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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2768
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:26:00 -
[181] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:DJ P0N-3 wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:On persisting the safety button setting: it's something we were hoping to get into this release but didn't quite have time. I can't give any kind of estimate on if/when it will happen right now because we're in the final stages of release prep and our team is focusing on Retribution launch rather than anything else. Once we've shipped and tidied up after ourselves, we'll look at what we're working on next Cool. As long as it's on the radar, that's good...and will probably lead to amusing stories in the interim. *prepares sticky note with DISABLE SAFETY WHEN PEWING IN LOWSEC for computer monitor* I disagree. This should not be released in this condition. I get the newbie protection, fine. I love some of the logoffski block changes. But this is just flat-out poor design and takes something that works fine now and breaks it. Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently. It would have been a perfectly valid design choice to simply leave it the way it will be. Making your guns hot (disabling the safety) is not an unreasonable step in any way, much less "broken".
That being said I am glad that eventually it will be a persistant state. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:27:00 -
[182] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently. I completely agree. I can see the safety causing some real problems with the low-sec crowd. Just one more thing to pay attention to when you log-in.
Can we maybe set the state before we undock? That would probably solve a lot of problems. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
158
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:31:00 -
[183] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:People should get themselves killed because they make, or are lured into making, stupid decisions... not because the aggression system is so obscure and full of loop holes your average player has difficulty making sense of it.
This, a thousand times.
And if they DIAF, it should be to superior tactics and smarter ship use, not to some corner case in the NPC AI. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1352
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:35:00 -
[184] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:On persisting the safety button setting: it's something we were hoping to get into this release but didn't quite have time. Dear god, how many times do we really have to put up with this crap? It's the same story every SINGLE time. "We really want to put this feature in but we don't have time to do it quite right so we're just going to half-ass it and then fix it later." This isn't the only Retribution feature you're adding that has this little mark on it. By the time you ask for player opinion on it it's already too late to make any changes and so we have to live with a shoddy product until you get around to fixing it. It's obvious that you're doing something very wrong when this happens. |
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.11.27 22:39:00 -
[185] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:On persisting the safety button setting: it's something we were hoping to get into this release but didn't quite have time. Dear god, how many times do we really have to put up with this crap?
Yeah, having to cut things due to deadlines is only such an Eve thing.
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1352
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:41:00 -
[186] - Quote
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:On persisting the safety button setting: it's something we were hoping to get into this release but didn't quite have time. Dear god, how many times do we really have to put up with this crap? Yeah, having to cut things due to deadlines is only such an Eve thing. A deadline is no excuse to deliver a half-finished product. I can see the lack of persistence becoming very irritating for highsec and lowsec pilots. Thankfully I'm not one of them, but this still reeks of Uni Inv all over again. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1468
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:46:00 -
[187] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:I get the newbie protection, fine. I love some of the logoffski block changes. But this is just flat-out poor design and takes something that works fine now and breaks it.
Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently. Exactly.
Why are we hand-holding people? Why are we nannying their forgetfulness? Someone sets it to red and forgets that it's red, the game is there to protect them from their own lack of foresight?
What the hell is wrong with Greyscale? Seriously. Persistence isn't an oversight ... most of the game has persistence built-in ... it's no-brainer design. He made a conscious decision to have it reset every login. Amarr Militia |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
759
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:50:00 -
[188] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:On persisting the safety button setting: it's something we were hoping to get into this release but didn't quite have time. Dear god, how many times do we really have to put up with this crap? Yeah, having to cut things due to deadlines is only such an Eve thing. A deadline is no excuse to deliver a half-finished product. I can see the lack of persistence becoming very irritating for highsec and lowsec pilots. Thankfully I'm not one of them, but this still reeks of Uni Inv all over again.
I see having to switch you're Safety Level everytime you log in as a MINOR annoyance.... This is not some gamebreaking thing (it would be if you had to do it every Session Change).
Most people will have a very specific state you put it in:
Green for the risk-adverse: Yellow for morally grey players. Red for Pirates. The only reason you set it to Red is so you can suicide gank people or shoot PODS in lowsec.
It's annoying to have to set it when you log in, but it's not some, OMG I can't handle this thing. It's easy to change, and all this bitching and whining over it is just ridiculous. Sure, let CCP know you want a user-definable default state... everyone does, and they know it... but quit acting like this is some dealbreaker issue that makes EvE unplayable... |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1353
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:54:00 -
[189] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I see having to switch you're Safety Level everytime you log in as a MINOR annoyance.... This is not some gamebreaking thing (it would be if you had to do it every Session Change).
Most people will have a very specific state you put it in:
Green for the risk-adverse: Yellow for morally grey players. Red for Pirates. The only reason you set it to Red is so you can suicide gank people or shoot PODS in lowsec.
It's annoying to have to set it when you log in, but it's not some, OMG I can't handle this thing. It's easy to change, and all this bitching and whining over it is just ridiculous. Sure, let CCP know you want a user-definable default state... everyone does, and they know it... but quit acting like this is some dealbreaker issue that makes EvE unplayable... I'm not, really. It's simply that this is kind of the last straw. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
159
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:56:00 -
[190] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Rhavas wrote:I get the newbie protection, fine. I love some of the logoffski block changes. But this is just flat-out poor design and takes something that works fine now and breaks it.
Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently. Exactly. Why are we hand-holding people? Why are we nannying their forgetfulness? Someone sets it to red and forgets that it's red, the game is there to protect them from their own lack of foresight? What the hell is wrong with Greyscale? Seriously. Persistence isn't an oversight ... most of the game has persistence built-in ... it's no-brainer design. He made a conscious decision to have it reset every login.
This conspiracy mongering is making it needlessly difficult to agree with what would otherwise be an entirely rational position, that CCP should have held off on the feature until they'd nailed persistence down, and rolled it out in a point release.
That said, I'm starting to wonder how many times a day some people log in. Yes, it's an additional Thing To Keep Track Of(TM), and annoying for that, but only until the patch lands. |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2768
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:59:00 -
[191] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Rhavas wrote:Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently. I completely agree. I can see the safety causing some real problems with the low-sec crowd. Just one more thing to pay attention to when you log-in. Can we maybe set the state before we undock? That would probably solve a lot of problems. I'm not sure I follow you on that one my friend. Worse case scenario for the Low Sec crowd is that they might miss out on a pod kill if they forget. A green safety will in no way stop them from firing on someones ship. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1468
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:01:00 -
[192] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Rhavas wrote:I get the newbie protection, fine. I love some of the logoffski block changes. But this is just flat-out poor design and takes something that works fine now and breaks it.
Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently. Exactly. Why are we hand-holding people? Why are we nannying their forgetfulness? Someone sets it to red and forgets that it's red, the game is there to protect them from their own lack of foresight? What the hell is wrong with Greyscale? Seriously. Persistence isn't an oversight ... most of the game has persistence built-in ... it's no-brainer design. He made a conscious decision to have it reset every login. This conspiracy mongering is making it needlessly difficult to agree with what would otherwise be an entirely rational position, that CCP should have held off on the feature until they'd nailed persistence down, and rolled it out in a point release. That said, I'm starting to wonder how many times a day some people log in. Yes, it's an additional Thing To Keep Track Of(TM), and annoying for that, but only until the patch lands. They've built more complex persistence into their UI in less time.
This was a conscious decision. Nothing has been built into this game without persistence (where it was applicable.) They avoided persistence here by design. It was purposeful.
Greyscale never expects the responses he gets to his design decisions. He's always been kind of clueless in this regard (see his panels at Fanfests for examples).
I've no doubt this could have made it into the Dec 4 release. But as an experiment, they'll want to see how this plays out for a few weeks. Because the first major point one release of Retribution won't come until January.
Amarr Militia |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:03:00 -
[193] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I'm not sure I follow you on that one my friend. Worse case scenario for the Low Sec crowd is that they might miss out on a pod kill if they forget. A green safety will in no way stop them from firing on someones ship. No, firing on a ship in low-sec still gains you a Suspect flag. You would need at least a Yellow light, if I'm reading this correct.
Just to expand on this for the FW folk: If you forget to at least go Yellow, you might end up trying to change your safety in the middle of a fight because it won't let you activate your modules.
In short, it's a very bad design decision. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
801
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:10:00 -
[194] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I'm not sure I follow you on that one my friend. Worse case scenario for the Low Sec crowd is that they might miss out on a pod kill if they forget. A green safety will in no way stop them from firing on someones ship. No, firing on a ship in low-sec still gains you a Suspect flag. You would need at least a Yellow light, if I'm reading this correct. Just to expand on this for the FW folks: If you forget to at least go Yellow, you might end up trying to change your safety in the middle of a fight because it won't let you activate your modules. In short, it's a very bad design decision.
Well, if you've been shot, you can return fire without changing them FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Mika Takahoshi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:16:00 -
[195] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Nothing has been built into this game without persistence (where it was applicable.) The extent that Poetic lives in a fantasy world* never ceases to amaze me...
(* or is at least willing to lie about reality when it gets in the way of a good argument) |
OutCast EG
Very Industrial Corp. Legion of xXDEATHXx
15
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Posted - 2012.11.27 23:19:00 -
[196] - Quote
make safety button hideable and persistent. dont spoil this awesome devblog. kthxbye. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
759
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:19:00 -
[197] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I see having to switch you're Safety Level everytime you log in as a MINOR annoyance.... This is not some gamebreaking thing (it would be if you had to do it every Session Change).
Most people will have a very specific state you put it in:
Green for the risk-adverse: Yellow for morally grey players. Red for Pirates. The only reason you set it to Red is so you can suicide gank people or shoot PODS in lowsec.
It's annoying to have to set it when you log in, but it's not some, OMG I can't handle this thing. It's easy to change, and all this bitching and whining over it is just ridiculous. Sure, let CCP know you want a user-definable default state... everyone does, and they know it... but quit acting like this is some dealbreaker issue that makes EvE unplayable... I'm not, really. It's simply that this is kind of the last straw.
Last straw??? I'm under the impression most of the upcoming changes with Retribution are pretty awesome. What are all these straws making up your discontent?
Bounty System? Ship Changes? Crimewatch Changes? Skill Changes? Improved NPC AI?
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1420
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:23:00 -
[198] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Rhavas wrote:I get the newbie protection, fine. I love some of the logoffski block changes. But this is just flat-out poor design and takes something that works fine now and breaks it.
Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently. Exactly. Why are we hand-holding people? Why are we nannying their forgetfulness? Someone sets it to red and forgets that it's red, the game is there to protect them from their own lack of foresight? What the hell is wrong with Greyscale? Seriously. Persistence isn't an oversight ... most of the game has persistence built-in ... it's no-brainer design. He made a conscious decision to have it reset every login. A checkbox with keepstate. That's all I want. This is going to be soooo annoying for the ninja community.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
370
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:26:00 -
[199] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:They've built more complex persistence into their UI in less time.
This was a conscious decision. Nothing has been built into this game without persistence (where it was applicable.) They avoided persistence here by design. It was purposeful.
Greyscale never expects the responses he gets to his design decisions. He's always been kind of clueless in this regard (see his panels at Fanfests for examples).
I've no doubt this could have made it into the Dec 4 release. But as an experiment, they'll want to see how this plays out for a few weeks. Because the first major x.1 release of Retribution won't come until January. So you are flat out saying Grayscale is lying? |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:27:00 -
[200] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Well, if you've been shot, you can return fire without changing them That's a good point, but when I'm out roaming I like to shoot first as much as possible and with targets (unwilling or not) as rare as they are in some places, well... maybe you can see what I'm getting at. |
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Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
555
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:31:00 -
[201] - Quote
While I don't think it is the end of the world, it will very annoying for me to turn off the safety every time I log on.
Please change so I can turn it off forever. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
64
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:41:00 -
[202] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:DJ P0N-3 wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:On persisting the safety button setting: it's something we were hoping to get into this release but didn't quite have time. I can't give any kind of estimate on if/when it will happen right now because we're in the final stages of release prep and our team is focusing on Retribution launch rather than anything else. Once we've shipped and tidied up after ourselves, we'll look at what we're working on next Cool. As long as it's on the radar, that's good...and will probably lead to amusing stories in the interim. *prepares sticky note with DISABLE SAFETY WHEN PEWING IN LOWSEC for computer monitor* I disagree. This should not be released in this condition. I get the newbie protection, fine. I love some of the logoffski block changes. But this is just flat-out poor design and takes something that works fine now and breaks it. Don't release this feature without the ability to set safety state permanently.
I'm saving my forum warrioring strength for beating this dead horse for the entire duration of Retribution. |
Rytell Tybat
Kallocain Pharmaceuticals
24
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:57:00 -
[203] - Quote
This persistent setting business is actually hilarious. Why on earth (or in New Eden) would you release this in this state? You can't even change it while you're in station, can you? Lol.
When you eventually do get around to doing this properly, please make sure that you can also change this setting while in station, or better yet from the... "SETTINGS" menu.
Hilarious. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1470
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:59:00 -
[204] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So you are flat out saying Grayscale is lying? I'm saying he's being disingenuous with the "we didn't have time" excuse.
Amarr Militia |
Bob FromMarketing
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 00:29:00 -
[205] - Quote
r
SO MUCH RAGE
I do not approve of el butan. Just so we're clear, my rage has focus |
Myxx
641
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 00:29:00 -
[206] - Quote
I am slowly becoming of the opinion that grayscale fucks whatever he touches up. I mean seriously, every time i jump i have to turn safteys off? Who the hell thought that that was a remotely good idea? |
Vana theHunter
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 00:35:00 -
[207] - Quote
Myxx wrote:I am slowly becoming of the opinion that grayscale fucks whatever he touches up. I mean seriously, every time i jump i have to turn safetys off? Who the hell thought that that was a remotely good idea? It isn't, mind you, its annoying and going to be a great way to **** players off in general. The entire idea of a safety for weapons in a game like EVE is a boneheaded concept, in my opinion.
Safeties are persistent through the time you are logged in. They do not reset every time you jump, dock or change ships. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1471
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 00:38:00 -
[208] - Quote
Nevermind. Clarified by Vana. Amarr Militia |
Ramius Decimus
Dark Circle Enforcement Templis Dragonaors
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 00:39:00 -
[209] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
....
CCP Greyscale is here to tell you all about a new feature coming with EVE Online: Retribution which will make it less likely that you'll feel the wrath of the Space Police for an accidental misclick...
I can't shake the impression that they got this idea from Google's "Safe Search" setting options. To be honest, I don't like it. Removes the need to practice care and take responsibility for negligent actions. Do people really "accidentally" target capsuleer/CONCORD ships and "misclick" a weapons module in high sec? Seems rediculous to me that this game mechanic is even being pondered let alone being developed for implementation. If at all, this should be a completely optional feature where if you choose to not use it, you never have to see it.
As for the log off countdown, I think it's redundant and exaggerate. I do understand the problem of people logging off while in peril or to evade in deadspace but I thought it had already been changed to deny exploitation. Why not just make another revision to the current "logging off while in space" stipulations? And what happens when someone gets disconnected while in space with the new system? Caldari State citizen and proud!-á -áGenome; Clone, Fifth+. Original body destroyed YC 110. "We capsuleers are just.... echoes of our original selves." - Falek Grange |
Bob FromMarketing
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 00:43:00 -
[210] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Nevermind. Clarified by Vana. Hi Poe. |
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