I'm dizzy just thinking how high PLEX is now.

CCP is forcing people to buy PLEX with real money instead of isk at this point

Power of Two and resculpts for PLEX seem to be the culprit for this recent spike.

I'm dizzy just thinking how high PLEX is now.

CCP is forcing people to buy PLEX with real money instead of isk at this point

And what do you think is a fair price?

Wrong again, Power of Two was around when Plexes were going for 250-300 mil son

Do people really NOT understand Supply & Demand :P

And what do you think is a fair price?

400 mil

So you're saying that PLEX were going for 250-300M less than two weeks ago? Huh, no they weren't, son.

Have 4 accounts. Tough financial month though. Wanted to buy PLEX as I usually do for at least 2 of the accounts.

1.2 Billion for 2 PLEX would wipe me out though.

So, this means 2 accounts are being suspended this month in the next 3 days. Loss for CCP. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If a 2 1/2 year player like myself cannot make this viable, the entire idea behind PLEX is blown to smithereens.

Power of two was around years ago, when the PLEX was low.

Not really. The reason plex prices are so high is because there is a high enough demand to increase the price. Which means that SOMEONE is able to still buy them. May suck for you but not for CCP. If anything this is good for CCP because it means more people are going to buy Plex for $$ in order to get the injection of isk due to its high price, which CCP makes more off plex sales then subs.

If anything this is good for CCP because it means more people are going to buy Plex for $$ in order to get the injection of isk due to its high price, which CCP makes more off plex sales then subs.

Have 4 accounts. Tough financial month though. Wanted to buy PLEX as I usually do for at least 2 of the accounts.

1.2 Billion for 2 PLEX would wipe me out though.

So, this means 2 accounts are being suspended this month in the next 3 days. Loss for CCP. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If a 2 1/2 year player like myself cannot make this viable, the entire idea behind PLEX is blown to smithereens.

If a person is looking to buy 1b isk using PLEX, then which of the following is better for CCP?

A) That person buying 3 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 333m each to other players.

B) That person buying 3 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 500m each to other players.

If a person is looking to buy 1b isk using PLEX, then which of the following is better for CCP?

A) That person buying 3 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 333m each to other players.

B) That person buying 2 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 500m each to other players.

Lets say you can make 40 mil/hour running lvl 4's. That's 15 hours a month, or less than 4 hours a week. Even at 30 mil/hour, that's only 5 hours a week, which I'd call the "casual" range. It seems like a PLEX per month shouldn't be affordable to "casual" players, but perhaps I'm wrong here.

So, this means 2 accounts are being suspended this month in the next 3 days. Loss for CCP. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Obviously A. However if the ingame price of isk is too low then people won't have the same incentive to buy the plex in the first place. Meaning someone would be more willing to buy a plex to resell when the price is at 500 whereas if it's at 333 then they might not find it worth the 16.99.

So you're saying that PLEX were going for 250-300M less than two weeks ago? Huh, no they weren't, son.

If a person is looking to buy 1b isk using PLEX, then which of the following is better for CCP?

A) That person buying 3 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 333m each to other players.

B) That person buying 2 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 500m each to other players.

Lets say you can make 40 mil/hour running lvl 4's. That's 15 hours a month, or less than 4 hours a week. Even at 30 mil/hour, that's only 5 hours a week, which I'd call the "casual" range. It seems like a PLEX per month shouldn't be affordable to "casual" players, but perhaps I'm wrong here.

And honestly, if you put some effort into finding passive/semi-passive ISK sources, most people can still afford a PLEX per account per month if they want.

Depends on how much you get for your ISK. The PLEX price reflects supply and demand and the Inflation. In other words 6 months ago you could buy roughly 4x Tier 3 Battleships with 1x PLEX, now it is roughly 2x Tier 3 Battleships with 1x PLEX. PLEX prices will rise until supply/demand and the inflation found a new equilibrium. Mineral (and to some extend moongoo) prices and it's supply/demand were always playing a huge role in the PLEX price.

So you're saying that PLEX were going for 250-300M less than two weeks ago? Huh, no they weren't, son.

this.

/thread

If a person is looking to buy 1b isk using PLEX, then which of the following is better for CCP?

A) That person buying 3 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 333m each to other players.

B) That person buying 2 PLEX at -ú16.99 each and selling them for 500m each to other players.

You are telling me that the number of battleships you get for 1 billion isk matters when CCP is deciding wether it values -ú50.97 higher than -ú33.98?

The broken isk faucets of FW and Moon-goo don't help matters, when you can create a noob alt, train it for a week, and make about 120 mil/hr, it's pretty easy to obtain the isk needed.

Power of Two and resculpts for PLEX seem to be the culprit for this recent spike.

how much longer until 700million PLEX?

Anyone claiming "supply and demand" is just a plex seller, EDIT: like the jerk below me.

The common man doesn't care about "supply and demand," we want affordable PLEX.

FW tier 5 is probably a bigger culprit.. I suspect in a bit the Tourney PLEX auction soon will also become a big PLEX spike culprit in a little bit.... how much longer until 700million PLEX?

Why is it relevant? If plexes sell for 700M, that's because the market allows them to sell for 700M.

I wish I could say I were surprised to see DarthNefarius qq'ing over economic burdens, though.

We don't care what the market allows. We demand CCP's direct interference to curb these anti-proletariat 1% price gougers. The market should serve the people, and not the rich!

2 yrs ago

Anyone claiming "supply and demand" is just a plex seller, EDIT: like the jerk below me.

The common man doesn't care about "supply and demand," we want affordable PLEX.

Have fun with that when PLEX are a capitalist concept.

Then we overturn capitalism. SOCIALISM FOR EVE! SOCIALISM FOR ALL! FOR THE MOLETARIA...er PROLETARIAT!

So you're saying that PLEX were going for 250-300M less than two weeks ago? Huh, no they weren't, son.

Have 4 accounts. Tough financial month though. Wanted to buy PLEX as I usually do for at least 2 of the accounts.

1.2 Billion for 2 PLEX would wipe me out though.

So, this means 2 accounts are being suspended this month in the next 3 days. Loss for CCP. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If a 2 1/2 year player like myself cannot make this viable, the entire idea behind PLEX is blown to smithereens.

I like expensive PLEX it drives the wannabes out.

i am very new player to eve ( around 25 days in ) and i might sound crazy, but 500-600mil is very very cheap for a 30 days of game time. EVE players should be lucky to be able to plex their accounts for game time. no other mmorpgs do that.

so i am 25 days in from a zero and i got 2xretrievers, 1xcovetor and 440mil with around 50-60mil wirth in ore on top of that. I am pure noob who spent a lot of time in osprey in low nooby ships untill i realised i need retriever etc...


what i am trying to say: for a non noob player to make 500mil isk is freaking **** easy. If i managed to mine up 110mil in one day while watching movies, playing borderlands 2 or reading forums, then all of you "hardcore players" should be able to make a lot more then i can at my current state.

Oh man, this is awesome. If you see this Gogela, thanks, that investment is going to pay off (one way or another).

Do people really NOT understand Supply & Demand :P

Yah... don't thank me yet because the other shoe will drop eventually. What's happening now is the winter "hype" bubble. This thread isn't helping. I expect PLEX to go up in price as people get amped for the next expansion and what we assume will be DUST players coming into the game... but what threads like this do is get everybody speculating... which creates a bubble. Any time people are investing in something they don't intend to consume, the supply and demand equation gets biased towards false demand. PLEX prices are not rising at a natural rate right now. People are speculating and it's moving up at an imbalanced pace. Just be careful Karl. Yes you can make a fortune... but you can just as easily loose one by leveraging in the wrong direction! That said, if you bought your stock at 550 mil / PLEX, I don't think it will ever drop below that again. So GL!

You mean CCP?
I can't figure out why they keep introducing MORE uses for PLEX when that market is already ridiculously inflated.

Value = Demand / Supply.

Just be careful Karl. Yes you can make a fortune... but you can just as easily loose one by leveraging in the wrong direction! That said, if you bought your stock at 550 mil / PLEX, I don't think it will ever drop below that again. So GL!

I appreciate the advice (and the speculation ). I made a few hundred mil off the recent zydrine speculation so I feel that even little 'ole amateurish me can watch for bubble signs. Even so, PLEX is special in that it's game time, so it's pretty much win-win for me anyway.

That's why I don't really speculate in it (PLEX). There's no telling what can happen. You can make a ton of ISK every month just playing swings... but there's so much risk. DUST is a big variable. I'll be the first to admit that despite my speculation, I really have no idea what's actually going to happen with DUST. What if EvE gets a million new nubs in a month or two? It could totally happen. What would happen to the market? No idea. Will they be more likely to buy PLEX and sell it on the market? I would bet so. That could actually crash the PLEX market. Buy things with low volume for a good chance of a win b4 DUST is on TQ... is my wild a** guess on how to invest.

That's why I don't really speculate in it (PLEX). There's no telling what can happen. You can make a ton of ISK every month just playing swings... but there's so much risk.

I'd like to translate this for all the movers and shakers:

Buy PLEX low now.

Sell PLEX high later.

Value = Demand / Supply

This has been a public service announcement from Darth Gustav.

Parcel together poor investments and bundle them as A1. People got away with it in RL and scams are allowed in Eve.

Not everyone has the billions to pull that off :)

Have 4 accounts. Tough financial month though. Wanted to buy PLEX as I usually do for at least 2 of the accounts.

1.2 Billion for 2 PLEX would wipe me out though.

So, this means 2 accounts are being suspended this month in the next 3 days. Loss for CCP. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If a 2 1/2 year player like myself cannot make this viable, the entire idea behind PLEX is blown to smithereens.

Have 4 accounts. Tough financial month though. Wanted to buy PLEX as I usually do for at least 2 of the accounts.

1.2 Billion for 2 PLEX would wipe me out though.

So, this means 2 accounts are being suspended this month in the next 3 days. Loss for CCP. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

If a 2 1/2 year player like myself cannot make this viable, the entire idea behind PLEX is blown to smithereens.

Get a job?

Not that easy, the global economy is in bad straights

Finally I invested in something that's not going to bankrupt me this time

Not like those stupid hulks... hulkageddon didn't jack up the prices then CCP decided to mace me good and changed Hulks so the prices plummeted

You can get em for 360 mill in Jita local.

[shortened to a generic blah]

How about that people have less money that they want to spend on games.

And if there's fewer people to pay and at the same time more people who can/want to spend the time to grind for isk?

The cost of grind vs cash goes up?

Shocking.

The spice MUST continue to flow or brace for havac

Because that's not what's actually happening. If you want to live in that box behind the pleasure hub all your life keep oversimplifying market mechanics.

PLEX prices are sizzling.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. And get out your wallet.

I don't think scrubs like Krixtal who can't figure out how to earn ISK deserve to play for free.

I don't think scrubs like Krixtal who can't figure out how to earn ISK deserve to play for free.

There are those of us who could with a bit of work make the ISK necessary to buy PLEX every month, but it then becomes a grind to play to grind to play cycle, which is not what I want.

Do people really NOT understand Supply & Demand :P

So, if i understand correctly,
when people decide to deactivate some of their accounts because isk per plex is to high, revenue is lost.

And what do you think is a fair price?

It's just a matter of time before they come back down again. At some point people will stop paying the high prices. That in conjunction with the people that buy more of them in hopes of getting more ISK for them will bring prices down as the people that have them at higher prices start to reduce their prices in hopes of selling them off.

Supply...Demand...

1.2 Billion for 2 PLEX would wipe me out though.

get a RL job, issue solved...

1 Dollar!

Given the staggering amounts of isk that many folk claim to make running lvl 4 missions, ratting in null, market trading etc, I would have thought that PLEX would need to cost at least 2 billion isk before anyone cared or worried.

It's a general rule of thumb that PLEX rises in the long-term. We have 3+ years worth of data to back this up, and the fundamentals suggest that CCP will only implement more schemes to increase PLEX consumption.

BUY BUY BUY

Plex is the reason for EVE=inflation methinks.

Easy supply to humongous mountains of isk means ppl can charge what the heck they want on the market for stuff, and it will still sell...

Remove plex, make everyone earn isk the hard-way like they should.

I'm dizzy just thinking how high PLEX is now.

CCP is forcing people to buy PLEX with real money instead of isk at this point

Great time for rich people to buy PLEX and sell for all that tasty isk!

Except that as the ISK value rises it incentivises more players to pay real money for them as they can now trade them for more in game currency. Ask my buddy why he suddenly decided to buy 8 of them. This would at least partially offset the drop in subs. Also if people stop subbing with PLEX then demand will drop until the ISK price comes back to a level that people are willing to pay.

I'm dizzy just thinking how high PLEX is now.

CCP is forcing people to buy PLEX with real money instead of isk at this point

Plex is the reason for EVE=inflation methinks.

Easy supply to humongous mountains of isk means ppl can charge what the heck they want on the market for stuff, and it will still sell...

Remove plex, make everyone earn isk the hard-way like they should.

We don't care

Plex is the reason for EVE=inflation methinks.

Do people really NOT understand Supply & Demand :P

CCP said they would step in if they got out of control.

I would say a 300% increase in price in the past 18 month "out of control"

How the hell did you come up with that completely false logic?

From my perspective, what's "really" going on is this:

People are buying PLEX from CCP to sell for ISK. Being impatient to get their ISK injection quickly, they sell their PLEX to buy orders (i.e.: right-click, "Sell this item", sold).

Other people are buying PLEX with ISK to extend their game time. Being leave-it-to-the-last-minute types, or living-from-hand-to-mouth types, they save up their ISK, then buy from sell orders.

Both groups are doing it exactly wrong. In the middle are speculators who are posting the high buy orders and low sell orders. A speculator can keep flipping their PLEX once or twice a day for a 2-5% profit after taxes. The more PLEX they obtain, the more sales they'll own, or the more regions they'll be trading in.

Throw into the mix the Faction Warfare plex spinners who fit a fast ship with no weapons and a decent capacitor tank. They make billions of ISK a month, then immediately go and spend it. The spikes in PLEX prices that occur during cash outs are indicative of the FW spinner folk being low on long term planning capability or "delayed gratification". These are the same fools who transport tens of PLEX in battlecruisers or other similar ships (i.e.: non-cloaky, or cheaper to gank than the potential drop). So not only do they drive the sell orders up (by buying from sell orders because they have billions of ISK burning a hole in their pocket) but they destroy those PLEX with no benefit to anyone in the game. Very selfish of them, IMHO.

So between the routine speculators who are simply trading in PLEX to fund their retirements and the FW plexers who have nothing better to do with their ill-gotten gains than buy heaps of PLEX to then lose in a splodey ball, I think there's more than enough explanation for the steady inflation of PLEX prices without resorting to "ISK inflation of the economy" or "L4 missions pay too much" (that canard has been doing the rounds since at least 2008).

If you're selling PLEX for ISK, make sure you list it on a sell order and be prepared to wait entire hours for it to sell. Just hang in there, it'll sell. If you're buying PLEX with ISK, make sure you post a buy order and be prepared to wait entire hours for your order to be filled. You might need to babysit the order and bump the price up a few times, but it will be far cheaper in the long run than buying the PLEX from a sell order.

Of course you can go ahead and blame moon goo, L4 missions, unemployed people with too much time on their hands, ice harvesting bots, or the Jove. But from what I've seen, the three groups of people I've just mentioned are good enough explanation for me.

Until the buyers and sellers wise up, or CCP places limits on the number of PLEX market transactions per character/account, I expect PLEX to continue to rise inexorably. CCP could inject PLEX into the market from their confiscated stockpile, but that will simply allow the speculators to boost their speculating base, accelerating inflation.

You see, you too think about ISK/hour ratio. Even this couple minutes spend babysitting buy order don't seem worthwhile, only "must make ISK (and fun... orbiting)".

MUST... MAKE... ISK.

ISK zombies.

This.
:-D
I think, it's some kind of "perfect" the way it is. If price is going up, it's just a sign of the fact, that more player need more PLEX and already bought the cheap ones.

CCP should step in and curb this inflation on Plex. Perhaps Concorde could step in and flood the market with reasonable priced Plex.

I forsee quite alot of accounts suspended because of this stupid inflation.

no no and no

it's a sign of a failing market, do u not get that? People can NO LONGER make the isk required to pvp non stop, so they buy plexes and sell them for cash injections

keep pushing the prices up and watch the market fail, its all linked and goons

and yes this goes back to goons

have done there job nicely.

EvE has at best 2 years, if that, the general consensus of dust around the net is *its halo but with eve crap* so..

and i do love the irony of this

pvp players moan that empires are destroying the game

well guess who ****** it up?

PvP pilots, well done :)

Ive read people like you saying the game would die within 2 years, for 7 years now. So....
Welcome to EVE Online 4 : A new beginning

Ive been here since 03 u little scrub, n ive seen plenty for forum trolls like u, the game is dieing and has been for the past 3 years, u havent seen a rise in subs, uve seen a rise in alts. u damn fool, every troll like u has no clue and sits on these forums dad after day commenting on every post because u have grown so bored with eve u dont even play but u cant bring urself to quit

because your pathetic lonley people who like being morons to others because it makes u feel better

it's a sign of a failing market, do u not get that? People can NO LONGER make the isk required to pvp non stop, so they buy plexes and sell them for cash injections

keep pushing the prices up and watch the market fail, its all linked and goons

PLEX prices ARE getting out of hand

1. CCP made PLEX more expensive than 30 days game time by about 40% (?)
2. People probably started buying game time directly instead of PLEX wish rl cash
3. Number of PLEX in economy went down
4. Demand remained unchanged
5. Price goes up.

It's been on the cards for a while. Anyone wanting to buy PLEX or make ISK from it should have bought some a while back when the knowledge of 1. was known by the few and before the price shot up.

I was wondering, is it considered RMT if a Euro has an American get his PLEX for him to take advantage of the favorable exchange rate?

Pretty steady increase the past 3 months, no spikes worth mentioning. There is simply way too much ISK in the system .. Inflation ahoy!

CCP:
- Re-tweak null plexes (ban all complainers, they are in all likelihood bot operators).
- Re-tweak mission ISK payouts (ban all complainers, they are in all likelihood bot operators).
- Re-tweak Incursions (chastise all complainers, they are bloody whiners).

In that order as the first two are highly botable whereas the last less so. Oh, and give Screegs more drugs caffeine .. seems he is unable to keep up so he must be made to run/work faster!

Serenity (chinese server) staff turned a blind eye (or one eye only) to botting and PLEX there were between 0.9-1B a pop with everyone and their grandmother flying well above their means/age (if it was on TQ).

But .. if people would instead buy PLEX with rl cash to increase their game time, they'd of course -use- it, and it'd never really enter the economy anyway...

So.. according to you:
Before they used PLEXs to increase their game time and no PLEXs were added to the market by them.
Now they buy game time directly and no PLEXs are added to the market by them.


... I don't get how you conclude your point 3 from that.

Do people really NOT understand Supply & Demand :P

Everything is working as intended.

Everything is working as intended.

Survival of the richest, kids....this is EvE!

CCP feels that way too many people are playing for free, and the business model simply doesn't work. I seriously doubt they will interfere in this price increase in any way.
It's to their benefit to have a broader customer base actually paying them direct, on the other hand, it could backfire and make people stop subbing all those alts.....(Or is that part of the diabolical master plan?)

Survival of the richest, kids....this is EvE!

CCP feels that way too many people are playing for free, and the business model simply doesn't work. I seriously doubt they will interfere in this price increase in any way.
It's to their benefit to have a broader customer base actually paying them direct, on the other hand, it could backfire and make people stop subbing all those alts.....(Or is that part of the diabolical master plan?)

CCP feels that way too many people are playing for free, and the business model simply doesn't work. I seriously doubt they will interfere in this price increase in any way.

CCP feels that way too many people are playing for free GǪ

It still, from a macro perspective means, there are not as many Plex as there are people who want them. Prices Will go up.

Survival of the richest, kids....this is EvE!

CCP feels that way too many people are playing for free, and the business model simply doesn't work. I seriously doubt they will interfere in this price increase in any way.
It's to their benefit to have a broader customer base actually paying them direct, on the other hand, it could backfire and make people stop subbing all those alts.....(Or is that part of the diabolical master plan?)

Which player does CCP make more money from: the player who subscribes for 12 months for $131.40 ($10.95 a month) or the player who redeems a PLEX each month, for which CCP was paid over $17?

Using PLEX doesn't mean you play for free: it means someone else paid a premium for your game time. An account paid by PLEX results in about 60% more money flowing to CCP (less whatever margins are available for the GTC resellers).

*sigh*

They may not be so happy when the demand side crashes.

The subs will start to decline.

The reason here is that CCP will happily sell you all the ISK you want.

I've let three accts lapse due to the current PLEX prices with two more coming up shortly.

I'm not angry or anything. I completely understand that PLEX is a commodity like anything else in this game and subject to selling for what people are willing to pay for them. I'm just not willing to pay over half a bil per acct for a months gameplay. Some players are good with this but I'm not a grinder so half my accts go into stasis until such time as I can afford them on what my manufacturers can make comfortably.

I might mention though, that if more people took my example and actually unsubbed accts instead of paying 600M for the privileged of whining in a game forum, the tide might shift.

If you care to dig, you will see that I predicted this situation years ago when CCP first got into the RMT business, so it certainly comes as no surprise me and shouldn't come a surprise to anyone else who's been playing for a while.

One of the major reasons most MMOs fail, (other than planned obsolescence) is that due to everyone eventually owning all the best stuff. The in-game currency starts to pile up to the point where we have priced stuff to the point that new players simply can't afford the price of admission, so go look for a game that is actually fun.

This is what I see happening here, but not for the same reasons. The reason here is that CCP will happily sell you all the ISK you want. The ISK in this game just keeps on piling up and not being removed at the same rate. *Cue Tippia and her little charts* Although the end result is the same. The price of admission is too high for noobs and many vets just can't be arsed to maintain more accts than the minimum needed at the time for what they want to be doing.

The subs will start to decline.

Not a good thing, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen

4) DUST. I'll bet you a billion ISK there are a million subbed accounts a month after DUST has "officially" launched. You want to take that action?

The price of admission is too high for noobs

I've let three accts lapse due to the current PLEX prices with two more coming up shortly.

I'm not angry or anything. I completely understand that PLEX is a commodity like anything else in this game and subject to selling for what people are willing to pay for them. I'm just not willing to pay over half a bil per acct for a months gameplay. Some players are good with this but I'm not a grinder so half my accts go into stasis until such time as I can afford them on what my manufacturers can make comfortably.

I might mention though, that if more people took my example and actually unsubbed accts instead of paying 600M for the privileged of whining in a game forum, the tide might shift.

If you care to dig, you will see that I predicted this situation years ago when CCP first got into the RMT business, so it certainly comes as no surprise me and shouldn't come a surprise to anyone else who's been playing for a while.

One of the major reasons most MMOs fail, (other than planned obsolescence) is that due to everyone eventually owning all the best stuff. The in-game currency starts to pile up to the point where we have priced stuff to the point that new players simply can't afford the price of admission, so go look for a game that is actually fun.

This is what I see happening here, but not for the same reasons. The reason here is that CCP will happily sell you all the ISK you want. The ISK in this game just keeps on piling up and not being removed at the same rate. *Cue Tippia and her little charts* Although the end result is the same. The price of admission is too high for noobs and many vets just can't be arsed to maintain more accts than the minimum needed at the time for what they want to be doing.

The subs will start to decline.

Not a good thing, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen

That is entirely possible, but you have to remember, that since these "lost" suscriptions were to be financed by PLEX anyway, its not like CCP is actually losing any money :)

Nobody would buy PLEX if they couldn't sell it on the market, hth

****CONSPIRACY THEORY****

Would it not be unreasonable to suspect that CCP maybe buy up PLEXes with their infinite isk and then destroying them. With high isk prices for plex will encourage mass selling of PLEX. CCP will make tons of profit, after all they are strapped for cash.


Think of all the PLEX sinks that CCP has created. They have allowed PLEX to be hauled and destroyed (aka transport 70 PLEX in my kestrel and get ganked with 50% loss). They have created a PLEX sink with the NEX store. And now they have created another plex sink with resculpting.


CCP has created PLEX Sinks while ISK sinks have stayed the same.