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Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
159
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 05:13:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP has indeed played a hand at causing PLEX prices to go up.
1. Allowing PLEX to be moved out of stations (CCP knows there are stupid people who will haul plexes and get blown up, making them profits.)
2. Aurum/NEX (When PLEX is redeem, it is removed from the system, and CCP no longer has to provide the subscription time service that came with the PLEX)
3. Now, resculpting for PLEX.
4. In the future, potential remap for PLEX.
The sinks for PLEX has increased, while the supply has remained consistent, hence the increase in prices.
While CCP likes to make money from PLEX, they do no like "owing" service that they have to provide in exchange, so they pull all
sorts of schemes in order to maximize their profits while decreasing the amount of service subscription time they provide. |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
590
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 05:38:00 -
[122] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Given the staggering amounts of isk that many folk claim to make running lvl 4 missions, ratting in null, market trading etc, I would have thought that PLEX would need to cost at least 2 billion isk before anyone cared or worried.
Its not the people doing those things that claim to make the money, its the ******* control freaks who think they make too much money and complain about it.
Mooseburger was infamous for the mission ISK claims. And it was all from LP. They introduced incursions and FW exploits and that **** went away with the quickness.
Yes someone in this thread actually said CCP's PLEX deals make the price go up and not down. I guess that's why I waited till they introduced the re-sculpting deal and it was 20 million cheaper than the day before. I'm looking at the chart backwards again. Lol. From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |

Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
226
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 05:55:00 -
[123] - Quote
It's a general rule of thumb that PLEX rises in the long-term. We have 3+ years worth of data to back this up, and the fundamentals suggest that CCP will only implement more schemes to increase PLEX consumption.
BUY BUY BUY |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1239
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 06:31:00 -
[124] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:It's a general rule of thumb that PLEX rises in the long-term. We have 3+ years worth of data to back this up, and the fundamentals suggest that CCP will only implement more schemes to increase PLEX consumption.
BUY BUY BUY 'spculaters gunna 'speculate, yo.
|

Luis Graca
149
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 06:54:00 -
[125] - Quote
P2W |

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
808
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 06:59:00 -
[126] - Quote
i miss 200mil plex then again trit was 2 each and noxcium was 70 each
oh well good thing i pay per year. |

Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
49
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 07:43:00 -
[127] - Quote
Plex is the reason for EVE=inflation methinks.
Easy supply to humongous mountains of isk means ppl can charge what the heck they want on the market for stuff, and it will still sell...
Remove plex, make everyone earn isk the hard-way like they should. |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1401
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 08:11:00 -
[128] - Quote
Up to 620m now...
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
590
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 08:21:00 -
[129] - Quote
Hazen Koraka wrote:Plex is the reason for EVE=inflation methinks.
Easy supply to humongous mountains of isk means ppl can charge what the heck they want on the market for stuff, and it will still sell...
Remove plex, make everyone earn isk the hard-way like they should.
Supply and demand control price. Less supply than demand drives prices up. More supply than demand drives prices down.
From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |

Kehro Urgus
Ab Obice Saevior
438
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 08:55:00 -
[130] - Quote
Cancelled my recurrent billing a while ago. Sub runs out in a few days. Was thinking about going the plex route but it's just getting ridiculous. I don't always troll, but when I do I do it on EVE Online forums.
|

ugh zug
80
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 08:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
Ronin Duskstar wrote:I'm dizzy just thinking how high PLEX is now. CCP is forcing people to buy PLEX with real money instead of isk at this point 
sub a year laugh at gtc buyers ???? profit Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |

Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
176
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:07:00 -
[132] - Quote
Great time for rich people to buy PLEX and sell for all that tasty isk!  |

Kehro Urgus
Ab Obice Saevior
438
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:10:00 -
[133] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Great time for rich people to buy PLEX and sell for all that tasty isk! 
They may not be so happy when the demand side crashes.
I don't always troll, but when I do I do it on EVE Online forums.
|

Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
242
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:10:00 -
[134] - Quote
CCP said they would step in if they got out of control.
I would say a 300% increase in price in the past 18 month "out of control" Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |

Valari Nala Zena
Perkone Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:18:00 -
[135] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Valari Nala Zena wrote:
So, if i understand correctly, when people decide to deactivate some of their accounts because isk per plex is to high, revenue is lost.
Except that as the ISK value rises it incentivises more players to pay real money for them as they can now trade them for more in game currency. Ask my buddy why he suddenly decided to buy 8 of them. This would at least partially offset the drop in subs. Also if people stop subbing with PLEX then demand will drop until the ISK price comes back to a level that people are willing to pay. Yes paying real money for PLEX in order to sell them will help supply, that's good for CCP. The result should be that isk per plex prices balance or drop again.
Except it doesn't seem to stop going up, the isk per plex has been increasing for years. Less and less people are willing to pay isk for a PLEX.
All these years i've been running 4 accounts on PLEX.
I'm still making enough isk per month to afford it, however if isk continues to increase, i soon won't be. Meaning i'm unsubbing 3 of my 4 accounts, and im sure not the only one. |

Renegade 41
Gigaverse The Imperial Senate
4
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:27:00 -
[136] - Quote
PLEX prices are going up faster and faster, and with this tourny at the end of the year ( entry auction of PLEX -20 min) I see no reason that it wont hit 1bn by the end of the year.
yes - 1bn of your finest isk for 30 days of game time, or sit on it for a year and stroke it very often. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4860
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:33:00 -
[137] - Quote
Ronin Duskstar wrote:I'm dizzy just thinking how high PLEX is now. CCP is forcing people to buy PLEX with real money instead of isk at this point 
It's not necessarily all CCP's doing, although they have been pretty aggressive in introducing new PLEX-sinks this last year or so, and rather slack on introducing new ISK sinks.
I must admit, it's getting pretty close to my "why the hell not?" price point. I actually have a decent ISK stockpile, enough that I shouldn't need to bear at all to pay for this winter's campaigning. But if PLEX go really high, like to the 1B point, well... the thought of just "bearing" for a single overtime Saturday at work instead of for a week in EVE in other to go another 3 or 4 months without grinding becomes pretty attractive.
PS I've always thought that game time was very underpriced in ISK terms. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4860
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:36:00 -
[138] - Quote
Hazen Koraka wrote:Plex is the reason for EVE=inflation methinks.
Easy supply to humongous mountains of isk means ppl can charge what the heck they want on the market for stuff, and it will still sell...
Remove plex, make everyone earn isk the hard-way like they should.
If you don't know how PLEX work, you shouldn't post about them. PLEX prices are a symptom of inflation, not a cause. How can you possibly think they they produce ISK when players have to pay ISK to the players selling PLEX ?!?!?  MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

March rabbit
R.I.P. Revenge
255
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 09:41:00 -
[139] - Quote
Anslo wrote:We don't care who does care about those don't care? 
|

Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 10:05:00 -
[140] - Quote
Quote:Plex is the reason for EVE=inflation methinks.
True if so many players grind ISK just for paying subs by PLEX.
I grind ISK - PLEX is 600m - I grind more - bought PLEX for 650m - Amount of ISK in system is greater. ISK looses its worth - I must grind more ISK. About WIS |

Gerald Taric
90
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 10:40:00 -
[141] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:Do people really NOT understand Supply & Demand :P This. :-D I think, it's some kind of "perfect" the way it is. If price is going up, it's just a sign of the fact, that more player need more PLEX and already bought the cheap ones. |

Uwara
The Ares project
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 10:57:00 -
[142] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:CCP said they would step in if they got out of control.
I would say a 300% increase in price in the past 18 month "out of control"
They said so, yes. Our definition of "out of control" doesn't mean crap to CCP. Only way they will act on PLEX prices is when they notice a significant drop in active players.
All PLEX in game is already paid for (no matter how old PLEX are), and CCP spent the money on WoD / Dust, so what better way to get new cash? Force players to "pay to play" instead of "play to pay". I do have an acc in null, playing 1-2 hours in anoms to get 100+m more for increased PLEX price is not hard. Its boring like hell, worse than L4s. Just warp in, shoot, maybe orbit a can if incoming dps gets too much and keep an eye on local, incredibly risky....even more if you are deep in alliance space. (this was sarcasm)
I have ISK, could sub 2 accs for a year+ each easily, but i wont. Max till new year, if even that. Sub with CC? Hell no, just for principle of things. |

Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
268
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:00:00 -
[143] - Quote
Make a choice between time or money, it's not really that bad. wis is nothing but bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other. |

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
445
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:05:00 -
[144] - Quote
At 600 mil it's close to reaching the breaking point for me. Soon it will make more sense for me to stop paying CCP directly and instead, i'll just buy a GTC. I'll use one plex to renew my account and convert the other into isk and reinvest that isk in something that makes me more isk. Sooner or later, i'll be playing for free again while all the new players have been priced out of the game. WIN! They see me trolling, they hating... |

TriadSte
IronPig Sev3rance
116
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:09:00 -
[145] - Quote
Newer payers who were playing to buy plex are still funding CCP. Those newer players are right now pretty much priced out of buying plex.
Maybe they buy plex because they cannot afford Eve with real money for whatever reason.
Those guys quit playing because of the stupid Plex price.
CCP loses out.
CCP should step in and curb this inflation on Plex. Perhaps Concorde could step in and flood the market with reasonable priced Plex.
I forsee quite alot of accounts suspended because of this stupid inflation.
Whichever way you look at it, Its not good for CCP. |

Ryunosuke Kusanagi
54
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:10:00 -
[146] - Quote
i think the underlying question isnt whether or not someone can afford a plex or two, but rather is inflation/devaluation of isk setting in.
*edit* I can think of only one person qualified to make that call as it is his JOB within CCP to monitor that kind of thing :) |

Jonni Favorite
Sundown Logistics SpaceMonkey's Alliance
143
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:19:00 -
[147] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Ronin Duskstar wrote:I'm dizzy just thinking how high PLEX is now. CCP is forcing people to buy PLEX with real money instead of isk at this point  How the hell did you come up with that completely false logic?
It's easy: A=B. Therefore A=B
|

Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1903
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:21:00 -
[148] - Quote
From my perspective, what's "really" going on is this:
People are buying PLEX from CCP to sell for ISK. Being impatient to get their ISK injection quickly, they sell their PLEX to buy orders (i.e.: right-click, "Sell this item", sold).
Other people are buying PLEX with ISK to extend their game time. Being leave-it-to-the-last-minute types, or living-from-hand-to-mouth types, they save up their ISK, then buy from sell orders.
Both groups are doing it exactly wrong. In the middle are speculators who are posting the high buy orders and low sell orders. A speculator can keep flipping their PLEX once or twice a day for a 2-5% profit after taxes. The more PLEX they obtain, the more sales they'll own, or the more regions they'll be trading in.
Throw into the mix the Faction Warfare plex spinners who fit a fast ship with no weapons and a decent capacitor tank. They make billions of ISK a month, then immediately go and spend it. The spikes in PLEX prices that occur during cash outs are indicative of the FW spinner folk being low on long term planning capability or "delayed gratification". These are the same fools who transport tens of PLEX in battlecruisers or other similar ships (i.e.: non-cloaky, or cheaper to gank than the potential drop). So not only do they drive the sell orders up (by buying from sell orders because they have billions of ISK burning a hole in their pocket) but they destroy those PLEX with no benefit to anyone in the game. Very selfish of them, IMHO.
So between the routine speculators who are simply trading in PLEX to fund their retirements and the FW plexers who have nothing better to do with their ill-gotten gains than buy heaps of PLEX to then lose in a splodey ball, I think there's more than enough explanation for the steady inflation of PLEX prices without resorting to "ISK inflation of the economy" or "L4 missions pay too much" (that canard has been doing the rounds since at least 2008).
If you're selling PLEX for ISK, make sure you list it on a sell order and be prepared to wait entire hours for it to sell. Just hang in there, it'll sell. If you're buying PLEX with ISK, make sure you post a buy order and be prepared to wait entire hours for your order to be filled. You might need to babysit the order and bump the price up a few times, but it will be far cheaper in the long run than buying the PLEX from a sell order.
Of course you can go ahead and blame moon goo, L4 missions, unemployed people with too much time on their hands, ice harvesting bots, or the Jove. But from what I've seen, the three groups of people I've just mentioned are good enough explanation for me.
Until the buyers and sellers wise up, or CCP places limits on the number of PLEX market transactions per character/account, I expect PLEX to continue to rise inexorably. CCP could inject PLEX into the market from their confiscated stockpile, but that will simply allow the speculators to boost their speculating base, accelerating inflation.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2756
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:44:00 -
[149] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:From my perspective, what's "really" going on is this:
People are buying PLEX from CCP to sell for ISK. Being impatient to get their ISK injection quickly, they sell their PLEX to buy orders (i.e.: right-click, "Sell this item", sold).
Other people are buying PLEX with ISK to extend their game time. Being leave-it-to-the-last-minute types, or living-from-hand-to-mouth types, they save up their ISK, then buy from sell orders.
Both groups are doing it exactly wrong. In the middle are speculators who are posting the high buy orders and low sell orders. A speculator can keep flipping their PLEX once or twice a day for a 2-5% profit after taxes. The more PLEX they obtain, the more sales they'll own, or the more regions they'll be trading in.
Throw into the mix the Faction Warfare plex spinners who fit a fast ship with no weapons and a decent capacitor tank. They make billions of ISK a month, then immediately go and spend it. The spikes in PLEX prices that occur during cash outs are indicative of the FW spinner folk being low on long term planning capability or "delayed gratification". These are the same fools who transport tens of PLEX in battlecruisers or other similar ships (i.e.: non-cloaky, or cheaper to gank than the potential drop). So not only do they drive the sell orders up (by buying from sell orders because they have billions of ISK burning a hole in their pocket) but they destroy those PLEX with no benefit to anyone in the game. Very selfish of them, IMHO.
So between the routine speculators who are simply trading in PLEX to fund their retirements and the FW plexers who have nothing better to do with their ill-gotten gains than buy heaps of PLEX to then lose in a splodey ball, I think there's more than enough explanation for the steady inflation of PLEX prices without resorting to "ISK inflation of the economy" or "L4 missions pay too much" (that canard has been doing the rounds since at least 2008).
If you're selling PLEX for ISK, make sure you list it on a sell order and be prepared to wait entire hours for it to sell. Just hang in there, it'll sell. If you're buying PLEX with ISK, make sure you post a buy order and be prepared to wait entire hours for your order to be filled. You might need to babysit the order and bump the price up a few times, but it will be far cheaper in the long run than buying the PLEX from a sell order.
Of course you can go ahead and blame moon goo, L4 missions, unemployed people with too much time on their hands, ice harvesting bots, or the Jove. But from what I've seen, the three groups of people I've just mentioned are good enough explanation for me.
Until the buyers and sellers wise up, or CCP places limits on the number of PLEX market transactions per character/account, I expect PLEX to continue to rise inexorably. CCP could inject PLEX into the market from their confiscated stockpile, but that will simply allow the speculators to boost their speculating base, accelerating inflation.
The thing is though, that if I have to babysit the orders for hours, it is stupid for me to babysit them. Time spent on babysitting market orders is time not having fun or making money. Is the FW plex abuser better off waiting to squeeze a few million discount from a PLEX purchase or would he make more by using that time running more plexes? It might be bad for the overall PLEX price stability, but doing a quick suboptimal trade makes perfect financial sense from a personal perspective. |

Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
43
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 11:53:00 -
[150] - Quote
You see, you too think about ISK/hour ratio. Even this couple minutes spend babysitting buy order don't seem worthwhile, only "must make ISK (and fun... orbiting)".
MUST... MAKE... ISK. 
ISK zombies.  About WIS |
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