetcan (or giant secure can that can't be passworded in 0.8+ space) if it was some fat lazy Mining Barge in a 1.0 n00b system i'd merrily put on the 'waste-removal-specialist' hat and have at her if it was some dummy using giant secure cans i'd come along and take the entire can into my cargo hold right in front of their eyes - and then eject it and name it something silly if it was obviously some n00b mining i wouldn't bother wasting my time stealing their ore...because, in the end, you ARE thieving regardless of Eve's mechanics ______________________ Best darned links ingame and out (backup)
Daniel Jackson	Posted - 2005.03.12 22:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Originally by: R'adeh What's ur opinion on this matter? Boo hoo hoo (How many times this has to be said, mine into a secure can or in <0.5 where you can shoot the evil thief.) u mean >0.5 <0.5 means greater then >0.5 means less then Caldari will once again rise above the gallente and take back Caldari prime! Image done by Denrace
Daniel Jackson	Posted - 2005.03.12 22:45:00 - [18] Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 12/03/2005 22:51:32 Originally by: Rithal You can prevent it. Use secure cans, thats what they are there for. let me bring up to the point whith these Secure cans, ok the deal is that u cant ancre secure cans in 0.9 and up space, 2ed thing, i can mine the gient secure can in only 1 min so therer for it is usless to use it. and + i wish that thing were it says somthing about people get flages when they take stuff ourt of your cn i wish they would implant that soon, because see your bascly doomb both places, 0.5 and up u can get your ore stolen. 0.4 and below u can get your ore stolen or gte killed or both Caldari will once again rise above the gallente and take back Caldari prime! Image done by Denrace
Azmodaus	Posted - 2005.03.12 23:02:00 - [19] omg, not this topic again........ Honestly, I've never ever ever had my ore stolen. Why? Probably because I'm lucky, or maybe its because I mine in out of the way places. Ore theivery is totally lame but I wouldn't say its a problem, just don't mine in the main population areas, there is alot of systems out there.
Rithal	Posted - 2005.03.12 23:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Daniel Jackson u mean >0.5 <0.5 means greater then >0.5 means less then Actually its < 0.5 for something less then 0.5, and > 0.5 for something greater. < = Less Then, > = Greater Then. And I can't read much of your other post....use Periods and Paragrahs please... From what I do get though, Secure cans are there so that you dont have risk losing ore...Use multiple ones if you think they are too small...Or train up an alt to haul for you.
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.03.12 23:09:00 - [21] I was wondering when this topic would pop up again.. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
Selena 001	Posted - 2005.03.12 23:15:00 - [22] S'funny you shud mention this... I was mining with my Alt earlier... and I docked her at a station. After my mining cycle finished, I tried to move the ore accross to the can she was mining into (I was just being lazy not jettisoning it like I usially do), and would you believe it... Some pile of ***** about me not being able to dump anything into it cause I wasn't a member of her gang. Selena 001 checks the gang screen.... Yes I bloody well am. Tried it again and it happened again. So aparently it's even worse for non-theives. We can no longer dump Ore in each others cans... but we can* pinch it from each other. Seems a little pointless to be honest. It's not a problem, I just found it rather amusing at the time... ___________ I only have 5 months left of 'knowing at all'... I had better put it to good use
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.03.12 23:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Wrangler I was wondering when this topic would pop up again.. It's on a 5 day timer isn't it? -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
Talyn Draco	Posted - 2005.03.12 23:43:00 - [24] heres the solution to your problem...pay attention now- save up iskies <more the better> hire a merc corp to crush the life out of the ore thieves. problem solved ----------------------- And veggie in the back said "everyone" attack and it turned into a ballroom blitz! And Eris in the corner said "boy I wanna know ya" and it turned into a ballroom blitz
Thanit	Posted - 2005.03.12 23:55:00 - [25] have an industrial pick up the ore from the jetcan right after dumping it in. Minimise the wondow of opportunity for ore thieves. yes that doesnt work for solo miners that switch ships to haul. and no it shouldnt.
DARTHEXIDOUS	Posted - 2005.03.13 00:06:00 - [26] What you mean you cant anchour a secure can in 0.9 come to the system i go to and theres a secure can anchoured there for over a year i belive now and its anchoured
EaglesFire	Posted - 2005.03.13 01:55:00 - [27] Originally by: R'adeh Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not whining. I know there's ways to evade being robbed (secure containers, remote systems, etc.) but I think to make it fair you should have the right to fight back. Think about it, if someone on the street comes up to you and tries to snatch your wallet, you have the opportunity to hit him or drag him to the cops. Ingame on the otherhand, you can do nothing but watch unless you're in <0.5. Secure containers are too small and unless you're in a gang or have 2 accounts you're gonna be mining for very little time before u have to start hauling. Oh, and I don't expect ore thieves like Big doggy to agree, obviously Let me ask you one question: What would make it unfair if I had the right to defend my property? There's thieves and pirates ingame, which makes this game interesting, but please give us the possibility to defend ourselves. I know there's dozens of posts about this topic and CCP hasn't reacted...I guess it'll all stay a dream So... by your example, if you were making money and throwing it in a trash can beside you on a public street, that money is still yours? I don't steal ore, but come on. There are many risks vs rewards in this game. Get used to it! "Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.03.13 02:07:00 - [28] Yes I am a miner/producer/mission runner... now I jetcan mine and I haul it and have only been robbed once.... BUT saying there is securecontainers for mining is not the answer because it is not a solution but more a problem. 1) Size.... 2) Can't anchor them in 0.8 and up 3) can't anchor them closer than 5000 meter between them wich makes it impossible to mine effectivly. I am all for the Risk vs Rewards thing, but here is the problem... orethiefs don't have any risk only rewards, why exclude them from the riskpart ? ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor. 13:11
Ibobah'k Chisaraj	Posted - 2005.03.13 03:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Arcticblue2 1) Size.... 2) Can't anchor them in 0.8 and up 3) can't anchor them closer than 5000 meter between them wich makes it impossible to mine effectivly. But CCP wants it to be ineffective. See, if it were to be easy and fast and efficient, we'd all be having everything we'd fancy too soonÖ and that would mean we'd get bored too soonÖ and that would be bad for business. Someone said the ore theiving risk is thought to be a counter/deterrant from mining into a jetcan as to not benefit from it's oversized capacity. Well, to me that seems like bull****Ö. You mean that the ore theif should rather be the one who benefits from the disproportionally big jet can instead? Then it will be the ore theif who get rich to fast rather than the miner. Wheres the logic in that? Why not make a generic debri cloud to clarify the logic with it all? You eject some garbage intentionally or a ship blows up, same thing, a debri cloud from which you can take stuff/loot with a volume exactly that of its content, but not put anything back in. Then we would have no jetcan/jectcan mining problem anymore. And they would disperse, not explode. Period. End of story. G'day axhandle!
MooKids	Posted - 2005.03.13 05:21:00 - [30] Originally by: Wrangler I was wondering when this topic would pop up again.. You think we could have a stickied thread with all the arguments from both sides collected and listed, allowing people to post there with new ideas and locking new threads of these cause this topic has been BEATEN TO DEATH! -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity.

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