I can't believe this needs clarifying to people.

Actually this one is really easy to read, so it is a good link to send people to who do not read the forums or Dev blogs.

*Sigh - Isn't prereq of the Racial BC skill Racial Frig IV?

*sigh*

Yes but as previously stated in everything despite the fact that the prerequisite for training Racial BC will be Racial Frigate IV EVE's skill system works in such a way that if you are given Racial BC to whatever it will override the fact that in theory you haven't trained the prequisite.

Not "will be" - "is". You cannot fly a BC today without a Racial Frig IV and Cruiser III.

So if what you say is correct I just "wasted" a couple days training...

Bummer

And just in case it is clear this will NOT give you any extra abilities to what you already have and, in fact, if you never plan on flying more then a single race's Battelcruisers there's no point in doing it.

If you do plan on flying all races BCs though then I'd advise to do this now simply because it will save training later as the reqs change from Cruiser III to Cruiser IV

Someone mentioned that you wont gain anything.. but it is my understanding that you will.

If Before the Change you have:
all 4 Racial Frig IV
all 4 Racial Cruiser III
BattleCruiser V

After the change, if I understand the devblog correctly, you will then be able to fly all 4 races Command Ships, since they stated the Cruiser 5 prereq would go away.

DO I have this wrong?

I can't believe this needs clarifying to people.

The only thing it will allow you to do is fly racial battlecruisers without neccessarily having racial cruiser to IV (as it requires IV after the change but only requries III now).

it means if you are able to fly an Oracle by having Amarr Cruisers 3 and Battlecruisers 3, we will remove the Battlecruisers skill from your character and give you Amarr Battlecruisers at 3

Therefore if today you have Amarr cruiser III and BC V and you do nothing, after these changes, to have the OTHER BC hulls at the same skill you must train the racial cruiser to IV AND the racial BC to V.

No this isn't how skills in EVE work. Just because the skill has a prequisite doesn't mean you can't fly it if you have the skill when in theory you shouldn't.

Devs have already clarified this.

No this isn't how skills in EVE work. Just because the skill has a prequisite doesn't mean you can't fly it if you have the skill when in theory you shouldn't.

Devs have already clarified this.

Are the changes where Capitals will require only BS 4 also going to be introduced at the same time?

Please state also, how T2 BC requirements will be changed.

And interdictor requirements. Will Sabre still require Minmatar Frigate V (plus the new Minmatar Destroyer V)? Or will it be revised to only require Minmatar Destroyer V?

Same question with regard to Claymore and Minmatar Cruiser V/Minmatar Battlecruiser V.

[*] Cut needless requirements for tech 2 ships across classes. Tech 2 philosophy is all about specializing into a specific hull and role, thus, requiring players to train for Assault Ships, then Heavy Assault Ships when aiming for Field Command Ships, is quite redundant.

And interdictor requirements. Will Sabre still require Minmatar Frigate V (plus the new Minmatar Destroyer V)? Or will it be revised to only require Minmatar Destroyer V?

Same question with regard to Claymore and Minmatar Cruiser V/Minmatar Battlecruiser V.

So someone just help me here... If I have the following:

Caldari Frig 5
Amarr Frig 4
Gallente Frig 4
Minnie Frig 4

Destroyers 5

Caldari cruiser 5
Amarr cruiser 5
Gallente Cruiser 4
Minmatar Cruiser 4

Battlecruisers 5

Then I will get all racial Destroyer skills and all racial Battlecruiser skills to 5 when this change hits, correct?

Could you please clarify for me, is the skill training time multiplier staying the same for the new skills so it would take 4 times the amount of time to train all races BC to 5 ?

or is the training time multiplier on each skill being lowered?

Some people need to think first about what this could mean for the cost of their medical clone.

Ok, this was something I was wondering about. Since we're taking 1 Battlecruiser skill and turning it into 4 Racial Battlecruiser skills, will this quadruple the amount of skill points we have in battlecruisers?
i.e. If I have Generic BCV pre-patch and it is 1,000,000 skill points, will I have 4,000,000 BC skill points after patch?

Same story with Destroyers V becoming 4 racial destroyers V?

What happens with the skill split when I'm 50% towards BC 5 (lets call it "4.5")? Do I get the all racial BC skills to lvl 4 or to lvl 4.5 (ofc asuming I have cruiser 3 for those racial ready).

I would like an answer to this question as well...

Apparently this message was too confusing and/or obscure.

It was too obscure, but by location and not by content.

That does answer that question though. I imagine it's easier for them to do it that way.

I agree with location and such.

What I really would like to see is something more in game as far as important dev posts and such instead of just isolated in the forums. Everyone knows that a very small percentage of players come to the forums and an optional ticker window that can be resized to something very small would be appreciated. I know some of you like to shout from on top of your soap boxes proclaiming that those who do not have a second monitor for just the forums and murdering their F5 key; in fact deserve to suffer the wrath of the 'lack of knowledge' gods. This line of thinking is a bit on the childish side.

Players need more communication with announcements via in game, as well as on the forums.

[...]

It's safest however to assume that only full levels will transfer, and you have more than enough time to get all the skills you need before the change if you want all 8 skills at lvl 5.

I assume they'll give you the same SP per skill that you currently have in the generic skill. So if you're at BC 4.5, you'll have Amarr BC 4.5, Gallente BC 4.5, etc.

It's safest however to assume that only full levels will transfer, and you have more than enough time to get all the skills you need before the change if you want all 8 skills at lvl 5.

Not giving us a target date for the change is just trolling us. Seriously - this is the second time you've attempted to put us into a panic over this. We have other training needs as well. Not being able to prioritize because you just like messing with us is harassment.

I agree with location and such.

What I really would like to see is something more in game as far as important dev posts and such instead of just isolated in the forums. Everyone knows that a very small percentage of players come to the forums and an optional ticker window that can be resized to something very small would be appreciated. I know some of you like to shout from on top of your soap boxes proclaiming that those who do not have a second monitor for just the forums and murdering their F5 key; in fact deserve to suffer the wrath of the 'lack of knowledge' gods. This line of thinking is a bit on the childish side.

Players need more communication with announcements via in game, as well as on the forums.

Are you being serious? They had a dev blog on it.
Not only that but reading the forums before you log in is always recommended to keep an eye on those *insert your enemy here*.
I swear it take 10 min to get educated.

Just two things to add:

1) I do not have a second monitor.
There's a button called Dev Posts.
I check it at work while others take their smoke break, IF I remember. 10 mins a day usually more or less enough just to get a feel of what I need to read at home, if at all. No F5 key murdering required.

2) What question did it not answer? Integer

Or did you mean how they didn't add a timeframe? Wasn't part of the question I was answering I believe.
Half a month or so one CCP member let slip how it's not this year.
If you are not on a remap now, you can totally make it with +4 implants.
Heck, I'm on an Int/mem remap, and I'll still make it in time having only started recently (and no, didn't remap, I'm accepting the extra training time needed)!
If you are on a remap, there were devblogs out on it, that are shown as you log in, so you should have seen it. The toon you post on is like 9 months old, I'd say at least two devblogs mentioned it since then.

Vulture (Command Ship) Pre-Reqs
- Caldari Cruiser V
- Caldari Battlecruiser V
- Logistics IV
- Command Shps I
- - Warefare Link Specialist IV (primary pre-req for Command Ships)

Is this correct?

No.

...
Oh, should I go for a longer answer?
Was in a devblog or something.
Tiericided skill requirements won't require any other ship class at V but the T1 version.
In return, they are looking into ways to keep the time to sit in one similar.

...
Which I find silly with the current pre-tiericided T2's state, as T3s take less time to get into, and are quite often more prefered.
...But it may be a Me problem.

Edit: link1. Missing the second half - for now.

Can't believe all these people need to be forcefully coerced to either train BC V or Destroyer V, which are both amazing skills that don't have very long training times (No 20 days isn't a long time).

Cut needless requirements for tech 2 ships across classes. Tech 2 philosophy is all about specializing into a specific hull and role, thus, requiring players to train for Assault Ships, then Heavy Assault Ships when aiming for Field Command Ships, is quite redundant.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129

However, reducing training requirements for various ship classes is not a side-effect we are necessarily happy with

Sorry for my poor english but i don't understand, is CCP planing to give free SP to veteran ?!
Personnaly i can't and won't restat to learn BC V et Destro V on my "main" for some month (or need 2 free restat..), i'm certainly not alone and i don't understand why CCP should give free SP ? tears ?
EvE is not supposed to be hello kitty online, if free SP is given to a player just because he have already many SP, i prefer unsubscribe my accounts now..

Outrage.

Sorry for my poor english but i don't understand, is CCP planing to give free SP to veteran ?!
Personnaly i can't and won't restat to learn BC V et Destro V on my "main" for some month (or need 2 free restat..), i'm certainly not alone and i don't understand why CCP should give free SP ? tears ?
EvE is not supposed to be hello kitty online, if free SP is given to a player just because he have already many SP, i prefer unsubscribe my accounts now..

Outrage.

Sorry for my poor english but i don't understand, is CCP planing to give free SP to veteran ?!
Personnaly i can't and won't restat to learn BC V et Destro V on my "main" for some month (or need 2 free restat..), i'm certainly not alone and i don't understand why CCP should give free SP ? tears ?
EvE is not supposed to be hello kitty online, if free SP is given to a player just because he have already many SP, i prefer unsubscribe my accounts now..

Outrage.

You might want to read that picture again, to make sure you understand it correctly.
For the Amarr command ships, neigher logistics nor HAC skills will be required, according to the following picture (Taken from the handy explanation in the dev. blog you linked):
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Skilltreeafter_1920.jpg

Logistics ships will still use the logistics skill and get bonuses as it is now, but the fleet command won't use the skill.

Definitely going to start training these up. I'm curious though, how will the split work if we are in the middle of training either Battlecruisers or Destroyers when the patch is deployed? Will we be reimbursed those skillpoints, or will they be split among the racial BC/Dessie skills?

Don't get me wrong, I am training the skills as we speak to do this, I am just simply wanting to understand fully in detail about what's going to happen.

The blog I posted ( http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129 ) does show new "ship progressions" pics for each race further down... I guess I mistook that for skill progression on some level. The way the arrows line up with that is a tad bit confusing to me, so if someone could explain the ship line pictures better I might not be so confused on the subject :)

Don't get me wrong, I am training the skills as we speak to do this, I am just simply wanting to understand fully in detail about what's going to happen.

The blog I posted ( http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129 ) does show new "ship progressions" pics for each race further down... I guess I mistook that for skill progression on some level. The way the arrows line up with that is a tad bit confusing to me, so if someone could explain the ship line pictures better I might not be so confused on the subject :)

Whether it will need any of the prereqs for the above ships is unknown but at a guess the requirements would also lose at least some of long range targetting 5, signature analysis 5, weapon upgrades 5, mechanic 5, engineering 5, gunnery 2, electronics 2 and possibly only keep leadership 5 warfare link spec 4, spaceship command 5.

Hello everyone,

Lately there have been a lot of posts on the forum pertaining to the proposed splitting of the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills into racial variants as discussed in this dev blog from CCP Ytterbium.

If you could fly it before, you will be able to do so after the change. You will be automatically given the new racial BC and Destroyer skills at your current BC/Destroyer skill level if you also have the corresponding racial Cruiser/Frigate skill to 3.

Yup I found this video which helped a lot... it had an extra picture on that slide that wasn't on any of the Dev Blogs (maybe a DEV can post a high quality picture of it up?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5wnCBfkMh8

That's the video... the picture is here (poor quality):

http://i.imgur.com/8m5uc.jpg?1

They are all here in this devblog.

CCP has said that if you're partially through training BC IV to BC V, you will only get racial BC IV after the change, and the partial levels will not transfer.

Can you show me where that was stated? So do you get reimbursed the points if you are partially trained in BCs? I mean if i spend 20 days training BC V, and I only make it through 15 days of training before the patch hits... do I lose those 15 days?

I'd like a source for this information too if you have it.

Jesus people just get all your all-race frig, cruiser, and the BC skill to 5. Problem solved.

I would actually like to see the harbinger be the drone boat for amarr,

if the prophecy ends up being the drone boat it wont make any sense, lets compare it to the ferrox. the ferrox can have either missile launchers or guns on it, the vulture is the gun boat iteration of the ferrox, and the nighthawk is the missile boat iteration of the ferrox. caldari use both hybrid turrets and missiles so this setup is sound with both the lore and the t2 versions have a fitting commonality with the t1 version.

prophecy, laser boat, absolution, t2 laser boat, damnation is a missile boat and while this doesn't seem to fit with amarr at all, remember that the khandid kingdom is a splinter group of amarrians that have adopted many caldari concepts and technology, so lore wise the damnation makes sense.

some of you might be saying that the amarr empire does have an example of a drone boat, so making the prophecy a drone boat harkens to that idea, i say lets look closely at the arbitrator, yes it is a drone boat, the pilgrim is a drone boat, and the curse is a drone boat, so unless we want to make the prophecy a drone boat, absolution a drone boat, and the damnation a drone boat to fit the evolutionary model that the arbitrator fits, it doesn't make sense.

now in my opinion the harbinger being a drone boat makes sense because it is already a stand alone ship with no t2 iterations, so we can make it anything we want without having fitting commonality issues or lore issues.

Except it forces people to waste time on skills they aren't necessarily ready for, sacrificing quite a bit of improvement on what they currently DO need and are ready for, so no, its not that simple.

Except it forces people to waste time on skills they aren't necessarily ready for, sacrificing quite a bit of improvement on what they currently DO need and are ready for, so no, its not that simple.

you can actually train up for a single race of battlecruisers FASTER after the patch.

It won't be any faster than it is now. The battlecruisers skills will be of the same rank as they are now (rank 6).

What will be faster is training for single-race command ships post-patch.

Hello boyz,

We currently working hard to get that skill plan cleared up and final so we can tell you in advance what's going to happen.

This change is mainly done for:

• Consistency: we would like all ship training to be consistent and logical with each other, which isn't the case at the moment. We have racial tech1 spaceship command skills (Amarr Cruiser, Amarr Frigate, Amarr Battleship), plus some generic skills (Destroyers, Battlecruisers) which mess things up. Thus training for Amarr Command Ships require a weird mix of Amarr Cruiser plus Battlecruisers 5 instead of simply going for Amarr Battlecruiser 5.


• Easier to specialize: the point of splitting the Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills in four is to make it faster for new players to specialize in tech2 ships. New players are often recommended to specialize to compete with veterans and we would like to promote this. The side-effect is that it will take more time to generalize in more than one race, but we consider it to be acceptable and something more suited for longer-term players with more skill points to work with.


• Cut nested requirements: there are some tech2 ship skills that require others to be achieved. This is the case for Heavy Assault Ships for instance, which require Assault Ships to be flown. Ideally, we would prefer if pilots that specialize in a certain ship class don't have to train another class they don't care about. Example: if I am a pilot interested in supporting my fleet with Warfare Links, why do I either have to train for Logistics or Heavy Assault Ships to either unlock Field or Fleet Command Ships? The difficulty however is to replace those skills with others that make sense for the tweaked ships themselves (we don't want them to be too easy to train however).


• Clear ship and module specialization confusion: in some cases, you are not only required to train a set of skills for the tech2 ship you wish to unlock, but also have to train another set of highly specialized skills for the module that goes into the ship itself. There is nothing anywhere telling you about that and that is a double training time sink (ex: Interdictors and the interdiction sphere launcher). Which is why we would like to couple this point with the one above and rework some of the tech2 ship specialization skills to make more sense in general.

No matter what, please remember that you will still be able to fly unlocked ships even after the change. More info to be delivered as soon as possible through a Dev Blog.


Hope that helps a bit.

While I won't be affected by this either way, I do want to counter that not only does the old way make sense, but it helps explain the quirks of the hulls themselves to the uninitiated. I don't ever recall wondering what size modules go on a battlecruiser or destroyer as a rookie. It is obvious that a dessie gets frig size modules by the skills it requires.
Still, I'm long past the point of this change ever hurting me except in being asked annoying questions.

Hi ,

skimmed through the thread so forgive me if this has been stated but when are the changes likely to happen?

the first post just says sometime this year - do we now know when?

thanks in advance

Are the Battlecruiser skills being split into racial version at the same time as these changes?

We have been planning to split the Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills into racial variations (Details can be found in CCP Ytterbium's dev blog here) for a while, but we've been vague about the when. Originally I had hoped to get the changes into this point release, but we've seen an opportunity to both build better tools to help players understand the changes (communicating the mechanics involved is something we could have done better so far) and also combine the skill changes with some other adjustments that fit together well. So I now have permission to let you all know that the skill change is scheduled for our Summer expansion 2013 (which most of you know tends to fall in the late spring). We'll be working to make sure that as many people as possible understand the changes beforehand. I know that some of you may feel that we've been stringing you guys along since the changes were first proposed so long ago, but we're working to make sure a huge change like this is done in the most responsible way possible.

To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion.

Mmmm and yet in the CSM minutes we see :

"Fozzie preemptively addressed the question of a timeline and stated that the BCs were on schedule for the February expansion, while Battleships would be held back until the summer expansion."

Everything slips I suppose.....

Mmmm and yet in the CSM minutes we see :

"Fozzie preemptively addressed the question of a timeline and stated that the BCs were on schedule for the February expansion, while Battleships would be held back until the summer expansion."

Everything slips I suppose.....