Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec

I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?

Don't fill something that is supposed to be used for bulk transport :TRITANIUM: with plex and blueprints, PROBLEM SOLVED!

To be fair, there are some stuff that is needed in bulk (both in terms of volume and numbers) and which has an annoyingly high ISK/m-¦, but stillGǪ

GǪmultiple trips will be required for all the stuff anyway so one might as well plan it out, and mix the loads to spread out the risk.

I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?

I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?

Tactics to neutralize freighter ganking you say? You may have overlooked the following possibilities sir.

1. Use a scout
2. Perhaps bring a small escort if you insist upon cramming your freighter to the brim with PLEX/Officer mods
3. Not cramming your freighter to the brim with PLEX/Officer mods in the first place
4. Avoid the systems where there are obviously buttfucktons of freighters being exploded.
5. Being at your keyboard (I know this one is a rather extreme and unsavory measure)

Those are just off the top of my head, although I don't fly a freighter and so do not consider myself to be an expert.

I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?

What high sec needs is Citizens On Patrol to deal with these gankers and killing the freighter they use to scoop the loot. Like what has already been said, stealing from a wreck flags the freighter making him a legal target to kill.

Noone shoots in high sec is because there nubs or care bears / scared to give someone else kill rights and they dont know they can shoot without consequence. Once Dec. 4 hits. I believe things are going to change.... Slightly...

It wouldn't work unless all the logistics are already in position before the gank happens, are alert, and pre-rep every freighter that they see.

Also, a big LOL at carebears coordinating an effort of such scale and complexity. Most of those people don't even know how to put shield hardeners on their exhumers, let alone work as part of a large, complex RR gang.

It goes without saying that people would have to pre-rep, and the co-ordination would be huge. I stated that in my original post.
But to laugh at the general co-ordination of high sec players is like laughing at Incursion runner co-ordination, or wh squads doing PvE.

Seems to me that there are several hundred players running Incursions at any given time, and 20-30% of all pilots in those fleets are logi pilots.

I would further suggest that such a service should be free, and the logi pilots only gain is the satisfaction on thwarting a suicide ganker.

The mindset that "I shouldn't have to do anything, pay anything, or change my playstyle even EVER so slightly, it should be done for me via CCP buffing something or another player/group of players coming to my rescue for free" is exactly why freighters can and will continue to be bumped/ganked, and miners will continue to be bumped/ganked until eve is finally done dying its slow slow death.

Then you'll be happy to know that those incursion runners don't give two ***** about freighter ganking, and considering their purpose in this game, they'd laugh themselves to tears when you propose that they spend their time providing logistics to gank targets for free instead of pulling 150 million/hour from their normal activities.

Whether there are people willing to do this, that is indeed the question.

I never said that Incursion runners would be the ones to do it.
I am talking about that level of co-ordination.

Whether there are people willing to do this, that is indeed the question.

I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?

What high sec needs is Citizens On Patrol to deal with these gankers and killing the freighter they use to scoop the loot. Like what has already been said, stealing from a wreck flags the freighter making him a legal target to kill.

You know you can also roll fat freighters with a T3 boosting alt, which would raise EHP to such a significant degree that it might break most gank attempts, right?

Can anyone open EFT and compare frighter EHP, at full level 5 skills, with and without the following: 5% shield/armor/hull hardwirings, a fully-skilled, mindlinked Legion booster with the armor resist link and the shield resist link, and maybe a slave set? If no one does it, I'll do it by hand, but I'm a bit busy atm.

Faulting a freighter for carrying to much is like faulting someone who is carrying a briefcase full of money in an area with tons of police ready at any moment.

Cops should be able to insta pod a gankers head.

Providence - 194k
+ Legion and 5% hardwires - 243k
+ Slaves - 287k

Faulting a freighter for carrying to much is like faulting someone who is carrying a briefcase full of money in an area with tons of police ready at any moment.

Cops should be able to insta pod a gankers head.

Providence - 194k
+ Legion and 5% hardwires - 243k
+ Slaves - 287k

If you've taken all the precautions you can, and still get ganked, then you should congratulate the gankers on a job well done.

An escorted freighter has a vulnerability window of 10 seconds or less.

Webbing tip: Overheat. This gives webs 13 km range (more for faction of course). They will never burn-out as they are only active for one cycle.

I also noticed this is the third thread you have made about the same thing because the other 2 got locked.

I think the other 2 got locked because of comments on the thread from people other than the OP. Thats what ISD's do; lock threads that have too many naughty comments in them. Thats their JOB.

double-wrapping is your friend

- Avoid the systems where a lot of freighter ganks happen. Prevention is better than having to solve a problem.

- Gank them before they can gank you.

- A special mercenary taskforce that patrols the tradelanes and guards freighters (at a cost) could become reality when Retribution comes out, but can already work nicely now. (GCC = free-for-all)

- Get a squad of T1/T2 logistics ships that repair the freighter, extending the time required to gank it, which I hope for your sake is enough time for Concord to respond to the gankers.

- All of the above combined pretty much guarantee you won't lose your freighter. It's still possible, but if a ganker group sees a freighter being escorted by a blob of logistics and combat ships, ready to gank the gankers, they know they're in trouble.

- Alternatively: complain and whine on GD and FI forums. (most effective)

"Nullify"? As in, entirely?

Hisec hauling: Risk vs. Reward done right

1. Don't haul Plex's EVER. There is a simple game mechanic that allows you to move plexs with ZERO risk. If you are too lazy to research it than you deserve to lose them.

2. Crystal and Slave implants are your friend.

3. A fleet booster is also your friend.

4. Double wrapping helps, as will numerous little valueless items mixed in with visible cargo.

5. For small high value BPO's etc, a cloaky transport ship that aligns really fast will limit your vulnerability time to almost zero.

6. Forget that autopilot even exists! It will just get you killed.

Skip weekend hauling and peak hours also. I mean who wants to go to Jita on the weekend. Just the spam overload is enough to keep me away.

- They look for people with single accounts and no real option to multi box a web alt. My guess, the reason CCp are ignoring it.

Dat tinfoil

Dat narrow minded innocence.

- no skill or implant will help. If they catch you, it's all over.

Please tell me how a gank squad knows how many accounts any given pilot has.
Please tell me how CCP is "ignoring a problem" rather than saying "working as intended".

So doubling your EHP won't help when the way gankers work it to do almost exactly enough damage to kill you to minimize their losses?

HOW DID THEY STEAL THE DEATHRAY FROM CONCORD?!?!?!?!?!

@ Destiny, didn't sound like whining to me, sounded like he just wanted some helpful suggestions on how to deal with it. Sounds like you are the one whining that yet another individual has come to the forums for assistance and they must clearly be looking to CCP to change the system. Not because they just wanted realistic suggestions on what to do, eg take small support fleet etc

But thank you for your incredibly helpful reply which has obviously assisted GD with reaching its dailly quota of douchebag

At any rate, the OP is a thinly veiled attempt to have CCP change the system. Why you ask, well here's why:

1.The suggestions in this thread are well known, borderline common knowledge.
2. The OP isn't popping his forum cherry right now, he's seen all this before.
3. This is his third thread on the same topic, the other two have been locked, recently.
4. He was precise in his wording, he wants to "nullify" hi sec freighter ganking, not "mitigate", not "reduce", not "make less frequent or more difficult or more expensive", he simply wants to nullify freighter ganking. (see definition below before you try to further mince words)

(nullify [-ên-îl+¬-îfa+¬]
vb -fies, -fying, -fied (tr)
1. (Law) to render legally void or of no effect
2. to render ineffective or useless; cancel out)

5. In order to make ganking ineffective, useless, or cancel it out...in otherwords to nullify it, you WOULD in fact have to change gameplay mechanics, as currently ganking is "possible" by definition.

TL;DR Yes, yes the OP is in fact "looking to CCP to change the system"

Resistance is futile....

At least that's what the Gankers want you to think.

CCP know using autopilot isn't what it used to be. They do nothing.

Thank you for that. I was not aware that the OP was anything other than a noob who wanted some advice.

Firstly, I feel that almost (euphemism) every single thread started in GD with a view to getting help is utterly flamed, no matter the experience of the individual who started it. You all talk about EVE taking your cookie and laughing at you. Very well, but it would be nice if those asking for assistance were given some. Maybe let's take their cookie and pat them on the head for thinking they could have a cookie? That's all.

Secondly, yes, the OP needs to do some googling and research etc, but one would rather expect the EVE forums to be a good place to ask for ideas.

Thirdly, I rather read the OP's post as being 'how can I reduce the threat of being ganked' rather than 'nullify'. Men have a way of being overdramatic in their use of vocab. But then ASS-U-ME & etc. But thank you for the provision of a definition.

I am afraid that this thread and its responses rather saw the blunt end of my indignance as I am somewhat fed up of GD threads being the same old 'What if/How do I/What do I need to do if....' and 'STFU Carebear/Null-seccers suck/Hi-seccers suck/if you don't know what to do then you should BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN.'

Thirdly, I rather read the OP's post as being 'how can I reduce the threat of being ganked' rather than 'nullify'. Men have a way of being overdramatic in their use of vocab. But then ASS-U-ME & etc. But thank you for the provision of a definition.

I never said that Incursion runners would be the ones to do it.
I am talking about that level of co-ordination.

Whether there are people willing to do this, that is indeed the question.

I don't side with the gankers, nor do I side with fools who fly around with 50 plex's in cargo.

I'm a man, and consider your accusations to be mildly sexist. Beyond that, you suggested that you "interpreted" the OP to mean mitigate, as opposed to nullify. He bluntly uses the word nullify in the thread title. So, I am not "assuming" anything, simply pointing out "specifically" what he "said".

You know you can also roll fat freighters with a T3 boosting alt, which would raise EHP to such a significant degree that it might break most gank attempts, right?

Can anyone open EFT and compare frighter EHP, at full level 5 skills, with and without the following: 5% shield/armor/hull hardwirings, a fully-skilled, mindlinked Legion booster with the armor resist link and the shield resist link, and maybe a slave set? If no one does it, I'll do it by hand, but I'm a bit busy atm.

Faulting a freighter for carrying to much is like faulting someone who is carrying a briefcase full of money in an area with tons of police ready at any moment.

Cops should be able to insta pod a gankers head.

This sounds almost exactly like a recent discussion that took place over mining barges.

Do you think CCP will make the same assumption, that freighter pilots are too stupid to fly their ships without help?

3. Not cramming your freighter to the brim with PLEX/Officer mods in the first place

Has anyone realized that you don't actually need to use a freighter to haul plex?

I mean the key reason to stupidity here is that you can purchase and redeem plex on any character on any account.

I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?

I think the other 2 got locked because of comments on the thread from people other than the OP. Thats what ISD's do; lock threads that have too many naughty comments in them. Thats their JOB.

I have a visceral hatred of the sociopaths in this game.

I have been struggling with tactics to blow these asshats out of the sky

Most of these creeps are already insta-targets now in high sec

The rest of the carebears have already figured out the perfect tactic. They'll throw their lil tantrums on the forums, threaten to unsub and demand that the game is changed to suit their AFK, no-effort playstyle. Trying to game the system and beat the gankers is too much effort - they'd have to pause Netflix and alt tab into the game.

@ Destiny, didn't sound like whining to me, sounded like he just wanted some helpful suggestions on how to deal with it. Sounds like you are the one whining that yet another individual has come to the forums for assistance and they must clearly be looking to CCP to change the system. Not because they just wanted realistic suggestions on what to do, eg take small support fleet etc

But thank you for your incredibly helpful reply which has obviously assisted GD with reaching its dailly quota of douchebag

Actually one of them was locked because you're not allowed to reopen locked threads by recreating the OP, which is what OP has done here.

Add Uedama and Niarja to your avoidance list and make a route going anywhere. See the problem?

Put cans of junk in your cargo hold. The list becomes so long they don't read it.

I made a route from Villore to Dodixie and I don't see a problem.

~ One obvious tactic you might not have considered: Get somebody else to fly it with a Courier package. This is probably the best honestly, as you can put a high value on the cargo to protect against potential loss. If they lose it, it becomes their loss, rather than yours. Monetarily speaking anyway.

As a side note, perhaps red/blue/black frog should have a secondary spin-off business similar to agony unleashed or OUCH, think of it as pvp training for freighter pilots. It would teach basics like how to not be a complete dumbass and load freighters full of plex, perhaps in an advanced class they could cover how to not publicly admit on the forums that you got your freighter full of plex popped while attempting to solicit CCP for changes to game mechanics ultimately embarrasing yourself.

Where is the post where you explain that you aren't looking for tactics that involve scouting or tanking more, or flying with no value cargo, as has been suggested? I'm assuming that you already kn those exist and just chose not to mention them.

~ Freighters can't be fit, so that is a limitation on tactics. All that is left is having someone web you to align faster, as mentioned, and not carrying high value cargo.

~ One obvious tactic you might not have considered: Get somebody else to fly it with a Courier package. This is probably the best honestly, as you can put a high value on the cargo to protect against potential loss. If they lose it, it becomes their loss, rather than yours. Monetarily speaking anyway.

That basically ensures that they will do what they can to protect it, and they do make a business of that. Also, it is relatively inexpensive to contract a courier. This will always work in your favor, provided you don't absolutely have to have that cargo somewhere at a given time for some other purpose where ISK covering its loss is just not enough, and I doubt that's likely.

Think of Freighter ganking as an incentive to use Courier contracts; that is what it really boils down to. Also, it means you don't need, or have to train a Freighter Alt or fly one yourself. That's a pretty good bonus right there.

Probably because autopilot hasn't changed one bit.

And yet you feel the need to take things out of context. It's a pattern I see with the forums here. It's called spin by the way.

Is there anyone out there that still thinks that suicide ganking in high sec is NOT a cardinal sin that should be removed somehow simply because some of us don't like it?

To put it bluntly, stop acting like things like suicides/ganks/barge killing is such a mean and cowardly tactic that it shouldn't be allowed. Yes, it sucks to get popped in high sec and loose a freighter, but haven't we all had bad loses from one thing or another? There are already ways to avoid these things.

Sorry if I sound too "f-you" , had a long day and long days make me agitated to hell and back sometimes. Take it for what it's worth. Use a scout, avoid haulling too much stuff, don't follow the same route continuessly or move the same times of day, and above all else, just follow your gut instinct (cliched, I know, but you'ld be supprised how many times I've narrowly escaped ganks and suicides just because something didn't quite feel right at the time).

As someone who has a freighter pilot main, I think freighters need a slight buff, nothing serious though. However there are a million different ways to avoid being ganked, one of which is webbing which is the closest thing to invulnerable as it gets. Also, stop with the AFKing. Most of the kills are on AFK pilots who sit there letting people scan them for ages and letting corps get gank squads together. If you are ATK then you give gankers less time to think about if they want to choose YOU as the target. The last thing is the amount you haul. You can safely haul more than 1bil around the hotspots but when you get crazy and haul around 50+ plex you somewhat deserve it.

But to laugh at the general co-ordination of high sec players is like laughing at Incursion runner co-ordination, or wh squads doing PvE.

No, it's completely different. These are the same highsec players that outnumber us by at least 10 to 1, but complain about the CSM being almost entirely dominated by nullsec reps.

- They look for people with single accounts and no real option to multi box a web alt. My guess, the reason CCp are ignoring it.

I'd like to see you back that up.

What. People have already noted that popping an obvious web alt isn't such a big deal, especially when the people using it are likely to be ~profitably ganked~ (otherwise they'd just autopilot).

double-wrapping is your friend

Simple solution...just shoot someone in a starter ship at each gate. Concord will show up, pop the alt, and then sit there for a few hours. This will then make CONCORD's assistance time instant (while the ships linger at the location of the incident).

Last I checked, this was frowned upon by CCP, but hell, if you yell some meaningful comment in local before you shoot someone, you can possibally claim you were RP'ing (kinda like how certain people get away with harrassing other players) and therefore CONCORD showing up was just part of your emerision.

I have been struggling with tactics to neutralize freighter ganking in high sec but unfortunately, I can't envision any.
Most of the gankers are already insta-targets now in high sec, and no one has been able to mount a decent defense.
And I don't see any changes to that fact with the new game mechanics.
In fact, it will be worse.

Is there anyone out there that thinks they have tactics that will work in 2 weeks?

Simple solution...just shoot someone in a starter ship at each gate. Concord will show up, pop the alt, and then sit there for a few hours. This will then make CONCORD's assistance time instant (while the ships linger at the location of the incident).

Last I checked, this was frowned upon by CCP, but hell, if you yell some meaningful comment in local before you shoot someone, you can possibally claim you were RP'ing (kinda like how certain people get away with harrassing other players) and therefore CONCORD showing up was just part of your emerision.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15258262

No, it's completely different. These are the same highsec players that outnumber us by at least 10 to 1, but complain about the CSM being almost entirely dominated by nullsec reps.