Some of these changes are quite good and have been a long time coming, such as removing the restrictions on ship fitting.

However, Containers, no matter what new sizes are available, are not an acceptable replacement for divisions. Divisions are useful for organization and access control. What makes them so superior is that they are not a fixed size. I can stick as much or as little as I want in division 1 and not worry about there being wasted space or anyone being able to take a handful of officer mods. Flying a supercapital this is especially important. At the very minimum there should be a public and private division of the hangar that do not have a fixed individual size.

Fleet hangar and SMA access controls should be totally separate. Just because I want to hand someone a rifter doesn't mean they should have access to modules in my now division less fleet hangar, or vice-versa.

If the changes go through in their current form, I will simply never allow anyone access to my fleet hangar and you will have effectively removed that functionality.

No, I would like to see you whinebags stop derailing a thread on much more important changes with your incessant crying about ganking and perpetual refusal to actually tank a ship that has a massive tank- one that actually IS a way for you to dissuade gankers. CCP have to bring the toilet paper and join you in the restroom to get you pathetic mouthbreathers to take advantage of the ways you can protect yourself in this game.

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Fleet hangar and SMA access controls should be totally separate. Just because I want to hand someone a rifter doesn't mean they should have access to modules in my now division less fleet hangar, or vice-versa.
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Ok, so here's our current complete plan:

• Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars
• Volumes will all stay the same
• Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles
• Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet
• Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously
• Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI
• We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3)
• For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)
• Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them)

We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :)

-Greyscale

And the containers of variable size? Or will the CHA size be effectively nerfed by "dead space" in oversized containers?

Make in-space refitting out of containers in cargo / CHA behave consistently if you're going to introduce container dependent mechanics. It's a mess that makes no sense right now.

Currently you can refit in space to fitting screen from container in cargo, CHA, cargo, but iirc not container in CHA.

You can refit from anywhere (including container in CHA) while docked to fitting screen.

Incongruously you fan refit in space to empty module slots on module bar from only cargo, not CHA or containers. The mouse icon changes like it wants to do something when dragging from container, but when you drop onto the empty module slot nothing happens. You can even more confusingly unfit from the module bars to a container.

Note: some of this may be inaccurate, I didn't re-test the mechanics to construct this post and can't recall all the specific convolutions. Suffice to say, it's a ******* mess.

However, Containers, no matter what new sizes are available, are not an acceptable replacement for divisions. Divisions are useful for organization and access control. What makes them so superior is that they are not a fixed size. I can stick as much or as little as I want in division 1 and not worry about there being wasted space or anyone being able to take a handful of officer mods. Flying a supercapital this is especially important.

I just tested this in our current development version and refitting directly from a container in your own fleet hangar works fine, including dragging and dropping multiple items onto the fitting screen. We were not doing any changes to Corporate Hangar Arrays (CHA) at a POS, so any problems there will still be around.
Please feel free to test containers in fleet hangars in detail on Duality or Buckingham as soon as one of them are updated with these changes - it is easily possible that I missed some cases (but I will also test more in the following days).

Why are you ignoring the player base on this?

So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Why are you ignoring the player base on this?

It's not divisions that are evil, it's the fact that all the different hangars on ships *are* divisions in tech-terms. The absolute horror that was corp hangars on ships was evil and that had to go. The goal was not to remove divisions, but without some seriously major work, we can't create divisions within divisions which is why they're unlikely to come back. Sorry.


Aren't you basically asking for a larger cargo hold here? And you don't need any passwords on them containers. No one but the pilot will be able to open/take them/from them as long as they're in the FH.

It's not divisions that are evil, it's the fact that all the different hangars on ships *are* divisions in tech-terms. The absolute horror that was corp hangars on ships was evil and that had to go. The goal was not to remove divisions, but without some seriously major work, we can't create divisions within divisions which is why they're unlikely to come back. Sorry.


Aren't you basically asking for a larger cargo hold here? And you don't need any passwords on them containers. No one but the pilot will be able to open/take them/from them as long as they're in the FH.

OK, take a Carrier as an example. It has a 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar Array and a 1,000,000 Ship Maintenance Array.

The 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar currently has 7 divisions which expand/contract depending on what is in them. The total size of them all can't be bigger than 10,000 m3 but you don't need any containers to achieve whatever level of organization you want. You can't grant access to these corp hangar segments to non-corp members, but the corp roles DO apply to corp members so you can effectively filter who can get to the goodies in your ship by putting more expensive ones in (for example) the 'Director Only' hangar.

What you propose to replace this great, fully functional system with is one hangar with no divisions. You are going to give me cans to put in there so I can organize my stuff and don't understand why I'm upset with this change. The issue we, the players, have is 3-fold. First of all, you're giving me a new item I don't want to have to carry around. It'll never be full and always takes up more space than I want it to, I also have to get them out to 0.0 space where I live, or someone has to make them there, both of which are seriously inconvenient. Second, I can't allow access by anyone else to the cans in my hangar, the entire thing is either ON / OFF to my entire fleet, providing zero security. Third, how am I supposed to carry these cans around with me when deploying? I can refit my carrier for multiple roles in minutes, but if half my inventory is full of cans used to duplicate the functionality I already had, how do I fit my 2 extra Capital sized modules in there at 4k m3 each?

You're essentially taking the Corp Hangar I have now, which I like, and replacing it with the ON / OFF functionality of the current Ship Maintenance Array, which NO ONE ANYWHERE is happy with. IE: it's either ON or OFF any anyone in the fleet can steal all your stuff.

I realize it's more WORK for you to keep the current functionality that we have now, but if you don't want to put in that work (which, not to be a **** about it, is kind of your entire job), why mess with it at all? Why change something that isn't broken and players are not complaining about?

GÇóFor containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)

From my impression of that, your first two points are taken care of because people can only put stuff into your hanger. They cannot remove it. Your third point may be just just adapting.

No, you just didn't understand my post.

The cans are 'secure' in that no one but me (the pilot) can get into them. But if I put anything out in the Fleet Hangar (not in a can) anyone in the fleet can have it. The hangar itself is either ON or OFF with no granularity, so all of my stuff is either safe in a can, safe when the Fleet Hangar is turned OFF or free for everyone to grab.

You're also completely ignoring the annoyance the containers themselves, which are miserable excuses for hangar divisions. The auto-adjusting size of hangar divisions is amazing and is one of the best points of owning a carrier/orca/rorqual/SC/Titan. Hell half the reason I still want a Titan, even though they've been nerfed into the ground, is the giant corp hangar to store all my goodies in.

(slight bit of ignorance but if you have a carrier now, but do not have permissions to the director's division, can stuff be put into your carrier that you cannot access?)

What a surprise! Someone who doesn't have a capital is perfectly fine with this change and is telling us it's fine.

As for your question, no. Corp hangars in ships allow the pilot of the vessel full access to each hangar, and allow people with appropriate roles access to whatever hangar they would normally be able to access in a station when the ship is in reconfig mode. Pilots have a "master key" to all hangars in their own ships.

So you're mad that you're losing your partitioned magic bag of holding that required someone to navigate the nearly universally despised corp role system and was quite buggy on top of it instead of using fairly easy to understand containers?

Are containers that may have a little bit of spare space less painful than having to navigate the corp role system to get all cap ship pilots able to use some divisions but not others?

(slight bit of ignorance but if you have a carrier now, but do not have permissions to the director's division, can stuff be put into your carrier that you cannot access?)

Ever heard the term "if it's not broken don't fix it"?
Have you seen how much crap a carrier carts around?
Do you even use a carrier, or is it another one of these unified inventory fixes where the old one worked fine but we just had to have a change?

In regards to the space issue (you call it "partitioned magic bag of holding"). Under the current system, I do not have enough space in my carrier's cargohold for any spare capital mods @ 4k each for refits. Instead, I can put them in the Corp Hangars - and what's left over for space goes to everyone else that is allowed access to the Corp Hangar.

Under the new system, I will need to partition my "fleet hangar" with fixed sized containers - effectively eliminating one of two things:
a) I no longer have enough space to carry extra cap mods for refits
b) I no longer have secured (container) space to carry general Fleet equipment because my container for my capital refitting mods is 10k in size.

The current system might be 'broken' due to bad programming, but it works -- and doesn't require the paying player base to go though additional suffering just to do simple things.