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R'adeh
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Posted - 2005.03.12 16:46:00 -
[1]
One question: Why hasn't CCP implemented anything to counter ore thieves? I'm not talking about making it impossible since I think ore thievery should be still allowed. But the fact that you can do NOTHING to prevent them from just coming up to you in Empire space is just wrong.
One simple way to make it harder for them would be:
1. Anyone not in your mining gang is flagged when he/she takes from your container.
2. If flagged, you can be shot down by MO gangmembers (and ONLY by them), no matter the sec status of the system.
This would allow miners to get them back for taking their ores. At the same time it would make the game more interesting since ore thieves would need to organize carefully before robbing someone.
What's ur opinion on this matter?
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.03.12 17:03:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: R'adeh
What's ur opinion on this matter?
Boo hoo hoo
(How many times this has to be said, mine into a secure can or in <0.5 where you can shoot the evil thief.)
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Rithal
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Posted - 2005.03.12 17:04:00 -
[3]
You can prevent it. Use secure cans, thats what they are there for.
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EaglesFire
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:07:00 -
[4]
Or, better yet, go mine in a system that does not have 100's of people in it. Goto an out of the way system and mine there.
"Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:08:00 -
[5]
It's all been said before R'adeh. Dozens of times. Hundreds of times. You are not suggesting anything here that hasn't already been suggested several times a month for the last two years.
Give it up and move on. CCP have made it clear that the risk of hving your ore stolen is the balance to counter the increase in yield you get from using a jet can.
As a miner who has never suffered an ore theft I will suggest that you stop mining in busy systems and go find somewhere off the beaten track.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
DHU InMe
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:19:00 -
[6]
Redundant topic. Still need to be implemented.
Stealing from another player triggers an criminal flag while Illegal items trigger responses from Customs officials (not usefull when stealing stuff hapen in belt).
http://www.eve-online.com/features/exodus/aggression/contraband.asp
Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04):
BP, bugs about them.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way. |
Kira Natel
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:32:00 -
[7]
The topic needs to be addressed no matter how many posts it takes. CCP wake up!!
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Lallante
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:48:00 -
[8]
No IT DOESNT!
It isnt a problem!
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Big doggy
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:59:00 -
[9]
I get DEATH THREATS all day long stealing ore.
People need to learn how to play the game so that ore theives can't take your ore.
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Kayser
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Posted - 2005.03.12 19:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kira Natel
The topic needs to be addressed no matter how many posts it takes. CCP wake up!!
How about making Jetcans have the size of the Ships hold that created it. That would not only make more sense then the current mega cans, it would also stop these annoying topics since noone would use jetcans for mining anymore.
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sableye
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Posted - 2005.03.12 21:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: R'adeh
What's ur opinion on this matter?
Boo hoo hoo
(How many times this has to be said, mine into a secure can or in <0.5 where you can shoot the evil thief.)
you can't eevn shoot them in below .5 as game rules say your a pirate then and you;ll lose security status.
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R'adeh
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Posted - 2005.03.12 21:32:00 -
[12]
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not whining. I know there's ways to evade being robbed (secure containers, remote systems, etc.) but I think to make it fair you should have the right to fight back.
Think about it, if someone on the street comes up to you and tries to snatch your wallet, you have the opportunity to hit him or drag him to the cops. Ingame on the otherhand, you can do nothing but watch unless you're in <0.5. Secure containers are too small and unless you're in a gang or have 2 accounts you're gonna be mining for very little time before u have to start hauling.
Oh, and I don't expect ore thieves like Big doggy to agree, obviously Let me ask you one question: What would make it unfair if I had the right to defend my property? There's thieves and pirates ingame, which makes this game interesting, but please give us the possibility to defend ourselves. I know there's dozens of posts about this topic and CCP hasn't reacted...I guess it'll all stay a dream 
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Roy Focker
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Posted - 2005.03.12 21:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: R'adeh
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not whining. I know there's ways to evade being robbed (secure containers, remote systems, etc.) but I think to make it fair you should have the right to fight back.
Think about it, if someone on the street comes up to you and tries to snatch your wallet, you have the opportunity to hit him or drag him to the cops. Ingame on the otherhand, you can do nothing but watch unless you're in <0.5. Secure containers are too small and unless you're in a gang or have 2 accounts you're gonna be mining for very little time before u have to start hauling.
Oh, and I don't expect ore thieves like Big doggy to agree, obviously Let me ask you one question: What would make it unfair if I had the right to defend my property? There's thieves and pirates ingame, which makes this game interesting, but please give us the possibility to defend ourselves. I know there's dozens of posts about this topic and CCP hasn't reacted...I guess it'll all stay a dream
In real life your property is YOUR property. In EVE when you jettison your ore, it is not yours anymore.
If you were to throw your wallet full of money on to the street and I were to pick it up, then the wallet is now mine.
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
I am not paying $15 a month to play a immature a-hole. |
R'adeh
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Posted - 2005.03.12 21:43:00 -
[14]
Well, if I name my can "R'adeh's ore" I consider it mine. And if I drop my wallet and see you picking it up, I have the possibility to ask you to give it back. If you resist, I have several options  Not that I'm a violent person 
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sableye
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Posted - 2005.03.12 21:44:00 -
[15]
"In real life your property is YOUR property. In EVE when you jettison your ore, it is not yours anymore.
If you were to throw your wallet full of money on to the street and I were to pick it up, then the wallet is now mine."
cargo containers saythey belong to you when you jettison they even show your picture when you show info, plus if someone tries to put soemthing in your can it says they can't because its your can.
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.03.12 22:27:00 -
[16]
i dunno. always wondered what i'd do if i found a wallet with ID and lots of twenties stuffed inside.- give it back in it's entirety
- take cash and give the wallet to the cops
- take the whole kit and kaboodle and see if IDs are worth anything
depending on my financial situation, it would be either option 1 or 2.
however, if it's a game and i saw someone mining into a jetcan (or giant secure can that can't be passworded in 0.8+ space)- if it was some fat lazy Mining Barge in a 1.0 n00b system i'd merrily put on the 'waste-removal-specialist' hat and have at her
- if it was some dummy using giant secure cans i'd come along and take the entire can into my cargo hold right in front of their eyes - and then eject it and name it something silly
- if it was obviously some n00b mining i wouldn't bother wasting my time stealing their ore...because, in the end, you ARE thieving regardless of Eve's mechanics
______________________
Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2005.03.12 22:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Originally by: R'adeh
What's ur opinion on this matter?
Boo hoo hoo
(How many times this has to be said, mine into a secure can or in <0.5 where you can shoot the evil thief.)
u mean >0.5 <0.5 means greater then >0.5 means less then
Caldari will once again rise above the gallente and take back Caldari prime!
Image done by Denrace |
Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2005.03.12 22:45:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 12/03/2005 22:51:32
Originally by: Rithal
You can prevent it. Use secure cans, thats what they are there for.
let me bring up to the point whith these Secure cans, ok the deal is that u cant ancre secure cans in 0.9 and up space, 2ed thing, i can mine the gient secure can in only 1 min so therer for it is usless to use it. and + i wish that thing were it says somthing about people get flages when they take stuff ourt of your cn i wish they would implant that soon, because see your bascly doomb both places, 0.5 and up u can get your ore stolen. 0.4 and below u can get your ore stolen or gte killed or both
Caldari will once again rise above the gallente and take back Caldari prime!
Image done by Denrace |
Azmodaus
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Posted - 2005.03.12 23:02:00 -
[19]
omg, not this topic again........
Honestly, I've never ever ever had my ore stolen. Why? Probably because I'm lucky, or maybe its because I mine in out of the way places. Ore theivery is totally lame but I wouldn't say its a problem, just don't mine in the main population areas, there is alot of systems out there.
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Rithal
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Posted - 2005.03.12 23:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Daniel Jackson
u mean >0.5 <0.5 means greater then >0.5 means less then
Actually its < 0.5 for something less then 0.5, and > 0.5 for something greater. < = Less Then, > = Greater Then.
And I can't read much of your other post....use Periods and Paragrahs please...
From what I do get though, Secure cans are there so that you dont have risk losing ore...Use multiple ones if you think they are too small...Or train up an alt to haul for you.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2005.03.12 23:09:00 -
[21]
I was wondering when this topic would pop up again..
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2005.03.12 23:15:00 -
[22]
S'funny you shud mention this... I was mining with my Alt earlier... and I docked her at a station. After my mining cycle finished, I tried to move the ore accross to the can she was mining into (I was just being lazy not jettisoning it like I usially do), and would you believe it... Some pile of ***** about me not being able to dump anything into it cause I wasn't a member of her gang.
*Selena 001 checks the gang screen.... Yes I bloody well am. Tried it again and it happened again. So aparently it's even worse for non-theives. We can no longer dump Ore in each others cans... but we can pinch it from each other. Seems a little pointless to be honest.
It's not a problem, I just found it rather amusing at the time...
___________
*I only have 5 months left of 'knowing at all'... I had better put it to good use* |
Jakk Graiseach
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Posted - 2005.03.12 23:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Wrangler
I was wondering when this topic would pop up again..
It's on a 5 day timer isn't it? 
--
** All accounts cancelled - have fun guys ** |
Talyn Draco
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Posted - 2005.03.12 23:43:00 -
[24]
heres the solution to your problem...pay attention now-
save up iskies <more the better> hire a merc corp to crush the life out of the ore thieves.
problem solved
-----------------------
And veggie in the back said "everyone" attack and it turned into a ballroom blitz!
And Eris in the corner said "boy I wanna know ya" and it turned into a ballroom blitz |
Thanit
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Posted - 2005.03.12 23:55:00 -
[25]
have an industrial pick up the ore from the jetcan right after dumping it in. Minimise the wondow of opportunity for ore thieves.
yes that doesnt work for solo miners that switch ships to haul. and no it shouldnt.
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DARTHEXIDOUS
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Posted - 2005.03.13 00:06:00 -
[26]
What you mean you cant anchour a secure can in 0.9 come to the system i go to and theres a secure can anchoured there for over a year i belive now and its anchoured 
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EaglesFire
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Posted - 2005.03.13 01:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: R'adeh
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not whining. I know there's ways to evade being robbed (secure containers, remote systems, etc.) but I think to make it fair you should have the right to fight back.
Think about it, if someone on the street comes up to you and tries to snatch your wallet, you have the opportunity to hit him or drag him to the cops. Ingame on the otherhand, you can do nothing but watch unless you're in <0.5. Secure containers are too small and unless you're in a gang or have 2 accounts you're gonna be mining for very little time before u have to start hauling.
Oh, and I don't expect ore thieves like Big doggy to agree, obviously Let me ask you one question: What would make it unfair if I had the right to defend my property? There's thieves and pirates ingame, which makes this game interesting, but please give us the possibility to defend ourselves. I know there's dozens of posts about this topic and CCP hasn't reacted...I guess it'll all stay a dream
So... by your example, if you were making money and throwing it in a trash can beside you on a public street, that money is still yours?
I don't steal ore, but come on. There are many risks vs rewards in this game. Get used to it!
"Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.03.13 02:07:00 -
[28]
Yes I am a miner/producer/mission runner... now I jetcan mine and I haul it and have only been robbed once....
BUT saying there is securecontainers for mining is not the answer because it is not a solution but more a problem.
1) Size....
2) Can't anchor them in 0.8 and up
3) can't anchor them closer than 5000 meter between them wich makes it impossible to mine effectivly.
I am all for the Risk vs Rewards thing, but here is the problem... orethiefs don't have any risk only rewards, why exclude them from the riskpart ?
----------------------------------------------
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Ibobah'k Chisaraj
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Posted - 2005.03.13 03:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arcticblue2
1) Size....
2) Can't anchor them in 0.8 and up
3) can't anchor them closer than 5000 meter between them wich makes it impossible to mine effectivly.
But CCP wants it to be ineffective. See, if it were to be easy and fast and efficient, we'd all be having everything we'd fancy too soonÖ and that would mean we'd get bored too soonÖ and that would be bad for business.
Someone said the ore theiving risk is thought to be a counter/deterrant from mining into a jetcan as to not benefit from it's oversized capacity. Well, to me that seems like bull****Ö. You mean that the ore theif should rather be the one who benefits from the disproportionally big jet can instead?  Then it will be the ore theif who get rich to fast rather than the miner. Wheres the logic in that?
Why not make a generic debri cloud to clarify the logic with it all? You eject some garbage intentionally or a ship blows up, same thing, a debri cloud from which you can take stuff/loot with a volume exactly that of its content, but not put anything back in. Then we would have no jetcan/jectcan mining problem anymore. And they would disperse, not explode. Period. End of story.
G'day axhandle!
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MooKids
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Posted - 2005.03.13 05:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Wrangler
I was wondering when this topic would pop up again..
You think we could have a stickied thread with all the arguments from both sides collected and listed, allowing people to post there with new ideas and locking new threads of these cause this topic has been BEATEN TO DEATH!
--------------------------------
CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Pollie
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Posted - 2005.03.14 08:34:00 -
[31]
Make an alt with frig 4 trained
Purchase frig
Equip guns
Kill ore thief as quickly as poss before Concord repsonds. Dont recycle above-mentioned alt as CCP may think it is abuse of an alt and ban you
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Gantor Paxnor
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Posted - 2005.03.14 08:51:00 -
[32]
The more you go on about this the closer CCP are to implementing the solution.
The solution will probably be what you won't want -
ban jet can mining.
Stop whinging about this and get on with the game, I mine in 0.5+ quite a bit now days and hardly ever see ore thieves, so if you're getting robbed all the time then you must be doing something wrong.
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BlackDog Rackh'am
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Posted - 2005.03.14 09:45:00 -
[33]
Guys the jet can issue has another side effect...people stealing your loot. Now what?Should the mission rats drop loot in secure cans and evemail you the password?!Huh? I don't know about mining,as i rarely do it and when i go mining i'm 99% of the time with corpmates. We have dedicated positions for miners,haulers,security etc. Plus,crazy miners raping all the belts and leaving nothing for new players is not good either,so i wouldn't like to see secure cans in yulai.
But some kind of flagging for mission loot would be good ie cans able to be opened only by the player/gang that runs the mission. Plus,there was once a nice idea about a mini war feature against a certain character,it was proposed as a vendetta.Pay concord an appropriate fee and kill the designated player without concord interference. This would need balancing to prevent constant killing of someone(griefing that is). Perhaps make it so that it needs a renewal at certain time intervals and the concord fees double each time. If some time passes (week or two for example) without you issuing a vendetta,fees are back to normal.This is all just an example,will need lot's of tweaking i think.
If this was implemented,we wouldn't be seeing noobs (the ones in the appropriately named noob corps) stealing ore/loot.In busy systems,it would simply suffice for half the regular population to kill them once. I have no problem with thiefs,it's the game mechanics on the certain issue that need a tweak. If a thief is a member of a regular corp,i can declare a war,but there is no cure for people in noobcorps atm.
The game might not be perfectly balanced,and all games suffer from such glitches,but in most situations you can react in some way involving guns,be it pirates or whatever. However,you can't do jack in response to thieves in noobcorps. Unless you have a dialup with a dynamic IP,multiple e-mails to send invites to and alt-recycle like mad(suicide frigates anyone?).It's bannable,but nobody can connect your normal account with the trial/alt ones if you have a dynamic IP and reconnect to the ISP before logging your main. But i think it's also mega-lame and too much of a hassle...Just my 2 ISK,i'm not really bothered by it,i have loads of arkonor roids in 0.0 (immensea) if i ever want to mine. But it really bugs the hell out of new guys in EVE i think.
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Qayos
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Posted - 2005.03.14 10:56:00 -
[34]
I thought they were going to implement this in Shiva/Exodus so that you could attack anyone that stole from your can.
It is a silly completely OOC situation right now. If you set your wallet on the table, and someone comes up and takes it from right in front of your face, the law would either arrest them, or would say nothing if you beat the tar out of them and take your wallet back. They CERTAINLY wouldn't arrest you for taking your wallet back.
I don't mine anymore, but for those that do, this NEEDs to be fixed. They have every right to compain. Theivery is fine, as is piracy. Piracy you can defend yourself, theivery you currently cannot.
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Ibobah'k Chisaraj
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Posted - 2005.03.14 11:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Qayos
If you set your wallet on the table, and someone comes up and takes it from right in front of your face, the law would either arrest them, or would say nothing if you beat the tar out of them and take your wallet back.
It's not possible to make an analogy between a jet can and your wallet! You don't go shoping paying for stuff with trash out of your trashbags now do you?
Thats one of the CCP definitions of a jet can and, according to it, you cant get permision to punish someone for stealing your trashbags!
The other one is to act a loot container from exploded vessels, but thats another story.
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.03.14 13:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Qayos
If you set your wallet on the table, and someone comes up and takes it from right in front of your face, the law would either arrest them, or would say nothing if you beat the tar out of them and take your wallet back.
I'd p*ss my pants if someone took my wallet. I have a wife and kids so there's never anything in it
--
Polaris Lumine
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SlaneeshZ
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Posted - 2005.03.14 13:35:00 -
[37]
That wallet on table thing is a bad comparison.
Here's a better one: If you grab your pickaxe and a bucket and go to the local mountains to mine some ore and some tourist is passing by, grabbing your ore and putting it into his backpack and running away on his ski then how would you feel?
----
A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game. |
Athalius Verdon
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Posted - 2005.03.14 14:11:00 -
[38]
Oh No's someone stold my Veld....
Like the other person suggested make an alt, a caldari alt at that with frig 4 as a starting point, train it to cruiser 1 std missiles and heavy missiles.
now depending on the thief eith use a suicide kessy or a suicide caracal to deal with said thief while he is attempting to steal your ore.
rinse repete till this alt can no more fly in the space that you are mining and recycle him and create a new one.
Athalius
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Polaris Lumine
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Posted - 2005.03.14 14:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Athalius Verdon
rinse repete till this alt can no more fly in the space that you are mining and recycle him and create a new one.
--
Polaris Lumine
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Laendra
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Posted - 2005.03.14 14:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: EaglesFire
So... by your example, if you were making money and throwing it in a trash can beside you on a public street, that money is still yours?
I don't steal ore, but come on. There are many risks vs rewards in this game. Get used to it!
No, actually, it's more like you lay money on a counter to give to one person, then some idiot walks up and takes it before the other person picks it up. In real life, you would chase that bastard down. We're just asking for the same ability here (sounds like we are gonna get it, according to the last dev chat).
You speak of risk vs. reward...yet, what risk do the *******s that hide in NPC corps and steal ore take? Right, none. Case closed. Get used to it.
------------------- |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.03.14 14:33:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/03/2005 14:35:49
what risk is there to anyone on an npc corp in high sec space ?
right none.
anyway, mine into jetcan - have hauler take opre immediately into cargo = no more ore stolen from you.
read again. Yes, it's very simple indeed.
Now, as to flagging, what are you going to do ?
Have a guard stand by in 1.0 to shoot that flagged thief ?
Dont think you will tbh, every char not mining is a waste.
Will you dock, switch ships and come back to shoot him ?
Too late, he's already gone.
Will you haveyour drones attack him ?
He'll use one of the new haulers with high resistances and tank it out till he gets into warp.
So, nope, you wont do that either.
So tell me, what exactly is flagging going to change here ?
Adapt, use well timed hauling when a thief is near, and go somewhere quiet for mining. Last time I got stolen from is mroe then a year ago already.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.14 14:38:00 -
[42]
Original CrimFlagging system had a condition where someone takes stuff from a can they don't own, the owner and it's gang (and possibly it's corp) can shoot the 'thief'.
I'm all for this, if only to give people the illusion they can actually protect themselves from loot thiefs.
(Allthough an interesting scenario would be that the gang agresses vs the loot thief, who promptly summons his evil friend,s who then proceed to legitimately blow the crap out of the poor miners' defence gang.)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.03.14 15:42:00 -
[43]
Or you get people hunting orethiefs... I see a cloaked Raven that have just made a jetcan for the mininggroup... poor orethief comes in and bam.. all hell breaks loose 
Criminally flagging is good as it also gives orethiefs "risk vs rewards" ... and legitimate the profession
----------------------------------------------
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Qayos
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Posted - 2005.03.14 23:28:00 -
[44]
Yes, most likely you wont be able to do anything at all and he will still get away... but I usually have someone with me to clear rats so I can mine, and if they could shoot the oretheif, they might be able to do enough damage to get him to go away before he steals ALL my ore cans. As it is, he casually strolls along, can to can, taking a good 5 minutes stealing all my ore as all I can do is sit and watch, or race to get a hauler and race for my own ore. I just want to be able to cap the bastard. I have nothing wrong with theivery in EVE, just let the victims defend their belongings.
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.03.15 01:14:00 -
[45]
Quote:
I get DEATH THREATS all day long stealing ore.
People need to learn how to play the game so that ore theives can't take your ore."
Yes you get threats (I see them your in my system alot). But YOUR not playing the game because YOUR hiding in an NPC corp where no one can touch you. Perhaps YOU should join a player corp so there is some consequence to stealing ore. Considering your in a system next door to a starter system alot (or the starter system itself) your stealing from some brand new players I would assume as well as "veterans". What is the honor in that?
To those veterans mining in 1.0 I say go .7 and below and use secure cans... problem solved. But to new players in 1.0 and .9 I believe there should be some way of "getting even" with the ore thief. Eve is supposed to be a game of consequence yet there is none for the NPC hiding alt ore thieves.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Amicus
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Posted - 2005.03.15 05:33:00 -
[46]
Word from Oveur at the Dev party on 3/8/05 was that they would be implementing the new system for jet can ownership "soon (tm)" [i.e., translated as probably within three months]. Of course, he might attribute the statement to alcohol induced delirium and deny the whole thing now.
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.03.15 06:50:00 -
[47]
Get off your ******* high horse Bishop. Since when was it a pre-req that you must be in a player corp to be "playing the game". Let the thieves play the way they want.
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Heifetz
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Posted - 2005.03.15 08:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: EaglesFire
Originally by: R'adeh
Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not whining. I know there's ways to evade being robbed (secure containers, remote systems, etc.) but I think to make it fair you should have the right to fight back.
Think about it, if someone on the street comes up to you and tries to snatch your wallet, you have the opportunity to hit him or drag him to the cops. Ingame on the otherhand, you can do nothing but watch unless you're in <0.5. Secure containers are too small and unless you're in a gang or have 2 accounts you're gonna be mining for very little time before u have to start hauling.
Oh, and I don't expect ore thieves like Big doggy to agree, obviously Let me ask you one question: What would make it unfair if I had the right to defend my property? There's thieves and pirates ingame, which makes this game interesting, but please give us the possibility to defend ourselves. I know there's dozens of posts about this topic and CCP hasn't reacted...I guess it'll all stay a dream
So... by your example, if you were making money and throwing it in a trash can beside you on a public street, that money is still yours?
I don't steal ore, but come on. There are many risks vs rewards in this game. Get used to it!
So if I was stitting eating my lunch on a park bench and I put my sandwich down next to me is it now fair game? Or do I need to hold it or keep it in my bag?
CLEARLY the ore is not discarded so your analogy is pointless.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2005.03.15 09:30:00 -
[49]
Clearly EVE states, that you abandon your stuff when you jettison it. There's a warning about that asking if you're sure to do it, unless you checked it's box to never show again after the first time it popped up (usually in tutorial or so).
In my understandings if you willingly abandon something it's free for take, isn't it?
It's another thing to have other designated people (like haulers) have picking up your abandoned stuff within a short timeframe. In EVE the only stuff that belongs to you is in your hangars or your cargo hold. If it's floating around in space without any security measures attached (passwords on anchored cans), then it belongs to those who first take it.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.03.15 10:05:00 -
[50]
Why do you think Jettison cans in EVE is abandon stuff ??? the can does have your corps ticket at it, does that not mean it is yours or yours corp ???
If you find a wallet at the street, it got my name on it... who is it ??? mine or yours ???
Don't take me wrong, orethiefs are welcome to be in the game, and I understand the consept of Risk vs Rewards... orethiefs are risk for miners using jetcans.
What is the risk to Orethiefs ??? most are staying in noobcorps to avoid being killed by players.
What I am missing in this game is the risk part to Orethiefs and if they would get criminally flagged by the jetcan creator then good... it will add some risk to the orethief, not all will be cloaking a raven near the miningops but some might... and it will for sure give orethiefs a huge risk.
The lack of risk goes for corpthiefs too, again... no problem with corpthiefs they are part of the game but no risk is involved for them as most use disposable alts, atleast there should be a way to figure out the main should it not ? give them some risk.
----------------------------------------------
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Heifetz
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Posted - 2005.03.15 10:33:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Heifetz on 15/03/2005 12:26:29
Originally by: Lufio II
Clearly EVE states, that you abandon your stuff when you jettison it. There's a warning about that asking if you're sure to do it, unless you checked it's box to never show again after the first time it popped up (usually in tutorial or so).
In my understandings if you willingly abandon something it's free for take, isn't it?
It's another thing to have other designated people (like haulers) have picking up your abandoned stuff within a short timeframe. In EVE the only stuff that belongs to you is in your hangars or your cargo hold. If it's floating around in space without any security measures attached (passwords on anchored cans), then it belongs to those who first take it.
No it does not state that you abandon your stuff, EVE simply confirms you wish to jettison (meaning to cast overboard).
However jetcan mining is a well established and well understood practice in EVE, therefore it is well understood that when you jetcan mine you are NOT abandoning your ore.
I agree with people here who say that ore stealing should not be stopped, but you should be able to retaliate should somebody attempt it.
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SlaneeshZ
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Posted - 2005.03.15 13:40:00 -
[52]
I don't think forbidding ore-thieving through some weird rules should go in.
In the nature we have birds who steal from other birds too. That's because these birds "jettisoned" their eggs and went out leaving their nests unattended without protection. Learn from these birds, get a grip and stop whining about ore-thieves.
----
A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game. |
Plan Neun
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Posted - 2005.03.15 14:13:00 -
[53]
Some of them even have humor.
But its to silly hows this works right now. The state do infact support theft.
 |
Brooke Esto
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Posted - 2005.03.15 14:34:00 -
[54]
Space is not a nice place and its most definitely not a safe place to be.
Basically, anything outside of your hangar is fair game, it just depends on how far your enemy is willing to go to get it.
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SupaFlyTNT
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Posted - 2005.03.15 14:43:00 -
[55]
Anything outside the hanger is indeed fair game but you should be able to protect it to the best of your ability ie: fire back and have a go at the thieves.
The flagging system sounds like a good idea. I hope they implement it or somehting similar soon
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.03.15 14:47:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Arcticblue2
The lack of risk goes for corpthiefs too, again... no problem with corpthiefs they are part of the game but no risk is involved for them as most use disposable alts, atleast there should be a way to figure out the main should it not ? give them some risk.
So, you want to shut them down all they way then? Plus, "The Main" is hidden and will remain hidden.
Besides, most corp thiefs I know use entirley different account so good luck with that.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.03.15 15:18:00 -
[57]
Not shut the entire business down no, if they use a different account to do orethief and or Corpthief from then what is the problem ? don't need to know all the accounts of his, only sort of knowing or forbidden use of disposable alts...
Atleast I can admire guys who rob corps with their main.. .they show balls.
Atleast the corp that got robbed CAN start war against some new corp.
One way to do it is to leave noobcorps as they are but if you choose to go out of it and join a new corp you can't rejoin a secure noobcorp but a noobcorp that can be rage war against.
Just a tought ofcourse...
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Kayser
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Posted - 2005.03.15 16:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: SupaFlyTNT
Anything outside the hanger is indeed fair game but you should be able to protect it to the best of your ability ie: fire back and have a go at the thieves.
The flagging system sounds like a good idea. I hope they implement it or somehting similar soon
Yeah I can't wait to see all the flames on the forums from the highsec miningparties that got whooped by a Combatgroup cause they fired on the Orethief(remember, if you can group with defenders, then the Orethief can Group with attackers). I mean, I can allready see what will happen if that ever makes it in. Bored PvP vets creating orthieving alts just so that some highsec miners shoots them for stealing so they can warp in with their main and gank the miningparty without Concord interfering.
It sure will be interesting to watch the blinding flash of exploding Miners all over empire.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.03.15 17:40:00 -
[59]
Well there is always one way to get around that you know, if the creator of the jetcan only can fire on the taker of the jetcan ... in that way noone else in the gang can fire on the thief or in the thiefs gang... no ganksquads... all risk to orethiefs.
even that your scenario does look tempting
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Qayos
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Posted - 2005.03.15 22:19:00 -
[60]
Originally by: SlaneeshZ
I don't think forbidding ore-thieving through some weird rules should go in.
In the nature we have birds who steal from other birds too. That's because these birds "jettisoned" their eggs and went out leaving their nests unattended without protection. Learn from these birds, get a grip and stop whining about ore-thieves.
No one would SHOOT the bird for protecting her eggs though, that is unrealistic. Stop whining to be able to keep hiding behind CONCORD as you steal ore, be a man and fight for it.
"Boo hoo, I don't want people to shoot at me, I just want their ore..."
No ones asking CONCORD to PROTECT the ore, just if they aren't going to stop the theif, let US stop him, or at least try. Don't prtect the coward that hides behind CONCORD to inflict their crimes.
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Qayos
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Posted - 2005.03.15 22:21:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kayser
Yeah I can't wait to see all the flames on the forums from the highsec miningparties that got whooped by a Combatgroup cause they fired on the Orethief(remember, if you can group with defenders, then the Orethief can Group with attackers). I mean, I can allready see what will happen if that ever makes it in. Bored PvP vets creating orthieving alts just so that some highsec miners shoots them for stealing so they can warp in with their main and gank the miningparty without Concord interfering.
It sure will be interesting to watch the blinding flash of exploding Miners all over empire.
Don't give gang/corpmates of theif permission to attack. Only give permission to the corp/gang of the victim to attack only the theif. Anyone else involved in any way gets a sec hit as normal.
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Eleska
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Posted - 2005.03.15 22:59:00 -
[62]
*click* Jettison
WARNING: Are you sure you want to jettison your ore into space?
*click* yes i'm willing to risk this.
-------------
jetÀtiÀson
1) To cast overboard or off: a ship jettisoning wastes; a pilot jettisoning aircraft fuel.
2) To discard (something) as unwanted or burdensome
3) The act of discarding or casting overboard.
From Middle English jetteson, a throwing overboard of goods to lighten ship
---------------------
Jet can mining = More Risk = Higher Profit
Other Methods* = Less Risk = Lower Profit
Welcome to eve: Risk Vs Reward (level4agents 4teh win :/)
What here needs fixing exactly?
Other methods*
Use Secure Containers
Have an friend sit in a hauler and scope the contents of your jetcan so there is nothing or very little for anyone to steal. If you have no friends to mine with (multiplayer anyone?) Then haul your can often to minimize what can be stolen.
Mine in Low Sec and pack guns
Accept said risk and that on occasions someone well steal a portion of your ore.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.03.15 23:46:00 -
[63]
Good you want risk vs rewards... that is what miners do want too... we want orethiefs to have some kind of risk too... we do not want to nerf them just give them som risk, as orethief today = reward only, biggest danger a orethief can get is hard language nothing more!!!
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
SlaneeshZ
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Posted - 2005.03.16 01:42:00 -
[64]
Edited by: SlaneeshZ on 16/03/2005 01:44:42
Originally by: Qayos
Originally by: SlaneeshZ
I don't think forbidding ore-thieving through some weird rules should go in.
In the nature we have birds who steal from other birds too. That's because these birds "jettisoned" their eggs and went out leaving their nests unattended without protection. Learn from these birds, get a grip and stop whining about ore-thieves.
No one would SHOOT the bird for protecting her eggs though, that is unrealistic. Stop whining to be able to keep hiding behind CONCORD as you steal ore, be a man and fight for it.
"Boo hoo, I don't want people to shoot at me, I just want their ore..."
No ones asking CONCORD to PROTECT the ore, just if they aren't going to stop the theif, let US stop him, or at least try. Don't prtect the coward that hides behind CONCORD to inflict their crimes.
In space <0.5 you can shoot the thief as you can shoot at people of all coleur in general there, your reward:
- 'safe' jettison can mining and better ore types.
Help needed for:
- military protection
In => 0.5 you can't just shoot people not at war so you have to mine into secure cans if you are solomining and you will only find lower graded ore, your reward:
- safety granted by CONCORD
Help needed for:
- hauling
You can't have it all, safety and shooting people not at war with you. I don't think there should be a change because many players wants it and to stop the whining.
----
A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game. |
Syzygy Three
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Posted - 2005.03.16 05:24:00 -
[65]
Give us tech II secure cans with 4250 m3! (Requiring Anchoring V of course). I like silly stuff.
"Parting is such sweet sorrow."
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Amicus
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Posted - 2005.03.16 06:14:00 -
[66]
Oveur mentioned new system is planned to allow firing on Ore Thieves.
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Jeebs
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Posted - 2005.03.16 07:45:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Jeebs on 16/03/2005 07:45:06
omgbuhu
man ore thieves are great. they make this game exciting. they are the lowest common denominator of the game, and yet unsung heros.
to all ore thieves out there, i salute you. someday your boat will sail in, and you will begin to make profits in other venues.
think of ore thieves like the bums in big cities. you just spot them a 5, you know they are gonna buy booze (or in this case some good cargo expanders to increase theiving potential) but you do it anyways.
(\_/)
(x.x)
(> <) This was Bunny. Kill Bunny and stop him from achieving world domination. |
ThePilgrim
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Posted - 2005.03.16 10:48:00 -
[68]
An old corpmate of mine was mining in a thorax when an orethief appeared and started helping himself to his ore.
After a brief and heated discussion in local my corpmate decided this guy was gonna get taught a lesson...
He let fly with several missiles...blowing the guy clean out of the sky and then podded him for the sake of it :)
Sure he took a sec status hit...sure he almost lost his ship to Concord...but you couldn't wipe the smile off his face for weeks
======================================
dolce et decorum est pro libertas mori
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.03.16 10:54:00 -
[69]
that is the risk one takes when ore theif (how do cloaked ships go with doing it i wonder)
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.03.16 11:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: ThePilgrim
An old corpmate of mine was mining in a thorax when an orethief appeared and started helping himself to his ore.
After a brief and heated discussion in local my corpmate decided this guy was gonna get taught a lesson...
He let fly with several missiles...blowing the guy clean out of the sky and then podded him for the sake of it :)
Sure he took a sec status hit...sure he almost lost his ship to Concord...but you couldn't wipe the smile off his face for weeks
Thorax can't fire missiles.
Next.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.03.16 11:02:00 -
[71]
Thorax cant fire missiles perhaps he was using a celestis ?
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ThePilgrim
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Posted - 2005.03.16 11:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: ThePilgrim
An old corpmate of mine was mining in a thorax when an orethief appeared and started helping himself to his ore.
After a brief and heated discussion in local my corpmate decided this guy was gonna get taught a lesson...
He let fly with several missiles...blowing the guy clean out of the sky and then podded him for the sake of it :)
Sure he took a sec status hit...sure he almost lost his ship to Concord...but you couldn't wipe the smile off his face for weeks
Thorax can't fire missiles.
Next.
LMAO...No - you are damn right and he has quite correctly pointed out my noobness lvl 10.
He was indeed flying a caracal he tells me...(although knowing how many ships he has lost I am starting to question his memory....)
Mining in a caracal? Do people do that?
======================================
dolce et decorum est pro libertas mori
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.03.16 12:13:00 -
[73]
So first he was in a missile firing Thorax and now in a mining Caracal?
Good to see that Munchausen's syndrome is not a bar to playing..........
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.03.16 12:15:00 -
[74]
how about a 10 slot torpedo bearing gallanete shuttle or perhaps that is the jove shuttle that has dual death rays that do 10000 points damage at 400km and 90% accuracy with a scanning range of 20000km ?
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Matanga
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Posted - 2005.03.16 12:27:00 -
[75]
I only hope that people that "defend" Ore Thieves with arguments like
* Go to < 0.5
* Don't Jet Can
* etc
Don't ever complain about the high prices for Trit and Pye
NOTE : I've never had problems with Ore Thieves (as I usually have my cans bookmarked) but I did find quite anyoing that a 2 day alt in a Kestrel Killed my cans after trying to ranson them.
"ÆIn accordance with the principles of double-think it does not matter if the war is not real. For when it is, victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, but it is meant to be continuous.Æö
George Orwell ô1984ö |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.16 12:31:00 -
[76]
Originally by: ollobrains
how about a 10 slot torpedo bearing gallanete shuttle or perhaps that is the jove shuttle that has dual death rays that do 10000 points damage at 400km and 90% accuracy with a scanning range of 20000km ?
You're just taking the **** now, aren't you..
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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