EVE Search - EMP and Antimatter blows now

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Vacuole	Posted - 2003.07.04 01:27:00 - [1] That's right, look at the range bonus for those. Now look at something like Tatanium sabot (projectile) or Uranium charges (hybrid) and the range modifiers are much lower and tolerable. I guess the days of the EMP/AM rule is over.
Vacuole Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2003.07.04 01:27:00 - [2] That's right, look at the range bonus for those. Now look at something like Tatanium sabot (projectile) or Uranium charges (hybrid) and the range modifiers are much lower and tolerable. I guess the days of the EMP/AM rule is over.
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2003.07.04 01:44:00 - [3] Now people will actually use the other ammo. Before it was like counter-strike, they kept adding guns but did anyone really use anything but m4, ak, awp, and DE? No... Edited by: Letifer Deus on 04/07/2003 01:45:45 I am the OG PIIIIIMP
Letifer Deus The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2003.07.04 01:44:00 - [4] Now people will actually use the other ammo. Before it was like counter-strike, they kept adding guns but did anyone really use anything but m4, ak, awp, and DE? No... Edited by: Letifer Deus on 04/07/2003 01:45:45 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Vacuole	Posted - 2003.07.04 02:02:00 - [5] Yeah. I think my post sounded a little negative. I wrote it in haste. I'm thrilled with the changes. Never could figure out how EMP was such a hard hitter regardless of range.
Vacuole Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2003.07.04 02:02:00 - [6] Yeah. I think my post sounded a little negative. I wrote it in haste. I'm thrilled with the changes. Never could figure out how EMP was such a hard hitter regardless of range.
Cezanne	Posted - 2003.07.04 02:20:00 - [7] It's definitely an improvement. Pre-patch: Only one type of ammo made sense, Antimatter in the case of Hybrids. Post-patch: A range of ammo is failing into the useful range depending upon which guns you are fitting and what role those guns are playing in your tactics; I am guessing that Iridium Thorium Uranium and Plutonium all fall into this category. Is anyone using Iron Lead Tungsten or Antimatter though? If not these could probably do with a bit of un-nerfing to bring them up a bit. Clearly the ideal situation would be ALL ammo types being useful and used, for different load outs & tactics. The lasest patch took a large step in the right direction. In a week or so CCP should be able to stand back and plan the next one.
Cezanne Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2003.07.04 02:20:00 - [8] It's definitely an improvement. Pre-patch: Only one type of ammo made sense, Antimatter in the case of Hybrids. Post-patch: A range of ammo is failing into the useful range depending upon which guns you are fitting and what role those guns are playing in your tactics; I am guessing that Iridium Thorium Uranium and Plutonium all fall into this category. Is anyone using Iron Lead Tungsten or Antimatter though? If not these could probably do with a bit of un-nerfing to bring them up a bit. Clearly the ideal situation would be ALL ammo types being useful and used, for different load outs & tactics. The lasest patch took a large step in the right direction. In a week or so CCP should be able to stand back and plan the next one.
Tnelyos	Posted - 2003.07.04 06:47:00 - [9] antimatter is still good on the fast tracking turrets. their range is low anyway, so the range penalty doesn't hurt too much.
Tnelyos	Posted - 2003.07.04 06:47:00 - [10] antimatter is still good on the fast tracking turrets. their range is low anyway, so the range penalty doesn't hurt too much.
Bulk Paint	Posted - 2003.07.04 10:22:00 - [11] I'm glad the new changes have gone in. The other ammo types are actually worth considering now, depending on your tactics of course. Granted there was a short period of time when I was getting my arse handed to me in a bag as suddenly my Antimatter rounds couldn't reach anyone, but I'm getting the hang of it. ------------------------------------------------------------ Bulk Paint Lost In Space
Bulk Paint Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2003.07.04 10:22:00 - [12] I'm glad the new changes have gone in. The other ammo types are actually worth considering now, depending on your tactics of course. Granted there was a short period of time when I was getting my arse handed to me in a bag as suddenly my Antimatter rounds couldn't reach anyone, but I'm getting the hang of it. ------------------------------------------------------------ Bulk Paint Lost In Space
Erick Thakrar	Posted - 2003.07.04 15:13:00 - [13] Granted the ammo range modifiers needed badly to be implemented and so did the fixing of the various damage modifier stacking bugs with modules and such. But, and this is a big one, it was not necessary to further increase the range modifier on EMP M and it was NOT necessary to so thoroughly nerf the tracking rate and ammo capacity of these guns. Not to mention the ROF as well. Well I can live with a lower ROF, but the tracking rate is the killer. Hell, I might as well switch to small turrets since they still have a decent modifier and the tracking range is much better. Most of the non-artillery projectile weapons are worse than useless. I do more damage with a 250MM Scout artillery than I do with a Dual 180MM Carbine Repeating Cannon. Not necessarily because each hit does more damage on the 250MM Scout, but simply because I hit more often and at longer ranges. This even counts for when going against NPC Pirate Cruisers. That is so wrong on so many levels. Oddly enough it seems that lasers have largely escaped the ridiculous nerfing that Projectile turrets got. My single Heavy Modulated Laser still hits for a round a 100 damage with a Multifrequency crystal at about 10 clicks. And I only have lvl2 Med Energy Turret. Oh and putting an ammo cap of 20 rounds in a gun that has a ROF at about 3 seconds is brain dead. These nerfs were not necessary. You could have balanced them nicely by cutting ammo cap in half, implementing the existing range mods (EMP M with a -50% to range is bull****!) and fixing the damage mods stacking bugs. Everything would have been just fine. But no, you had to break out the Dinosaur Killer and nuke the site from orbit. The only way to be sure, eh?!? CCP needs to make up their mind. Not too long ago, they upped the damage that proj was making cause they weren't doing enough damage and now all of a sudden you nerf them to a point where they suck more than they did before you increased their damage!!! Make up your DAMN Minds!!! Ya Hya Chouhada!!!
Erick Thakrar Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2003.07.04 15:13:00 - [14] Granted the ammo range modifiers needed badly to be implemented and so did the fixing of the various damage modifier stacking bugs with modules and such. But, and this is a big one, it was not necessary to further increase the range modifier on EMP M and it was NOT necessary to so thoroughly nerf the tracking rate and ammo capacity of these guns. Not to mention the ROF as well. Well I can live with a lower ROF, but the tracking rate is the killer. Hell, I might as well switch to small turrets since they still have a decent modifier and the tracking range is much better. Most of the non-artillery projectile weapons are worse than useless. I do more damage with a 250MM Scout artillery than I do with a Dual 180MM Carbine Repeating Cannon. Not necessarily because each hit does more damage on the 250MM Scout, but simply because I hit more often and at longer ranges. This even counts for when going against NPC Pirate Cruisers. That is so wrong on so many levels. Oddly enough it seems that lasers have largely escaped the ridiculous nerfing that Projectile turrets got. My single Heavy Modulated Laser still hits for a round a 100 damage with a Multifrequency crystal at about 10 clicks. And I only have lvl2 Med Energy Turret. Oh and putting an ammo cap of 20 rounds in a gun that has a ROF at about 3 seconds is brain dead. These nerfs were not necessary. You could have balanced them nicely by cutting ammo cap in half, implementing the existing range mods (EMP M with a -50% to range is bull****!) and fixing the damage mods stacking bugs. Everything would have been just fine. But no, you had to break out the Dinosaur Killer and nuke the site from orbit. The only way to be sure, eh?!? CCP needs to make up their mind. Not too long ago, they upped the damage that proj was making cause they weren't doing enough damage and now all of a sudden you nerf them to a point where they suck more than they did before you increased their damage!!! Make up your DAMN Minds!!! Ya Hya Chouhada!!!
Random	Posted - 2003.07.04 15:24:00 - [15] i think the reson lasers are this good is becous now its wery easy to counter them with all the new platings.
Random Amarr Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2003.07.04 15:24:00 - [16] i think the reson lasers are this good is becous now its wery easy to counter them with all the new platings.
Nekayah	Posted - 2003.07.04 18:10:00 - [17] EMP is still working okay for me. I definitely see a difference in my ammo usage though. And I tend to pull off a cruiser or a few frigates at a time, rather than just blowing through them, but EMP is effective. I will play with the others again now though, to see what fits my style best.
Nekayah	Posted - 2003.07.04 18:10:00 - [18] EMP is still working okay for me. I definitely see a difference in my ammo usage though. And I tend to pull off a cruiser or a few frigates at a time, rather than just blowing through them, but EMP is effective. I will play with the others again now though, to see what fits my style best.
Ilyana	Posted - 2003.07.04 21:58:00 - [19] EMP doesn't blow at all...neither does AM for hybrids. Just use it to tackle the right situation. Excellent ammo for short-range combat (for example holding off frigates). In fact, the ammo range 'penalties' give you even more (tactical) variation. You can switch ammo type and change a long range gun to a medium range gun, and a medium range gun to a short range gun (altho tracking speed might become a problem when 'switching the range' of guns). Gain of ammo switching at the right time can also include higher damage since the high dmg ammo tend to have a higher range penalty. You have to time the exact moments to switch to other ammo (or weaponry if reloading takes too much time), better suited for the new distance. I like it a lot, but it really should've been in the game right from the start. Edited by: Ilyana on 04/07/2003 22:06:21
Ilyana Brutor tribe	Posted - 2003.07.04 21:58:00 - [20] EMP doesn't blow at all...neither does AM for hybrids. Just use it to tackle the right situation. Excellent ammo for short-range combat (for example holding off frigates). In fact, the ammo range 'penalties' give you even more (tactical) variation. You can switch ammo type and change a long range gun to a medium range gun, and a medium range gun to a short range gun (altho tracking speed might become a problem when 'switching the range' of guns). Gain of ammo switching at the right time can also include higher damage since the high dmg ammo tend to have a higher range penalty. You have to time the exact moments to switch to other ammo (or weaponry if reloading takes too much time), better suited for the new distance. I like it a lot, but it really should've been in the game right from the start. Edited by: Ilyana on 04/07/2003 22:06:21
Derran	Posted - 2003.07.04 22:08:00 - [21] Actually, them putting the same range penalty on projectile ammo as the hybrid was damn necessary. I am still not sure why I would want to use hybrids on my Gallentean cruiser (which is supposed to get a bonus to hybrid turret damage). All my medium weapon skills are the same level. The projectiles I used pre-patch on my Thorax were the 650MM and I used phased plasma which was supposed have a 30% range reduction (emp I think was 35%). I am still not sure now why would I want to use a 250MM hybrid (which takes 50 more power grid and consumes almost 20 times more power per shot) that uses antimatter ammo that has a -50% (-60% pre-patch) range penalty and yet only does 2 points more damage than phased plasma which has a smaller range penalty? The balance doesn't seem quite there with range mods in but it is definitely better than before. I still have a 4.4 modifier with the projectiles that use 1 point of energy vs a 3.4 with the railguns that use 19 energy. Maybe I am missing something. Edited by: Derran on 04/07/2003 22:09:15
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2003.07.04 22:08:00 - [22] Actually, them putting the same range penalty on projectile ammo as the hybrid was damn necessary. I am still not sure why I would want to use hybrids on my Gallentean cruiser (which is supposed to get a bonus to hybrid turret damage). All my medium weapon skills are the same level. The projectiles I used pre-patch on my Thorax were the 650MM and I used phased plasma which was supposed have a 30% range reduction (emp I think was 35%). I am still not sure now why would I want to use a 250MM hybrid (which takes 50 more power grid and consumes almost 20 times more power per shot) that uses antimatter ammo that has a -50% (-60% pre-patch) range penalty and yet only does 2 points more damage than phased plasma which has a smaller range penalty? The balance doesn't seem quite there with range mods in but it is definitely better than before. I still have a 4.4 modifier with the projectiles that use 1 point of energy vs a 3.4 with the railguns that use 19 energy. Maybe I am missing something. Edited by: Derran on 04/07/2003 22:09:15
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.07.05 11:46:00 - [23] I love the new range modifier system... My favorite ammo for hybrid right now is probably iridiam. Long range and still tolerable dmg. Also The more powerful ammo will still be used but more in the closer range guns or in a situation where ur guns out range the enemy even with AM ammo. That long range stuff is also helpful like tungsten, 150mm rail guns can hit effectivly out to like 17-19k(with the right ammo)
Lartfor Gallente Internet Tough Guys Inc.	Posted - 2003.07.05 11:46:00 - [24] I love the new range modifier system... My favorite ammo for hybrid right now is probably iridiam. Long range and still tolerable dmg. Also The more powerful ammo will still be used but more in the closer range guns or in a situation where ur guns out range the enemy even with AM ammo. That long range stuff is also helpful like tungsten, 150mm rail guns can hit effectivly out to like 17-19k(with the right ammo)
Demosthenes	Posted - 2003.07.05 12:02:00 - [25] The dreaded nerf patch is upon us! :) It isn't that bad, as some hybrid ammo actually extends range now. But yes, anti is no longer the only answer to "what is the best ammo?" Thorium, Iridium and others offer more now. What our medium size corp is gonna do with 40k rounds of Anti S I'm not sure.... In general it's too bad that we all do less damage. 'Cept can-spawning, gate-camping PKers. Nerf them dudes.
Demosthenes	Posted - 2003.07.05 12:02:00 - [26] The dreaded nerf patch is upon us! :) It isn't that bad, as some hybrid ammo actually extends range now. But yes, anti is no longer the only answer to "what is the best ammo?" Thorium, Iridium and others offer more now. What our medium size corp is gonna do with 40k rounds of Anti S I'm not sure.... In general it's too bad that we all do less damage. 'Cept can-spawning, gate-camping PKers. Nerf them dudes.
Presidio	Posted - 2003.07.05 13:58:00 - [27] Hello everyone, Ok I like that they finally fixed the range modifier, on ammo and crystals, but check this out: I used to use dual 425mm scout artys and they rocked before the patch. After the patch they rename this weapon, instead of 160 ammo rounds now it only holds 20, they nerfed the tracking by 5 times: used to be 0.03 and now it's 0.006, rate of fire got nerfed too. This gun is so bad now, that small medium modulated energy beams outperform it in every aspect, so I switched to small medium modulated lasers. lol Great job devs, now I have 800 powergrid extra that is not being used. I don't use any ammo, nor capacitor, and I can hit anything close range and med range, sweet, I love this patch !!! not - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Presidio Brutor tribe	Posted - 2003.07.05 13:58:00 - [28] Hello everyone, Ok I like that they finally fixed the range modifier, on ammo and crystals, but check this out: I used to use dual 425mm scout artys and they rocked before the patch. After the patch they rename this weapon, instead of 160 ammo rounds now it only holds 20, they nerfed the tracking by 5 times: used to be 0.03 and now it's 0.006, rate of fire got nerfed too. This gun is so bad now, that small medium modulated energy beams outperform it in every aspect, so I switched to small medium modulated lasers. lol Great job devs, now I have 800 powergrid extra that is not being used. I don't use any ammo, nor capacitor, and I can hit anything close range and med range, sweet, I love this patch !!! not -
Orbit	Posted - 2003.07.05 15:19:00 - [29] Depending on your skills and equipment, the impact of implementing the distance modifications of ammo doesn't have to be that big of a deal. For example, before the patch I was using AM medium in 250 Proto Gauss Rails. My Sharpshooter skill was at level 4 (+20%). My optimum range was like 29km or something, plus the falloff of 10km meant I could hit from pretty darn far out. Now, same weapons, same ammo, same skills, and my optimum is like 14.5km, but the 10km falloff is still there too. As a result, I can hit just fine at around 20km or so, which is more than enough range to be able to fight even a 50k pirate spawn without getting roasted. Less margin for error, yes, but not catastrophic. As with all things, with the right combination of equipment and skills, many things are possible. Just food for thought...
Orbit Gallente Galactex	Posted - 2003.07.05 15:19:00 - [30] Depending on your skills and equipment, the impact of implementing the distance modifications of ammo doesn't have to be that big of a deal. For example, before the patch I was using AM medium in 250 Proto Gauss Rails. My Sharpshooter skill was at level 4 (+20%). My optimum range was like 29km or something, plus the falloff of 10km meant I could hit from pretty darn far out. Now, same weapons, same ammo, same skills, and my optimum is like 14.5km, but the 10km falloff is still there too. As a result, I can hit just fine at around 20km or so, which is more than enough range to be able to fight even a 50k pirate spawn without getting roasted. Less margin for error, yes, but not catastrophic. As with all things, with the right combination of equipment and skills, many things are possible. Just food for thought...

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