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Relgast Losi Laboratories 0	Posted - 2012.11.23 19:59:00 - [1] - Quote This is a thought i have had, and i thought i would mention it and see what other people thought of it... Some people dont want multiple accounts, with millions of toons to manage... What they want is to train their 3 toons all at once, rather than just being able to train one at a time.. What if CCP offered a $4.99/mo "Additional Skill Queue" addon to your account... Where for each addon, you could train an additional character at a time. What do you guys think? Would you do it? Would this be a decent revenue stream for CCP? Gast
Mistah Ewedynao Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:01:00 - [2] - Quote Relgast wrote: This is a thought i have had, and i thought i would mention it and see what other people thought of it... Some people dont want multiple accounts, with millions of toons to manage... What they want is to train their 3 toons all at once, rather than just being able to train one at a time.. What if CCP offered a $4.99/mo "Additional Skill Queue" addon to your account... Where for each addon, you could train an additional character at a time. What do you guys think? Would you do it? Would this be a decent revenue stream for CCP? Gast Great way to make a ton of isk selling characters
baltec1 Bat Country 2912	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:02:00 - [3] - Quote No its a pay to win and we have zero interest in it. We have already burned down one statue to stop this kind of thing creeping into this game.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:03:00 - [4] - Quote Mistah Ewedynao wrote: Great way to make a ton of isk selling characters Great way to make character sales yield zero ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10725	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:06:00 - [5] - Quote Wait, you're serious...... hahahahahaha CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Relgast Losi Laboratories 0	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:07:00 - [6] - Quote What if the "additional queues" would train at 50% speed or something like that... so its not such a pay to win...
blake fallout Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:09:00 - [7] - Quote Relgast wrote: What if the "additional queues" would train at 50% speed or something like that... so its not such a pay to win... Asked befour - And .... Nothing Happened ..... So. Linkin park
baltec1 Bat Country 2912	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:10:00 - [8] - Quote Relgast wrote: What if the "additional queues" would train at 50% speed or something like that... so its not such a pay to win... Its still pay to win and thus, not welcome in this game.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 173	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:13:00 - [9] - Quote Its an interesting idea but to be honest one account = one character can train has been a part of eve since its creation, messing with that formula now is a good way to lose a lot of players in a big hurry. Plus as people have said it reeks of pay to win, somrthing which isnt very popular around here at all.
Generals4 1573	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:14:00 - [10] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Relgast wrote: What if the "additional queues" would train at 50% speed or something like that... so its not such a pay to win... Its still pay to win and thus, not welcome in this game. You would be correct if it were pay to win to begin with. Allowing you to train two toons on the same account for an extra 5$ is as much pay to win as being able to train two characters for an extra 15$ (creating a new char). In the first case you have the limitation you can't use both accounts simultanously and pay less and that's where the difference ends. So if that's pay to win you better start whining about having multiple accounts because it's pay to win too. *-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.*
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 1403	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:15:00 - [11] - Quote bad idea. 1/10 Every Ship in GëíGêçGëí \| [FX7] \| Vote Cthulhu 2012
Relgast Losi Laboratories 0	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:18:00 - [12] - Quote I understand the fear of "pay to win", i think everyone agrees that concept is bad... However, dont we already have that? If you want a top end char, buy some plex, sell for isk, buy toon = win. How would this kind of program be any different?
Jeremy Soikutsu Homeworld Republic Intrepid Crossing 25	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:19:00 - [13] - Quote Generals4 wrote: baltec1 wrote: Relgast wrote: What if the "additional queues" would train at 50% speed or something like that... so its not such a pay to win... Its still pay to win and thus, not welcome in this game. You would be correct if it were pay to win to begin with. Allowing you to train two toons on the same account for an extra 5$ is as much pay to win as being able to train two characters for an extra 15$ (creating a new char). In the first case you have the limitation you can't use both toons simultanously and pay less and that's where the difference ends. So if that's pay to win you better start whining about having multiple accounts because it's pay to win too. This said this idea won't ever be implemented because it's bad business for CCP. Probably not empty quoting.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 2987	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:20:00 - [14] - Quote 5$ is way too cheap for such an advantage. It should be at least double that per additional training character.
Demolishar United Aggression 462	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:21:00 - [15] - Quote Nah, pointless.
David Campbell Riposte. 36	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:21:00 - [16] - Quote If that feature was available for a fee a bit lower than the cost of an other account, I don't see how this would fall under the "pay 2 win" category. Remember that you can't be logged in 2 characters on the same account at the same time. But 4.99$ a month is too low. For it to be fair it should be at least around 20Gé¼ (24$).
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 173	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:24:00 - [17] - Quote Relgast wrote: I understand the fear of "pay to win", i think everyone agrees that concept is bad... However, dont we already have that? If you want a top end char, buy some plex, sell for isk, buy toon = win. How would this kind of program be any different? Because someone has had to train that character to that level using the one account = one character training model before you can buy it, I admit its a pretty fine distinction but it is there.
Generals4 1574	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:24:00 - [18] - Quote David Campbell wrote: If that feature was available for a fee a bit lower than the cost of an other account, I don't see how this would fall under the "pay 2 win" category. Remember that you can't be logged in 2 characters on the same account at the same time. But 4.99$ a month is too low. For it to be fair it should be at least around 20Gé¼ (24$). Why would anyone in his right mind pay 20Gé¼ to train skills on a toon he can't use while using his main when he could just get a new account and train skills for 15Gé¼ a month and be able to multibox. *-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.*
Relgast Losi Laboratories 0	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:26:00 - [19] - Quote I came up with the $4.99 based on: $15/mo get your 1 skill queue and 3 char slots so, a third of that would get you a queue but no additional char slots... (sorry i dont know conversions to the other currencies) Sounds like the value of a skill queue is "most" of the value of the account, based on what i am reading here...
Mai Khumm Homeworld Republic Intrepid Crossing 312	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:30:00 - [20] - Quote $4.99 for an additional slot, or $14.99 per toon. Mmmmmmmm, let me think what they'd rather do... Since EVE will be pay to win very soon. --> 65 Mil SP subcap pilot/45 Mil SP Caldari-Indy Cap pilot looking for Powerbloc Coalition...
Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 78	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:30:00 - [21] - Quote Relgast wrote: What if CCP offered a $4.99/mo "Additional Skill Queue" addon to your account... Gast Im not sure but if so,I quit EvE, also no advantage for money, but would be nice to swich character without restrarting eve client, of course for free! :D
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:31:00 - [22] - Quote David Campbell wrote: If that feature was available for a fee a bit lower than the cost of an other account, I don't see how this would fall under the "pay 2 win" category. Because you get access to more stuff and more abilities than you normally get by paying for it. What the OP wants already exists: it's called getting a second account (and maybe getting a character transfer at the end). Relgast wrote: I came up with the $4.99 based on: $15/mo get your 1 skill queue and 3 char slots You miscalculated. For $15, you get one month of server access and one month (and three days) of skill training. If you want another month of skill training on top of that, but no additional server access, $13 would probably be a better price. Sure, in terms of actual costs, the server access probably costs CCP more, but since it's the training time you want to buy, it'll be the one that drives the price up. At that point, you might as well go for the full $15 to get double access, and then everyone's happy. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 173	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:32:00 - [23] - Quote Relgast wrote: I came up with the $4.99 based on: $15/mo get your 1 skill queue and 3 char slots so, a third of that would get you a queue but no additional char slots... (sorry i dont know conversions to the other currencies) Sounds like the value of a skill queue is "most" of the value of the account, based on what i am reading here... Pretty much yes, only real reasons to have multiple characters on an account is either because youve trained everything you want to on one and are training the second while using the first or if you want a throwaway alt for random crap you cant do with your main. Ive got one on my account for low level hauling in highsec, since im -10 it isnt worth me doing it on my main.
Zoctrine Perkone Caldari State 13	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:33:00 - [24] - Quote David Campbell wrote: If that feature was available for a fee a bit lower than the cost of an other account, I don't see how this would fall under the "pay 2 win" category. Remember that you can't be logged in 2 characters on the same account at the same time. But 4.99$ a month is too low. For it to be fair it should be at least around 20Gé¼ (24$). Uhmm... Why do that?
Jame Jarl Retief Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 384	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:37:00 - [25] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No its a pay to win and we have zero interest in it. We have already burned down one statue to stop this kind of thing creeping into this game. That's very hypocritical. Right this minute I could go buy 60 PLEX, convert it into 30 Billion ISK and buy a character with 100 million SP. How is that not pay-to-win? Oh, sure, the character had to be created first. Which means someone did it. But how is someone doing it on alt account really different from CCP simply creating one out of thin air? To the end-consumer (i.e. pay-to-win guy) there's zero difference where the character comes from.
Mr Pragmatic 84	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:43:00 - [26] - Quote I like it. Bitter vets hate any new ideas. Unless its destroying miners. cause your KM whoring is so important. Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -Aldous Huxley
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:44:00 - [27] - Quote Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Right this minute I could go buy 60 PLEX, convert it into 30 Billion ISK and buy a character with 100 million SP. How is that not pay-to-win? Because you're not creating more than already exists or bypassing any mechanics in doing so. Quote: But how is someone doing it on alt account really different from CCP simply creating one out of thin air? Because doing it the hard way means following a swath of balancing mechanics that keep the economy of characters and abilities in check and keeps them all from being worthless. By your logic, spending a second to type /add_ISK 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 and is no different than spending a decade hunting rats to spawn all that ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
David Campbell Riposte. 36	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:50:00 - [28] - Quote Zoctrine wrote: David Campbell wrote: If that feature was available for a fee a bit lower than the cost of an other account, I don't see how this would fall under the "pay 2 win" category. Remember that you can't be logged in 2 characters on the same account at the same time. But 4.99$ a month is too low. For it to be fair it should be at least around 20Gé¼ (24$). Uhmm... Why do that? Because those 20Gé¼ more would give you 2 additional training queues when you would need 2 accounts @ 15Gé¼ each for the same result with current mechanic. The tradeoff being that you wouldn't be able to log in you character simultaneously hence the slightly reduce fee over additional accounts. It would be a choice to make, making it possible for people with different gameplays to find the solution that better fit their need. I honestly don't know if this feature is needed though. I'm just saying that if it were to be implemented, 20Gé¼ more would be a sweat spot, not 4.99$.
baltec1 Bat Country 2912	Posted - 2012.11.23 20:53:00 - [29] - Quote David Campbell wrote: Zoctrine wrote: David Campbell wrote: If that feature was available for a fee a bit lower than the cost of an other account, I don't see how this would fall under the "pay 2 win" category. Remember that you can't be logged in 2 characters on the same account at the same time. But 4.99$ a month is too low. For it to be fair it should be at least around 20Gé¼ (24$). Uhmm... Why do that? Because those 20Gé¼ more would give you 2 additional training queues when you would need 2 accounts @ 15Gé¼ each for the same result with current mechanic. The tradeoff being that you wouldn't be able to log in you character simultaneously hence the slightly reduce fee over additional accounts. It would be a choice to make, making it possible for people with different gameplays to find the solution that better fit their need. I honestly don't know if this feature is needed though. I'm just saying that if it were to be implemented, 20Gé¼ more would be a sweat spot, not 4.99$. So CCP ends up losing money...
Dave stark Black Nova Corp. R O G U E 682	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:02:00 - [30] - Quote or you could just, y'know, make another account? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 1918	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:04:00 - [31] - Quote Relgast wrote: Would this be a decent revenue stream for CCP? Absolutely. I'm surprised they haven't already done something like this, to be honest. After all they had no problem jumping into the RMT business when they introduced PLEX as a way to buy ISK. Would it be 'pay to win'? Well... no. It would be pay to get stuff without playing. But since that's already an integral game mechanic with PLEX and character sales, it's a non issue. Mr Epeen -á\O/
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:08:00 - [32] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Relgast wrote: Would this be a decent revenue stream for CCP? Absolutely. I'm surprised they haven't already done something like this, to be honest. Probably because they'd lose money on it and because it would rather go against their GÇ£no P2WGÇ¥ policy. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Sentamon 269	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:08:00 - [33] - Quote . ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
David Campbell Riposte. 36	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:08:00 - [34] - Quote baltec1 wrote: So CCP ends up losing money... Not necessarily. I can't answer that question since there are a lot of thing to consider. For instance, having an other account logged in the server cost money for CPP, in bandwidth, server cost etc... You would need to compare the profit margin of an additional skill queue to the profit margin of a separate account. The fact that you pay them more doesn't mean that they make more profit out of it. You also need to factor in the opportunity cost. Some people have alts (such as market or manufacturing alts) on their main account that they do not train or pay for simply because they are skilled enough. A reduced price for skill queue might provide an incentive for people to pay extra in order to skill these alts a bit further. [Edit] : Grammar
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:09:00 - [35] - Quote Sentamon wrote: How does this help you "win" exactly? It lets you bypass the normal game mechanics that put constraints on what you can do with your account and your characters. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Sentamon 269	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:11:00 - [36] - Quote How if this pay to win and paying for other accounts not? It's actually less powerful then an alt account. The only problem here is that your price is too low. It should be the same cost, or very close to the cost of maintaining another account. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:12:00 - [37] - Quote Sentamon wrote: How if this pay to win and paying for other accounts not? Because those extra accounts work the same way all other accounts do GÇö this money-boosted account does not. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
David Campbell Riposte. 36	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:13:00 - [38] - Quote Tippia wrote: Sentamon wrote: How does this help you "win" exactly? It lets you bypass the normal game mechanics that put constraints on what you can do with your account and your characters. Once again, so does being allowed to use an infinite number of alts accounts.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:14:00 - [39] - Quote David Campbell wrote: Once again, so does being allowed to use an infinite number of alts accounts. No, it doesn't. They follow the same mechanics and constraints that this idea is intended to remove. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Noriko Mai 671	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:15:00 - [40] - Quote I had this idea of a forum section where you can post ideas. What do you think about it?
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 1918	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:16:00 - [41] - Quote Tippia wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Relgast wrote: Would this be a decent revenue stream for CCP? Absolutely. I'm surprised they haven't already done something like this, to be honest. Probably because they'd lose money on it and because it would rather go against their GÇ£no P2WGÇ¥ policy. My answer to that is in the stuff you chose not to include in your quote, of course. You are getting sloppy, Tipps. Mr Epeen -á\O/
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:16:00 - [42] - Quote Noriko Mai wrote: I had this idea of a forum section where you can post ideas. What do you think about it? Maybe if you could post about features as well, but nahGÇª it'll never catch on. Mr Epeen wrote: My answer to that is in the stuff you chose not to include in your quote, of course. Since you didn't address the issue of them making any less money or the issue of bypassing mechanics, no, of course you didn't. What I choose not to quote was a bunch of misinformation and misunderstandings about how PLEX work, because there was no need to perpetuate that nonsense. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
David Campbell Riposte. 36	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:18:00 - [43] - Quote The fact that you would pay extra, wouldn't make your character better in any way. Hence no pay to win. It allows you to have more skilled alts for a fee which having other account does too. If that is pay to win, then CCP should forbid alt accounts, and I also expect a lot of player (me first) complaining about that.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10411	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:20:00 - [44] - Quote David Campbell wrote: The fact that you would pay extra, wouldn't make your character better in any way. GÇªbut it would make your account better compared other accounts simply because you paid money for it, hence P2W. If you want to train two characters as once, use the mechanics for it: get a second account. If you want to have two high-SP characters on one account, use the mechanics for it: transfer a character from one account to the other. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.

ISD TYPE40 ISD Community Communications Liaisons 3130	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:23:00 - [45] - Quote Thread moved from GD to F&I - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

David Campbell Riposte. 36	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:28:00 - [46] - Quote Lol, Eve is not a free to play game. A full account is better than a trial one because you're paying for it and I see no problem with that. Once again I'm not saying that this feature is needed. But we are not talking about any unfair advantage, golden ammo or SP for money. I still fail to see how this solution, which I agree would differentiate that kind of account from a regular one, would make your EVE experience more unfair. I mean, to me it's not worse than some dude multiboxing 15 hulk using a multiboxing software or running sleeper plex with 4 accounts.
Noriko Mai 671	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:28:00 - [47] - Quote And now die you bad thread!
Mr Pragmatic 84	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:28:00 - [48] - Quote ISD TYPE40 wrote: Thread moved from GD to F&I - ISD Type40. Haha, this is where good ideas go to die. Anyways, it would be a good way to diversify and have a more dynamic gaming experience whilst saving money. Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -Aldous Huxley
Crimeo Khamsi AirHogs Zulu People 25	Posted - 2012.11.23 21:28:00 - [49] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No its a pay to win and we have zero interest in it. We have already burned down one statue to stop this kind of thing creeping into this game. You do realize you can buy plex and sell for isk in game, yes? Which you can then use to buy characters with as many SP as you want...
Relgast Losi Laboratories 1	Posted - 2012.11.23 22:16:00 - [50] - Quote Oh well, it was a fun discusion while it lasted... Thanks all for the comments, i will include them in my report...
Dori Tos Galactic Innovations 3	Posted - 2012.11.25 02:16:00 - [51] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No its a pay to win and we have zero interest in it. We have already burned down one statue to stop this kind of thing creeping into this game. I get mad every time I see people on this forum who still don't understand how much of a pay to win festival this game already is. besides.I don't see how paying to see a second character undertaking training on your main account is any more "pay to win" than a second character undertaking training on a second account,and given the price/benefit is well balanced it could be a good feature.. Have a second slot for 10$/month, essentially a second account for 5$ cheaper but you can still only log one character at a time, while when you pay for 2 accounts,it's more expensive but you can actually log two characters. I'm delicious.
Laurence Pinkitin Aliastra Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.11.25 02:32:00 - [52] - Quote The fact we can only train one at atime is a utter sham and you want to prenerf it twice? christ this player base...
Liam Li PrivateCorp100100 3	Posted - 2012.11.25 03:01:00 - [53] - Quote What a terrible idea, it throws the thrill and fun away of buying/selling characters in a market.
Konrad Kane 24	Posted - 2012.11.26 08:58:00 - [54] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No its a pay to win and we have zero interest in it. We have already burned down one statue to stop this kind of thing creeping into this game. Why is it 'pay to win'? Isn't it the same as having an alt account, just less flexible?
Goldensaver Vorbild Industries Inc. 99	Posted - 2012.11.26 09:36:00 - [55] - Quote Maybe I just don't get it, but I don't see how wasting your money on another account that you can't multibox is pay to win... Especially if these "additional training slots" were to cost a certain amount of aurum, equivalent to 1/2 of a plex, or something like that. I mean, I'm the proud owner of 4 accounts. I have lots of training to do, and I need the accounts because i multibox. You can't multibox on one account. The only thing this would change is that I could train up the "support" (PI and market trading) character for my PvP characters at the same time.
Cosmoes Peraka 8	Posted - 2012.11.26 09:41:00 - [56] - Quote tl;dr: This is not a pay to win (directly) and seems like a good idea at first. but it leads to pay to win like situations and general bad balance. I like the idea of being able to train up side accounts for r&d, cyno alts, empire hauling alt etc. and I've played around with doing this a few times (with r&d agents). Adding an account management feature to do it at reduced price would definitely make me happy and I'd jump on it. As for being pay too win... well it's complicated but I'd say not directly. It's technically more of discount similar to the discounts you get for paying by the year instead of monthly or the power of two sale that went about. The pay to win term while having some clear cases (eg. gold ammo) has very many borderline cases or cases of accepted pay to win and I'd say this fits in here. The problem is it would lead to making another pay to win borderline case much worse than it currently is. Paying for characters is a pay to win. BUT it is accepted in eve because of how common it is in games regardless of weather it's allowed or not, having it done via GTC or ISK prevents people from cashing out their game time into real cash and drives away some of the industry that follows that sort of game. It's generally overall good for health of eve to have a legit way to pay for characters even if it is pay to win. With this change training up a characters for selling would be 3 times easier than it currently is thanks to reduced cost. Unfortunately my crystal ball is broken so I can't predict what would happen to an eve where creating characters for selling was incredibly overpowered but I do not see it being in anyway good. Getting images of a future where you can either spend 6 months playing the game and learning slowly or spend the same in GTC's to buy a 1.5 year old character that thx to min maxing, implants and professional skill plans has the SP you wouldn't have till you've been playing for 2 years. Does not sound good in my opinion. While the bonus to training hauler/r&d/manufacturing/cyno alts would be nice the rampant abuse of selling accounts via this would not be nice.

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