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MiningLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 10:27:00 -
[1]
Its a real pain when a noob can steal ore from your container, when he is in high spec space he just cant be touched, or the nice ol police man gets to smack your rear with a big nasty gun.
When you spend hours mining it realy makes people mad to find some snotty nosed arsewipe roll up and take the lot in one go, and there is nothing you can do about it :-(
As for the password protected containers, there to small to be of any use in mining.
Could ccp make it a crime for non corp members to take from your container while your in the same roid belt and let you fire on them.
If you leave you container ungarded then tuff *****, but come on ccp, let us strike back when we are robbed.
PS if you see a guy called Ramen noodle look out, he wiil steal your ore right in front of you.
Edited by: MiningLlama on 05/07/2003 10:34:13
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 10:38:00 -
[2]
ehehehe!
Scrapyard Jack is proud to be protecting the environment by picking up after such careless, thoughtless miners whose unfettered cargo containers are besmirching the beautiful landscape!
You drop it, and Scrapyard Jack will cheerfully pick it up. If you don't want Scrapyard Jack to do that, then don't drop things.
Theft may be a crime, but so is littering.
ehehehe!
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 10:59:00 -
[3]
Its not about droping things and leaving them, but hard work being stolen by people who like you can just lol away happy to know they are untouchable.
You cant be bothered to mine for your self, so you just take.
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Phyo
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:04:00 -
[4]
High sec or low sec.. who steals from me, gets shot at.
I can outrun the cops.
I got no respect for thiefs, the moment you steal from me, I consider that an act of war and will respond accordingly.
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:13:00 -
[5]
The problem with that, is the sec changes introduced by CCP
If your sec rateing drops to far, your going to have to live out in low sec space, due to the police now taking a hard line on low sec people in high sec space.
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Phyo
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:34:00 -
[6]
Attention, this container belongs to another corporation. Taking any content is an act of thievery and will lower your security rating.
Do you want to proceed ?
Yes ........ Cancel
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Captain Stern
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:38:00 -
[7]
What is the problem here that I keep seeing over and over???
I don't understand why people are dropping stuff in space long enough to be stolen without an indy around to collect it with them anyway.
This doesn't have to be as big a problem as people keep making it out to be.
-----------------------------------------------
Remember, where ever you go, there you are! |
Tallon
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:38:00 -
[8]
I am offering a 500,000 ISK bounty for the pilot that brings me the frozen corps of Ramen Noodle. He is opperating out of Altinur.
Please see this post for updates.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=17039
Thanks,
Tallon
P.S. It is the only retribution possible at this point.
Edited by: Tallon on 05/07/2003 11:40:54
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Phyo
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:43:00 -
[9]
Some players wish to mine for hours and call in a mate with an indy later on.
Or pick it up themselves with their own industrial.
Isn't that hard to come to this conclusion yourselves.. is it ?
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:45:00 -
[10]
"but hard work being stolen"
ehehehe!
Yes, and Scrapyard Jack recognises that sitting next to a rock automining and (potentially) using a macro program to jettison containers is "hard work"....
uh, wait.. maybe not.
Pick one:
1. Mine a full cargo load, go to the station and deposit.
2. Mine a full cargo load, wait until your corporations industrial comes, then jettison it.
But sit there semi-afk and repeatedly toss containers into the ether, and Scrapyard Jack (or someone else) is gonna come take it.
Scrapyard Jack,
Scrapyard Jack,
Will take yer ore,
Won't give it back!
ehehehe!
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Tallon
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:48:00 -
[11]
The problem is that I was mining and he just drove his indy up to me and took my ore. What do you do in a 0.8 system to stop it??? I cant shoot him I didnt have enough yet for me to go get my indy or call on a corp member for pickup. He flew up to me and took 22k Plag from my container. Then did it a second time after I just mined it back up. I cant shoot him, I tried to talk to him. Nothing!!! Sit and watch your ore loaded in to anothers ship with no way of stoping it. Felt kind of helpless. So I am offering a reward... It is the only thing I can think of doing for revenge.
Thanks,
Tallon
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:49:00 -
[12]
"What do you do in a 0.8 system to stop it???"
Don't jettison your ore and leave it sitting in space.
Pretty simple, if y'ask ol' Jack.
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Phyo
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:50:00 -
[13]
eheheheehee and Phyo will be there in his Thorax with double mwd to blow your ass to pieces ehehhehe
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:51:00 -
[14]
quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the problem here that I keep seeing over and over???
I don't understand why people are dropping stuff in space long enough to be stolen without an indy around to collect it with them anyway.
This doesn't have to be as big a problem as people keep making it out to be.
------------------------------------------------
The problem is, that even if you have an indy in the same roid belt, the robber can just sit by your container and pick up your ore when he likes.
So you drop it in, he takes it out, you drop it in the indy tryes to get it first and has to sit there.
So you need one indy per miner.
You can't do squat to the guy stealing, and he can just wander round at will, waiting for the next load to refine.
Rather sad eh!!
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Captain Stern
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:56:00 -
[15]
I guess. Okay, just curious since I've never done that kind of drop mining myself yet.
Good answers :)
-----------------------------------------------
Remember, where ever you go, there you are! |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 11:59:00 -
[16]
"eheheheehee and Phyo will be there in his Thorax with double mwd to blow your ass to pieces ehehhehe"
ehehehehehehehe!
Double MWD! ehehehehe! What's that leave ya, boyo .. 250 shields? 600 cap?
Let's look at the scenario, shall we?
You shoot Scrapyard Jack.
Scrapyard Jack shoots you.
Concord turns up.
Concord shoots you.
You die.
Scrapyard Jack says "ehehehehe" a lot.
Scrapyard Jack flies a Thorax too, ehehehe!
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Phyo
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:01:00 -
[17]
Now who's not thinking.. you are stealing our cargo with a bestower, so youre in an indy, not a thorax.
And the double mwd makes it possible to stay out of range of the cops and dock to a station.
Result.. you are dead, I'm alive with a lower sec rating.
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Shill DeGruin
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:03:00 -
[18]
Ummm no Scrapyard Jack. Most ppl who afk mine do so from an Indy, so they aren't dropping containers at all.
Picture this scenario : you're in a corp and mining Scordite in a 1.0 sec system. You've been asked by your CEO to obtain 100k scordite and an Indy will come and pick it up soon. The Indy driver gets held up with another task and can't make it for another 30 mins. In this situation a lot of miners would just stack all the ore in one container awaiting pickup.
Then along comes Scrapyard Jack .... and picks it all up. What can you do ? You certainly weren't afk .... you were actively mining. If you fire off a warning shot the police come after you .. not the thief. If you kill the thief you are in an even worse state with your security status ( which is now difficult to restore ). The victim is therefore completely unprotected.
I'm all for keeping thieving in-game. But thieving should be noted as a crime ....and have tangible consequences. The victim should be allowed to pursue action without retribution against him/her from the authorities.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:09:00 -
[19]
"In this situation a lot of miners would just stack all the ore in one container awaiting pickup."
When what they should do, (ehehehe!), is take the ore to the station until the industrial is available.
Lazy miners are the thieves best friend!
ehehehe!
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Main
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:18:00 -
[20]
scrapyard jack, you are half way to being awarded the darwin award, now all you have to do is die.
Main
Everlasting Vendetta Veteran
Member of the Stain Alliance |
Rogue Noir
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:23:00 -
[21]
Im sorry but Il have to agree with the very entertaining jacko here, its a known problem so if you are so worried then dont drop ore all over the place unless you are sure there is no one else around.
-----------------------------------------------
Shady trader, fence and gentleman extrordionaire.
Noir Enterprises Site |
Sanru
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:25:00 -
[22]
Jack, do you really have nothing better to do that make inflammatory replies that serve no purpose ? Get a life.
Anyways, can't really say I endorse thievery. It sucks spending time doing something then some yahoo exploiting a loophole waltzes in and steals it from you. But it's supposed to be a risk we take, but I think it's fair that the thief takes on some risk as well. The current situation is rewarding them while they undertake no risks whatsoever. Stealing is a crime, it should be recognized as such.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:33:00 -
[23]
"then some yahoo exploiting a loophole waltzes in and steals it from you"
Scrapyard Jack really doesn't have anything better to do right now, but thank you for asking.
Scrapyard Jack will reiterate:
If you jettison it, it's no longer "yours", therefore it can not be stolen.
If you're too lazy to mine properly and have to look for, ahem, loopholes to exploit to make your mining easier, then perhaps you, m'friend, are a yahoo, ehehehe!
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:52:00 -
[24]
This is the best example for *censored* carebears wanting the game as easy as it could be.
Next request will be removal of all weapons and setting all security ratings of solar systems to 1.0 (even outside empire space) and a free battleship with 8 CU Vapors for everyone.
Go and play some hearts, you can't get hurt there.
Edited by: Molly on 05/07/2003 12:54:55
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Tobruk
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:53:00 -
[25]
Is my corp the only one that noticed you can only jet a can once every five minutes now? That means you MUST fill a can for at least five minutes, before an indy can even grab it. If they grab it prior to then, you will have to stop mining until your five minutes have passed. So even if the indy is SITTING ON TOP OF YOU, your can still has to float in space for 5 minutes. CCP should definately implement some sort of can protection now.
----------------------------------------------
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.07.05 12:59:00 -
[26]
Well this is not thievery. Thievery would be when that guy comes up to your ship and steals the ore right out of your cargohold.
When I take those cigarettes I carry with me and throw them on the street and somebody picks them up to smoke them that doesn¦t make him a thief. It makes me an idiot for throwing them on the street and expecting that nobody will take em. It¦s that simple.
If you don¦t want your ore to be picked up by strangers then do what has to be done to prevent it. Whether that be shooting those guys and dealing with the cops or simply NOT jettisoning the ore is up to you. And whether that is unfair or makes mining annoying in highsec space doesn¦t play a role... life is NOT fair, EvE is NOT fair.
And by the way:
When you¦re at the point to mine with 5 ships with an indy picking up the ore then you should consider moving farther out.
Mai's Idealog |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:08:00 -
[27]
Tobruk ask the indy guy to leave 1 ore.
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Vacuole
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:11:00 -
[28]
I've actually seen lazy miners do this:
They mine a load, then jettison it..then mine and mine for a good while and keep putting stuff in that container.
Then sometime later, they stop mining, and start ferrying the ore, bit by bit, from that container to a station somewhere, leaving the container just sitting there out in space all alone.
It seems like lazy mining, but most of all, it's stupid because the only time being saved it vanishingly small; the time it takes to approach the asteroid and turn-on the beams. And you can save that by using a bookmark in most cases.
So if this is the kind of mining you do, then you sorta diserve to lose "your" ore.
Maybe your plan is to return in an Indy.. well still, you left the container alone out in some belt.....
If the NPC's were in the habit of shooting containers, we wouldn't be seeing this thread. :)
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Takumi Vetinari
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:13:00 -
[29]
"And by the way:
When you¦re at the point to mine with 5 ships with an indy picking up the ore then you should consider moving farther out."
Unless it's no-fuss common minerals you're after.
--
Takumi Vetinari, Founder
PIE Inc
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halgar
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:22:00 -
[30]
folks we can sell you some wonderfull theif protection devices-"mines"
post here if you want some?
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:25:00 -
[31]
Quote
This is the best example for *censored* carebears wanting the game as easy as it could be.
----------------------------------------------
What the hell has carebear stuff got to do with this ??
IT IS carebare, to want to steal with out risk.
How is it carebare to want to kill people, thats what I want to do, KILL ROBBERS.
Quote:
Well this is not thievery. Thievery would be when that guy comes up to your ship and steals the ore right out of your cargohold.
When I take those cigarettes I carry with me and throw them on the street and somebody picks them up to smoke them that doesn¦t make him a thief. It makes me an idiot for throwing them
-----------------------------------------------
So your saying if you put some stuff in YOUR carrier bag and someone else takes it out, thats ok.
How is putting ore into a cargo container for collection considered to be throwing it away ?
By your thinking, if you post a letter into the post box then its ok for other people to take it out with out you telling them its ok to do so.
Quote:
"In this situation a lot of miners would just stack all the ore in one container awaiting pickup."
When what they should do, (ehehehe!), is take the ore to the station until the industrial is available.
Lazy miners are the thieves best friend!
ehehehe!
-----------------------------------------------
A rather silly statement on your part.
It shows you never have mined much.
If you could take all the ore back to the station then why would you need it picked up in the first place :-/
As for not needing an industrial, well it takes so long to get the amount of ore needed to keep up production of a large corp that most people would go insane.
Quote:
scrapyard jack, you are half way to being awarded the darwin award, now all you have to do is die
-----------------------------------------------
scrapyard jack has been noticed by our corp already and things are in motion any way, its not something we need to do right now due to more important thing needing our attention, but at some time he will understand why its not good to upset a mega corp.
Eve is vast, but it can seem to grow very small very quickly, if you know what I mean :-)
Edited by: NastyLlama on 05/07/2003 13:38:51
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:36:00 -
[32]
"It shows you never have mined much."
Too much, way too much, ehehehe!
"If you could take all the ore back to the station then why would you need it picked up in the first place :-/"
Mine, go to station. Mine, go to station. What's not to understand? ehehehe!
"As for not needing an industrial, well it takes so long to get the amount of ore needed to keep up production of a large corp that most people would go insane."
Mine in an Industrial ship. Lots of cargo space, but slow.
Mine fast, make more station trips.
Mine slow, make less station trips.
Scrapyard Jack thinks the problem here is that you want to have 4 miner 1s and 5000 cargo at the same time!
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyzzzzzzzeeeeeee!
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Nerhtal Al'Thali
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:38:00 -
[33]
try declaring war with their corp, can you shoot in high sec space then without police attention and security rating loss (except pod killing still causes sec loss?!)
"Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play"
Oveur
"First in, last out"
Bridgeburner Motto |
Rhonstet
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:40:00 -
[34]
First, a definition from dictionary.com.
jetÀtiÀson ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jt-sn, -zn)
tr.v. jetÀtiÀsoned, jetÀtiÀsonÀing, jetÀtiÀsons
To cast overboard or off: a ship jettisoning wastes; a pilot jettisoning aircraft fuel.
Informal. To discard (something) as unwanted or burdensome: jettisoned the whole marketing plan.
I think the idea behind jettisoning cargo is to expel it. That's why the command is called 'Jettison'.
The idea of canister-mining is to start stacking mined material in space (which, as we all know, has a great deal of cargo room) rather then in the more cramped cargo hold. But unlike the cozy comfort of the cargo hold, stuff drifting around in space without a pilot at the helm is generally considered public property.
One way to fix this problem would be to introduce and sell lockable containers. These are objects in your inventory that allow you to decide who can open them.
You could also set a flag that marks the container as a 'secured' container. Anyone not in your corp or your gang who takes from that container would take a security rating hit. The secured flag is reset once you leave the system.
I myself think the mining market is crying out for an innovation in the field of canister mining. Perhaps attached deployable cargo objects that allow you to hold unlimited (or at least, very large quantities) of ore, but prevent warp travel and slow local travel.
Edited by: Rhonstet on 05/07/2003 13:42:09
The Monkeysphere |
NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 13:48:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Mine in an Industrial ship. Lots of cargo space, but slow.
------------------------------------------------
OMG!! Yes its slow, thats why we mine the other way.
Its just not right that dregs like you sponge off other peoples hard work with out any risk
Quote:
try declaring war with their corp, can you shoot in high sec space then without police attention and security rating loss (except pod killing still causes sec loss?!)
-----------------------------------------------=
I'M afraid its not that simple, if he is not in a corp or is in an ncp corp :-(
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Setec
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Posted - 2003.07.05 14:04:00 -
[36]
Scrapyard Jack kicks ass!
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Setec
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Posted - 2003.07.05 14:05:00 -
[37]
 Quote:
try declaring war with their corp, can you shoot in high sec space then without police attention and security rating loss (except pod killing still causes sec loss?!)
Podkilling people you're at war with doesn't cause a sec loss at all, even in very high sec space. I did it 3 times yesterday. :)
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.07.05 14:14:00 -
[38]
"So your saying if you put some stuff in YOUR carrier bag and someone else takes it out, thats ok."
I carry MY carrier bag in MY hand. And YES, I¦m saying that when I put those cigs into a carrier bag and leave that bag lying around on the street then it¦s ok for people to take it. Maybe it isn¦t ok for me, but it doesn¦t make them thieves, as I said it makes me stupid for throwing stuff on the street expecting that nobody will take it.
You don¦t take your money to the beach and leave it lying on your towel for everyone to see do you? Yes that money is yours but that doesn¦t stop people from taking it. And if you leave your money there for everyone to see while you go to take a bath then you¦re practically ASKING for them to take it. That¦s life, deal with it. That¦s the reason why people lock up their bikes, that¦s why people lock their cars, that¦s why people keep jewelry safe at home. You get the point?
You don¦t want your stuff to be taken? DON¦T leave it where others have access to it.
Mai's Idealog |
NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 14:27:00 -
[39]
quote:
You don¦t take your money to the beach and leave it lying on your towel for everyone to see do you? Yes that money is yours but that doesn¦t stop people from taking it. And if you leave your money there for everyone to see while you go to take a bath then you¦re practically ASKING for them to take it. That¦s life, deal with it.
------------------------------------------------
But when someone takes your cash and he is seen doing it, you can call the police or hold him untill hte police get there, SO THE PERSON TAKING YOUR CASH TAKES THE RISK OF GETTING DONE BY THE POLICE, OR YOUR OWN QUICKLY DISHED OUT JUSTICE.
What happens in game is thay can take you stuff in full view with NO RISK AT ALL.
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.07.05 14:41:00 -
[40]
The cops might do something, yes, but that still doesn¦t change the fact that you¦re stupid for leaving stuff lying around like this.
Mai's Idealog |
Archa
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Posted - 2003.07.05 14:53:00 -
[41]
I don't like to say it, but Scrapyard Jack has a valid point.
Once you jettison it, it isn't yours anymore.
Ofcourse by a silent agreement we all accepted that other people should not take your ore.
Though the risk of you mining like this is that people like scrapyard will come by and take it from you.
BTW Jack, I hate people like you, however you make very funny forum posts:)
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Gold Brick
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Posted - 2003.07.05 14:57:00 -
[42]
Hey Scrap -- don't be taking my stuff!
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zorlo
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Posted - 2003.07.05 15:14:00 -
[43]
Goldbrick- I hear you are in an Ibis now.
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Gold Brick
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Posted - 2003.07.05 15:17:00 -
[44]
Zorlo, you have made the newb mistake of seeing my trash.
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Damon Vile
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Posted - 2003.07.05 16:32:00 -
[45]
Funny how the only ppl that don't seem to think this is stealing are the ones in NPC corps.
BTW if you set your bags down to open your car door would it be stealing if I ran up and took them? They where just sitting there on the ground, so what if you where standing right next to it. You should have taken then to your car one at a time from the store.
That in a nut shell scrapyard is your argument
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Gold Brick
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Posted - 2003.07.05 16:37:00 -
[46]
That's exactly it. If you leave your wonder bread sitting in the parking lot, it is fair game.
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 16:37:00 -
[47]
quote:
Funny how the only ppl that don't seem to think this is stealing are the ones in NPC corps.
-----------------------------------------------
Good point, maybe thay have the most to lose
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Damon Vile
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Posted - 2003.07.05 16:46:00 -
[48]
Gold brick read the whole example not just the parts you want to twist around. I didn't say anything about leaving it there.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 16:55:00 -
[49]
"BTW if you set your bags down to open your car door would it be stealing if I ran up and took them? They where just sitting there on the ground, so what if you where standing right next to it. You should have taken then to your car one at a time from the store."
Scrapyard Jack would like to present an innovative new technology: The shopping trolley, ehehehe!
Scrapyard Jack won't reiterate the superlative definition of the term "Jettison" that has already been provided in this thread, but would recommend that Damon reads it.
A poignant old Kevin Costner film comes to mind...
"If you fling it; Jack will come"
ehehehe!
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Secrecy
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Posted - 2003.07.05 17:22:00 -
[50]
This is simple issue.
Have larger password protected cans which are very expensive. Put in a hacker skill, then have fun. If someone fails a hack detection roll ONLY the would be thief is flagged as if your corps are at war and you can roll in and kill them without Condord gankage. This would probably quell both sides of the house. The thief would also take a sec hit if a failure occurs.
Now, if the can is not a password type then its fair game and no one can complain. This should give both sides a good option. If you can't afford good cans, then you will have to use indy hold or ferry the cargo back 1 can at a time. If you don't then you lose your cargo to a thief. |
NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.05 17:24:00 -
[51]
quote:
Scrapyard Jack would like to present an innovative new technology: The shopping trolley, ehehehe!
----------------------------------------------
Good point, the shopping trollys a bit like a cargo container, you place your stuff inside untill it can be transported else where.
But its to be expected, that the people who hate the thought of getting killed stealing ore, are the very people who do it, and then yap on about daft reasons why its not stealing to take hard worked for ore.
Well if it was changed round so that we could kill a thief in high spec space, all the poor carebare robbers would be very poor.
:-)
QUOTE:
Have larger password protected cans which are very expensive. Put in a hacker skill, then have fun. If someone fails a hack detection roll ONLY the would be thief is flagged as if your corps are at war and you can roll in and kill them without Condord gankage. This would probably quell both sides of the house. The thief would also take a sec hit if a failure occurs.
------------------------------------------------
I like your thinking :-)
Edited by: NastyLlama on 05/07/2003 17:26:23
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 17:30:00 -
[52]
"Good point, the shopping trollys a bit like a cargo container, you place your stuff inside untill it can be transported else where."
ehehehe!
The carrier bag is the cargo container.
The shopping trolley is the indy.
ehehehe!
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Varna
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Posted - 2003.07.05 17:38:00 -
[53]
Well... Crapjackass is a thief.
Luckily: mining isn't real fun so lets kill crapass and have some fun!
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 17:47:00 -
[54]
"Luckily: mining isn't real fun so lets kill crapass and have some fun!"
Oddly enough, Scrapyard Jack would consider that to be immense fun, ehehehe!
Especially seeing you obliterated by Concord.
Hours of fun, oh yes.. ehehehe!
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Loviatar
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Posted - 2003.07.05 18:05:00 -
[55]
The biggest griefers can always be found in games with no PvP. In eves case it's the little ****s in high security space, I'm sure you'd just love to find a door to block wouldn't you.
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Tallon
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Posted - 2003.07.05 18:48:00 -
[56]
I had another thought. How about as non lethal repulser beam that miners can use with a high lvl mining skill. Say you lock up a thief and activate the device and it holds a ship out 1.5k and wont let it get any closer. The would be thief can always turn and leave just not get any closer. A thief would still have the ability to steel if he was smart and approached the miner in the direction the cargo pod is closest because the pods deploy 300 - 350m away from your ship. Kind of like putting rope around your claim.
To add fuel to the fire if I am standing in a busy area and I set down a bag next to me and some guy puts his hand in it I will forcefully remove his hand and tell him to go away. I just dont have that option currently in game. And yes if I am not paying attention and someone does it, yes I believe it is fair game. It will turn in to a his word against mine when the cops show up also.
LOL here is a visual for you all. If you are buying a ticket at the airport and have your bag next to you. What some of you are saying is that some person can walk up to you look you in the eye and open your bag, go through it and take what they want and leave. This is all while you are watching and are helpless to do anything about it.
Tallon
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Magallen
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Posted - 2003.07.05 18:50:00 -
[57]
It's still your property. When you place down something that belongs to you it doesn't make it ok for some stranger to come and take it away from you even if you walked away from it.
There is a simple solution to this problem. If you take ore from a container that belongs to someone who isn't in your gang or corporation you take a security hit. The more volume and quality of the ore(s) the greater the security hit you take.
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Korath
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:07:00 -
[58]
Sorry but I just can't agree with pirates hiding behind the police to commit "illegal" acts while the law abiding people are left powerless to deal with theaves. If someone opens up anothers container it should be considered a hostile act, period. I'm not saying make the cops come after them but at least make them open to attack if they steal from anothers container.
I dare you to come down to 0.0 space and try pulling that crap but of course you wont do that because you won't be able to hide behind the law.
It's a sad day when the police protect theives.
Edited by: Korath on 05/07/2003 19:08:38
Edited by: Korath on 05/07/2003 19:10:18
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:10:00 -
[59]
Booooooorrrrriiiiinnnngggg, ehehehe!
Ok, Scrapyard Jack just wants to make this point ooooooooonnneee more time...
Regardless of your intentions:
You didn't "put it down for a moment".
You threw it away.
Scrapyard Jack is at a loss as to how this is so difficult for some people to understand.
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Korath
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:15:00 -
[60]
I do understand what your saying. Your arguements are those of a 12 year old. If I park my car and go into a store, is it then ok for someone to take my car? No it's not.
If I leave my bar-b-q on the back porch of my house is it then ok for someone to walk up and take it? No it's not.
If I'm mining and I choose to store my ore in a container is it ok for someone come and take my hard work from me? No it's not, I should have the ability to stop them. I'm not saying make it impossible to steal but at least give people the ability to protect themselves withought having to go back to the station every time their hold gets filled up or have to deal with using 1 laser on an indy. It's just not a very efficiant way to do things.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:19:00 -
[61]
"I do understand what your saying. Your arguements are those of a 12 year old. If I park my car and go into a store, is it then ok for someone to take my car? No it's not."
Absolutely not! But if you jettison the car into a scrapyard, is it ok for people to go and take bits off it?
"If I leave my bar-b-q on the back porch of my house is it then ok for someone to walk up and take it? No it's not."
Of course not! But if you jettison your bar-b-q into the city dump, is it ok for someone to go pick it up?
"If I'm mining and I choose to store my ore in a container is it ok for someone come and take my hard work from me?"
If you jettison your ore into space, is it ok for someone to go pick it up?
You betcha, ehehehe!
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:40:00 -
[62]
Oh for the love of Peter, Paul and Mary!
The game mechanics you helped design to keep pirates from beating the tar out of you now protects scavengers? I call that an ironic twist of fate.
You want to protect your ore that you jettison into space? Go out to the 0.0 regions where you can be vaped by a real pirate. Or tell CCP to make it so that anyone who opens your container and not ganged with you or not in your corp becomes considered a hostile action. Then you can shoot them.
Though most of you aare armed only with mining lasers so I can't imagine what you'll shoot them with other than harsh words. Which is why you're begging for CCP to lock the containers. Which I think is an exploit in the first place (whoever heard of a container with infinite space anyways? Even Bags of Holding from D&D had a limited capacity).
Gold Brick/Scrapyard Jack:
Shear the furbearers till they get hypothermia from the cold :D
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Trom
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:50:00 -
[63]
"Though most of you aare armed only with mining lasers so I can't imagine what you'll shoot them with other than harsh words."
warp/propulsion scramblers and then my 2 missile launchers and passle of combat drones.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:54:00 -
[64]
"warp/propulsion scramblers and then my 2 missile launchers and passle of combat drones."
A fine arsenal indeed! ehehehe!
However, bear in mind that ore thieves usually operate in Concord protected space. If you attack them, you will be attacked by Concord and be killed.
Also bear in mind that Scrapyard Jack flies a Thorax, has good fighting skills and has no need for mining lasers, ehehehe!
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Aldamar
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Posted - 2003.07.05 19:58:00 -
[65]
People don't seem to realize just how much these guys steal. Gold Brick does nothing but go around from belt to belt in his Badger II and steal ore. A couple nights ago he was in the bounty channel trying to sell 100k of noxium. In just 1 mineral type from the ore he stole that is 25,600,000 isk if he got top price for it. Theft of this magnitude should not be completely without consequences. People should have options to take care of these parasites.
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Guardian334
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:01:00 -
[66]
Children.
Go. Away. From. Safe. Space.
Do. Not. Stay. In. The. High. Traffic. Areas.
Complaining about people taking stuff you're mining in systems with tons of people walking around ... there are a lot of negative adjectives that can be used to describe you.
Grow up and go find a quiet corner.
Or, option B, continue whining like a child on the boards.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:02:00 -
[67]
"People should have options to take care of these parasites."
ehehehe! But they do!
Mine smart, and don't leave ore lying around.
It's completely avoidable.
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Trom
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:04:00 -
[68]
"However, bear in mind that ore thieves usually operate in Concord protected space. If you attack them, you will be attacked by Concord and be killed.
Also bear in mind that Scrapyard Jack flies a Thorax, has good fighting skills and has no need for mining lasers, ehehehe!"
See, even you call yourself a thief(kind of negates all your posts about how you are not stealing and just picking up what others throw away).
This is exactly the problem. Thieves should NOT be protected by the police. Thieves should take a faction hit and be open to attack by whoever they stole from and if the thief wins the fight they should take a faction hit for killing the person that was protecting thier ore. However if the person protecting thier ore wins they should get positive faction for being a good citizen.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:20:00 -
[69]
"See, even you call yourself a thief"
Scrapyard Jack never claimed different, however in the eyes of the game mechanics, there is no crime.
Scrapyard Jack's point is that cannister-mining is not "the way" to mine. Certainly, it is a method that increases the speed and ease of mining, however these benefits do come with a risk.
Namely, Scrapyard Jack (and associates).
Simply put, you should not be able to enjoy the benefits of 5 CU-Vapor bores/10 harvester drones and the unlimited cargo space that a cargo cannister offers. Certainly not with 0% risk.
If there is a crime here, it's yours, boyo!
ehehehe!
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snotty
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:27:00 -
[70]
he,
no badmouthing about me, ok i "stole" a beam one time way back in beta but i mine my own ore.
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Trom
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:29:00 -
[71]
Actually I agree with your last post Scrapyard Jack. But just as you say I should not be able to mine without risk, neither should thieves be able to steal without risk. Thieves should NOT be protected by the cops.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:31:00 -
[72]
"neither should thieves be able to steal without risk."
Well, that's the thing ain't it, boyo?
In the eyes of the game mechanics, they're scavengers, not thieves hence, no comebacks.
ehehehe!
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:38:00 -
[73]
"Certainly, it is a method that increases the speed and ease of mining, however these benefits do come with a risk.
Namely, Scrapyard Jack (and associates)."
Scrapyard you are a freakin genius. I bet there wont be a celebral booster for you for a long time, cause you are too smart!
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:40:00 -
[74]
"Scrapyard you are a freakin genius. I bet there wont be a celebral booster for you for a long time, cause you are too smart!"
ehehehe!
Cheers, chuck!
Scrapyard Jack don't do too bad for a guy who was dropped on 'is head as a clone, ehehehe!
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Kaleb
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:43:00 -
[75]
If anyone see Scrapyard Jack please message me. I'd like to kill him. ;p
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.05 20:47:00 -
[76]
ehehehe!
Scrapyard Jack is in Odatrik, Heimater.
See you soon, eh?
ehehehe!
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.07.05 21:27:00 -
[77]
Just a note on the jettisoned containers; they do not have unlimited space. They are limited to 27,000m3 I believe. While this may seem to be a lot, it can be quickly filled.
According to the legal system inside the game, it is not considered a violation of any law to salvage free floating items in space. This is the way the law is in game, so you will have to exercise your rights in the game to deal with those who would salvage ore and other items.
According to the legal system inside the game, it is a violation of the law to attack another citizen, unless it is done in self defense of life (i.e. they have to shoot you first).
For those who wish to have the laws changed, it would seem the Intergalactic Summit would be a good place to voice your opinion. It will be the in-game law which will need to be ratified. Perhaps, with enough support, some of the governmental bodies will ratify their laws to include protection of jettisoned containers.
Be aware, in the past, such law ratifications often incur additional charges. I would not be surprised to see increased taxes imposed to cover the additional costs incurred with extending monitoring to include jettisoned containers, container ownership registration, processing fees, and any number of other costs.
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Sanru
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Posted - 2003.07.06 00:11:00 -
[78]
Well Scrapyard Jack, I probably shouldn't bother even replying to a simple minded troll such as yourself, but what the hell, I'm bored.
You know full well the ore isn't being abandoned. So knock off the coy act that your not in fact stealing.
The more reasonable of us agree it should be possible to steal, this isn't really the issue. The issue is theft has no repercussions. Theft in every single human society is considered a crime, in some cultures it's even punishable by death. Theft is taking what isn't yours, the cargo wasn't yours, hence you were stealing. And stuff that BS about jettisoned cargo being abandoned and no longer yours, you know that isn't the case and I'm sick of you parroting the same line. It's like saying if I have to leave the trunk of my car open to move stuff from the trunk to my house, anything in the trunk is fair game to whoever walks by. Sure, they could take something, but I'd be within my legal rights to detain them and call the police.
Carebear argument my butt, it's a carebear who wants to take no risks in profiting off others.
So you never leave empire space Jack ? I predict a very boring future for you. But should you venture out of empire space, I'd say you've annoyed a great number of people and I wouldn't count on keeping that Thorax too long.
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Gold Brick
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Posted - 2003.07.06 01:01:00 -
[79]
Sanru, you are the carebear here. There are consequences to picking up abandoned cargo containers. You get on everyone's hit list. Most are pathetic, but occasionally one gets lucky or is simply persistant.
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Sanru
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Posted - 2003.07.06 01:19:00 -
[80]
I'm not going to waste my time with you Gold. Your intellect is far too primitive to explain anything more than the most simple of things.
So I'll just leave you with a tall glass of STFU with a chaser of FOAD.
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Gold Brick
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Posted - 2003.07.06 01:23:00 -
[81]
Sure Think Fondly of U and Friends Of All Dudes?
You are just another mark.... go mine for me.
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Shill DeGruin
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Posted - 2003.07.06 09:59:00 -
[82]
I will also make it a personal ( and maybe corp ) aim to kill Scrapyard Jack at evry opportunity. You are a piece of scum....
My sec rating ? Bah ...wh cares . My sub will be cancelled if CCP doesnt sort out these loopholes ultra quick,
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.06 10:03:00 -
[83]
"I will also make it a personal ( and maybe corp ) aim to kill Scrapyard Jack at evry opportunity. You are a piece of scum...."
And Scrapyard Jack will make it a personal aim to collect up your corpses after Concord (with the noble assistance of Scrapyard Jack) reduce your shiny lil ship to the consistency of crab paste, ehehehe!
"My sec rating ? Bah ...wh cares . My sub will be cancelled if CCP doesnt sort out these loopholes ultra quick,"
Bah, crybaby!
ehehehe!
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Tyr Bowman
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Posted - 2003.07.06 11:06:00 -
[84]
There is a simple solution to this problem which dosent even require a patch.
Always mine in pairs. Have a miner and a hauler... One person mines and gives the hauler the ore, the other hauls the ore back to base, and the profits are split 50-50.
If you cant find anyone you trust to mine or haul, then join a corp who runs regular mining operations. If you dont wanna join a corp, then perhaps you should rethink about how you make your ISK ;)
I container mine with my corp all the time, and yes i've had my ore stolen once or twice. While it was a pain at the time, it was entirely my fault for jettisoning the container in the first place, so i'm not gonna complain!
by the way Jack, your posts are damn funny!
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three fitty
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Posted - 2003.07.06 11:32:00 -
[85]
ok i have done both
now when i ripped off some ones cargo i thought it was random spawn i was very new to the game and in a belt one system away from the starting system i found 7k units of ore all by itself out in space (who am i going to ask)so i loaded up my n00b ship and went back to the station...,guy probobly lost 2 mins work of ore of course my second trip it was gone. i never knew who's crap it was
now that i realise what people are doing i would not take someone elses work and i do it myself sometimes
of course i tried to find a system out of the was that has very few visitors and i understand its a risk i am taking the first time an indie ganks my ore ill move to a new system 2nd time i might have to rethink my tactics
i leave my door mat in front of my house , i expect it to be there in the morn
if im at a pub and someone goes to take a **** i dont swipe there smokes off the bar eather
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Bolka
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Posted - 2003.07.06 12:07:00 -
[86]
A good thread to highlight the idiots around...
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.06 12:11:00 -
[87]
CCP¦s staement is, what you leave in space is free for all to take. Learn and live with it and adapt, instead of whining.
Ain¦t it what miners told combat people?
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.07.06 13:43:00 -
[88]
quote
CCP¦s staement is, what you leave in space is free for all to take. Learn and live with it and adapt, instead of whining.
Ain¦t it what miners told combat people?
-----------------------------------------------
The real point is that people can rob steal or what ever against you or your corp, and becouse its in high spec space then nothing can be done.
This is not good for the game.
I for one cant wait untill I'M able to leave highe spec space, soon as I'M all set up ready, then bye bye high sec space and hello to real fun.
Thats where the real game will be played out to my thinking.
The silly people cant live out in low sec space due to players being able to blast the arse wipes out of existence :-)
Some new players living in the high sec areas my get a bit naffed off with the growing nombers of players running around acting like 12 year old snotty kids, unable to see the damage this dose to the game.
We need to express out rage in the game by blasting players who commit acts of robbery and theft, whats the point of playing a PvP game if you cant fight back.
Its going to get worse, as more players are forced to return to the old time, long hall,major time waisting mining lark, we will see more players leave.
Mining is important and dam hard work, its mining that starts every thing going in this game, from production to drive the market, that makes for equipment and ships etc.
The faster you can mine, the faster you can progress to other areas of the game, if mining is getting killed by the high sec pirates who need take no risk, then the miners of eve will in the end see no point to it and quit.
At the moment the problem is not to bad, but like all problems of this type, it will grow into a larger problem [I hope not but we will see in time]
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.07.06 14:07:00 -
[89]
The answer is a simple one. Have a disposable ship ready and armed. When you see a thief, go get the ship and blow them into atoms, pod him and try to get to a gate. Worst case scenario is you lose some sec rating and a ship that was meant to be lost. I'll bet his new clone costs more than your old ship.
Sarkos
Voushod and Spiritual Advisor
Oracle Tribe
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Aldamar
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Posted - 2003.07.06 17:24:00 -
[90]
At least Gold Brick is not a coward was well as a thief. Scrapyard Jack is both. Gold Brick is in his own corp so you have the option to have your corp go to war with his and then can shoot him anyplace/anytime without cops interfearing or SS hit. Unfortunately you can't do this with Scrapyard Jack because he is still hiding in his newbie corp.
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