I agree with the latter part (the lines almost certainly will conflict), but I'm not sure about the former. I will need to bust out Photoshop or Paint.NET and overlay the two images with some layering adjustments to get pixel precision and see for myself. I'll post the results when I have them (I know how to do it, it's just an issue of time).

On persisting the safety button setting: it's something we were hoping to get into this release but didn't quite have time. I can't give any kind of estimate on if/when it will happen right now because we're in the final stages of release prep and our team is focusing on Retribution launch rather than anything else. Once we've shipped and tidied up after ourselves, we'll look at what we're working on next

and you didn't have time to save 1 frekking boolean value and make safety switch persistent? Wow, just wow...

Too many posts, struggling to find the answer to my quick questions

Scenario 1;

Im a high sec mission runner, im undocking and warping to the site to shoot NPCs. Do i need to set my safety to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at the mission NPCs (as this generates a suspect flag)

Scenario 2;

Im a high sec incursion runner, im in a site. As they are concord sanctioned hostiles do i need to have my safety set to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at Sansha.

As a general rule im very happy with this change, i was a victim of the typical can baiting as a new player when i first started, however as the new players will be killing NPC rats they will likely have their safeties set to yellow at least. This will not prevent them opening a can baiters can as this only generates a suspect flag (from memory)

Can i anyone say 100% the answers to the above

Too many posts, struggling to find the answer to my quick questions

Scenario 1;

Im a high sec mission runner, im undocking and warping to the site to shoot NPCs. Do i need to set my safety to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at the mission NPCs (as this generates a suspect flag)

Scenario 2;

Im a high sec incursion runner, im in a site. As they are concord sanctioned hostiles do i need to have my safety set to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at Sansha.

As a general rule im very happy with this change, i was a victim of the typical can baiting as a new player when i first started, however as the new players will be killing NPC rats they will likely have their safeties set to yellow at least. This will not prevent them opening a can baiters can as this only generates a suspect flag (from memory)

Can i anyone say 100% the answers to the above

I have some questions about safe logoff:

* It can be interrupted, so if somebody has no timers is it not safer to NOT to use safe logoff? (Once you have logged off by closing the client, nobody can give you an aggression timer and you vanish in 1 minute nomatter what).

* Isn't closing the client safer because you can do it after jumping without decloaking, or in the middle of warp?

* Can you do this inside a bubble? Does the bubble aggress you?

* Can this be done during the 30 seconds invulnerability timer gained after jumping, or undocking?

* Does TiDi increase the timer length?

* You vanish without E-Warping, do you E-Warp when you log back in?

* If you do E-Warp back in, are you still aggressable while in the E-Warp spot but before entering warp?

* Will the existing logoff mechanics remain permanently, or is this a move towards replacing them?

If anybody knows of official answers to these I'd love to see them :)

Too many posts, struggling to find the answer to my quick questions

Scenario 1;

Im a high sec mission runner, im undocking and warping to the site to shoot NPCs. Do i need to set my safety to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at the mission NPCs (as this generates a suspect flag)

Scenario 2;

Im a high sec incursion runner, im in a site. As they are concord sanctioned hostiles do i need to have my safety set to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at Sansha.

As a general rule im very happy with this change, i was a victim of the typical can baiting as a new player when i first started, however as the new players will be killing NPC rats they will likely have their safeties set to yellow at least. This will not prevent them opening a can baiters can as this only generates a suspect flag (from memory)

Can i anyone say 100% the answers to the above

Yes they do:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_timers_screenshot.png
From left-to-right: PVP flag, Suspect flag, Weapons flag

The NPC flag is like the PVP flag, but yellow. The Criminal flag is like Suspect flag, but red.

Looks like both can-flipping and killing mission runners that get annoyed with ninja salvaging will now be finally, irreversibly dead.

Looks like both can-flipping and killing mission runners that get annoyed with ninja salvaging will now be finally, irreversibly dead.

1) Safe logoff will get your ship removed from space in 30s compared to 60s+ for normal logoff, plus you get to see it happen rather than wondering if someone found you at the last minute. Also note that now you can still pick up a PVP flag AFTER logging off (but before the ship is removed), and so be held in space indefinitely.
2) In the jump case, you'll lose your gate cloak when you disconnect and begin to ewarp. In the second case, the timers won't start until you warp ends, so you'll still be in space and vulnerable for longer.
3) Yes. No
4) Can't activate safe logoff whilst under any kind of cloak. The station case, I'll need to check
5) Yes, safe logoff timer (as with regular logoff and combat timers) will get dilated in line with everything else
6) Yes, ship always perorms an ewarp when logging in, regardless of how you logged off. (Unless you are logging back in immediately after logging off and your ship is still in space from your previous session)
7) Yes. You can be attacked and tackled at the login ewarp spot as normal.
8) The existing 'unsafe' logoff behaviour is not expected to change, and will remain as the default behaviour. Ewarps will continue to happen in this case (unless tackled)

Too many posts, struggling to find the answer to my quick questions

Scenario 1;

Im a high sec mission runner, im undocking and warping to the site to shoot NPCs. Do i need to set my safety to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at the mission NPCs (as this generates a suspect flag)

Scenario 2;

Im a high sec incursion runner, im in a site. As they are concord sanctioned hostiles do i need to have my safety set to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at Sansha.

As a general rule im very happy with this change, i was a victim of the typical can baiting as a new player when i first started, however as the new players will be killing NPC rats they will likely have their safeties set to yellow at least. This will not prevent them opening a can baiters can as this only generates a suspect flag (from memory)

Can i anyone say 100% the answers to the above

1) Safe logoff will get your ship removed from space in 30s compared to 60s+ for normal logoff, plus you get to see it happen rather than wondering if someone found you at the last minute. Also note that now you can still pick up a PVP flag AFTER logging off (but before the ship is removed), and so be held in space indefinitely.

There's one good and one horrendous thing in there.

Picking up PvP flag after logging off is great. This has been needed for a long time. However:

30sec is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too short log off time. Have you ever combat probed people? I have. Alot. I have multiple dedicated combat probers in cov ops (cov ops 5 and all astrometric 5 skills) plus t3 pilots (all t3 subsystem 5 and probing 5). Usually what happens when someone logs off is this - it takes 10sec+ to launch your preferably 5+ (I use 7) probes. You want to know his location already so you can get a 2au probe or less there, even with great skills. Depending on size ofc, but I'm assuming a regular Tengu or similar ratter.

If you're quite fast, you might take say a second per probe to position, + let's pretend they are already 2au from your last probe so you don't even have to resize them. That's another 7sec on top of your 10+. Now, pretend you get an instant hit because of your :awsomeness: so you can immediately warp to him. You have a fast ship that goes into warp in say 3 sec, to make a round fine number to add to the 17 you had. So you have spent 20 sec of his 30 to - go through warp, land, start tackle, aggress. You cannot do that in 10 seconds, that is literally impossible.

You have to make the log off timer 60sec, it's already fairly close for bigger systems, 60sec only really works if he's dumb enough to let you dscan him down and is slow at logging off. Even with the 2mins timers from PvE activity, I've still had plenty of Tengus ewarping off in low shields because I simply can't get my probes there fast enough. Even with max skills, good dscans kills and alot of experience from doing this.

Something to note. If the ratter engaged an NPC, they have to run down their NPC timer before they can log off. Not just the 30 seconds.

Damn horrible change.

EVE always rewarded those who understand mechanics, now you reward people who slack and don't know what they do. You even put a giant big icon in their face to tell them what is happening. Horrible, horrible change, absolutely horrendous, this is the kind of stuff that would never have happened the first few years of this game.

You're going in the right direction when it comes to game balance (ship, ewar etc), even tho you still do some mistakes there (HML etc); but the game in general is really going towards a happy fluffly la-la land a'la Hello Kitty's Online Adventure. Good riddance, have fun getting your customer service flooded with people who want their ship back after being killed :anywhere:. This is the kind of people you attract, and that is disregarding all the kills that used to happen that won't.

Several of my latest kills have been people I probed down after they logged off, you probably deprived me personally off a good source of kills. Because I bothered to learn game mechanics, and they didn't. And yet you reward them. Not sure how you think this is a good way to "progress", but yay to the brainiac who figured this out. Probably that lazy guy who likes to live off others. There's always someone.