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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 22 post(s)
Engad Tanon Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition. 15	Posted - 2012.11.02 15:48:00 - [241] - Quote hey , Is there any serious analys or arqumentations why You doing these changes. What good we get? When You changed hangar system before, also with last patch you changed chat mechanics, nothing is came better. Before both chat system and hangars was simple and easy to use. Now players need make many extra clikc's to get same place where before was need only one simple click. Better put your effort to fix some serious gamemehanic problems and these hugh blobs on map. /ET
Toasty Biggums FackToReal 0	Posted - 2012.11.02 15:57:00 - [242] - Quote Engad Tanon wrote: hey , Is there any serious analys or arqumentations why You doing these changes. What good we get? When You changed hangar system before, also with last patch you changed chat mechanics, nothing is came better. Before both chat system and hangars was simple and easy to use. Now players need make many extra clikc's to get same place where before was need only one simple click. Better put your effort to fix some serious gamemehanic problems and these hugh blobs on map. /ET Too complicated for CCP. Bunch of .... can only fix interface, to make our live "easier".
Celgar Thurn Department 10 62	Posted - 2012.11.02 16:37:00 - [243] - Quote Salpun wrote: CCP Greyscale wrote: Ok, so here's our current complete plan: Corp hangars are now fleet hangars Volumes will all stay the same Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3) For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning) Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :) -Greyscale Looks better but some will complain. Any word on pos security improvements or will that have to wait till the new poses? Might want to clearify which corp hangers are effected. All ship equiped corp hangers for example. Hmmm. Shows how messed up some of the programming is within the game if you have to remove divisions from the Orca's corp hanger. They will be sadly missed. Work on corp & alliance roles & permissions along with POS security improvements SHOULD be fixed prior to any work done on 'sexy' stuff like modular POSes. There is no point in having more stuff that looks lovely if it leaks like a sieve! I realise fixing corp roles & permissions is probably a really s***** job to have to do but you will make most of the pilots in EVE happy if you do it. Bar the 0.1% who like to rob corp assets that is.
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 45	Posted - 2012.11.02 17:02:00 - [244] - Quote One question, one suggestion: Question: Does the "drop chance" extend to the Orca's ship hangar and ore hold? Suggestion: Now that the self-destructing properties of the corporate hangar are being lost, perhaps it might be extended to Secure Containers. Possible method: when repackaged, a password-locked Secure Container will trash its contents, rather than empty them into the personal hangar of the person repackaging the Secure Container; a Secure Container with no password lock would behave as it does currently.
Commander A9 East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate 30	Posted - 2012.11.02 17:22:00 - [245] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: Ok, so here's our current complete plan: Corp hangars on ships are now fleet hangars Volumes will all stay the same Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3) For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning) Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :) -Greyscale So, if I'm understanding this right, the Orca is losing its division tabs off its corp hangar... I'm not too happy about this. The division tabs help me keep my Orca organized, and this organization helps during fleet ops and transportation. Several of my alliance pilots share my sentiments. I'm not seeing any benefit to removing division tabs from the Orca corps hangar. Recommended Changes: -enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters) -add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot) -less focus on graphics, more on mechanics -stop "fixing" what isn't "broken"
Tess La'Coil Lightbringer's Sanctuary RAZOR Alliance 29	Posted - 2012.11.02 17:52:00 - [246] - Quote Commander A9 wrote: So, if I'm understanding this right, the Orca is losing its division tabs off its corp hangar... I'm not too happy about this. The division tabs help me keep my Orca organized, and this organization helps during fleet ops and transportation. Several of my alliance pilots share my sentiments. I'm not seeing any benefit to removing division tabs from the Orca corps hangar. No, its not loosing the "split ones" as far as I can tell they're just going to be rename/treated as fleet hangers instead of corp hangers. Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother.-á
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 494	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:01:00 - [247] - Quote Tess La'Coil wrote: Commander A9 wrote: So, if I'm understanding this right, the Orca is losing its division tabs off its corp hangar... I'm not too happy about this. The division tabs help me keep my Orca organized, and this organization helps during fleet ops and transportation. Several of my alliance pilots share my sentiments. I'm not seeing any benefit to removing division tabs from the Orca corps hangar. No, its not loosing the "split ones" as far as I can tell they're just going to be rename/treated as fleet hangers instead of corp hangers. No, there will be no more divisions. The new coders are unable to read the old code, so it has to go. They're also unable to recode it in code they can read, in order to copy the functionality that is already provided, so we'll get containers instead.
Kari Juptris Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 55	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:20:00 - [248] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: No, there will be no more divisions. The new coders are unable to read the old code, so it has to go. They're also unable to recode it in code they can read, in order to copy the functionality that is already provided, so we'll get containers instead. To be fair, I can sympathize with what CCP is going through codewise. A lot of the codebase I work in at work is from the 70s and it has evolved into a twisted mess after 40 years worth of revisions. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and gut everything so you can build it back up in a way that is straightforward instead containing a decade's worth design decisions twisting the code in different ways. I don't agree with them dropping functionality however, but I'm more or less okay with the container based replacement for corp hangers in ships.
musejay1 OMER Science Technology Hegemonous Pandorum 0	Posted - 2012.11.02 18:43:00 - [249] - Quote I have one major problem that I think needs addressing. The Orca has a 40k M^3 in the corp hanger, the Rorqual has a 30k m^3 . Now forgive me if you do not agree, however if you look at the construction requirements (looking at a virgin BPO) the Orca requires 4 "Capital Corporate Hanger Bays" and the Rorqual requires 17... so one would assume that you would have more space in the Rorqual than the Orca, no? I personally find it a problem, especially now that the Mackinaw has a 35k ore hold, so when putting into the rorqual you have to put it in 2 times instead of one... Does anyone else find this a problem? - Jay
Kari Juptris Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 55	Posted - 2012.11.02 19:14:00 - [250] - Quote musejay1 wrote: :words: All CCP would do is increase the number of other required components to account for the drop off in hanger bays. This is a non-issue compared to most other problems.
Infinite Force Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 162	Posted - 2012.11.02 19:19:00 - [251] - Quote musejay1 wrote: I have one major problem that I think needs addressing. The Orca has a 40k M^3 in the corp hanger, the Rorqual has a 30k m^3 . Now forgive me if you do not agree, however if you look at the construction requirements (looking at a virgin BPO) the Orca requires 4 "Capital Corporate Hanger Bays" and the Rorqual requires 17... so one would assume that you would have more space in the Rorqual than the Orca, no? I personally find it a problem, especially now that the Mackinaw has a 35k ore hold, so when putting into the rorqual you have to put it in 2 times instead of one... Does anyone else find this a problem? - Jay Yes, this is a problem for those that actually heavily use the ships -- for the theory-crafters out there, I'm sure they'll come up with some lame excuse for a different mining fleet composition (e.g. 3 miners / hauler) or some process that is otherwise just crazy to actually try and implement rather than give a practical and implementable answer. Given the recent barge changes I would love to see the Ore holds on the Orca & Rorqual doubled (or more) and the Cargo/Corp Holds increased as well. Both the Orca and the Rorqual need some updates (ore space in particular). HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud Hammer Mineral Compression - The only way to go!
BlitZ Kotare Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore 18	Posted - 2012.11.02 19:24:00 - [252] - Quote Kari Juptris wrote: [quote=Rengerel en Distel] I don't agree with them dropping functionality however, but I'm more or less okay with the container based replacement for corp hangers in ships. Put a container or two in your corp hangar for a bit and you won't be. They're amazingly annoying to deal with, doubly so under the new inventory system. I have to agree with several others in this thread, all I see about these changes is that I'm getting hit with a stick. Where's the carrot? I'll have to sell my Orca, or just let it languish in a hangar somewhere as it'll now be completely useless, and there's a month or two's worth of specialized training I'll never get back. My carriers and supers hangars are getting nerfed, and now also drop all my goodies that before were simply destroyed (which I liked). There's also a serious transportation problem you're introducing, Orcas were the only semi-secure way to move high value cargo previously. Crimewatch itself is not a deterrent to gankers, trust me on this I know what I'm talking about. It's trivial to spend a few hours ratting up sec status for another round of ganking in 0.0 and the payoff can be huge. Now since I'm a smart guy I can probably figure a way around cargo scanners anyway, maybe an Orca full of shuttles with cargoholds full of copied bookmarks? It'd probably crash the node to be cargo scanned, but at least I wouldn't die in a fire. Anyway, the only changes presented here that I actually like are that refit stays on and there won't be a limit to how many people can refit at once, which while slightly annoying was something I've had to work around for years so I (and every other cap pilot everywhere) am used to dealing with it. Where's my carrot? Stop clubbing me over the head already!
Belshazzar Babylon Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2012.11.02 20:39:00 - [253] - Quote Can Industrialist get some kind of anti-scan module? I mean some kind of counter would be nice. Or is the answer going to be the same old fit a tank fluff?
Alli Othman Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 43	Posted - 2012.11.02 20:58:00 - [254] - Quote Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Can Industrialist get some kind of anti-scan module? I mean some kind of counter would be nice. Or is the answer going to be the same old fit a tank fluff? Seeing as how in this case you actually can fit a significant tank... Maybe you should stop crying and calling it fluff and start protecting your assets?
Belshazzar Babylon Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:02:00 - [255] - Quote Alli Othman wrote: Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Can Industrialist get some kind of anti-scan module? I mean some kind of counter would be nice. Or is the answer going to be the same old fit a tank fluff? Seeing as how in this case you actually can fit a significant tank... Maybe you should stop crying and calling it fluff and start protecting your assets? What's the problem? Do you really just want Industrial ganking to be mini-pos bashing?
Alli Othman Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 43	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:08:00 - [256] - Quote Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Alli Othman wrote: Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Can Industrialist get some kind of anti-scan module? I mean some kind of counter would be nice. Or is the answer going to be the same old fit a tank fluff? Seeing as how in this case you actually can fit a significant tank... Maybe you should stop crying and calling it fluff and start protecting your assets? What's the problem? Do you really just want Industrial ganking to be mini-pos bashing? No, I would like to see you whinebags stop derailing a thread on much more important changes with your incessant crying about ganking and perpetual refusal to actually tank a ship that has a massive tank- one that actually IS a way for you to dissuade gankers. CCP have to bring the toilet paper and join you in the restroom to get you pathetic mouthbreathers to take advantage of the ways you can protect yourself in this game.
Belshazzar Babylon Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:15:00 - [257] - Quote Alli Othman wrote: Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Alli Othman wrote: Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Can Industrialist get some kind of anti-scan module? I mean some kind of counter would be nice. Or is the answer going to be the same old fit a tank fluff? Seeing as how in this case you actually can fit a significant tank... Maybe you should stop crying and calling it fluff and start protecting your assets? What's the problem? Do you really just want Industrial ganking to be mini-pos bashing? No, I would like to see you whinebags stop derailing a thread on much more important changes with your incessant crying about ganking and perpetual refusal to actually tank a ship that has a massive tank- one that actually IS a way for you to dissuade gankers. CCP have to bring the toilet paper and join you in the restroom to get you pathetic mouthbreathers to take advantage of the ways you can protect yourself in this game. I do not believe that this is anyway derailing the thread. This has very important implications for a large amount of players and should be discussed. You are the one going off topic with your name calling. Yes the Orca and other Industrialist can fit a tank. I'm not asking for any kind of HP buff. Just some kind of way to counter scanning. Some new ways to play, since CCP is changing things.
Tess La'Coil Lightbringer's Sanctuary RAZOR Alliance 29	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:44:00 - [258] - Quote -removed- Explained below. Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother.-á
Alli Othman Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 43	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:45:00 - [259] - Quote Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Alli Othman wrote: Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Alli Othman wrote: Belshazzar Babylon wrote: Can Industrialist get some kind of anti-scan module? I mean some kind of counter would be nice. Or is the answer going to be the same old fit a tank fluff? Seeing as how in this case you actually can fit a significant tank... Maybe you should stop crying and calling it fluff and start protecting your assets? What's the problem? Do you really just want Industrial ganking to be mini-pos bashing? No, I would like to see you whinebags stop derailing a thread on much more important changes with your incessant crying about ganking and perpetual refusal to actually tank a ship that has a massive tank- one that actually IS a way for you to dissuade gankers. CCP have to bring the toilet paper and join you in the restroom to get you pathetic mouthbreathers to take advantage of the ways you can protect yourself in this game. I do not believe that this is anyway derailing the thread. This has very important implications for a large amount of players and should be discussed. You are the one going off topic with your name calling. Yes the Orca and other Industrialist can fit a tank. I'm not asking for any kind of HP buff. Just some kind of way to counter scanning. Some new ways to play, since CCP is changing things. Is it perhaps a bit difficult to read the monitor with your helmet on? Or do you think that others also are lacking in reading comprehension to the degree that you are? If they wanted a counter to cargo scanning they'd have kept that a feature of the hangars. They don't and so it's not. If you paid any attention to some of their future plans with regard to the enforcement of drug smuggling (they want to shift it to player enforced) then you would understand how completely out of touch with that direction what you propose is. And further the topic is changes to hangars, not New Modules to Allow Risk-Avoidant Play. You betrayed that this was a whine about ganking when you made your "same old fit a tank fluff" comment. So yes, you are derailing- the issue is not "Ganking is OP and we want you to be at no risk in our dangerous universe sandbox" but "here's the changes to the hangars that make them more intuitive and further in line with how other cargo bays work." On this topic they've received quality feedback from others and have even shown responsiveness to the concerns of users- something commendable, and yet here you are whining about an entirely different topic. You are not intended to be immune to cargo scans- and changes are being made to reflect that intent and bring the fleet hangars in line with that. If you would like to avoid the vast majority of opportunistic gank attemps you can actually do so by the method you handwave away. If you feel that ganking needs to be addressed, there are other places for that (read: not this one) where your gnashing of teeth would be indeed be appropriate.
Tess La'Coil Lightbringer's Sanctuary RAZOR Alliance 29	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:50:00 - [260] - Quote Really, with the addition of the 5 new containers sizing 1000m3 to 250km3 there is no point in having corp hangers/fleet hangers other than the fact that they are now Fleet accessible in a more intuitive fashion. Being unscannable was nice, but apparently deemed an unintended mechanic. Adapt or die. Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother.-á
Alli Othman Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 43	Posted - 2012.11.02 21:54:00 - [261] - Quote Tess La'Coil wrote: Really, with the addition of the 5 new containers sizing 1000m3 to 250km3 there is no point in having corp hangers/fleet hangers other than the fact that they are now Fleet accessible in a more intuitive fashion. Being unscannable was nice, but apparently deemed an unintended mechanic. Adapt or die. Being unscannable was most likely because of the convoluted mess the code involving corp hangars was. Since they're finally getting to scrap some of that, there's no need for such holdovers of bad code to continue.
Arronicus Serenity Prime Kraken. 1	Posted - 2012.11.02 22:47:00 - [262] - Quote Simpler =/= Better. Different divisions within hangars in carriers, supers, etc, was extremely useful, and in some cases, practically necessary. As a carrier pilot, I would rather have the old hangar system that I could at least somewhat organize, than the new system, which forces everything to be thrown all into one pile. Terrible change.
Vindictate Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2012.11.02 23:00:00 - [263] - Quote Organization is key for the Orca. CCP dont take away my organization, its like having a 60" tv break only to be told that its replacement 13" also does the job, sure it does just not as well. If you dont have the resources to do it right take your time till next winter.
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 26	Posted - 2012.11.02 23:51:00 - [264] - Quote Kari Juptris wrote: I don't agree with them dropping functionality however, but I'm more or less okay with the container based replacement for corp hangers in ships. Well, I'm not. Containers are just annoying. The new UI makes this a little easier, yes. But they'll never be able to replace the current divisions. Not unless they adapt in size. I'm fine with the other changes though .
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 199	Posted - 2012.11.03 00:25:00 - [265] - Quote Containers are annoying CCP. Even more annoying after the Inferno Inventory UI to the point its too much of a hassle to make them worth using. There is nothing wrong with the corp hangar system. It should be secure not simply having any fellow in the fleet being able to take things at will.
mrpapageorgio Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance 85	Posted - 2012.11.03 00:46:00 - [266] - Quote CCP Greyscale wrote: Ok, so here's our current complete plan: Corp hangars on ships are now fleet hangars Volumes will all stay the same Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3) For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning) Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :) -Greyscale Some of these changes are quite good and have been a long time coming, such as removing the restrictions on ship fitting. However, Containers, no matter what new sizes are available, are not an acceptable replacement for divisions. Divisions are useful for organization and access control. What makes them so superior is that they are not a fixed size. I can stick as much or as little as I want in division 1 and not worry about there being wasted space or anyone being able to take a handful of officer mods. Flying a supercapital this is especially important. At the very minimum there should be a public and private division of the hangar that do not have a fixed individual size. Fleet hangar and SMA access controls should be totally separate. Just because I want to hand someone a rifter doesn't mean they should have access to modules in my now division less fleet hangar, or vice-versa. If the changes go through in their current form, I will simply never allow anyone access to my fleet hangar and you will have effectively removed that functionality.
Jaison Savrin Remnants of the Forgotten Seekers of the Unseen 79	Posted - 2012.11.03 00:52:00 - [267] - Quote Quote: Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) This just means I am going to have to start paying people to move my stuff despite the fact I own multiple freighters. This is literally the only thing the Orca had going for it (as a hauler) over freighters for my uses. Good job on making ganking easier. Seriously. It needed it or something.
Cobalt Rookits Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.11.03 03:26:00 - [268] - Quote While there are some good changes here (Ship fitting array/permissions) you have seriously nerfed the hell out of CHAs. While I get you need to update code, you will have removed most of their functionality and ease of use. Static containers do not replace the divisions.
WhaleCommander Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 1	Posted - 2012.11.03 05:30:00 - [269] - Quote Containers offer nowhere near the accessibility or convenience of a division hangar, not to mention containers have limitations on how much you can put in it, while divisions are limited by the maximum size of the corp hangar bay. Opening containers loading them up is a pain to do. Opening divisions is secure, simpler, and faster. Fleet hangars will have the issue of people taking crap they weren't supposed to take and creating a bunch of issues.
Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District 53	Posted - 2012.11.03 06:17:00 - [270] - Quote Quote: Storing the "lock items" setting for audit log containers on the server The "lock items" setting on audit log containers is no longer a personal setting, but it is stored on the server and applying to all users. The new default setting is "unlocked". In corporation hangars the role "Config Equipment" is needed to change the setting (assuming no password is set). How does one buy you beer? or cookies if you don't drink. "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."

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