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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 22 post(s)
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 490	Posted - 2012.11.01 17:57:00 - [181] - Quote WolfSchwarzMond wrote: Also while this is a very good thing for Cap Pilots it's gonna suck for Orcas. With the recent changes to Barges we now have to carry a large number of mining crystals to support the fleets. Removing the divisions and adding cargo cans will make it more of a pain to deal with then it is now. Somehow a container in a fleet hangar is going to be harder than a division in a corp hangar?
Alua Oresson Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension 146	Posted - 2012.11.01 17:59:00 - [182] - Quote Sinzor Aumer wrote: noone is going to use supers as haulers anyway ;-) I really do hope that this was meant in sarcasm. You can't tell sometimes though. http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Lord Haur Grim Determination Nulli Secunda 36	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:03:00 - [183] - Quote (Slightly re-organised for better grouping) CCP Greyscale wrote: Ok, so here's our current complete plan: Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI All excellent changes. However, it would be nice to have a fleet hanger view-only option. Yes, containers as proposed would provide some workaround for this, but if we happen to not have any spare/non-full containers on hand... Quote: Corp hangars on ships are now fleet hangars Volumes will all stay the same Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3) For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning) About as good as it gets without a full re-introduction of divisions. Assuming that use of containers will not be restricted to non-compressive cans only, it represents a real-term increase in the fleet hanger capacity due to the use of GSCs for storage of spare fuel/stront, which often make up a large portion of the volume stored. Somewhat less useful for titans, obviously. WRT the new containers, can we get some input on their sizes? I think cans of 5k, 10k, 20k, and 50k would be most useful. The 1k is slightly meh, most will use the compressive HSC (1950/1500) or LSC(780/650) instead. Also brings me to another topic, why do the three smallest cans have a compression ratio of 1.2:1, compared to the 1.3:1 of GSC/HSCs? Presuming it's to do with the fact that the smaller cans will fit in many ship's standard cargobays. Quote: Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :) -Greyscale Obviously a very controversial change.
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 279	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:05:00 - [184] - Quote WolfSchwarzMond wrote: The removal of wrapping will imho destroy the entire Courier Contract System. No. WolfSchwarzMond wrote: Gankers will now know exactly what's being hauled. So ganking will just get worse. No. Since gankers already expect unscannable cargo to be worth ganking, why else hide it? So ganking will mostly likely be less, since there's a lot of poor sods who try to run an empty Orca through camped pipes who are getting ganked because they could have been carrying stuff. WolfSchwarzMond wrote: The hauler will now know what he's hauling leading to more theft of the Courier Contract unless you have a large Collateral, if the collateral is too large people won't take the contract at all. Why would anyone send stuff by courier that is worth more that the collateral? That plain stupid. It's why there are collaterals in the first place. And if the collateral is to high, then maybe you should ponder moving it yourself, since it's obviously not economically sane to send it by someone else?
GeeShizzle MacCloud 229	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:10:00 - [185] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: WolfSchwarzMond wrote: Also while this is a very good thing for Cap Pilots it's gonna suck for Orcas. With the recent changes to Barges we now have to carry a large number of mining crystals to support the fleets. Removing the divisions and adding cargo cans will make it more of a pain to deal with then it is now. Somehow a container in a fleet hangar is going to be harder than a division in a corp hangar? especially when u can have as many or as few as u want and u can name them independently
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 279	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:10:00 - [186] - Quote CCP GingerDude wrote: I'll go back to my corner now. Noo! Stay with us, we'll bring cookies and cupcakes! Most of will take even serious nerfs to our favourite exploits, erh functions, as long as we get a decent (and nerdy) explanation why. ps. And yes, "the code required would make baby jesus cry" is a valid explanation, once. ds.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10215	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:14:00 - [187] - Quote Onoz! My 100% safe Orca hauls! Lors Dornick wrote: Will it really be that controversial? It's like doublewrapped cargo (normally in a freigther). Doublewrap (or corphangar) doesn't protect anyone from ganks, it just adds some more guesswork and random chance (multiplied by level of boredom by the gankers in waiting). No, it's nothing like that. At the moment, corp hangars completely protect from ganks: there is no guesswork and no random chance because nothing drops from them. Right now, there is no point in ganking an Orca because the most you will get out of it is an invuln field and some salvage. Everything else goes kablooie (well, unless the pilot has been daft and put stuff in the cargo hold). You can stuff every PLEX in jita in an Orca right now and no-one will know, and no-one will ever have any reason to gank you. In comparison, double-wrapping in a freighter only tells your attackers that you're hiding something valuable, but they can see this clear as day and they can gamble on it dropping. Neither is true for the current hangars. So of course it will be controversial when they go from zero exposure and drop (and zero risk as a result) to total exposure and drop (and normal risk). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
WolfSchwarzMond Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore 36	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:24:00 - [188] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: WolfSchwarzMond wrote: Also while this is a very good thing for Cap Pilots it's gonna suck for Orcas. With the recent changes to Barges we now have to carry a large number of mining crystals to support the fleets. Removing the divisions and adding cargo cans will make it more of a pain to deal with then it is now. Somehow a container in a fleet hangar is going to be harder than a division in a corp hangar? Yes. Orca's function as Haulers as well. So it will be open a can to get crystals then open the main Fleet hanger to dump ore in. When running multiple clients your adding 5-6 mouse moves and clicks per client
Pierced Brosmen Obstergo Exhale. 105	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:48:00 - [189] - Quote WolfSchwarzMond wrote: The removal of wrapping will imho destroy the entire Courier Contract System. Gankers will now know exactly what's being hauled. So ganking will just get worse. The hauler will now know what he's hauling leading to more theft of the Courier Contract unless you have a large Collateral, if the collateral is too large people won't take the contract at all. Just to clarify... With the current system, unless a courier contract is double wrapped, gankers can still see what is in the plastic wrapping... And regardless of it being single wrap, double wrap or wrapped containers, the hauler can see what's inside.
Lord Haur Grim Determination Nulli Secunda 36	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:12:00 - [190] - Quote WolfSchwarzMond wrote: Rengerel en Distel wrote: WolfSchwarzMond wrote: Also while this is a very good thing for Cap Pilots it's gonna suck for Orcas. With the recent changes to Barges we now have to carry a large number of mining crystals to support the fleets. Removing the divisions and adding cargo cans will make it more of a pain to deal with then it is now. Somehow a container in a fleet hangar is going to be harder than a division in a corp hangar? Yes. Orca's function as Haulers as well. So it will be open a can to get crystals then open the main Fleet hanger to dump ore in. When running multiple clients your adding 5-6 mouse moves and clicks per client You mean, open Fleet Hangar to get crystals (items cannot be removed from containers except by the pilot), then dump ore in the same fleet hangar/inside a container within said hangar.
M'uva Wa'eva Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog 15	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:18:00 - [191] - Quote WolfSchwarzMond wrote: The hauler will now know what he's hauling leading to more theft of the Courier Contract unless you have a large Collateral, if the collateral is too large people won't take the contract at all. You do realise that at present, the entire contents of any courier contract are viewable while in station, the number of layers of plastic wrap and/or containers notwithstanding? So there is no change to this.
Pierced Brosmen Obstergo Exhale. 105	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:23:00 - [192] - Quote M'uva Wa'eva wrote: You do realise that at present, the entire contents of any courier contract are viewable while in station, the number of layers of plastic wrap and/or containers notwithstanding? So there is no change to this. It's also viewable in space
Tanaka Aiko ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation 123	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:28:00 - [193] - Quote CCP GingerDude wrote: Don't read so much into what I typed. My gripe is solely with the fact that "plastic wraps" have variable volume and that's a pain I wan't to get rid of. There are more ways around that then just flat out removing them from the game ... I'll go back to my corner now. You (well not you as you especially :p) began nerfing things, so either you nerf everyone equally (orca hangar AND frighters courrier contrats) either you nerf no one. Or else it's not fair. I'm tired of CCP nerfing things without thinking to consequences, and iterating on these only months/years later.
m0jo STEEL CITY. Tribal Band 2	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:50:00 - [194] - Quote #50 Posted: 2012.10.20 01:16 \| Edited by: CCP Habakuk Scanning: Items in the fleet hangar can not be scanned by cargo scanners - this has not changed. Customs officials on the other hand will find items in the fleet hangar - this has also not changed compared with the corp hangar on TQ. #136 Posted: 2012.11.01 13:04 \| Edited by: CCP Greyscale Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) So what happened here? Who had the brain fart? Also why not work on functions in the game that are broken, like say high sec ganking? High sec ganking is completely broken with no penalties at all considering what the gain is.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10218	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:56:00 - [195] - Quote m0jo wrote: So what happened here? Who had the brain fart? Also why not work on functions in the game that are broken, like say high sec ganking? High sec ganking is completely broken with no penalties at all considering what the gain is. Being able to transport things completely safe from scans and robberies is pretty broken. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.

CCP Habakuk C C P C C P Alliance 306	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:58:00 - [196] - Quote m0jo wrote: #50 Posted: 2012.10.20 01:16 \| Edited by: CCP Habakuk Scanning: Items in the fleet hangar can not be scanned by cargo scanners - this has not changed. Customs officials on the other hand will find items in the fleet hangar - this has also not changed compared with the corp hangar on TQ. #136 Posted: 2012.11.01 13:04 \| Edited by: CCP Greyscale Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) So what happened here? Who had the brain fart? Also why not work on functions in the game that are broken, like say high sec ganking? High sec ganking is completely broken with no penalties at all considering what the gain is. The design changed, mostly based on the feedback in this thread. I have to agree, that it makes much more sense to be able to scan stuff in the fleet hangars and that this stuff drops as loot. CCP Habakuk \| EVE Quality Assurance \| Team Gridlock Writing bug reports \| Mass tests

BlitZ Kotare Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore 14	Posted - 2012.11.01 19:59:00 - [197] - Quote I only skimmed most of the thread. CCP Habakuk wrote: Team Gridlock has been working in the last months mostly on improving server-side parts of the inventory system (and related systems). Many of the changes won't be visible to the player (except that a few old bugs should be gone), but there are a few important changes, which are now on Duality for testing: Fleet hangars: Corporation hangars on capital ships and Orcas have been converted into fleet hangars. These fleet hangars have no divisions and corp roles are irrelevant. A horrible horrible horrible horrible change. Don't take away divisions, they're used mainly for organization. Most cap/super pilots like and use these. For the most part roles are irrelevant, we'd like to be able to give access to our fleet regardless if they're in our corp, so checkbox per division? The only other option for organization inside a corp hangar would be containers, which is horrible because it really limits what you can do with the space because the container, whether empty or full, takes up the same amount of room. Quote: It is always possible to use the fitting service of the SMB of a corp member and a fleet member Love this!! Quote: Corp members can access both the SMB and the fleet hangar with the setting "Allow corp member usage" Fleet members can access both the SMB and the fleet hangar with the setting "Allow fleet member usage" Good, this is the kind of granularity we actually want. But keep the corp hangar divisons!! And actually, it would be great to have some divisions in the SMA's storage as well. I'd like to be able to hand out fleet dictors from my super w/o everyone in the fleet also being able to steal my pimp fit Loki. Quote: Lots more :words: from the OP Storing Settings on the server for hangar divisions? Love it. Storing PW on the server? Probably not a good idea, there's too many ways this can be abused. Find some happy medium where the PW is stored in the ship, but only while it's piloted by the same character. I'd love to be able to get into a PW'd pos in my cap/super, log off and when I log back in safely land inside that same POS. But the trouble comes when I'm selling, loaning or contracting a ship and the pw goes with it. Way too much potential for abuse there, when the pilot leaves the ship the PW should blank again. Audit log containers working better? I'm all for that. While you're at it, whenever you get around to actually working on corp/alliance roles, it would be great if it was WAY WAY more clear who can do what to the containers inside corp hangar divisions. Right now you literally have to trial-and-error config them using an alt with the role you want to have access or another person because the permissions are worded so oddly and it's not clear who can do what. Oh, and leave my plastic wrap alone or come up with some other kind of variable sized container for use with courier contracts. Plastic wrap is an inherent part of the system currently, and I can't tell you how frustrating it would be (and I say this as someone who has done some significant JF and Freighter work, moving literally millions of m3 that didn't belong to me) to have to deal with loose items belonging to every person who's stuff I move. Hands down, I would instantly quit moving other people's stuff, it'd be way too damn frustrating trying to figure out where pile X of hydrogen topes was supposed to go.
m0jo STEEL CITY. Tribal Band 2	Posted - 2012.11.01 20:00:00 - [198] - Quote CCP Habakuk wrote: m0jo wrote: #50 Posted: 2012.10.20 01:16 \| Edited by: CCP Habakuk Scanning: Items in the fleet hangar can not be scanned by cargo scanners - this has not changed. Customs officials on the other hand will find items in the fleet hangar - this has also not changed compared with the corp hangar on TQ. #136 Posted: 2012.11.01 13:04 \| Edited by: CCP Greyscale Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) So what happened here? Who had the brain fart? Also why not work on functions in the game that are broken, like say high sec ganking? High sec ganking is completely broken with no penalties at all considering what the gain is. The design changed, mostly based on the feedback in this thread. I have to agree, that it makes much more sense to be able to scan stuff in the fleet hangars and that this stuff drops as loot. Then would you agree that high sec ganking is broken with small penalties considering the gain? If so why not change it?
m0jo STEEL CITY. Tribal Band 2	Posted - 2012.11.01 20:02:00 - [199] - Quote Tippia wrote: m0jo wrote: So what happened here? Who had the brain fart? Also why not work on functions in the game that are broken, like say high sec ganking? High sec ganking is completely broken with no penalties at all considering what the gain is. Being able to transport things completely safe from scans and robberies is pretty broken. Scans yes robberies no. Just because you cannot scan contents of certain ships does not mean you cannot kill them. In high sec that is.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon 168	Posted - 2012.11.01 20:08:00 - [200] - Quote BlitZ Kotare wrote: Quote: Corp members can access both the SMB and the fleet hangar with the setting "Allow corp member usage" Fleet members can access both the SMB and the fleet hangar with the setting "Allow fleet member usage" Good, this is the kind of granularity we actually want. But keep the corp hangar divisons!! And actually, it would be great to have some divisions in the SMA's storage as well. I'd like to be able to hand out fleet dictors from my super w/o everyone in the fleet also being able to steal my pimp fit Loki. Just put it in a secure can
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10218	Posted - 2012.11.01 20:13:00 - [201] - Quote m0jo wrote: Scans yes robberies no. Just because you cannot scan contents of certain ships does not mean you cannot kill them. In high sec that is. Highsec is not a factor. And no, both were quite broken. Being able to appear as if you're carrying nothing when you're full of stuff rather removes the point of having cargo scans. Even wrapping your valuables showed up as you carrying something. And stuff not dropping was just wrong in every way GÇö if you bring it out of the station is should be lootable. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
m0jo STEEL CITY. Tribal Band 2	Posted - 2012.11.01 20:32:00 - [202] - Quote Tippia wrote: m0jo wrote: Scans yes robberies no. Just because you cannot scan contents of certain ships does not mean you cannot kill them. In high sec that is. Highsec is not a factor. And no, both were quite broken. Being able to appear as if you're carrying nothing when you're full of stuff rather removes the point of having cargo scans. Even wrapping your valuables showed up as you carrying something. And stuff not dropping was just wrong in every way GÇö if you bring it out of the station is should be lootable. I agree you should be able to loot from any ship. However there are always counters to almost everything in the game. Orca was the counter to cargo scanning. So no being able to appear as if you're carrying nothing when you're full of stuff does not remove the point of having cargo scans. It is a counter the only one for this type of play(Highsec ganking). And highsec is a factor, it's the only factor with the discussion you and I are having. If we were referring to lowsec or nullsec we wouldnt be arguing over whether or not the cargo should be scanned because you could just kill the ship. Look my point is this, Highsec ganking is way too easy. It is however also a gamble of sorts aswell because you dont know what loot will drop from ships. But there are not enough penalties with highsec ganking. Losing your ship and just a little security status with a 15 minute timer is not nearly enough considering the gain. Oh btw I highsec gank for fun sometimes so I know what I am talking about.
Rain Kaessinde Adhocracy Incorporated 5	Posted - 2012.11.01 20:35:00 - [203] - Quote Are you changing POS SMAs to allow storage of ships carrying containers? Are you providing some way for containers to be repackaged outside of a station? Bonus Round: Are containers inside your own ship still "not within your reach" for renaming?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10220	Posted - 2012.11.01 20:49:00 - [204] - Quote m0jo wrote: I agree you should be able to loot from any ship. However there are always counters to almost everything in the game. Orca was the counter to cargo scanning. It wasn't so much a counter as an obsoleteGÇªrGÇª ehm yeah. Double-wrapping would be a good counter. Some kind of scan-jammer would be a good counter. Making a module meaningless is not a good counter. Quote: And highsec is a factor, it's the only factor with the discussion you and I are having. No, it's not a factor. The exact same mechanics hold true for all space, and it's broken regardless where it happens. Quote: Look my point is this, Highsec ganking is way too easy. Nah. If it were, we'd see a lot more of it and it would be difficult to avoid. As it is, it's a ridiculously rare and easily avoidable event. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
R0ot North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 47	Posted - 2012.11.01 21:10:00 - [205] - Quote Will this affect NPC Custom ships scanning?
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 702	Posted - 2012.11.01 22:11:00 - [206] - Quote CCP Habakuk wrote: m0jo wrote: #50 Posted: 2012.10.20 01:16 \| Edited by: CCP Habakuk Scanning: Items in the fleet hangar can not be scanned by cargo scanners - this has not changed. Customs officials on the other hand will find items in the fleet hangar - this has also not changed compared with the corp hangar on TQ. #136 Posted: 2012.11.01 13:04 \| Edited by: CCP Greyscale Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) So what happened here? Who had the brain fart? Also why not work on functions in the game that are broken, like say high sec ganking? High sec ganking is completely broken with no penalties at all considering what the gain is. The design changed, mostly based on the feedback in this thread. I have to agree, that it makes much more sense to be able to scan stuff in the fleet hangars and that this stuff drops as loot. I agree, this is a logical change. It's not really a nerf or buff to suicide ganking, just expanding the potential range of targets. If anything, this might take some pressure off the freighter and hauler guys since they're not the only game in town anymore. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com
Aprudena Gist GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 15	Posted - 2012.11.01 22:25:00 - [207] - Quote CCP Habakuk wrote: m0jo wrote: #50 Posted: 2012.10.20 01:16 \| Edited by: CCP Habakuk Scanning: Items in the fleet hangar can not be scanned by cargo scanners - this has not changed. Customs officials on the other hand will find items in the fleet hangar - this has also not changed compared with the corp hangar on TQ. #136 Posted: 2012.11.01 13:04 \| Edited by: CCP Greyscale Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) So what happened here? Who had the brain fart? Also why not work on functions in the game that are broken, like say high sec ganking? High sec ganking is completely broken with no penalties at all considering what the gain is. The design changed, mostly based on the feedback in this thread. I have to agree, that it makes much more sense to be able to scan stuff in the fleet hangars and that this stuff drops as loot. So what about the other 3 types of hangers then?
Alice Katsuko Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing 143	Posted - 2012.11.01 23:05:00 - [208] - Quote Would it be possible to allow a capital ship pilot to create subdivisions in his ship's SMA and CMA, and set access to those? For example, to create a 'fleet' division and a 'personal' division; the 'fleet' division would allow access to fleet members; the 'personal' division would not. This system would not be based on corp roles, but solely on the choices of the ship's pilot. Not really necessary for CMAs (the new fleet hangars) since items for not for public consumption will simply be placed into containers, but would be nice for the SMAs. The purpose is to allow capital ship pilots to control access to SMA assets with greater granularity. A carrier pilot may want to put a bunch of interdictors into the public section of his SMA, but not his pimp loki, to borrow an example.

CCP Greyscale C C P C C P Alliance 1662	Posted - 2012.11.01 23:25:00 - [209] - Quote Hi everyone, Just FYI I've been out all evening and I'm not in the office tomorrow, so there may be a couple of days' delay before I get back to this thread. Panic ye not in the meantime, I'll get to it :) -Greyscale

Crys Talize Imperial Forge Inc. 2	Posted - 2012.11.01 23:49:00 - [210] - Quote A really nice change to make hauling an even bigger pita. thumbs up!

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