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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:07:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Originally by: Valentine Keen
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 13/04/2005 10:44:08
Personally I can't help but think that a fleet of 10 Scorpions or a fleet of 10 gunships - if you're fielding either of those you deserve to lose.
Apparently you haven't been in a fleet battle lately. 99% Gank - Sniper BS 1% Covertops = teh Win.
I didn't say those fleets don't win, I'm saying they shouldn't if the game is to be balanced and challenging for all.
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:08:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Tobiaz on 13/04/2005 12:10:30
Originally by: Kuolematon
Before you have even tried those you complain. That says something about your tactics. You want easy and fast gangs and Frags Per Second makes you horny.
How about you play a role in spacegame rather than wh00p everyones ass as fast as you can sing? 
ROFL, how many battles have you seen the last 6 months?
Or better: of how many have you been at the side that got totally pwned?
People fight for the win, some even only for the killmails 
Fact is though, that with the 120km warpin at enemy by a covert ops with a fleet of tachs and 1400s:
- Means instadeath for the unlucky guy who's name follows the words "primary target" no matter what kind of ubertanked apoc he's flying
- Means tacklers are fecking useless both because of the range, the hit and run tactics and people dying anyway before they can press 'warp'
- Means EW is useless both because of the range and because the enemy just warps out when EW might become troublesome (and kill them in the next 2 or 3 jumpins).
- Means pretty certain victory for the people that can coordinate it well enough (being pretty much every PvP corp) vs. people trying anything else. Just look at Xetic: every larger fleetbattle where Xetic was willing to fight they got raped. There should be a f*cking memorial in 68FT.
Strategy is dead in any prolonged static encounter larger then 5 ships.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:17:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Valentine Keen
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Originally by: Valentine Keen
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 13/04/2005 10:44:08
Personally I can't help but think that a fleet of 10 Scorpions or a fleet of 10 gunships - if you're fielding either of those you deserve to lose.
Apparently you haven't been in a fleet battle lately. 99% Gank - Sniper BS 1% Covertops = teh Win.
I didn't say those fleets don't win, I'm saying they shouldn't if the game is to be balanced and challenging for all.
I apologize and agree.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:19:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Wild Rho
The only real gripe I have with the ew changes is the ranges. If they could add a module that worked like a sensor booster that boosts lock range and ew range (but not lock time) it would help improve the situation as right now sniper setups will probably be the main thing for the moment.
That's something I noticed on Singularity while trying to test the new EW:
Sniper ships 4TW. No EW can reach them.
With stupid fast locktimes imparted by 2 or 3 or more sensor booster 2s a sniper setup will be sitting nice and pretty out at 150-200km and plinking away at anything they choose - notably the futile EW and Tackler frigs desperately trying to get close enough to do some good.
IMO The unbalancing effect of stacked sensor boosters needed (NEEDS) a huge nerf in itself. Same with every other mod out there that stacks with little 'penalty' if any at all. But leaving them unchanged while making the ship using them invulnerable is a major game balance upset.
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Poister
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:20:00 -
[35]
I agree with Lifewire 100%.
Also I like to point out there are a number of posters here that realy do not have a clue what they are talking about.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:21:00 -
[36]
To answer the poeple that like the changes and expect a "more balanced" game or more balanced fleets - this will not happen. Extreme fleets with pure and fast ganking-firepower are the best reaction on this patch. Combined with covert ops these gankteams will allways be at their optimal range and they will kill fast - and warp out if jammed. The game mutated to be pure gank. ECM was the counterbalance to damagemod-stacking. This is broken now.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lifewire
To answer the poeple that like the changes and expect a "more balanced" game or more balanced fleets - this will not happen. Extreme fleets with pure and fast ganking-firepower are the best reaction on this patch. Combined with covert ops these gankteams will allways be at their optimal range and they will kill fast - and warp out if jammed. The game mutated to be pure gank. ECM was the counterbalance to damagemod-stacking. This is broken now.
Fair point, I have to admit I only really operate in small groups of 5 to 6 ships and I tend to avoid larger fleets for exactly the reasons you mentioned above so my experience there is pretty limited.
I always thought that the larger fleets used straightup ganking anyway so I didn't see the ew changes making that much of a difference.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:39:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Scorpyn on 13/04/2005 12:46:52
Caldari battleships are now useless for fleet battles. Except the Raven, if you want a close range frig killer.
Since I'm not in fleet battles that much nowadays it's not that much of a big deal - they are still useful in small close range fights - but for those who participate in fleet battles more it will most likely be more noticeable.
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Al Haquis
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:48:00 -
[39]
Guys , really check out the new ew skills. Give a scorp pilot, with caldari bs lvl 4-5, a month to train the optimal and the falloff skills and he will be uber.
After having checked the skills and the option what you can do with them i come to the comclusion that the ew changes are actually good and after a month when people have there skills trained up we will have endless post about how ew is way to strong and needs to be nerfed.
Now you can actually be a ew specialist and train and work with some skills. Your not a specilist if you can use a scorp and ecm.
And beeing abile to warp scramble at 40km :) well lets say this combat just go alot more intence.
So guys please check out the falloff , optimal bonus skills have a coffee and a smoke and start training ew.
CCP congrats now an ew-specilist reallys is an ew-specilist not just a guy in a scorp.
BTW : check the scorp/bb bonus changes and do the math guys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Council Member, Tahiri Warrior
Masuat'aa Forums
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Jernau Gurgeh
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Originally by: Minsc
Did you guys even try ECM? a fleet of 10 scorps would easily lock down and kick the crap out of a fleet of damage ships, just forget about using multispecs ffs, 4 racial jammers per scorp could cover virtually any combination of bs setups with maybe 1 or 2 losses on the scorps side.
god you guys are so quick to complain.
And what exactly are those 10 Scorps going to do when the enemy warps in at 120+km and start pounding their sorry asses?
Warp out perhaps?
There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not. |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:53:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Al Haquis
Guys , really check out the new ew skills. Give a scorp pilot, with caldari bs lvl 4-5, a month to train the optimal and the falloff skills and he will be uber.
After having checked the skills and the option what you can do with them i come to the comclusion that the ew changes are actually good and after a month when people have there skills trained up we will have endless post about how ew is way to strong and needs to be nerfed.
Now you can actually be a ew specialist and train and work with some skills. Your not a specilist if you can use a scorp and ecm.
And beeing abile to warp scramble at 40km :) well lets say this combat just go alot more intence.
So guys please check out the falloff , optimal bonus skills have a coffee and a smoke and start training ew.
CCP congrats now an ew-specilist reallys is an ew-specilist not just a guy in a scorp.
BTW : check the scorp/bb bonus changes and do the math guys.
For once I agree with a UK pilot 
The new EW will take some getting used to, but with the right skills, it will be truly scary.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:54:00 -
[42]
<- EW 5 and PJ 5
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Burzon
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 12/04/2005 22:29:43
It has become a fact: ECM was "patched". I played roundabout 5000 h EVE in the last 2 years - pvp only.
Jesus, you better get a real life !
CEO PAX Interstellar Services
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.04.13 12:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Wild Rho
(an idea maybe could be to make a new ship that is an AWACs type ship, it can lock up to 6 friendly ships and give them a boost to ew strength, just an idea that occured to me on the spot).
Cool idea, you could also have the reverse, A ship that can instalock (with a long range high slot module) 6 ships and shower them in EW.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.04.13 13:04:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Andrue on 13/04/2005 13:04:28
Originally by: Burzon
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 12/04/2005 22:29:43
It has become a fact: ECM was "patched". I played roundabout 5000 h EVE in the last 2 years - pvp only.
Jesus, you better get a real life !
I think what we're seeing here is the unsubtle art of exageration. Taken at face value the poster is claiming an average of 7 hours a day every day for the last two years. Worse still they claim that was "PvP only".
I think that level of blatant exageration and misrepresentation should be taken into consideration when his posts are read.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Burzon
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Posted - 2005.04.13 13:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Andrue
Edited by: Andrue on 13/04/2005 13:04:28
Originally by: Burzon
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 12/04/2005 22:29:43
It has become a fact: ECM was "patched". I played roundabout 5000 h EVE in the last 2 years - pvp only.
Jesus, you better get a real life !
I think what we're seeing here is the unsubtle art of exageration. Taken at face value the poster is claiming an average of 7 hours a day every day for the last two years. Worse still they claim that was "PvP only".
I think that level of blatant exageration and misrepresentation should be taken into consideration when his posts are read.
Sure it should, but still, openly claiming to have played even half of that time would bring me back to my comment :D
CEO PAX Interstellar Services
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.04.13 13:11:00 -
[47]
I have been trying out the new ECM system, and a pair of dampners in a maulus seem to work quite well for a throw-away support ship, and be quite sustainable power-wise.
There short(ish) range, and ability to strip others of range does seem to lend them to the 'blaster' way of war.
I wonder what effect a combined fleet of maulus' and megarathrons would have.
I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2005.04.13 13:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Originally by: Minsc
Did you guys even try ECM? a fleet of 10 scorps would easily lock down and kick the crap out of a fleet of damage ships, just forget about using multispecs ffs, 4 racial jammers per scorp could cover virtually any combination of bs setups with maybe 1 or 2 losses on the scorps side.
god you guys are so quick to complain.
And what exactly are those 10 Scorps going to do when the enemy warps in at 120+km and start pounding their sorry asses?
Warp out perhaps?
The primary will be down before he even gets to order the warp to command.
The others might escape.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Alithieniel Cascade
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Posted - 2005.04.13 13:22:00 -
[49]
I personaly can perfectly understand where devs comning from with all the new skills for EW. And i sorta think its cool. But, 20sec duratin on multispec is a no-no, no more cyrcle jamming, gl trying to coordinate jamming in 10vs10 fights, also cap usage seems bit hight for firages to use them at all.
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Jamin Berry
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Posted - 2005.04.13 13:45:00 -
[50]
Lifewire u nub!!!
dont say stuff like this!!
CCP base EVERY pvp patch on tundragon.
i mean i cant go into details right now, but from what i have seen, they do. its either that, or coinsidence. i mean the last 2 i can remember when i was fighting against u was the large groups of thoraxs with more drones than a Bumble Bee jigglo house, ganking norad BS left right and centre. then speed ruptures(altho used by CA and others alike).
but seriously i think TDG and the devs should have a 10 vs 10 anyway.
my 50 cents
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Every time you click here i get 5 smac a ronies |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.04.13 15:38:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Lifewire u nub!!!
dont say stuff like this!!
CCP base EVERY pvp patch on tundragon.
i mean i cant go into details right now, but from what i have seen, they do. its either that, or coinsidence. i mean the last 2 i can remember when i was fighting against u was the large groups of thoraxs with more drones than a Bumble Bee jigglo house, ganking norad BS left right and centre. then speed ruptures(altho used by CA and others alike).
but seriously i think TDG and the devs should have a 10 vs 10 anyway.
my 50 cents
lol...we loved EW...especially when attacking outnumbered it was the only option to win a 5 vs 10. But the EW changes does not only affect Tundragons - it will affect the consistance of all fleets. Since i play EVE extreme tactics (5 Thorax, frig-only, EW-strike, Gank-firepower) work very good. And the EW patch is the try to balance an extreme tacticc (EW-strike/jam the whole enemy team). But in the end it only favors another extreme tactic: the gankfleet with fastlocking damagedealers. My corpmates and me really have no problem in adapting, since 95% of us have very very good tempest/geddon or gun skills. But does this mean i have to like this patch? I see the problem that EVE as game looses and that PVP got less interesting.
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Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2005.04.13 16:22:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lifewire
To answer the poeple that like the changes and expect a "more balanced" game or more balanced fleets - this will not happen. Extreme fleets with pure and fast ganking-firepower are the best reaction on this patch. Combined with covert ops these gankteams will allways be at their optimal range and they will kill fast - and warp out if jammed. The game mutated to be pure gank. ECM was the counterbalance to damagemod-stacking. This is broken now.
I dont know where you've been fighting, but the majority of fleets I've seen lately are gankships with a cov ops with little or no EW. This patch probably won't change most of that. There may be more sniping setups true, but if they want to do descent damage they'll have to stay with weaker ammos or they will still be in range for ECM ships. Scorps and blackbirds are still the uber jammers. You can seriously still jam 4-5 targets with little to no problem with either of them and you get more feedback about which module is jamming and when it stops (neat little timer).
What has changed is the possibility for other ships to jam you as well. No longer do you have to have at least 5-6 mid slots to be useful in jamming. You can use ships with 3-4 mids and have a chance to jam something, albeit less of a chance than the caldari ships.
The game has turned into more of a thinking game with a lot of coordination rather than call a primary and roll the f-keys. How are those 10 gunships going to kill ANY ship when 2 scorps can neutralize most, if not all of them. With skills trained up, you'll be able to jam people up to around 200km with a Scorp (that includes optimal and falloff). Not to mention that there are 8 more scorps backing up the lock that the first two have. A 10 v 10 against the devs (or any breathing PvP'er) with scorps would end up with the scorps staying and laughing while the gunships warp out. Neither would lose too much if anything because the gunships wont be able to hit and the missiles wont get to the gunships before they warp out.
The is far from a bad patch, it just changes up the system some which is complicated at first but will bring a lot more balance in the end to the EW modules.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.04.13 17:55:00 -
[53]
After much testing on Sisi of this patch before it was ported onto TQ all I have to say is it rocks:
It has brought previously useless ships back into the fold. Prime examples here would be the celestis/malus. A maximum skilled celestis with RSD II/ Phased Muon RSD can reduce the locking range/time of a ship to 3% of its original. That ship now kicks ass in a specific EW role that was previously missing.
The patch has also made EW more interesting and diverse between the races (Caldari: blanket jamming, Gallente: Targeting sensor jamming, Amarr: Weapon computer jamming, Minmatar: Target painting)
It has made EW a more viable career option for High Mem/int Characters, over long training times on Gunnery skills with poor perception/willpower attributes
In terms of blanket jamming it has made specific racial jammers actually worth while. With only Caldari BS II (EW skills at V) I had a jamming optimal of 113km with racial jammers. The Scorpion has the potential to get a 121.5 Km optimal EW range and 11.25 EW strength on a single racial jammer. With just two racial jammers you stand an excellent chance of jamming any Battleship at an equivalent range to typical fleet battle gunships. If you stack signal amplifiers in your low slots you have the potential for 8 Racial jammers and yes they do work.
Two Scorpions can easily carry 12 racial jammers between them, 3 for each type of Battleship, making an excellent addition to any fleet.
In short its made EW better, but not the next no-brainer. 
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
Larno
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Posted - 2005.04.13 18:08:00 -
[54]
I agree the ECM changes are bad. The problem is this:
You can get a fleet of 10 gunships (turrets not missiles) and then call primary and secondary targets. You can have all 10 ships focus fire on the primary. Any pilot worth his salt will be locking BOTH ships not just the primary. All ships open fire on the primary and the primary dies fast. No damage is wasted, because the second the target is dead your guns stop firing. Move onto second target, rinse, repeat.
Problem with ECM: You can't just call primary target. You have to call like 10 targets so you dont get overlap. With this patch I guess you will just get scorps locking as many as possible and putting 1 ECM on each. Makes more sense this way imo.
Problem with missiles: (I think this is balanced overall, but not balanced in fleet combat) Primary target is called. 10 missile boats fire torps. Primary target warps. Ammo is wasted, no effect. This is your problem for choosing missile ships. But also at the same time even if the target does not warp, it does not take 10 volleys of torps to kill something. Most of the ammo is wasted on this.
Turret ships FTW basically. Basically fleet setups are limited to:
High slots: High dot turrets
Med slots: ECM or Sensor booster (ECM to use on any random target because it still has a chance of working even with 1 multispec on a BS).
Low slots: Damage mod with maybe a couple of tracking mods.
The beauty of eve is the diversity of setups you can have. This is basically not true in PvP anymore, only in NPCing which tbh ain't everyone's cup-o-tea.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.13 18:27:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 12/04/2005 22:29:43
It has become a fact: ECM was "patched". I played roundabout 5000 h EVE in the last 2 years - pvp only. This makes me think that devs donŠt know what they do when they "patch" something because they did not play 5000 h - they were starring at the EVE code. I donŠt have a problem to adapt to this patch - but i donŠt like that EVE PVP is reduced to pure firepower. EVE lost a lot of options in PVP with this unbalanced patch.
I want to ask the devs: why should i when i setup our hunting team fit more than one ECM ship now??? Give me one reason to not fit all BS as fastlocking gunships with maximum damage mods.
I also want to challange the devs to a 10 on 10. 10 devs in Scorpions vs 10 gunships. I bet we win this 10:0 because the devs Scorps will fall like flys while they coordinate their efforts to jam. The first 2 Scorps will even die before they get a lock. A gunship team only has to coordinate their primary and secondary target, while a ECM team has to coordinate the EW vs 10 targets (on teamspeak or gangchannel). The best part is that they have to re-coordinate their EW-efforts after each cicle. The ECM team has nothing: no tanking, no good damage output (crappy missiles) - they have only their ECM items and a lot of deadly targets that all need to be jammed. Only 1 or 2 not jammed gunships will hurt very fast, while the Scorps missiles (depending on comnbat range) do no or small damage.
Sorry devs - but i really have to say your EW-patch is crap. The reaction on this will be massive usage of gankships, even more than these gankships allready were used in the past. Sniping setups will also be used more. But calling this "EW-patch" is more than a joke. EW was just destroyed. EW might still be an option in smaller engagements (3 vs 3), but the larger the battle is, the less EW will be usefull, because coordinating EW is very difficult and this way it doesnt make sense at all to use EW. Gankships will rule.
EW was a way to fight outnumbered in the past. It was no problem to attack in a 5 vs 10 if there was a good EW plan. It was possible to attack 5 BS in 5 blackbirds and it was possible to win this battle if the 5 Blackbird-pilots did no mistake. EW was a powerfull item to good organised teams that offered options to win "unwinable" combats. EW was also an options for newer players that have bad gunskills to be usefull. I want to ask: why was this "patched"??? Can a dev plz explain this??? Do devs expect PVP to be better now??? Am i wrong when i say EVE was just reduced to fastlock and pure damage dealing setups???
This is right on the money. The nexus of the question is, as you state, why 10 gankgeddons are profoundly more powerful than 10 scorps now???? Should ten of anything of a given class be that much more capable than ten of something else of the same class????
How is this balanced?
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.13 18:40:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dust Puppy
10 scorps vs. 10 gunboats? What exactly would be the point of that exercise? The devs don't want ECM > all and they don't want gunboats > all. They want a balanced fleet of EW boats, damage boats, support boats and all that. If you want to change that fight into your 10 gunboats vs. devs mixed fleet my money is on the devs.
There is one thing that is right and that is it is a whole lot more difficult to coordinate a 10 EW boats in a fleet battle. It is no longer just to tell the newbie jammer who to target but now the jammer not only has to have good jamming skills but he also has to know what he is doing.
Well to your question though then I think one vs. one fights can be a little more subject to luck if one or boths ships have jammers. In small skirmishes of roughly even fleets I think EW will rule but in large fleet battles I think a damage setups will rule provided that the fleet is organized.
IMO EW has got a whole lot more interesting.
Have you ever been nailed by a truly well skilled "high damage\max damage setup" BS? There is nothing "Fun" or skilfull about the experience. Everything is decided before the engagement in two regards:
1) The setup for max damage is correctly considered(all you have to do is look on this board for many different example setups for any BS of your choice)
2) Whether or not "team gank" chooses to engage a given adversary.
Once the aforementioned two items are decided correctly, then nothing stops the gank....now at least. Prior to the patch, the gank might not even take place because serious consideration had to be given to the presence of even a single EW asset in a small group engagement situation. Now you just barrel in and gank away while they circle jerk each other and quabble incomprehensibly over teamspeak.....trying mightily to coordinate this "chance based, ever few seconds" brand of EW we have now.
You don't have a reasonable expectation of coordinating EW now. That's what the original poster was saying and claiming in regards to it promoting the exclusive "gank ship" preference.
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.13 18:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Burzon
Originally by: Andrue
Edited by: Andrue on 13/04/2005 13:04:28
Originally by: Burzon
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 12/04/2005 22:29:43
It has become a fact: ECM was "patched". I played roundabout 5000 h EVE in the last 2 years - pvp only.
Jesus, you better get a real life !
I think what we're seeing here is the unsubtle art of exageration. Taken at face value the poster is claiming an average of 7 hours a day every day for the last two years. Worse still they claim that was "PvP only".
I think that level of blatant exageration and misrepresentation should be taken into consideration when his posts are read.
Sure it should, but still, openly claiming to have played even half of that time would bring me back to my comment :D
To me, even in exxageration as his remark was clearly, it still means that he has some basis from which to put forth his claims.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.04.13 18:48:00 -
[58]
When i read the answers here i think that a lot of people talk about things they did not experience much. "Testing on testserver" and talking about the "new EW-pilot career"...sorry guys, thatŠs all theory that cannot be compared to tranquillity ship-setups. A prepatch attack on 10 enemy BS with 5 Scorpions (EW-strike with a good EW-plan) was possible - i wouldnt try this now postpatch. Prepatch-attacks were allready very dangerous if the EW-group failed to jam all enemys damagedealers very quick. Since the backup arrays (ECCM) are lowslot items, EW was the direct counterpart to damagemod-stacking.
BShips have 3 main attributes: damage output, value the ship can suffer damage and possible EW-options. If we talk about gang combats we talk of battles between 5 or 10 or up to 50 vs 50 players... we talk about teamplay. The larger the battle is, the harder it is to coordinate EW-efforts. It was already a prepatch problem that EW-ships didnt have a high combat value in large engaments. Pure firepower ruled. Tanking is also useless since the "primary target" will die anyway - tanked or not, it will die in 0,5-2 seconds...if tanked in 2 seconds - lol.
Give me just 1 reason to fit more than 1 EW ship now after patch! To have teamspeak full of EW-pilots pressing sendkey to coordinate their EW-battle??? No thanks - pure firepower will now rule even more than prepatch! 1 fleetcomander will name primary and secondary targets and this will be EVE-PVP. This is why the EW-patch is NOT a good patch. People that know little or nothing about PVP discussed "how EW has to be changed" and DEVs with also low knowledge about what really happens out there in deep 0.0 just patch without seeing the problem that they made EVE a less interesting game. Be sure that our huntingteam will be 10 maxdamage and fastlocking gunships in future. Whatever warps or jumps in will simply be ganked in 0.5 seconds (fleetvolley). On the other hand the frig-hunting-style is highly boosted with this EW-patch. The EW-patch is a gift for groups of 5-10 frigates that want to sink single-flying BS. I am not ****ed about "being nerfed" since i am not nerfed! I simply donŠt like that EVE lost a gamestyle and is reduced to pure firepower. I do agree with people that say 1 Scorpion in a group of 10 ships is a usefull ship - no question: this EW-Scorpion can jam up to 3-4 ships with some luck and such an EW-Scorpion can definitivly win a battle "alone" by reducing the enemy firepower. But coordinating several EW-ships will be nearly impossible and the best part of EVE (attacking 10 enemy BS in 5 BS or attacking 5 BS in 5 Blackbirds) will be history now.
The real problem were people that didnt fit backups and complained a lot about beeing jammed all the time. Soon they will complain about brutal firepower - just a mather time. EW was fine - now itŠs a "toy" and all gangs will have 1 Scorp (that always will be primary target  ).
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.13 18:54:00 -
[59]
I'd like to isolate on the following part of Lifewire's reply:
Originally by: Lifewire
But in the end it only favors another extreme tactic: the gankfleet with fastlocking damagedealers. My corpmates and me really have no problem in adapting, since 95% of us have very very good tempest/geddon or gun skills. But does this mean i have to like this patch? I see the problem that EVE as game looses and that PVP got less interesting.
(emphasis added my me)
Basically the rationale t0mb gave for doing this stuff was to more depth to EW skillwise and make it more interesting. I think we clearly can see that this had boomeranged and actually just makes another set of extreme tactics the preferred approach and of course doesn't nothing to make pvp more interesting.
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Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2005.04.13 19:13:00 -
[60]
1 v 1 at any normal range (15km-150km), the scorp can jam any gunship without much problem at all (assuming ew skills and bship skills are trained to decent levels). 5 jammers, Sensor Booster, Shield Booster, Shield Boost amp/Shield hardener. If you need a little extra range add a sig amp in a lowslot. With that setup, you should never lose to a sniper 1v1.
10 v 10 with the same scorp setup, the primary scorp target will not likely die before the scorp fleet gets a lock though it will take serious damage. At sniping ranges, you will definitely not kill a ship before they can lock. If there is no other coordination than each ship jam another ship, the 10 gunships are rendered useless. If the gunships are closer with stronger ammo, you could possibly lose a scorp before all the gunships are targeted and jammed. However, it will be HIGHLY unlikely to lose a second scorp unless the pilots are complete idiots.
The truth is that EW is still VERY effective and quite useful in fleet engagements especially in a scorp or blackbird.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
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