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Neveren
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Posted - 2005.03.20 01:34:00 -
[1]
*snip*
In a "Confidential" GM transcript I was told by GM's that they were unable to help me track the thief even after they had once. but they said i need to use "ingame tools" to track the corp thief.
My question is. What are these ingame tools?
thats all.. just wondering where they are so i can use them.
Edited - Wrangler
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.20 01:38:00 -
[2]
many of the GMs don't actually play the game and just follow the manuals and stuff.
There are no such game tools to speak off. Bottom line is that without GM/CCP intervention, the theif gets away clean
Scamming is part of the game, they say. But considering the magnitude of your problem, it'd be nice if CCP made an exception and returned the goods. They could make a story about how CONCORD officials caught the guy and stuff.. it'd be a good event and make the game seem more alive.
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Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.03.20 01:47:00 -
[3]
Dont give out ******* access to any old corp member. at most have 3 people with access. Limits thieves a lot.
Edited, do not bypass the profanity filter - Wrangler
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Super Cow
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Posted - 2005.03.20 02:04:00 -
[4]
the second there is more then the owner of the bpo who has access to the bpo you are at risk of theft.
if you do not want it to get stolen then do not let anyone else get any access to the bpo.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.03.20 02:27:00 -
[5]
The tools are -
*access levels for corp members
*evemails from ejecting
*your brain
I'm guessing you're just missing one of the above.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
MrFu
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Posted - 2005.03.20 02:30:00 -
[6]
There are location agents which you can use to track people down(altho they are not very accurate).
In case you dont know the identity of the thief,theres nothing you can do Im afraid 
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Ibobah'k Chisaraj
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Posted - 2005.03.20 02:33:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Face Lifter
many of the GMs don't actually play the game and just follow the manuals and stuff.
uh-huh!?
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DHU InMe
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Posted - 2005.03.20 03:20:00 -
[8]
Also secure log container. is the last powerfull tool...
But since you lost the bpii, you were probably not paranoiac enough...
Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04):
BP, bugs about them.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way. |
Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2005.03.20 07:35:00 -
[9]
if someone ejected the bpo from the labs to steal it then whomever originally had placed it into reserach should've received an eve-mail stating it was ejected & who ejected it.
leastways it always used to be thataways.
tralala
good luck
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Drakxter
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Posted - 2005.03.20 08:53:00 -
[10]
They should add some humens into CONCORD..
We should be able to contact them on matters like this, and they will try to investigate the matter, and give you some info if they can.. Also give sec standing hits..
Also if people submit "fake" reports, they should get fined or loose sec standing, to stop people from wasting CONCORDS time..
-------------
Most tired of thing atm:
- Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.03.20 09:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The tools are -
*access levels for corp members
*evemails from ejecting
*your brain
I'm guessing you're just missing one of the above.
None of these allow you to track, find and deal with the thief.
These only help in preventing crime.
Once a crime has happened, there should be some way of tracking/dealing with the criminal.
Someone flicks a projectile off your shield, causing you 0 loss, CONCORD steps and and bbqs them.
Someone steals billions apon billions of ISK from you, and CONCORD sits there in the donut shop going 'ho hum, diddems to you'
Sure doesnt sound quite right to me.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.20 09:45:00 -
[12]
Something like that would definitely be a step in right direction. Some kind of court system, some kind of police system.
Only problem is that it would get flooded with cases. The people in charge could just pick important ones out.
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.03.20 09:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: w0rmy on 20/03/2005 09:50:01
Originally by: Face Lifter
Something like that would definitely be a step in right direction. Some kind of court system, some kind of police system.
Only problem is that it would get flooded with cases. The people in charge could just pick important ones out.
We tried this in Jumpgate, and dispite hours apon hours worth of planning and effort behind it, it still had 1 problem to it...
Players whined about it, started petitions about it, untill it became a bigger problem than the crime it was trying to deal with.
There must be some way in game matters like this can be dealt with...
Take the example of a Credit Card, it is your responsibility to ensure the safety of it, BUT, if you are robbed, and $$$$$ are stolen from it, the banks and the police can investigate the matter to find out who the theif was.
Some way of giving players power against thiefs AFTER the fact, needs to be implimented.
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Question2
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Posted - 2005.03.20 10:34:00 -
[14]
There are no ingame tools.The GMs have,once again,demonstrated that referring to a sheet of standardized response fails completely as opposed to actually playing the game and knowing WTF you are talking about.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.03.20 10:37:00 -
[15]
The only thing we need is logging of who took what.
No policing, no 3rd parties giving back bpo's.
Just logs.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Taize
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Posted - 2005.03.20 10:49:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Taize on 20/03/2005 10:50:36
"Scamming is part of the game, they say. But considering the magnitude of your problem, it'd be nice if CCP made an exception and returned the goods. They could make a story about how CONCORD officials caught the guy and stuff.. it'd be a good event and make the game seem more alive."....thats Quoting Face Lifter above...
...the answer to that is no...if your dumb enough to give someone you dont know hnagr access then you are asking for it...
personally all i can say to our bpo-less friend is 'wtfpwnd' in your case on all fronts...its game mechanics...get over it 
Can you ******* imagine what would happen if CCP made an exception??...can you imagine the amount of flak they would get because they said ok to this guy and then denied the next person justice/return of items...its stupid to say that CCP should make an exception because imho it would just show favouritism to people who lose stuff witha big price...in fairness...a n00b might have a rifter bpo in his hangar and it might be stolen and after that he is broke and has nothing to make...is his case any less important?...the answer to that is no...
Edited, please do not bypass the profanity filer - Wrangler
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Dau Imperius
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Posted - 2005.03.20 11:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: w0rmy
None of these allow you to track, find and deal with the thief.
These only help in preventing crime.
Once a crime has happened, there should be some way of tracking/dealing with the criminal.
Someone flicks a projectile off your shield, causing you 0 loss, CONCORD steps and and bbqs them.
Someone steals billions apon billions of ISK from you, and CONCORD sits there in the donut shop going 'ho hum, diddems to you'
Sure doesnt sound quite right to me.
Amen Wormy.
He's pretty much typed what I would have tried to.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.03.20 11:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Neveren
In a "Confidential" GM transcript I was told by GM's that they were unable to help me track the thief even after they had once. but they said i need to use "ingame tools" to track the corp thief.
Glad to see that the GM's stopped helping you cheat.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.03.20 11:09:00 -
[19]
Allow a BPO to be "signed" by the owner/owner corp. Then include tools in game to track the BPO by the signature. Does nothing to insure the return of the BPO, but it allows the rightful owner to track who stole it, who they gave it to, who then sold it to someone else, who then transferred it to an alt... etc.
The thief could sign the BPO as well allowing him to track his signature maybe. Make the tracking an agent service, high cost, whatever.
My 0.02 ISK.
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assclown
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Posted - 2005.03.20 11:42:00 -
[20]
Just come up with a blockade type deal. i.e. "if you get robbed you can declare piracy against that individual. Then for a weekly fee you can attack the individual with no penalty from concord. And the player shouldn't be able to join a corp until either you can't pay fee or you individual pays you back for losses". or something of that sort would be a good fair way to make people think twice about stealing you goods.
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2005.03.20 15:30:00 -
[21]
If it were possible to find out who did it using "ingame" means... it would add a new front to the game. I would certainly like the abillity to track who a thief is, and locate and destroy them till they quit the game :) But thats just me.
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.03.20 15:49:00 -
[22]
Sadly there is no real way to protect stuff short of completely limiting access. Discorporation is right though with his assessment we just need logs. If there was a better way to track stuff from the hangars themselves versus only the secure logging "station containers" we could do this.
I don't really see the problem with CCP telling a corp WHO the thief is. If Eve is supposed to be a game of consequences then there needs to be that option. At least until we have the ingame tools to find out ourselves.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.03.20 16:30:00 -
[23]
Ideally there would be agents who could provide you logs for a price (and the right faction). Would be nice to see agents who can give you wallet transactions too. That way you can track monies that were stolen by alts and/or find out who the industrial alts of certain corps are so you can wage war on them.
Conversely.....require Real Life information for high level access to bpo's and such. Such info is relatively easy to confirm (if you know how) and provides TRUE knowledge on who you are working with in your corp. In reality, a T2 BPO is MONTHS of Real Life work to be able acquire - knowing who you are actually dealing with is not too much to ask.
I think knowing someones real name, address, and info would be a STRONG deterrent to stealing the corp blind. If they don't want to provide it, hey no problem. They will just be limited to basic corp hanger access. And if they aren't willing to trust you with thier true identity....well why would you be willing to trust them with hundreds of hours worth of work (t2 bpo value). I don't like it, but with no way of tracking who takes what, or what alt gave what to whom, what other choice is there?
The 13 year olds who think it's fun to steal hours and hours of work from someone may think twice when they know that a couple very ticked off corpmates may be waiting to pick them up afterschool to "chat" with them about it. 
Nyxus
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Naver
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Posted - 2005.03.20 17:01:00 -
[24]
*snip*
I wrote to the gm and asked him 1 thing.
Do you think Stealing is ok.
his responce.
"Yes"
im going to go cry now. Just the end of a ****ty week. if the corp survives this. expect war declarations on corps who end up buying our Bpos as we will hunt you down till we get them back. even if we have no clue who stole them.. Accepting Stolen goods is a crime to!.
Edited - Wrangler
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.03.20 17:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Naver
*snip*
I wrote to the gm and asked him 1 thing.
Do you think Stealing is ok.
his responce.
"Yes"
im going to go cry now. Just the end of a ****ty week. if the corp survives this. expect war declarations on corps who end up buying our Bpos as we will hunt you down till we get them back. even if we have no clue who stole them.. Accepting Stolen goods is a crime to!.
Edited - Wrangler
*points and laughs*
I would give Archbishop's left arm to score a robbery like this.
GL crying yourself to sleep in the fetal position Naver.
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Chavok
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Posted - 2005.03.20 18:02:00 -
[26]
yet another thread full of trashtalk and trolling...
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Hilabana
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Posted - 2005.03.20 18:02:00 -
[27]
gee i hope what ever person that has rob you they trash all the T2 BPO's lol
______________________________________________
Im just a Older person having fun in the best
Game ever made in the world -=[ EVE-ONLINE ]=-
---------------------------------------------- |
Iaukea Asarnil
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Posted - 2005.03.20 18:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hobbsalong
If it were possible to find out who did it using "ingame" means... it would add a new front to the game. I would certainly like the abillity to track who a thief is, and locate and destroy them till they quit the game :) But thats just me.
Great idea actually, bounty hunters get a new area (one that works better), us industrialists get to sleep easy in our pods knowing that the thief is resting very uneasily in his, allows the possibility of blood feuds and vendettas (not sure how good that would be for game balance but it's great from an RP point of view). Not sure I'd want to drive anyone to quit (except those frackwits who smacktalk in local as they dive from safespot to safespot) but teh rest of it is a good idea.
_____________________________________________
The most pessimistic sod in Eve, and proud of it
The end of the universe....coming SOON[tm]
Beware of geeks bearing gifs |
Requim Overlord
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Posted - 2005.03.20 19:23:00 -
[29]
They could make it a feature on security agents to track corp thieves. They could tie it to standing of corp to that NPC corp and help 'investigate' who stole from corp hangars. The higher the standing, the quicker the investigation.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.03.20 22:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The tools are -
*access levels for corp members
*evemails from ejecting
*your brain
I'm guessing you're just missing one of the above.
None of these allow you to track, find and deal with the thief.
Er.
Your brain is a help.
Knowing who might have done it is a help.
Knowing who ejected the BP is a help.
You seem to be missing one/all of the above too.
They can help AFTER, but I agree they're better BEFORE. If you don't screw up, Corp Theft won't happen.
And there are plenty of things you can do AFTER. Can I suggest location agents and a recurring county on their corpse and pod killmails?
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.03.20 23:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Your brain is a help.
Knowing who might have done it is a help.
Knowing who ejected the BP is a help.
You said it right there...
Knowing who might have done it is a help.
With the current in game features, this is all you will ever find out, who MAY be a theif.
None of these tool provide you with any proof of who the theif is, they only give you places to start guessing and as we all know, assumption is the mother of all ****ups.
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Kage Getsu
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Posted - 2005.03.21 06:23:00 -
[32]
I'm guessing that the thief took the BPO from the corp hangar with access that you gave him. If that's the case, he didn't commit a crime at all. You just need to be more careful with who you give access out to.
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Elissen
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Posted - 2005.03.21 08:51:00 -
[33]
The one thing in EVE that I can not understand is the not providing the access logs to corp hangars to players and the policy where GM's won't tell you who took something. In all efforts to make EVE "realistic" this is where it totally fails.
Not to mention the other downside of it; there is also no way to prove you were innocent...
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.03.21 09:40:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Darkwolf on 21/03/2005 09:41:17
Frankly, CCP's policy of permitting grief play on such a massive scale sucks. It only succeeds in driving people out of the game, and does nothing good for the game.
Now I got that out of my system, the idea about being able to sign BPOs is a damn good one. Gives people the ability to track a BPO through the universe, and then take matters into their own hands in dealing with people who take acquisition of it.
No harder to implement than a player's employment history, and would go a LONG way to helping people help themselves.
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.03.21 09:50:00 -
[35]
Well, my opinion is that CCP panders to any corp thief, as they provide ISK sinks to keep the game balanced, in their opinion.
In the world of RL, important areas are covered by security cameras, so WHO did the act should be the easiest thing to find out. I feel that any items taken from a corp controlled hanger by anyone not with Directors ability should not be allowed to be sold or given away to another, as an alt.
Why can a thief place any stolen item on the market? Stolen items should not be allowed to be sold openly, perhaps using the Criminal Connections skill, the thief would have to find a 'fence' to sell the items at, and transport them. He would only get a fraction of the value though as would be expected.
If CCP wants corp thieves, let the thief need specialized skills to succede. Treat it as another career choice rather than just allowing blatant theft and sale of items. Make the would be thief train many skills, as everyone else needs to do, to be able to successully pull a job off without repricussions.
My final question goes out to CCP. If I station 50 Marines in a corp hanger, how is it a thief can steal items? :)
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Rangars Uncle
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Posted - 2005.03.21 11:56:00 -
[36]
Hey,
forget about that BPO. CCP is working on much more important things, like balancing some lasers or so.
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Hella May
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Posted - 2005.03.21 12:48:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sarkos
My final question goes out to CCP. If I station 50 Marines in a corp hanger, how is it a thief can steal items? :)
My way would be to introduce 50 damsells in distress or 'dancers' to distract the marines :)
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.03.21 13:13:00 -
[38]
On a related note, wouldn't it be good for all who have donated into a bounty to receive a copy of the killmail when the bounty is claimed?
Just springed to my mind.
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Galadiin Venyaa
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Posted - 2005.03.21 13:33:00 -
[39]
Question... Even if you find him... The best you can do is kill and pod him. Or even kill and pod his whole corp, but your bpo's will still be lost and he's under no obligation to give them back?
Doesn't sound right...
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Altaireus
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Posted - 2005.03.21 13:54:00 -
[40]
since the Blueprint Lockdown is on the feature list of Exodus, cant you just petition it and tell them its bugged?
..what do you mean its not implemented yet?
its on the feature list.. right?
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Galadiin Venyaa
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Posted - 2005.03.21 14:32:00 -
[41]
Brilliant Alta!
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.03.21 16:02:00 -
[42]
Agree with Disco.
Just release the name of who took it, the players can handle it from there.
¼©¼
a history |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.03.21 17:27:00 -
[43]
This is the sort of situation where tagging something as stolen would be a great feature. I'm thinking along the lines of the "signatures" above, but maybe a slightly wider functionality.
Say each item in the game can have an "owner" identity attached to it. The owner can be an individual, corp, or alliance, and costs a small fee to register the item as signed. If it's an individual, only that individual can change the signature data and use the item with station services etc. If it's a corp or alliance, make "signature control" a new role. Any member of the corp/alliance can use the item without penalty, but only those with the signature management role can sign/unsign items. All items must be unsigned before they can be sold on the market.
The original signee gets a new tab in their wallet listing registered signatures. They can use this to report a signature as stolen. At that point, customs starts looking for that signature and gives a range of responses, depending on how much the signee pays. For a small fee, it would be low-level....say, an evemail to the signee every time customs spots it, with details of who, where and when (maybe make this limited to a consolidated mail every hour if spammage becomes a problem). For higher fees, customs could be paid to pursue and retrieve the stolen item. But these fees should be so high that it wouldn't make sense to do for any but the most valuable items.
Obviously, we would then need skills on the dark-side...signature masking to hide stolen items from customs (or maybe link with smuggling when that gets in), some way to fence/de-sign etc, that, while possible, should be difficult, time consuming, and involve some expense.
The eventual aim I'm thinking of is for the thief to have a chance of thieving and fencing the goods, but make sure it takes long enough for the victim to have a chance of chasing down the trail and at least attempting to get the stuff back/get back at the thief. Tagging the item, rather than the thief would also stop the problem of passing the stolen goods through numerous alts. Charging for the signatures would also mean that only really valuable stuff would get signed - people would hardly sign every round of ammunition!
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Demarcus
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Posted - 2005.03.21 18:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Face Lifter
many of the GMs don't actually play the game and just follow the manuals and stuff.
There are no such game tools to speak off. Bottom line is that without GM/CCP intervention, the theif gets away clean
Scamming is part of the game, they say. But considering the magnitude of your problem, it'd be nice if CCP made an exception and returned the goods. They could make a story about how CONCORD officials caught the guy and stuff.. it'd be a good event and make the game seem more alive.
Why should CCP replace his loss? Isn't he the one that gave the thief access. I mean give me a break and cry me a river. That is why they call it getting robbed.
-------------------------------------
You are all worthless, and weak.
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Naverin
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Posted - 2005.03.21 18:07:00 -
[45]
I gave no one access. I have recently been handed the reigns of the corp due to directors and ceo's taking breaks for RL issues.
Maybe im a fool for not going over security when i was given command. Maybe I should be drug out back and hit with a shovel for being a fool and actually "Trusting" friends ive made playing this game..
Maybe i should go play a 1 player game that doesnt require player interaction..and live in my basement for the rest of my life shunting off human interaction :/
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.21 18:20:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Why should CCP replace his loss? Isn't he the one that gave the thief access. I mean give me a break and cry me a river. That is why they call it getting robbed.
And where is the justice in the world of EVE? Why are thieves and scammers justified, while the victims are laughed at and accused of being retards?
You know what makes any society great? 2 things, freedom and security. By itself, freedom does not imply security. A bad guy is free to do dirty deeds, gangs in Sudan are free to kill each other all they want. Likewise, security does not imply freedom. More security typically means less freedom.
Do you want all EVE companies to be run with ****-like security and paranoia? What's the point of having a company where only the CEO controls everything and nobody else can be trusted?
What kind of society does not protect its constituents against theft and financial scams? Only those ravaged by war and genocide.
Sure, piracy and stuff is acceptable in a game, if it takes skill, if it takes work, if there is risk involved. Where's the risk of opening your corp hangar, seeing someone's careless error of putting extremely valuable goods and taking them? where's risk? where's work?
You think the guy who took those BPOs actually worked to pull it off? no, he just got lucky, or just decided to go bad on whim.
GMs can act as police. They won't catch everyone, hardly, but they can "solve" some cases. They could even punish people for such theft, maybe with bad security standing and a fine. That would make people think twice. And then if someone does pull off a robbery and gets away with it clean, then it could be something remotely respectable.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.03.21 18:26:00 -
[47]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 21/03/2005 18:26:31
Originally by: Discorporation
The only thing we need is logging of who took what.
No policing, no 3rd parties giving back bpo's.
Just logs.
Audit log secure containers?
Mai's Idealog |
Cap'n NoBeard
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Posted - 2005.03.21 18:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Audit log secure containers?
Can't they bypass that by just taking the whole container in that case? 
♥ me, ♥ my parrot.
Yarr! |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.03.21 20:55:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cap'n NoBeard
Can't they bypass that by just taking the whole container in that case?
Not unless you've given them Take Container access to that hangar.
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Threat
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Posted - 2005.03.22 14:50:00 -
[50]
Random seed has now posted a new auction for your Sig Amp BPO. Just an FYI
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