What I propose is not a nerf on cloaking, but rather a nerf to AFK cloaking. No part of this game should be playable while gone from the keyboard for hours at a stretch- unless you are docked up.

yeah here we go, another afk cloaking thread.
afk cloakign is fine. Why? READ THE DAMN OTHER THREADS WHICH WERE CLOSED, why the f*ck did you think it requires a new one?

Now, if you are really trying to stop AFK cloaking, and not nerf all cloaks..... (because it sure seems like you simple want to nerf all cloaks), I propose the following.

Simply remove cloakers from local. And deny that cloaker local.

- Now cloaks are really cloaked.

- Now AFK Cloaking cannot cause any fear.

- Now active cloakers have to work for more intel or to find targets. (like decloak or use probes)

- Now system residents have to pay a little more attention to whats going on around them.

- Now (if done correctly) BOTs can be caught.

You are doing the same thing an AFK cloaker is, making his presence known in the system without being at the computer.



.

If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.

Congratulations.

You just removed the problem of "AFK cloaking" and replaced it with a problem whereby you log on straight away after down time, cloak up for 8 hours totally AFK and wait till everyone is ratting/mining without knowing you're there and then you hot drop someone.

If someone is AFK cloaking just go to another system and the problem is solved.

There's no way around the other problem and would make cloaking way too powerful. Plus you could fit cloaking devices to normal ships, let some scout scout their way in for a 15 man gang then have your 100 ships decloaking and the gate and totally own them, then cloak up again.

Sometimes thinking about ideas first before blurting them out is good fun.

Its not whining- its opinion with a clear suggestion.

the opinion being that it should not be possible to have such an impact on other peoples gameplay while being afk- and that for 23h a day.

And I am specifically talking about a very limited chance to decloak someone in your own SOV so you can do something about it.

Its not whining- its opinion with a clear suggestion.

the opinion being that it should not be possible to have such an impact on other peoples gameplay while being afk- and that for 23h a day.

And I am specifically talking about a very limited chance to decloak someone in your own SOV so you can do something about it.

I am sorry to start a new thread but the ones I found were locked due to inactivity


What I propose is not a nerf on cloaking, but rather a nerf to AFK cloaking. No part of this game should be playable while gone from the keyboard for hours at a stretch- unless you are docked up.

This is what I am suggesting:
POS Module: Cloak Disrupt Pulse Array

Uses: Fuel X

Pulse: Every 5 min - timer visible in local CHANCE X on disrupting cloak (mitigated by cloaking skill)

Requirements: Soverignity X

Limitation: 1 per system, couple of hours fuel bay max.

Wouldnt this nerf anyone that is not AFK cloaked?

Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK..

tbh I support removing cloakies from local and local from cloakies too- it would add some depth to the whole business instead.



Now I hope the people encouraging me to bring my suggestion here can at least like the thread or they can go to heck

This is what I am suggesting:

---

POS Module: Cloak Disrupt Pulse Array

Uses: Fuel X

Pulse: Every 5 min - timer visible in local CHANCE X on disrupting cloak (mitigated by cloaking skill)

Requirements: Soverignity X

Limitation: 1 per system, couple of hours fuel bay max.

---

Well if he is at his computer and happens to get decloaked - he can just re-cloak. No prober in the world can get him that fast.

And with the timer visible in local he can just plan his pos scouting a bit.

Interesting fact. In the years of Eve online, no one has ever died to an AFK cloaker.

That's just absurd, don't you know they are one of the most potent hunters in New Eden? In fact, I've gotten so many kills just from not being at my keyboard while cloaked, that it's unbelievable.

I need to try this, I'll skill up an alt in a covops and go sit in the OP's home system cloaked and watch my killboard grow :D

Guys... stop trolling... you guys can understand preaty well that this is about that "Cloaked Covert Cyno ship with a player that have enough patience to w8 a week for an oportunity" can't you? The feature and Ideas Discussion is for people that want to discuss game issues, so I sugest that you read THIS before you keep ruining people effort....

No place in Eve should be safe...

Except for those cloaked up in safes?

Prolonged cloaking does need a counter of some sort, prolonged cloaking is a risk aversed activity which has real value to the corp, alliance or coalition undertaking the activity. This makes it a valuable activity with no risk, this goes against the risk vs reward idea, and laughs in the face of risk.

I'm pro cloaking and the effects it can have but I still think there needs to be a counter / element of risk involve in the activity. So like many others I offer my suggestion.

But you must ask yourself, how are they reacting?

Congratulations.

You just removed the problem of "AFK cloaking" and replaced it with a problem whereby you log on straight away after down time, cloak up for 8 hours totally AFK and wait till everyone is ratting/mining without knowing you're there and then you hot drop someone.

Simply remove cloakers from local. And deny that cloaker local.
stuff...

Well since I still believe in a development on this issue; how about this idea I had from a friend:


New Ship class & skills

Counter intelligence Vessel

Can see covert ships on overview while in "sniffing" mode. Is not precise and may see double (like cargo scanners)

Cannot move or use modules while detecting due to the extreme sensitivity of the equipment. Cannot be within a pos shield.

Is weak and puny

Costs a bundle

Superb idea. The most important part "And deny that cloaker local"
Only minor iteration on this idea:
this is done to AFK cloakers. so if pilot cloaked but manoeuvring, warping or doing other any actions (the same mechanics as break gate cloak) he is in local and has local himself.
If he if did not done any action in say 5min, he disappears from local and loose his local also.

Lets say cloaker in belt in hot drop position and been afk for a while. He is not in local. When ratter land in belt, he decides to hot drop, tackle or whatever.. as soon as he moves he appears in local - and now everybody knows he is active..

...
My post (i wont say idea as it wasnt originaly mine), has all cloakers dropping off local.... completely cloaked.
Now an AFK person cant scare anyone because nobody knows he is there.

To balance that, I suggest that the cloaker has no access to local, he cant know who is in the system (appart from D-scan), he cant find people unless he runs to the belts, or drops probes. Dscan may tell him who is in space, but he isnt going to know who is in a station, for that he needs local. He could drop cloak and check, hope that nobody else is watching local....
This removes the reliance on local to tell you if you are safe in 0.0,
....
Fly safe,

This nerfs 'Active' Cloakers.

Also completely breaks Wormholes.

For example active reckons and bomber gangs. They operate cloaked and it is crucial to know that they are in local and you can plan your moves keeping in mind that. It's when you see one red in local and know that it is cloaked, but it is completely different when there are 10 or 20 and cloaked.

If you remove them from local they will instantly gain enormous advantage from roaming gangs to big fleets fights.

At some point has anyone noticed we are treating cloaked vessels as things that are common knowledge when they are present?

The entire point of their existence is stealth, being undetected, and being able to scout in order to gather intel without contaminating this intel with their own presence.
Their combat ability has been nerfed to compensate for the ability to hide, so a prepared ship is not truly at a disadvantage, simply a different approach to their tactics.

Now, we have big powerful space ships. They have sensors, the sensors can be boosted, or jammed. They can even be remotely boosted by support vessels.
Noone really cares though, since we get most of our intel from a chat channel.

Cloaking has already been broken for some time. It is balanced, however.
Sound like a contradiction? Then you also assume balance implies functionality, which it does not.
Cloaking is broken by local reporting it, in an absolutely reliable manner. This is broken.

It is however, balanced by:

You absolutely cannot locate a cloaked vessel, unless they let you, or make a mistake. This is also broken.
Since both sides are countering each other, it is in balance.
Sadly, this leaves cloaking as a meta gaming tool. Many people enjoy this play, so to them there is no problem at all.

Hot Dropping is an entirely different tactic, and while it also relates to local intel, it is NOT directly tied to cloaking beyond the convenient association. If speed is more useful, then you will see faster ships used more often. Same logic as toughness and survive-ability.

Sooo...

Lets pretend that being cloaked for a prolonged duration of time in the same spot has the effect of creating some sort of super magnetic ionic field around the ship. Over time this increases the signature radius to such a huge size that it can no longer be contained by the cloaking device at which time the cloak fails and the hidden ship is super sized for an undetermined amount of time.

This can be countered purely by moving, a simple go and stop and everything is reset or maybe simply deactivating and reactivating the cloak. The action can be anything as long as it requires some interaction.

Prolonged cloaking does need a counter of some sort, prolonged cloaking is a risk aversed activity which has real value to the corp, alliance or coalition undertaking the activity. This makes it a valuable activity with no risk, this goes against the risk vs reward idea, and laughs in the face of risk.

An AFK cloaker is no threat. They are AFK.

Consider however the apparent AFK cloaker who is sat in system, perhaps only a few 100km off one of the gates, or the station, monitoring traffic periodically whilst they do other things on their main account. This is intelligence gathering, why should it be punished?

I used to get frustrated by cloakies in local. I used to sit in station and spin, cursing the S.O.B. I don't do that now. Instead I view it as a higher risk level and equip myself appropriately. Work in fleets, be on comms, and even switch fits for more hybrid PVE/PVP fits than a straight PVE one. Ok, there's a reduction in ISK per hour, but its all a trade off.

Having a cloaked hostile, or neutral, in local promotes the development of strategies to minimise risk. This is emergent behaviour. Its something the sandbox nature of EVE encourages. Learn to embrace it rather than look for an easy mode.

The problem is that people gathering intel take no risk at all ( apart from jumping into the system ).
They can sit in system for days with risk factor of 0. Thats as broken as it can be imo, its like
carebear v2.0.
We all take risk by living in nullsec, why should there be some people excluded from that ?

Exactly!

That Local Chat involves zero effort and risk, and it gives information that should not even be possible to have.

People should need to undock, and leave their POS / Outpost in order to use their sensors and see what is going on!

Thats why we need some way to find cloakers, not an easy one but still, so we can move out from pos and acually find something :P

Non sequitur.
(Latin for It does not follow)

The idea you know of cloakers being present is a contradiction in terms. While local chat supposedly reveals all pilots in system, the assumption they are cloaked is yours alone.

If you want to fly in null or low sec, expect hostiles. Be prepared to deal with them in ways that go beyond avoiding or just hiding.

If you can't afford to lose a ship, put it somewhere safe, and fly something you can afford to replace.
Have fun, blow things up.

Don't give others an "I Win" button by forfeiting before you undock.

You obviously a cloaker or just trolling. You making perfect points against yourr own case.

They dont have to worry about hostiles, they dont have to deal with them.

They dont have to worry about losing their ship.

You give them easy "I Win" button at their job by not being able to do anything to them.

Must say i could not make better points against cloakers as you just did...

They also don't mine, rat, mission, PvP or anything to provide ISK or reward.
Intel is activity like any other as far as i know , just like mining, rat, PvP, it has its rewards but no risks involved. Dont really
know how thats right. Every activity in null should have some risk involved this have none.

If you can't see them to be shot, I suggest luring them into revealing themselves with bait ships.
Option two, fit a tank and work as teams. Then PvE in this mode till they show up.
Explosions happen.
Well cant see any logic in your point, intel is not about shooting and PvP, cloaked guy never gets lured because hes gathering intel.
Dont really see why I must state obvious things like that...

You give them easy "I Win" button at their job by not being able to do anything to them.

Lack of effort in this case comes from bad choices, not lack of ability.
Use tactics and strategy, not fear of the unknown.
Wut...

Must say i could not make better points against cloakers as you just did...
Funny, I could say that too.
Better re-think what you just written :P

Since it is possible to fight back, and has been repeatedly shown in game as such, your request to handicap cloaked vessels suggests a lack of desire to do so.
Not a lack of ability.

(afk) cloakers are needed for various reasons and thats fine.
suck it up and deal with it. if you cant its your problem but not of game mechanics.
afk cloaking is fine.

and now stop posting in this sh*tty thread, everything has been said millions of times,
if you are interested, check those old countless threads. There is no need for another rant thread like this.

As for the discusion at hand, all im saying there should be same rules for everyone in nullsec,
and now obviously one group of people is untouchable, even tho nullsec should bring some risk for everyone.
And if someone could telll me what the ccp have to tell about this i would be really gratefull as i could not find
anything about this.

Hmm i can understand what you are saying, but can't agree. Maybe i just dont know enough about this mechanics...
But since you cross gate to acces a system you are visible in local, cant argue with that. Don't know much about WH,
but since you cross thru portal and not gate, cloak should negate your apperance in WH space in Local.
However no technology to counter cloak is just not logical and promotes efortless activieties in null.
How is that mining, rat etc. in hi-sec is more dangerous than cloaked-intel, or some other cloak activieties in null ?

About the CCP not reacting... Well we all know that for CCP to addres some flaws in eve it takes a lot of effort from players :P
I think they avoiding some threads is just matter of "OMG more codding" issue.

I still think there needs to be posibility to counter cloak, noone says that an easy one but just a posibility.

There is no need for another rant thread like this.

Seriously?

Is this thread still going? Do us a favour and look up the old ones, everything you anti-cloakers are saying has been covered literally hundreds of times in previous threads.

Seriously?
I just don't get it. What is so wrong with you people that your so damn scared of 1 person in a system? If someone is there and you want to run anomalies, move next door. Is that really that scary?

That is my point.

This discussion has gone on for years.

CCP, by not reacting, has in fact endorsed things to remain as is.

You should understand, you cannot change one side of this equation alone. For balance, you need to change the factors that descended from those details as well.

Do you really believe cloaked vessels are designed to not be hunted?
Unlikely, but it would break the game unless local intel was balanced to compensate.
Then they would need to address cyno usage, since it devolved from local used as intel.
At some point, wormholes would be changed so drastically, that it would require redesign from the concept level.

Nothing is as simple as it seems.

Be glad tactics and strategies exist to counter cloaking. Use them.

Well as i seen all old threads were closed case of flame not because of lack of argument.

Anybody who thinks that travelling through nullsec with a cloak fitted has no risk involved clearly has very limited experience travelling through nullsec with a cloak fitted.

Has anyone considered making cloaks escalate in cap cost as you stay cloaked?

I got this idea particularly from Mass Effect: to achieve 'stealth' in space, they're actually keeping in all signals inside the ship, keeping it from radiating out. Sure, they can go stealthy, but eventually they have to come up for air, so to speak, because otherwise they'd roast the crew.

Now, to bring this across to Cloaks, you'd have to make it a small, perhaps even tiny escalation in the capacitor cost for keeping your cloak running. So each cycle adds something like 0.1 GJ to the cost of running the cloak per cycle, and eventually - if you stay cloaked too long - you get Aura whispering in your ear: the capacitor is empty...

This could be anywhere in length-of-time, depending on how CCP wants to balance it. Maybe have cloakies stay cloaked for about half an hour or an hour. Perhaps even six or more.. Might even be longer than that, but the point is that eventually you'd have to decloak. For someone at the keyboard, this is simple to overcome; just tap that cloaking device again and you're good, since your cloak resets to a 0 modifier to the activation cost as soon as you decloak (and vent all the heat that you've been holding), and you'd be sweet until the next time the buildup hits a critical level.

Using Cap Rechargers, Batteries and what-have-you will let you run your cloak for longer, of course, for the obvious drawback of not having another module that would otherwise be in that mid/low slot.

Change local to constellation wide.

Now, if you are really trying to stop AFK cloaking, and not nerf all cloaks..... (because it sure seems like you simple want to nerf all cloaks), I propose the following.

Simply remove cloakers from local. And deny that cloaker local.

- Now cloaks are really cloaked.

- Now AFK Cloaking cannot cause any fear.

- Now active cloakers have to work for more intel or to find targets. (like decloak or use probes)

- Now system residents have to pay a little more attention to whats going on around them.

- Now (if done correctly) BOTs can be caught.

Dear nullbears. You can have you're fancy ability to scan down cloaked ships when I get the ability to remove myself from your precious intel gathering local chat channel.

+1

Deal!

Local blows!

And I am not very fond of warp gates either- let me micro jump to the next system while cloaked.
(yep I am actually for that)

Changing local to constellation.. -1

Then it will be packed with boring chatter, I had many new friends by chatting in local. Let local be something you can opt in to join. I.e wormhole style



Never! Death to meta gaming!

Local blows!

And I am not very fond of warp gates either- let me micro jump to the next system while cloaked.
(yep I am actually for that)

Changing local to constellation.. -1

Then it will be packed with boring chatter, I had many new friends by chatting in local. Let local be something you can opt in to join. I.e wormhole style

I paid 2.85 BILLION ******* ISK for my ******* PANTHER so you DICKBAGS can **** OFF with your useless crybaby cockgobbling bullshit "stop ship cloaking after X time"so it stops me from killing your ******* 80M ISK Drake.

Seriously. If CCP does what you idiots suggest, I want all my level 5 Black Ops, Jump Cal 5 and all Battleship 5 skill points back, pronto, because if Black Ops BS aren't already hard enough to use, any change to cloaking will effectively destroy their use.

Doesn't the game boot you if don't give some input into the game after so much time?